Product of independent random variables

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The following is a classic example that pairwise independent does not necessarily imply mutually independent:
Let $X_1$ and $X_2$ be independent r.v.'s with distributions $$P(X_i=1)=P(X_i=-1)=frac12quadtag*$$ for $i=1,2.$ Let $Z=X_1X_2$. Then $X_1,X_2,Z$ are pairwise independent but they are not mutually independent.
In this case $X_1$ and $Z=X_1X_2$ are independent. Now let $(X_i)_i=1^infty$ be a family of independent variables which satisfy $(*)$ and let $Z_i=X_1X_2cdots X_i$. How can I show that $(Z_i)_i=1^m$ are independent for any finite $minBbb N$?
When $m=2$, it is done. If one needs induction, then a key step is to show that the $n-1$ dimensional random vector $(Z_1,Z_2,dots,Z_n-1)$ and $Z_n$ are independent. This where I have no idea how to go on after writing down the definition.
probability-theory random-variables independence
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The following is a classic example that pairwise independent does not necessarily imply mutually independent:
Let $X_1$ and $X_2$ be independent r.v.'s with distributions $$P(X_i=1)=P(X_i=-1)=frac12quadtag*$$ for $i=1,2.$ Let $Z=X_1X_2$. Then $X_1,X_2,Z$ are pairwise independent but they are not mutually independent.
In this case $X_1$ and $Z=X_1X_2$ are independent. Now let $(X_i)_i=1^infty$ be a family of independent variables which satisfy $(*)$ and let $Z_i=X_1X_2cdots X_i$. How can I show that $(Z_i)_i=1^m$ are independent for any finite $minBbb N$?
When $m=2$, it is done. If one needs induction, then a key step is to show that the $n-1$ dimensional random vector $(Z_1,Z_2,dots,Z_n-1)$ and $Z_n$ are independent. This where I have no idea how to go on after writing down the definition.
probability-theory random-variables independence
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
The following is a classic example that pairwise independent does not necessarily imply mutually independent:
Let $X_1$ and $X_2$ be independent r.v.'s with distributions $$P(X_i=1)=P(X_i=-1)=frac12quadtag*$$ for $i=1,2.$ Let $Z=X_1X_2$. Then $X_1,X_2,Z$ are pairwise independent but they are not mutually independent.
In this case $X_1$ and $Z=X_1X_2$ are independent. Now let $(X_i)_i=1^infty$ be a family of independent variables which satisfy $(*)$ and let $Z_i=X_1X_2cdots X_i$. How can I show that $(Z_i)_i=1^m$ are independent for any finite $minBbb N$?
When $m=2$, it is done. If one needs induction, then a key step is to show that the $n-1$ dimensional random vector $(Z_1,Z_2,dots,Z_n-1)$ and $Z_n$ are independent. This where I have no idea how to go on after writing down the definition.
probability-theory random-variables independence
The following is a classic example that pairwise independent does not necessarily imply mutually independent:
Let $X_1$ and $X_2$ be independent r.v.'s with distributions $$P(X_i=1)=P(X_i=-1)=frac12quadtag*$$ for $i=1,2.$ Let $Z=X_1X_2$. Then $X_1,X_2,Z$ are pairwise independent but they are not mutually independent.
In this case $X_1$ and $Z=X_1X_2$ are independent. Now let $(X_i)_i=1^infty$ be a family of independent variables which satisfy $(*)$ and let $Z_i=X_1X_2cdots X_i$. How can I show that $(Z_i)_i=1^m$ are independent for any finite $minBbb N$?
When $m=2$, it is done. If one needs induction, then a key step is to show that the $n-1$ dimensional random vector $(Z_1,Z_2,dots,Z_n-1)$ and $Z_n$ are independent. This where I have no idea how to go on after writing down the definition.
probability-theory random-variables independence
edited Aug 20 at 4:41
BCLC
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asked Oct 17 '12 at 14:58
Jack
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26.6k1578192
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2 Answers
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Let $epsilon_i=-1$ or $1$. We have
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)+Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=1right)P(X_n=1),,$$
hence
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_iright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-epsilon_nright)+frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=epsilon_nright).$$
We just deal with the case $epsilon_n-1=epsilon_n$. Then
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12prod_j=1^n-1Pleft(Z_j=varepsilon_jright),$$
which is what we want. The other case is similar.
But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:37
I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 15:41
What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:45
Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:51
I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 19:45
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
For example, $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3)$ (because $Z_4 = X_4 Z_3 $, with $X_4$ independent from $Z_3$; hence, if $Z_3$ is known, $Z_2$, $Z_1$ do not give more information; in other words, $Z_i$ is a first-order Markov sequence)
But, say $P(Z_4 = 1| Z_3=1)= P(X_4=1) =frac12 $ and the same happens in all cases, hence $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3) = P(Z_4) = $ and $Z_4$ is independent of previous values; applying induction, you get the independence of the full set $(Z_i)_i=1^m$.
