Dice roll probability game

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
2
down vote

favorite












I have a chance game I am creating and the best way to explain the problem is using a dice game analogy.
The game consists of 8 rounds. Each round involves throwing 3 dice. One die has 12 sides. One die has 20 sides and the last die has 30 sides.
During a round if a die is rolled lands on a 1 then that die is discarded from the rest of the rounds and an extra 2 bonus rounds are added to the game. The objective of the game is to discard all 3 dice before you complete all rounds. A game can have up to 12 rounds when you include the bonus rounds.
How can I calculate the probability of a game discarding all 3 dice?
The trick to this game is knowing that after I have one die discarded the other two have an extra 2 rounds to roll their 1. If the second die rolls a 1 then the final die has a further 2 rounds again. It is of course possible but unlikely that all die get discarded in the first round.
Thanks







share|cite|improve this question






















  • If two or three dice show $1$ on the same round, are they all discarded?
    – saulspatz
    Aug 8 at 17:10










  • Yes that is correct. In theory all 3 dice can roll a 1 on the same round to end the game then and there
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:11










  • If 2 die are discarded on the same round then four (2 for each) bonus rounds are added to try to discard therapy die.
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:13










  • Your dice are in reality coins with $p_rm head=1over12$, etc. Now draw a game tree.
    – Christian Blatter
    Aug 8 at 18:28














up vote
2
down vote

favorite












I have a chance game I am creating and the best way to explain the problem is using a dice game analogy.
The game consists of 8 rounds. Each round involves throwing 3 dice. One die has 12 sides. One die has 20 sides and the last die has 30 sides.
During a round if a die is rolled lands on a 1 then that die is discarded from the rest of the rounds and an extra 2 bonus rounds are added to the game. The objective of the game is to discard all 3 dice before you complete all rounds. A game can have up to 12 rounds when you include the bonus rounds.
How can I calculate the probability of a game discarding all 3 dice?
The trick to this game is knowing that after I have one die discarded the other two have an extra 2 rounds to roll their 1. If the second die rolls a 1 then the final die has a further 2 rounds again. It is of course possible but unlikely that all die get discarded in the first round.
Thanks







share|cite|improve this question






















  • If two or three dice show $1$ on the same round, are they all discarded?
    – saulspatz
    Aug 8 at 17:10










  • Yes that is correct. In theory all 3 dice can roll a 1 on the same round to end the game then and there
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:11










  • If 2 die are discarded on the same round then four (2 for each) bonus rounds are added to try to discard therapy die.
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:13










  • Your dice are in reality coins with $p_rm head=1over12$, etc. Now draw a game tree.
    – Christian Blatter
    Aug 8 at 18:28












up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite











I have a chance game I am creating and the best way to explain the problem is using a dice game analogy.
The game consists of 8 rounds. Each round involves throwing 3 dice. One die has 12 sides. One die has 20 sides and the last die has 30 sides.
During a round if a die is rolled lands on a 1 then that die is discarded from the rest of the rounds and an extra 2 bonus rounds are added to the game. The objective of the game is to discard all 3 dice before you complete all rounds. A game can have up to 12 rounds when you include the bonus rounds.
How can I calculate the probability of a game discarding all 3 dice?
The trick to this game is knowing that after I have one die discarded the other two have an extra 2 rounds to roll their 1. If the second die rolls a 1 then the final die has a further 2 rounds again. It is of course possible but unlikely that all die get discarded in the first round.
Thanks







share|cite|improve this question














I have a chance game I am creating and the best way to explain the problem is using a dice game analogy.
The game consists of 8 rounds. Each round involves throwing 3 dice. One die has 12 sides. One die has 20 sides and the last die has 30 sides.
During a round if a die is rolled lands on a 1 then that die is discarded from the rest of the rounds and an extra 2 bonus rounds are added to the game. The objective of the game is to discard all 3 dice before you complete all rounds. A game can have up to 12 rounds when you include the bonus rounds.
How can I calculate the probability of a game discarding all 3 dice?
The trick to this game is knowing that after I have one die discarded the other two have an extra 2 rounds to roll their 1. If the second die rolls a 1 then the final die has a further 2 rounds again. It is of course possible but unlikely that all die get discarded in the first round.
Thanks









share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Aug 8 at 17:11

























asked Aug 8 at 16:51









codetemplar

1396




1396











  • If two or three dice show $1$ on the same round, are they all discarded?
    – saulspatz
    Aug 8 at 17:10










