Prove that there exists precisely one $p in mathbb R$ such that $p in bigcap_n=1^infty D_n$

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For all $n in mathbb N$, let $D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ be a closed interval in $ mathbb R$ with $b_n - a_n > 0$. Suppose that
$$D_1 supset D_2 supset ....$$
Moreover, suppose that $lim_nrightarrowinfty(b_n - a_n) = 0$. Prove that there exists precisely one $p in mathbb R$ such that $p in bigcap_n=1^infty D_n$. (Then I will continue to check if this is also valid everywhere in $mathbb Q$.



Intuitively, it's very simple to draw a picture and see what is going on, and I have concluded that I have to work with the supremum of $(a_n)_ninmathbb N$ but I have no idea how to get started.



This is general preparation for a test, so hints would be preferred, thanks a lot.



(EDIT) My progress:



Define $p = sup$$(a_n)_n in mathbb N$.



It goes without saying that $pin D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ for all $ninmathbb N$ given by the properties of a supremum and how $b_n - a_n > 0$. Moreover by hypothesis; $e>0$, $ |b_n-p| le |b_n-a_n| le e$ (since $p ge a_n$) hence $b_n$ converges to p. I guess I need to show that the infimum of $a_n = p$ or something and thus by properties of infimum and supremum, there lies nothing inbetween.



Left to prove: p is the only thing in $bigcap_n=1^infty D_n$










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  • Sorry! Supremum of $a_n$ I mean!
    – Florian Suess
    Sep 8 at 6:53










  • Have you already heard of compacteness ?
    – Suzet
    Sep 8 at 6:56











  • Not by that name at the very least. Looking at this math.stackexchange.com/questions/607889/…, this seems to be not familiar to me at all.
    – Florian Suess
    Sep 8 at 7:00






  • 1




    This should work indeed. Note that $sup (a_n)$ also is the limit of the sequence $(a_n)$ (why does it converge ?). This may help proving that it lies in every $D_n$. Then, showing that the intersection can not contain more than one element should be easier.
    – Suzet
    Sep 8 at 7:18






  • 1




    The notation $(a_n)_nin mathbbN$ is usually defined, in ZFC set theory, as a function from the natural numbers into the reals. As such, you can write it $a : mathbbN rightarrow mathbb R$ and then the notation $(a_n)_n in mathbbN$ just means the image / range of $a$ which is definitely a valid set, since a function is simply a collection of tuples so that the range is projection onto the second component.
    – Mark
    Sep 8 at 7:35















up vote
3
down vote

favorite












For all $n in mathbb N$, let $D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ be a closed interval in $ mathbb R$ with $b_n - a_n > 0$. Suppose that
$$D_1 supset D_2 supset ....$$
Moreover, suppose that $lim_nrightarrowinfty(b_n - a_n) = 0$. Prove that there exists precisely one $p in mathbb R$ such that $p in bigcap_n=1^infty D_n$. (Then I will continue to check if this is also valid everywhere in $mathbb Q$.



Intuitively, it's very simple to draw a picture and see what is going on, and I have concluded that I have to work with the supremum of $(a_n)_ninmathbb N$ but I have no idea how to get started.



This is general preparation for a test, so hints would be preferred, thanks a lot.



(EDIT) My progress:



Define $p = sup$$(a_n)_n in mathbb N$.



It goes without saying that $pin D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ for all $ninmathbb N$ given by the properties of a supremum and how $b_n - a_n > 0$. Moreover by hypothesis; $e>0$, $ |b_n-p| le |b_n-a_n| le e$ (since $p ge a_n$) hence $b_n$ converges to p. I guess I need to show that the infimum of $a_n = p$ or something and thus by properties of infimum and supremum, there lies nothing inbetween.



Left to prove: p is the only thing in $bigcap_n=1^infty D_n$










share|cite|improve this question























  • Sorry! Supremum of $a_n$ I mean!
    – Florian Suess
    Sep 8 at 6:53










  • Have you already heard of compacteness ?
    – Suzet
    Sep 8 at 6:56











  • Not by that name at the very least. Looking at this math.stackexchange.com/questions/607889/…, this seems to be not familiar to me at all.
    – Florian Suess
    Sep 8 at 7:00






  • 1




    This should work indeed. Note that $sup (a_n)$ also is the limit of the sequence $(a_n)$ (why does it converge ?). This may help proving that it lies in every $D_n$. Then, showing that the intersection can not contain more than one element should be easier.
    – Suzet
    Sep 8 at 7:18






