Problems About Logic: Alice, Bob, and Charlie, who is the one that telling lie?
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1
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I have problem to solve,
Three people have their own statement:
Alice : If Bob tells lie, then Charlie tells lie too
Bob : If Charlie tells lie, then Alice tells lie too
Charlie : If Alice tells lie, then Bob tells lie too,
Who is the lier?
I tried to figure it out by assuming three condition: Alice is telling truth, Bob is telling truth, and Charlie is telling truth, and i used truth table too and assume for false-truth combination, but i still cant solve this problem or find who is the lier. So, who is the lier?
puzzle
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I have problem to solve,
Three people have their own statement:
Alice : If Bob tells lie, then Charlie tells lie too
Bob : If Charlie tells lie, then Alice tells lie too
Charlie : If Alice tells lie, then Bob tells lie too,
Who is the lier?
I tried to figure it out by assuming three condition: Alice is telling truth, Bob is telling truth, and Charlie is telling truth, and i used truth table too and assume for false-truth combination, but i still cant solve this problem or find who is the lier. So, who is the lier?
puzzle
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I have problem to solve,
Three people have their own statement:
Alice : If Bob tells lie, then Charlie tells lie too
Bob : If Charlie tells lie, then Alice tells lie too
Charlie : If Alice tells lie, then Bob tells lie too,
Who is the lier?
I tried to figure it out by assuming three condition: Alice is telling truth, Bob is telling truth, and Charlie is telling truth, and i used truth table too and assume for false-truth combination, but i still cant solve this problem or find who is the lier. So, who is the lier?
puzzle
I have problem to solve,
Three people have their own statement:
Alice : If Bob tells lie, then Charlie tells lie too
Bob : If Charlie tells lie, then Alice tells lie too
Charlie : If Alice tells lie, then Bob tells lie too,
Who is the lier?
I tried to figure it out by assuming three condition: Alice is telling truth, Bob is telling truth, and Charlie is telling truth, and i used truth table too and assume for false-truth combination, but i still cant solve this problem or find who is the lier. So, who is the lier?
puzzle
puzzle
edited Sep 2 at 11:02
Gerry Myerson
144k8145295
144k8145295
asked Sep 2 at 9:46
Dziban N
83
83
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4 Answers
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accepted
Hint: You can write the three sentences as
$$Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C)$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A)$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B)$$
and all of them need to be true, thus you need to find interpretation such that
$$(Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C))wedge(Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A))wedge(Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B))$$ is true.
Hint 2: If you apply cyclic permutation to one of the three sentences, you will get the other ones. That means that interpretation under which all are true must also be invariant under cyclic permutations. There are only two such interpretations.
Edit:
Since J.G. decided to give a full solution, I might do it as well. Let me just say that Hint 2 (in the form that I've written) works only if we know that the solution to the problem is unique, otherwise the argument doesn't go through.
Let $a,b,csubseteq 0,1$ be an interpretation. Note that at least two of $a,b,c$ need to be equal. Since the sentences in the first Hint are cyclic permutations of each other, WLOG, $b = c$. That means that $neg Brightarrow neg C$ is necessarily true and so is $A$, i.e. $a = 1$. Thus, either $(a,b,c) = (1,0,0)$ or $(a,b,c)=(1,1,1)$. You can easily check that the third sentence is false under interpretation $(1,0,0)$. Thus, no one is lying.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
No-one is lying.
Let $A$ denote Alice's statement etc. so $A$ is equivalent to $neg Bimpliesneg C$ or, more neatly, $Cto B$. Representing claims as their truth values ($1$ for true, $0$ for false), we can instead write $A$ as $Bge C$.
Everyone telling the truth works, viz. $A=B=C=1$.
But everyone lying doesn't, because $A=B=C=0implies Bge Cimplies A=1$.
Nor can exactly two people be telling the truth, since by cyclic permutation we can assume Alice would be one of them, and then the remaining truth-teller would have to be Bob, so $Cge A$, making Charlie a truth-teller too.
But in fact, a single truth-teller isn't possible either; again cyclic permutation can make it Alice, so Charlie is lying and $B>A$, which contradicts Alice being a truth-teller.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
As in my previous answer, we need to find interpretation such that
$$Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C)tag$a$$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A)tag$b$$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B)tag$c$$$
are all true.
