Show that the inverse function of the identity $textidcolon (C[0,1],lVertcdotrVert_infty)to (C[0,1],lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is not continuous

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
3
down vote

favorite












Consider $C[0,1]$, the set of all continuous functions $fcolon [0,1]tomathbbR$, as well as the norms
$$
lVert frVert_infty:=sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert,
$$
$$
lVert frVert_1:=int_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx.
$$



I am a bit lost to show that for the identity map given in the title (which is bijective, continuous and linear), its inverse function is not continuos.




I think one way to show this is to find an example $fin C[0,1]$ with the property:
$$
forall Mgeq 0~exists xin [0,1]:quad sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert>Mint_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx
$$







share|cite|improve this question




















  • are the both spaces Banach spaces?
    – The_lost
    Aug 20 at 13:11










  • $(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
    – Rhjg
    Aug 20 at 13:14














up vote
3
down vote

favorite












Consider $C[0,1]$, the set of all continuous functions $fcolon [0,1]tomathbbR$, as well as the norms
$$
lVert frVert_infty:=sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert,
$$
$$
lVert frVert_1:=int_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx.
$$



I am a bit lost to show that for the identity map given in the title (which is bijective, continuous and linear), its inverse function is not continuos.




I think one way to show this is to find an example $fin C[0,1]$ with the property:
$$
forall Mgeq 0~exists xin [0,1]:quad sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert>Mint_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx
$$







share|cite|improve this question




















  • are the both spaces Banach spaces?
    – The_lost
    Aug 20 at 13:11










  • $(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
    – Rhjg
    Aug 20 at 13:14












up vote
3
down vote

favorite









up vote
3
down vote

favorite











Consider $C[0,1]$, the set of all continuous functions $fcolon [0,1]tomathbbR$, as well as the norms
$$
lVert frVert_infty:=sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert,
$$
$$
lVert frVert_1:=int_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx.
$$



I am a bit lost to show that for the identity map given in the title (which is bijective, continuous and linear), its inverse function is not continuos.




I think one way to show this is to find an example $fin C[0,1]$ with the property:
$$
forall Mgeq 0~exists xin [0,1]:quad sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert>Mint_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx
$$







share|cite|improve this question












Consider $C[0,1]$, the set of all continuous functions $fcolon [0,1]tomathbbR$, as well as the norms
$$
lVert frVert_infty:=sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert,
$$
$$
lVert frVert_1:=int_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx.
$$



I am a bit lost to show that for the identity map given in the title (which is bijective, continuous and linear), its inverse function is not continuos.




I think one way to show this is to find an example $fin C[0,1]$ with the property:
$$
forall Mgeq 0~exists xin [0,1]:quad sup_xin [0,1]lvert f(x)rvert>Mint_0^1lvert f(x)rvert, dx
$$









share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Aug 20 at 12:57









Rhjg

295215




295215











  • are the both spaces Banach spaces?
    – The_lost
    Aug 20 at 13:11










  • $(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
    – Rhjg
    Aug 20 at 13:14
















  • are the both spaces Banach spaces?
    – The_lost
    Aug 20 at 13:11










  • $(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
    – Rhjg
    Aug 20 at 13:14















are the both spaces Banach spaces?
– The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:11




are the both spaces Banach spaces?
– The_lost
Aug 20 at 13:11












$(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
– Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:14




$(C[0,1], lVertcdotrVert_1)$ is no Banach space.
– Rhjg
Aug 20 at 13:14










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote













Exactly, your suggestion is the right proof strategy. So you show that the inverse of the unit ball is not contained in any ball.



Let $f_c(x)$ be the function for all $0<c<1$ such that $f_c(x)= begincases frac2c-frac2xc^2 ,, textif ,, xin [0,c] \ 0 ,, textotherwise endcases$.



These are in the unit ball w.r.t the $L^1$ norm, but as $crightarrow 0$, their supremum norm tends to $infty$.






share|cite|improve this answer


















  • 2




    This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
    – The_lost
    Aug 20 at 13:20






  • 1




    @The_lost I have the same problem.
    – Rhjg
    Aug 20 at 13:21






  • 1




    Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
    – A. Pongrácz
    Aug 20 at 13:27










  • Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
    – Rhjg
    Aug 20 at 13:27






  • 1




    @A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
    – The_lost
    Aug 20 at 13:36

















up vote
2
down vote













Why not considering $f_n(x):=x^n$?