  • 1




    The notation $(a_n)_nin mathbbN$ is usually defined, in ZFC set theory, as a function from the natural numbers into the reals. As such, you can write it $a : mathbbN rightarrow mathbb R$ and then the notation $(a_n)_n in mathbbN$ just means the image / range of $a$ which is definitely a valid set, since a function is simply a collection of tuples so that the range is projection onto the second component.
    – Mark
    Sep 8 at 7:35













up vote
3
down vote

favorite









up vote
3
down vote

favorite











For all $n in mathbb N$, let $D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ be a closed interval in $ mathbb R$ with $b_n - a_n > 0$. Suppose that
$$D_1 supset D_2 supset ....$$
Moreover, suppose that $lim_nrightarrowinfty(b_n - a_n) = 0$. Prove that there exists precisely one $p in mathbb R$ such that $p in bigcap_n=1^infty D_n$. (Then I will continue to check if this is also valid everywhere in $mathbb Q$.



Intuitively, it's very simple to draw a picture and see what is going on, and I have concluded that I have to work with the supremum of $(a_n)_ninmathbb N$ but I have no idea how to get started.



This is general preparation for a test, so hints would be preferred, thanks a lot.



(EDIT) My progress:



Define $p = sup$$(a_n)_n in mathbb N$.



It goes without saying that $pin D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ for all $ninmathbb N$ given by the properties of a supremum and how $b_n - a_n > 0$. Moreover by hypothesis; $e>0$, $ |b_n-p| le |b_n-a_n| le e$ (since $p ge a_n$) hence $b_n$ converges to p. I guess I need to show that the infimum of $a_n = p$ or something and thus by properties of infimum and supremum, there lies nothing inbetween.



Left to prove: p is the only thing in $bigcap_n=1^infty D_n$










share|cite|improve this question















For all $n in mathbb N$, let $D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ be a closed interval in $ mathbb R$ with $b_n - a_n > 0$. Suppose that
$$D_1 supset D_2 supset ....$$
Moreover, suppose that $lim_nrightarrowinfty(b_n - a_n) = 0$. Prove that there exists precisely one $p in mathbb R$ such that $p in bigcap_n=1^infty D_n$. (Then I will continue to check if this is also valid everywhere in $mathbb Q$.



Intuitively, it's very simple to draw a picture and see what is going on, and I have concluded that I have to work with the supremum of $(a_n)_ninmathbb N$ but I have no idea how to get started.



This is general preparation for a test, so hints would be preferred, thanks a lot.



(EDIT) My progress:



Define $p = sup$$(a_n)_n in mathbb N$.



It goes without saying that $pin D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ for all $ninmathbb N$ given by the properties of a supremum and how $b_n - a_n > 0$. Moreover by hypothesis; $e>0$, $ |b_n-p| le |b_n-a_n| le e$ (since $p ge a_n$) hence $b_n$ converges to p. I guess I need to show that the infimum of $a_n = p$ or something and thus by properties of infimum and supremum, there lies nothing inbetween.



Left to prove: p is the only thing in $bigcap_n=1^infty D_n$







real-analysis






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edited Sep 8 at 7:45

























asked Sep 8 at 6:49









Florian Suess

329110




329110











  • Sorry! Supremum of $a_n$ I mean!
    – Florian Suess
    Sep 8 at 6:53










  • Have you already heard of compacteness ?
    – Suzet
    Sep 8 at 6:56











  • Not by that name at the very least. Looking at this math.stackexchange.com/questions/607889/…, this seems to be not familiar to me at all.
    – Florian Suess
    Sep 8 at 7:00






  • 1




    This should work indeed. Note that $sup (a_n)$ also is the limit of the sequence $(a_n)$ (why does it converge ?). This may help proving that it lies in every $D_n$. Then, showing that the intersection can not contain more than one element should be easier.
    – Suzet
    Sep 8 at 7:18






  • 1




    The notation $(a_n)_nin mathbbN$ is usually defined, in ZFC set theory, as a function from the natural numbers into the reals. As such, you can write it $a : mathbbN rightarrow mathbb R$ and then the notation $(a_n)_n in mathbbN$ just means the image / range of $a$ which is definitely a valid set, since a function is simply a collection of tuples so that the range is projection onto the second component.
    – Mark
    Sep 8 at 7:35

















