Show that (1) $A(S) = Ax : x in S $ and (2) $A^-1(S) = x : Ax in S $ are convex but (1) is not always closed while (2) is closed.

Multi tool use
Multi tool use

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
0
down vote

favorite













Problem definition:



Show that image of $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A(S) = Ax : x in S $ is (a) convex and (b) but not closed in general if $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex. Also, can we show when $A(S)$ is closed and when it is not?



However, if we consider the preimage $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A^-1(S) = x : Ax in S $, then it is both closed and convex.



EDIT: $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex and $A in mathbbR^m times n$.



EDIT EDIT: Additionally, assume that $S$ is closed, i.e., $S$ is a closed and convex set.











share|cite|improve this question























  • $A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read “$A(S)$ isn’t closed in general”. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but it’s not always closed.
    – David M.
    Sep 2 at 14:31










  • Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
    – user550103
    Sep 2 at 15:21










  • Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if that’s what you’d like to ask
    – David M.
    Sep 2 at 16:13










  • I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
    – user550103
    Sep 3 at 3:57














up vote
0
down vote

favorite













Problem definition:



Show that image of $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A(S) = Ax : x in S $ is (a) convex and (b) but not closed in general if $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex. Also, can we show when $A(S)$ is closed and when it is not?



However, if we consider the preimage $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A^-1(S) = x : Ax in S $, then it is both closed and convex.



EDIT: $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex and $A in mathbbR^m times n$.



EDIT EDIT: Additionally, assume that $S$ is closed, i.e., $S$ is a closed and convex set.











share|cite|improve this question























  • $A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read “$A(S)$ isn’t closed in general”. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but it’s not always closed.
    – David M.
    Sep 2 at 14:31










  • Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
    – user550103
    Sep 2 at 15:21










  • Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if that’s what you’d like to ask
    – David M.
    Sep 2 at 16:13










  • I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
    – user550103
    Sep 3 at 3:57












up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite












Problem definition:



Show that image of $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A(S) = Ax : x in S $ is (a) convex and (b) but not closed in general if $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex. Also, can we show when $A(S)$ is closed and when it is not?



However, if we consider the preimage $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A^-1(S) = x : Ax in S $, then it is both closed and convex.



EDIT: $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex and $A in mathbbR^m times n$.



EDIT EDIT: Additionally, assume that $S$ is closed, i.e., $S$ is a closed and convex set.











share|cite|improve this question
















Problem definition:



Show that image of $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A(S) = Ax : x in S $ is (a) convex and (b) but not closed in general if $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex. Also, can we show when $A(S)$ is closed and when it is not?



However, if we consider the preimage $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A^-1(S) = x : Ax in S $, then it is both closed and convex.



EDIT: $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex and $A in mathbbR^m times n$.



EDIT EDIT: Additionally, assume that $S$ is closed, i.e., $S$ is a closed and convex set.








real-analysis convex-analysis






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Sep 4 at 5:01

























asked Sep 2 at 12:45









user550103

721214




721214











  • $A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read “$A(S)$ isn’t closed in general”. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but it’s not always closed.
    – David M.
    Sep 2 at 14:31










  • Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
    – user550103
    Sep 2 at 15:21










  • Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if that’s what you’d like to ask
    – David M.
    Sep 2 at 16:13










  • I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
    – user550103
    Sep 3 at 3:57
















  • $A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read “$A(S)$ isn’t closed in general”. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but it’s not always closed.
    – David M.
    Sep 2 at 14:31










  • Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
    – user550103
    Sep 2 at 15:21










  • Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if that’s what you’d like to ask
    – David M.
    Sep 2 at 16:13










  • I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
    – user550103
    Sep 3 at 3:57















$A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read “$A(S)$ isn’t closed in general”. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but it’s not always closed.
– David M.
Sep 2 at 14:31




$A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read “$A(S)$ isn’t closed in general”. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but it’s not always closed.
– David M.
Sep 2 at 14:31












Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
– user550103
Sep 2 at 15:21




Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
– user550103
Sep 2 at 15:21












Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if that’s what you’d like to ask
– David M.
Sep 2 at 16:13




Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if that’s what you’d like to ask
– David M.
Sep 2 at 16:13












I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
– user550103
Sep 3 at 3:57




I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
– user550103
Sep 3 at 3:57