Then $lVert f_nrVert_1=frac1n+1to 0$ as $ntoinfty$, while $lVert f_nrVert_infty=1$ for all $ngeq 1$.



Hence, $forall Mgeqslant 0~exists f_nin C[0,1]$ with $n$ large enough such that
$$
lVert textid^-1(f_n)rVert_infty=lVert f_nrVert_infty> MlVert f_nrVert_1.
$$






share|cite|improve this answer





























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Recall that a linear map is continuous if and only if it is bounded. We're looking at the identity map from $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ to $(C([0, 1], | cdot |_infty)$, meaning that we need to show that no bound $M$ exists for this map. That is, for all $M$, there exists some $f$ in the unit ball of $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ (i.e. $|f|_1 le 1)$ such that $|f|_infty > M$.



    Essentially, you need a continuous function that has very large maxima, but whose absolute integral is still $1$. I'd suggest some kind of piecewise linear bump functions. Connect the points $(0, 0)$, $(1/M, M)$, $(2/M, 0)$, $(1, 0)$ into a piecewise linear function. Then, the function is positive, and the integral under it is $1$, but the supremum of the function is $M$.






    share|cite|improve this answer




















      Your Answer




      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
      );
      );
      , "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ready(function()
      var channelOptions =
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "69"
      ;
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
      createEditor();
      );

      else
      createEditor();

      );

      function createEditor()
      StackExchange.prepareEditor(
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      convertImagesToLinks: true,
      noModals: false,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: 10,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      );



      );








       

      draft saved


      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function ()
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2888754%2fshow-that-the-inverse-function-of-the-identity-textid-colon-c0-1-lvert-c%23new-answer', 'question_page');

      );

      Post as a guest






























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      2
      down vote













      Exactly, your suggestion is the right proof strategy. So you show that the inverse of the unit ball is not contained in any ball.



      Let $f_c(x)$ be the function for all $0<c<1$ such that $f_c(x)= begincases frac2c-frac2xc^2 ,, textif ,, xin [0,c] \ 0 ,, textotherwise endcases$.



      These are in the unit ball w.r.t the $L^1$ norm, but as $crightarrow 0$, their supremum norm tends to $infty$.






      share|cite|improve this answer


















      • 2




        This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
        – The_lost
        Aug 20 at 13:20






      • 1




        @The_lost I have the same problem.
        – Rhjg
        Aug 20 at 13:21






      • 1




        Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
        – A. Pongrácz
        Aug 20 at 13:27










      • Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
        – Rhjg
        Aug 20 at 13:27






      • 1




        @A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
        – The_lost
        Aug 20 at 13:36














      up vote
      2
      down vote













      Exactly, your suggestion is the right proof strategy. So you show that the inverse of the unit ball is not contained in any ball.



      Let $f_c(x)$ be the function for all $0<c<1$ such that $f_c(x)= begincases frac2c-frac2xc^2 ,, textif ,, xin [0,c] \ 0 ,, textotherwise endcases$.



      These are in the unit ball w.r.t the $L^1$ norm, but as $crightarrow 0$, their supremum norm tends to $infty$.






      share|cite|improve this answer


















      • 2




        This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
        – The_lost
        Aug 20 at 13:20






      • 1




        @The_lost I have the same problem.
        – Rhjg
        Aug 20 at 13:21






      • 1




        Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
        – A. Pongrácz
        Aug 20 at 13:27










      • Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
        – Rhjg
        Aug 20 at 13:27






      • 1




        @A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
        – The_lost
        Aug 20 at 13:36












      up vote
      2
      down vote










      up vote
      2
      down vote









      Exactly, your suggestion is the right proof strategy. So you show that the inverse of the unit ball is not contained in any ball.



      Let $f_c(x)$ be the function for all $0<c<1$ such that $f_c(x)= begincases frac2c-frac2xc^2 ,, textif ,, xin [0,c] \ 0 ,, textotherwise endcases$.