Note that $Prightarrow Q$ is equivalent to $neg Qrightarrowneg P$, so the above sentences are equivalent to
$$Aleftrightarrow (Crightarrow B)tag$a'$$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (Arightarrow C)tag$b'$$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (Brightarrow A)tag$c'$$$
Now, $Prightarrow (Qrightarrow P)$ is tautology, i.e. equivalent to $1$.
Finally,
$$(a')wedge (b') implies Aleftrightarrow (Crightarrow (Arightarrow C)) implies A leftrightarrow 1$$
$$(b')wedge (c') implies Bleftrightarrow (Arightarrow (Brightarrow A)) implies B leftrightarrow 1$$
$$(c')wedge (a') implies Cleftrightarrow (Brightarrow (Crightarrow B)) implies C leftrightarrow 1$$
and thus, everybody tells the truth.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
As an alternative and much quicker solution to the ones already given, consider that all statements are cyclic and so no particular person can be the only one lying/telling the truth. Either everyone lies or everyone tells the truth. Clearly it can't be the case that everyone lies, so everyone tells the truth.
This is the quickest way, but only works if we know that solution is unique. For example, $(1,0,0),(0,1,0),(0,0,1)$ could all be solutions and the cyclic symmetry is satisfied.
â Ennar
Sep 4 at 13:13
Sure, but that clearly isn't true in this case. Though I agree with you that in more complicated problems that could be a concern.
â user496634
Sep 4 at 23:43
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
Hint: You can write the three sentences as
$$Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C)$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A)$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B)$$
and all of them need to be true, thus you need to find interpretation such that
$$(Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C))wedge(Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A))wedge(Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B))$$ is true.
Hint 2: If you apply cyclic permutation to one of the three sentences, you will get the other ones. That means that interpretation under which all are true must also be invariant under cyclic permutations. There are only two such interpretations.
Edit:
Since J.G. decided to give a full solution, I might do it as well. Let me just say that Hint 2 (in the form that I've written) works only if we know that the solution to the problem is unique, otherwise the argument doesn't go through.
Let $a,b,csubseteq 0,1$ be an interpretation. Note that at least two of $a,b,c$ need to be equal. Since the sentences in the first Hint are cyclic permutations of each other, WLOG, $b = c$. That means that $neg Brightarrow neg C$ is necessarily true and so is $A$, i.e. $a = 1$. Thus, either $(a,b,c) = (1,0,0)$ or $(a,b,c)=(1,1,1)$. You can easily check that the third sentence is false under interpretation $(1,0,0)$. Thus, no one is lying.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
Hint: You can write the three sentences as
$$Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C)$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A)$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B)$$
and all of them need to be true, thus you need to find interpretation such that
$$(Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C))wedge(Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A))wedge(Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B))$$ is true.
Hint 2: If you apply cyclic permutation to one of the three sentences, you will get the other ones. That means that interpretation under which all are true must also be invariant under cyclic permutations. There are only two such interpretations.
Edit:
Since J.G. decided to give a full solution, I might do it as well. Let me just say that Hint 2 (in the form that I've written) works only if we know that the solution to the problem is unique, otherwise the argument doesn't go through.
Let $a,b,csubseteq 0,1$ be an interpretation. Note that at least two of $a,b,c$ need to be equal. Since the sentences in the first Hint are cyclic permutations of each other, WLOG, $b = c$. That means that $neg Brightarrow neg C$ is necessarily true and so is $A$, i.e. $a = 1$. Thus, either $(a,b,c) = (1,0,0)$ or $(a,b,c)=(1,1,1)$. You can easily check that the third sentence is false under interpretation $(1,0,0)$. Thus, no one is lying.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
Hint: You can write the three sentences as
$$Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C)$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A)$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B)$$
and all of them need to be true, thus you need to find interpretation such that
$$(Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C))wedge(Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A))wedge(Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B))$$ is true.
Hint 2: If you apply cyclic permutation to one of the three sentences, you will get the other ones. That means that interpretation under which all are true must also be invariant under cyclic permutations. There are only two such interpretations.
