Why does a flat finite type morphism of irreducible noetherian schemes map generic pt to generic pt
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Basically the title, I came across this statement reading some notes on dimension of fibers of flat maps. (I don't know if Noetherian actually matters for this question)
I think that for maps of irreducible schemes, sending generic point to generic point is the same as $f: X to Y$ being dominant $leftrightarrow$ the associated ring map (reducing to the case where everything is affine) is injective, so why should the finitely generated $A$-alg $B$, $f^sharp: A to B$ flat, imply $f$ is injective?
algebraic-geometry commutative-algebra schemes flatness
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Basically the title, I came across this statement reading some notes on dimension of fibers of flat maps. (I don't know if Noetherian actually matters for this question)
I think that for maps of irreducible schemes, sending generic point to generic point is the same as $f: X to Y$ being dominant $leftrightarrow$ the associated ring map (reducing to the case where everything is affine) is injective, so why should the finitely generated $A$-alg $B$, $f^sharp: A to B$ flat, imply $f$ is injective?
algebraic-geometry commutative-algebra schemes flatness
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Basically the title, I came across this statement reading some notes on dimension of fibers of flat maps. (I don't know if Noetherian actually matters for this question)
I think that for maps of irreducible schemes, sending generic point to generic point is the same as $f: X to Y$ being dominant $leftrightarrow$ the associated ring map (reducing to the case where everything is affine) is injective, so why should the finitely generated $A$-alg $B$, $f^sharp: A to B$ flat, imply $f$ is injective?
algebraic-geometry commutative-algebra schemes flatness
Basically the title, I came across this statement reading some notes on dimension of fibers of flat maps. (I don't know if Noetherian actually matters for this question)
I think that for maps of irreducible schemes, sending generic point to generic point is the same as $f: X to Y$ being dominant $leftrightarrow$ the associated ring map (reducing to the case where everything is affine) is injective, so why should the finitely generated $A$-alg $B$, $f^sharp: A to B$ flat, imply $f$ is injective?
algebraic-geometry commutative-algebra schemes flatness
algebraic-geometry commutative-algebra schemes flatness
edited Sep 7 at 4:33
asked Sep 7 at 4:22
edgarlorp
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405
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1 Answer
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Any flat morphism $f:Xto Y$ with $X$ and $Y$ irreducible sends the generic point of $X$ to the generic point of $Y$. This is a consequence of the fact that generalizations lift along flat morphisms (of arbitrary schemes), which is itself a global version of the fact that a flat ring map $Ato B$ satisfies going down.
Here are the relevant Stacks Project references:
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/03HV (generalizations lift along flat morphisms)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/00HS (flat ring maps satisfy going down)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/00HW ($Ato B$ satisfies going down if and only if generalizations lift along $mathrmSpec(B)tomathrmSpec(A)$)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/0063 (definition of generalizations lifting along a map)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/0061 (definition of generalizations in a topological space)
Now assume $X$ and $Y$ are irreducible with generic points $eta_X$ and $eta_Y$, respectively, and let $f:Xto Y$ be flat. Consider the generalization $eta_Yrightsquigarrow f(eta_X)$ (the generic point of an irreducible scheme generalizes every point in the scheme). Since generalizations lift along $f$ (due to $f$ being flat), there is a point $xin X$ with $f(x)=eta_Y$ and $xrightsquigarrow eta_X$, i.e., $x$ is a generalization of $eta_X$. Because $eta_X$ is the generic point of $X$ and the underlying topological space of a scheme is sober (I guess just Kolmogorov is adequateâÂÂall that we need is that distinct points have distinct closures), we must have $x=eta_X$. Thus $f(eta_X)=f(x)=eta_Y$.
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
Any flat morphism $f:Xto Y$ with $X$ and $Y$ irreducible sends the generic point of $X$ to the generic point of $Y$. This is a consequence of the fact that generalizations lift along flat morphisms (of arbitrary schemes), which is itself a global version of the fact that a flat ring map $Ato B$ satisfies going down.
Here are the relevant Stacks Project references:
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/03HV (generalizations lift along flat morphisms)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/00HS (flat ring maps satisfy going down)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/00HW ($Ato B$ satisfies going down if and only if generalizations lift along $mathrmSpec(B)tomathrmSpec(A)$)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/0063 (definition of generalizations lifting along a map)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/0061 (definition of generalizations in a topological space)
Now assume $X$ and $Y$ are irreducible with generic points $eta_X$ and $eta_Y$, respectively, and let $f:Xto Y$ be flat. Consider the generalization $eta_Yrightsquigarrow f(eta_X)$ (the generic point of an irreducible scheme generalizes every point in the scheme). Since generalizations lift along $f$ (due to $f$ being flat), there is a point $xin X$ with $f(x)=eta_Y$ and $xrightsquigarrow eta_X$, i.e., $x$ is a generalization of $eta_X$. Because $eta_X$ is the generic point of $X$ and the underlying topological space of a scheme is sober (I guess just Kolmogorov is adequateâÂÂall that we need is that distinct points have distinct closures), we must have $x=eta_X$. Thus $f(eta_X)=f(x)=eta_Y$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
Any flat morphism $f:Xto Y$ with $X$ and $Y$ irreducible sends the generic point of $X$ to the generic point of $Y$. This is a consequence of the fact that generalizations lift along flat morphisms (of arbitrary schemes), which is itself a global version of the fact that a flat ring map $Ato B$ satisfies going down.