      These are in the unit ball w.r.t the $L^1$ norm, but as $crightarrow 0$, their supremum norm tends to $infty$.






      share|cite|improve this answer














      Exactly, your suggestion is the right proof strategy. So you show that the inverse of the unit ball is not contained in any ball.



      Let $f_c(x)$ be the function for all $0<c<1$ such that $f_c(x)= begincases frac2c-frac2xc^2 ,, textif ,, xin [0,c] \ 0 ,, textotherwise endcases$.



      These are in the unit ball w.r.t the $L^1$ norm, but as $crightarrow 0$, their supremum norm tends to $infty$.







      share|cite|improve this answer














      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited Aug 20 at 13:28

























      answered Aug 20 at 13:05









      A. Pongrácz

      4,037625




      4,037625







      • 2




        This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
        – The_lost
        Aug 20 at 13:20






      • 1




        @The_lost I have the same problem.
        – Rhjg
        Aug 20 at 13:21






      • 1




        Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
        – A. Pongrácz
        Aug 20 at 13:27










      • Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
        – Rhjg
        Aug 20 at 13:27






      • 1




        @A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
        – The_lost
        Aug 20 at 13:36












      • 2




        This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
        – The_lost
        Aug 20 at 13:20






      • 1




        @The_lost I have the same problem.
        – Rhjg
        Aug 20 at 13:21






      • 1




        Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
        – A. Pongrácz
        Aug 20 at 13:27










      • Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
        – Rhjg
        Aug 20 at 13:27






      • 1




        @A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
        – The_lost
        Aug 20 at 13:36







      2




      2




      This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
      – The_lost
      Aug 20 at 13:20




      This function is not continuous! could you please explain to me?
      – The_lost
      Aug 20 at 13:20




      1




      1




      @The_lost I have the same problem.
      – Rhjg
      Aug 20 at 13:21




      @The_lost I have the same problem.
      – Rhjg
      Aug 20 at 13:21




      1




      1




      Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
      – A. Pongrácz
      Aug 20 at 13:27




      Oh, sorry, I overlooked that condition. It is trivial to construct a similar continuous example. I will fix it.
      – A. Pongrácz
      Aug 20 at 13:27












      Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
      – Rhjg
      Aug 20 at 13:27




      Whats with $f_n(x):=x^n$ for $ngeq 1$? Then for large $n$, the integral is bounded by $1$ but the supremum is unbounded.
      – Rhjg
      Aug 20 at 13:27




      1




      1




      @A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
      – The_lost
      Aug 20 at 13:36




      @A.Pongrácz Very nice counter example +1
      – The_lost
      Aug 20 at 13:36










      up vote
      2
      down vote













      Why not considering $f_n(x):=x^n$?



      Then $lVert f_nrVert_1=frac1n+1to 0$ as $ntoinfty$, while $lVert f_nrVert_infty=1$ for all $ngeq 1$.



      Hence, $forall Mgeqslant 0~exists f_nin C[0,1]$ with $n$ large enough such that
      $$
      lVert textid^-1(f_n)rVert_infty=lVert f_nrVert_infty> MlVert f_nrVert_1.
      $$






      share|cite|improve this answer


























        up vote
        2
        down vote













        Why not considering $f_n(x):=x^n$?



        Then $lVert f_nrVert_1=frac1n+1to 0$ as $ntoinfty$, while $lVert f_nrVert_infty=1$ for all $ngeq 1$.



        Hence, $forall Mgeqslant 0~exists f_nin C[0,1]$ with $n$ large enough such that
        $$
        lVert textid^-1(f_n)rVert_infty=lVert f_nrVert_infty> MlVert f_nrVert_1.
        $$






        share|cite|improve this answer
























          up vote
          2
          down vote










          up vote
          2
          down vote









          Why not considering $f_n(x):=x^n$?



          Then $lVert f_nrVert_1=frac1n+1to 0$ as $ntoinfty$, while $lVert f_nrVert_infty=1$ for all $ngeq 1$.



          Hence, $forall Mgeqslant 0~exists f_nin C[0,1]$ with $n$ large enough such that
          $$
          lVert textid^-1(f_n)rVert_infty=lVert f_nrVert_infty> MlVert f_nrVert_1.
          $$






          share|cite|improve this answer














          Why not considering $f_n(x):=x^n$?



