Product of independent random variables

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The following is a classic example that pairwise independent does not necessarily imply mutually independent:




Let $X_1$ and $X_2$ be independent r.v.'s with distributions $$P(X_i=1)=P(X_i=-1)=frac12quadtag*$$ for $i=1,2.$ Let $Z=X_1X_2$. Then $X_1,X_2,Z$ are pairwise independent but they are not mutually independent.




In this case $X_1$ and $Z=X_1X_2$ are independent. Now let $(X_i)_i=1^infty$ be a family of independent variables which satisfy $(*)$ and let $Z_i=X_1X_2cdots X_i$. How can I show that $(Z_i)_i=1^m$ are independent for any finite $minBbb N$?




When $m=2$, it is done. If one needs induction, then a key step is to show that the $n-1$ dimensional random vector $(Z_1,Z_2,dots,Z_n-1)$ and $Z_n$ are independent. This where I have no idea how to go on after writing down the definition.







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    up vote
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    down vote

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    The following is a classic example that pairwise independent does not necessarily imply mutually independent:




    Let $X_1$ and $X_2$ be independent r.v.'s with distributions $$P(X_i=1)=P(X_i=-1)=frac12quadtag*$$ for $i=1,2.$ Let $Z=X_1X_2$. Then $X_1,X_2,Z$ are pairwise independent but they are not mutually independent.




    In this case $X_1$ and $Z=X_1X_2$ are independent. Now let $(X_i)_i=1^infty$ be a family of independent variables which satisfy $(*)$ and let $Z_i=X_1X_2cdots X_i$. How can I show that $(Z_i)_i=1^m$ are independent for any finite $minBbb N$?




    When $m=2$, it is done. If one needs induction, then a key step is to show that the $n-1$ dimensional random vector $(Z_1,Z_2,dots,Z_n-1)$ and $Z_n$ are independent. This where I have no idea how to go on after writing down the definition.







    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
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      down vote

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      The following is a classic example that pairwise independent does not necessarily imply mutually independent:




      Let $X_1$ and $X_2$ be independent r.v.'s with distributions $$P(X_i=1)=P(X_i=-1)=frac12quadtag*$$ for $i=1,2.$ Let $Z=X_1X_2$. Then $X_1,X_2,Z$ are pairwise independent but they are not mutually independent.




      In this case $X_1$ and $Z=X_1X_2$ are independent. Now let $(X_i)_i=1^infty$ be a family of independent variables which satisfy $(*)$ and let $Z_i=X_1X_2cdots X_i$. How can I show that $(Z_i)_i=1^m$ are independent for any finite $minBbb N$?




      When $m=2$, it is done. If one needs induction, then a key step is to show that the $n-1$ dimensional random vector $(Z_1,Z_2,dots,Z_n-1)$ and $Z_n$ are independent. This where I have no idea how to go on after writing down the definition.







      share|cite|improve this question














      The following is a classic example that pairwise independent does not necessarily imply mutually independent:




      Let $X_1$ and $X_2$ be independent r.v.'s with distributions $$P(X_i=1)=P(X_i=-1)=frac12quadtag*$$ for $i=1,2.$ Let $Z=X_1X_2$. Then $X_1,X_2,Z$ are pairwise independent but they are not mutually independent.




      In this case $X_1$ and $Z=X_1X_2$ are independent. Now let $(X_i)_i=1^infty$ be a family of independent variables which satisfy $(*)$ and let $Z_i=X_1X_2cdots X_i$. How can I show that $(Z_i)_i=1^m$ are independent for any finite $minBbb N$?




      When $m=2$, it is done. If one needs induction, then a key step is to show that the $n-1$ dimensional random vector $(Z_1,Z_2,dots,Z_n-1)$ and $Z_n$ are independent. This where I have no idea how to go on after writing down the definition.