  • Sorry! Supremum of $a_n$ I mean!
    – Florian Suess
    Sep 8 at 6:53










  • Have you already heard of compacteness ?
    – Suzet
    Sep 8 at 6:56











  • Not by that name at the very least. Looking at this math.stackexchange.com/questions/607889/…, this seems to be not familiar to me at all.
    – Florian Suess
    Sep 8 at 7:00






  • 1




    This should work indeed. Note that $sup (a_n)$ also is the limit of the sequence $(a_n)$ (why does it converge ?). This may help proving that it lies in every $D_n$. Then, showing that the intersection can not contain more than one element should be easier.
    – Suzet
    Sep 8 at 7:18






  • 1




    The notation $(a_n)_nin mathbbN$ is usually defined, in ZFC set theory, as a function from the natural numbers into the reals. As such, you can write it $a : mathbbN rightarrow mathbb R$ and then the notation $(a_n)_n in mathbbN$ just means the image / range of $a$ which is definitely a valid set, since a function is simply a collection of tuples so that the range is projection onto the second component.
    – Mark
    Sep 8 at 7:35
















Sorry! Supremum of $a_n$ I mean!
– Florian Suess
Sep 8 at 6:53




Sorry! Supremum of $a_n$ I mean!
– Florian Suess
Sep 8 at 6:53












Have you already heard of compacteness ?
– Suzet
Sep 8 at 6:56





Have you already heard of compacteness ?
– Suzet
Sep 8 at 6:56













Not by that name at the very least. Looking at this math.stackexchange.com/questions/607889/…, this seems to be not familiar to me at all.
– Florian Suess
Sep 8 at 7:00




Not by that name at the very least. Looking at this math.stackexchange.com/questions/607889/…, this seems to be not familiar to me at all.
– Florian Suess
Sep 8 at 7:00




1




1




This should work indeed. Note that $sup (a_n)$ also is the limit of the sequence $(a_n)$ (why does it converge ?). This may help proving that it lies in every $D_n$. Then, showing that the intersection can not contain more than one element should be easier.
– Suzet
Sep 8 at 7:18




This should work indeed. Note that $sup (a_n)$ also is the limit of the sequence $(a_n)$ (why does it converge ?). This may help proving that it lies in every $D_n$. Then, showing that the intersection can not contain more than one element should be easier.
– Suzet
Sep 8 at 7:18




1




1




The notation $(a_n)_nin mathbbN$ is usually defined, in ZFC set theory, as a function from the natural numbers into the reals. As such, you can write it $a : mathbbN rightarrow mathbb R$ and then the notation $(a_n)_n in mathbbN$ just means the image / range of $a$ which is definitely a valid set, since a function is simply a collection of tuples so that the range is projection onto the second component.
– Mark
Sep 8 at 7:35





The notation $(a_n)_nin mathbbN$ is usually defined, in ZFC set theory, as a function from the natural numbers into the reals. As such, you can write it $a : mathbbN rightarrow mathbb R$ and then the notation $(a_n)_n in mathbbN$ just means the image / range of $a$ which is definitely a valid set, since a function is simply a collection of tuples so that the range is projection onto the second component.
– Mark
Sep 8 at 7:35











6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
3
down vote



accepted










Hint



  • Prove that the sequence $(a_n)$ is Cauchy.

  • Prove that its limit $p$ belongs to all $D_n$.

  • Prove that there cannot exists two distinct points belonging to
    $displaystyle cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ by considering the
    distance between those potentially two distinct points.





share|cite|improve this answer


















  • 2




    To justify the existence of $lim (a_n)$, wouldn't it be easier to look at monotony ?
    – Suzet
    Sep 8 at 7:19







  • 2




    @Suzet That is an alternate option. I wouldn’t say easier as the fact that an increasing sequence converges in $mathbb R$ uses completeness of $mathbb R$.
    – user532133
    Sep 8 at 7:23










  • @j314159 Nice point, thank you !
    – Suzet
    Sep 8 at 7:23






  • 1




    @Mark For sure! The result doesn’t necessarily hold in a non complete space.
    – user532133
    Sep 8 at 7:28







  • 1




    Oh yes and this also clarifies OP's question about whether this is true in $mathbb Q$
    – Mark
    Sep 8 at 7:41

















up vote
1
down vote













Hint for uniqueness:



The (possibly infinite) intersection of closed intervals is a closed interval. Consider the width of the interval $cap D_n$






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    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Just a thought - here is how I would try to attack the problem:



    Let $varepsilon>0$. Since $undersetnrightarrowinftylim(b_n-a_n)=0,$ there exist $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$. Then we see that by your definition of $mathcalD_n$,
    $$bigcaplimits_n geq N_kmathcalD_nsubseteq bigcaplimits_n geq N_kbigg[a_n,a_n+frac12^k+1bigg).$$
    What happens if we union over $N_k in mathbbN$, and then intersect over all $k geq 1$?



