What do linearly ordered abelian groups look like?

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Recently a post on MathOverflow connected a theorem about ordered abelian groups to the axiom of choice, and it made me want to try and play with these objects a bit.



But it appears to me that I don't know enough about linearly ordered abelian groups. In particular I am interested in the structure of their Archimedean classes. Let's establish some ad-hoc terminology first. Let $(G,+,leq)$ be a linearly ordered abelian group.



  1. $gin G$ is positive if $g>0$.

  2. The absolute value of $g$ is $|g|=maxg,-g$.

  3. If $g,hin G$ then $gsim h$ if and only if $|h|leq|g|$ and for some natural number $n$, $|g|leq n|h|$; or $|g|leq|h|$ and for some natural number $n$, $|h|leq n|g|$.

  4. An Archimedean class of $G$ is an equivalence class of $sim$. $Gamma(G)$ is the set of equivalence classes, and $preceq$ is the natural ordered induced from $leq$. If $[g],[h]inGamma(G)$ then $[g]preceq[h]$ if and only if $|g|leq|h|$ or $gsim h$.

  5. If $gin G$ then the positive part of the Archimedean class of $g$ is the set $hin Gmid hsim gland h>0$.

  6. If $G$ is an ordered group, an Archimedean extension is a group $K$ such that $Gleq K$, and $Gamma(G)=Gamma(K)$. If $G$ has no [nontrivial] Archimedean extensions we say that $G$ is Archimedean complete.

In "Ordered Abelian Groups", Gravett points out that given an ordered group $G$, we can replace it with a "rational group" $G^*$ such that every $xin G^*$ has some $n$ such that $nxin G$ (I believe this is "divisible group" in modern terms, and $G^*$ is the injective hull of $G$). It is quite clear that this rational group is a vector space over $Bbb Q$, and that it is an Archimedean extension of $G$.



So we can assume that an ordered group is a linearly ordered vector space over the rationals.



My questions are:



  1. What do Archimedean classes of an ordered group look like? Are they isomorphic to subgroups of $Bbb R$ (or the positive parts, to subgroups of $Bbb R^+$)?


  2. If not, what sort of counterexamples can we find?


  3. Gravett proves the Hahn completeness theorem which states that a group $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if it is isomorphic to its Hahn group (which is $Bbb R^Gamma(G)$ where the exponentiation is similar to ordinal exponentiation). Can we conclude in that case that $G$ is actually an ordered vector space over $Bbb R$?


  4. Can we prove that $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if it is a vector space over $Bbb R$? Does this mean that $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if each Archimedean class is isomorphic to $Bbb R$ (or the positive part to the positive reals), or is this a separate fact that we can prove?







share|cite|improve this question






















  • With the term "copy" you mean a "subgroup" or a "isomorphic copy"? In the first case the answer is yes (by Hahn's embedding theorem) and in the second case the answer is no (a trivial counterexample is the rationals).
    – boumol
    May 21 '13 at 7:09










  • @boumol: The rational numbers cannot be a vector space over the real numbers. I explicitly pointed out that I am interested in $Gotimes_Bbb ZBbb R$, rather than just $G$ itself. As for the first question, I'm trying to understand the order itself, but I'd be happy to understand the group-theoretic properties of each positive part as well.
    – Asaf Karagila♦
    May 21 '13 at 7:11










  • Mi mistake for not reading the details. I answered just using the information in the title ("linearly ordered abelian groups").
    – boumol
    May 21 '13 at 9:59










  • @boumol: The title was meant to lure you in, and hint you on the contents of the body. It was not meant to ask the actual question!
    – Asaf Karagila♦
    May 21 '13 at 10:02










  • What's the ordering on $G otimes_mathbbZ mathbbR$?
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    May 29 '13 at 4:17














up vote
20
down vote

favorite
9












Recently a post on MathOverflow connected a theorem about ordered abelian groups to the axiom of choice, and it made me want to try and play with these objects a bit.



