Does there exist positive rational $s$ for which $zeta(s)$ is a positive integer?

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
6
down vote

favorite
5













Does there exist positive rational $s$ for which the Riemann Zeta function $zeta(s) in N$ or equivalently, does there exist finite positive integers $ell,m$ and $n$ such that $$zetaleft(1+dfracellmright) = n$$




I have been trying to solve this question and have made some progress. Computationally I can show that such an $l$ must be greater than $41$ but obviously this approach won't answer the question. Any insights on how to approach this?







share|cite|improve this question


















  • 2




    I would expect that $zeta(r)$ is irrational for all rationals $r > 1$, but to prove this may be beyond the current state of the art. We don't even know that $zeta(5)$ is irrational.
    – Robert Israel
    Aug 19 at 5:54










  • If $zeta$ denotes the Riemann zeta function, please include it in your question.
    – PreservedFruit
    Aug 22 at 13:07










  • @PreservedFruit: Sure. Done
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 22 at 13:58














up vote
6
down vote

favorite
5













Does there exist positive rational $s$ for which the Riemann Zeta function $zeta(s) in N$ or equivalently, does there exist finite positive integers $ell,m$ and $n$ such that $$zetaleft(1+dfracellmright) = n$$




I have been trying to solve this question and have made some progress. Computationally I can show that such an $l$ must be greater than $41$ but obviously this approach won't answer the question. Any insights on how to approach this?







share|cite|improve this question


















  • 2




    I would expect that $zeta(r)$ is irrational for all rationals $r > 1$, but to prove this may be beyond the current state of the art. We don't even know that $zeta(5)$ is irrational.
    – Robert Israel
    Aug 19 at 5:54










  • If $zeta$ denotes the Riemann zeta function, please include it in your question.
    – PreservedFruit
    Aug 22 at 13:07










  • @PreservedFruit: Sure. Done
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 22 at 13:58












up vote
6
down vote

favorite
5









up vote
6
down vote

favorite
5






5






Does there exist positive rational $s$ for which the Riemann Zeta function $zeta(s) in N$ or equivalently, does there exist finite positive integers $ell,m$ and $n$ such that $$zetaleft(1+dfracellmright) = n$$




I have been trying to solve this question and have made some progress. Computationally I can show that such an $l$ must be greater than $41$ but obviously this approach won't answer the question. Any insights on how to approach this?







share|cite|improve this question















Does there exist positive rational $s$ for which the Riemann Zeta function $zeta(s) in N$ or equivalently, does there exist finite positive integers $ell,m$ and $n$ such that $$zetaleft(1+dfracellmright) = n$$




I have been trying to solve this question and have made some progress. Computationally I can show that such an $l$ must be greater than $41$ but obviously this approach won't answer the question. Any insights on how to approach this?









share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Aug 22 at 13:58

























asked Aug 19 at 5:35









Nilotpal Kanti Sinha

3,12011232




3,12011232







  • 2




    I would expect that $zeta(r)$ is irrational for all rationals $r > 1$, but to prove this may be beyond the current state of the art. We don't even know that $zeta(5)$ is irrational.
    – Robert Israel
    Aug 19 at 5:54










  • If $zeta$ denotes the Riemann zeta function, please include it in your question.
    – PreservedFruit
    Aug 22 at 13:07










  • @PreservedFruit: Sure. Done
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 22 at 13:58












  • 2




    I would expect that $zeta(r)$ is irrational for all rationals $r > 1$, but to prove this may be beyond the current state of the art. We don't even know that $zeta(5)$ is irrational.
    – Robert Israel
    Aug 19 at 5:54










  • If $zeta$ denotes the Riemann zeta function, please include it in your question.
    – PreservedFruit
    Aug 22 at 13:07










  • @PreservedFruit: Sure. Done
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 22 at 13:58







2




2




I would expect that $zeta(r)$ is irrational for all rationals $r > 1$, but to prove this may be beyond the current state of the art. We don't even know that $zeta(5)$ is irrational.
– Robert Israel
Aug 19 at 5:54