          Then $lVert f_nrVert_1=frac1n+1to 0$ as $ntoinfty$, while $lVert f_nrVert_infty=1$ for all $ngeq 1$.



          Hence, $forall Mgeqslant 0~exists f_nin C[0,1]$ with $n$ large enough such that
          $$
          lVert textid^-1(f_n)rVert_infty=lVert f_nrVert_infty> MlVert f_nrVert_1.
          $$







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Aug 20 at 14:13

























          answered Aug 20 at 13:55









          Rhjg

          295215




          295215




















              up vote
              1
              down vote













              Recall that a linear map is continuous if and only if it is bounded. We're looking at the identity map from $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ to $(C([0, 1], | cdot |_infty)$, meaning that we need to show that no bound $M$ exists for this map. That is, for all $M$, there exists some $f$ in the unit ball of $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ (i.e. $|f|_1 le 1)$ such that $|f|_infty > M$.



              Essentially, you need a continuous function that has very large maxima, but whose absolute integral is still $1$. I'd suggest some kind of piecewise linear bump functions. Connect the points $(0, 0)$, $(1/M, M)$, $(2/M, 0)$, $(1, 0)$ into a piecewise linear function. Then, the function is positive, and the integral under it is $1$, but the supremum of the function is $M$.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                1
                down vote













                Recall that a linear map is continuous if and only if it is bounded. We're looking at the identity map from $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ to $(C([0, 1], | cdot |_infty)$, meaning that we need to show that no bound $M$ exists for this map. That is, for all $M$, there exists some $f$ in the unit ball of $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ (i.e. $|f|_1 le 1)$ such that $|f|_infty > M$.



                Essentially, you need a continuous function that has very large maxima, but whose absolute integral is still $1$. I'd suggest some kind of piecewise linear bump functions. Connect the points $(0, 0)$, $(1/M, M)$, $(2/M, 0)$, $(1, 0)$ into a piecewise linear function. Then, the function is positive, and the integral under it is $1$, but the supremum of the function is $M$.






                share|cite|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote









                  Recall that a linear map is continuous if and only if it is bounded. We're looking at the identity map from $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ to $(C([0, 1], | cdot |_infty)$, meaning that we need to show that no bound $M$ exists for this map. That is, for all $M$, there exists some $f$ in the unit ball of $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ (i.e. $|f|_1 le 1)$ such that $|f|_infty > M$.



                  Essentially, you need a continuous function that has very large maxima, but whose absolute integral is still $1$. I'd suggest some kind of piecewise linear bump functions. Connect the points $(0, 0)$, $(1/M, M)$, $(2/M, 0)$, $(1, 0)$ into a piecewise linear function. Then, the function is positive, and the integral under it is $1$, but the supremum of the function is $M$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  Recall that a linear map is continuous if and only if it is bounded. We're looking at the identity map from $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ to $(C([0, 1], | cdot |_infty)$, meaning that we need to show that no bound $M$ exists for this map. That is, for all $M$, there exists some $f$ in the unit ball of $(C[0, 1], | cdot |_1)$ (i.e. $|f|_1 le 1)$ such that $|f|_infty > M$.



                  Essentially, you need a continuous function that has very large maxima, but whose absolute integral is still $1$. I'd suggest some kind of piecewise linear bump functions. Connect the points $(0, 0)$, $(1/M, M)$, $(2/M, 0)$, $(1, 0)$ into a piecewise linear function. Then, the function is positive, and the integral under it is $1$, but the supremum of the function is $M$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Aug 20 at 13:34









                  Theo Bendit

                  12.3k1844




                  12.3k1844






















                       

                      draft saved


                      draft discarded


























                       


                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function ()
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2888754%2fshow-that-the-inverse-function-of-the-identity-textid-colon-c0-1-lvert-c%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                      );

                      Post as a guest













































































                      這個網誌中的熱門文章

                      How to combine Bézier curves to a surface?

                      Why am i infinitely getting the same tweet with the Twitter Search API?

                      Is there any way to eliminate the singular point to solve this integral by hand or by approximations?