Names of pre-1918 letters
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What were the names of the Russian letters ø and i in the pre-1918 Russian alphabet?
ñÃÂúòàðûÃÂðòøàôþÃÂõÃÂþÃÂüõýýðÃÂ-þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøÃÂ
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What were the names of the Russian letters ø and i in the pre-1918 Russian alphabet?
ñÃÂúòàðûÃÂðòøàôþÃÂõÃÂþÃÂüõýýðÃÂ-þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøÃÂ
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what have you research showed so far and why you've decided to ask here?
â shabuncâ¦
Aug 10 at 17:35
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What were the names of the Russian letters ø and i in the pre-1918 Russian alphabet?
ñÃÂúòàðûÃÂðòøàôþÃÂõÃÂþÃÂüõýýðÃÂ-þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøÃÂ
What were the names of the Russian letters ø and i in the pre-1918 Russian alphabet?
ñÃÂúòàðûÃÂðòøàôþÃÂõÃÂþÃÂüõýýðÃÂ-þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøÃÂ
asked Aug 8 at 17:24
oz1cz
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what have you research showed so far and why you've decided to ask here?
â shabuncâ¦
Aug 10 at 17:35
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what have you research showed so far and why you've decided to ask here?
â shabuncâ¦
Aug 10 at 17:35
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2
what have you research showed so far and why you've decided to ask here?
â shabuncâ¦
Aug 10 at 17:35
what have you research showed so far and why you've decided to ask here?
â shabuncâ¦
Aug 10 at 17:35
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2 Answers
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ÃÂþÃÂúþûÃÂúàþÃÂòõÃÂàò þôýþ ÿÃÂõôûþöõýøõ, ýðÃÂúþûÃÂúþ àÿþüýÃÂ, ÿÃÂþÃÂøò ÿÃÂðòøû (ò ÃÂðúøàÃÂûÃÂÃÂðÃÂàÃÂõúþüõýôÃÂõÃÂÃÂàôðÃÂàñþûÃÂÃÂõ øýÃÂþÃÂüðÃÂøø), ôðàýð÷òðýøõ òÃÂõàñÃÂúò.
ÃÂð÷òðýøàñÃÂúò ò ÃÂÃÂðÃÂþù þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøø. àúòðôÃÂðÃÂýÃÂàÃÂúþñúðàÃÂðüð ñÃÂúòð, õÃÂûø þýð ýõ ÃÂþòÿðôðõààÿõÃÂòþù ñÃÂúòþù ýð÷òðýøÃÂ. àúÃÂÃÂóûÃÂàÃÂúþñúðàòðÃÂøðýàýð÷òðýøàøûø (úÃÂÃÂÃÂøòþü) üþàÿÃÂøüõÃÂðýøõ.
ð÷ÃÂ, ñÃÂúø, òãôø, óûðóþûÃÂ, ôþñÃÂþ, õÃÂÃÂÃÂ, öøòãÃÂõ, ÷õüûÃÂ, øöõ (ø òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ), i (i ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ), ø ÃÂàúÃÂðÃÂúþù (ýõ ÃÂòõÃÂõý, ÃÂÃÂþ ÃÂÃÂøÃÂðûþÃÂàþÃÂôõûÃÂýþù ñÃÂúòþù), úðúþ, ûÃÂôø, üÃÂÃÂûãÃÂõ, ýðÃÂÃÂ, þýÃÂ, ÿþúþù, ÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂûþòþ, ÃÂòõÃÂôþ, ÃÂúÃÂ, ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂ
ãÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂõÃÂòÃÂ, ÃÂð, ÃÂð, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, ÃÂÃÂà[ã]
, à(þñþÃÂþÃÂýþõ ÃÂ), ÃÂ, ÃÂ, óøÃÂð (ò ÃÂþòÃÂõüõýýþù þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøø - ÃÂøÃÂð), øöøÃÂð [õ]
.
ÃÂÃÂðòþÿøÃÂðýøõ ýð÷òðýøù ñÃÂúò ÿþ úýøóõ "àþÃÂÃÂiùÃÂúðàóÃÂðüüðÃÂøúð" ÃÂþüþýþÃÂþòð, ÃÂÃÂÃÂ. 41-42 ò øÃÂÃÂþÃÂýøúõ. ÃÂõ òÃÂõ ñÃÂúòààýõóþ õÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÿÃÂðòþÿøÃÂðýøõ ýð÷òðýøù ôÃÂÃÂóøàñÃÂúò ÿþ Russian alphabet ò ðýóûøùÃÂúþù òøúøÿõôøø.
ÃÂöøÃÂð ñÃÂûð þÃÂüõýõýð ÃÂõÃÂÃÂþü I, ÿþÃÂþü ÃÂþ òòþôøûðÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂþ þÃÂüõýÃÂûðÃÂÃÂ, ú úþýÃÂà19 òõúð ÃÂþÃÂüðûÃÂýþ þÃÂÃÂðûðÃÂÃÂ, ýþ ò óÃÂðüüðÃÂøúõ 1870-àÿøÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþ þýð ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàÃÂþûÃÂúþ ò þôýþü ÃÂûþòõ : üõÃÂþ. ï ýõ ÃÂòõÃÂõý, ÿÃÂðòøûÃÂýþ ûø ñÃÂûþ ÿøÃÂðÃÂàøöøÃÂð øûø õöøÃÂð.
