Can someone who has been Feebleminded have their Int and Cha scores changed via Polymorph?
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I'm running a campaign at the moment and one of the characters got feeblemind-ed.
If another character used polymorph to change them into something with higher Intelligence and Charisma, would this work?
dnd-5e spells polymorph ability-scores
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
I'm running a campaign at the moment and one of the characters got feeblemind-ed.
If another character used polymorph to change them into something with higher Intelligence and Charisma, would this work?
dnd-5e spells polymorph ability-scores
1
@V2Blast Spell names in 5e aren't proper nouns, so they shouldn't be capitalized in the question.
â Marq
Aug 20 at 10:11
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
I'm running a campaign at the moment and one of the characters got feeblemind-ed.
If another character used polymorph to change them into something with higher Intelligence and Charisma, would this work?
dnd-5e spells polymorph ability-scores
I'm running a campaign at the moment and one of the characters got feeblemind-ed.
If another character used polymorph to change them into something with higher Intelligence and Charisma, would this work?
dnd-5e spells polymorph ability-scores
edited Aug 20 at 9:20
V2Blast
13.2k23185
13.2k23185
asked Aug 20 at 7:38
craig grant
434
434
1
@V2Blast Spell names in 5e aren't proper nouns, so they shouldn't be capitalized in the question.
â Marq
Aug 20 at 10:11
add a comment |Â
1
@V2Blast Spell names in 5e aren't proper nouns, so they shouldn't be capitalized in the question.
â Marq
Aug 20 at 10:11
1
1
@V2Blast Spell names in 5e aren't proper nouns, so they shouldn't be capitalized in the question.
â Marq
Aug 20 at 10:11
@V2Blast Spell names in 5e aren't proper nouns, so they shouldn't be capitalized in the question.
â Marq
Aug 20 at 10:11
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
Yes
Assuming you are talking about the polymorph spell (other spells may vary but most will actually have the same effect).
The spell states:
The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are
replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its
alignment and personality.
So if the target is polymorphed into something with higher mental ability scores then yes - they may end up smarter, wiser and/or more charismatic! At least until polymorph ends.
Note:
Some argue that this would not work because Feeblemind, being a higher-level spell, would override a standard Polymorph.
However, as Mindwin points out in his own answer, the rules about overlapping spell durations (which states only the most potent effect applies) would not apply here because Feeblemind is an instantaneous spell. Its effects may last a long time, but the actual spell itself is instant. Hence even a standard level casting of polymorph would temporarily override those effects.
Could you polymorph a person into itself to "cure" feeblemind, then? (If I need to post a separate question, go ahead and tell me)
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 9:32
Probably a separate question, though I would say that the Polymorph spell is restrictive into what you can change into ("a beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's challenge rating or level"). Higher level spells may be less restrictive
â PJRZ
Aug 20 at 9:47
The ability score isn't the creature's own during the duration of the Feeblemind. It is the affect of a spell. I don't think this would be intended, although JC has made some really silly rulings in the past.
â Slagmoth
Aug 20 at 11:55
@berrym. only the species. You cannot transform a person into Obama's pet dog for example, just into a 'dog'. Even if it could transform Galadriel into an elf, it would be a generic elf maiden, not the queen of Lorien.
â Mindwin
Aug 20 at 13:28
Yeah, the beast-only part of Polymorph slipped my mind for a moment. True polymorph would indeed allow them to be transformed into generic-elf-female-423.
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 13:30
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
Yes
Feeblemind is a instantaneous spell with a lasting effect that grants a save to remove.
On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. [...]
At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.
Instantaneous spells do their effect then end. Feeblemind won't keep a check on the INT and CHA scores to set them to 1 every turn. It sets those scores once, and then it is done. Save every 30 days to revert back.
Given this characteristic of instantaneous spells (they don't linger as a spell effect), anything that modifies either INT or CHA scores later will have their effect. Including polymorph. The save every 30 days would still be rolled.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
No.
I would say that the 8th level Feeblemind would override the 4th level Polymorph.
A spellâÂÂs level is a general indicator of how powerful it is.
The rules only describe how the same spell can affect a target multiple times, but the logic seems sound for opposite effects.
The effects of different Spells add together while the durations of those Spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times donâÂÂt combine, however. Instead, the most potent effectâÂÂsuch as the highest bonusâÂÂfrom those castings applies while their durations overlap.
Also, Feeblemind describes specifically how to be ended.
The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.
Polymorph is not an option.
I would only allow Polymorph to override Feeblemind if upcast with a level 8 or 9 slot.
1
Note that the duration of feeblemind is instantaneous so the duration will not overlap with anything. So, the rules you cite seem to have no bearing on the issue.
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 20 at 15:00
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
Yes
Assuming you are talking about the polymorph spell (other spells may vary but most will actually have the same effect).