I would expect that $zeta(r)$ is irrational for all rationals $r > 1$, but to prove this may be beyond the current state of the art. We don't even know that $zeta(5)$ is irrational.
– Robert Israel
Aug 19 at 5:54












If $zeta$ denotes the Riemann zeta function, please include it in your question.
– PreservedFruit
Aug 22 at 13:07




If $zeta$ denotes the Riemann zeta function, please include it in your question.
– PreservedFruit
Aug 22 at 13:07












@PreservedFruit: Sure. Done
– Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
Aug 22 at 13:58




@PreservedFruit: Sure. Done
– Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
Aug 22 at 13:58










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
5
down vote













I misread $l$ as $1$, but in any case, as a partial result, here's a resolution for the case $l=1$.



Fix $sinmathbbR$, with $s > 1$.



On the interval $(0,infty)$, let
$f(x)=smalldisplaystylefrac1x^larges$.



It's easily verified that
$
displaystyle
int_1^infty !f(x),dx
=
smallfrac1s-1

$.



Consider the infinite series
$
displaystyle
sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s

$.



Since $f$ is positive, continuous, and strictly decreasing, we get
beginalign*
int_1^infty !f(x),dx < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < 1+int_1^infty !f(x),dx\[4pt]
implies;smallfrac1s-1 < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < 1+smallfrac1s-1\[4pt]
endalign*
If $m$ is a positive integer, then letting $s=1+largefrac1m$, we have $largefrac1s-1=m$, hence
beginalign*
smallfrac1s-1 < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < ;1+smallfrac1s-1\[4pt]
implies;m < ;,&zetabigl(1+smallfrac1mbigr) < ;m + 1\[4pt]
endalign*
so $zetabigl(1+largefrac1mbigr)$ is not an integer.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thanks. In fact I have a slightly stronger result can be one of the approach to tackle this problem. Using the Stieltjes series expansion of thte Riemann Zeta function we can show that for $l = 1$, the fractional part of $zeta(1+1/m)$ starts from $pi^2/2 - 1 = 0.6449341$ for $m = 1$ and strictly decreases with $m$ and approaches the limiting value of $1-gamma sim 0.422785$ where $gamma$ is the Euler-Mascheroni constant. Hence $pi^2/2 - 1 le (zeta(1+1/m)) le gamma$. I have been trying to see if this method can be generalized for the case $l > 1$.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 19 at 10:52











  • Yes, I had that result, but it doesn't go anywhere for $l > 1$.
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:02










  • Can you resolve the problem for any other value of $l$, other than $l=1$? For example, can you resolve the case $l=2$?
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:04










  • Note that for positive integers $l,m$, the expression $1+l/m$ can take any rational value greater than $1$, so your question can be recast as asking if there exists a rational number $s > 1$ such that $zeta(s)$ is an integer. My sense (seconding Robert Israel's comment) is that an answer to that question is out of range of current knowledge.
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:09











  • I think that the case for integer should be easier than the case for deciding rationality. I will outline my approach below since it will be too long for a comment.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 20 at 6:36

















up vote
3
down vote














Can you resolve the problem for any other value of l, other than l=1?
For example, can you resolve the case l=2?




Yes and in fact I can show that $l ge 41$. Here is the outline of my approach which I am posting as an answer since it is too long to be a comment.



Step 1: The first step was to derive the following result




For every integer $n ge 2$ there exists a positive real $c_n$ such
that $displaystyle zetaBig(1+frac1n-1+c_nBig) = n. $



The first few terms of the asymptotic expansion of $c_n$ in terms of $n$ and the Stieltjes constants $gamma_i$ are



$$ c_n = 1-gamma_0 + fracgamma_1n-1
+ fracgamma_2 + gamma_1 - gamma_0 gamma_1(n-1)^2 + OBig(frac1n^3Big) $$




Step 2: I computed the first few values of $c_n$ but I did not use the above result. Instead I used the following recurrence formula.




Let $alpha_0$ be any positive real and $displaystyle alpha_r+1 = n +
alpha_r - zetaBig(1+frac1n -1 + alpha_rBig); $ then $displaystyle lim_r to inftyalpha_r = c_n$.




