Show that (1) $A(S) = Ax : x in S $ and (2) $A^-1(S) = x : Ax in S $ are convex but (1) is not always closed while (2) is closed.
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Problem definition:
Show that image of $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A(S) = Ax : x in S $ is (a) convex and (b) but not closed in general if $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex. Also, can we show when $A(S)$ is closed and when it is not?
However, if we consider the preimage $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A^-1(S) = x : Ax in S $, then it is both closed and convex.
EDIT: $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex and $A in mathbbR^m times n$.
EDIT EDIT: Additionally, assume that $S$ is closed, i.e., $S$ is a closed and convex set.
real-analysis convex-analysis
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Problem definition:
Show that image of $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A(S) = Ax : x in S $ is (a) convex and (b) but not closed in general if $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex. Also, can we show when $A(S)$ is closed and when it is not?
However, if we consider the preimage $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A^-1(S) = x : Ax in S $, then it is both closed and convex.
EDIT: $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex and $A in mathbbR^m times n$.
EDIT EDIT: Additionally, assume that $S$ is closed, i.e., $S$ is a closed and convex set.
real-analysis convex-analysis
$A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read âÂÂ$A(S)$ isnâÂÂt closed in generalâÂÂ. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but itâÂÂs not always closed.
â David M.
Sep 2 at 14:31
Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
â user550103
Sep 2 at 15:21
Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if thatâÂÂs what youâÂÂd like to ask
â David M.
Sep 2 at 16:13
I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
â user550103
Sep 3 at 3:57
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Problem definition:
Show that image of $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A(S) = Ax : x in S $ is (a) convex and (b) but not closed in general if $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex. Also, can we show when $A(S)$ is closed and when it is not?
However, if we consider the preimage $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A^-1(S) = x : Ax in S $, then it is both closed and convex.
EDIT: $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex and $A in mathbbR^m times n$.
EDIT EDIT: Additionally, assume that $S$ is closed, i.e., $S$ is a closed and convex set.
real-analysis convex-analysis
Problem definition:
Show that image of $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A(S) = Ax : x in S $ is (a) convex and (b) but not closed in general if $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex. Also, can we show when $A(S)$ is closed and when it is not?
However, if we consider the preimage $S$ under $A$, i.e., $A^-1(S) = x : Ax in S $, then it is both closed and convex.
EDIT: $S subseteq mathbbR^n$ is convex and $A in mathbbR^m times n$.
EDIT EDIT: Additionally, assume that $S$ is closed, i.e., $S$ is a closed and convex set.
real-analysis convex-analysis
real-analysis convex-analysis
edited Sep 4 at 5:01
asked Sep 2 at 12:45
user550103
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721214
$A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read âÂÂ$A(S)$ isnâÂÂt closed in generalâÂÂ. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but itâÂÂs not always closed.
â David M.
Sep 2 at 14:31
Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
â user550103
Sep 2 at 15:21
Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if thatâÂÂs what youâÂÂd like to ask
â David M.
Sep 2 at 16:13
I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
â user550103
Sep 3 at 3:57
add a comment |Â
$A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read âÂÂ$A(S)$ isnâÂÂt closed in generalâÂÂ. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but itâÂÂs not always closed.
â David M.
Sep 2 at 14:31
Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
â user550103
Sep 2 at 15:21
Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if thatâÂÂs what youâÂÂd like to ask
â David M.
Sep 2 at 16:13
I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
â user550103
Sep 3 at 3:57
$A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read âÂÂ$A(S)$ isnâÂÂt closed in generalâÂÂ. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but itâÂÂs not always closed.
â David M.
Sep 2 at 14:31
$A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read âÂÂ$A(S)$ isnâÂÂt closed in generalâÂÂ. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but itâÂÂs not always closed.
â David M.
Sep 2 at 14:31
Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
â user550103
Sep 2 at 15:21
Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
â user550103
Sep 2 at 15:21
Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if thatâÂÂs what youâÂÂd like to ask
â David M.