PS: ÃÂÃÂðÃÂÃÂõ ýð÷òðýøàÃÂÃÂðûø òÃÂàþôøÃÂàø÷ ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûõýøàø ÷ðüõýÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂàýþòÃÂüø àúþýÃÂð 19 òõúð. âðú, ýð÷òðýøõ "ÃÂòÃÂÃÂôÃÂù ÷ýðú" òÿõÃÂòÃÂõ ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàò ÃÂþÃÂÿÃÂÃÂõ ÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂúþóþ ÃÂ÷ÃÂúð ò 1875 óþôà(ÿÃÂÃÂõòÃÂõ ÷ðüõÃÂúø), ð òÃÂþÃÂþù ÃÂð÷ ò 1896 óþôà("ÃÂûõÃÂÃÂ" ÃÂÃÂÿÃÂøýð). "ÃÂÃÂ" ò ÃÂþàÿõÃÂøþô ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàÃÂþûÃÂúþ ò ÃÂõÃÂø ôõÃÂõù ø üðûþóÃÂðüþÃÂýÃÂàÿõÃÂÃÂþýðöõù, ýðÿÃÂøüõÃÂ:
ÃÂõûþ øôÃÂààþÃÂþÃÂþ, ÃÂÃÂñð ñÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂþ ÿþÃÂÃÂøóðõàÿÃÂõüÃÂôÃÂþÃÂÃÂàÃÂÃÂõýøàø ÿøÃÂÃÂüð,
ÿðÃÂúðõàÃÂõÃÂýøûðüø ø ÿðûÃÂÃÂàø ýþÃÂ, ÃÂðýÃÂÃÂúð àüÃÂÃÂøÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ñðÃÂøàõÃÂàóÃÂÃÂõ,
ÃÂõü ûõÃÂþü, ÿøÃÂõàòüõÃÂÃÂþ ñÃÂúòàëÃÂû òõ÷ôõ ÃÂòÃÂÃÂôÃÂù ÷ýðú, òõÃÂÃÂòúð àýõóþ
òÃÂàþôøàòÃÂõòúð, òõÃÂàþü â òÃÂàþü. ÃÂþóôð ÃÂÃÂøÃÂõûÃÂýøÃÂð þñÃÂÃÂÃÂýÃÂõÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþ ÃÂÃÂþ
ýõ ÃÂðú, þý ÃÂþûøôýþ ÃÂÿþÃÂøÃÂ: â àúðú öõ? ëÃÂÃÂû â ò ýÃÂü ÃÂÃÂð÷àôòõ ñÃÂúòÃÂ, ÃÂ
ø ÿøÃÂàõÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþñàÃÂúþÃÂõõ ñÃÂûþ ýðÿøÃÂðýþ⦠ÃÂõÃÂàõÃÂð? àôõôÃÂÃÂúð óþòþÃÂøàâÂÂ
õÃÂÃÂàþý? àúþýÃÂõ ÃÂûþò? ÃÂü⦠[ÃÂðúÃÂøü ÃÂþÃÂÃÂúøù. ÃÂþûÃÂÃÂðàûÃÂñþòà(1912)]
1
ÃÂöøÃÂð øÃÂÿþûÃÂ÷þòðûðÃÂàò ÃÂûþòðàóÃÂõÃÂõÃÂúþóþ ÿÃÂþøÃÂàþöôõýøàÿøÃÂðòÃÂøàÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ øÿÃÂøûþý: "üõÃÂþ", "õÃÂÃÂþô", "ÃÂõýþô". ÃÂþÃÂÃÂõÿõýýþ òÃÂõ þýø ÃÂÃÂðûø ÿøÃÂðÃÂÃÂÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø".
â Vitaly
Aug 8 at 20:55
2
@Vitaly - ÃÂõÃÂõ÷ òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø". ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ - ÃÂÃÂþ i.
â user31264
Aug 10 at 17:22
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They're named ÃÂöõ and à(pronounced as [ø] i surmise) or àòþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ and àôõÃÂÃÂÃÂøÃÂøÃÂýþõ respectively [ 1 ] due to numerical values used to be assigned to them [ 2 ]
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
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accepted
ÃÂþÃÂúþûÃÂúàþÃÂòõÃÂàò þôýþ ÿÃÂõôûþöõýøõ, ýðÃÂúþûÃÂúþ àÿþüýÃÂ, ÿÃÂþÃÂøò ÿÃÂðòøû (ò ÃÂðúøàÃÂûÃÂÃÂðÃÂàÃÂõúþüõýôÃÂõÃÂÃÂàôðÃÂàñþûÃÂÃÂõ øýÃÂþÃÂüðÃÂøø), ôðàýð÷òðýøõ òÃÂõàñÃÂúò.
ÃÂð÷òðýøàñÃÂúò ò ÃÂÃÂðÃÂþù þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøø. àúòðôÃÂðÃÂýÃÂàÃÂúþñúðàÃÂðüð ñÃÂúòð, õÃÂûø þýð ýõ ÃÂþòÿðôðõààÿõÃÂòþù ñÃÂúòþù ýð÷òðýøÃÂ. àúÃÂÃÂóûÃÂàÃÂúþñúðàòðÃÂøðýàýð÷òðýøàøûø (úÃÂÃÂÃÂøòþü) üþàÿÃÂøüõÃÂðýøõ.