  • Yes that is correct. In theory all 3 dice can roll a 1 on the same round to end the game then and there
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:11










  • If 2 die are discarded on the same round then four (2 for each) bonus rounds are added to try to discard therapy die.
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:13










  • Your dice are in reality coins with $p_rm head=1over12$, etc. Now draw a game tree.
    – Christian Blatter
    Aug 8 at 18:28
















  • If two or three dice show $1$ on the same round, are they all discarded?
    – saulspatz
    Aug 8 at 17:10










  • Yes that is correct. In theory all 3 dice can roll a 1 on the same round to end the game then and there
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:11










  • If 2 die are discarded on the same round then four (2 for each) bonus rounds are added to try to discard therapy die.
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:13










  • Your dice are in reality coins with $p_rm head=1over12$, etc. Now draw a game tree.
    – Christian Blatter
    Aug 8 at 18:28















If two or three dice show $1$ on the same round, are they all discarded?
– saulspatz
Aug 8 at 17:10




If two or three dice show $1$ on the same round, are they all discarded?
– saulspatz
Aug 8 at 17:10












Yes that is correct. In theory all 3 dice can roll a 1 on the same round to end the game then and there
– codetemplar
Aug 8 at 17:11




Yes that is correct. In theory all 3 dice can roll a 1 on the same round to end the game then and there
– codetemplar
Aug 8 at 17:11












If 2 die are discarded on the same round then four (2 for each) bonus rounds are added to try to discard therapy die.
– codetemplar
Aug 8 at 17:13




If 2 die are discarded on the same round then four (2 for each) bonus rounds are added to try to discard therapy die.
– codetemplar
Aug 8 at 17:13












Your dice are in reality coins with $p_rm head=1over12$, etc. Now draw a game tree.
– Christian Blatter
Aug 8 at 18:28




Your dice are in reality coins with $p_rm head=1over12$, etc. Now draw a game tree.
– Christian Blatter
Aug 8 at 18:28










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote



accepted










The probability of never discarding any die is $$left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^8$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die only is $$sum_k=0^7left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac1920frac2930right)left(frac1920frac2930right)^9-k$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die first and the $20$-die second is $$sum_k=0^7sum_l=0^9-kleft(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac1920frac2930right)left(frac1920frac2930right)^l left(frac120frac2930right)left(frac2930right)^10-k-l$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die and the $20$-die simultaneously, and never discarding the $30$-die is $$sum_k=0^7left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac120frac2930right)left(frac2930right)^11-k$$



From these formulas and their symmetric versions (discarding the $20$-die only, etc.) you can work out the probability of the complementary event.




Note that the formulas can be simplified a bit, e.g. the one with a double sum is $$left(frac2930right)^12left(frac112frac1920frac120right)
sum_k=0^7
left(frac1112frac1920right)^kcdot
sum_l=0^9-k
left(frac1920right)^l $$






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thanks for the reply! Does the formula you have provided for calculating the probability of discarding dice 1 first and then dice 2 also include the probability of both dice 1 and dice 2 being discarded on the same round? Thanks
    – codetemplar
    Aug 9 at 11:33










  • @codetemplar No, there is a separate formula underneath for the two discardings happening simultaneously (I wrote them separately to make it easier to generalize).
    – Arnaud Mortier
    Aug 9 at 12:38

















up vote
0
down vote













For $iin 1,2,3$, let $D_i,0$ be the event that die $i$ is not discarded and $D_i,1$ be the event that die $i$ is discarded.
We wish to calculate



$$p = mathbb Pbig(D_1,1cap D_2,1 cap D_3,1big).$$



Complimentary probability and De Morgan's laws yield that



beginalign
1-p
&=
mathbb Pleft(left(bigcap_i=1^3, D_i,1right)^complementright)
\&=
mathbb Pleft(bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,1^complementright)
\&=
mathbb Pleft(bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,0right)
endalign



We write $cup_i=1^3,D_i,0$ as a disjoint union of events:



beginalign
bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,0
quad=quad&
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)
\cup,,&
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)
cup left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)
cup left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)
\cup,,&
left(D_1,1 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)
cup left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)
cup left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,1right)
endalign



Do you think you can take it from here?