Sep 2 at 16:13
Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if thatâÂÂs what youâÂÂd like to ask
â David M.
Sep 2 at 16:13
I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
â user550103
Sep 3 at 3:57
I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
â user550103
Sep 3 at 3:57
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
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(1) I suspect to your proof of convexity. You need to prove that$$textif quad v_1,v_2in A(S)quadtext then quad alpha v_1+(1-alpha )v_2in A(S)quad,quad0le alpha le1$$if $v_1,v_2in A(S)$ then there exist $x_1,x_2in S$ such that$$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2$$also $S$ is convex so $alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2in S$ which means that $$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)in A(S)$$and $A$ is linear therefore$$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)=alpha Ax_1+(1-alpha)Ax_2=alpha v_1+(1-alpha)v_2in A(S)$$which completes the proof on convexity.
We prove the following theorem $$textA(S)text is closed if and only if Stext is closed.$$proof 1: let $S$ be closed. Then every convergent sequence $v_1,v_2,v_3,cdots in A(S)$ converges to some $v$ whether in $A(S)$ or not. By definition we have $$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2\v_3=Ax_3\.\.\.$$since $v_i$s converge and $A$ is linear so the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3,cdots$ is convergent to some $x$ and because S is closed hence $xin S$ which is equivalent to $Axin A(S)$. Therefore the sequence $v_1,v_2,cdots in A(S)$ converges to $v=Axin A(S)$ and $A(S)$ is closed.
proof 2: let $S$ is not closed and assume by contradiction that $A(S)$ is closed. Therefore there exists some convergent sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ converging to some point outside of $S$. This sequence can be translated to $v_1=Ax_1,v_2=Ax_2,v_3=Ax_3,cdots in A(S)$ which is convergent to $vin A(S)$. Hence the definition $$exists xin Squad,quad v=Ax$$therefore the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ is convergent to $xin S$ which is contradiction. Therefore $A(S)$ is not closed and the proof is complete.
(2) The proof of convexity is simple, but I'm not sure if $A^-1(S)$ is always closed. Here is a counterexample. Take $A=I$ and $S$ any convex open set (such as inside the unit ball). Then $A^-1(S)=xin S=S$ which is convex but open.
Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:21
It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:16
@user550103 hope it helps you!
â Mostafa Ayaz
Sep 4 at 6:39
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(b) I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set; otherwise, an example is too trivial. I claim that, for a noninvertible nonzero linear transformation $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$, there exists a closed convex set $S$ such that $A(S)$ is not closed. Indeed, we have the following proposition.
Proposition. Let $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ be a linear transformation. Then, for every closed set $S$, the set $A(S)$ is closed if and only if $A=0$ or $A$ is invertible. (The convexity of $S$ is unnecessary.)
If $A$ is noninvertible and nonzero, then there exists a nonzero vector $vinmathbbR^n$ such that $Av=0$. Since $A$ is nonzero, there exists a nonzero vector $uinmathbbR^n$ perpendicular to $v$ with respect to the usual Euclidean norm on $mathbbR^n$. Define $$S:=bigxu+yv,big,.$$ It can be easily seen that $S$ is a convex set. However, $A(S)=bigt,Au,$ obviously is not a closed set (since $0$ is a limit point of $A(S)$ that does not lie in $A(S)$).
If $A$ is zero, then $A(S)=emptyset$ or $A(S)=0$, which are closed sets. If $A$ is invertible, then $m=n$ and $A$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorphism from $mathbbR^n$ to $mathbbR^m$, so $A$ sends closed sets to closed sets (and $A$ sends convex sets to convex sets due to Part (a)).
