A De Morgan law application in set theory

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The application of De Morgan law in the field of set theory generate this equality, but i'm not able to understand it. Can you help me ? Thanks for your time



$bigcup A_n=bigcup (A_1^ccap ...cap A_n-1^c cap A_n)$










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    DeMorgan's Laws. After Augustus DeMorgan
    – DanielWainfleet
    Sep 2 at 9:18














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The application of De Morgan law in the field of set theory generate this equality, but i'm not able to understand it. Can you help me ? Thanks for your time



$bigcup A_n=bigcup (A_1^ccap ...cap A_n-1^c cap A_n)$










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 1




    DeMorgan's Laws. After Augustus DeMorgan
    – DanielWainfleet
    Sep 2 at 9:18












up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











The application of De Morgan law in the field of set theory generate this equality, but i'm not able to understand it. Can you help me ? Thanks for your time



$bigcup A_n=bigcup (A_1^ccap ...cap A_n-1^c cap A_n)$










share|cite|improve this question















The application of De Morgan law in the field of set theory generate this equality, but i'm not able to understand it. Can you help me ? Thanks for your time



$bigcup A_n=bigcup (A_1^ccap ...cap A_n-1^c cap A_n)$







elementary-set-theory






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edited Sep 2 at 12:33









Andrés E. Caicedo

63.4k7154238




63.4k7154238










asked Sep 2 at 8:12









Koinos

757




757







  • 1




    DeMorgan's Laws. After Augustus DeMorgan
    – DanielWainfleet
    Sep 2 at 9:18












  • 1




    DeMorgan's Laws. After Augustus DeMorgan
    – DanielWainfleet
    Sep 2 at 9:18







1




1




DeMorgan's Laws. After Augustus DeMorgan
– DanielWainfleet
Sep 2 at 9:18




DeMorgan's Laws. After Augustus DeMorgan
– DanielWainfleet
Sep 2 at 9:18










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote













I think you may actually be thinking of $cup A_n=(A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c)^c$.



An element is in the left hand side if and only if it is in one of the $A_i$. Now let us look at $A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c$. An element is in this if and only if it is not in $A_1$ and not in $A_2$ and not in any of the $A_i$. So the element is in $(A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c)^c$ if and only if it is in one of the $A_i$ and that is exactly the same as the condition of being in the left hand side. This shows that the two sets have the same elements and so they are equal.



Looking at your comment, you are right, this does work. Let us imagine that all of the $A_i$ are empty except the first three. Then your expression gives $A_1 cup A_2 cup A_3 = A_1 cup (A_1^c cap A_2) cup (A_1^c cap A_2^c cap A_3)$. What this does is write the union on the LHS as a disjoint union. An element in the LHS is in $A_1$, $A_2$ or $A_3$. If it was in $A_1$ then it will be captured in the first term of the union on the RHS. If it is in $A_2$ but not $A_1$, it will be captured in the second term of the RHS. If it had been in $A_1$ then it would have been captured in the first term (of the RHS). If it is in $A_3$ but was not in $A_1$ or $A_2$ then it will be captured in the third term of the union on the RHS. So we have shown that the LHS is a subset of the RHS (every element of the LHS is in the RHS). It is easy to see that the RHS is a subset of the LHS (everything in the LHS must be in the RHS because each term in the LHS union is a superset of the corresponding term in the union on the RHS). So the two sets are equal. This method clearly generalises to situations when more (or all) of the $A_i$ are non-empty.



This explains why the identity works. There will be a mechanical proof from the De Morgan laws. I'll keep thinking about that but it may just mirror this reasoning.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • No, i found precisely this
    – Koinos
    Sep 2 at 9:12







  • 1




    You're right; this does work, I've amended my answer to reflect that.
    – Simon Terrington
    Sep 2 at 10:37










  • Hi @SimonTerrington, maybe have misread the notation but what happens in the (albeit rather trivial) case where for example $forall n,A_n=A_1≠∅$ then $LHS=A_1$ but $RHS=∅$ ? just wondering if any conditions on the sets or it's claimed in full generality. On the face of it strikes me cannot be true if all are equal but might be barking up wrong tree!
    – Mehness
    Sep 2 at 10:51






  • 1




    OK so this is a good point, but if you look at this last term within the intersection on the RHS, it is not complemented so for the term in which $n=1$ (on the RHS counter) then we would have $A_1$. So the LHS and RHS would both be equal to $A_1$ in this case.
    – Simon Terrington
    Sep 2 at 10:56











  • yep fair enough! :)
    – Mehness
    Sep 2 at 11:00

















up vote
0
down vote













So we want to see $$bigcup_n in mathbbN A_n = bigcup_n in mathbbN left(A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n-1^c cap A_nright)$$



where $mathbbN$ starts at $n=1$. The first term on the right is just $A_1$, the second $A_1^c cup A_2$ etc.



