Why does this proof for quotient rule of limits not work?
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By doubt is, if we prove the product rule of limits,can't we directly prove the quotient rule ? But wherever I look on the internet, they give another $epsilon-delta$ proof for the quotient rule, why is that required ?
My proof of the quotient rule :
$lim_xto afracf(x)g(x)$ = $lim_xto af(x)$$lim_xto afrac1g(x)$ . (Accepting the product rule)
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto afrac1g(x)$$lim_xto ag(x)$ Multiplying and dividing by $lim_xto ag(x)$
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto a[frac1g(x)g(x) ]$ (Accepting the product rule)
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto a1$
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)(1)$ (Accepting $lim_xto ac$ = c )
And hence the result. Am I missing something here, maybe this is circular reasoning? Why does this not work ?
calculus limits
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
By doubt is, if we prove the product rule of limits,can't we directly prove the quotient rule ? But wherever I look on the internet, they give another $epsilon-delta$ proof for the quotient rule, why is that required ?
My proof of the quotient rule :
$lim_xto afracf(x)g(x)$ = $lim_xto af(x)$$lim_xto afrac1g(x)$ . (Accepting the product rule)
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto afrac1g(x)$$lim_xto ag(x)$ Multiplying and dividing by $lim_xto ag(x)$
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto a[frac1g(x)g(x) ]$ (Accepting the product rule)
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto a1$
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)(1)$ (Accepting $lim_xto ac$ = c )
And hence the result. Am I missing something here, maybe this is circular reasoning? Why does this not work ?
calculus limits
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
By doubt is, if we prove the product rule of limits,can't we directly prove the quotient rule ? But wherever I look on the internet, they give another $epsilon-delta$ proof for the quotient rule, why is that required ?
My proof of the quotient rule :
$lim_xto afracf(x)g(x)$ = $lim_xto af(x)$$lim_xto afrac1g(x)$ . (Accepting the product rule)
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto afrac1g(x)$$lim_xto ag(x)$ Multiplying and dividing by $lim_xto ag(x)$
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto a[frac1g(x)g(x) ]$ (Accepting the product rule)
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto a1$
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)(1)$ (Accepting $lim_xto ac$ = c )
And hence the result. Am I missing something here, maybe this is circular reasoning? Why does this not work ?
calculus limits
By doubt is, if we prove the product rule of limits,can't we directly prove the quotient rule ? But wherever I look on the internet, they give another $epsilon-delta$ proof for the quotient rule, why is that required ?
My proof of the quotient rule :
$lim_xto afracf(x)g(x)$ = $lim_xto af(x)$$lim_xto afrac1g(x)$ . (Accepting the product rule)
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto afrac1g(x)$$lim_xto ag(x)$ Multiplying and dividing by $lim_xto ag(x)$
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto a[frac1g(x)g(x) ]$ (Accepting the product rule)
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)$ $lim_xto a1$
= $fraclim_xto af(x)lim_xto ag(x)(1)$ (Accepting $lim_xto ac$ = c )
And hence the result. Am I missing something here, maybe this is circular reasoning? Why does this not work ?
calculus limits
calculus limits
edited Sep 2 at 10:39
asked Sep 2 at 10:37
Steve
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You are only given that
$$ lim_xto a g(x) = B not=0. $$
Without the quotient rule, you don't even know whether
$$ lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$
exists (or that it is equal to $1/B$), so that the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
However, if you prove the statement above, then you can use the product rule to prove the general quotient rule
$$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = fracAB, $$
as you proposed.
EDIT: Just to be fully clear, here are the statements of the product rule and the quotient rule.
Suppose that $$lim_xto a f(x) = A, quad textand quad lim_xto a g(x) = B.$$
Then
$$ lim_xto a f(x) cdot g(x) = Acdot B. $$
If we also have
$$ lim_xto a g(x) = B not= 0, $$
then
$$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = fracAB. $$
Notice that it is nowhere assumed that
$$ lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$
exists. This needs to be proven (which basically amounts to proving the quotient rule).
