Matrix that are not upper triangular
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I saw in the book "Linear algebra done right" (by S. Axler) that all complex operator has a Jordan form. The proof is based on the fact that all complex operator is upper triangular (i.e. there is a basis s.t. the matrix is upper triangular). My questions are the following :
1) Could you give me an example of operator that is not upper triangular (I guess such an operator has no eigenvalue... may be an operator with $x^2+1$ as polynomial characteristic ?)
2) If an operator has at least one eigenvalue, does it has a Jordan form ? (in the proof of Axler it's indeed based on the fact that it has an eigenvalue, but also on the fact that the characteristic polynomial is of the form $(x-lambda _1)^m_1...(x-lambda _n)^m_n$ (btw how do you call such a form ? in french we say "scindé" but I didn't find an english equivalent on wikipedia). So I guess that a characteristic polynomial of the form $x^2+x+1$ will not have a Jordan form even not a upper triangular form... but these are just supposition, and if anyone can confirm or not, I would be very happe :)
linear-algebra eigenvalues-eigenvectors jordan-normal-form
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I saw in the book "Linear algebra done right" (by S. Axler) that all complex operator has a Jordan form. The proof is based on the fact that all complex operator is upper triangular (i.e. there is a basis s.t. the matrix is upper triangular). My questions are the following :
1) Could you give me an example of operator that is not upper triangular (I guess such an operator has no eigenvalue... may be an operator with $x^2+1$ as polynomial characteristic ?)
2) If an operator has at least one eigenvalue, does it has a Jordan form ? (in the proof of Axler it's indeed based on the fact that it has an eigenvalue, but also on the fact that the characteristic polynomial is of the form $(x-lambda _1)^m_1...(x-lambda _n)^m_n$ (btw how do you call such a form ? in french we say "scindé" but I didn't find an english equivalent on wikipedia). So I guess that a characteristic polynomial of the form $x^2+x+1$ will not have a Jordan form even not a upper triangular form... but these are just supposition, and if anyone can confirm or not, I would be very happe :)
linear-algebra eigenvalues-eigenvectors jordan-normal-form
I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
â user296113
Aug 8 at 20:47
I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
â Will Jagy
Aug 8 at 21:10
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I saw in the book "Linear algebra done right" (by S. Axler) that all complex operator has a Jordan form. The proof is based on the fact that all complex operator is upper triangular (i.e. there is a basis s.t. the matrix is upper triangular). My questions are the following :
1) Could you give me an example of operator that is not upper triangular (I guess such an operator has no eigenvalue... may be an operator with $x^2+1$ as polynomial characteristic ?)
2) If an operator has at least one eigenvalue, does it has a Jordan form ? (in the proof of Axler it's indeed based on the fact that it has an eigenvalue, but also on the fact that the characteristic polynomial is of the form $(x-lambda _1)^m_1...(x-lambda _n)^m_n$ (btw how do you call such a form ? in french we say "scindé" but I didn't find an english equivalent on wikipedia). So I guess that a characteristic polynomial of the form $x^2+x+1$ will not have a Jordan form even not a upper triangular form... but these are just supposition, and if anyone can confirm or not, I would be very happe :)
linear-algebra eigenvalues-eigenvectors jordan-normal-form
I saw in the book "Linear algebra done right" (by S. Axler) that all complex operator has a Jordan form. The proof is based on the fact that all complex operator is upper triangular (i.e. there is a basis s.t. the matrix is upper triangular). My questions are the following :
1) Could you give me an example of operator that is not upper triangular (I guess such an operator has no eigenvalue... may be an operator with $x^2+1$ as polynomial characteristic ?)
