Is lift in fact a kind of drag?

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Given the similarities between Lift and drag and their very similar relationships to the density, surface area, and airflow velocity, could one, in theory, describe aerodynamic lift as a kind of drag where most of the force from lift is just directed in the vertical direction where this vertical component of the force opposes gravity?










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  • 2




    It is, in the same way that drag is effectively lift in the direction you (often) don't want it to be.
    – Jules
    Sep 7 at 14:55






  • 6




    Given the similarities between music and noise and their very similar relationships to the ear, pressure waves, and psychoacoustics, could one, in theory, describe music as a kind of noise?
    – Phil Frost
    Sep 7 at 17:31






  • 2




    Shoegazer here. We certainly think so! @PhilFrost
    – Harper
    Sep 7 at 20:46















up vote
14
down vote

favorite
1












Given the similarities between Lift and drag and their very similar relationships to the density, surface area, and airflow velocity, could one, in theory, describe aerodynamic lift as a kind of drag where most of the force from lift is just directed in the vertical direction where this vertical component of the force opposes gravity?










share|improve this question



















  • 2




    It is, in the same way that drag is effectively lift in the direction you (often) don't want it to be.
    – Jules
    Sep 7 at 14:55






  • 6




    Given the similarities between music and noise and their very similar relationships to the ear, pressure waves, and psychoacoustics, could one, in theory, describe music as a kind of noise?
    – Phil Frost
    Sep 7 at 17:31






  • 2




    Shoegazer here. We certainly think so! @PhilFrost
    – Harper
    Sep 7 at 20:46













up vote
14
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
14
down vote

favorite
1






1





Given the similarities between Lift and drag and their very similar relationships to the density, surface area, and airflow velocity, could one, in theory, describe aerodynamic lift as a kind of drag where most of the force from lift is just directed in the vertical direction where this vertical component of the force opposes gravity?










share|improve this question















Given the similarities between Lift and drag and their very similar relationships to the density, surface area, and airflow velocity, could one, in theory, describe aerodynamic lift as a kind of drag where most of the force from lift is just directed in the vertical direction where this vertical component of the force opposes gravity?







aerodynamics lift drag






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edited Sep 7 at 4:49

























asked Sep 7 at 4:29









Carlo Felicione

35.7k264135




35.7k264135







  • 2




    It is, in the same way that drag is effectively lift in the direction you (often) don't want it to be.
    – Jules
    Sep 7 at 14:55






  • 6




    Given the similarities between music and noise and their very similar relationships to the ear, pressure waves, and psychoacoustics, could one, in theory, describe music as a kind of noise?
    – Phil Frost
    Sep 7 at 17:31






  • 2




    Shoegazer here. We certainly think so! @PhilFrost
    – Harper
    Sep 7 at 20:46













  • 2




    It is, in the same way that drag is effectively lift in the direction you (often) don't want it to be.
    – Jules
    Sep 7 at 14:55






  • 6




    Given the similarities between music and noise and their very similar relationships to the ear, pressure waves, and psychoacoustics, could one, in theory, describe music as a kind of noise?
    – Phil Frost
    Sep 7 at 17:31






  • 2




    Shoegazer here. We certainly think so! @PhilFrost
    – Harper
    Sep 7 at 20:46








2




2




It is, in the same way that drag is effectively lift in the direction you (often) don't want it to be.
– Jules
Sep 7 at 14:55




It is, in the same way that drag is effectively lift in the direction you (often) don't want it to be.
– Jules
Sep 7 at 14:55




6




6




Given the similarities between music and noise and their very similar relationships to the ear, pressure waves, and psychoacoustics, could one, in theory, describe music as a kind of noise?
– Phil Frost
Sep 7 at 17:31




Given the similarities between music and noise and their very similar relationships to the ear, pressure waves, and psychoacoustics, could one, in theory, describe music as a kind of noise?
– Phil Frost
Sep 7 at 17:31




2




2




Shoegazer here. We certainly think so! @PhilFrost
– Harper
Sep 7 at 20:46





Shoegazer here. We certainly think so! @PhilFrost
– Harper
Sep 7 at 20:46











6 Answers
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54
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An 'aerodynamic force' (just one force...) appears when a body is immersed in a fluid stream. By convention, two components are chosen, one of them parallel to the stream direction, called 'drag', and the other one, perpendicular to that 'drag' is termed 'lift'.