The spell states:
The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are
replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its
alignment and personality.
So if the target is polymorphed into something with higher mental ability scores then yes - they may end up smarter, wiser and/or more charismatic! At least until polymorph ends.
Note:
Some argue that this would not work because Feeblemind, being a higher-level spell, would override a standard Polymorph.
However, as Mindwin points out in his own answer, the rules about overlapping spell durations (which states only the most potent effect applies) would not apply here because Feeblemind is an instantaneous spell. Its effects may last a long time, but the actual spell itself is instant. Hence even a standard level casting of polymorph would temporarily override those effects.
Could you polymorph a person into itself to "cure" feeblemind, then? (If I need to post a separate question, go ahead and tell me)
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 9:32
Probably a separate question, though I would say that the Polymorph spell is restrictive into what you can change into ("a beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's challenge rating or level"). Higher level spells may be less restrictive
â PJRZ
Aug 20 at 9:47
The ability score isn't the creature's own during the duration of the Feeblemind. It is the affect of a spell. I don't think this would be intended, although JC has made some really silly rulings in the past.
â Slagmoth
Aug 20 at 11:55
@berrym. only the species. You cannot transform a person into Obama's pet dog for example, just into a 'dog'. Even if it could transform Galadriel into an elf, it would be a generic elf maiden, not the queen of Lorien.
â Mindwin
Aug 20 at 13:28
Yeah, the beast-only part of Polymorph slipped my mind for a moment. True polymorph would indeed allow them to be transformed into generic-elf-female-423.
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 13:30
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
Yes
Assuming you are talking about the polymorph spell (other spells may vary but most will actually have the same effect).
The spell states:
The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are
replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its
alignment and personality.
So if the target is polymorphed into something with higher mental ability scores then yes - they may end up smarter, wiser and/or more charismatic! At least until polymorph ends.
Note:
Some argue that this would not work because Feeblemind, being a higher-level spell, would override a standard Polymorph.
However, as Mindwin points out in his own answer, the rules about overlapping spell durations (which states only the most potent effect applies) would not apply here because Feeblemind is an instantaneous spell. Its effects may last a long time, but the actual spell itself is instant. Hence even a standard level casting of polymorph would temporarily override those effects.
Could you polymorph a person into itself to "cure" feeblemind, then? (If I need to post a separate question, go ahead and tell me)
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 9:32
Probably a separate question, though I would say that the Polymorph spell is restrictive into what you can change into ("a beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's challenge rating or level"). Higher level spells may be less restrictive
â PJRZ
Aug 20 at 9:47
The ability score isn't the creature's own during the duration of the Feeblemind. It is the affect of a spell. I don't think this would be intended, although JC has made some really silly rulings in the past.
â Slagmoth
Aug 20 at 11:55
@berrym. only the species. You cannot transform a person into Obama's pet dog for example, just into a 'dog'. Even if it could transform Galadriel into an elf, it would be a generic elf maiden, not the queen of Lorien.
â Mindwin
Aug 20 at 13:28
Yeah, the beast-only part of Polymorph slipped my mind for a moment. True polymorph would indeed allow them to be transformed into generic-elf-female-423.
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 13:30
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
Yes
Assuming you are talking about the polymorph spell (other spells may vary but most will actually have the same effect).
The spell states:
The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are
replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its
alignment and personality.
So if the target is polymorphed into something with higher mental ability scores then yes - they may end up smarter, wiser and/or more charismatic! At least until polymorph ends.
Note:
Some argue that this would not work because Feeblemind, being a higher-level spell, would override a standard Polymorph.
However, as Mindwin points out in his own answer, the rules about overlapping spell durations (which states only the most potent effect applies) would not apply here because Feeblemind is an instantaneous spell. Its effects may last a long time, but the actual spell itself is instant. Hence even a standard level casting of polymorph would temporarily override those effects.
Yes
Assuming you are talking about the polymorph spell (other spells may vary but most will actually have the same effect).
The spell states:
The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are
replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its
alignment and personality.
So if the target is polymorphed into something with higher mental ability scores then yes - they may end up smarter, wiser and/or more charismatic! At least until polymorph ends.
Note:
Some argue that this would not work because Feeblemind, being a higher-level spell, would override a standard Polymorph.
However, as Mindwin points out in his own answer, the rules about overlapping spell durations (which states only the most potent effect applies) would not apply here because Feeblemind is an instantaneous spell. Its effects may last a long time, but the actual spell itself is instant. Hence even a standard level casting of polymorph would temporarily override those effects.
edited Aug 20 at 15:01
Rubiksmoose
36.2k5183278
36.2k5183278
answered Aug 20 at 7:56
PJRZ
4,9561331
4,9561331
Could you polymorph a person into itself to "cure" feeblemind, then? (If I need to post a separate question, go ahead and tell me)
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 9:32
Probably a separate question, though I would say that the Polymorph spell is restrictive into what you can change into ("a beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's challenge rating or level"). Higher level spells may be less restrictive
â PJRZ
Aug 20 at 9:47
The ability score isn't the creature's own during the duration of the Feeblemind. It is the affect of a spell. I don't think this would be intended, although JC has made some really silly rulings in the past.