    If you use similar inequalities and the convergence of $a_n-b_n$ you can show that $a_n$ Cauchy, and by completeness of $mathbbR$ conclude that it converges to some $p in mathbbR$. How does this impact the set-theoretic containments you obtained?






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • Thanks for the help! I'm a bit slow so I was wondering, how does the $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$ inequality hold? I understand $|b_n-a_n|<epsilon$
      – Florian Suess
      Sep 8 at 7:06










    • Since the $varepsilon>0$ in the definition of convergence is arbitrary, for each $k in mathbbN$ I can pick $varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$. Then to each $varepsilon_k$ corresponds an $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|a_n-b_n|<varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$.
      – Dan
      Sep 8 at 7:09


















    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Somebody cited compactness, I'll briefly state here: in a compact space, any collection of closed sets such that every finite subcollection has nonempty intersection (your nested sequence of closed intervals works), the intersection of the entire collection is not empty.
    This basically comes from the very definition of compactness, suitably manipulated. Of course, closed intervals in $BbbR $ are compact.



    From the linearity of the limit:
    $$lim_nto infty b_n = lim_nto infty a_n $$
    Call this limit $p$. We show that if $xneq p$, there is a closed interval that does not contain it; first of all, note that for every two distinct points in $BbbR $ you can find two disjoint open intervals that contain them. Let $U$ and $V$ be such intervals, for $p$ and $x$ respectively.



    Since $a_n to p$, there is $N$ such that $a_i in U$ for every $i geq N$. Similarly, since $b_n to p$, there is $N'$ such that $b_i in U$ for every $i geq N'$. Let $barN = max (N, N')$.



    Then the closed interval $[a_barN , b_barN] = D_barN$ is entirely contained in $U$; thus, it is disjoint from $V$. Since there is a closed interval that does not contain it, $x$ does not belong to the intersection of all $D_n$.






    share|cite|improve this answer





























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      Here is a late answer from a Rudin fan. As you correctly suspected, you should want to consider
      $$ x = sup_n geq 1 a_n, $$
      which exists finitely since $a_n leq b_1 < infty$ for all $n geq 1$. Then since we know that
      $$ a_n leq a_n+m leq b_n+m leq b_m $$
      for all $n,m geq 1$, we can conclude that
      $$a_m leq sup a_n = x leq b_m$$
      for all $m geq 1$. Hence $x in [a_m, b_m]$ for all $m geq 1$, and
      $$ x in bigcap_m geq 1 [a_m, b_m] = X. $$



      Now assume that $X$ contains another point $y not= x$. Then $y$ is at a positive distance from $x$. Put $r = |x-y| > 0.$ Then since $b_n-a_n to 0$, as $n to infty,$ we can choose $Ngeq 1$ so that
      $$ b_n - a_n < r, $$
      for all $n geq N$, and then the distance between any two points of $[a_n, b_n]$ is strictly less than $r$ for all $n geq N$. Hence $y$ cannot belong to $X$, and $X = x.$






      share|cite|improve this answer



























        up vote
        0
        down vote













        Thanks for all the responses, here is what I came up with in the end:



        Choose $x = sup$$(a_n)$ and $y = inf$$(b_n)$.



        It's easy to check $xin D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ $forall n in mathbb N$ (by definition of $x$ and hypothesis $b_n - a_n > 0$). Similarly with $y$.



        Following from the properties of supremum of $x$ (or properties of infimum $y$, you choose), we briskly conclude that $xle y$. Hence $[x,y]subseteq D_n$ for all $ninmathbb N$ which means $[x,y]subseteq bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n$. Now suppose $z in bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n$ then $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ for all $n in mathbb N$, hence $bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n subseteq [x,y]$.



        Hence $$bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n = [x,y]$$



        Suppose with a view to contradiction that $y ne x$, then set $epsilon = y-x > 0$. But... by hypothesis; $|b_n-a_n| lt epsilon$.