But it appears to me that I don't know enough about linearly ordered abelian groups. In particular I am interested in the structure of their Archimedean classes. Let's establish some ad-hoc terminology first. Let $(G,+,leq)$ be a linearly ordered abelian group.



  1. $gin G$ is positive if $g>0$.

  2. The absolute value of $g$ is $|g|=maxg,-g$.

  3. If $g,hin G$ then $gsim h$ if and only if $|h|leq|g|$ and for some natural number $n$, $|g|leq n|h|$; or $|g|leq|h|$ and for some natural number $n$, $|h|leq n|g|$.

  4. An Archimedean class of $G$ is an equivalence class of $sim$. $Gamma(G)$ is the set of equivalence classes, and $preceq$ is the natural ordered induced from $leq$. If $[g],[h]inGamma(G)$ then $[g]preceq[h]$ if and only if $|g|leq|h|$ or $gsim h$.

  5. If $gin G$ then the positive part of the Archimedean class of $g$ is the set $hin Gmid hsim gland h>0$.

  6. If $G$ is an ordered group, an Archimedean extension is a group $K$ such that $Gleq K$, and $Gamma(G)=Gamma(K)$. If $G$ has no [nontrivial] Archimedean extensions we say that $G$ is Archimedean complete.

In "Ordered Abelian Groups", Gravett points out that given an ordered group $G$, we can replace it with a "rational group" $G^*$ such that every $xin G^*$ has some $n$ such that $nxin G$ (I believe this is "divisible group" in modern terms, and $G^*$ is the injective hull of $G$). It is quite clear that this rational group is a vector space over $Bbb Q$, and that it is an Archimedean extension of $G$.



So we can assume that an ordered group is a linearly ordered vector space over the rationals.



My questions are:



  1. What do Archimedean classes of an ordered group look like? Are they isomorphic to subgroups of $Bbb R$ (or the positive parts, to subgroups of $Bbb R^+$)?


  2. If not, what sort of counterexamples can we find?


  3. Gravett proves the Hahn completeness theorem which states that a group $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if it is isomorphic to its Hahn group (which is $Bbb R^Gamma(G)$ where the exponentiation is similar to ordinal exponentiation). Can we conclude in that case that $G$ is actually an ordered vector space over $Bbb R$?


  4. Can we prove that $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if it is a vector space over $Bbb R$? Does this mean that $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if each Archimedean class is isomorphic to $Bbb R$ (or the positive part to the positive reals), or is this a separate fact that we can prove?







share|cite|improve this question






















  • With the term "copy" you mean a "subgroup" or a "isomorphic copy"? In the first case the answer is yes (by Hahn's embedding theorem) and in the second case the answer is no (a trivial counterexample is the rationals).
    – boumol
    May 21 '13 at 7:09










  • @boumol: The rational numbers cannot be a vector space over the real numbers. I explicitly pointed out that I am interested in $Gotimes_Bbb ZBbb R$, rather than just $G$ itself. As for the first question, I'm trying to understand the order itself, but I'd be happy to understand the group-theoretic properties of each positive part as well.
    – Asaf Karagila♦
    May 21 '13 at 7:11










  • Mi mistake for not reading the details. I answered just using the information in the title ("linearly ordered abelian groups").
    – boumol
    May 21 '13 at 9:59










  • @boumol: The title was meant to lure you in, and hint you on the contents of the body. It was not meant to ask the actual question!
    – Asaf Karagila♦
    May 21 '13 at 10:02










  • What's the ordering on $G otimes_mathbbZ mathbbR$?
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    May 29 '13 at 4:17












up vote
20
down vote

favorite
9









up vote
20
down vote

favorite
9






9





Recently a post on MathOverflow connected a theorem about ordered abelian groups to the axiom of choice, and it made me want to try and play with these objects a bit.



But it appears to me that I don't know enough about linearly ordered abelian groups. In particular I am interested in the structure of their Archimedean classes. Let's establish some ad-hoc terminology first. Let $(G,+,leq)$ be a linearly ordered abelian group.



  1. $gin G$ is positive if $g>0$.

