Show that the inverse function of the identity $textidcolon (C[0,1],lVertcdotrVert_infty)to (C[0,1],lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is not continuous
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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Consider $C[0,1]$, the set of all continuous functions $fcolon [0,1]tomathbbR$, as well as the norms
$$
lVert frVert_infty:=sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert,
$$
$$
lVert frVert_1:=int_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx.
$$
I am a bit lost to show that for the identity map given in the title (which is bijective, continuous and linear), its inverse function is not continuos.
I think one way to show this is to find an example $fin C[0,1]$ with the property:
$$
forall Mgeq 0~exists xin [0,1]:quad sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert>Mint_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx
$$
functional-analysis continuity
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Consider $C[0,1]$, the set of all continuous functions $fcolon [0,1]tomathbbR$, as well as the norms
$$
lVert frVert_infty:=sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert,
$$
$$
lVert frVert_1:=int_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx.
$$
I am a bit lost to show that for the identity map given in the title (which is bijective, continuous and linear), its inverse function is not continuos.
I think one way to show this is to find an example $fin C[0,1]$ with the property:
$$
forall Mgeq 0~exists xin [0,1]:quad sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert>Mint_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx
$$
functional-analysis continuity
are the both spaces Banach spaces?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:11
$(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:14
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Consider $C[0,1]$, the set of all continuous functions $fcolon [0,1]tomathbbR$, as well as the norms
$$
lVert frVert_infty:=sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert,
$$
$$
lVert frVert_1:=int_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx.
$$
I am a bit lost to show that for the identity map given in the title (which is bijective, continuous and linear), its inverse function is not continuos.
I think one way to show this is to find an example $fin C[0,1]$ with the property:
$$
forall Mgeq 0~exists xin [0,1]:quad sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert>Mint_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx
$$
functional-analysis continuity
Consider $C[0,1]$, the set of all continuous functions $fcolon [0,1]tomathbbR$, as well as the norms
$$
lVert frVert_infty:=sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert,
$$
$$
lVert frVert_1:=int_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx.
$$
I am a bit lost to show that for the identity map given in the title (which is bijective, continuous and linear), its inverse function is not continuos.
I think one way to show this is to find an example $fin C[0,1]$ with the property:
$$
forall Mgeq 0~exists xin [0,1]:quad sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert>Mint_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx
$$
functional-analysis continuity
asked Aug 20 at 12:57
Rhjg
295215
295215
are the both spaces Banach spaces?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:11
$(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:14
add a comment |Â
are the both spaces Banach spaces?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:11
$(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:14
are the both spaces Banach spaces?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:11
are the both spaces Banach spaces?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:11
$(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:14
$(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:14
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
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oldest
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up vote
2
down vote
Exactly, your suggestion is the right proof strategy. So you show that the inverse of the unit ball is not contained in any ball.
Let $f_c(x)$ be the function for all $0<c<1$ such that $f_c(x)= begincases frac2c-frac2xc^2 ,, textif ,, xin [0,c] \ 0 ,, textotherwise endcases$.
These are in the unit ball w.r.t the $L^1$ norm, but as $crightarrow 0$, their supremum norm tends to $infty$.
2
This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:20
1
@The_lost I have the same problem.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:21
1
Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
â A. Pongrácz
Aug 20 at 13:27
Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:27
1
@A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:36
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
Why not considering $f_n(x):=x^n$?
Then $lVert f_nrVert_1=frac1n+1to 0$ as $ntoinfty$, while $lVert f_nrVert_infty=1$ for all $ngeq 1$.
Hence, $forall Mgeqslant 0~exists f_nin C[0,1]$ with $n$ large enough such that
$$
lVert textid^-1(f_n)rVert_infty=lVert f_nrVert_infty> MlVert f_nrVert_1.
$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Recall that a linear map is continuous if and only if it is bounded. We're looking at the identity map from $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ to $(C([0, 1], | cdot |_infty)$, meaning that we need to show that no bound $M$ exists for this map. That is, for all $M$, there exists some $f$ in the unit ball of $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ (i.e. $|f|_1 le 1)$ such that $|f|_infty > M$.