The probabilities for



$$left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)\
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)\
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)\
left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)$$



should be easy enough to calculate.



The probability for events of type $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)$ is a bit trickier.
Regardless of when each die, $i$ and $j$, roll $1$, die $k$ will definitely be rolled $12$ times.
It must not be discarded, so that gives us a factor of $(1-1/d_k)^12$ already, where $d_k$ is the number of sides of die $k$.



At this point, we need only consider the probability of $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$.
We can make this precise with conditional probability.
We have



$$
Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)
= underbraceBbb Pleft(D_k,0mid D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)_
(1-1/d_k)^12
cdot Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$$




Calculating $Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$ can be done similarly.
We use complimentary probability and De Morgan's laws again:



beginalign
Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)
&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)^complementright)
\&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(D_i,1^complement cup D_j,1^complementright)
\&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(D_i,0cup D_j,0right)
endalign



We write $D_i,0cup D_j,0$ as a disjoint union of events:



beginalign
D_i,0cup D_j,0
=quad &
(D_i,0cap D_j,0cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,0cap D_j,0cap D_k,1)
\cup,,&
(D_i,0cap D_j,1cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,0cap D_j,1cap D_k,1)
\cup,,&
(D_i,1cap D_j,0cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,1cap D_j,0cap D_k,1)
endalign



Can you see how this will yield a linear system relating the $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)$?






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thanks a lot for your answer. Unfortunately I am not sure I can finish it
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:51










  • I have expanded on it. Do you think you can finish now?
    – Fimpellizieri
    Aug 8 at 18:08










  • I believe I can now give it a good go, thanks
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 19:27










Your Answer




StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: false,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);








 

draft saved


draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2876316%2fdice-roll-probability-game%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest






























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
2
down vote



accepted










The probability of never discarding any die is $$left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^8$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die only is $$sum_k=0^7left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac1920frac2930right)left(frac1920frac2930right)^9-k$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die first and the $20$-die second is $$sum_k=0^7sum_l=0^9-kleft(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac1920frac2930right)left(frac1920frac2930right)^l left(frac120frac2930right)left(frac2930right)^10-k-l$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die and the $20$-die simultaneously, and never discarding the $30$-die is $$sum_k=0^7left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac120frac2930right)left(frac2930right)^11-k$$



From these formulas and their symmetric versions (discarding the $20$-die only, etc.) you can work out the probability of the complementary event.




Note that the formulas can be simplified a bit, e.g. the one with a double sum is $$left(frac2930right)^12left(frac112frac1920frac120right)
sum_k=0^7
left(frac1112frac1920right)^kcdot
sum_l=0^9-k
left(frac1920right)^l $$






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thanks for the reply! Does the formula you have provided for calculating the probability of discarding dice 1 first and then dice 2 also include the probability of both dice 1 and dice 2 being discarded on the same round? Thanks
    – codetemplar
    Aug 9 at 11:33










  • @codetemplar No, there is a separate formula underneath for the two discardings happening simultaneously (I wrote them separately to make it easier to generalize).
    – Arnaud Mortier
    Aug 9 at 12:38














up vote
2
down vote



accepted










The probability of never discarding any die is $$left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^8$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die only is $$sum_k=0^7left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac1920frac2930right)left(frac1920frac2930right)^9-k$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die first and the $20$-die second is $$sum_k=0^7sum_l=0^9-kleft(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac1920frac2930right)left(frac1920frac2930right)^l left(frac120frac2930right)left(frac2930right)^10-k-l$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die and the $20$-die simultaneously, and never discarding the $30$-die is $$sum_k=0^7left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac120frac2930right)left(frac2930right)^11-k$$



From these formulas and their symmetric versions (discarding the $20$-die only, etc.) you can work out the probability of the complementary event.