Edit:
Since J.G. decided to give a full solution, I might do it as well. Let me just say that Hint 2 (in the form that I've written) works only if we know that the solution to the problem is unique, otherwise the argument doesn't go through.
Let $a,b,csubseteq 0,1$ be an interpretation. Note that at least two of $a,b,c$ need to be equal. Since the sentences in the first Hint are cyclic permutations of each other, WLOG, $b = c$. That means that $neg Brightarrow neg C$ is necessarily true and so is $A$, i.e. $a = 1$. Thus, either $(a,b,c) = (1,0,0)$ or $(a,b,c)=(1,1,1)$. You can easily check that the third sentence is false under interpretation $(1,0,0)$. Thus, no one is lying.
Hint: You can write the three sentences as
$$Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C)$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A)$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B)$$
and all of them need to be true, thus you need to find interpretation such that
$$(Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C))wedge(Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A))wedge(Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B))$$ is true.
Hint 2: If you apply cyclic permutation to one of the three sentences, you will get the other ones. That means that interpretation under which all are true must also be invariant under cyclic permutations. There are only two such interpretations.
Edit:
Since J.G. decided to give a full solution, I might do it as well. Let me just say that Hint 2 (in the form that I've written) works only if we know that the solution to the problem is unique, otherwise the argument doesn't go through.
Let $a,b,csubseteq 0,1$ be an interpretation. Note that at least two of $a,b,c$ need to be equal. Since the sentences in the first Hint are cyclic permutations of each other, WLOG, $b = c$. That means that $neg Brightarrow neg C$ is necessarily true and so is $A$, i.e. $a = 1$. Thus, either $(a,b,c) = (1,0,0)$ or $(a,b,c)=(1,1,1)$. You can easily check that the third sentence is false under interpretation $(1,0,0)$. Thus, no one is lying.
edited Sep 2 at 11:58
answered Sep 2 at 11:11
Ennar
13.2k32343
13.2k32343
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
No-one is lying.
Let $A$ denote Alice's statement etc. so $A$ is equivalent to $neg Bimpliesneg C$ or, more neatly, $Cto B$. Representing claims as their truth values ($1$ for true, $0$ for false), we can instead write $A$ as $Bge C$.
Everyone telling the truth works, viz. $A=B=C=1$.
But everyone lying doesn't, because $A=B=C=0implies Bge Cimplies A=1$.
Nor can exactly two people be telling the truth, since by cyclic permutation we can assume Alice would be one of them, and then the remaining truth-teller would have to be Bob, so $Cge A$, making Charlie a truth-teller too.
But in fact, a single truth-teller isn't possible either; again cyclic permutation can make it Alice, so Charlie is lying and $B>A$, which contradicts Alice being a truth-teller.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
No-one is lying.
Let $A$ denote Alice's statement etc. so $A$ is equivalent to $neg Bimpliesneg C$ or, more neatly, $Cto B$. Representing claims as their truth values ($1$ for true, $0$ for false), we can instead write $A$ as $Bge C$.
Everyone telling the truth works, viz. $A=B=C=1$.
But everyone lying doesn't, because $A=B=C=0implies Bge Cimplies A=1$.
Nor can exactly two people be telling the truth, since by cyclic permutation we can assume Alice would be one of them, and then the remaining truth-teller would have to be Bob, so $Cge A$, making Charlie a truth-teller too.
But in fact, a single truth-teller isn't possible either; again cyclic permutation can make it Alice, so Charlie is lying and $B>A$, which contradicts Alice being a truth-teller.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
No-one is lying.
Let $A$ denote Alice's statement etc. so $A$ is equivalent to $neg Bimpliesneg C$ or, more neatly, $Cto B$. Representing claims as their truth values ($1$ for true, $0$ for false), we can instead write $A$ as $Bge C$.
Everyone telling the truth works, viz. $A=B=C=1$.
But everyone lying doesn't, because $A=B=C=0implies Bge Cimplies A=1$.
Nor can exactly two people be telling the truth, since by cyclic permutation we can assume Alice would be one of them, and then the remaining truth-teller would have to be Bob, so $Cge A$, making Charlie a truth-teller too.
But in fact, a single truth-teller isn't possible either; again cyclic permutation can make it Alice, so Charlie is lying and $B>A$, which contradicts Alice being a truth-teller.