Using this we obtained
$$
c_2 approx 0.3724062
$$
$$
c_3 approx 0.3932265
$$
$$
ldots
$$
$$
c_12 approx 0.4164435
$$



Step 3: Show that $l ge 5$



Let $displaystyle zetaBig(1+fraclmBig) in N$ and let $m = lk+d$ where $gcd(l,d) = 1$ and $1 le d < l$.



Clearly, $c_2 le c_n < 1-gamma_0$ or $0.3724062 le c_n < 0.422785$.
Hence we must have $displaystyle 0.3724062 le fracdl < 0.422785$. The fraction with the smallest value of $l$ satisfying this condition is $displaystylefrac25 $ hence $l ge 5$.



Extending the same approach I am able to show that $l ge 41$.



Problems with this approach:



With this approach and with powerful computing, we can prove results like if $displaystyle zetaBig(1+fraclmBig) in N $ then $l$ must be greater than some large positive integer but I don't see how this approach will solve the general problem.






share|cite|improve this answer


















  • 1




    Nice work! Seems like a lot of progress. Is this your own problem?
    – quasi
    Aug 20 at 9:37










  • Thanks. Yes its my own problem that I worked way back in 2005 and then it got lost among other things. Revisiting it now after 13 years.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 20 at 9:52











Your Answer




StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: false,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);








 

draft saved


draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2887379%2fdoes-there-exist-positive-rational-s-for-which-zetas-is-a-positive-intege%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest






























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
5
down vote













I misread $l$ as $1$, but in any case, as a partial result, here's a resolution for the case $l=1$.



Fix $sinmathbbR$, with $s > 1$.



On the interval $(0,infty)$, let
$f(x)=smalldisplaystylefrac1x^larges$.



It's easily verified that
$
displaystyle
int_1^infty !f(x),dx
=
smallfrac1s-1

$.



Consider the infinite series
$
displaystyle
sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s

$.



Since $f$ is positive, continuous, and strictly decreasing, we get
beginalign*
int_1^infty !f(x),dx < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < 1+int_1^infty !f(x),dx\[4pt]
implies;smallfrac1s-1 < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < 1+smallfrac1s-1\[4pt]
endalign*
If $m$ is a positive integer, then letting $s=1+largefrac1m$, we have $largefrac1s-1=m$, hence
beginalign*
smallfrac1s-1 < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < ;1+smallfrac1s-1\[4pt]
implies;m < ;,&zetabigl(1+smallfrac1mbigr) < ;m + 1\[4pt]
endalign*
so $zetabigl(1+largefrac1mbigr)$ is not an integer.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thanks. In fact I have a slightly stronger result can be one of the approach to tackle this problem. Using the Stieltjes series expansion of thte Riemann Zeta function we can show that for $l = 1$, the fractional part of $zeta(1+1/m)$ starts from $pi^2/2 - 1 = 0.6449341$ for $m = 1$ and strictly decreases with $m$ and approaches the limiting value of $1-gamma sim 0.422785$ where $gamma$ is the Euler-Mascheroni constant. Hence $pi^2/2 - 1 le (zeta(1+1/m)) le gamma$. I have been trying to see if this method can be generalized for the case $l > 1$.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 19 at 10:52











  • Yes, I had that result, but it doesn't go anywhere for $l > 1$.
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:02










  • Can you resolve the problem for any other value of $l$, other than $l=1$? For example, can you resolve the case $l=2$?
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:04










  • Note that for positive integers $l,m$, the expression $1+l/m$ can take any rational value greater than $1$, so your question can be recast as asking if there exists a rational number $s > 1$ such that $zeta(s)$ is an integer. My sense (seconding Robert Israel's comment) is that an answer to that question is out of range of current knowledge.
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:09











  • I think that the case for integer should be easier than the case for deciding rationality. I will outline my approach below since it will be too long for a comment.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 20 at 6:36














up vote
5
down vote













I misread $l$ as $1$, but in any case, as a partial result, here's a resolution for the case $l=1$.



Fix $sinmathbbR$, with $s > 1$.



On the interval $(0,infty)$, let
$f(x)=smalldisplaystylefrac1x^larges$.