Essentially, you need a continuous function that has very large maxima, but whose absolute integral is still $1$. I'd suggest some kind of piecewise linear bump functions. Connect the points $(0, 0)$, $(1/M, M)$, $(2/M, 0)$, $(1, 0)$ into a piecewise linear function. Then, the function is positive, and the integral under it is $1$, but the supremum of the function is $M$.
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Exactly, your suggestion is the right proof strategy. So you show that the inverse of the unit ball is not contained in any ball.
Let $f_c(x)$ be the function for all $0<c<1$ such that $f_c(x)= begincases frac2c-frac2xc^2 ,, textif ,, xin [0,c] \ 0 ,, textotherwise endcases$.
These are in the unit ball w.r.t the $L^1$ norm, but as $crightarrow 0$, their supremum norm tends to $infty$.
2
This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:20
1
@The_lost I have the same problem.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:21
1
Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
â A. Pongrácz
Aug 20 at 13:27
Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:27
1
@A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:36
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
Exactly, your suggestion is the right proof strategy. So you show that the inverse of the unit ball is not contained in any ball.
Let $f_c(x)$ be the function for all $0<c<1$ such that $f_c(x)= begincases frac2c-frac2xc^2 ,, textif ,, xin [0,c] \ 0 ,, textotherwise endcases$.
These are in the unit ball w.r.t the $L^1$ norm, but as $crightarrow 0$, their supremum norm tends to $infty$.
2
This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:20
1
@The_lost I have the same problem.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:21
1
Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
â A. Pongrácz
Aug 20 at 13:27
Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:27
1
@A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:36
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Exactly, your suggestion is the right proof strategy. So you show that the inverse of the unit ball is not contained in any ball.
Let $f_c(x)$ be the function for all $0<c<1$ such that $f_c(x)= begincases frac2c-frac2xc^2 ,, textif ,, xin [0,c] \ 0 ,, textotherwise endcases$.
These are in the unit ball w.r.t the $L^1$ norm, but as $crightarrow 0$, their supremum norm tends to $infty$.
Exactly, your suggestion is the right proof strategy. So you show that the inverse of the unit ball is not contained in any ball.
Let $f_c(x)$ be the function for all $0<c<1$ such that $f_c(x)= begincases frac2c-frac2xc^2 ,, textif ,, xin [0,c] \ 0 ,, textotherwise endcases$.
These are in the unit ball w.r.t the $L^1$ norm, but as $crightarrow 0$, their supremum norm tends to $infty$.
edited Aug 20 at 13:28
answered Aug 20 at 13:05
A. Pongrácz
4,037625
4,037625
2
This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:20
1
@The_lost I have the same problem.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:21
1
Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
â A. Pongrácz
Aug 20 at 13:27
Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:27
1
@A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:36
 |Â
show 3 more comments
2
This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:20
1
@The_lost I have the same problem.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:21
1
Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
â A. Pongrácz
Aug 20 at 13:27
Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:27
1
@A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:36
2
2
This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:20
This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:20
1
1
@The_lost I have the same problem.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:21
@The_lost I have the same problem.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:21
1
1
Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
â A. Pongrácz
Aug 20 at 13:27
Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
â A. Pongrácz
Aug 20 at 13:27
Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:27
Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:27
1
1
@A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:36
@A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:36
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
Why not considering $f_n(x):=x^n$?
Then $lVert f_nrVert_1=frac1n+1to 0$ as $ntoinfty$, while $lVert f_nrVert_infty=1$ for all $ngeq 1$.
Hence, $forall Mgeqslant 0~exists f_nin C[0,1]$ with $n$ large enough such that
$$
lVert textid^-1(f_n)rVert_infty=lVert f_nrVert_infty> MlVert f_nrVert_1.
$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Why not considering $f_n(x):=x^n$?
Then $lVert f_nrVert_1=frac1n+1to 0$ as $ntoinfty$, while $lVert f_nrVert_infty=1$ for all $ngeq 1$.
Hence, $forall Mgeqslant 0~exists f_nin C[0,1]$ with $n$ large enough such that
$$
lVert textid^-1(f_n)rVert_infty=lVert f_nrVert_infty> MlVert f_nrVert_1.