â Slagmoth
Aug 20 at 11:55
@berrym. only the species. You cannot transform a person into Obama's pet dog for example, just into a 'dog'. Even if it could transform Galadriel into an elf, it would be a generic elf maiden, not the queen of Lorien.
â Mindwin
Aug 20 at 13:28
Yeah, the beast-only part of Polymorph slipped my mind for a moment. True polymorph would indeed allow them to be transformed into generic-elf-female-423.
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 13:30
 |Â
show 1 more comment
Could you polymorph a person into itself to "cure" feeblemind, then? (If I need to post a separate question, go ahead and tell me)
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 9:32
Probably a separate question, though I would say that the Polymorph spell is restrictive into what you can change into ("a beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's challenge rating or level"). Higher level spells may be less restrictive
â PJRZ
Aug 20 at 9:47
The ability score isn't the creature's own during the duration of the Feeblemind. It is the affect of a spell. I don't think this would be intended, although JC has made some really silly rulings in the past.
â Slagmoth
Aug 20 at 11:55
@berrym. only the species. You cannot transform a person into Obama's pet dog for example, just into a 'dog'. Even if it could transform Galadriel into an elf, it would be a generic elf maiden, not the queen of Lorien.
â Mindwin
Aug 20 at 13:28
Yeah, the beast-only part of Polymorph slipped my mind for a moment. True polymorph would indeed allow them to be transformed into generic-elf-female-423.
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 13:30
Could you polymorph a person into itself to "cure" feeblemind, then? (If I need to post a separate question, go ahead and tell me)
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 9:32
Could you polymorph a person into itself to "cure" feeblemind, then? (If I need to post a separate question, go ahead and tell me)
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 9:32
Probably a separate question, though I would say that the Polymorph spell is restrictive into what you can change into ("a beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's challenge rating or level"). Higher level spells may be less restrictive
â PJRZ
Aug 20 at 9:47
Probably a separate question, though I would say that the Polymorph spell is restrictive into what you can change into ("a beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's challenge rating or level"). Higher level spells may be less restrictive
â PJRZ
Aug 20 at 9:47
The ability score isn't the creature's own during the duration of the Feeblemind. It is the affect of a spell. I don't think this would be intended, although JC has made some really silly rulings in the past.
â Slagmoth
Aug 20 at 11:55
The ability score isn't the creature's own during the duration of the Feeblemind. It is the affect of a spell. I don't think this would be intended, although JC has made some really silly rulings in the past.
â Slagmoth
Aug 20 at 11:55
@berrym. only the species. You cannot transform a person into Obama's pet dog for example, just into a 'dog'. Even if it could transform Galadriel into an elf, it would be a generic elf maiden, not the queen of Lorien.
â Mindwin
Aug 20 at 13:28
@berrym. only the species. You cannot transform a person into Obama's pet dog for example, just into a 'dog'. Even if it could transform Galadriel into an elf, it would be a generic elf maiden, not the queen of Lorien.
â Mindwin
Aug 20 at 13:28
Yeah, the beast-only part of Polymorph slipped my mind for a moment. True polymorph would indeed allow them to be transformed into generic-elf-female-423.
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 13:30
Yeah, the beast-only part of Polymorph slipped my mind for a moment. True polymorph would indeed allow them to be transformed into generic-elf-female-423.
â Berry M.
Aug 20 at 13:30
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
Yes
Feeblemind is a instantaneous spell with a lasting effect that grants a save to remove.
On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. [...]
At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.
Instantaneous spells do their effect then end. Feeblemind won't keep a check on the INT and CHA scores to set them to 1 every turn. It sets those scores once, and then it is done. Save every 30 days to revert back.
Given this characteristic of instantaneous spells (they don't linger as a spell effect), anything that modifies either INT or CHA scores later will have their effect. Including polymorph. The save every 30 days would still be rolled.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Yes
Feeblemind is a instantaneous spell with a lasting effect that grants a save to remove.
On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. [...]
At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.
Instantaneous spells do their effect then end. Feeblemind won't keep a check on the INT and CHA scores to set them to 1 every turn. It sets those scores once, and then it is done. Save every 30 days to revert back.
Given this characteristic of instantaneous spells (they don't linger as a spell effect), anything that modifies either INT or CHA scores later will have their effect. Including polymorph. The save every 30 days would still be rolled.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Yes
Feeblemind is a instantaneous spell with a lasting effect that grants a save to remove.