ð÷ÃÂ, ñÃÂúø, òãôø, óûðóþûÃÂ, ôþñÃÂþ, õÃÂÃÂÃÂ, öøòãÃÂõ, ÷õüûÃÂ, øöõ (ø òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ), i (i ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ), ø ÃÂàúÃÂðÃÂúþù (ýõ ÃÂòõÃÂõý, ÃÂÃÂþ ÃÂÃÂøÃÂðûþÃÂàþÃÂôõûÃÂýþù ñÃÂúòþù), úðúþ, ûÃÂôø, üÃÂÃÂûãÃÂõ, ýðÃÂÃÂ, þýÃÂ, ÿþúþù, ÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂûþòþ, ÃÂòõÃÂôþ, ÃÂúÃÂ, ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂ
ãÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂõÃÂòÃÂ, ÃÂð, ÃÂð, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, ÃÂÃÂà[ã]
, à(þñþÃÂþÃÂýþõ ÃÂ), ÃÂ, ÃÂ, óøÃÂð (ò ÃÂþòÃÂõüõýýþù þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøø - ÃÂøÃÂð), øöøÃÂð [õ]
.
ÃÂÃÂðòþÿøÃÂðýøõ ýð÷òðýøù ñÃÂúò ÿþ úýøóõ "àþÃÂÃÂiùÃÂúðàóÃÂðüüðÃÂøúð" ÃÂþüþýþÃÂþòð, ÃÂÃÂÃÂ. 41-42 ò øÃÂÃÂþÃÂýøúõ. ÃÂõ òÃÂõ ñÃÂúòààýõóþ õÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÿÃÂðòþÿøÃÂðýøõ ýð÷òðýøù ôÃÂÃÂóøàñÃÂúò ÿþ Russian alphabet ò ðýóûøùÃÂúþù òøúøÿõôøø.
ÃÂöøÃÂð ñÃÂûð þÃÂüõýõýð ÃÂõÃÂÃÂþü I, ÿþÃÂþü ÃÂþ òòþôøûðÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂþ þÃÂüõýÃÂûðÃÂÃÂ, ú úþýÃÂà19 òõúð ÃÂþÃÂüðûÃÂýþ þÃÂÃÂðûðÃÂÃÂ, ýþ ò óÃÂðüüðÃÂøúõ 1870-àÿøÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþ þýð ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàÃÂþûÃÂúþ ò þôýþü ÃÂûþòõ : üõÃÂþ. ï ýõ ÃÂòõÃÂõý, ÿÃÂðòøûÃÂýþ ûø ñÃÂûþ ÿøÃÂðÃÂàøöøÃÂð øûø õöøÃÂð.
PS: ÃÂÃÂðÃÂÃÂõ ýð÷òðýøàÃÂÃÂðûø òÃÂàþôøÃÂàø÷ ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûõýøàø ÷ðüõýÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂàýþòÃÂüø àúþýÃÂð 19 òõúð. âðú, ýð÷òðýøõ "ÃÂòÃÂÃÂôÃÂù ÷ýðú" òÿõÃÂòÃÂõ ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàò ÃÂþÃÂÿÃÂÃÂõ ÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂúþóþ ÃÂ÷ÃÂúð ò 1875 óþôà(ÿÃÂÃÂõòÃÂõ ÷ðüõÃÂúø), ð òÃÂþÃÂþù ÃÂð÷ ò 1896 óþôà("ÃÂûõÃÂÃÂ" ÃÂÃÂÿÃÂøýð). "ÃÂÃÂ" ò ÃÂþàÿõÃÂøþô ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàÃÂþûÃÂúþ ò ÃÂõÃÂø ôõÃÂõù ø üðûþóÃÂðüþÃÂýÃÂàÿõÃÂÃÂþýðöõù, ýðÿÃÂøüõÃÂ:
ÃÂõûþ øôÃÂààþÃÂþÃÂþ, ÃÂÃÂñð ñÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂþ ÿþÃÂÃÂøóðõàÿÃÂõüÃÂôÃÂþÃÂÃÂàÃÂÃÂõýøàø ÿøÃÂÃÂüð,
ÿðÃÂúðõàÃÂõÃÂýøûðüø ø ÿðûÃÂÃÂàø ýþÃÂ, ÃÂðýÃÂÃÂúð àüÃÂÃÂøÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ñðÃÂøàõÃÂàóÃÂÃÂõ,
ÃÂõü ûõÃÂþü, ÿøÃÂõàòüõÃÂÃÂþ ñÃÂúòàëÃÂû òõ÷ôõ ÃÂòÃÂÃÂôÃÂù ÷ýðú, òõÃÂÃÂòúð àýõóþ
òÃÂàþôøàòÃÂõòúð, òõÃÂàþü â òÃÂàþü. ÃÂþóôð ÃÂÃÂøÃÂõûÃÂýøÃÂð þñÃÂÃÂÃÂýÃÂõÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþ ÃÂÃÂþ
ýõ ÃÂðú, þý ÃÂþûøôýþ ÃÂÿþÃÂøÃÂ: â àúðú öõ? ëÃÂÃÂû â ò ýÃÂü ÃÂÃÂð÷àôòõ ñÃÂúòÃÂ, ÃÂ
ø ÿøÃÂàõÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþñàÃÂúþÃÂõõ ñÃÂûþ ýðÿøÃÂðýþ⦠ÃÂõÃÂàõÃÂð? àôõôÃÂÃÂúð óþòþÃÂøàâÂÂ
õÃÂÃÂàþý? àúþýÃÂõ ÃÂûþò? ÃÂü⦠[ÃÂðúÃÂøü ÃÂþÃÂÃÂúøù. ÃÂþûÃÂÃÂðàûÃÂñþòà(1912)]
1
ÃÂöøÃÂð øÃÂÿþûÃÂ÷þòðûðÃÂàò ÃÂûþòðàóÃÂõÃÂõÃÂúþóþ ÿÃÂþøÃÂàþöôõýøàÿøÃÂðòÃÂøàÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ øÿÃÂøûþý: "üõÃÂþ", "õÃÂÃÂþô", "ÃÂõýþô". ÃÂþÃÂÃÂõÿõýýþ òÃÂõ þýø ÃÂÃÂðûø ÿøÃÂðÃÂÃÂÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø".