No-one is lying.
Let $A$ denote Alice's statement etc. so $A$ is equivalent to $neg Bimpliesneg C$ or, more neatly, $Cto B$. Representing claims as their truth values ($1$ for true, $0$ for false), we can instead write $A$ as $Bge C$.
Everyone telling the truth works, viz. $A=B=C=1$.
But everyone lying doesn't, because $A=B=C=0implies Bge Cimplies A=1$.
Nor can exactly two people be telling the truth, since by cyclic permutation we can assume Alice would be one of them, and then the remaining truth-teller would have to be Bob, so $Cge A$, making Charlie a truth-teller too.
But in fact, a single truth-teller isn't possible either; again cyclic permutation can make it Alice, so Charlie is lying and $B>A$, which contradicts Alice being a truth-teller.
answered Sep 2 at 11:27
J.G.
14.6k11626
14.6k11626
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
As in my previous answer, we need to find interpretation such that
$$Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C)tag$a$$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A)tag$b$$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B)tag$c$$$
are all true.
Note that $Prightarrow Q$ is equivalent to $neg Qrightarrowneg P$, so the above sentences are equivalent to
$$Aleftrightarrow (Crightarrow B)tag$a'$$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (Arightarrow C)tag$b'$$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (Brightarrow A)tag$c'$$$
Now, $Prightarrow (Qrightarrow P)$ is tautology, i.e. equivalent to $1$.
Finally,
$$(a')wedge (b') implies Aleftrightarrow (Crightarrow (Arightarrow C)) implies A leftrightarrow 1$$
$$(b')wedge (c') implies Bleftrightarrow (Arightarrow (Brightarrow A)) implies B leftrightarrow 1$$
$$(c')wedge (a') implies Cleftrightarrow (Brightarrow (Crightarrow B)) implies C leftrightarrow 1$$
and thus, everybody tells the truth.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
As in my previous answer, we need to find interpretation such that
$$Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C)tag$a$$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A)tag$b$$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B)tag$c$$$
are all true.
Note that $Prightarrow Q$ is equivalent to $neg Qrightarrowneg P$, so the above sentences are equivalent to
$$Aleftrightarrow (Crightarrow B)tag$a'$$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (Arightarrow C)tag$b'$$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (Brightarrow A)tag$c'$$$
Now, $Prightarrow (Qrightarrow P)$ is tautology, i.e. equivalent to $1$.
Finally,
$$(a')wedge (b') implies Aleftrightarrow (Crightarrow (Arightarrow C)) implies A leftrightarrow 1$$
$$(b')wedge (c') implies Bleftrightarrow (Arightarrow (Brightarrow A)) implies B leftrightarrow 1$$
$$(c')wedge (a') implies Cleftrightarrow (Brightarrow (Crightarrow B)) implies C leftrightarrow 1$$
and thus, everybody tells the truth.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
As in my previous answer, we need to find interpretation such that
$$Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C)tag$a$$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A)tag$b$$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B)tag$c$$$
are all true.
Note that $Prightarrow Q$ is equivalent to $neg Qrightarrowneg P$, so the above sentences are equivalent to
$$Aleftrightarrow (Crightarrow B)tag$a'$$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (Arightarrow C)tag$b'$$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (Brightarrow A)tag$c'$$$
Now, $Prightarrow (Qrightarrow P)$ is tautology, i.e. equivalent to $1$.
Finally,
$$(a')wedge (b') implies Aleftrightarrow (Crightarrow (Arightarrow C)) implies A leftrightarrow 1$$
$$(b')wedge (c') implies Bleftrightarrow (Arightarrow (Brightarrow A)) implies B leftrightarrow 1$$
$$(c')wedge (a') implies Cleftrightarrow (Brightarrow (Crightarrow B)) implies C leftrightarrow 1$$
and thus, everybody tells the truth.
As in my previous answer, we need to find interpretation such that
$$Aleftrightarrow (neg Brightarrow neg C)tag$a$$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (neg Crightarrow neg A)tag$b$$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (neg Arightarrow neg B)tag$c$$$
are all true.