However, if you have a specific closed set $S$ and you want to determine whether $A(S)$ is also closed, then it is also possible to answer. First, let $N$ denote the nullspace of $A$. Then, $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ factors through the canonical projection $pi:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^n/N$ via $alpha:mathbbR^n/NtomathbbR^m$ sending $v+Nmapsto Av$ for any $vinmathbbR^n$ (that is, $A=alphacircpi$). Note that $alpha$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorpism from $mathbbR^n/N$ to its image. Therefore, it suffices to determine whether $pi(S)$ is a closed set.
Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:20
Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:33
If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:43
In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:45
1
In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:05
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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active
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active
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(1) I suspect to your proof of convexity. You need to prove that$$textif quad v_1,v_2in A(S)quadtext then quad alpha v_1+(1-alpha )v_2in A(S)quad,quad0le alpha le1$$if $v_1,v_2in A(S)$ then there exist $x_1,x_2in S$ such that$$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2$$also $S$ is convex so $alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2in S$ which means that $$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)in A(S)$$and $A$ is linear therefore$$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)=alpha Ax_1+(1-alpha)Ax_2=alpha v_1+(1-alpha)v_2in A(S)$$which completes the proof on convexity.
We prove the following theorem $$textA(S)text is closed if and only if Stext is closed.$$proof 1: let $S$ be closed. Then every convergent sequence $v_1,v_2,v_3,cdots in A(S)$ converges to some $v$ whether in $A(S)$ or not. By definition we have $$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2\v_3=Ax_3\.\.\.$$since $v_i$s converge and $A$ is linear so the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3,cdots$ is convergent to some $x$ and because S is closed hence $xin S$ which is equivalent to $Axin A(S)$. Therefore the sequence $v_1,v_2,cdots in A(S)$ converges to $v=Axin A(S)$ and $A(S)$ is closed.
proof 2: let $S$ is not closed and assume by contradiction that $A(S)$ is closed. Therefore there exists some convergent sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ converging to some point outside of $S$. This sequence can be translated to $v_1=Ax_1,v_2=Ax_2,v_3=Ax_3,cdots in A(S)$ which is convergent to $vin A(S)$. Hence the definition $$exists xin Squad,quad v=Ax$$therefore the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ is convergent to $xin S$ which is contradiction. Therefore $A(S)$ is not closed and the proof is complete.
(2) The proof of convexity is simple, but I'm not sure if $A^-1(S)$ is always closed. Here is a counterexample. Take $A=I$ and $S$ any convex open set (such as inside the unit ball). Then $A^-1(S)=xin S=S$ which is convex but open.
Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:21
It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:16
@user550103 hope it helps you!
â Mostafa Ayaz
Sep 4 at 6:39
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
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(1) I suspect to your proof of convexity. You need to prove that$$textif quad v_1,v_2in A(S)quadtext then quad alpha v_1+(1-alpha )v_2in A(S)quad,quad0le alpha le1$$if $v_1,v_2in A(S)$ then there exist $x_1,x_2in S$ such that$$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2$$also $S$ is convex so $alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2in S$ which means that $$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)in A(S)$$and $A$ is linear therefore$$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)=alpha Ax_1+(1-alpha)Ax_2=alpha v_1+(1-alpha)v_2in A(S)$$which completes the proof on convexity.
We prove the following theorem $$textA(S)text is closed if and only if Stext is closed.$$proof 1: let $S$ be closed. Then every convergent sequence $v_1,v_2,v_3,cdots in A(S)$ converges to some $v$ whether in $A(S)$ or not. By definition we have $$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2\v_3=Ax_3\.\.\.$$since $v_i$s converge and $A$ is linear so the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3,cdots$ is convergent to some $x$ and because S is closed hence $xin S$ which is equivalent to $Axin A(S)$. Therefore the sequence $v_1,v_2,cdots in A(S)$ converges to $v=Axin A(S)$ and $A(S)$ is closed.
proof 2: let $S$ is not closed and assume by contradiction that $A(S)$ is closed. Therefore there exists some convergent sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ converging to some point outside of $S$. This sequence can be translated to $v_1=Ax_1,v_2=Ax_2,v_3=Ax_3,cdots in A(S)$ which is convergent to $vin A(S)$. Hence the definition $$exists xin Squad,quad v=Ax$$therefore the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ is convergent to $xin S$ which is contradiction. Therefore $A(S)$ is not closed and the proof is complete.