If $x$ is in the right hand side it is in some set of the form $A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n-1^c cap A_n subseteq A_n$ so then it's certainly in the left hand side.



If $x$ is in the left hand side, then $x in A_n$ for some $n in mathbbN$, and let $n_0 =min n: x in A_n$ which is well-defined as $mathbbN$ has a well-ordering.
Then for all $i=1, ldots, n_0 - 1$ we know that $x notin A_i$ (or we would contradict the minimality of $n_0$; the statement is voidly true if $n_0$ happens to be $1$) Hence
$ x in A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n_0 - 1^c cap A_n_0$ and so $x$ is in the right hand side.



This is not an application of DeMorgan, the well-orderedness of the index set is crucial.






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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
    2






    active

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    active

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    active

    oldest

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    up vote
    1
    down vote













    I think you may actually be thinking of $cup A_n=(A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c)^c$.



    An element is in the left hand side if and only if it is in one of the $A_i$. Now let us look at $A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c$. An element is in this if and only if it is not in $A_1$ and not in $A_2$ and not in any of the $A_i$. So the element is in $(A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c)^c$ if and only if it is in one of the $A_i$ and that is exactly the same as the condition of being in the left hand side. This shows that the two sets have the same elements and so they are equal.



    Looking at your comment, you are right, this does work. Let us imagine that all of the $A_i$ are empty except the first three. Then your expression gives $A_1 cup A_2 cup A_3 = A_1 cup (A_1^c cap A_2) cup (A_1^c cap A_2^c cap A_3)$. What this does is write the union on the LHS as a disjoint union. An element in the LHS is in $A_1$, $A_2$ or $A_3$. If it was in $A_1$ then it will be captured in the first term of the union on the RHS. If it is in $A_2$ but not $A_1$, it will be captured in the second term of the RHS. If it had been in $A_1$ then it would have been captured in the first term (of the RHS). If it is in $A_3$ but was not in $A_1$ or $A_2$ then it will be captured in the third term of the union on the RHS. So we have shown that the LHS is a subset of the RHS (every element of the LHS is in the RHS). It is easy to see that the RHS is a subset of the LHS (everything in the LHS must be in the RHS because each term in the LHS union is a superset of the corresponding term in the union on the RHS). So the two sets are equal. This method clearly generalises to situations when more (or all) of the $A_i$ are non-empty.



    This explains why the identity works. There will be a mechanical proof from the De Morgan laws. I'll keep thinking about that but it may just mirror this reasoning.






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • No, i found precisely this
      – Koinos
      Sep 2 at 9:12







    • 1




      You're right; this does work, I've amended my answer to reflect that.
      – Simon Terrington
      Sep 2 at 10:37










    • Hi @SimonTerrington, maybe have misread the notation but what happens in the (albeit rather trivial) case where for example $forall n,A_n=A_1≠∅$ then $LHS=A_1$ but $RHS=∅$ ? just wondering if any conditions on the sets or it's claimed in full generality. On the face of it strikes me cannot be true if all are equal but might be barking up wrong tree!
      – Mehness
      Sep 2 at 10:51






    • 1




      OK so this is a good point, but if you look at this last term within the intersection on the RHS, it is not complemented so for the term in which $n=1$ (on the RHS counter) then we would have $A_1$. So the LHS and RHS would both be equal to $A_1$ in this case.
      – Simon Terrington
      Sep 2 at 10:56











    • yep fair enough! :)
      – Mehness
      Sep 2 at 11:00














    up vote
    1
    down vote













    I think you may actually be thinking of $cup A_n=(A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c)^c$.



    An element is in the left hand side if and only if it is in one of the $A_i$. Now let us look at $A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c$. An element is in this if and only if it is not in $A_1$ and not in $A_2$ and not in any of the $A_i$. So the element is in $(A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c)^c$ if and only if it is in one of the $A_i$ and that is exactly the same as the condition of being in the left hand side. This shows that the two sets have the same elements and so they are equal.