â Vitaly
Aug 8 at 20:55
2
@Vitaly - ÃÂõÃÂõ÷ òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø". ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ - ÃÂÃÂþ i.
â user31264
Aug 10 at 17:22
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accepted
ÃÂþÃÂúþûÃÂúàþÃÂòõÃÂàò þôýþ ÿÃÂõôûþöõýøõ, ýðÃÂúþûÃÂúþ àÿþüýÃÂ, ÿÃÂþÃÂøò ÿÃÂðòøû (ò ÃÂðúøàÃÂûÃÂÃÂðÃÂàÃÂõúþüõýôÃÂõÃÂÃÂàôðÃÂàñþûÃÂÃÂõ øýÃÂþÃÂüðÃÂøø), ôðàýð÷òðýøõ òÃÂõàñÃÂúò.
ÃÂð÷òðýøàñÃÂúò ò ÃÂÃÂðÃÂþù þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøø. àúòðôÃÂðÃÂýÃÂàÃÂúþñúðàÃÂðüð ñÃÂúòð, õÃÂûø þýð ýõ ÃÂþòÿðôðõààÿõÃÂòþù ñÃÂúòþù ýð÷òðýøÃÂ. àúÃÂÃÂóûÃÂàÃÂúþñúðàòðÃÂøðýàýð÷òðýøàøûø (úÃÂÃÂÃÂøòþü) üþàÿÃÂøüõÃÂðýøõ.
ð÷ÃÂ, ñÃÂúø, òãôø, óûðóþûÃÂ, ôþñÃÂþ, õÃÂÃÂÃÂ, öøòãÃÂõ, ÷õüûÃÂ, øöõ (ø òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ), i (i ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ), ø ÃÂàúÃÂðÃÂúþù (ýõ ÃÂòõÃÂõý, ÃÂÃÂþ ÃÂÃÂøÃÂðûþÃÂàþÃÂôõûÃÂýþù ñÃÂúòþù), úðúþ, ûÃÂôø, üÃÂÃÂûãÃÂõ, ýðÃÂÃÂ, þýÃÂ, ÿþúþù, ÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂûþòþ, ÃÂòõÃÂôþ, ÃÂúÃÂ, ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂ
ãÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂõÃÂòÃÂ, ÃÂð, ÃÂð, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, ÃÂÃÂà[ã]
, à(þñþÃÂþÃÂýþõ ÃÂ), ÃÂ, ÃÂ, óøÃÂð (ò ÃÂþòÃÂõüõýýþù þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøø - ÃÂøÃÂð), øöøÃÂð [õ]
.
ÃÂÃÂðòþÿøÃÂðýøõ ýð÷òðýøù ñÃÂúò ÿþ úýøóõ "àþÃÂÃÂiùÃÂúðàóÃÂðüüðÃÂøúð" ÃÂþüþýþÃÂþòð, ÃÂÃÂÃÂ. 41-42 ò øÃÂÃÂþÃÂýøúõ. ÃÂõ òÃÂõ ñÃÂúòààýõóþ õÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÿÃÂðòþÿøÃÂðýøõ ýð÷òðýøù ôÃÂÃÂóøàñÃÂúò ÿþ Russian alphabet ò ðýóûøùÃÂúþù òøúøÿõôøø.
ÃÂöøÃÂð ñÃÂûð þÃÂüõýõýð ÃÂõÃÂÃÂþü I, ÿþÃÂþü ÃÂþ òòþôøûðÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂþ þÃÂüõýÃÂûðÃÂÃÂ, ú úþýÃÂà19 òõúð ÃÂþÃÂüðûÃÂýþ þÃÂÃÂðûðÃÂÃÂ, ýþ ò óÃÂðüüðÃÂøúõ 1870-àÿøÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþ þýð ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàÃÂþûÃÂúþ ò þôýþü ÃÂûþòõ : üõÃÂþ. ï ýõ ÃÂòõÃÂõý, ÿÃÂðòøûÃÂýþ ûø ñÃÂûþ ÿøÃÂðÃÂàøöøÃÂð øûø õöøÃÂð.