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  • 3




    such a simple (and correct) answer
    – Radu094
    Sep 8 at 13:58










  • Yes. Just to be more accurate: lift and drag are just components of the force vector but they doesn't say anything about the nature of the force (inertial or viscous for ie.)
    – Gianluca Conte
    Sep 9 at 20:50

















up vote
2
down vote













At least as the terms are normally used, lift is not drag, and drag is not lift.



What I suspect you're looking for is: "induced drag", which is the part of the drag that's caused by an airfoil generating lift.



Induced drag is opposed to "parasitic drag", which includes things like friction drag (friction between the airfoil's skin and the air) and interference drag (e.g., there's some extra drag where the wing mounts to the fuselage) and so on.






share|improve this answer



























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    Using the wing as a frame of reference, then the aerodynamic force is related to diversion (change in direction) of the relative flow. In a normal situation, the relative flow in front of the wing is horizontal, and the wing curves the flow downwards a bit. Assuming an ideal case where the flow speed isn't changed, then the horizontal component of the initial velocity is decreased somewhat (induced drag), and the vertical component is increased from zero to some non-zero value (lift). In a real world situation, the flow speed is reduced due to friction, viscosity, profile drag, ..., which further reduces the horizontal component of initial velocity (other components of drag).



    Using the air as a frame of reference, drag is related to the forward acceleration of air, while lift is related to the vertical acceleration of air. Consider the case of a bus on a highway, the air is accelerated forwards, most of this due to the low pressure area behind the bus, some due to the air being pushed forward and around the front of the bus, while there is zero lift.



    On a side note, lift calculations are simpler than drag calculations because lift calculations can be based on flow field calculations that calculate speeds (relative to the wing) and the coexistent pressures related to those speeds. Drag calculations are more complicated because they need to take turbulent and boundary layer effects into account.






    share|improve this answer



























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      Maybe the best answer here is that, while lift and drag are separate quantities, their behavior is governed by the same physics ie conservation of momentum and Newton’s Third Law of Motion.






      share|improve this answer
















      • 1




        Physics laws are universal, but lift and drag are 'separate quantities' only by convention. The aerodynamic force is decomposed in lift and drag just because it's useful to do it so. Other de-compositions are possible, if probably not as useful, but that is the only 'reality' of lift and drag, an instrumental reality...
        – xxavier
        Sep 8 at 16:03

















      up vote
      0
      down vote













      One might ask what application would considering lift as a type of drag have? They are compared as L/D ratio as a parameter of design performance, however,
      especially as pilots, knowing the distinction may
      be extremely important as they apply to flight.



      The amount of lift one can generate is dependent on
      velocity (for a given aircraft). Why this is critically important is that velocity is the kinetic
      energy state, which is created by adding energy to
      the system from the thrust. A little
      like filling a barrel. One spigot is altitude
      (potential energy) that you can pour back in as needed. The other is drag. Thrust keeps filling
      the barrel, but it must be filled to a certain minimum
      level or the plane does not have enough velocity
      to fly.



      Empty the barrel too fast (steep climb), you can grab your
      potential energy (altitude) and pour it back in to
      get flying speed back. The thrust can only be added
      at a certain rate, as we know on our take off roll.



      Drag finds application as how much energy is being
      taken out (as related to fuel consumption or max velocity) and can be compared with lift for a given configuration, AoA, airfoil type, etc.in engineering theory, but as far as piloting, not related IMHO.



      Bob






      share|improve this answer





























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        I think that's the wrong way to look at it. The lift force is 90 degrees to the airstream. When you're gliding, the lift force is producing thrust, not drag, or else you would stop dead and fall from the sky.



        I think of the lift-related drag component as the energy consumed in inducing the air to move from point A to point B, creating the pressure differentials and down thrust from action/reaction, as the wing passes through it.