  2. The absolute value of $g$ is $|g|=maxg,-g$.

  3. If $g,hin G$ then $gsim h$ if and only if $|h|leq|g|$ and for some natural number $n$, $|g|leq n|h|$; or $|g|leq|h|$ and for some natural number $n$, $|h|leq n|g|$.

  4. An Archimedean class of $G$ is an equivalence class of $sim$. $Gamma(G)$ is the set of equivalence classes, and $preceq$ is the natural ordered induced from $leq$. If $[g],[h]inGamma(G)$ then $[g]preceq[h]$ if and only if $|g|leq|h|$ or $gsim h$.

  5. If $gin G$ then the positive part of the Archimedean class of $g$ is the set $hin Gmid hsim gland h>0$.

  6. If $G$ is an ordered group, an Archimedean extension is a group $K$ such that $Gleq K$, and $Gamma(G)=Gamma(K)$. If $G$ has no [nontrivial] Archimedean extensions we say that $G$ is Archimedean complete.

In "Ordered Abelian Groups", Gravett points out that given an ordered group $G$, we can replace it with a "rational group" $G^*$ such that every $xin G^*$ has some $n$ such that $nxin G$ (I believe this is "divisible group" in modern terms, and $G^*$ is the injective hull of $G$). It is quite clear that this rational group is a vector space over $Bbb Q$, and that it is an Archimedean extension of $G$.



So we can assume that an ordered group is a linearly ordered vector space over the rationals.



My questions are:



  1. What do Archimedean classes of an ordered group look like? Are they isomorphic to subgroups of $Bbb R$ (or the positive parts, to subgroups of $Bbb R^+$)?


  2. If not, what sort of counterexamples can we find?


  3. Gravett proves the Hahn completeness theorem which states that a group $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if it is isomorphic to its Hahn group (which is $Bbb R^Gamma(G)$ where the exponentiation is similar to ordinal exponentiation). Can we conclude in that case that $G$ is actually an ordered vector space over $Bbb R$?


  4. Can we prove that $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if it is a vector space over $Bbb R$? Does this mean that $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if each Archimedean class is isomorphic to $Bbb R$ (or the positive part to the positive reals), or is this a separate fact that we can prove?







share|cite|improve this question














Recently a post on MathOverflow connected a theorem about ordered abelian groups to the axiom of choice, and it made me want to try and play with these objects a bit.



But it appears to me that I don't know enough about linearly ordered abelian groups. In particular I am interested in the structure of their Archimedean classes. Let's establish some ad-hoc terminology first. Let $(G,+,leq)$ be a linearly ordered abelian group.



  1. $gin G$ is positive if $g>0$.

  2. The absolute value of $g$ is $|g|=maxg,-g$.

  3. If $g,hin G$ then $gsim h$ if and only if $|h|leq|g|$ and for some natural number $n$, $|g|leq n|h|$; or $|g|leq|h|$ and for some natural number $n$, $|h|leq n|g|$.

  4. An Archimedean class of $G$ is an equivalence class of $sim$. $Gamma(G)$ is the set of equivalence classes, and $preceq$ is the natural ordered induced from $leq$. If $[g],[h]inGamma(G)$ then $[g]preceq[h]$ if and only if $|g|leq|h|$ or $gsim h$.

  5. If $gin G$ then the positive part of the Archimedean class of $g$ is the set $hin Gmid hsim gland h>0$.

  6. If $G$ is an ordered group, an Archimedean extension is a group $K$ such that $Gleq K$, and $Gamma(G)=Gamma(K)$. If $G$ has no [nontrivial] Archimedean extensions we say that $G$ is Archimedean complete.

In "Ordered Abelian Groups", Gravett points out that given an ordered group $G$, we can replace it with a "rational group" $G^*$ such that every $xin G^*$ has some $n$ such that $nxin G$ (I believe this is "divisible group" in modern terms, and $G^*$ is the injective hull of $G$). It is quite clear that this rational group is a vector space over $Bbb Q$, and that it is an Archimedean extension of $G$.



So we can assume that an ordered group is a linearly ordered vector space over the rationals.