    Looking at your comment, you are right, this does work. Let us imagine that all of the $A_i$ are empty except the first three. Then your expression gives $A_1 cup A_2 cup A_3 = A_1 cup (A_1^c cap A_2) cup (A_1^c cap A_2^c cap A_3)$. What this does is write the union on the LHS as a disjoint union. An element in the LHS is in $A_1$, $A_2$ or $A_3$. If it was in $A_1$ then it will be captured in the first term of the union on the RHS. If it is in $A_2$ but not $A_1$, it will be captured in the second term of the RHS. If it had been in $A_1$ then it would have been captured in the first term (of the RHS). If it is in $A_3$ but was not in $A_1$ or $A_2$ then it will be captured in the third term of the union on the RHS. So we have shown that the LHS is a subset of the RHS (every element of the LHS is in the RHS). It is easy to see that the RHS is a subset of the LHS (everything in the LHS must be in the RHS because each term in the LHS union is a superset of the corresponding term in the union on the RHS). So the two sets are equal. This method clearly generalises to situations when more (or all) of the $A_i$ are non-empty.



    This explains why the identity works. There will be a mechanical proof from the De Morgan laws. I'll keep thinking about that but it may just mirror this reasoning.






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • No, i found precisely this
      – Koinos
      Sep 2 at 9:12







    • 1




      You're right; this does work, I've amended my answer to reflect that.
      – Simon Terrington
      Sep 2 at 10:37










    • Hi @SimonTerrington, maybe have misread the notation but what happens in the (albeit rather trivial) case where for example $forall n,A_n=A_1≠∅$ then $LHS=A_1$ but $RHS=∅$ ? just wondering if any conditions on the sets or it's claimed in full generality. On the face of it strikes me cannot be true if all are equal but might be barking up wrong tree!
      – Mehness
      Sep 2 at 10:51






    • 1




      OK so this is a good point, but if you look at this last term within the intersection on the RHS, it is not complemented so for the term in which $n=1$ (on the RHS counter) then we would have $A_1$. So the LHS and RHS would both be equal to $A_1$ in this case.
      – Simon Terrington
      Sep 2 at 10:56











    • yep fair enough! :)
      – Mehness
      Sep 2 at 11:00












    up vote
    1
    down vote










    up vote
    1
    down vote









    I think you may actually be thinking of $cup A_n=(A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c)^c$.



    An element is in the left hand side if and only if it is in one of the $A_i$. Now let us look at $A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c$. An element is in this if and only if it is not in $A_1$ and not in $A_2$ and not in any of the $A_i$. So the element is in $(A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c)^c$ if and only if it is in one of the $A_i$ and that is exactly the same as the condition of being in the left hand side. This shows that the two sets have the same elements and so they are equal.



    Looking at your comment, you are right, this does work. Let us imagine that all of the $A_i$ are empty except the first three. Then your expression gives $A_1 cup A_2 cup A_3 = A_1 cup (A_1^c cap A_2) cup (A_1^c cap A_2^c cap A_3)$. What this does is write the union on the LHS as a disjoint union. An element in the LHS is in $A_1$, $A_2$ or $A_3$. If it was in $A_1$ then it will be captured in the first term of the union on the RHS. If it is in $A_2$ but not $A_1$, it will be captured in the second term of the RHS. If it had been in $A_1$ then it would have been captured in the first term (of the RHS). If it is in $A_3$ but was not in $A_1$ or $A_2$ then it will be captured in the third term of the union on the RHS. So we have shown that the LHS is a subset of the RHS (every element of the LHS is in the RHS). It is easy to see that the RHS is a subset of the LHS (everything in the LHS must be in the RHS because each term in the LHS union is a superset of the corresponding term in the union on the RHS). So the two sets are equal. This method clearly generalises to situations when more (or all) of the $A_i$ are non-empty.



    This explains why the identity works. There will be a mechanical proof from the De Morgan laws. I'll keep thinking about that but it may just mirror this reasoning.






    share|cite|improve this answer














    I think you may actually be thinking of $cup A_n=(A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c)^c$.



    An element is in the left hand side if and only if it is in one of the $A_i$. Now let us look at $A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c$. An element is in this if and only if it is not in $A_1$ and not in $A_2$ and not in any of the $A_i$. So the element is in $(A_1^c cap ... cap A_n^c)^c$ if and only if it is in one of the $A_i$ and that is exactly the same as the condition of being in the left hand side. This shows that the two sets have the same elements and so they are equal.