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        • 3




          No a component of the gravitational force acts as thrust in a glide, not lift.
          – Carlo Felicione
          Sep 7 at 13:27










        • But the gravitational force is straight down, not forward.
          – John K
          Sep 7 at 14:28










        • In a glide, a component of the gravitational force now acts parallel to and opposite the direction of, the relative wind, causing the airplane to move forward.
          – Carlo Felicione
          Sep 7 at 15:12











        • So when a helicopter tilts its rotor and angles its lift vector forward, the forward thrust component is generated by gravity?
          – John K
          Sep 7 at 15:39






        • 2




          No. That’s not the same thing. You need to do a free body diagram of that taking into account the relative wind as well. Both Lift and thrust there are being generated by engine power. Now if the helicopter loses engine power and begins an autorotative descent, then the forward thrust is being provided by gravity.
          – Carlo Felicione
          Sep 7 at 15:49











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        6 Answers
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        6 Answers
        6






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        up vote
        54
        down vote













        An 'aerodynamic force' (just one force...) appears when a body is immersed in a fluid stream. By convention, two components are chosen, one of them parallel to the stream direction, called 'drag', and the other one, perpendicular to that 'drag' is termed 'lift'.






        share|improve this answer
















        • 3




          such a simple (and correct) answer
          – Radu094
          Sep 8 at 13:58










        • Yes. Just to be more accurate: lift and drag are just components of the force vector but they doesn't say anything about the nature of the force (inertial or viscous for ie.)
          – Gianluca Conte
          Sep 9 at 20:50














        up vote
        54
        down vote













        An 'aerodynamic force' (just one force...) appears when a body is immersed in a fluid stream. By convention, two components are chosen, one of them parallel to the stream direction, called 'drag', and the other one, perpendicular to that 'drag' is termed 'lift'.






        share|improve this answer
















        • 3




          such a simple (and correct) answer
          – Radu094
          Sep 8 at 13:58










        • Yes. Just to be more accurate: lift and drag are just components of the force vector but they doesn't say anything about the nature of the force (inertial or viscous for ie.)
          – Gianluca Conte
          Sep 9 at 20:50












        up vote
        54
        down vote










        up vote
        54
        down vote









        An 'aerodynamic force' (just one force...) appears when a body is immersed in a fluid stream. By convention, two components are chosen, one of them parallel to the stream direction, called 'drag', and the other one, perpendicular to that 'drag' is termed 'lift'.






        share|improve this answer












        An 'aerodynamic force' (just one force...) appears when a body is immersed in a fluid stream. By convention, two components are chosen, one of them parallel to the stream direction, called 'drag', and the other one, perpendicular to that 'drag' is termed 'lift'.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Sep 7 at 5:23









        xxavier

        5,04411344




        5,04411344







        • 3




          such a simple (and correct) answer
          – Radu094
          Sep 8 at 13:58










        • Yes. Just to be more accurate: lift and drag are just components of the force vector but they doesn't say anything about the nature of the force (inertial or viscous for ie.)
          – Gianluca Conte
          Sep 9 at 20:50












        • 3




          such a simple (and correct) answer
          – Radu094
          Sep 8 at 13:58










        • Yes. Just to be more accurate: lift and drag are just components of the force vector but they doesn't say anything about the nature of the force (inertial or viscous for ie.)
          – Gianluca Conte
          Sep 9 at 20:50







        3




        3




        such a simple (and correct) answer
        – Radu094
        Sep 8 at 13:58




        such a simple (and correct) answer
        – Radu094
        Sep 8 at 13:58












        Yes. Just to be more accurate: lift and drag are just components of the force vector but they doesn't say anything about the nature of the force (inertial or viscous for ie.)
        – Gianluca Conte
        Sep 9 at 20:50




        Yes. Just to be more accurate: lift and drag are just components of the force vector but they doesn't say anything about the nature of the force (inertial or viscous for ie.)
        – Gianluca Conte
        Sep 9 at 20:50










        up vote
        2
        down vote













        At least as the terms are normally used, lift is not drag, and drag is not lift.



        What I suspect you're looking for is: "induced drag", which is the part of the drag that's caused by an airfoil generating lift.