PS: ÃÂÃÂðÃÂÃÂõ ýð÷òðýøàÃÂÃÂðûø òÃÂàþôøÃÂàø÷ ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûõýøàø ÷ðüõýÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂàýþòÃÂüø àúþýÃÂð 19 òõúð. âðú, ýð÷òðýøõ "ÃÂòÃÂÃÂôÃÂù ÷ýðú" òÿõÃÂòÃÂõ ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàò ÃÂþÃÂÿÃÂÃÂõ ÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂúþóþ ÃÂ÷ÃÂúð ò 1875 óþôà(ÿÃÂÃÂõòÃÂõ ÷ðüõÃÂúø), ð òÃÂþÃÂþù ÃÂð÷ ò 1896 óþôà("ÃÂûõÃÂÃÂ" ÃÂÃÂÿÃÂøýð). "ÃÂÃÂ" ò ÃÂþàÿõÃÂøþô ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàÃÂþûÃÂúþ ò ÃÂõÃÂø ôõÃÂõù ø üðûþóÃÂðüþÃÂýÃÂàÿõÃÂÃÂþýðöõù, ýðÿÃÂøüõÃÂ:
ÃÂõûþ øôÃÂààþÃÂþÃÂþ, ÃÂÃÂñð ñÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂþ ÿþÃÂÃÂøóðõàÿÃÂõüÃÂôÃÂþÃÂÃÂàÃÂÃÂõýøàø ÿøÃÂÃÂüð,
ÿðÃÂúðõàÃÂõÃÂýøûðüø ø ÿðûÃÂÃÂàø ýþÃÂ, ÃÂðýÃÂÃÂúð àüÃÂÃÂøÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ñðÃÂøàõÃÂàóÃÂÃÂõ,
ÃÂõü ûõÃÂþü, ÿøÃÂõàòüõÃÂÃÂþ ñÃÂúòàëÃÂû òõ÷ôõ ÃÂòÃÂÃÂôÃÂù ÷ýðú, òõÃÂÃÂòúð àýõóþ
òÃÂàþôøàòÃÂõòúð, òõÃÂàþü â òÃÂàþü. ÃÂþóôð ÃÂÃÂøÃÂõûÃÂýøÃÂð þñÃÂÃÂÃÂýÃÂõÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþ ÃÂÃÂþ
ýõ ÃÂðú, þý ÃÂþûøôýþ ÃÂÿþÃÂøÃÂ: â àúðú öõ? ëÃÂÃÂû â ò ýÃÂü ÃÂÃÂð÷àôòõ ñÃÂúòÃÂ, ÃÂ
ø ÿøÃÂàõÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþñàÃÂúþÃÂõõ ñÃÂûþ ýðÿøÃÂðýþ⦠ÃÂõÃÂàõÃÂð? àôõôÃÂÃÂúð óþòþÃÂøàâÂÂ
õÃÂÃÂàþý? àúþýÃÂõ ÃÂûþò? ÃÂü⦠[ÃÂðúÃÂøü ÃÂþÃÂÃÂúøù. ÃÂþûÃÂÃÂðàûÃÂñþòà(1912)]
1
ÃÂöøÃÂð øÃÂÿþûÃÂ÷þòðûðÃÂàò ÃÂûþòðàóÃÂõÃÂõÃÂúþóþ ÿÃÂþøÃÂàþöôõýøàÿøÃÂðòÃÂøàÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ øÿÃÂøûþý: "üõÃÂþ", "õÃÂÃÂþô", "ÃÂõýþô". ÃÂþÃÂÃÂõÿõýýþ òÃÂõ þýø ÃÂÃÂðûø ÿøÃÂðÃÂÃÂÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø".
â Vitaly
Aug 8 at 20:55
2
@Vitaly - ÃÂõÃÂõ÷ òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø". ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ - ÃÂÃÂþ i.
â user31264
Aug 10 at 17:22
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up vote
7
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accepted
up vote
7
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accepted
ÃÂþÃÂúþûÃÂúàþÃÂòõÃÂàò þôýþ ÿÃÂõôûþöõýøõ, ýðÃÂúþûÃÂúþ àÿþüýÃÂ, ÿÃÂþÃÂøò ÿÃÂðòøû (ò ÃÂðúøàÃÂûÃÂÃÂðÃÂàÃÂõúþüõýôÃÂõÃÂÃÂàôðÃÂàñþûÃÂÃÂõ øýÃÂþÃÂüðÃÂøø), ôðàýð÷òðýøõ òÃÂõàñÃÂúò.
ÃÂð÷òðýøàñÃÂúò ò ÃÂÃÂðÃÂþù þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøø. àúòðôÃÂðÃÂýÃÂàÃÂúþñúðàÃÂðüð ñÃÂúòð, õÃÂûø þýð ýõ ÃÂþòÿðôðõààÿõÃÂòþù ñÃÂúòþù ýð÷òðýøÃÂ. àúÃÂÃÂóûÃÂàÃÂúþñúðàòðÃÂøðýàýð÷òðýøàøûø (úÃÂÃÂÃÂøòþü) üþàÿÃÂøüõÃÂðýøõ.
ð÷ÃÂ, ñÃÂúø, òãôø, óûðóþûÃÂ, ôþñÃÂþ, õÃÂÃÂÃÂ, öøòãÃÂõ, ÷õüûÃÂ, øöõ (ø òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ), i (i ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ), ø ÃÂàúÃÂðÃÂúþù (ýõ ÃÂòõÃÂõý, ÃÂÃÂþ ÃÂÃÂøÃÂðûþÃÂàþÃÂôõûÃÂýþù ñÃÂúòþù), úðúþ, ûÃÂôø, üÃÂÃÂûãÃÂõ, ýðÃÂÃÂ, þýÃÂ, ÿþúþù, ÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂûþòþ, ÃÂòõÃÂôþ, ÃÂúÃÂ, ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂ
ãÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂõÃÂòÃÂ, ÃÂð, ÃÂð, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, ÃÂÃÂà[ã]
, à(þñþÃÂþÃÂýþõ ÃÂ), ÃÂ, ÃÂ, óøÃÂð (ò ÃÂþòÃÂõüõýýþù þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøø - ÃÂøÃÂð), øöøÃÂð [õ]
.