Note that the formulas can be simplified a bit, e.g. the one with a double sum is $$left(frac2930right)^12left(frac112frac1920frac120right)
sum_k=0^7
left(frac1112frac1920right)^kcdot
sum_l=0^9-k
left(frac1920right)^l $$






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thanks for the reply! Does the formula you have provided for calculating the probability of discarding dice 1 first and then dice 2 also include the probability of both dice 1 and dice 2 being discarded on the same round? Thanks
    – codetemplar
    Aug 9 at 11:33










  • @codetemplar No, there is a separate formula underneath for the two discardings happening simultaneously (I wrote them separately to make it easier to generalize).
    – Arnaud Mortier
    Aug 9 at 12:38












up vote
2
down vote



accepted







up vote
2
down vote



accepted






The probability of never discarding any die is $$left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^8$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die only is $$sum_k=0^7left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac1920frac2930right)left(frac1920frac2930right)^9-k$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die first and the $20$-die second is $$sum_k=0^7sum_l=0^9-kleft(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac1920frac2930right)left(frac1920frac2930right)^l left(frac120frac2930right)left(frac2930right)^10-k-l$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die and the $20$-die simultaneously, and never discarding the $30$-die is $$sum_k=0^7left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac120frac2930right)left(frac2930right)^11-k$$



From these formulas and their symmetric versions (discarding the $20$-die only, etc.) you can work out the probability of the complementary event.




Note that the formulas can be simplified a bit, e.g. the one with a double sum is $$left(frac2930right)^12left(frac112frac1920frac120right)
sum_k=0^7
left(frac1112frac1920right)^kcdot
sum_l=0^9-k
left(frac1920right)^l $$






share|cite|improve this answer














The probability of never discarding any die is $$left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^8$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die only is $$sum_k=0^7left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac1920frac2930right)left(frac1920frac2930right)^9-k$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die first and the $20$-die second is $$sum_k=0^7sum_l=0^9-kleft(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac1920frac2930right)left(frac1920frac2930right)^l left(frac120frac2930right)left(frac2930right)^10-k-l$$



The probability of discarding the $12$-die and the $20$-die simultaneously, and never discarding the $30$-die is $$sum_k=0^7left(frac1112frac1920frac2930right)^kleft(frac112frac120frac2930right)left(frac2930right)^11-k$$



From these formulas and their symmetric versions (discarding the $20$-die only, etc.) you can work out the probability of the complementary event.




Note that the formulas can be simplified a bit, e.g. the one with a double sum is $$left(frac2930right)^12left(frac112frac1920frac120right)
sum_k=0^7
left(frac1112frac1920right)^kcdot
sum_l=0^9-k
left(frac1920right)^l $$







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Aug 8 at 17:45

























answered Aug 8 at 17:30









Arnaud Mortier

19.2k22159




19.2k22159











  • Thanks for the reply! Does the formula you have provided for calculating the probability of discarding dice 1 first and then dice 2 also include the probability of both dice 1 and dice 2 being discarded on the same round? Thanks
    – codetemplar
    Aug 9 at 11:33










  • @codetemplar No, there is a separate formula underneath for the two discardings happening simultaneously (I wrote them separately to make it easier to generalize).
    – Arnaud Mortier
    Aug 9 at 12:38
















  • Thanks for the reply! Does the formula you have provided for calculating the probability of discarding dice 1 first and then dice 2 also include the probability of both dice 1 and dice 2 being discarded on the same round? Thanks
    – codetemplar
    Aug 9 at 11:33










  • @codetemplar No, there is a separate formula underneath for the two discardings happening simultaneously (I wrote them separately to make it easier to generalize).
    – Arnaud Mortier
    Aug 9 at 12:38