(2) The proof of convexity is simple, but I'm not sure if $A^-1(S)$ is always closed. Here is a counterexample. Take $A=I$ and $S$ any convex open set (such as inside the unit ball). Then $A^-1(S)=xin S=S$ which is convex but open.
Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:21
It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:16
@user550103 hope it helps you!
â Mostafa Ayaz
Sep 4 at 6:39
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
(1) I suspect to your proof of convexity. You need to prove that$$textif quad v_1,v_2in A(S)quadtext then quad alpha v_1+(1-alpha )v_2in A(S)quad,quad0le alpha le1$$if $v_1,v_2in A(S)$ then there exist $x_1,x_2in S$ such that$$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2$$also $S$ is convex so $alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2in S$ which means that $$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)in A(S)$$and $A$ is linear therefore$$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)=alpha Ax_1+(1-alpha)Ax_2=alpha v_1+(1-alpha)v_2in A(S)$$which completes the proof on convexity.
We prove the following theorem $$textA(S)text is closed if and only if Stext is closed.$$proof 1: let $S$ be closed. Then every convergent sequence $v_1,v_2,v_3,cdots in A(S)$ converges to some $v$ whether in $A(S)$ or not. By definition we have $$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2\v_3=Ax_3\.\.\.$$since $v_i$s converge and $A$ is linear so the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3,cdots$ is convergent to some $x$ and because S is closed hence $xin S$ which is equivalent to $Axin A(S)$. Therefore the sequence $v_1,v_2,cdots in A(S)$ converges to $v=Axin A(S)$ and $A(S)$ is closed.
proof 2: let $S$ is not closed and assume by contradiction that $A(S)$ is closed. Therefore there exists some convergent sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ converging to some point outside of $S$. This sequence can be translated to $v_1=Ax_1,v_2=Ax_2,v_3=Ax_3,cdots in A(S)$ which is convergent to $vin A(S)$. Hence the definition $$exists xin Squad,quad v=Ax$$therefore the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ is convergent to $xin S$ which is contradiction. Therefore $A(S)$ is not closed and the proof is complete.
(2) The proof of convexity is simple, but I'm not sure if $A^-1(S)$ is always closed. Here is a counterexample. Take $A=I$ and $S$ any convex open set (such as inside the unit ball). Then $A^-1(S)=xin S=S$ which is convex but open.
(1) I suspect to your proof of convexity. You need to prove that$$textif quad v_1,v_2in A(S)quadtext then quad alpha v_1+(1-alpha )v_2in A(S)quad,quad0le alpha le1$$if $v_1,v_2in A(S)$ then there exist $x_1,x_2in S$ such that$$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2$$also $S$ is convex so $alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2in S$ which means that $$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)in A(S)$$and $A$ is linear therefore$$A(alpha x_1+(1-alpha )x_2)=alpha Ax_1+(1-alpha)Ax_2=alpha v_1+(1-alpha)v_2in A(S)$$which completes the proof on convexity.
We prove the following theorem $$textA(S)text is closed if and only if Stext is closed.$$proof 1: let $S$ be closed. Then every convergent sequence $v_1,v_2,v_3,cdots in A(S)$ converges to some $v$ whether in $A(S)$ or not. By definition we have $$v_1=Ax_1\v_2=Ax_2\v_3=Ax_3\.\.\.$$since $v_i$s converge and $A$ is linear so the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3,cdots$ is convergent to some $x$ and because S is closed hence $xin S$ which is equivalent to $Axin A(S)$. Therefore the sequence $v_1,v_2,cdots in A(S)$ converges to $v=Axin A(S)$ and $A(S)$ is closed.
proof 2: let $S$ is not closed and assume by contradiction that $A(S)$ is closed. Therefore there exists some convergent sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ converging to some point outside of $S$. This sequence can be translated to $v_1=Ax_1,v_2=Ax_2,v_3=Ax_3,cdots in A(S)$ which is convergent to $vin A(S)$. Hence the definition $$exists xin Squad,quad v=Ax$$therefore the sequence $x_1,x_2,x_3cdots in S$ is convergent to $xin S$ which is contradiction. Therefore $A(S)$ is not closed and the proof is complete.