        And so it must be the case that, $x=y$.






        share|cite|improve this answer


















        • 1




          You proved that $[x,y]subseteq cap_n in mathbb N D_n$. You need to explain why the reverse inclusion holds.
          – mathcounterexamples.net
          Sep 8 at 9:03










        • Yeah, I've actually been working on it. I think a massive auxiliary is required, showing convergence of $a_n$ and $b_n$ and stuff and then some ugly counter example and stuff. It's in the works.
          – Florian Suess
          Sep 8 at 9:07






        • 1




          Only simple arguments are required! If $z in cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ then $a_n le z le b_n$ for all $n$. What can you conclude from there?
          – mathcounterexamples.net
          Sep 8 at 9:13











        • Oh true! $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ by definition of x and y! Hence $z in [x,y]$ and so $[x,y] = cap_n in mathbb N D_n$
          – Florian Suess
          Sep 8 at 9:16











        • Thanks so much!
          – Florian Suess
          Sep 8 at 9:18










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        6 Answers
        6






        active

        oldest

        votes








        6 Answers
        6






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes








        up vote
        3
        down vote



        accepted










        Hint



        • Prove that the sequence $(a_n)$ is Cauchy.

        • Prove that its limit $p$ belongs to all $D_n$.

        • Prove that there cannot exists two distinct points belonging to
          $displaystyle cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ by considering the
          distance between those potentially two distinct points.





        share|cite|improve this answer


















        • 2




          To justify the existence of $lim (a_n)$, wouldn't it be easier to look at monotony ?
          – Suzet
          Sep 8 at 7:19







        • 2




          @Suzet That is an alternate option. I wouldn’t say easier as the fact that an increasing sequence converges in $mathbb R$ uses completeness of $mathbb R$.
          – user532133
          Sep 8 at 7:23










        • @j314159 Nice point, thank you !
          – Suzet
          Sep 8 at 7:23






        • 1




          @Mark For sure! The result doesn’t necessarily hold in a non complete space.
          – user532133
          Sep 8 at 7:28







        • 1




          Oh yes and this also clarifies OP's question about whether this is true in $mathbb Q$
          – Mark
          Sep 8 at 7:41














        up vote
        3
        down vote



        accepted










        Hint



        • Prove that the sequence $(a_n)$ is Cauchy.

        • Prove that its limit $p$ belongs to all $D_n$.

        • Prove that there cannot exists two distinct points belonging to
          $displaystyle cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ by considering the
          distance between those potentially two distinct points.





        share|cite|improve this answer


















        • 2




          To justify the existence of $lim (a_n)$, wouldn't it be easier to look at monotony ?
          – Suzet
          Sep 8 at 7:19







        • 2




          @Suzet That is an alternate option. I wouldn’t say easier as the fact that an increasing sequence converges in $mathbb R$ uses completeness of $mathbb R$.
          – user532133
          Sep 8 at 7:23










        • @j314159 Nice point, thank you !
          – Suzet
          Sep 8 at 7:23






        • 1




          @Mark For sure! The result doesn’t necessarily hold in a non complete space.
          – user532133
          Sep 8 at 7:28







        • 1




          Oh yes and this also clarifies OP's question about whether this is true in $mathbb Q$
          – Mark
          Sep 8 at 7:41












        up vote
        3
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        3
        down vote



        accepted






        Hint



        • Prove that the sequence $(a_n)$ is Cauchy.

        • Prove that its limit $p$ belongs to all $D_n$.

        • Prove that there cannot exists two distinct points belonging to
          $displaystyle cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ by considering the
          distance between those potentially two distinct points.





        share|cite|improve this answer














        Hint



        • Prove that the sequence $(a_n)$ is Cauchy.

        • Prove that its limit $p$ belongs to all $D_n$.

        • Prove that there cannot exists two distinct points belonging to
          $displaystyle cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ by considering the
          distance between those potentially two distinct points.