Note that $Prightarrow Q$ is equivalent to $neg Qrightarrowneg P$, so the above sentences are equivalent to
$$Aleftrightarrow (Crightarrow B)tag$a'$$$
$$Bleftrightarrow (Arightarrow C)tag$b'$$$
$$Cleftrightarrow (Brightarrow A)tag$c'$$$
Now, $Prightarrow (Qrightarrow P)$ is tautology, i.e. equivalent to $1$.
Finally,
$$(a')wedge (b') implies Aleftrightarrow (Crightarrow (Arightarrow C)) implies A leftrightarrow 1$$
$$(b')wedge (c') implies Bleftrightarrow (Arightarrow (Brightarrow A)) implies B leftrightarrow 1$$
$$(c')wedge (a') implies Cleftrightarrow (Brightarrow (Crightarrow B)) implies C leftrightarrow 1$$
and thus, everybody tells the truth.
answered Sep 2 at 12:31
Ennar
13.2k32343
13.2k32343
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
As an alternative and much quicker solution to the ones already given, consider that all statements are cyclic and so no particular person can be the only one lying/telling the truth. Either everyone lies or everyone tells the truth. Clearly it can't be the case that everyone lies, so everyone tells the truth.
This is the quickest way, but only works if we know that solution is unique. For example, $(1,0,0),(0,1,0),(0,0,1)$ could all be solutions and the cyclic symmetry is satisfied.
â Ennar
Sep 4 at 13:13
Sure, but that clearly isn't true in this case. Though I agree with you that in more complicated problems that could be a concern.
â user496634
Sep 4 at 23:43
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
As an alternative and much quicker solution to the ones already given, consider that all statements are cyclic and so no particular person can be the only one lying/telling the truth. Either everyone lies or everyone tells the truth. Clearly it can't be the case that everyone lies, so everyone tells the truth.
This is the quickest way, but only works if we know that solution is unique. For example, $(1,0,0),(0,1,0),(0,0,1)$ could all be solutions and the cyclic symmetry is satisfied.
â Ennar
Sep 4 at 13:13
Sure, but that clearly isn't true in this case. Though I agree with you that in more complicated problems that could be a concern.
â user496634
Sep 4 at 23:43
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
As an alternative and much quicker solution to the ones already given, consider that all statements are cyclic and so no particular person can be the only one lying/telling the truth. Either everyone lies or everyone tells the truth. Clearly it can't be the case that everyone lies, so everyone tells the truth.
As an alternative and much quicker solution to the ones already given, consider that all statements are cyclic and so no particular person can be the only one lying/telling the truth. Either everyone lies or everyone tells the truth. Clearly it can't be the case that everyone lies, so everyone tells the truth.
answered Sep 4 at 6:29
user496634
57519
57519
This is the quickest way, but only works if we know that solution is unique. For example, $(1,0,0),(0,1,0),(0,0,1)$ could all be solutions and the cyclic symmetry is satisfied.
â Ennar
Sep 4 at 13:13
Sure, but that clearly isn't true in this case. Though I agree with you that in more complicated problems that could be a concern.
â user496634
Sep 4 at 23:43
add a comment |Â
This is the quickest way, but only works if we know that solution is unique. For example, $(1,0,0),(0,1,0),(0,0,1)$ could all be solutions and the cyclic symmetry is satisfied.
â Ennar
Sep 4 at 13:13
Sure, but that clearly isn't true in this case. Though I agree with you that in more complicated problems that could be a concern.
â user496634
Sep 4 at 23:43
This is the quickest way, but only works if we know that solution is unique. For example, $(1,0,0),(0,1,0),(0,0,1)$ could all be solutions and the cyclic symmetry is satisfied.
â Ennar
Sep 4 at 13:13
This is the quickest way, but only works if we know that solution is unique. For example, $(1,0,0),(0,1,0),(0,0,1)$ could all be solutions and the cyclic symmetry is satisfied.
â Ennar
Sep 4 at 13:13
Sure, but that clearly isn't true in this case. Though I agree with you that in more complicated problems that could be a concern.
â user496634
Sep 4 at 23:43
Sure, but that clearly isn't true in this case. Though I agree with you that in more complicated problems that could be a concern.
â user496634
Sep 4 at 23:43
add a comment |Â
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