        Induced drag is opposed to "parasitic drag", which includes things like friction drag (friction between the airfoil's skin and the air) and interference drag (e.g., there's some extra drag where the wing mounts to the fuselage) and so on.






        share|improve this answer
























          up vote
          2
          down vote













          At least as the terms are normally used, lift is not drag, and drag is not lift.



          What I suspect you're looking for is: "induced drag", which is the part of the drag that's caused by an airfoil generating lift.



          Induced drag is opposed to "parasitic drag", which includes things like friction drag (friction between the airfoil's skin and the air) and interference drag (e.g., there's some extra drag where the wing mounts to the fuselage) and so on.






          share|improve this answer






















            up vote
            2
            down vote










            up vote
            2
            down vote









            At least as the terms are normally used, lift is not drag, and drag is not lift.



            What I suspect you're looking for is: "induced drag", which is the part of the drag that's caused by an airfoil generating lift.



            Induced drag is opposed to "parasitic drag", which includes things like friction drag (friction between the airfoil's skin and the air) and interference drag (e.g., there's some extra drag where the wing mounts to the fuselage) and so on.






            share|improve this answer












            At least as the terms are normally used, lift is not drag, and drag is not lift.



            What I suspect you're looking for is: "induced drag", which is the part of the drag that's caused by an airfoil generating lift.



            Induced drag is opposed to "parasitic drag", which includes things like friction drag (friction between the airfoil's skin and the air) and interference drag (e.g., there's some extra drag where the wing mounts to the fuselage) and so on.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Sep 7 at 17:05









            Jerry Coffin

            2,311815




            2,311815




















                up vote
                0
                down vote













                Using the wing as a frame of reference, then the aerodynamic force is related to diversion (change in direction) of the relative flow. In a normal situation, the relative flow in front of the wing is horizontal, and the wing curves the flow downwards a bit. Assuming an ideal case where the flow speed isn't changed, then the horizontal component of the initial velocity is decreased somewhat (induced drag), and the vertical component is increased from zero to some non-zero value (lift). In a real world situation, the flow speed is reduced due to friction, viscosity, profile drag, ..., which further reduces the horizontal component of initial velocity (other components of drag).



                Using the air as a frame of reference, drag is related to the forward acceleration of air, while lift is related to the vertical acceleration of air. Consider the case of a bus on a highway, the air is accelerated forwards, most of this due to the low pressure area behind the bus, some due to the air being pushed forward and around the front of the bus, while there is zero lift.



                On a side note, lift calculations are simpler than drag calculations because lift calculations can be based on flow field calculations that calculate speeds (relative to the wing) and the coexistent pressures related to those speeds. Drag calculations are more complicated because they need to take turbulent and boundary layer effects into account.






                share|improve this answer
























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote













                  Using the wing as a frame of reference, then the aerodynamic force is related to diversion (change in direction) of the relative flow. In a normal situation, the relative flow in front of the wing is horizontal, and the wing curves the flow downwards a bit. Assuming an ideal case where the flow speed isn't changed, then the horizontal component of the initial velocity is decreased somewhat (induced drag), and the vertical component is increased from zero to some non-zero value (lift). In a real world situation, the flow speed is reduced due to friction, viscosity, profile drag, ..., which further reduces the horizontal component of initial velocity (other components of drag).



                  Using the air as a frame of reference, drag is related to the forward acceleration of air, while lift is related to the vertical acceleration of air. Consider the case of a bus on a highway, the air is accelerated forwards, most of this due to the low pressure area behind the bus, some due to the air being pushed forward and around the front of the bus, while there is zero lift.



                  On a side note, lift calculations are simpler than drag calculations because lift calculations can be based on flow field calculations that calculate speeds (relative to the wing) and the coexistent pressures related to those speeds. Drag calculations are more complicated because they need to take turbulent and boundary layer effects into account.






                  share|improve this answer






















                    up vote
                    0
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    0
                    down vote









                    Using the wing as a frame of reference, then the aerodynamic force is related to diversion (change in direction) of the relative flow. In a normal situation, the relative flow in front of the wing is horizontal, and the wing curves the flow downwards a bit. Assuming an ideal case where the flow speed isn't changed, then the horizontal component of the initial velocity is decreased somewhat (induced drag), and the vertical component is increased from zero to some non-zero value (lift). In a real world situation, the flow speed is reduced due to friction, viscosity, profile drag, ..., which further reduces the horizontal component of initial velocity (other components of drag).