It's easily verified that
$
displaystyle
int_1^infty !f(x),dx
=
smallfrac1s-1

$.



Consider the infinite series
$
displaystyle
sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s

$.



Since $f$ is positive, continuous, and strictly decreasing, we get
beginalign*
int_1^infty !f(x),dx < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < 1+int_1^infty !f(x),dx\[4pt]
implies;smallfrac1s-1 < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < 1+smallfrac1s-1\[4pt]
endalign*
If $m$ is a positive integer, then letting $s=1+largefrac1m$, we have $largefrac1s-1=m$, hence
beginalign*
smallfrac1s-1 < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < ;1+smallfrac1s-1\[4pt]
implies;m < ;,&zetabigl(1+smallfrac1mbigr) < ;m + 1\[4pt]
endalign*
so $zetabigl(1+largefrac1mbigr)$ is not an integer.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Thanks. In fact I have a slightly stronger result can be one of the approach to tackle this problem. Using the Stieltjes series expansion of thte Riemann Zeta function we can show that for $l = 1$, the fractional part of $zeta(1+1/m)$ starts from $pi^2/2 - 1 = 0.6449341$ for $m = 1$ and strictly decreases with $m$ and approaches the limiting value of $1-gamma sim 0.422785$ where $gamma$ is the Euler-Mascheroni constant. Hence $pi^2/2 - 1 le (zeta(1+1/m)) le gamma$. I have been trying to see if this method can be generalized for the case $l > 1$.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 19 at 10:52











  • Yes, I had that result, but it doesn't go anywhere for $l > 1$.
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:02










  • Can you resolve the problem for any other value of $l$, other than $l=1$? For example, can you resolve the case $l=2$?
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:04










  • Note that for positive integers $l,m$, the expression $1+l/m$ can take any rational value greater than $1$, so your question can be recast as asking if there exists a rational number $s > 1$ such that $zeta(s)$ is an integer. My sense (seconding Robert Israel's comment) is that an answer to that question is out of range of current knowledge.
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:09











  • I think that the case for integer should be easier than the case for deciding rationality. I will outline my approach below since it will be too long for a comment.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 20 at 6:36












up vote
5
down vote










up vote
5
down vote









I misread $l$ as $1$, but in any case, as a partial result, here's a resolution for the case $l=1$.



Fix $sinmathbbR$, with $s > 1$.



On the interval $(0,infty)$, let
$f(x)=smalldisplaystylefrac1x^larges$.



It's easily verified that
$
displaystyle
int_1^infty !f(x),dx
=
smallfrac1s-1

$.



Consider the infinite series
$
displaystyle
sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s

$.



Since $f$ is positive, continuous, and strictly decreasing, we get
beginalign*
int_1^infty !f(x),dx < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < 1+int_1^infty !f(x),dx\[4pt]
implies;smallfrac1s-1 < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < 1+smallfrac1s-1\[4pt]
endalign*
If $m$ is a positive integer, then letting $s=1+largefrac1m$, we have $largefrac1s-1=m$, hence
beginalign*
smallfrac1s-1 < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < ;1+smallfrac1s-1\[4pt]
implies;m < ;,&zetabigl(1+smallfrac1mbigr) < ;m + 1\[4pt]
endalign*
so $zetabigl(1+largefrac1mbigr)$ is not an integer.






share|cite|improve this answer














I misread $l$ as $1$, but in any case, as a partial result, here's a resolution for the case $l=1$.



Fix $sinmathbbR$, with $s > 1$.



On the interval $(0,infty)$, let
$f(x)=smalldisplaystylefrac1x^larges$.



It's easily verified that
$
displaystyle
int_1^infty !f(x),dx
=
smallfrac1s-1

$.



Consider the infinite series
$
displaystyle
sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s

$.