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote













(1) I suspect to your proof of convexity. You need to prove that$$textif quad v_1,v_2in A(S)quadtext then quad alpha v_1+(1-alpha )v_2in A(S)quad,quad0le alpha le1$$if $v_1,v_2in A(S)$ then there exist $x_1,x_2in S$ such that$$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2$$also $S$ is convex so $alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2in S$ which means that $$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)in A(S)$$and $A$ is linear therefore$$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)=alpha Ax_1+(1-alpha)Ax_2=alpha v_1+(1-alpha)v_2in A(S)$$which completes the proof on convexity.
We prove the following theorem $$textA(S)text is closed if and only if Stext is closed.$$proof 1: let $S$ be closed. Then every convergent sequence $v_1,v_2,v_3,cdots in A(S)$ converges to some $v$ whether in $A(S)$ or not. By definition we have $$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2\v_3=Ax_3\.\.\.$$since $v_i$s converge and $A$ is linear so the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3,cdots$ is convergent to some $x$ and because S is closed hence $xin S$ which is equivalent to $Axin A(S)$. Therefore the sequence $v_1,v_2,cdots in A(S)$ converges to $v=Axin A(S)$ and $A(S)$ is closed.
proof 2: let $S$ is not closed and assume by contradiction that $A(S)$ is closed. Therefore there exists some convergent sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ converging to some point outside of $S$. This sequence can be translated to $v_1=Ax_1,v_2=Ax_2,v_3=Ax_3,cdots in A(S)$ which is convergent to $vin A(S)$. Hence the definition $$exists xin Squad,quad v=Ax$$therefore the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ is convergent to $xin S$ which is contradiction. Therefore $A(S)$ is not closed and the proof is complete.
(2) The proof of convexity is simple, but I'm not sure if $A^-1(S)$ is always closed. Here is a counterexample. Take $A=I$ and $S$ any convex open set (such as inside the unit ball). Then $A^-1(S)=xin S=S$ which is convex but open.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:21










  • It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 5:16











  • @user550103 hope it helps you!
    – Mostafa Ayaz
    Sep 4 at 6:39

















up vote
1
down vote













(b) I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set; otherwise, an example is too trivial. I claim that, for a noninvertible nonzero linear transformation $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$, there exists a closed convex set $S$ such that $A(S)$ is not closed. Indeed, we have the following proposition.




Proposition. Let $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ be a linear transformation. Then, for every closed set $S$, the set $A(S)$ is closed if and only if $A=0$ or $A$ is invertible. (The convexity of $S$ is unnecessary.)




If $A$ is noninvertible and nonzero, then there exists a nonzero vector $vinmathbbR^n$ such that $Av=0$. Since $A$ is nonzero, there exists a nonzero vector $uinmathbbR^n$ perpendicular to $v$ with respect to the usual Euclidean norm on $mathbbR^n$. Define $$S:=bigxu+yv,big,.$$ It can be easily seen that $S$ is a convex set. However, $A(S)=bigt,Au,$ obviously is not a closed set (since $0$ is a limit point of $A(S)$ that does not lie in $A(S)$).



If $A$ is zero, then $A(S)=emptyset$ or $A(S)=0$, which are closed sets. If $A$ is invertible, then $m=n$ and $A$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorphism from $mathbbR^n$ to $mathbbR^m$, so $A$ sends closed sets to closed sets (and $A$ sends convex sets to convex sets due to Part (a)).



However, if you have a specific closed set $S$ and you want to determine whether $A(S)$ is also closed, then it is also possible to answer. First, let $N$ denote the nullspace of $A$. Then, $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ factors through the canonical projection $pi:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^n/N$ via $alpha:mathbbR^n/NtomathbbR^m$ sending $v+Nmapsto Av$ for any $vinmathbbR^n$ (that is, $A=alphacircpi$). Note that $alpha$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorpism from $mathbbR^n/N$ to its image. Therefore, it suffices to determine whether $pi(S)$ is a closed set.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:20











  • Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:33











  • If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 4:43











  • In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 4:45







  • 1




    In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 5:05











Your Answer




StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: false,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);













 

draft saved


draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2902692%2fshow-that-1-as-ax-x-in-s-and-2-a-1s-x-ax-in-s%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest






