(2) The proof of convexity is simple, but I'm not sure if $A^-1(S)$ is always closed. Here is a counterexample. Take $A=I$ and $S$ any convex open set (such as inside the unit ball). Then $A^-1(S)=xin S=S$ which is convex but open.
answered Sep 3 at 12:53
Mostafa Ayaz
10.4k3730
10.4k3730
Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:21
It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:16
@user550103 hope it helps you!
â Mostafa Ayaz
Sep 4 at 6:39
add a comment |Â
Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:21
It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:16
@user550103 hope it helps you!
â Mostafa Ayaz
Sep 4 at 6:39
Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:21
Thank you very much for the correction of my attempt and also your answer. I highly appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:21
It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:16
It is not true though that $A(S)$ is closed if $S$ is closed. The sequence $x_1,x_2,ldots$ need not converge. Of course, if it does converge, then it has to converge to some $xin S$, since $S$ is closed. In my example (see my answer), $v_n:=frac1n,Au$ converges to $0$, but its preimage under $A$ in $S$ can be taken to be $x_n=frac1n,u+n,v$, and $x_1,x_2,ldots$ do not form a convergent sequence.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:16
@user550103 hope it helps you!
â Mostafa Ayaz
Sep 4 at 6:39
@user550103 hope it helps you!
â Mostafa Ayaz
Sep 4 at 6:39
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
(b) I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set; otherwise, an example is too trivial. I claim that, for a noninvertible nonzero linear transformation $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$, there exists a closed convex set $S$ such that $A(S)$ is not closed. Indeed, we have the following proposition.
Proposition. Let $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ be a linear transformation. Then, for every closed set $S$, the set $A(S)$ is closed if and only if $A=0$ or $A$ is invertible. (The convexity of $S$ is unnecessary.)
If $A$ is noninvertible and nonzero, then there exists a nonzero vector $vinmathbbR^n$ such that $Av=0$. Since $A$ is nonzero, there exists a nonzero vector $uinmathbbR^n$ perpendicular to $v$ with respect to the usual Euclidean norm on $mathbbR^n$. Define $$S:=bigxu+yv,big,.$$ It can be easily seen that $S$ is a convex set. However, $A(S)=bigt,Au,$ obviously is not a closed set (since $0$ is a limit point of $A(S)$ that does not lie in $A(S)$).
If $A$ is zero, then $A(S)=emptyset$ or $A(S)=0$, which are closed sets. If $A$ is invertible, then $m=n$ and $A$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorphism from $mathbbR^n$ to $mathbbR^m$, so $A$ sends closed sets to closed sets (and $A$ sends convex sets to convex sets due to Part (a)).
However, if you have a specific closed set $S$ and you want to determine whether $A(S)$ is also closed, then it is also possible to answer. First, let $N$ denote the nullspace of $A$. Then, $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ factors through the canonical projection $pi:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^n/N$ via $alpha:mathbbR^n/NtomathbbR^m$ sending $v+Nmapsto Av$ for any $vinmathbbR^n$ (that is, $A=alphacircpi$). Note that $alpha$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorpism from $mathbbR^n/N$ to its image. Therefore, it suffices to determine whether $pi(S)$ is a closed set.
Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:20
Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:33
If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:43
In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:45
1
In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:05
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
(b) I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set; otherwise, an example is too trivial. I claim that, for a noninvertible nonzero linear transformation $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$, there exists a closed convex set $S$ such that $A(S)$ is not closed. Indeed, we have the following proposition.