Since $f$ is positive, continuous, and strictly decreasing, we get
beginalign*
int_1^infty !f(x),dx < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < 1+int_1^infty !f(x),dx\[4pt]
implies;smallfrac1s-1 < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < 1+smallfrac1s-1\[4pt]
endalign*
If $m$ is a positive integer, then letting $s=1+largefrac1m$, we have $largefrac1s-1=m$, hence
beginalign*
smallfrac1s-1 < ;&sum_k=1^infty frac1k^s < ;1+smallfrac1s-1\[4pt]
implies;m < ;,&zetabigl(1+smallfrac1mbigr) < ;m + 1\[4pt]
endalign*
so $zetabigl(1+largefrac1mbigr)$ is not an integer.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Aug 19 at 8:57

























answered Aug 19 at 8:06









quasi

33.9k22461




33.9k22461











  • Thanks. In fact I have a slightly stronger result can be one of the approach to tackle this problem. Using the Stieltjes series expansion of thte Riemann Zeta function we can show that for $l = 1$, the fractional part of $zeta(1+1/m)$ starts from $pi^2/2 - 1 = 0.6449341$ for $m = 1$ and strictly decreases with $m$ and approaches the limiting value of $1-gamma sim 0.422785$ where $gamma$ is the Euler-Mascheroni constant. Hence $pi^2/2 - 1 le (zeta(1+1/m)) le gamma$. I have been trying to see if this method can be generalized for the case $l > 1$.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 19 at 10:52











  • Yes, I had that result, but it doesn't go anywhere for $l > 1$.
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:02










  • Can you resolve the problem for any other value of $l$, other than $l=1$? For example, can you resolve the case $l=2$?
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:04










  • Note that for positive integers $l,m$, the expression $1+l/m$ can take any rational value greater than $1$, so your question can be recast as asking if there exists a rational number $s > 1$ such that $zeta(s)$ is an integer. My sense (seconding Robert Israel's comment) is that an answer to that question is out of range of current knowledge.
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:09











  • I think that the case for integer should be easier than the case for deciding rationality. I will outline my approach below since it will be too long for a comment.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 20 at 6:36
















  • Thanks. In fact I have a slightly stronger result can be one of the approach to tackle this problem. Using the Stieltjes series expansion of thte Riemann Zeta function we can show that for $l = 1$, the fractional part of $zeta(1+1/m)$ starts from $pi^2/2 - 1 = 0.6449341$ for $m = 1$ and strictly decreases with $m$ and approaches the limiting value of $1-gamma sim 0.422785$ where $gamma$ is the Euler-Mascheroni constant. Hence $pi^2/2 - 1 le (zeta(1+1/m)) le gamma$. I have been trying to see if this method can be generalized for the case $l > 1$.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 19 at 10:52











  • Yes, I had that result, but it doesn't go anywhere for $l > 1$.
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:02










  • Can you resolve the problem for any other value of $l$, other than $l=1$? For example, can you resolve the case $l=2$?
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:04










  • Note that for positive integers $l,m$, the expression $1+l/m$ can take any rational value greater than $1$, so your question can be recast as asking if there exists a rational number $s > 1$ such that $zeta(s)$ is an integer. My sense (seconding Robert Israel's comment) is that an answer to that question is out of range of current knowledge.
    – quasi
    Aug 19 at 11:09











  • I think that the case for integer should be easier than the case for deciding rationality. I will outline my approach below since it will be too long for a comment.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 20 at 6:36















Thanks. In fact I have a slightly stronger result can be one of the approach to tackle this problem. Using the Stieltjes series expansion of thte Riemann Zeta function we can show that for $l = 1$, the fractional part of $zeta(1+1/m)$ starts from $pi^2/2 - 1 = 0.6449341$ for $m = 1$ and strictly decreases with $m$ and approaches the limiting value of $1-gamma sim 0.422785$ where $gamma$ is the Euler-Mascheroni constant. Hence $pi^2/2 - 1 le (zeta(1+1/m)) le gamma$. I have been trying to see if this method can be generalized for the case $l > 1$.
– Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
Aug 19 at 10:52





Thanks. In fact I have a slightly stronger result can be one of the approach to tackle this problem. Using the Stieltjes series expansion of thte Riemann Zeta function we can show that for $l = 1$, the fractional part of $zeta(1+1/m)$ starts from $pi^2/2 - 1 = 0.6449341$ for $m = 1$ and strictly decreases with $m$ and approaches the limiting value of $1-gamma sim 0.422785$ where $gamma$ is the Euler-Mascheroni constant. Hence $pi^2/2 - 1 le (zeta(1+1/m)) le gamma$. I have been trying to see if this method can be generalized for the case $l > 1$.
– Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
Aug 19 at 10:52