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
1
down vote













(1) I suspect to your proof of convexity. You need to prove that$$textif quad v_1,v_2in A(S)quadtext then quad alpha v_1+(1-alpha )v_2in A(S)quad,quad0le alpha le1$$if $v_1,v_2in A(S)$ then there exist $x_1,x_2in S$ such that$$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2$$also $S$ is convex so $alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2in S$ which means that $$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)in A(S)$$and $A$ is linear therefore$$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)=alpha Ax_1+(1-alpha)Ax_2=alpha v_1+(1-alpha)v_2in A(S)$$which completes the proof on convexity.
We prove the following theorem $$textA(S)text is closed if and only if Stext is closed.$$proof 1: let $S$ be closed. Then every convergent sequence $v_1,v_2,v_3,cdots in A(S)$ converges to some $v$ whether in $A(S)$ or not. By definition we have $$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2\v_3=Ax_3\.\.\.$$since $v_i$s converge and $A$ is linear so the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3,cdots$ is convergent to some $x$ and because S is closed hence $xin S$ which is equivalent to $Axin A(S)$. Therefore the sequence $v_1,v_2,cdots in A(S)$ converges to $v=Axin A(S)$ and $A(S)$ is closed.
proof 2: let $S$ is not closed and assume by contradiction that $A(S)$ is closed. Therefore there exists some convergent sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ converging to some point outside of $S$. This sequence can be translated to $v_1=Ax_1,v_2=Ax_2,v_3=Ax_3,cdots in A(S)$ which is convergent to $vin A(S)$. Hence the definition $$exists xin Squad,quad v=Ax$$therefore the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ is convergent to $xin S$ which is contradiction. Therefore $A(S)$ is not closed and the proof is complete.
(2) The proof of convexity is simple, but I'm not sure if $A^-1(S)$ is always closed. Here is a counterexample. Take $A=I$ and $S$ any convex open set (such as inside the unit ball). Then $A^-1(S)=xin S=S$ which is convex but open.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:21










  • It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 5:16











  • @user550103 hope it helps you!
    – Mostafa Ayaz
    Sep 4 at 6:39














up vote
1
down vote













(1) I suspect to your proof of convexity. You need to prove that$$textif quad v_1,v_2in A(S)quadtext then quad alpha v_1+(1-alpha )v_2in A(S)quad,quad0le alpha le1$$if $v_1,v_2in A(S)$ then there exist $x_1,x_2in S$ such that$$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2$$also $S$ is convex so $alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2in S$ which means that $$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)in A(S)$$and $A$ is linear therefore$$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)=alpha Ax_1+(1-alpha)Ax_2=alpha v_1+(1-alpha)v_2in A(S)$$which completes the proof on convexity.
We prove the following theorem $$textA(S)text is closed if and only if Stext is closed.$$proof 1: let $S$ be closed. Then every convergent sequence $v_1,v_2,v_3,cdots in A(S)$ converges to some $v$ whether in $A(S)$ or not. By definition we have $$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2\v_3=Ax_3\.\.\.$$since $v_i$s converge and $A$ is linear so the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3,cdots$ is convergent to some $x$ and because S is closed hence $xin S$ which is equivalent to $Axin A(S)$. Therefore the sequence $v_1,v_2,cdots in A(S)$ converges to $v=Axin A(S)$ and $A(S)$ is closed.
proof 2: let $S$ is not closed and assume by contradiction that $A(S)$ is closed. Therefore there exists some convergent sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ converging to some point outside of $S$. This sequence can be translated to $v_1=Ax_1,v_2=Ax_2,v_3=Ax_3,cdots in A(S)$ which is convergent to $vin A(S)$. Hence the definition $$exists xin Squad,quad v=Ax$$therefore the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ is convergent to $xin S$ which is contradiction. Therefore $A(S)$ is not closed and the proof is complete.
(2) The proof of convexity is simple, but I'm not sure if $A^-1(S)$ is always closed. Here is a counterexample. Take $A=I$ and $S$ any convex open set (such as inside the unit ball). Then $A^-1(S)=xin S=S$ which is convex but open.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:21