Here are the relevant Stacks Project references:
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/03HV (generalizations lift along flat morphisms)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/00HS (flat ring maps satisfy going down)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/00HW ($Ato B$ satisfies going down if and only if generalizations lift along $mathrmSpec(B)tomathrmSpec(A)$)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/0063 (definition of generalizations lifting along a map)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/0061 (definition of generalizations in a topological space)
Now assume $X$ and $Y$ are irreducible with generic points $eta_X$ and $eta_Y$, respectively, and let $f:Xto Y$ be flat. Consider the generalization $eta_Yrightsquigarrow f(eta_X)$ (the generic point of an irreducible scheme generalizes every point in the scheme). Since generalizations lift along $f$ (due to $f$ being flat), there is a point $xin X$ with $f(x)=eta_Y$ and $xrightsquigarrow eta_X$, i.e., $x$ is a generalization of $eta_X$. Because $eta_X$ is the generic point of $X$ and the underlying topological space of a scheme is sober (I guess just Kolmogorov is adequateâÂÂall that we need is that distinct points have distinct closures), we must have $x=eta_X$. Thus $f(eta_X)=f(x)=eta_Y$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
Any flat morphism $f:Xto Y$ with $X$ and $Y$ irreducible sends the generic point of $X$ to the generic point of $Y$. This is a consequence of the fact that generalizations lift along flat morphisms (of arbitrary schemes), which is itself a global version of the fact that a flat ring map $Ato B$ satisfies going down.
Here are the relevant Stacks Project references:
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/03HV (generalizations lift along flat morphisms)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/00HS (flat ring maps satisfy going down)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/00HW ($Ato B$ satisfies going down if and only if generalizations lift along $mathrmSpec(B)tomathrmSpec(A)$)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/0063 (definition of generalizations lifting along a map)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/0061 (definition of generalizations in a topological space)
Now assume $X$ and $Y$ are irreducible with generic points $eta_X$ and $eta_Y$, respectively, and let $f:Xto Y$ be flat. Consider the generalization $eta_Yrightsquigarrow f(eta_X)$ (the generic point of an irreducible scheme generalizes every point in the scheme). Since generalizations lift along $f$ (due to $f$ being flat), there is a point $xin X$ with $f(x)=eta_Y$ and $xrightsquigarrow eta_X$, i.e., $x$ is a generalization of $eta_X$. Because $eta_X$ is the generic point of $X$ and the underlying topological space of a scheme is sober (I guess just Kolmogorov is adequateâÂÂall that we need is that distinct points have distinct closures), we must have $x=eta_X$. Thus $f(eta_X)=f(x)=eta_Y$.
Any flat morphism $f:Xto Y$ with $X$ and $Y$ irreducible sends the generic point of $X$ to the generic point of $Y$. This is a consequence of the fact that generalizations lift along flat morphisms (of arbitrary schemes), which is itself a global version of the fact that a flat ring map $Ato B$ satisfies going down.
Here are the relevant Stacks Project references:
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/03HV (generalizations lift along flat morphisms)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/00HS (flat ring maps satisfy going down)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/00HW ($Ato B$ satisfies going down if and only if generalizations lift along $mathrmSpec(B)tomathrmSpec(A)$)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/0063 (definition of generalizations lifting along a map)
https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/0061 (definition of generalizations in a topological space)
Now assume $X$ and $Y$ are irreducible with generic points $eta_X$ and $eta_Y$, respectively, and let $f:Xto Y$ be flat. Consider the generalization $eta_Yrightsquigarrow f(eta_X)$ (the generic point of an irreducible scheme generalizes every point in the scheme). Since generalizations lift along $f$ (due to $f$ being flat), there is a point $xin X$ with $f(x)=eta_Y$ and $xrightsquigarrow eta_X$, i.e., $x$ is a generalization of $eta_X$. Because $eta_X$ is the generic point of $X$ and the underlying topological space of a scheme is sober (I guess just Kolmogorov is adequateâÂÂall that we need is that distinct points have distinct closures), we must have $x=eta_X$. Thus $f(eta_X)=f(x)=eta_Y$.
answered Sep 7 at 5:17
Keenan Kidwell
19.1k13169
19.1k13169
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