Proposition. Let $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ be a linear transformation. Then, for every closed set $S$, the set $A(S)$ is closed if and only if $A=0$ or $A$ is invertible. (The convexity of $S$ is unnecessary.)
If $A$ is noninvertible and nonzero, then there exists a nonzero vector $vinmathbbR^n$ such that $Av=0$. Since $A$ is nonzero, there exists a nonzero vector $uinmathbbR^n$ perpendicular to $v$ with respect to the usual Euclidean norm on $mathbbR^n$. Define $$S:=bigxu+yv,big,.$$ It can be easily seen that $S$ is a convex set. However, $A(S)=bigt,Au,$ obviously is not a closed set (since $0$ is a limit point of $A(S)$ that does not lie in $A(S)$).
If $A$ is zero, then $A(S)=emptyset$ or $A(S)=0$, which are closed sets. If $A$ is invertible, then $m=n$ and $A$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorphism from $mathbbR^n$ to $mathbbR^m$, so $A$ sends closed sets to closed sets (and $A$ sends convex sets to convex sets due to Part (a)).
However, if you have a specific closed set $S$ and you want to determine whether $A(S)$ is also closed, then it is also possible to answer. First, let $N$ denote the nullspace of $A$. Then, $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ factors through the canonical projection $pi:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^n/N$ via $alpha:mathbbR^n/NtomathbbR^m$ sending $v+Nmapsto Av$ for any $vinmathbbR^n$ (that is, $A=alphacircpi$). Note that $alpha$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorpism from $mathbbR^n/N$ to its image. Therefore, it suffices to determine whether $pi(S)$ is a closed set.
Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:20
Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:33
If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:43
In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:45
1
In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:05
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
(b) I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set; otherwise, an example is too trivial. I claim that, for a noninvertible nonzero linear transformation $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$, there exists a closed convex set $S$ such that $A(S)$ is not closed. Indeed, we have the following proposition.
Proposition. Let $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ be a linear transformation. Then, for every closed set $S$, the set $A(S)$ is closed if and only if $A=0$ or $A$ is invertible. (The convexity of $S$ is unnecessary.)
If $A$ is noninvertible and nonzero, then there exists a nonzero vector $vinmathbbR^n$ such that $Av=0$. Since $A$ is nonzero, there exists a nonzero vector $uinmathbbR^n$ perpendicular to $v$ with respect to the usual Euclidean norm on $mathbbR^n$. Define $$S:=bigxu+yv,big,.$$ It can be easily seen that $S$ is a convex set. However, $A(S)=bigt,Au,$ obviously is not a closed set (since $0$ is a limit point of $A(S)$ that does not lie in $A(S)$).
If $A$ is zero, then $A(S)=emptyset$ or $A(S)=0$, which are closed sets. If $A$ is invertible, then $m=n$ and $A$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorphism from $mathbbR^n$ to $mathbbR^m$, so $A$ sends closed sets to closed sets (and $A$ sends convex sets to convex sets due to Part (a)).
However, if you have a specific closed set $S$ and you want to determine whether $A(S)$ is also closed, then it is also possible to answer. First, let $N$ denote the nullspace of $A$. Then, $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ factors through the canonical projection $pi:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^n/N$ via $alpha:mathbbR^n/NtomathbbR^m$ sending $v+Nmapsto Av$ for any $vinmathbbR^n$ (that is, $A=alphacircpi$). Note that $alpha$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorpism from $mathbbR^n/N$ to its image. Therefore, it suffices to determine whether $pi(S)$ is a closed set.
(b) I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set; otherwise, an example is too trivial. I claim that, for a noninvertible nonzero linear transformation $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$, there exists a closed convex set $S$ such that $A(S)$ is not closed. Indeed, we have the following proposition.
Proposition. Let $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ be a linear transformation. Then, for every closed set $S$, the set $A(S)$ is closed if and only if $A=0$ or $A$ is invertible. (The convexity of $S$ is unnecessary.)