  • It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 5:16











  • @user550103 hope it helps you!
    – Mostafa Ayaz
    Sep 4 at 6:39












up vote
1
down vote










up vote
1
down vote









(1) I suspect to your proof of convexity. You need to prove that$$textif quad v_1,v_2in A(S)quadtext then quad alpha v_1+(1-alpha )v_2in A(S)quad,quad0le alpha le1$$if $v_1,v_2in A(S)$ then there exist $x_1,x_2in S$ such that$$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2$$also $S$ is convex so $alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2in S$ which means that $$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)in A(S)$$and $A$ is linear therefore$$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)=alpha Ax_1+(1-alpha)Ax_2=alpha v_1+(1-alpha)v_2in A(S)$$which completes the proof on convexity.
We prove the following theorem $$textA(S)text is closed if and only if Stext is closed.$$proof 1: let $S$ be closed. Then every convergent sequence $v_1,v_2,v_3,cdots in A(S)$ converges to some $v$ whether in $A(S)$ or not. By definition we have $$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2\v_3=Ax_3\.\.\.$$since $v_i$s converge and $A$ is linear so the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3,cdots$ is convergent to some $x$ and because S is closed hence $xin S$ which is equivalent to $Axin A(S)$. Therefore the sequence $v_1,v_2,cdots in A(S)$ converges to $v=Axin A(S)$ and $A(S)$ is closed.
proof 2: let $S$ is not closed and assume by contradiction that $A(S)$ is closed. Therefore there exists some convergent sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ converging to some point outside of $S$. This sequence can be translated to $v_1=Ax_1,v_2=Ax_2,v_3=Ax_3,cdots in A(S)$ which is convergent to $vin A(S)$. Hence the definition $$exists xin Squad,quad v=Ax$$therefore the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ is convergent to $xin S$ which is contradiction. Therefore $A(S)$ is not closed and the proof is complete.
(2) The proof of convexity is simple, but I'm not sure if $A^-1(S)$ is always closed. Here is a counterexample. Take $A=I$ and $S$ any convex open set (such as inside the unit ball). Then $A^-1(S)=xin S=S$ which is convex but open.






share|cite|improve this answer












(1) I suspect to your proof of convexity. You need to prove that$$textif quad v_1,v_2in A(S)quadtext then quad alpha v_1+(1-alpha )v_2in A(S)quad,quad0le alpha le1$$if $v_1,v_2in A(S)$ then there exist $x_1,x_2in S$ such that$$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2$$also $S$ is convex so $alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2in S$ which means that $$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)in A(S)$$and $A$ is linear therefore$$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)=alpha Ax_1+(1-alpha)Ax_2=alpha v_1+(1-alpha)v_2in A(S)$$which completes the proof on convexity.
We prove the following theorem $$textA(S)text is closed if and only if Stext is closed.$$proof 1: let $S$ be closed. Then every convergent sequence $v_1,v_2,v_3,cdots in A(S)$ converges to some $v$ whether in $A(S)$ or not. By definition we have $$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2\v_3=Ax_3\.\.\.$$since $v_i$s converge and $A$ is linear so the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3,cdots$ is convergent to some $x$ and because S is closed hence $xin S$ which is equivalent to $Axin A(S)$. Therefore the sequence $v_1,v_2,cdots in A(S)$ converges to $v=Axin A(S)$ and $A(S)$ is closed.
proof 2: let $S$ is not closed and assume by contradiction that $A(S)$ is closed. Therefore there exists some convergent sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ converging to some point outside of $S$. This sequence can be translated to $v_1=Ax_1,v_2=Ax_2,v_3=Ax_3,cdots in A(S)$ which is convergent to $vin A(S)$. Hence the definition $$exists xin Squad,quad v=Ax$$therefore the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ is convergent to $xin S$ which is contradiction. Therefore $A(S)$ is not closed and the proof is complete.
(2) The proof of convexity is simple, but I'm not sure if $A^-1(S)$ is always closed. Here is a counterexample. Take $A=I$ and $S$ any convex open set (such as inside the unit ball). Then $A^-1(S)=xin S=S$ which is convex but open.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Sep 3 at 12:53









Mostafa Ayaz

10.4k3730




10.4k3730











  • Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:21










  • It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 5:16











  • @user550103 hope it helps you!
    – Mostafa Ayaz
    Sep 4 at 6:39
















  • Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:21










  • It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 5:16











  • @user550103 hope it helps you!
    – Mostafa Ayaz
    Sep 4 at 6:39















Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
– user550103
Sep 4 at 4:21




Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
– user550103
Sep 4 at 4:21












It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
– Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:16





It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
– Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:16













@user550103 hope it helps you!
– Mostafa Ayaz
Sep 4 at 6:39




@user550103 hope it helps you!
– Mostafa Ayaz
Sep 4 at 6:39










up vote
1
down vote













(b) I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set; otherwise, an example is too trivial. I claim that, for a noninvertible nonzero linear transformation $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$, there exists a closed convex set $S$ such that $A(S)$ is not closed. Indeed, we have the following proposition.