$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Why not considering $f_n(x):=x^n$?
Then $lVert f_nrVert_1=frac1n+1to 0$ as $ntoinfty$, while $lVert f_nrVert_infty=1$ for all $ngeq 1$.
Hence, $forall Mgeqslant 0~exists f_nin C[0,1]$ with $n$ large enough such that
$$
lVert textid^-1(f_n)rVert_infty=lVert f_nrVert_infty> MlVert f_nrVert_1.
$$
Why not considering $f_n(x):=x^n$?
Then $lVert f_nrVert_1=frac1n+1to 0$ as $ntoinfty$, while $lVert f_nrVert_infty=1$ for all $ngeq 1$.
Hence, $forall Mgeqslant 0~exists f_nin C[0,1]$ with $n$ large enough such that
$$
lVert textid^-1(f_n)rVert_infty=lVert f_nrVert_infty> MlVert f_nrVert_1.
$$
edited Aug 20 at 14:13
answered Aug 20 at 13:55
Rhjg
295215
295215
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Recall that a linear map is continuous if and only if it is bounded. We're looking at the identity map from $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ to $(C([0, 1], | cdot |_infty)$, meaning that we need to show that no bound $M$ exists for this map. That is, for all $M$, there exists some $f$ in the unit ball of $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ (i.e. $|f|_1 le 1)$ such that $|f|_infty > M$.
Essentially, you need a continuous function that has very large maxima, but whose absolute integral is still $1$. I'd suggest some kind of piecewise linear bump functions. Connect the points $(0, 0)$, $(1/M, M)$, $(2/M, 0)$, $(1, 0)$ into a piecewise linear function. Then, the function is positive, and the integral under it is $1$, but the supremum of the function is $M$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Recall that a linear map is continuous if and only if it is bounded. We're looking at the identity map from $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ to $(C([0, 1], | cdot |_infty)$, meaning that we need to show that no bound $M$ exists for this map. That is, for all $M$, there exists some $f$ in the unit ball of $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ (i.e. $|f|_1 le 1)$ such that $|f|_infty > M$.
Essentially, you need a continuous function that has very large maxima, but whose absolute integral is still $1$. I'd suggest some kind of piecewise linear bump functions. Connect the points $(0, 0)$, $(1/M, M)$, $(2/M, 0)$, $(1, 0)$ into a piecewise linear function. Then, the function is positive, and the integral under it is $1$, but the supremum of the function is $M$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Recall that a linear map is continuous if and only if it is bounded. We're looking at the identity map from $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ to $(C([0, 1], | cdot |_infty)$, meaning that we need to show that no bound $M$ exists for this map. That is, for all $M$, there exists some $f$ in the unit ball of $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ (i.e. $|f|_1 le 1)$ such that $|f|_infty > M$.
Essentially, you need a continuous function that has very large maxima, but whose absolute integral is still $1$. I'd suggest some kind of piecewise linear bump functions. Connect the points $(0, 0)$, $(1/M, M)$, $(2/M, 0)$, $(1, 0)$ into a piecewise linear function. Then, the function is positive, and the integral under it is $1$, but the supremum of the function is $M$.
Recall that a linear map is continuous if and only if it is bounded. We're looking at the identity map from $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ to $(C([0, 1], | cdot |_infty)$, meaning that we need to show that no bound $M$ exists for this map. That is, for all $M$, there exists some $f$ in the unit ball of $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ (i.e. $|f|_1 le 1)$ such that $|f|_infty > M$.
Essentially, you need a continuous function that has very large maxima, but whose absolute integral is still $1$. I'd suggest some kind of piecewise linear bump functions. Connect the points $(0, 0)$, $(1/M, M)$, $(2/M, 0)$, $(1, 0)$ into a piecewise linear function. Then, the function is positive, and the integral under it is $1$, but the supremum of the function is $M$.
answered Aug 20 at 13:34
Theo Bendit
12.3k1844
12.3k1844
add a comment |Â
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are the both spaces Banach spaces?
â The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:11
$(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
â Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:14