                    Using the air as a frame of reference, drag is related to the forward acceleration of air, while lift is related to the vertical acceleration of air. Consider the case of a bus on a highway, the air is accelerated forwards, most of this due to the low pressure area behind the bus, some due to the air being pushed forward and around the front of the bus, while there is zero lift.



                    On a side note, lift calculations are simpler than drag calculations because lift calculations can be based on flow field calculations that calculate speeds (relative to the wing) and the coexistent pressures related to those speeds. Drag calculations are more complicated because they need to take turbulent and boundary layer effects into account.






                    share|improve this answer












                    Using the wing as a frame of reference, then the aerodynamic force is related to diversion (change in direction) of the relative flow. In a normal situation, the relative flow in front of the wing is horizontal, and the wing curves the flow downwards a bit. Assuming an ideal case where the flow speed isn't changed, then the horizontal component of the initial velocity is decreased somewhat (induced drag), and the vertical component is increased from zero to some non-zero value (lift). In a real world situation, the flow speed is reduced due to friction, viscosity, profile drag, ..., which further reduces the horizontal component of initial velocity (other components of drag).



                    Using the air as a frame of reference, drag is related to the forward acceleration of air, while lift is related to the vertical acceleration of air. Consider the case of a bus on a highway, the air is accelerated forwards, most of this due to the low pressure area behind the bus, some due to the air being pushed forward and around the front of the bus, while there is zero lift.



                    On a side note, lift calculations are simpler than drag calculations because lift calculations can be based on flow field calculations that calculate speeds (relative to the wing) and the coexistent pressures related to those speeds. Drag calculations are more complicated because they need to take turbulent and boundary layer effects into account.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Sep 7 at 21:29









                    rcgldr

                    31615




                    31615




















                        up vote
                        0
                        down vote













                        Maybe the best answer here is that, while lift and drag are separate quantities, their behavior is governed by the same physics ie conservation of momentum and Newton’s Third Law of Motion.






                        share|improve this answer
















                        • 1




                          Physics laws are universal, but lift and drag are 'separate quantities' only by convention. The aerodynamic force is decomposed in lift and drag just because it's useful to do it so. Other de-compositions are possible, if probably not as useful, but that is the only 'reality' of lift and drag, an instrumental reality...
                          – xxavier
                          Sep 8 at 16:03














                        up vote
                        0
                        down vote













                        Maybe the best answer here is that, while lift and drag are separate quantities, their behavior is governed by the same physics ie conservation of momentum and Newton’s Third Law of Motion.






                        share|improve this answer
















                        • 1




                          Physics laws are universal, but lift and drag are 'separate quantities' only by convention. The aerodynamic force is decomposed in lift and drag just because it's useful to do it so. Other de-compositions are possible, if probably not as useful, but that is the only 'reality' of lift and drag, an instrumental reality...
                          – xxavier
                          Sep 8 at 16:03












                        up vote
                        0
                        down vote










                        up vote
                        0
                        down vote









                        Maybe the best answer here is that, while lift and drag are separate quantities, their behavior is governed by the same physics ie conservation of momentum and Newton’s Third Law of Motion.






                        share|improve this answer












                        Maybe the best answer here is that, while lift and drag are separate quantities, their behavior is governed by the same physics ie conservation of momentum and Newton’s Third Law of Motion.