My questions are:



  1. What do Archimedean classes of an ordered group look like? Are they isomorphic to subgroups of $Bbb R$ (or the positive parts, to subgroups of $Bbb R^+$)?


  2. If not, what sort of counterexamples can we find?


  3. Gravett proves the Hahn completeness theorem which states that a group $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if it is isomorphic to its Hahn group (which is $Bbb R^Gamma(G)$ where the exponentiation is similar to ordinal exponentiation). Can we conclude in that case that $G$ is actually an ordered vector space over $Bbb R$?


  4. Can we prove that $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if it is a vector space over $Bbb R$? Does this mean that $G$ is Archimedean complete if and only if each Archimedean class is isomorphic to $Bbb R$ (or the positive part to the positive reals), or is this a separate fact that we can prove?









share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:58









Community♦

1




1










asked May 21 '13 at 3:45









Asaf Karagila♦

293k31408736




293k31408736











  • With the term "copy" you mean a "subgroup" or a "isomorphic copy"? In the first case the answer is yes (by Hahn's embedding theorem) and in the second case the answer is no (a trivial counterexample is the rationals).
    – boumol
    May 21 '13 at 7:09










  • @boumol: The rational numbers cannot be a vector space over the real numbers. I explicitly pointed out that I am interested in $Gotimes_Bbb ZBbb R$, rather than just $G$ itself. As for the first question, I'm trying to understand the order itself, but I'd be happy to understand the group-theoretic properties of each positive part as well.
    – Asaf Karagila♦
    May 21 '13 at 7:11










  • Mi mistake for not reading the details. I answered just using the information in the title ("linearly ordered abelian groups").
    – boumol
    May 21 '13 at 9:59










  • @boumol: The title was meant to lure you in, and hint you on the contents of the body. It was not meant to ask the actual question!
    – Asaf Karagila♦
    May 21 '13 at 10:02










  • What's the ordering on $G otimes_mathbbZ mathbbR$?
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    May 29 '13 at 4:17
















  • With the term "copy" you mean a "subgroup" or a "isomorphic copy"? In the first case the answer is yes (by Hahn's embedding theorem) and in the second case the answer is no (a trivial counterexample is the rationals).
    – boumol
    May 21 '13 at 7:09










  • @boumol: The rational numbers cannot be a vector space over the real numbers. I explicitly pointed out that I am interested in $Gotimes_Bbb ZBbb R$, rather than just $G$ itself. As for the first question, I'm trying to understand the order itself, but I'd be happy to understand the group-theoretic properties of each positive part as well.
    – Asaf Karagila♦
    May 21 '13 at 7:11










  • Mi mistake for not reading the details. I answered just using the information in the title ("linearly ordered abelian groups").
    – boumol
    May 21 '13 at 9:59










  • @boumol: The title was meant to lure you in, and hint you on the contents of the body. It was not meant to ask the actual question!
    – Asaf Karagila♦
    May 21 '13 at 10:02










  • What's the ordering on $G otimes_mathbbZ mathbbR$?
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    May 29 '13 at 4:17















With the term "copy" you mean a "subgroup" or a "isomorphic copy"? In the first case the answer is yes (by Hahn's embedding theorem) and in the second case the answer is no (a trivial counterexample is the rationals).
– boumol
May 21 '13 at 7:09




With the term "copy" you mean a "subgroup" or a "isomorphic copy"? In the first case the answer is yes (by Hahn's embedding theorem) and in the second case the answer is no (a trivial counterexample is the rationals).
– boumol
May 21 '13 at 7:09












@boumol: The rational numbers cannot be a vector space over the real numbers. I explicitly pointed out that I am interested in $Gotimes_Bbb ZBbb R$, rather than just $G$ itself. As for the first question, I'm trying to understand the order itself, but I'd be happy to understand the group-theoretic properties of each positive part as well.
– Asaf Karagila♦
May 21 '13 at 7:11