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      edited Aug 20 at 4:41









      BCLC

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      asked Oct 17 '12 at 14:58









      Jack

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          2 Answers
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          Let $epsilon_i=-1$ or $1$. We have
          $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)+Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=1right)P(X_n=1),,$$
          hence
          $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_iright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-epsilon_nright)+frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=epsilon_nright).$$
          We just deal with the case $epsilon_n-1=epsilon_n$. Then
          $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12prod_j=1^n-1Pleft(Z_j=varepsilon_jright),$$
          which is what we want. The other case is similar.






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          • But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
            – Jack
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:37











          • I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
            – Davide Giraudo
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:41











          • What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
            – Jack
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:45











          • Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
            – Jack
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:51










          • I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
            – Davide Giraudo
            Oct 17 '12 at 19:45

















          up vote
          1
          down vote













          For example, $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3)$ (because $Z_4 = X_4 Z_3 $, with $X_4$ independent from $Z_3$; hence, if $Z_3$ is known, $Z_2$, $Z_1$ do not give more information; in other words, $Z_i$ is a first-order Markov sequence)



          But, say $P(Z_4 = 1| Z_3=1)= P(X_4=1) =frac12 $ and the same happens in all cases, hence $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3) = P(Z_4) = $ and $Z_4$ is independent of previous values; applying induction, you get the independence of the full set $(Z_i)_i=1^m$.






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            2 Answers
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            active

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            2 Answers
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            up vote
            2
            down vote



            accepted










            Let $epsilon_i=-1$ or $1$. We have
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)+Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=1right)P(X_n=1),,$$
            hence
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_iright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-epsilon_nright)+frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=epsilon_nright).$$
            We just deal with the case $epsilon_n-1=epsilon_n$. Then
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12prod_j=1^n-1Pleft(Z_j=varepsilon_jright),$$
            which is what we want. The other case is similar.






            share|cite|improve this answer






















            • But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:37











            • I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
              – Davide Giraudo
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:41











            • What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:45











            • Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:51










            • I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
              – Davide Giraudo
              Oct 17 '12 at 19:45














            up vote
            2
            down vote



            accepted










            Let $epsilon_i=-1$ or $1$. We have
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)+Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=1right)P(X_n=1),,$$
            hence
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_iright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-epsilon_nright)+frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=epsilon_nright).$$
            We just deal with the case $epsilon_n-1=epsilon_n$. Then
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12prod_j=1^n-1Pleft(Z_j=varepsilon_jright),$$
            which is what we want. The other case is similar.






            share|cite|improve this answer






















            • But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:37











            • I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
              – Davide Giraudo
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:41











            • What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:45











            • Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:51










            • I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
              – Davide Giraudo
              Oct 17 '12 at 19:45












            up vote
            2
            down vote



            accepted







            up vote
            2
            down vote



            accepted






            Let $epsilon_i=-1$ or $1$. We have
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)+Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=1right)P(X_n=1),,$$
            hence
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_iright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-epsilon_nright)+frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=epsilon_nright).$$
            We just deal with the case $epsilon_n-1=epsilon_n$. Then
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12prod_j=1^n-1Pleft(Z_j=varepsilon_jright),$$
            which is what we want. The other case is similar.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            Let $epsilon_i=-1$ or $1$. We have
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)+Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=1right)P(X_n=1),,$$
            hence
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_iright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-epsilon_nright)+frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=epsilon_nright).$$
            We just deal with the case $epsilon_n-1=epsilon_n$. Then
            $$Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_jright)=frac 12prod_j=1^n-1Pleft(Z_j=varepsilon_jright),$$
            which is what we want. The other case is similar.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Oct 17 '12 at 19:44

























            answered Oct 17 '12 at 15:12









            Davide Giraudo

            121k15147250




            121k15147250











            • But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:37











            • I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
              – Davide Giraudo
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:41











            • What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:45











            • Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:51










            • I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
              – Davide Giraudo
              Oct 17 '12 at 19:45
















            • But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:37











            • I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
              – Davide Giraudo
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:41