                        share|improve this answer












                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer










                        answered Sep 8 at 14:31









                        Carlo Felicione

                        35.7k264135




                        35.7k264135







                        • 1




                          Physics laws are universal, but lift and drag are 'separate quantities' only by convention. The aerodynamic force is decomposed in lift and drag just because it's useful to do it so. Other de-compositions are possible, if probably not as useful, but that is the only 'reality' of lift and drag, an instrumental reality...
                          – xxavier
                          Sep 8 at 16:03












                        • 1




                          Physics laws are universal, but lift and drag are 'separate quantities' only by convention. The aerodynamic force is decomposed in lift and drag just because it's useful to do it so. Other de-compositions are possible, if probably not as useful, but that is the only 'reality' of lift and drag, an instrumental reality...
                          – xxavier
                          Sep 8 at 16:03







                        1




                        1




                        Physics laws are universal, but lift and drag are 'separate quantities' only by convention. The aerodynamic force is decomposed in lift and drag just because it's useful to do it so. Other de-compositions are possible, if probably not as useful, but that is the only 'reality' of lift and drag, an instrumental reality...
                        – xxavier
                        Sep 8 at 16:03




                        Physics laws are universal, but lift and drag are 'separate quantities' only by convention. The aerodynamic force is decomposed in lift and drag just because it's useful to do it so. Other de-compositions are possible, if probably not as useful, but that is the only 'reality' of lift and drag, an instrumental reality...
                        – xxavier
                        Sep 8 at 16:03










                        up vote
                        0
                        down vote













                        One might ask what application would considering lift as a type of drag have? They are compared as L/D ratio as a parameter of design performance, however,
                        especially as pilots, knowing the distinction may
                        be extremely important as they apply to flight.



                        The amount of lift one can generate is dependent on
                        velocity (for a given aircraft). Why this is critically important is that velocity is the kinetic
                        energy state, which is created by adding energy to
                        the system from the thrust. A little
                        like filling a barrel. One spigot is altitude
                        (potential energy) that you can pour back in as needed. The other is drag. Thrust keeps filling
                        the barrel, but it must be filled to a certain minimum
                        level or the plane does not have enough velocity
                        to fly.



                        Empty the barrel too fast (steep climb), you can grab your
                        potential energy (altitude) and pour it back in to
                        get flying speed back. The thrust can only be added
                        at a certain rate, as we know on our take off roll.



                        Drag finds application as how much energy is being
                        taken out (as related to fuel consumption or max velocity) and can be compared with lift for a given configuration, AoA, airfoil type, etc.in engineering theory, but as far as piloting, not related IMHO.



                        Bob






                        share|improve this answer


























                          up vote
                          0
                          down vote













                          One might ask what application would considering lift as a type of drag have? They are compared as L/D ratio as a parameter of design performance, however,
                          especially as pilots, knowing the distinction may
                          be extremely important as they apply to flight.



                          The amount of lift one can generate is dependent on
                          velocity (for a given aircraft). Why this is critically important is that velocity is the kinetic
                          energy state, which is created by adding energy to
                          the system from the thrust. A little
                          like filling a barrel. One spigot is altitude
                          (potential energy) that you can pour back in as needed. The other is drag. Thrust keeps filling
                          the barrel, but it must be filled to a certain minimum
                          level or the plane does not have enough velocity
                          to fly.



                          Empty the barrel too fast (steep climb), you can grab your
                          potential energy (altitude) and pour it back in to
                          get flying speed back. The thrust can only be added
                          at a certain rate, as we know on our take off roll.



                          Drag finds application as how much energy is being
                          taken out (as related to fuel consumption or max velocity) and can be compared with lift for a given configuration, AoA, airfoil type, etc.in engineering theory, but as far as piloting, not related IMHO.



                          Bob






                          share|improve this answer
























                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote









                            One might ask what application would considering lift as a type of drag have? They are compared as L/D ratio as a parameter of design performance, however,
                            especially as pilots, knowing the distinction may
                            be extremely important as they apply to flight.



                            The amount of lift one can generate is dependent on
                            velocity (for a given aircraft). Why this is critically important is that velocity is the kinetic
                            energy state, which is created by adding energy to
                            the system from the thrust. A little
                            like filling a barrel. One spigot is altitude
                            (potential energy) that you can pour back in as needed. The other is drag. Thrust keeps filling
                            the barrel, but it must be filled to a certain minimum
                            level or the plane does not have enough velocity
                            to fly.



                            Empty the barrel too fast (steep climb), you can grab your
                            potential energy (altitude) and pour it back in to
                            get flying speed back. The thrust can only be added
                            at a certain rate, as we know on our take off roll.