Proposition. Let $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ be a linear transformation. Then, for every closed set $S$, the set $A(S)$ is closed if and only if $A=0$ or $A$ is invertible. (The convexity of $S$ is unnecessary.)




If $A$ is noninvertible and nonzero, then there exists a nonzero vector $vinmathbbR^n$ such that $Av=0$. Since $A$ is nonzero, there exists a nonzero vector $uinmathbbR^n$ perpendicular to $v$ with respect to the usual Euclidean norm on $mathbbR^n$. Define $$S:=bigxu+yv,big,.$$ It can be easily seen that $S$ is a convex set. However, $A(S)=bigt,Au,$ obviously is not a closed set (since $0$ is a limit point of $A(S)$ that does not lie in $A(S)$).



If $A$ is zero, then $A(S)=emptyset$ or $A(S)=0$, which are closed sets. If $A$ is invertible, then $m=n$ and $A$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorphism from $mathbbR^n$ to $mathbbR^m$, so $A$ sends closed sets to closed sets (and $A$ sends convex sets to convex sets due to Part (a)).



However, if you have a specific closed set $S$ and you want to determine whether $A(S)$ is also closed, then it is also possible to answer. First, let $N$ denote the nullspace of $A$. Then, $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ factors through the canonical projection $pi:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^n/N$ via $alpha:mathbbR^n/NtomathbbR^m$ sending $v+Nmapsto Av$ for any $vinmathbbR^n$ (that is, $A=alphacircpi$). Note that $alpha$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorpism from $mathbbR^n/N$ to its image. Therefore, it suffices to determine whether $pi(S)$ is a closed set.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:20











  • Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:33











  • If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 4:43











  • In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 4:45







  • 1




    In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 5:05















up vote
1
down vote













(b) I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set; otherwise, an example is too trivial. I claim that, for a noninvertible nonzero linear transformation $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$, there exists a closed convex set $S$ such that $A(S)$ is not closed. Indeed, we have the following proposition.




Proposition. Let $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ be a linear transformation. Then, for every closed set $S$, the set $A(S)$ is closed if and only if $A=0$ or $A$ is invertible. (The convexity of $S$ is unnecessary.)




If $A$ is noninvertible and nonzero, then there exists a nonzero vector $vinmathbbR^n$ such that $Av=0$. Since $A$ is nonzero, there exists a nonzero vector $uinmathbbR^n$ perpendicular to $v$ with respect to the usual Euclidean norm on $mathbbR^n$. Define $$S:=bigxu+yv,big,.$$ It can be easily seen that $S$ is a convex set. However, $A(S)=bigt,Au,$ obviously is not a closed set (since $0$ is a limit point of $A(S)$ that does not lie in $A(S)$).



If $A$ is zero, then $A(S)=emptyset$ or $A(S)=0$, which are closed sets. If $A$ is invertible, then $m=n$ and $A$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorphism from $mathbbR^n$ to $mathbbR^m$, so $A$ sends closed sets to closed sets (and $A$ sends convex sets to convex sets due to Part (a)).



However, if you have a specific closed set $S$ and you want to determine whether $A(S)$ is also closed, then it is also possible to answer. First, let $N$ denote the nullspace of $A$. Then, $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ factors through the canonical projection $pi:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^n/N$ via $alpha:mathbbR^n/NtomathbbR^m$ sending $v+Nmapsto Av$ for any $vinmathbbR^n$ (that is, $A=alphacircpi$). Note that $alpha$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorpism from $mathbbR^n/N$ to its image. Therefore, it suffices to determine whether $pi(S)$ is a closed set.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:20











  • Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:33











  • If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 4:43











  • In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 4:45







  • 1




    In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 5:05













up vote
1
down vote










up vote
1
down vote









(b) I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set; otherwise, an example is too trivial. I claim that, for a noninvertible nonzero linear transformation $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$, there exists a closed convex set $S$ such that $A(S)$ is not closed. Indeed, we have the following proposition.




Proposition. Let $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ be a linear transformation. Then, for every closed set $S$, the set $A(S)$ is closed if and only if $A=0$ or $A$ is invertible. (The convexity of $S$ is unnecessary.)