Yes, I had that result, but it doesn't go anywhere for $l > 1$.
– quasi
Aug 19 at 11:02




Yes, I had that result, but it doesn't go anywhere for $l > 1$.
– quasi
Aug 19 at 11:02












Can you resolve the problem for any other value of $l$, other than $l=1$? For example, can you resolve the case $l=2$?
– quasi
Aug 19 at 11:04




Can you resolve the problem for any other value of $l$, other than $l=1$? For example, can you resolve the case $l=2$?
– quasi
Aug 19 at 11:04












Note that for positive integers $l,m$, the expression $1+l/m$ can take any rational value greater than $1$, so your question can be recast as asking if there exists a rational number $s > 1$ such that $zeta(s)$ is an integer. My sense (seconding Robert Israel's comment) is that an answer to that question is out of range of current knowledge.
– quasi
Aug 19 at 11:09





Note that for positive integers $l,m$, the expression $1+l/m$ can take any rational value greater than $1$, so your question can be recast as asking if there exists a rational number $s > 1$ such that $zeta(s)$ is an integer. My sense (seconding Robert Israel's comment) is that an answer to that question is out of range of current knowledge.
– quasi
Aug 19 at 11:09













I think that the case for integer should be easier than the case for deciding rationality. I will outline my approach below since it will be too long for a comment.
– Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
Aug 20 at 6:36




I think that the case for integer should be easier than the case for deciding rationality. I will outline my approach below since it will be too long for a comment.
– Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
Aug 20 at 6:36










up vote
3
down vote














Can you resolve the problem for any other value of l, other than l=1?
For example, can you resolve the case l=2?




Yes and in fact I can show that $l ge 41$. Here is the outline of my approach which I am posting as an answer since it is too long to be a comment.



Step 1: The first step was to derive the following result




For every integer $n ge 2$ there exists a positive real $c_n$ such
that $displaystyle zetaBig(1+frac1n-1+c_nBig) = n. $



The first few terms of the asymptotic expansion of $c_n$ in terms of $n$ and the Stieltjes constants $gamma_i$ are



$$ c_n = 1-gamma_0 + fracgamma_1n-1
+ fracgamma_2 + gamma_1 - gamma_0 gamma_1(n-1)^2 + OBig(frac1n^3Big) $$




Step 2: I computed the first few values of $c_n$ but I did not use the above result. Instead I used the following recurrence formula.




Let $alpha_0$ be any positive real and $displaystyle alpha_r+1 = n +
alpha_r - zetaBig(1+frac1n -1 + alpha_rBig); $ then $displaystyle lim_r to inftyalpha_r = c_n$.




Using this we obtained
$$
c_2 approx 0.3724062
$$
$$
c_3 approx 0.3932265
$$
$$
ldots
$$
$$
c_12 approx 0.4164435
$$



Step 3: Show that $l ge 5$



Let $displaystyle zetaBig(1+fraclmBig) in N$ and let $m = lk+d$ where $gcd(l,d) = 1$ and $1 le d < l$.



Clearly, $c_2 le c_n < 1-gamma_0$ or $0.3724062 le c_n < 0.422785$.
Hence we must have $displaystyle 0.3724062 le fracdl < 0.422785$. The fraction with the smallest value of $l$ satisfying this condition is $displaystylefrac25 $ hence $l ge 5$.



Extending the same approach I am able to show that $l ge 41$.



Problems with this approach:



With this approach and with powerful computing, we can prove results like if $displaystyle zetaBig(1+fraclmBig) in N $ then $l$ must be greater than some large positive integer but I don't see how this approach will solve the general problem.






share|cite|improve this answer


















  • 1




    Nice work! Seems like a lot of progress. Is this your own problem?
    – quasi
    Aug 20 at 9:37










  • Thanks. Yes its my own problem that I worked way back in 2005 and then it got lost among other things. Revisiting it now after 13 years.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 20 at 9:52















up vote
3
down vote














Can you resolve the problem for any other value of l, other than l=1?
For example, can you resolve the case l=2?