ÃÂÃÂðòþÿøÃÂðýøõ ýð÷òðýøù ñÃÂúò ÿþ úýøóõ "àþÃÂÃÂiùÃÂúðàóÃÂðüüðÃÂøúð" ÃÂþüþýþÃÂþòð, ÃÂÃÂÃÂ. 41-42 ò øÃÂÃÂþÃÂýøúõ. ÃÂõ òÃÂõ ñÃÂúòààýõóþ õÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÿÃÂðòþÿøÃÂðýøõ ýð÷òðýøù ôÃÂÃÂóøàñÃÂúò ÿþ Russian alphabet ò ðýóûøùÃÂúþù òøúøÿõôøø.
ÃÂöøÃÂð ñÃÂûð þÃÂüõýõýð ÃÂõÃÂÃÂþü I, ÿþÃÂþü ÃÂþ òòþôøûðÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂþ þÃÂüõýÃÂûðÃÂÃÂ, ú úþýÃÂà19 òõúð ÃÂþÃÂüðûÃÂýþ þÃÂÃÂðûðÃÂÃÂ, ýþ ò óÃÂðüüðÃÂøúõ 1870-àÿøÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþ þýð ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàÃÂþûÃÂúþ ò þôýþü ÃÂûþòõ : üõÃÂþ. ï ýõ ÃÂòõÃÂõý, ÿÃÂðòøûÃÂýþ ûø ñÃÂûþ ÿøÃÂðÃÂàøöøÃÂð øûø õöøÃÂð.
PS: ÃÂÃÂðÃÂÃÂõ ýð÷òðýøàÃÂÃÂðûø òÃÂàþôøÃÂàø÷ ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûõýøàø ÷ðüõýÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂàýþòÃÂüø àúþýÃÂð 19 òõúð. âðú, ýð÷òðýøõ "ÃÂòÃÂÃÂôÃÂù ÷ýðú" òÿõÃÂòÃÂõ ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàò ÃÂþÃÂÿÃÂÃÂõ ÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂúþóþ ÃÂ÷ÃÂúð ò 1875 óþôà(ÿÃÂÃÂõòÃÂõ ÷ðüõÃÂúø), ð òÃÂþÃÂþù ÃÂð÷ ò 1896 óþôà("ÃÂûõÃÂÃÂ" ÃÂÃÂÿÃÂøýð). "ÃÂÃÂ" ò ÃÂþàÿõÃÂøþô ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàÃÂþûÃÂúþ ò ÃÂõÃÂø ôõÃÂõù ø üðûþóÃÂðüþÃÂýÃÂàÿõÃÂÃÂþýðöõù, ýðÿÃÂøüõÃÂ:
ÃÂõûþ øôÃÂààþÃÂþÃÂþ, ÃÂÃÂñð ñÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂþ ÿþÃÂÃÂøóðõàÿÃÂõüÃÂôÃÂþÃÂÃÂàÃÂÃÂõýøàø ÿøÃÂÃÂüð,
ÿðÃÂúðõàÃÂõÃÂýøûðüø ø ÿðûÃÂÃÂàø ýþÃÂ, ÃÂðýÃÂÃÂúð àüÃÂÃÂøÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ñðÃÂøàõÃÂàóÃÂÃÂõ,
ÃÂõü ûõÃÂþü, ÿøÃÂõàòüõÃÂÃÂþ ñÃÂúòàëÃÂû òõ÷ôõ ÃÂòÃÂÃÂôÃÂù ÷ýðú, òõÃÂÃÂòúð àýõóþ
òÃÂàþôøàòÃÂõòúð, òõÃÂàþü â òÃÂàþü. ÃÂþóôð ÃÂÃÂøÃÂõûÃÂýøÃÂð þñÃÂÃÂÃÂýÃÂõÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþ ÃÂÃÂþ
ýõ ÃÂðú, þý ÃÂþûøôýþ ÃÂÿþÃÂøÃÂ: â àúðú öõ? ëÃÂÃÂû â ò ýÃÂü ÃÂÃÂð÷àôòõ ñÃÂúòÃÂ, ÃÂ
ø ÿøÃÂàõÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþñàÃÂúþÃÂõõ ñÃÂûþ ýðÿøÃÂðýþ⦠ÃÂõÃÂàõÃÂð? àôõôÃÂÃÂúð óþòþÃÂøàâÂÂ
õÃÂÃÂàþý? àúþýÃÂõ ÃÂûþò? ÃÂü⦠[ÃÂðúÃÂøü ÃÂþÃÂÃÂúøù. ÃÂþûÃÂÃÂðàûÃÂñþòà(1912)]
ÃÂþÃÂúþûÃÂúàþÃÂòõÃÂàò þôýþ ÿÃÂõôûþöõýøõ, ýðÃÂúþûÃÂúþ àÿþüýÃÂ, ÿÃÂþÃÂøò ÿÃÂðòøû (ò ÃÂðúøàÃÂûÃÂÃÂðÃÂàÃÂõúþüõýôÃÂõÃÂÃÂàôðÃÂàñþûÃÂÃÂõ øýÃÂþÃÂüðÃÂøø), ôðàýð÷òðýøõ òÃÂõàñÃÂúò.