If $A$ is noninvertible and nonzero, then there exists a nonzero vector $vinmathbbR^n$ such that $Av=0$. Since $A$ is nonzero, there exists a nonzero vector $uinmathbbR^n$ perpendicular to $v$ with respect to the usual Euclidean norm on $mathbbR^n$. Define $$S:=bigxu+yv,big,.$$ It can be easily seen that $S$ is a convex set. However, $A(S)=bigt,Au,$ obviously is not a closed set (since $0$ is a limit point of $A(S)$ that does not lie in $A(S)$).



If $A$ is zero, then $A(S)=emptyset$ or $A(S)=0$, which are closed sets. If $A$ is invertible, then $m=n$ and $A$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorphism from $mathbbR^n$ to $mathbbR^m$, so $A$ sends closed sets to closed sets (and $A$ sends convex sets to convex sets due to Part (a)).



However, if you have a specific closed set $S$ and you want to determine whether $A(S)$ is also closed, then it is also possible to answer. First, let $N$ denote the nullspace of $A$. Then, $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ factors through the canonical projection $pi:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^n/N$ via $alpha:mathbbR^n/NtomathbbR^m$ sending $v+Nmapsto Av$ for any $vinmathbbR^n$ (that is, $A=alphacircpi$). Note that $alpha$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorpism from $mathbbR^n/N$ to its image. Therefore, it suffices to determine whether $pi(S)$ is a closed set.






share|cite|improve this answer














(b) I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set; otherwise, an example is too trivial. I claim that, for a noninvertible nonzero linear transformation $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$, there exists a closed convex set $S$ such that $A(S)$ is not closed. Indeed, we have the following proposition.




Proposition. Let $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ be a linear transformation. Then, for every closed set $S$, the set $A(S)$ is closed if and only if $A=0$ or $A$ is invertible. (The convexity of $S$ is unnecessary.)




If $A$ is noninvertible and nonzero, then there exists a nonzero vector $vinmathbbR^n$ such that $Av=0$. Since $A$ is nonzero, there exists a nonzero vector $uinmathbbR^n$ perpendicular to $v$ with respect to the usual Euclidean norm on $mathbbR^n$. Define $$S:=bigxu+yv,big,.$$ It can be easily seen that $S$ is a convex set. However, $A(S)=bigt,Au,$ obviously is not a closed set (since $0$ is a limit point of $A(S)$ that does not lie in $A(S)$).



If $A$ is zero, then $A(S)=emptyset$ or $A(S)=0$, which are closed sets. If $A$ is invertible, then $m=n$ and $A$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorphism from $mathbbR^n$ to $mathbbR^m$, so $A$ sends closed sets to closed sets (and $A$ sends convex sets to convex sets due to Part (a)).



However, if you have a specific closed set $S$ and you want to determine whether $A(S)$ is also closed, then it is also possible to answer. First, let $N$ denote the nullspace of $A$. Then, $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ factors through the canonical projection $pi:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^n/N$ via $alpha:mathbbR^n/NtomathbbR^m$ sending $v+Nmapsto Av$ for any $vinmathbbR^n$ (that is, $A=alphacircpi$). Note that $alpha$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorpism from $mathbbR^n/N$ to its image. Therefore, it suffices to determine whether $pi(S)$ is a closed set.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Sep 4 at 6:29

























answered Sep 3 at 13:33









Batominovski

25.7k22881




25.7k22881











  • Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:20











  • Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:33











  • If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 4:43











  • In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 4:45







  • 1




    In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 5:05

















  • Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:20











  • Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
    – user550103
    Sep 4 at 4:33











  • If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 4:43











  • In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 4:45







  • 1




    In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
    – Batominovski
    Sep 4 at 5:05
















Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
– user550103
Sep 4 at 4:20





Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
– user550103
Sep 4 at 4:20













Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
– user550103
Sep 4 at 4:33





Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
– user550103
Sep 4 at 4:33













If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
– Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:43





If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
– Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:43













In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
– Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:45





In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
– Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:45





1




1




In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
– Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:05





In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
– Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:05


















 

draft saved


draft discarded















































 


draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2902692%2fshow-that-1-as-ax-x-in-s-and-2-a-1s-x-ax-in-s%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest













































































4IH5FZoIXh8TDS,rFYAr4gNKlF07uABRWXs fJuZ6wGwz7ycHlj1u30oTiIuNZu73Ey HmFIB
gnRB,rj2pmm,XkoVj4wCD10ihPPdyc,d

這個網誌中的熱門文章

How to combine Bézier curves to a surface?

Propositional logic and tautologies

Distribution of Stopped Wiener Process with Stochastic Volatility