Yes and in fact I can show that $l ge 41$. Here is the outline of my approach which I am posting as an answer since it is too long to be a comment.



Step 1: The first step was to derive the following result




For every integer $n ge 2$ there exists a positive real $c_n$ such
that $displaystyle zetaBig(1+frac1n-1+c_nBig) = n. $



The first few terms of the asymptotic expansion of $c_n$ in terms of $n$ and the Stieltjes constants $gamma_i$ are



$$ c_n = 1-gamma_0 + fracgamma_1n-1
+ fracgamma_2 + gamma_1 - gamma_0 gamma_1(n-1)^2 + OBig(frac1n^3Big) $$




Step 2: I computed the first few values of $c_n$ but I did not use the above result. Instead I used the following recurrence formula.




Let $alpha_0$ be any positive real and $displaystyle alpha_r+1 = n +
alpha_r - zetaBig(1+frac1n -1 + alpha_rBig); $ then $displaystyle lim_r to inftyalpha_r = c_n$.




Using this we obtained
$$
c_2 approx 0.3724062
$$
$$
c_3 approx 0.3932265
$$
$$
ldots
$$
$$
c_12 approx 0.4164435
$$



Step 3: Show that $l ge 5$



Let $displaystyle zetaBig(1+fraclmBig) in N$ and let $m = lk+d$ where $gcd(l,d) = 1$ and $1 le d < l$.



Clearly, $c_2 le c_n < 1-gamma_0$ or $0.3724062 le c_n < 0.422785$.
Hence we must have $displaystyle 0.3724062 le fracdl < 0.422785$. The fraction with the smallest value of $l$ satisfying this condition is $displaystylefrac25 $ hence $l ge 5$.



Extending the same approach I am able to show that $l ge 41$.



Problems with this approach:



With this approach and with powerful computing, we can prove results like if $displaystyle zetaBig(1+fraclmBig) in N $ then $l$ must be greater than some large positive integer but I don't see how this approach will solve the general problem.






share|cite|improve this answer


















  • 1




    Nice work! Seems like a lot of progress. Is this your own problem?
    – quasi
    Aug 20 at 9:37










  • Thanks. Yes its my own problem that I worked way back in 2005 and then it got lost among other things. Revisiting it now after 13 years.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 20 at 9:52













up vote
3
down vote










up vote
3
down vote










Can you resolve the problem for any other value of l, other than l=1?
For example, can you resolve the case l=2?




Yes and in fact I can show that $l ge 41$. Here is the outline of my approach which I am posting as an answer since it is too long to be a comment.



Step 1: The first step was to derive the following result




For every integer $n ge 2$ there exists a positive real $c_n$ such
that $displaystyle zetaBig(1+frac1n-1+c_nBig) = n. $



The first few terms of the asymptotic expansion of $c_n$ in terms of $n$ and the Stieltjes constants $gamma_i$ are



$$ c_n = 1-gamma_0 + fracgamma_1n-1
+ fracgamma_2 + gamma_1 - gamma_0 gamma_1(n-1)^2 + OBig(frac1n^3Big) $$




Step 2: I computed the first few values of $c_n$ but I did not use the above result. Instead I used the following recurrence formula.




Let $alpha_0$ be any positive real and $displaystyle alpha_r+1 = n +
alpha_r - zetaBig(1+frac1n -1 + alpha_rBig); $ then $displaystyle lim_r to inftyalpha_r = c_n$.




Using this we obtained
$$
c_2 approx 0.3724062
$$
$$
c_3 approx 0.3932265
$$
$$
ldots
$$
$$
c_12 approx 0.4164435
$$



Step 3: Show that $l ge 5$



Let $displaystyle zetaBig(1+fraclmBig) in N$ and let $m = lk+d$ where $gcd(l,d) = 1$ and $1 le d < l$.



Clearly, $c_2 le c_n < 1-gamma_0$ or $0.3724062 le c_n < 0.422785$.
Hence we must have $displaystyle 0.3724062 le fracdl < 0.422785$. The fraction with the smallest value of $l$ satisfying this condition is $displaystylefrac25 $ hence $l ge 5$.