            • What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:45











            • Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
              – Jack
              Oct 17 '12 at 15:51










            • I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
              – Davide Giraudo
              Oct 17 '12 at 19:45















            But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
            – Jack
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:37





            But you've already have $P(X_n=-1)$, how did you come up with $frac 12$?
            – Jack
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:37













            I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
            – Davide Giraudo
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:41





            I don't understand: this probability is $1/2$.
            – Davide Giraudo
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:41













            What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
            – Jack
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:45





            What i'm saying is that $$ Pleft(bigcap_j=1^nZ_j=varepsilon_jmid X_n=-1right)P(X_n=-1)=Pleft(bigcap_j=1^n-1Z_j=varepsilon_icapZ_n-1=-varepsilon_nright).$$ Why do you need $frac 12$?
            – Jack
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:45













            Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
            – Jack
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:51




            Also, why is $varepsilon_i=0,1$ instead of $varepsilon_i=-1,1$?
            – Jack
            Oct 17 '12 at 15:51












            I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
            – Davide Giraudo
            Oct 17 '12 at 19:45




            I go back to the definition of conditional probability, using independence of $X_n$ with respect to $(Y_1,dots,Y_n-1)$.
            – Davide Giraudo
            Oct 17 '12 at 19:45










            up vote
            1
            down vote













            For example, $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3)$ (because $Z_4 = X_4 Z_3 $, with $X_4$ independent from $Z_3$; hence, if $Z_3$ is known, $Z_2$, $Z_1$ do not give more information; in other words, $Z_i$ is a first-order Markov sequence)



            But, say $P(Z_4 = 1| Z_3=1)= P(X_4=1) =frac12 $ and the same happens in all cases, hence $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3) = P(Z_4) = $ and $Z_4$ is independent of previous values; applying induction, you get the independence of the full set $(Z_i)_i=1^m$.






            share|cite|improve this answer


























              up vote
              1
              down vote













              For example, $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3)$ (because $Z_4 = X_4 Z_3 $, with $X_4$ independent from $Z_3$; hence, if $Z_3$ is known, $Z_2$, $Z_1$ do not give more information; in other words, $Z_i$ is a first-order Markov sequence)



              But, say $P(Z_4 = 1| Z_3=1)= P(X_4=1) =frac12 $ and the same happens in all cases, hence $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3) = P(Z_4) = $ and $Z_4$ is independent of previous values; applying induction, you get the independence of the full set $(Z_i)_i=1^m$.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                1
                down vote










                up vote
                1
                down vote









                For example, $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3)$ (because $Z_4 = X_4 Z_3 $, with $X_4$ independent from $Z_3$; hence, if $Z_3$ is known, $Z_2$, $Z_1$ do not give more information; in other words, $Z_i$ is a first-order Markov sequence)



                But, say $P(Z_4 = 1| Z_3=1)= P(X_4=1) =frac12 $ and the same happens in all cases, hence $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3) = P(Z_4) = $ and $Z_4$ is independent of previous values; applying induction, you get the independence of the full set $(Z_i)_i=1^m$.






                share|cite|improve this answer














                For example, $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3)$ (because $Z_4 = X_4 Z_3 $, with $X_4$ independent from $Z_3$; hence, if $Z_3$ is known, $Z_2$, $Z_1$ do not give more information; in other words, $Z_i$ is a first-order Markov sequence)



                But, say $P(Z_4 = 1| Z_3=1)= P(X_4=1) =frac12 $ and the same happens in all cases, hence $P(Z_4 | Z_3 Z_2 Z_1) = P(Z_4 | Z_3) = P(Z_4) = $ and $Z_4$ is independent of previous values; applying induction, you get the independence of the full set $(Z_i)_i=1^m$.







                share|cite|improve this answer














                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer








                edited Oct 17 '12 at 16:22

























                answered Oct 17 '12 at 15:12









                leonbloy

                38.2k644104




                38.2k644104






















                     

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