ÃÂð÷òðýøàñÃÂúò ò ÃÂÃÂðÃÂþù þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøø. àúòðôÃÂðÃÂýÃÂàÃÂúþñúðàÃÂðüð ñÃÂúòð, õÃÂûø þýð ýõ ÃÂþòÿðôðõààÿõÃÂòþù ñÃÂúòþù ýð÷òðýøÃÂ. àúÃÂÃÂóûÃÂàÃÂúþñúðàòðÃÂøðýàýð÷òðýøàøûø (úÃÂÃÂÃÂøòþü) üþàÿÃÂøüõÃÂðýøõ.
ð÷ÃÂ, ñÃÂúø, òãôø, óûðóþûÃÂ, ôþñÃÂþ, õÃÂÃÂÃÂ, öøòãÃÂõ, ÷õüûÃÂ, øöõ (ø òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ), i (i ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ), ø ÃÂàúÃÂðÃÂúþù (ýõ ÃÂòõÃÂõý, ÃÂÃÂþ ÃÂÃÂøÃÂðûþÃÂàþÃÂôõûÃÂýþù ñÃÂúòþù), úðúþ, ûÃÂôø, üÃÂÃÂûãÃÂõ, ýðÃÂÃÂ, þýÃÂ, ÿþúþù, ÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂûþòþ, ÃÂòõÃÂôþ, ÃÂúÃÂ, ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂ
ãÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂõÃÂòÃÂ, ÃÂð, ÃÂð, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, õÃÂà[ÃÂ]
, ÃÂÃÂà[ã]
, à(þñþÃÂþÃÂýþõ ÃÂ), ÃÂ, ÃÂ, óøÃÂð (ò ÃÂþòÃÂõüõýýþù þÃÂÃÂþóÃÂðÃÂøø - ÃÂøÃÂð), øöøÃÂð [õ]
.
ÃÂÃÂðòþÿøÃÂðýøõ ýð÷òðýøù ñÃÂúò ÿþ úýøóõ "àþÃÂÃÂiùÃÂúðàóÃÂðüüðÃÂøúð" ÃÂþüþýþÃÂþòð, ÃÂÃÂÃÂ. 41-42 ò øÃÂÃÂþÃÂýøúõ. ÃÂõ òÃÂõ ñÃÂúòààýõóþ õÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÿÃÂðòþÿøÃÂðýøõ ýð÷òðýøù ôÃÂÃÂóøàñÃÂúò ÿþ Russian alphabet ò ðýóûøùÃÂúþù òøúøÿõôøø.
ÃÂöøÃÂð ñÃÂûð þÃÂüõýõýð ÃÂõÃÂÃÂþü I, ÿþÃÂþü ÃÂþ òòþôøûðÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂþ þÃÂüõýÃÂûðÃÂÃÂ, ú úþýÃÂà19 òõúð ÃÂþÃÂüðûÃÂýþ þÃÂÃÂðûðÃÂÃÂ, ýþ ò óÃÂðüüðÃÂøúõ 1870-àÿøÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþ þýð ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàÃÂþûÃÂúþ ò þôýþü ÃÂûþòõ : üõÃÂþ. ï ýõ ÃÂòõÃÂõý, ÿÃÂðòøûÃÂýþ ûø ñÃÂûþ ÿøÃÂðÃÂàøöøÃÂð øûø õöøÃÂð.
PS: ÃÂÃÂðÃÂÃÂõ ýð÷òðýøàÃÂÃÂðûø òÃÂàþôøÃÂàø÷ ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûõýøàø ÷ðüõýÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂàýþòÃÂüø àúþýÃÂð 19 òõúð. âðú, ýð÷òðýøõ "ÃÂòÃÂÃÂôÃÂù ÷ýðú" òÿõÃÂòÃÂõ ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàò ÃÂþÃÂÿÃÂÃÂõ ÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂúþóþ ÃÂ÷ÃÂúð ò 1875 óþôà(ÿÃÂÃÂõòÃÂõ ÷ðüõÃÂúø), ð òÃÂþÃÂþù ÃÂð÷ ò 1896 óþôà("ÃÂûõÃÂÃÂ" ÃÂÃÂÿÃÂøýð). "ÃÂÃÂ" ò ÃÂþàÿõÃÂøþô ÃÂÿþÃÂÃÂõñûÃÂõÃÂÃÂàÃÂþûÃÂúþ ò ÃÂõÃÂø ôõÃÂõù ø üðûþóÃÂðüþÃÂýÃÂàÿõÃÂÃÂþýðöõù, ýðÿÃÂøüõÃÂ:
ÃÂõûþ øôÃÂààþÃÂþÃÂþ, ÃÂÃÂñð ñÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂþ ÿþÃÂÃÂøóðõàÿÃÂõüÃÂôÃÂþÃÂÃÂàÃÂÃÂõýøàø ÿøÃÂÃÂüð,
ÿðÃÂúðõàÃÂõÃÂýøûðüø ø ÿðûÃÂÃÂàø ýþÃÂ, ÃÂðýÃÂÃÂúð àüÃÂÃÂøÃÂÃÂÃÂ, ñðÃÂøàõÃÂàóÃÂÃÂõ,
ÃÂõü ûõÃÂþü, ÿøÃÂõàòüõÃÂÃÂþ ñÃÂúòàëÃÂû òõ÷ôõ ÃÂòÃÂÃÂôÃÂù ÷ýðú, òõÃÂÃÂòúð àýõóþ
òÃÂàþôøàòÃÂõòúð, òõÃÂàþü â òÃÂàþü. ÃÂþóôð ÃÂÃÂøÃÂõûÃÂýøÃÂð þñÃÂÃÂÃÂýÃÂõÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþ ÃÂÃÂþ
ýõ ÃÂðú, þý ÃÂþûøôýþ ÃÂÿþÃÂøÃÂ: â àúðú öõ? ëÃÂÃÂû â ò ýÃÂü ÃÂÃÂð÷àôòõ ñÃÂúòÃÂ, ÃÂ
ø ÿøÃÂàõÃÂ, ÃÂÃÂþñàÃÂúþÃÂõõ ñÃÂûþ ýðÿøÃÂðýþ⦠ÃÂõÃÂàõÃÂð? àôõôÃÂÃÂúð óþòþÃÂøàâÂÂ
õÃÂÃÂàþý? àúþýÃÂõ ÃÂûþò? ÃÂü⦠[ÃÂðúÃÂøü ÃÂþÃÂÃÂúøù. ÃÂþûÃÂÃÂðàûÃÂñþòà(1912)]
edited Aug 10 at 17:27
answered Aug 8 at 19:35
user31264
6,70311136
6,70311136
1
ÃÂöøÃÂð øÃÂÿþûÃÂ÷þòðûðÃÂàò ÃÂûþòðàóÃÂõÃÂõÃÂúþóþ ÿÃÂþøÃÂàþöôõýøàÿøÃÂðòÃÂøàÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ øÿÃÂøûþý: "üõÃÂþ", "õÃÂÃÂþô", "ÃÂõýþô". ÃÂþÃÂÃÂõÿõýýþ òÃÂõ þýø ÃÂÃÂðûø ÿøÃÂðÃÂÃÂÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø".