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Let $epsilon_i=-1$ or $1$. We have
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)+Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=1right)P(X_n=1),,$$
hence
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_iright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-epsilon_nright)+frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=epsilon_nright).$$
We just deal with the case $epsilon_n-1=epsilon_n$. Then
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12prod_j=1^n-1Pleft(Z_j=varepsilon_jright),$$
which is what we want. The other case is similar.
But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:37
I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 15:41
What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:45
Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:51
I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 19:45
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Let $epsilon_i=-1$ or $1$. We have
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)+Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=1right)P(X_n=1),,$$
hence
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_iright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-epsilon_nright)+frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=epsilon_nright).$$
We just deal with the case $epsilon_n-1=epsilon_n$. Then
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12prod_j=1^n-1Pleft(Z_j=varepsilon_jright),$$
which is what we want. The other case is similar.
But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:37
I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 15:41
What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:45
Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:51
I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 19:45
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Let $epsilon_i=-1$ or $1$. We have
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)+Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=1right)P(X_n=1),,$$
hence
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_iright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-epsilon_nright)+frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=epsilon_nright).$$
We just deal with the case $epsilon_n-1=epsilon_n$. Then
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12prod_j=1^n-1Pleft(Z_j=varepsilon_jright),$$
which is what we want. The other case is similar.
Let $epsilon_i=-1$ or $1$. We have
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)+Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=1right)P(X_n=1),,$$
hence
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_iright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-epsilon_nright)+frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=epsilon_nright).$$
We just deal with the case $epsilon_n-1=epsilon_n$. Then
$$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12prod_j=1^n-1Pleft(Z_j=varepsilon_jright),$$
which is what we want. The other case is similar.
edited Oct 17 '12 at 19:44
answered Oct 17 '12 at 15:12
Davide Giraudo
121k15147250
121k15147250
But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:37
I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 15:41
What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:45
Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:51
I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 19:45
 |Â
show 2 more comments
But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:37
I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 15:41
What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:45
Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:51
I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 19:45
But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:37
But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:37
I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 15:41
I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 15:41
What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:45
What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:45
Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:51
Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
â Jack
Oct 17 '12 at 15:51
I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 19:45
I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
â Davide Giraudo
Oct 17 '12 at 19:45
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
For example, $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3)$ (because $Z_4 = X_4 Z_3 $, with $X_4$ independent from $Z_3$; hence, if $Z_3$ is known, $Z_2$, $Z_1$ do not give more information; in other words, $Z_i$ is a first-order Markov sequence)
But, say $P(Z_4 = 1| Z_3=1)= P(X_4=1) =frac12 $ and the same happens in all cases, hence $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3) = P(Z_4) = $ and $Z_4$ is independent of previous values; applying induction, you get the independence of the full set $(Z_i)_i=1^m$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
For example, $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3)$ (because $Z_4 = X_4 Z_3 $, with $X_4$ independent from $Z_3$; hence, if $Z_3$ is known, $Z_2$, $Z_1$ do not give more information; in other words, $Z_i$ is a first-order Markov sequence)
But, say $P(Z_4 = 1| Z_3=1)= P(X_4=1) =frac12 $ and the same happens in all cases, hence $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3) = P(Z_4) = $ and $Z_4$ is independent of previous values; applying induction, you get the independence of the full set $(Z_i)_i=1^m$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
For example, $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3)$ (because $Z_4 = X_4 Z_3 $, with $X_4$ independent from $Z_3$; hence, if $Z_3$ is known, $Z_2$, $Z_1$ do not give more information; in other words, $Z_i$ is a first-order Markov sequence)
But, say $P(Z_4 = 1| Z_3=1)= P(X_4=1) =frac12 $ and the same happens in all cases, hence $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3) = P(Z_4) = $ and $Z_4$ is independent of previous values; applying induction, you get the independence of the full set $(Z_i)_i=1^m$.
For example, $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3)$ (because $Z_4 = X_4 Z_3 $, with $X_4$ independent from $Z_3$; hence, if $Z_3$ is known, $Z_2$, $Z_1$ do not give more information; in other words, $Z_i$ is a first-order Markov sequence)
But, say $P(Z_4 = 1| Z_3=1)= P(X_4=1) =frac12 $ and the same happens in all cases, hence $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3) = P(Z_4) = $ and $Z_4$ is independent of previous values; applying induction, you get the independence of the full set $(Z_i)_i=1^m$.
edited Oct 17 '12 at 16:22
answered Oct 17 '12 at 15:12
leonbloy
38.2k644104
38.2k644104
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