If you look closely, I never used $lim_xto afrac1g(x) = frac1lim_xto ag(x) $, directly or indirectly. I only used the product rule througout the proof and the fact that $frac1g(x)$ is also a function. I only multiplied- divided by $lim_xto ag(x) $
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:46
Yes, but in your first step you claim that $$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = lim_xto a f(x) ; lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$ by the product rule, which is not necessarily true (given the assumptions and if you only accept the product rule). The product rule requires you to know that the limits of both factors exist. However, as I already stated in my answer, without the quotient rule (or some other means) you cannot know that $lim_xto a frac1g(x)$ exists, so the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:51
But isn't it assumed that the limits exist ? Like while proving the product rule you assume that the individual limits existed, so why not here ? (Also limit of g(x) is non zero. I should have given that). Where's the flaw in the logic ?
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:55
@Steve Again, you only assume that $ lim g(x) $ exists. At this point you do not yet know whether this implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well (this implication is proven true using the chain rule).
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:57
@Steve That being said, you could of course assume that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists, but this is a superfluous condition, since the fact that $lim g(x)$ exists implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well, but you basically need to prove the quotient rule prove this implication.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 11:00
 |Â
show 5 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
You are only given that
$$ lim_xto a g(x) = B not=0. $$
Without the quotient rule, you don't even know whether
$$ lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$
exists (or that it is equal to $1/B$), so that the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
However, if you prove the statement above, then you can use the product rule to prove the general quotient rule
$$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = fracAB, $$
as you proposed.
EDIT: Just to be fully clear, here are the statements of the product rule and the quotient rule.
Suppose that $$lim_xto a f(x) = A, quad textand quad lim_xto a g(x) = B.$$
Then
$$ lim_xto a f(x) cdot g(x) = Acdot B. $$
If we also have
$$ lim_xto a g(x) = B not= 0, $$
then
$$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = fracAB. $$
Notice that it is nowhere assumed that
$$ lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$
exists. This needs to be proven (which basically amounts to proving the quotient rule).
If you look closely, I never used $lim_xto afrac1g(x) = frac1lim_xto ag(x) $, directly or indirectly. I only used the product rule througout the proof and the fact that $frac1g(x)$ is also a function. I only multiplied- divided by $lim_xto ag(x) $
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:46
Yes, but in your first step you claim that $$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = lim_xto a f(x) ; lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$ by the product rule, which is not necessarily true (given the assumptions and if you only accept the product rule). The product rule requires you to know that the limits of both factors exist. However, as I already stated in my answer, without the quotient rule (or some other means) you cannot know that $lim_xto a frac1g(x)$ exists, so the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:51
But isn't it assumed that the limits exist ? Like while proving the product rule you assume that the individual limits existed, so why not here ? (Also limit of g(x) is non zero. I should have given that). Where's the flaw in the logic ?
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:55
@Steve Again, you only assume that $ lim g(x) $ exists. At this point you do not yet know whether this implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well (this implication is proven true using the chain rule).
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:57
@Steve That being said, you could of course assume that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists, but this is a superfluous condition, since the fact that $lim g(x)$ exists implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well, but you basically need to prove the quotient rule prove this implication.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 11:00
 |Â
show 5 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
You are only given that
$$ lim_xto a g(x) = B not=0. $$
Without the quotient rule, you don't even know whether
$$ lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$
exists (or that it is equal to $1/B$), so that the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
However, if you prove the statement above, then you can use the product rule to prove the general quotient rule
$$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = fracAB, $$
as you proposed.
EDIT: Just to be fully clear, here are the statements of the product rule and the quotient rule.
Suppose that $$lim_xto a f(x) = A, quad textand quad lim_xto a g(x) = B.$$
Then
$$ lim_xto a f(x) cdot g(x) = Acdot B. $$
If we also have
$$ lim_xto a g(x) = B not= 0, $$
then
$$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = fracAB. $$
Notice that it is nowhere assumed that
$$ lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$
exists. This needs to be proven (which basically amounts to proving the quotient rule).