Thanks for the reply! Does the formula you have provided for calculating the probability of discarding dice 1 first and then dice 2 also include the probability of both dice 1 and dice 2 being discarded on the same round? Thanks
– codetemplar
Aug 9 at 11:33




Thanks for the reply! Does the formula you have provided for calculating the probability of discarding dice 1 first and then dice 2 also include the probability of both dice 1 and dice 2 being discarded on the same round? Thanks
– codetemplar
Aug 9 at 11:33












@codetemplar No, there is a separate formula underneath for the two discardings happening simultaneously (I wrote them separately to make it easier to generalize).
– Arnaud Mortier
Aug 9 at 12:38




@codetemplar No, there is a separate formula underneath for the two discardings happening simultaneously (I wrote them separately to make it easier to generalize).
– Arnaud Mortier
Aug 9 at 12:38










up vote
0
down vote













For $iin 1,2,3$, let $D_i,0$ be the event that die $i$ is not discarded and $D_i,1$ be the event that die $i$ is discarded.
We wish to calculate



$$p = mathbb Pbig(D_1,1cap D_2,1 cap D_3,1big).$$



Complimentary probability and De Morgan's laws yield that



beginalign
1-p
&=
mathbb Pleft(left(bigcap_i=1^3, D_i,1right)^complementright)
\&=
mathbb Pleft(bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,1^complementright)
\&=
mathbb Pleft(bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,0right)
endalign



We write $cup_i=1^3,D_i,0$ as a disjoint union of events:



beginalign
bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,0
quad=quad&
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)
\cup,,&
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)
cup left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)
cup left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)
\cup,,&
left(D_1,1 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)
cup left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)
cup left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,1right)
endalign



Do you think you can take it from here?




The probabilities for



$$left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)\
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)\
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)\
left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)$$



should be easy enough to calculate.



The probability for events of type $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)$ is a bit trickier.
Regardless of when each die, $i$ and $j$, roll $1$, die $k$ will definitely be rolled $12$ times.
It must not be discarded, so that gives us a factor of $(1-1/d_k)^12$ already, where $d_k$ is the number of sides of die $k$.



At this point, we need only consider the probability of $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$.
We can make this precise with conditional probability.
We have



$$
Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)
= underbraceBbb Pleft(D_k,0mid D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)_
(1-1/d_k)^12
cdot Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$$




Calculating $Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$ can be done similarly.
We use complimentary probability and De Morgan's laws again:



beginalign
Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)
&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)^complementright)
\&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(D_i,1^complement cup D_j,1^complementright)
\&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(D_i,0cup D_j,0right)
endalign



We write $D_i,0cup D_j,0$ as a disjoint union of events:



beginalign
D_i,0cup D_j,0
=quad &
(D_i,0cap D_j,0cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,0cap D_j,0cap D_k,1)
\cup,,&
(D_i,0cap D_j,1cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,0cap D_j,1cap D_k,1)
\cup,,&
(D_i,1cap D_j,0cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,1cap D_j,0cap D_k,1)
endalign



Can you see how this will yield a linear system relating the $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)$?






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thanks a lot for your answer. Unfortunately I am not sure I can finish it
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:51










  • I have expanded on it. Do you think you can finish now?
    – Fimpellizieri
    Aug 8 at 18:08










  • I believe I can now give it a good go, thanks
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 19:27














up vote
0
down vote













For $iin 1,2,3$, let $D_i,0$ be the event that die $i$ is not discarded and $D_i,1$ be the event that die $i$ is discarded.
We wish to calculate



$$p = mathbb Pbig(D_1,1cap D_2,1 cap D_3,1big).$$



Complimentary probability and De Morgan's laws yield that



beginalign
1-p
&=
mathbb Pleft(left(bigcap_i=1^3, D_i,1right)^complementright)
\&=
mathbb Pleft(bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,1^complementright)
\&=
mathbb Pleft(bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,0right)
endalign



We write $cup_i=1^3,D_i,0$ as a disjoint union of events:



beginalign
bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,0
quad=quad&
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)
\cup,,&
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)
cup left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)
cup left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)
\cup,,&
left(D_1,1 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)
cup left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)
cup left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,1right)
endalign



Do you think you can take it from here?