â Vitaly
Aug 8 at 20:55
2
@Vitaly - ÃÂõÃÂõ÷ òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø". ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ - ÃÂÃÂþ i.
â user31264
Aug 10 at 17:22
add a comment |Â
1
ÃÂöøÃÂð øÃÂÿþûÃÂ÷þòðûðÃÂàò ÃÂûþòðàóÃÂõÃÂõÃÂúþóþ ÿÃÂþøÃÂàþöôõýøàÿøÃÂðòÃÂøàÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ øÿÃÂøûþý: "üõÃÂþ", "õÃÂÃÂþô", "ÃÂõýþô". ÃÂþÃÂÃÂõÿõýýþ òÃÂõ þýø ÃÂÃÂðûø ÿøÃÂðÃÂÃÂÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø".
â Vitaly
Aug 8 at 20:55
2
@Vitaly - ÃÂõÃÂõ÷ òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø". ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ - ÃÂÃÂþ i.
â user31264
Aug 10 at 17:22
1
1
ÃÂöøÃÂð øÃÂÿþûÃÂ÷þòðûðÃÂàò ÃÂûþòðàóÃÂõÃÂõÃÂúþóþ ÿÃÂþøÃÂàþöôõýøàÿøÃÂðòÃÂøàÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ øÿÃÂøûþý: "üõÃÂþ", "õÃÂÃÂþô", "ÃÂõýþô". ÃÂþÃÂÃÂõÿõýýþ òÃÂõ þýø ÃÂÃÂðûø ÿøÃÂðÃÂÃÂÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø".
â Vitaly
Aug 8 at 20:55
ÃÂöøÃÂð øÃÂÿþûÃÂ÷þòðûðÃÂàò ÃÂûþòðàóÃÂõÃÂõÃÂúþóþ ÿÃÂþøÃÂàþöôõýøàÿøÃÂðòÃÂøàÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ øÿÃÂøûþý: "üõÃÂþ", "õÃÂÃÂþô", "ÃÂõýþô". ÃÂþÃÂÃÂõÿõýýþ òÃÂõ þýø ÃÂÃÂðûø ÿøÃÂðÃÂÃÂÃÂàÃÂõÃÂõ÷ ôõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø".
â Vitaly
Aug 8 at 20:55
2
2
@Vitaly - ÃÂõÃÂõ÷ òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø". ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ - ÃÂÃÂþ i.
â user31264
Aug 10 at 17:22
@Vitaly - ÃÂõÃÂõ÷ òþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ "ø". ÃÂõÃÂÃÂÃÂõÃÂøÃÂýþõ - ÃÂÃÂþ i.
â user31264
Aug 10 at 17:22
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
They're named ÃÂöõ and à(pronounced as [ø] i surmise) or àòþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ and àôõÃÂÃÂÃÂøÃÂøÃÂýþõ respectively [ 1 ] due to numerical values used to be assigned to them [ 2 ]
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
They're named ÃÂöõ and à(pronounced as [ø] i surmise) or àòþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ and àôõÃÂÃÂÃÂøÃÂøÃÂýþõ respectively [ 1 ] due to numerical values used to be assigned to them [ 2 ]
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
They're named ÃÂöõ and à(pronounced as [ø] i surmise) or àòþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ and àôõÃÂÃÂÃÂøÃÂøÃÂýþõ respectively [ 1 ] due to numerical values used to be assigned to them [ 2 ]
They're named ÃÂöõ and à(pronounced as [ø] i surmise) or àòþÃÂÃÂüõÃÂøÃÂýþõ and àôõÃÂÃÂÃÂøÃÂøÃÂýþõ respectively [ 1 ] due to numerical values used to be assigned to them [ 2 ]
edited Aug 8 at 18:23
answered Aug 8 at 18:11
ÃÂðÃÂý ÃÂÃÂÿø-úð
9,2931523
9,2931523
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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what have you research showed so far and why you've decided to ask here?
â shabuncâ¦
Aug 10 at 17:35