If you look closely, I never used $lim_xto afrac1g(x) = frac1lim_xto ag(x) $, directly or indirectly. I only used the product rule througout the proof and the fact that $frac1g(x)$ is also a function. I only multiplied- divided by $lim_xto ag(x) $
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:46
Yes, but in your first step you claim that $$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = lim_xto a f(x) ; lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$ by the product rule, which is not necessarily true (given the assumptions and if you only accept the product rule). The product rule requires you to know that the limits of both factors exist. However, as I already stated in my answer, without the quotient rule (or some other means) you cannot know that $lim_xto a frac1g(x)$ exists, so the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:51
But isn't it assumed that the limits exist ? Like while proving the product rule you assume that the individual limits existed, so why not here ? (Also limit of g(x) is non zero. I should have given that). Where's the flaw in the logic ?
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:55
@Steve Again, you only assume that $ lim g(x) $ exists. At this point you do not yet know whether this implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well (this implication is proven true using the chain rule).
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:57
@Steve That being said, you could of course assume that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists, but this is a superfluous condition, since the fact that $lim g(x)$ exists implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well, but you basically need to prove the quotient rule prove this implication.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 11:00
 |Â
show 5 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
You are only given that
$$ lim_xto a g(x) = B not=0. $$
Without the quotient rule, you don't even know whether
$$ lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$
exists (or that it is equal to $1/B$), so that the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
However, if you prove the statement above, then you can use the product rule to prove the general quotient rule
$$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = fracAB, $$
as you proposed.
EDIT: Just to be fully clear, here are the statements of the product rule and the quotient rule.
Suppose that $$lim_xto a f(x) = A, quad textand quad lim_xto a g(x) = B.$$
Then
$$ lim_xto a f(x) cdot g(x) = Acdot B. $$
If we also have
$$ lim_xto a g(x) = B not= 0, $$
then
$$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = fracAB. $$
Notice that it is nowhere assumed that
$$ lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$
exists. This needs to be proven (which basically amounts to proving the quotient rule).
You are only given that
$$ lim_xto a g(x) = B not=0. $$
Without the quotient rule, you don't even know whether
$$ lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$
exists (or that it is equal to $1/B$), so that the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
However, if you prove the statement above, then you can use the product rule to prove the general quotient rule
$$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = fracAB, $$
as you proposed.
EDIT: Just to be fully clear, here are the statements of the product rule and the quotient rule.
Suppose that $$lim_xto a f(x) = A, quad textand quad lim_xto a g(x) = B.$$
Then
$$ lim_xto a f(x) cdot g(x) = Acdot B. $$
If we also have
$$ lim_xto a g(x) = B not= 0, $$
then
$$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = fracAB. $$
Notice that it is nowhere assumed that
$$ lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$
exists. This needs to be proven (which basically amounts to proving the quotient rule).
edited Sep 2 at 11:05
answered Sep 2 at 10:39
Sobi
2,843417
2,843417
If you look closely, I never used $lim_xto afrac1g(x) = frac1lim_xto ag(x) $, directly or indirectly. I only used the product rule througout the proof and the fact that $frac1g(x)$ is also a function. I only multiplied- divided by $lim_xto ag(x) $
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:46
Yes, but in your first step you claim that $$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = lim_xto a f(x) ; lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$ by the product rule, which is not necessarily true (given the assumptions and if you only accept the product rule). The product rule requires you to know that the limits of both factors exist. However, as I already stated in my answer, without the quotient rule (or some other means) you cannot know that $lim_xto a frac1g(x)$ exists, so the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:51
But isn't it assumed that the limits exist ? Like while proving the product rule you assume that the individual limits existed, so why not here ? (Also limit of g(x) is non zero. I should have given that). Where's the flaw in the logic ?
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:55
@Steve Again, you only assume that $ lim g(x) $ exists. At this point you do not yet know whether this implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well (this implication is proven true using the chain rule).