    Looking at your comment, you are right, this does work. Let us imagine that all of the $A_i$ are empty except the first three. Then your expression gives $A_1 cup A_2 cup A_3 = A_1 cup (A_1^c cap A_2) cup (A_1^c cap A_2^c cap A_3)$. What this does is write the union on the LHS as a disjoint union. An element in the LHS is in $A_1$, $A_2$ or $A_3$. If it was in $A_1$ then it will be captured in the first term of the union on the RHS. If it is in $A_2$ but not $A_1$, it will be captured in the second term of the RHS. If it had been in $A_1$ then it would have been captured in the first term (of the RHS). If it is in $A_3$ but was not in $A_1$ or $A_2$ then it will be captured in the third term of the union on the RHS. So we have shown that the LHS is a subset of the RHS (every element of the LHS is in the RHS). It is easy to see that the RHS is a subset of the LHS (everything in the LHS must be in the RHS because each term in the LHS union is a superset of the corresponding term in the union on the RHS). So the two sets are equal. This method clearly generalises to situations when more (or all) of the $A_i$ are non-empty.



    This explains why the identity works. There will be a mechanical proof from the De Morgan laws. I'll keep thinking about that but it may just mirror this reasoning.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Sep 2 at 10:50

























    answered Sep 2 at 8:39









    Simon Terrington

    41526




    41526











    • No, i found precisely this
      – Koinos
      Sep 2 at 9:12







    • 1




      You're right; this does work, I've amended my answer to reflect that.
      – Simon Terrington
      Sep 2 at 10:37










    • Hi @SimonTerrington, maybe have misread the notation but what happens in the (albeit rather trivial) case where for example $forall n,A_n=A_1≠∅$ then $LHS=A_1$ but $RHS=∅$ ? just wondering if any conditions on the sets or it's claimed in full generality. On the face of it strikes me cannot be true if all are equal but might be barking up wrong tree!
      – Mehness
      Sep 2 at 10:51






    • 1




      OK so this is a good point, but if you look at this last term within the intersection on the RHS, it is not complemented so for the term in which $n=1$ (on the RHS counter) then we would have $A_1$. So the LHS and RHS would both be equal to $A_1$ in this case.
      – Simon Terrington
      Sep 2 at 10:56











    • yep fair enough! :)
      – Mehness
      Sep 2 at 11:00
















    • No, i found precisely this
      – Koinos
      Sep 2 at 9:12







    • 1




      You're right; this does work, I've amended my answer to reflect that.
      – Simon Terrington
      Sep 2 at 10:37










    • Hi @SimonTerrington, maybe have misread the notation but what happens in the (albeit rather trivial) case where for example $forall n,A_n=A_1≠∅$ then $LHS=A_1$ but $RHS=∅$ ? just wondering if any conditions on the sets or it's claimed in full generality. On the face of it strikes me cannot be true if all are equal but might be barking up wrong tree!
      – Mehness
      Sep 2 at 10:51






    • 1




      OK so this is a good point, but if you look at this last term within the intersection on the RHS, it is not complemented so for the term in which $n=1$ (on the RHS counter) then we would have $A_1$. So the LHS and RHS would both be equal to $A_1$ in this case.
      – Simon Terrington
      Sep 2 at 10:56











    • yep fair enough! :)
      – Mehness
      Sep 2 at 11:00















    No, i found precisely this
    – Koinos
    Sep 2 at 9:12





    No, i found precisely this
    – Koinos
    Sep 2 at 9:12





    1




    1




    You're right; this does work, I've amended my answer to reflect that.
    – Simon Terrington
    Sep 2 at 10:37




    You're right; this does work, I've amended my answer to reflect that.
    – Simon Terrington
    Sep 2 at 10:37












    Hi @SimonTerrington, maybe have misread the notation but what happens in the (albeit rather trivial) case where for example $forall n,A_n=A_1≠∅$ then $LHS=A_1$ but $RHS=∅$ ? just wondering if any conditions on the sets or it's claimed in full generality. On the face of it strikes me cannot be true if all are equal but might be barking up wrong tree!
    – Mehness
    Sep 2 at 10:51




    Hi @SimonTerrington, maybe have misread the notation but what happens in the (albeit rather trivial) case where for example $forall n,A_n=A_1≠∅$ then $LHS=A_1$ but $RHS=∅$ ? just wondering if any conditions on the sets or it's claimed in full generality. On the face of it strikes me cannot be true if all are equal but might be barking up wrong tree!
    – Mehness
    Sep 2 at 10:51




    1




    1




    OK so this is a good point, but if you look at this last term within the intersection on the RHS, it is not complemented so for the term in which $n=1$ (on the RHS counter) then we would have $A_1$. So the LHS and RHS would both be equal to $A_1$ in this case.
    – Simon Terrington
    Sep 2 at 10:56





    OK so this is a good point, but if you look at this last term within the intersection on the RHS, it is not complemented so for the term in which $n=1$ (on the RHS counter) then we would have $A_1$. So the LHS and RHS would both be equal to $A_1$ in this case.
    – Simon Terrington
    Sep 2 at 10:56













    yep fair enough! :)
    – Mehness
    Sep 2 at 11:00




    yep fair enough! :)
    – Mehness
    Sep 2 at 11:00










    up vote
    0
    down vote













    So we want to see $$bigcup_n in mathbbN A_n = bigcup_n in mathbbN left(A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n-1^c cap A_nright)$$



    where $mathbbN$ starts at $n=1$. The first term on the right is just $A_1$, the second $A_1^c cup A_2$ etc.