The probabilities for



$$left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)\
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)\
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)\
left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)$$



should be easy enough to calculate.



The probability for events of type $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)$ is a bit trickier.
Regardless of when each die, $i$ and $j$, roll $1$, die $k$ will definitely be rolled $12$ times.
It must not be discarded, so that gives us a factor of $(1-1/d_k)^12$ already, where $d_k$ is the number of sides of die $k$.



At this point, we need only consider the probability of $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$.
We can make this precise with conditional probability.
We have



$$
Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)
= underbraceBbb Pleft(D_k,0mid D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)_
(1-1/d_k)^12
cdot Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$$




Calculating $Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$ can be done similarly.
We use complimentary probability and De Morgan's laws again:



beginalign
Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)
&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)^complementright)
\&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(D_i,1^complement cup D_j,1^complementright)
\&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(D_i,0cup D_j,0right)
endalign



We write $D_i,0cup D_j,0$ as a disjoint union of events:



beginalign
D_i,0cup D_j,0
=quad &
(D_i,0cap D_j,0cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,0cap D_j,0cap D_k,1)
\cup,,&
(D_i,0cap D_j,1cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,0cap D_j,1cap D_k,1)
\cup,,&
(D_i,1cap D_j,0cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,1cap D_j,0cap D_k,1)
endalign



Can you see how this will yield a linear system relating the $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)$?






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thanks a lot for your answer. Unfortunately I am not sure I can finish it
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:51










  • I have expanded on it. Do you think you can finish now?
    – Fimpellizieri
    Aug 8 at 18:08










  • I believe I can now give it a good go, thanks
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 19:27












up vote
0
down vote










up vote
0
down vote









For $iin 1,2,3$, let $D_i,0$ be the event that die $i$ is not discarded and $D_i,1$ be the event that die $i$ is discarded.
We wish to calculate



$$p = mathbb Pbig(D_1,1cap D_2,1 cap D_3,1big).$$



Complimentary probability and De Morgan's laws yield that



beginalign
1-p
&=
mathbb Pleft(left(bigcap_i=1^3, D_i,1right)^complementright)
\&=
mathbb Pleft(bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,1^complementright)
\&=
mathbb Pleft(bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,0right)
endalign



We write $cup_i=1^3,D_i,0$ as a disjoint union of events:



beginalign
bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,0
quad=quad&
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)
\cup,,&
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)
cup left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)
cup left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)
\cup,,&
left(D_1,1 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)
cup left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)
cup left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,1right)
endalign



Do you think you can take it from here?




The probabilities for



$$left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)\
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)\
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)\
left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)$$



should be easy enough to calculate.



The probability for events of type $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)$ is a bit trickier.
Regardless of when each die, $i$ and $j$, roll $1$, die $k$ will definitely be rolled $12$ times.
It must not be discarded, so that gives us a factor of $(1-1/d_k)^12$ already, where $d_k$ is the number of sides of die $k$.



At this point, we need only consider the probability of $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$.
We can make this precise with conditional probability.
We have



$$
Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)
= underbraceBbb Pleft(D_k,0mid D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)_
(1-1/d_k)^12
cdot Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$$




Calculating $Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$ can be done similarly.
We use complimentary probability and De Morgan's laws again:



beginalign
Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)
&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)^complementright)
\&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(D_i,1^complement cup D_j,1^complementright)
\&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(D_i,0cup D_j,0right)
endalign



We write $D_i,0cup D_j,0$ as a disjoint union of events:



beginalign
D_i,0cup D_j,0
=quad &
(D_i,0cap D_j,0cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,0cap D_j,0cap D_k,1)
\cup,,&
(D_i,0cap D_j,1cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,0cap D_j,1cap D_k,1)
\cup,,&
(D_i,1cap D_j,0cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,1cap D_j,0cap D_k,1)
endalign



Can you see how this will yield a linear system relating the $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)$?