                            Drag finds application as how much energy is being
                            taken out (as related to fuel consumption or max velocity) and can be compared with lift for a given configuration, AoA, airfoil type, etc.in engineering theory, but as far as piloting, not related IMHO.



                            Bob






                            share|improve this answer














                            One might ask what application would considering lift as a type of drag have? They are compared as L/D ratio as a parameter of design performance, however,
                            especially as pilots, knowing the distinction may
                            be extremely important as they apply to flight.



                            The amount of lift one can generate is dependent on
                            velocity (for a given aircraft). Why this is critically important is that velocity is the kinetic
                            energy state, which is created by adding energy to
                            the system from the thrust. A little
                            like filling a barrel. One spigot is altitude
                            (potential energy) that you can pour back in as needed. The other is drag. Thrust keeps filling
                            the barrel, but it must be filled to a certain minimum
                            level or the plane does not have enough velocity
                            to fly.



                            Empty the barrel too fast (steep climb), you can grab your
                            potential energy (altitude) and pour it back in to
                            get flying speed back. The thrust can only be added
                            at a certain rate, as we know on our take off roll.



                            Drag finds application as how much energy is being
                            taken out (as related to fuel consumption or max velocity) and can be compared with lift for a given configuration, AoA, airfoil type, etc.in engineering theory, but as far as piloting, not related IMHO.



                            Bob







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited Sep 8 at 15:57

























                            answered Sep 8 at 0:25









                            Robert DiGiovanni

                            2174




                            2174




















                                up vote
                                -2
                                down vote













                                I think that's the wrong way to look at it. The lift force is 90 degrees to the airstream. When you're gliding, the lift force is producing thrust, not drag, or else you would stop dead and fall from the sky.



                                I think of the lift-related drag component as the energy consumed in inducing the air to move from point A to point B, creating the pressure differentials and down thrust from action/reaction, as the wing passes through it.






                                share|improve this answer
















                                • 3




                                  No a component of the gravitational force acts as thrust in a glide, not lift.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 13:27










                                • But the gravitational force is straight down, not forward.
                                  – John K
                                  Sep 7 at 14:28










                                • In a glide, a component of the gravitational force now acts parallel to and opposite the direction of, the relative wind, causing the airplane to move forward.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 15:12











                                • So when a helicopter tilts its rotor and angles its lift vector forward, the forward thrust component is generated by gravity?
                                  – John K
                                  Sep 7 at 15:39






                                • 2




                                  No. That’s not the same thing. You need to do a free body diagram of that taking into account the relative wind as well. Both Lift and thrust there are being generated by engine power. Now if the helicopter loses engine power and begins an autorotative descent, then the forward thrust is being provided by gravity.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 15:49















                                up vote
                                -2
                                down vote













                                I think that's the wrong way to look at it. The lift force is 90 degrees to the airstream. When you're gliding, the lift force is producing thrust, not drag, or else you would stop dead and fall from the sky.



                                I think of the lift-related drag component as the energy consumed in inducing the air to move from point A to point B, creating the pressure differentials and down thrust from action/reaction, as the wing passes through it.






                                share|improve this answer
















                                • 3




                                  No a component of the gravitational force acts as thrust in a glide, not lift.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 13:27










                                • But the gravitational force is straight down, not forward.
                                  – John K
                                  Sep 7 at 14:28










                                • In a glide, a component of the gravitational force now acts parallel to and opposite the direction of, the relative wind, causing the airplane to move forward.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 15:12











                                • So when a helicopter tilts its rotor and angles its lift vector forward, the forward thrust component is generated by gravity?
                                  – John K
                                  Sep 7 at 15:39






                                • 2




                                  No. That’s not the same thing. You need to do a free body diagram of that taking into account the relative wind as well. Both Lift and thrust there are being generated by engine power. Now if the helicopter loses engine power and begins an autorotative descent, then the forward thrust is being provided by gravity.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 15:49













                                up vote
                                -2
                                down vote










                                up vote
                                -2
                                down vote









                                I think that's the wrong way to look at it. The lift force is 90 degrees to the airstream. When you're gliding, the lift force is producing thrust, not drag, or else you would stop dead and fall from the sky.