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:57
@Steve That being said, you could of course assume that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists, but this is a superfluous condition, since the fact that $lim g(x)$ exists implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well, but you basically need to prove the quotient rule prove this implication.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 11:00
 |Â
show 5 more comments
If you look closely, I never used $lim_xto afrac1g(x) = frac1lim_xto ag(x) $, directly or indirectly. I only used the product rule througout the proof and the fact that $frac1g(x)$ is also a function. I only multiplied- divided by $lim_xto ag(x) $
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:46
Yes, but in your first step you claim that $$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = lim_xto a f(x) ; lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$ by the product rule, which is not necessarily true (given the assumptions and if you only accept the product rule). The product rule requires you to know that the limits of both factors exist. However, as I already stated in my answer, without the quotient rule (or some other means) you cannot know that $lim_xto a frac1g(x)$ exists, so the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:51
But isn't it assumed that the limits exist ? Like while proving the product rule you assume that the individual limits existed, so why not here ? (Also limit of g(x) is non zero. I should have given that). Where's the flaw in the logic ?
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:55
@Steve Again, you only assume that $ lim g(x) $ exists. At this point you do not yet know whether this implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well (this implication is proven true using the chain rule).
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:57
@Steve That being said, you could of course assume that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists, but this is a superfluous condition, since the fact that $lim g(x)$ exists implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well, but you basically need to prove the quotient rule prove this implication.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 11:00
If you look closely, I never used $lim_xto afrac1g(x) = frac1lim_xto ag(x) $, directly or indirectly. I only used the product rule througout the proof and the fact that $frac1g(x)$ is also a function. I only multiplied- divided by $lim_xto ag(x) $
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:46
If you look closely, I never used $lim_xto afrac1g(x) = frac1lim_xto ag(x) $, directly or indirectly. I only used the product rule througout the proof and the fact that $frac1g(x)$ is also a function. I only multiplied- divided by $lim_xto ag(x) $
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:46
Yes, but in your first step you claim that $$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = lim_xto a f(x) ; lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$ by the product rule, which is not necessarily true (given the assumptions and if you only accept the product rule). The product rule requires you to know that the limits of both factors exist. However, as I already stated in my answer, without the quotient rule (or some other means) you cannot know that $lim_xto a frac1g(x)$ exists, so the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:51
Yes, but in your first step you claim that $$ lim_xto a fracf(x)g(x) = lim_xto a f(x) ; lim_xto a frac1g(x) $$ by the product rule, which is not necessarily true (given the assumptions and if you only accept the product rule). The product rule requires you to know that the limits of both factors exist. However, as I already stated in my answer, without the quotient rule (or some other means) you cannot know that $lim_xto a frac1g(x)$ exists, so the use of the product rule in your first step is unjustified.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:51
But isn't it assumed that the limits exist ? Like while proving the product rule you assume that the individual limits existed, so why not here ? (Also limit of g(x) is non zero. I should have given that). Where's the flaw in the logic ?
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:55
But isn't it assumed that the limits exist ? Like while proving the product rule you assume that the individual limits existed, so why not here ? (Also limit of g(x) is non zero. I should have given that). Where's the flaw in the logic ?
â Steve
Sep 2 at 10:55
@Steve Again, you only assume that $ lim g(x) $ exists. At this point you do not yet know whether this implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well (this implication is proven true using the chain rule).
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:57
@Steve Again, you only assume that $ lim g(x) $ exists. At this point you do not yet know whether this implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well (this implication is proven true using the chain rule).
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 10:57
@Steve That being said, you could of course assume that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists, but this is a superfluous condition, since the fact that $lim g(x)$ exists implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well, but you basically need to prove the quotient rule prove this implication.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 11:00
@Steve That being said, you could of course assume that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists, but this is a superfluous condition, since the fact that $lim g(x)$ exists implies that $lim 1/g(x)$ exists as well, but you basically need to prove the quotient rule prove this implication.
â Sobi
Sep 2 at 11:00
 |Â
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