    If $x$ is in the right hand side it is in some set of the form $A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n-1^c cap A_n subseteq A_n$ so then it's certainly in the left hand side.



    If $x$ is in the left hand side, then $x in A_n$ for some $n in mathbbN$, and let $n_0 =min n: x in A_n$ which is well-defined as $mathbbN$ has a well-ordering.
    Then for all $i=1, ldots, n_0 - 1$ we know that $x notin A_i$ (or we would contradict the minimality of $n_0$; the statement is voidly true if $n_0$ happens to be $1$) Hence
    $ x in A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n_0 - 1^c cap A_n_0$ and so $x$ is in the right hand side.



    This is not an application of DeMorgan, the well-orderedness of the index set is crucial.






    share|cite|improve this answer
























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      So we want to see $$bigcup_n in mathbbN A_n = bigcup_n in mathbbN left(A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n-1^c cap A_nright)$$



      where $mathbbN$ starts at $n=1$. The first term on the right is just $A_1$, the second $A_1^c cup A_2$ etc.



      If $x$ is in the right hand side it is in some set of the form $A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n-1^c cap A_n subseteq A_n$ so then it's certainly in the left hand side.



      If $x$ is in the left hand side, then $x in A_n$ for some $n in mathbbN$, and let $n_0 =min n: x in A_n$ which is well-defined as $mathbbN$ has a well-ordering.
      Then for all $i=1, ldots, n_0 - 1$ we know that $x notin A_i$ (or we would contradict the minimality of $n_0$; the statement is voidly true if $n_0$ happens to be $1$) Hence
      $ x in A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n_0 - 1^c cap A_n_0$ and so $x$ is in the right hand side.



      This is not an application of DeMorgan, the well-orderedness of the index set is crucial.






      share|cite|improve this answer






















        up vote
        0
        down vote










        up vote
        0
        down vote









        So we want to see $$bigcup_n in mathbbN A_n = bigcup_n in mathbbN left(A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n-1^c cap A_nright)$$



        where $mathbbN$ starts at $n=1$. The first term on the right is just $A_1$, the second $A_1^c cup A_2$ etc.



        If $x$ is in the right hand side it is in some set of the form $A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n-1^c cap A_n subseteq A_n$ so then it's certainly in the left hand side.



        If $x$ is in the left hand side, then $x in A_n$ for some $n in mathbbN$, and let $n_0 =min n: x in A_n$ which is well-defined as $mathbbN$ has a well-ordering.
        Then for all $i=1, ldots, n_0 - 1$ we know that $x notin A_i$ (or we would contradict the minimality of $n_0$; the statement is voidly true if $n_0$ happens to be $1$) Hence
        $ x in A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n_0 - 1^c cap A_n_0$ and so $x$ is in the right hand side.



        This is not an application of DeMorgan, the well-orderedness of the index set is crucial.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        So we want to see $$bigcup_n in mathbbN A_n = bigcup_n in mathbbN left(A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n-1^c cap A_nright)$$



        where $mathbbN$ starts at $n=1$. The first term on the right is just $A_1$, the second $A_1^c cup A_2$ etc.



        If $x$ is in the right hand side it is in some set of the form $A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n-1^c cap A_n subseteq A_n$ so then it's certainly in the left hand side.



        If $x$ is in the left hand side, then $x in A_n$ for some $n in mathbbN$, and let $n_0 =min n: x in A_n$ which is well-defined as $mathbbN$ has a well-ordering.
        Then for all $i=1, ldots, n_0 - 1$ we know that $x notin A_i$ (or we would contradict the minimality of $n_0$; the statement is voidly true if $n_0$ happens to be $1$) Hence
        $ x in A_1^c cap A_2^c ldots A_n_0 - 1^c cap A_n_0$ and so $x$ is in the right hand side.



        This is not an application of DeMorgan, the well-orderedness of the index set is crucial.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Sep 2 at 19:10









        Henno Brandsma

        93.3k342101




        93.3k342101



























             

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