@boumol: The rational numbers cannot be a vector space over the real numbers. I explicitly pointed out that I am interested in $Gotimes_Bbb ZBbb R$, rather than just $G$ itself. As for the first question, I'm trying to understand the order itself, but I'd be happy to understand the group-theoretic properties of each positive part as well.
– Asaf Karagila♦
May 21 '13 at 7:11












Mi mistake for not reading the details. I answered just using the information in the title ("linearly ordered abelian groups").
– boumol
May 21 '13 at 9:59




Mi mistake for not reading the details. I answered just using the information in the title ("linearly ordered abelian groups").
– boumol
May 21 '13 at 9:59












@boumol: The title was meant to lure you in, and hint you on the contents of the body. It was not meant to ask the actual question!
– Asaf Karagila♦
May 21 '13 at 10:02




@boumol: The title was meant to lure you in, and hint you on the contents of the body. It was not meant to ask the actual question!
– Asaf Karagila♦
May 21 '13 at 10:02












What's the ordering on $G otimes_mathbbZ mathbbR$?
– Qiaochu Yuan
May 29 '13 at 4:17




What's the ordering on $G otimes_mathbbZ mathbbR$?
– Qiaochu Yuan
May 29 '13 at 4:17










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
0
down vote













These are my answers:



  1. An Archimedean class is by definition an Archimedean ordered subgroup of $G$, and every Archimedean ordered group is isomorphic to a subgroup of $(mathbbR,+)$.

  2. no apply.

  3. Yes. On one side, the Hahn's Embedding theorem states that every abelian ordered group $G$ can be embedded in its Archimedean completion defined by $$mathbbR((Gamma(G))):=ginmathbbR^Gamma(G):qinGamma(G):g(q)neq0mbox is well-ordered.$$ On the other side, $mathbbR((Gamma(G)))$ is a $mathbbR$-vector space (actually it is a field extension of $mathbbR$ when $Gamma(G)$ is an ordered group). Thus, whenever $G$ is Archimedean complete, it is isomorphic to $mathbbR((Gamma(G)))$, and thus the scalar multiplication can be defined through isomorphism.

  4. No and No. A counterexample is
    $$G:=gin mathbbR^mathbbQ:qinmathbbQ:g(q)neq0cap(-infty,n]mbox is finite for all ninmathbbZ.$$
    Here $G$ is a $mathbbR$-vector space, each Archimedean class is isomorphic to $mathbbR$ and $Gamma(G)=mathbbQ$, but $mathbbR((mathbbQ))$ is a proper Archimedean immediate extension of $G$, actually it is the Archimedean completion of $G$.





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    These are my answers:



    1. An Archimedean class is by definition an Archimedean ordered subgroup of $G$, and every Archimedean ordered group is isomorphic to a subgroup of $(mathbbR,+)$.

    2. no apply.

    3. Yes. On one side, the Hahn's Embedding theorem states that every abelian ordered group $G$ can be embedded in its Archimedean completion defined by $$mathbbR((Gamma(G))):=ginmathbbR^Gamma(G):qinGamma(G):g(q)neq0mbox is well-ordered.$$ On the other side, $mathbbR((Gamma(G)))$ is a $mathbbR$-vector space (actually it is a field extension of $mathbbR$ when $Gamma(G)$ is an ordered group). Thus, whenever $G$ is Archimedean complete, it is isomorphic to $mathbbR((Gamma(G)))$, and thus the scalar multiplication can be defined through isomorphism.

    4. No and No. A counterexample is
      $$G:=gin mathbbR^mathbbQ:qinmathbbQ:g(q)neq0cap(-infty,n]mbox is finite for all ninmathbbZ.$$
      Here $G$ is a $mathbbR$-vector space, each Archimedean class is isomorphic to $mathbbR$ and $Gamma(G)=mathbbQ$, but $mathbbR((mathbbQ))$ is a proper Archimedean immediate extension of $G$, actually it is the Archimedean completion of $G$.





    share|cite|improve this answer
























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      These are my answers:



      1. An Archimedean class is by definition an Archimedean ordered subgroup of $G$, and every Archimedean ordered group is isomorphic to a subgroup of $(mathbbR,+)$.