Extending the same approach I am able to show that $l ge 41$.



Problems with this approach:



With this approach and with powerful computing, we can prove results like if $displaystyle zetaBig(1+fraclmBig) in N $ then $l$ must be greater than some large positive integer but I don't see how this approach will solve the general problem.






share|cite|improve this answer















Can you resolve the problem for any other value of l, other than l=1?
For example, can you resolve the case l=2?




Yes and in fact I can show that $l ge 41$. Here is the outline of my approach which I am posting as an answer since it is too long to be a comment.



Step 1: The first step was to derive the following result




For every integer $n ge 2$ there exists a positive real $c_n$ such
that $displaystyle zetaBig(1+frac1n-1+c_nBig) = n. $



The first few terms of the asymptotic expansion of $c_n$ in terms of $n$ and the Stieltjes constants $gamma_i$ are



$$ c_n = 1-gamma_0 + fracgamma_1n-1
+ fracgamma_2 + gamma_1 - gamma_0 gamma_1(n-1)^2 + OBig(frac1n^3Big) $$




Step 2: I computed the first few values of $c_n$ but I did not use the above result. Instead I used the following recurrence formula.




Let $alpha_0$ be any positive real and $displaystyle alpha_r+1 = n +
alpha_r - zetaBig(1+frac1n -1 + alpha_rBig); $ then $displaystyle lim_r to inftyalpha_r = c_n$.




Using this we obtained
$$
c_2 approx 0.3724062
$$
$$
c_3 approx 0.3932265
$$
$$
ldots
$$
$$
c_12 approx 0.4164435
$$



Step 3: Show that $l ge 5$



Let $displaystyle zetaBig(1+fraclmBig) in N$ and let $m = lk+d$ where $gcd(l,d) = 1$ and $1 le d < l$.



Clearly, $c_2 le c_n < 1-gamma_0$ or $0.3724062 le c_n < 0.422785$.
Hence we must have $displaystyle 0.3724062 le fracdl < 0.422785$. The fraction with the smallest value of $l$ satisfying this condition is $displaystylefrac25 $ hence $l ge 5$.



Extending the same approach I am able to show that $l ge 41$.



Problems with this approach:



With this approach and with powerful computing, we can prove results like if $displaystyle zetaBig(1+fraclmBig) in N $ then $l$ must be greater than some large positive integer but I don't see how this approach will solve the general problem.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Aug 20 at 10:09

























answered Aug 20 at 7:57









Nilotpal Kanti Sinha

3,12011232




3,12011232







  • 1




    Nice work! Seems like a lot of progress. Is this your own problem?
    – quasi
    Aug 20 at 9:37










  • Thanks. Yes its my own problem that I worked way back in 2005 and then it got lost among other things. Revisiting it now after 13 years.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 20 at 9:52













  • 1




    Nice work! Seems like a lot of progress. Is this your own problem?
    – quasi
    Aug 20 at 9:37










  • Thanks. Yes its my own problem that I worked way back in 2005 and then it got lost among other things. Revisiting it now after 13 years.
    – Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
    Aug 20 at 9:52








1




1




Nice work! Seems like a lot of progress. Is this your own problem?
– quasi
Aug 20 at 9:37




Nice work! Seems like a lot of progress. Is this your own problem?
– quasi
Aug 20 at 9:37












Thanks. Yes its my own problem that I worked way back in 2005 and then it got lost among other things. Revisiting it now after 13 years.
– Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
Aug 20 at 9:52





Thanks. Yes its my own problem that I worked way back in 2005 and then it got lost among other things. Revisiting it now after 13 years.
– Nilotpal Kanti Sinha
Aug 20 at 9:52













 

draft saved


draft discarded


























 


draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2887379%2fdoes-there-exist-positive-rational-s-for-which-zetas-is-a-positive-intege%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest













































































這個網誌中的熱門文章

How to combine Bézier curves to a surface?

Mutual Information Always Non-negative

Why am i infinitely getting the same tweet with the Twitter Search API?