Matrix that are not upper triangular

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I saw in the book "Linear algebra done right" (by S. Axler) that all complex operator has a Jordan form. The proof is based on the fact that all complex operator is upper triangular (i.e. there is a basis s.t. the matrix is upper triangular). My questions are the following :



  • 1) Could you give me an example of operator that is not upper triangular (I guess such an operator has no eigenvalue... may be an operator with $x^2+1$ as polynomial characteristic ?)


  • 2) If an operator has at least one eigenvalue, does it has a Jordan form ? (in the proof of Axler it's indeed based on the fact that it has an eigenvalue, but also on the fact that the characteristic polynomial is of the form $(x-lambda _1)^m_1...(x-lambda _n)^m_n$ (btw how do you call such a form ? in french we say "scindé" but I didn't find an english equivalent on wikipedia). So I guess that a characteristic polynomial of the form $x^2+x+1$ will not have a Jordan form even not a upper triangular form... but these are just supposition, and if anyone can confirm or not, I would be very happe :)







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  • I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
    – user296113
    Aug 8 at 20:47










  • I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
    – Will Jagy
    Aug 8 at 21:10















up vote
1
down vote

favorite












I saw in the book "Linear algebra done right" (by S. Axler) that all complex operator has a Jordan form. The proof is based on the fact that all complex operator is upper triangular (i.e. there is a basis s.t. the matrix is upper triangular). My questions are the following :



  • 1) Could you give me an example of operator that is not upper triangular (I guess such an operator has no eigenvalue... may be an operator with $x^2+1$ as polynomial characteristic ?)


  • 2) If an operator has at least one eigenvalue, does it has a Jordan form ? (in the proof of Axler it's indeed based on the fact that it has an eigenvalue, but also on the fact that the characteristic polynomial is of the form $(x-lambda _1)^m_1...(x-lambda _n)^m_n$ (btw how do you call such a form ? in french we say "scindé" but I didn't find an english equivalent on wikipedia). So I guess that a characteristic polynomial of the form $x^2+x+1$ will not have a Jordan form even not a upper triangular form... but these are just supposition, and if anyone can confirm or not, I would be very happe :)







share|cite|improve this question






















  • I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
    – user296113
    Aug 8 at 20:47










  • I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
    – Will Jagy
    Aug 8 at 21:10













up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











I saw in the book "Linear algebra done right" (by S. Axler) that all complex operator has a Jordan form. The proof is based on the fact that all complex operator is upper triangular (i.e. there is a basis s.t. the matrix is upper triangular). My questions are the following :



  • 1) Could you give me an example of operator that is not upper triangular (I guess such an operator has no eigenvalue... may be an operator with $x^2+1$ as polynomial characteristic ?)


  • 2) If an operator has at least one eigenvalue, does it has a Jordan form ? (in the proof of Axler it's indeed based on the fact that it has an eigenvalue, but also on the fact that the characteristic polynomial is of the form $(x-lambda _1)^m_1...(x-lambda _n)^m_n$ (btw how do you call such a form ? in french we say "scindé" but I didn't find an english equivalent on wikipedia). So I guess that a characteristic polynomial of the form $x^2+x+1$ will not have a Jordan form even not a upper triangular form... but these are just supposition, and if anyone can confirm or not, I would be very happe :)







share|cite|improve this question














I saw in the book "Linear algebra done right" (by S. Axler) that all complex operator has a Jordan form. The proof is based on the fact that all complex operator is upper triangular (i.e. there is a basis s.t. the matrix is upper triangular). My questions are the following :



  • 1) Could you give me an example of operator that is not upper triangular (I guess such an operator has no eigenvalue... may be an operator with $x^2+1$ as polynomial characteristic ?)


  • 2) If an operator has at least one eigenvalue, does it has a Jordan form ? (in the proof of Axler it's indeed based on the fact that it has an eigenvalue, but also on the fact that the characteristic polynomial is of the form $(x-lambda _1)^m_1...(x-lambda _n)^m_n$ (btw how do you call such a form ? in french we say "scindé" but I didn't find an english equivalent on wikipedia). So I guess that a characteristic polynomial of the form $x^2+x+1$ will not have a Jordan form even not a upper triangular form... but these are just supposition, and if anyone can confirm or not, I would be very happe :)









share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




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edited Aug 8 at 20:40









José Carlos Santos

115k1699177




115k1699177










asked Aug 8 at 20:33









user352653

350212




350212











  • I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
    – user296113
    Aug 8 at 20:47










  • I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
    – Will Jagy
    Aug 8 at 21:10

















  • I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
    – user296113
    Aug 8 at 20:47










  • I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
    – Will Jagy
    Aug 8 at 21:10
















I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
– user296113
Aug 8 at 20:47




I think that "polynôme scindé" in french means "polynomial splits into linear factors" in englich.
– user296113
Aug 8 at 20:47












I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
– Will Jagy
Aug 8 at 21:10





I guess I would emphasize that a real matrix with complex eigenvalues does possess a Jordan form if we allow complex numbers. This would cover your $x^2 + x + 1$ example, trace $-1$ and determinant $1$ will do it, so $$ left( beginarraycc 0 & 1 \ -1 & -1 endarray right) $$
– Will Jagy
Aug 8 at 21:10











1 Answer
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Consider the map $TcolonmathbbR^2longrightarrowmathbbR^2$ defined by $T(x,y)=(-y,x)$. There is no basis of $mathbbR^2$ such that the matrix of $T$ with respect to that basis is upper triangular. Note that, as you suspected, $T$ has no (real) eigenvalues.