On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. [...]
At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.
Instantaneous spells do their effect then end. Feeblemind won't keep a check on the INT and CHA scores to set them to 1 every turn. It sets those scores once, and then it is done. Save every 30 days to revert back.
Given this characteristic of instantaneous spells (they don't linger as a spell effect), anything that modifies either INT or CHA scores later will have their effect. Including polymorph. The save every 30 days would still be rolled.
Yes
Feeblemind is a instantaneous spell with a lasting effect that grants a save to remove.
On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. [...]
At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.
Instantaneous spells do their effect then end. Feeblemind won't keep a check on the INT and CHA scores to set them to 1 every turn. It sets those scores once, and then it is done. Save every 30 days to revert back.
Given this characteristic of instantaneous spells (they don't linger as a spell effect), anything that modifies either INT or CHA scores later will have their effect. Including polymorph. The save every 30 days would still be rolled.
answered Aug 20 at 13:28
Mindwin
13.4k34129
13.4k34129
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
No.
I would say that the 8th level Feeblemind would override the 4th level Polymorph.
A spellâÂÂs level is a general indicator of how powerful it is.
The rules only describe how the same spell can affect a target multiple times, but the logic seems sound for opposite effects.
The effects of different Spells add together while the durations of those Spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times donâÂÂt combine, however. Instead, the most potent effectâÂÂsuch as the highest bonusâÂÂfrom those castings applies while their durations overlap.
Also, Feeblemind describes specifically how to be ended.
The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.
Polymorph is not an option.
I would only allow Polymorph to override Feeblemind if upcast with a level 8 or 9 slot.
1
Note that the duration of feeblemind is instantaneous so the duration will not overlap with anything. So, the rules you cite seem to have no bearing on the issue.
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 20 at 15:00
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
No.
I would say that the 8th level Feeblemind would override the 4th level Polymorph.
A spellâÂÂs level is a general indicator of how powerful it is.
The rules only describe how the same spell can affect a target multiple times, but the logic seems sound for opposite effects.
The effects of different Spells add together while the durations of those Spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times donâÂÂt combine, however. Instead, the most potent effectâÂÂsuch as the highest bonusâÂÂfrom those castings applies while their durations overlap.
Also, Feeblemind describes specifically how to be ended.
The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.
Polymorph is not an option.
I would only allow Polymorph to override Feeblemind if upcast with a level 8 or 9 slot.
1
Note that the duration of feeblemind is instantaneous so the duration will not overlap with anything. So, the rules you cite seem to have no bearing on the issue.
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 20 at 15:00
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
No.
I would say that the 8th level Feeblemind would override the 4th level Polymorph.
A spellâÂÂs level is a general indicator of how powerful it is.
The rules only describe how the same spell can affect a target multiple times, but the logic seems sound for opposite effects.
The effects of different Spells add together while the durations of those Spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times donâÂÂt combine, however. Instead, the most potent effectâÂÂsuch as the highest bonusâÂÂfrom those castings applies while their durations overlap.
Also, Feeblemind describes specifically how to be ended.
The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.
Polymorph is not an option.
I would only allow Polymorph to override Feeblemind if upcast with a level 8 or 9 slot.
No.
I would say that the 8th level Feeblemind would override the 4th level Polymorph.
A spellâÂÂs level is a general indicator of how powerful it is.
The rules only describe how the same spell can affect a target multiple times, but the logic seems sound for opposite effects.
The effects of different Spells add together while the durations of those Spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times donâÂÂt combine, however. Instead, the most potent effectâÂÂsuch as the highest bonusâÂÂfrom those castings applies while their durations overlap.
Also, Feeblemind describes specifically how to be ended.
The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.
Polymorph is not an option.
I would only allow Polymorph to override Feeblemind if upcast with a level 8 or 9 slot.
answered Aug 20 at 11:16
BlueMoon93
9,526954105
9,526954105
1
Note that the duration of feeblemind is instantaneous so the duration will not overlap with anything. So, the rules you cite seem to have no bearing on the issue.
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 20 at 15:00
add a comment |Â
1
Note that the duration of feeblemind is instantaneous so the duration will not overlap with anything. So, the rules you cite seem to have no bearing on the issue.
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 20 at 15:00
1
1
Note that the duration of feeblemind is instantaneous so the duration will not overlap with anything. So, the rules you cite seem to have no bearing on the issue.
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 20 at 15:00
Note that the duration of feeblemind is instantaneous so the duration will not overlap with anything. So, the rules you cite seem to have no bearing on the issue.
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 20 at 15:00
add a comment |Â
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1
@V2Blast Spell names in 5e aren't proper nouns, so they shouldn't be capitalized in the question.
â Marq
Aug 20 at 10:11