If $A$ is noninvertible and nonzero, then there exists a nonzero vector $vinmathbbR^n$ such that $Av=0$. Since $A$ is nonzero, there exists a nonzero vector $uinmathbbR^n$ perpendicular to $v$ with respect to the usual Euclidean norm on $mathbbR^n$. Define $$S:=bigxu+yv,big,.$$ It can be easily seen that $S$ is a convex set. However, $A(S)=bigt,Au,$ obviously is not a closed set (since $0$ is a limit point of $A(S)$ that does not lie in $A(S)$).
If $A$ is zero, then $A(S)=emptyset$ or $A(S)=0$, which are closed sets. If $A$ is invertible, then $m=n$ and $A$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorphism from $mathbbR^n$ to $mathbbR^m$, so $A$ sends closed sets to closed sets (and $A$ sends convex sets to convex sets due to Part (a)).
However, if you have a specific closed set $S$ and you want to determine whether $A(S)$ is also closed, then it is also possible to answer. First, let $N$ denote the nullspace of $A$. Then, $A:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^m$ factors through the canonical projection $pi:mathbbR^ntomathbbR^n/N$ via $alpha:mathbbR^n/NtomathbbR^m$ sending $v+Nmapsto Av$ for any $vinmathbbR^n$ (that is, $A=alphacircpi$). Note that $alpha$ is a $mathcalC^infty$-diffeomorpism from $mathbbR^n/N$ to its image. Therefore, it suffices to determine whether $pi(S)$ is a closed set.
edited Sep 4 at 6:29
answered Sep 3 at 13:33
Batominovski
25.7k22881
25.7k22881
Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:20
Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:33
If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:43
In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:45
1
In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:05
 |Â
show 6 more comments
Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:20
Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:33
If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:43
In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:45
1
In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:05
Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:20
Thank you so much for the nice proof. I really appreciate it.
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:20
Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:33
Do you think $A^-1(S)$ set is also not closed in general? Mostafa showed an interesting example that if $A^-1$ is an identity matrix then this set is not closed...
â user550103
Sep 4 at 4:33
If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:43
If $A$ is invertible, then $A^-1(S)$ is a closed set if and only if $S$ is a closed set. On the other hand, if we don't know whether $A$ is invertible, then we only know that $A^-1(S)$ is closed, provided that $S$ is closed. Your problem statement never assumes that $S$ is a closed set, so I don't know why you would think that $A(S)$ (or $A^-1(S)$) should be closed.
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:43
In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:45
In fact, you never even assumed that $S$ is convex. Your problem statement is very unclear to begin with, and we the answerers are making guess work here. You should fix your problem statement to make it clear whether $S$ is convex, and whether $S$ is closed. Don't let other users read your mind. I had to make a guess of what you wanted too (see my first sentence: "I assume that $S$ is a closed convex set").
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 4:45
1
1
In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:05
In Question 1 of the pdf file above, it is said that you are to replace "convex" by "closed." That is, Part (i) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A(S)$ is closed" (which is not true). Part (ii) becomes: "Show that If $S$ is closed, then $A^-1(S)$ is closed" (this version is true).
â Batominovski
Sep 4 at 5:05
 |Â
show 6 more comments
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$A$ is a linear transformation here? Also, it seems like the exercise should read âÂÂ$A(S)$ isnâÂÂt closed in generalâÂÂ. Sometimes $A(S)$ is closed, but itâÂÂs not always closed.
â David M.
Sep 2 at 14:31
Yes, $A$ is a linear transformation matrix. Aha interesting. Can we show when it is not closed and when it is closed?
â user550103
Sep 2 at 15:21
Such conditions should exist. You should edit your post if thatâÂÂs what youâÂÂd like to ask
â David M.
Sep 2 at 16:13
I have edited the question accordingly. Thanks.
â user550103
Sep 3 at 3:57