                                I think of the lift-related drag component as the energy consumed in inducing the air to move from point A to point B, creating the pressure differentials and down thrust from action/reaction, as the wing passes through it.






                                share|improve this answer












                                I think that's the wrong way to look at it. The lift force is 90 degrees to the airstream. When you're gliding, the lift force is producing thrust, not drag, or else you would stop dead and fall from the sky.



                                I think of the lift-related drag component as the energy consumed in inducing the air to move from point A to point B, creating the pressure differentials and down thrust from action/reaction, as the wing passes through it.







                                share|improve this answer












                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer










                                answered Sep 7 at 12:57









                                John K

                                7,814725




                                7,814725







                                • 3




                                  No a component of the gravitational force acts as thrust in a glide, not lift.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 13:27










                                • But the gravitational force is straight down, not forward.
                                  – John K
                                  Sep 7 at 14:28










                                • In a glide, a component of the gravitational force now acts parallel to and opposite the direction of, the relative wind, causing the airplane to move forward.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 15:12











                                • So when a helicopter tilts its rotor and angles its lift vector forward, the forward thrust component is generated by gravity?
                                  – John K
                                  Sep 7 at 15:39






                                • 2




                                  No. That’s not the same thing. You need to do a free body diagram of that taking into account the relative wind as well. Both Lift and thrust there are being generated by engine power. Now if the helicopter loses engine power and begins an autorotative descent, then the forward thrust is being provided by gravity.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 15:49













                                • 3




                                  No a component of the gravitational force acts as thrust in a glide, not lift.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 13:27










                                • But the gravitational force is straight down, not forward.
                                  – John K
                                  Sep 7 at 14:28










                                • In a glide, a component of the gravitational force now acts parallel to and opposite the direction of, the relative wind, causing the airplane to move forward.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 15:12











                                • So when a helicopter tilts its rotor and angles its lift vector forward, the forward thrust component is generated by gravity?
                                  – John K
                                  Sep 7 at 15:39






                                • 2




                                  No. That’s not the same thing. You need to do a free body diagram of that taking into account the relative wind as well. Both Lift and thrust there are being generated by engine power. Now if the helicopter loses engine power and begins an autorotative descent, then the forward thrust is being provided by gravity.
                                  – Carlo Felicione
                                  Sep 7 at 15:49








                                3




                                3




                                No a component of the gravitational force acts as thrust in a glide, not lift.
                                – Carlo Felicione
                                Sep 7 at 13:27




                                No a component of the gravitational force acts as thrust in a glide, not lift.
                                – Carlo Felicione
                                Sep 7 at 13:27












                                But the gravitational force is straight down, not forward.
                                – John K
                                Sep 7 at 14:28




                                But the gravitational force is straight down, not forward.
                                – John K
                                Sep 7 at 14:28












                                In a glide, a component of the gravitational force now acts parallel to and opposite the direction of, the relative wind, causing the airplane to move forward.
                                – Carlo Felicione
                                Sep 7 at 15:12





                                In a glide, a component of the gravitational force now acts parallel to and opposite the direction of, the relative wind, causing the airplane to move forward.
                                – Carlo Felicione
                                Sep 7 at 15:12













                                So when a helicopter tilts its rotor and angles its lift vector forward, the forward thrust component is generated by gravity?
                                – John K
                                Sep 7 at 15:39




                                So when a helicopter tilts its rotor and angles its lift vector forward, the forward thrust component is generated by gravity?
                                – John K
                                Sep 7 at 15:39




                                2




                                2




                                No. That’s not the same thing. You need to do a free body diagram of that taking into account the relative wind as well. Both Lift and thrust there are being generated by engine power. Now if the helicopter loses engine power and begins an autorotative descent, then the forward thrust is being provided by gravity.
                                – Carlo Felicione
                                Sep 7 at 15:49





                                No. That’s not the same thing. You need to do a free body diagram of that taking into account the relative wind as well. Both Lift and thrust there are being generated by engine power. Now if the helicopter loses engine power and begins an autorotative descent, then the forward thrust is being provided by gravity.
                                – Carlo Felicione
                                Sep 7 at 15:49


















                                 

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