2) If an operator has at least one eigenvalue, does it has a Jordan form ? (in the proof of Axler it's indeed based on the fact that it has an eigenvalue, but also on the fact that the characteristic polynomial is of the form $(x-lambda _1)^m_1...(x-lambda _n)^m_n$ (btw how do you call such a form ? in french we say "scindé" but I didn't find an english equivalent on wikipedia). So I guess that a characteristic polynomial of the form $x^2+x+1$ will not have a Jordan form even not a upper triangular form... but these are just supposition, and if anyone can confirm or not, I would be very happe :)
linear-algebra eigenvalues-eigenvectors jordan-normal-form
edited Aug 8 at 20:40
José Carlos Santos
115k1699177
115k1699177
asked Aug 8 at 20:33
user352653
350212
350212
I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
â user296113
Aug 8 at 20:47
I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
â Will Jagy
Aug 8 at 21:10
add a comment |Â
I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
â user296113
Aug 8 at 20:47
I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
â Will Jagy
Aug 8 at 21:10
I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
â user296113
Aug 8 at 20:47
I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
â user296113
Aug 8 at 20:47
I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
â Will Jagy
Aug 8 at 21:10
I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
â Will Jagy
Aug 8 at 21:10
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
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Consider the map $TcolonmathbbR^2longrightarrowmathbbR^2$ defined by $T(x,y)=(-y,x)$. There is no basis of $mathbbR^2$ such that the matrix of $T$ with respect to that basis is upper triangular. Note that, as you suspected, $T$ has no (real) eigenvalues.
And the map $UcolonmathbbR^3longrightarrowmathbbR^3$ defined by $U(x,y,z)=(-y,x,0)$ has one eigenvalue ($0$), but no Jordan form.
So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
â user352653
Aug 8 at 22:16
@user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 8 at 22:19
So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
â user352653
Aug 9 at 9:39
@user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 9 at 10:33
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
Consider the map $TcolonmathbbR^2longrightarrowmathbbR^2$ defined by $T(x,y)=(-y,x)$. There is no basis of $mathbbR^2$ such that the matrix of $T$ with respect to that basis is upper triangular. Note that, as you suspected, $T$ has no (real) eigenvalues.
And the map $UcolonmathbbR^3longrightarrowmathbbR^3$ defined by $U(x,y,z)=(-y,x,0)$ has one eigenvalue ($0$), but no Jordan form.
So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
â user352653
Aug 8 at 22:16
@user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 8 at 22:19
So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
â user352653
Aug 9 at 9:39
@user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 9 at 10:33
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Consider the map $TcolonmathbbR^2longrightarrowmathbbR^2$ defined by $T(x,y)=(-y,x)$. There is no basis of $mathbbR^2$ such that the matrix of $T$ with respect to that basis is upper triangular. Note that, as you suspected, $T$ has no (real) eigenvalues.
And the map $UcolonmathbbR^3longrightarrowmathbbR^3$ defined by $U(x,y,z)=(-y,x,0)$ has one eigenvalue ($0$), but no Jordan form.
So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
â user352653
Aug 8 at 22:16
@user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 8 at 22:19
So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
â user352653
Aug 9 at 9:39
@user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 9 at 10:33
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Consider the map $TcolonmathbbR^2longrightarrowmathbbR^2$ defined by $T(x,y)=(-y,x)$. There is no basis of $mathbbR^2$ such that the matrix of $T$ with respect to that basis is upper triangular. Note that, as you suspected, $T$ has no (real) eigenvalues.
And the map $UcolonmathbbR^3longrightarrowmathbbR^3$ defined by $U(x,y,z)=(-y,x,0)$ has one eigenvalue ($0$), but no Jordan form.
Consider the map $TcolonmathbbR^2longrightarrowmathbbR^2$ defined by $T(x,y)=(-y,x)$. There is no basis of $mathbbR^2$ such that the matrix of $T$ with respect to that basis is upper triangular. Note that, as you suspected, $T$ has no (real) eigenvalues.
And the map $UcolonmathbbR^3longrightarrowmathbbR^3$ defined by $U(x,y,z)=(-y,x,0)$ has one eigenvalue ($0$), but no Jordan form.
answered Aug 8 at 20:37
José Carlos Santos
115k1699177
115k1699177
So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
â user352653
Aug 8 at 22:16
@user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 8 at 22:19
So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
â user352653
Aug 9 at 9:39
@user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 9 at 10:33
add a comment |Â
So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
â user352653
Aug 8 at 22:16
@user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 8 at 22:19
So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
â user352653
Aug 9 at 9:39
@user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 9 at 10:33
So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
â user352653
Aug 8 at 22:16
So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
â user352653
Aug 8 at 22:16
@user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 8 at 22:19
@user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 8 at 22:19
So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
â user352653
Aug 9 at 9:39
So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
â user352653
Aug 9 at 9:39
@user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 9 at 10:33
@user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
â José Carlos Santos
Aug 9 at 10:33
add a comment |Â
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I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
â user296113
Aug 8 at 20:47
I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
â Will Jagy
Aug 8 at 21:10