      2. no apply.

      3. Yes. On one side, the Hahn's Embedding theorem states that every abelian ordered group $G$ can be embedded in its Archimedean completion defined by $$mathbbR((Gamma(G))):=ginmathbbR^Gamma(G):qinGamma(G):g(q)neq0mbox is well-ordered.$$ On the other side, $mathbbR((Gamma(G)))$ is a $mathbbR$-vector space (actually it is a field extension of $mathbbR$ when $Gamma(G)$ is an ordered group). Thus, whenever $G$ is Archimedean complete, it is isomorphic to $mathbbR((Gamma(G)))$, and thus the scalar multiplication can be defined through isomorphism.

      4. No and No. A counterexample is
        $$G:=gin mathbbR^mathbbQ:qinmathbbQ:g(q)neq0cap(-infty,n]mbox is finite for all ninmathbbZ.$$
        Here $G$ is a $mathbbR$-vector space, each Archimedean class is isomorphic to $mathbbR$ and $Gamma(G)=mathbbQ$, but $mathbbR((mathbbQ))$ is a proper Archimedean immediate extension of $G$, actually it is the Archimedean completion of $G$.





      share|cite|improve this answer






















        up vote
        0
        down vote










        up vote
        0
        down vote









        These are my answers:



        1. An Archimedean class is by definition an Archimedean ordered subgroup of $G$, and every Archimedean ordered group is isomorphic to a subgroup of $(mathbbR,+)$.

        2. no apply.

        3. Yes. On one side, the Hahn's Embedding theorem states that every abelian ordered group $G$ can be embedded in its Archimedean completion defined by $$mathbbR((Gamma(G))):=ginmathbbR^Gamma(G):qinGamma(G):g(q)neq0mbox is well-ordered.$$ On the other side, $mathbbR((Gamma(G)))$ is a $mathbbR$-vector space (actually it is a field extension of $mathbbR$ when $Gamma(G)$ is an ordered group). Thus, whenever $G$ is Archimedean complete, it is isomorphic to $mathbbR((Gamma(G)))$, and thus the scalar multiplication can be defined through isomorphism.

        4. No and No. A counterexample is
          $$G:=gin mathbbR^mathbbQ:qinmathbbQ:g(q)neq0cap(-infty,n]mbox is finite for all ninmathbbZ.$$
          Here $G$ is a $mathbbR$-vector space, each Archimedean class is isomorphic to $mathbbR$ and $Gamma(G)=mathbbQ$, but $mathbbR((mathbbQ))$ is a proper Archimedean immediate extension of $G$, actually it is the Archimedean completion of $G$.





        share|cite|improve this answer












        These are my answers:



        1. An Archimedean class is by definition an Archimedean ordered subgroup of $G$, and every Archimedean ordered group is isomorphic to a subgroup of $(mathbbR,+)$.

        2. no apply.

        3. Yes. On one side, the Hahn's Embedding theorem states that every abelian ordered group $G$ can be embedded in its Archimedean completion defined by $$mathbbR((Gamma(G))):=ginmathbbR^Gamma(G):qinGamma(G):g(q)neq0mbox is well-ordered.$$ On the other side, $mathbbR((Gamma(G)))$ is a $mathbbR$-vector space (actually it is a field extension of $mathbbR$ when $Gamma(G)$ is an ordered group). Thus, whenever $G$ is Archimedean complete, it is isomorphic to $mathbbR((Gamma(G)))$, and thus the scalar multiplication can be defined through isomorphism.

        4. No and No. A counterexample is
          $$G:=gin mathbbR^mathbbQ:qinmathbbQ:g(q)neq0cap(-infty,n]mbox is finite for all ninmathbbZ.$$
          Here $G$ is a $mathbbR$-vector space, each Archimedean class is isomorphic to $mathbbR$ and $Gamma(G)=mathbbQ$, but $mathbbR((mathbbQ))$ is a proper Archimedean immediate extension of $G$, actually it is the Archimedean completion of $G$.






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        answered Feb 13 at 3:04









        Chilote

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