And the map $UcolonmathbbR^3longrightarrowmathbbR^3$ defined by $U(x,y,z)=(-y,x,0)$ has one eigenvalue ($0$), but no Jordan form.






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  • So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
    – user352653
    Aug 8 at 22:16










  • @user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 8 at 22:19










  • So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
    – user352653
    Aug 9 at 9:39










  • @user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 9 at 10:33










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1 Answer
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active

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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
3
down vote













Consider the map $TcolonmathbbR^2longrightarrowmathbbR^2$ defined by $T(x,y)=(-y,x)$. There is no basis of $mathbbR^2$ such that the matrix of $T$ with respect to that basis is upper triangular. Note that, as you suspected, $T$ has no (real) eigenvalues.



And the map $UcolonmathbbR^3longrightarrowmathbbR^3$ defined by $U(x,y,z)=(-y,x,0)$ has one eigenvalue ($0$), but no Jordan form.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
    – user352653
    Aug 8 at 22:16










  • @user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 8 at 22:19










  • So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
    – user352653
    Aug 9 at 9:39










  • @user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 9 at 10:33














up vote
3
down vote













Consider the map $TcolonmathbbR^2longrightarrowmathbbR^2$ defined by $T(x,y)=(-y,x)$. There is no basis of $mathbbR^2$ such that the matrix of $T$ with respect to that basis is upper triangular. Note that, as you suspected, $T$ has no (real) eigenvalues.



And the map $UcolonmathbbR^3longrightarrowmathbbR^3$ defined by $U(x,y,z)=(-y,x,0)$ has one eigenvalue ($0$), but no Jordan form.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
    – user352653
    Aug 8 at 22:16










  • @user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 8 at 22:19










  • So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
    – user352653
    Aug 9 at 9:39










  • @user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 9 at 10:33












up vote
3
down vote










up vote
3
down vote









Consider the map $TcolonmathbbR^2longrightarrowmathbbR^2$ defined by $T(x,y)=(-y,x)$. There is no basis of $mathbbR^2$ such that the matrix of $T$ with respect to that basis is upper triangular. Note that, as you suspected, $T$ has no (real) eigenvalues.



And the map $UcolonmathbbR^3longrightarrowmathbbR^3$ defined by $U(x,y,z)=(-y,x,0)$ has one eigenvalue ($0$), but no Jordan form.






share|cite|improve this answer












Consider the map $TcolonmathbbR^2longrightarrowmathbbR^2$ defined by $T(x,y)=(-y,x)$. There is no basis of $mathbbR^2$ such that the matrix of $T$ with respect to that basis is upper triangular. Note that, as you suspected, $T$ has no (real) eigenvalues.



And the map $UcolonmathbbR^3longrightarrowmathbbR^3$ defined by $U(x,y,z)=(-y,x,0)$ has one eigenvalue ($0$), but no Jordan form.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Aug 8 at 20:37









José Carlos Santos

115k1699177




115k1699177











  • So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
    – user352653
    Aug 8 at 22:16










  • @user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 8 at 22:19










  • So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
    – user352653
    Aug 9 at 9:39










  • @user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 9 at 10:33
















  • So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
    – user352653
    Aug 8 at 22:16










  • @user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 8 at 22:19










  • So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
    – user352653
    Aug 9 at 9:39










  • @user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 9 at 10:33















So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
– user352653
Aug 8 at 22:16




So Will Jaggy was not correct ? (because he look to say the opposite, i.e. that all endomorphism has a jordan form)
– user352653
Aug 8 at 22:16












@user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
– José Carlos Santos
Aug 8 at 22:19




@user352653 It has no Jordan form over the reals. Every complex endomorphism of a finite-dimensional complex vector space has a Jordan form over the complex field.
– José Carlos Santos
Aug 8 at 22:19












So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
– user352653
Aug 9 at 9:39




So do you agree with the fact that a matrix with polynomial characteristic $x^2+x+1$ has no jordan form, right ?
– user352653
Aug 9 at 9:39












@user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
– José Carlos Santos
Aug 9 at 10:33




@user352653 It has no Jordan form with real entries.
– José Carlos Santos
Aug 9 at 10:33












 

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