share|cite|improve this answer














For $iin 1,2,3$, let $D_i,0$ be the event that die $i$ is not discarded and $D_i,1$ be the event that die $i$ is discarded.
We wish to calculate



$$p = mathbb Pbig(D_1,1cap D_2,1 cap D_3,1big).$$



Complimentary probability and De Morgan's laws yield that



beginalign
1-p
&=
mathbb Pleft(left(bigcap_i=1^3, D_i,1right)^complementright)
\&=
mathbb Pleft(bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,1^complementright)
\&=
mathbb Pleft(bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,0right)
endalign



We write $cup_i=1^3,D_i,0$ as a disjoint union of events:



beginalign
bigcup_i=1^3,D_i,0
quad=quad&
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)
\cup,,&
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)
cup left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)
cup left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)
\cup,,&
left(D_1,1 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)
cup left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)
cup left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,1right)
endalign



Do you think you can take it from here?




The probabilities for



$$left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)\
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,1right)\
left(D_1,0 cap D_2,1 cap D_3,0right)\
left(D_1,1 cap D_2,0 cap D_3,0right)$$



should be easy enough to calculate.



The probability for events of type $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)$ is a bit trickier.
Regardless of when each die, $i$ and $j$, roll $1$, die $k$ will definitely be rolled $12$ times.
It must not be discarded, so that gives us a factor of $(1-1/d_k)^12$ already, where $d_k$ is the number of sides of die $k$.



At this point, we need only consider the probability of $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$.
We can make this precise with conditional probability.
We have



$$
Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)
= underbraceBbb Pleft(D_k,0mid D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)_
(1-1/d_k)^12
cdot Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$$




Calculating $Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)$ can be done similarly.
We use complimentary probability and De Morgan's laws again:



beginalign
Bbb Pleft(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)
&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1right)^complementright)
\&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(D_i,1^complement cup D_j,1^complementright)
\&=
1 - Bbb Pleft(D_i,0cup D_j,0right)
endalign



We write $D_i,0cup D_j,0$ as a disjoint union of events:



beginalign
D_i,0cup D_j,0
=quad &
(D_i,0cap D_j,0cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,0cap D_j,0cap D_k,1)
\cup,,&
(D_i,0cap D_j,1cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,0cap D_j,1cap D_k,1)
\cup,,&
(D_i,1cap D_j,0cap D_k,0)cup (D_i,1cap D_j,0cap D_k,1)
endalign



Can you see how this will yield a linear system relating the $left(D_i,1 cap D_j,1 cap D_k,0right)$?







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Aug 8 at 18:07

























answered Aug 8 at 17:36









Fimpellizieri

16.5k11735




16.5k11735











  • Thanks a lot for your answer. Unfortunately I am not sure I can finish it
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:51










  • I have expanded on it. Do you think you can finish now?
    – Fimpellizieri
    Aug 8 at 18:08










  • I believe I can now give it a good go, thanks
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 19:27
















  • Thanks a lot for your answer. Unfortunately I am not sure I can finish it
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 17:51










  • I have expanded on it. Do you think you can finish now?
    – Fimpellizieri
    Aug 8 at 18:08










  • I believe I can now give it a good go, thanks
    – codetemplar
    Aug 8 at 19:27















Thanks a lot for your answer. Unfortunately I am not sure I can finish it
– codetemplar
Aug 8 at 17:51




Thanks a lot for your answer. Unfortunately I am not sure I can finish it
– codetemplar
Aug 8 at 17:51












I have expanded on it. Do you think you can finish now?
– Fimpellizieri
Aug 8 at 18:08




I have expanded on it. Do you think you can finish now?
– Fimpellizieri
Aug 8 at 18:08












I believe I can now give it a good go, thanks
– codetemplar
Aug 8 at 19:27




I believe I can now give it a good go, thanks
– codetemplar
Aug 8 at 19:27












 

draft saved


draft discarded


























 


draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2876316%2fdice-roll-probability-game%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest













































































這個網誌中的熱門文章

How to combine Bézier curves to a surface?

Mutual Information Always Non-negative

Why am i infinitely getting the same tweet with the Twitter Search API?