        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Sep 8 at 7:24

























        answered Sep 8 at 7:15









        mathcounterexamples.net

        1




        1







        • 2




          To justify the existence of $lim (a_n)$, wouldn't it be easier to look at monotony ?
          – Suzet
          Sep 8 at 7:19







        • 2




          @Suzet That is an alternate option. I wouldn’t say easier as the fact that an increasing sequence converges in $mathbb R$ uses completeness of $mathbb R$.
          – user532133
          Sep 8 at 7:23










        • @j314159 Nice point, thank you !
          – Suzet
          Sep 8 at 7:23






        • 1




          @Mark For sure! The result doesn’t necessarily hold in a non complete space.
          – user532133
          Sep 8 at 7:28







        • 1




          Oh yes and this also clarifies OP's question about whether this is true in $mathbb Q$
          – Mark
          Sep 8 at 7:41












        • 2




          To justify the existence of $lim (a_n)$, wouldn't it be easier to look at monotony ?
          – Suzet
          Sep 8 at 7:19







        • 2




          @Suzet That is an alternate option. I wouldn’t say easier as the fact that an increasing sequence converges in $mathbb R$ uses completeness of $mathbb R$.
          – user532133
          Sep 8 at 7:23










        • @j314159 Nice point, thank you !
          – Suzet
          Sep 8 at 7:23






        • 1




          @Mark For sure! The result doesn’t necessarily hold in a non complete space.
          – user532133
          Sep 8 at 7:28







        • 1




          Oh yes and this also clarifies OP's question about whether this is true in $mathbb Q$
          – Mark
          Sep 8 at 7:41







        2




        2




        To justify the existence of $lim (a_n)$, wouldn't it be easier to look at monotony ?
        – Suzet
        Sep 8 at 7:19





        To justify the existence of $lim (a_n)$, wouldn't it be easier to look at monotony ?
        – Suzet
        Sep 8 at 7:19





        2




        2




        @Suzet That is an alternate option. I wouldn’t say easier as the fact that an increasing sequence converges in $mathbb R$ uses completeness of $mathbb R$.
        – user532133
        Sep 8 at 7:23




        @Suzet That is an alternate option. I wouldn’t say easier as the fact that an increasing sequence converges in $mathbb R$ uses completeness of $mathbb R$.
        – user532133
        Sep 8 at 7:23












        @j314159 Nice point, thank you !
        – Suzet
        Sep 8 at 7:23




        @j314159 Nice point, thank you !
        – Suzet
        Sep 8 at 7:23




        1




        1




        @Mark For sure! The result doesn’t necessarily hold in a non complete space.
        – user532133
        Sep 8 at 7:28





        @Mark For sure! The result doesn’t necessarily hold in a non complete space.
        – user532133
        Sep 8 at 7:28





        1




        1




        Oh yes and this also clarifies OP's question about whether this is true in $mathbb Q$
        – Mark
        Sep 8 at 7:41




        Oh yes and this also clarifies OP's question about whether this is true in $mathbb Q$
        – Mark
        Sep 8 at 7:41










        up vote
        1
        down vote













        Hint for uniqueness:



        The (possibly infinite) intersection of closed intervals is a closed interval. Consider the width of the interval $cap D_n$






        share|cite|improve this answer


























          up vote
          1
          down vote













          Hint for uniqueness:



          The (possibly infinite) intersection of closed intervals is a closed interval. Consider the width of the interval $cap D_n$






          share|cite|improve this answer
























            up vote
            1
            down vote










            up vote
            1
            down vote









            Hint for uniqueness:



            The (possibly infinite) intersection of closed intervals is a closed interval. Consider the width of the interval $cap D_n$






            share|cite|improve this answer














            Hint for uniqueness:



            The (possibly infinite) intersection of closed intervals is a closed interval. Consider the width of the interval $cap D_n$







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Sep 8 at 7:47

























            answered Sep 8 at 7:14









            Mark

            1,84322247




            1,84322247




















                up vote
                1
                down vote













                Just a thought - here is how I would try to attack the problem:



                Let $varepsilon>0$. Since $undersetnrightarrowinftylim(b_n-a_n)=0,$ there exist $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$. Then we see that by your definition of $mathcalD_n$,
                $$bigcaplimits_n geq N_kmathcalD_nsubseteq bigcaplimits_n geq N_kbigg[a_n,a_n+frac12^k+1bigg).$$
                What happens if we union over $N_k in mathbbN$, and then intersect over all $k geq 1$?



                If you use similar inequalities and the convergence of $a_n-b_n$ you can show that $a_n$ Cauchy, and by completeness of $mathbbR$ conclude that it converges to some $p in mathbbR$. How does this impact the set-theoretic containments you obtained?






                share|cite|improve this answer






















                • Thanks for the help! I'm a bit slow so I was wondering, how does the $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$ inequality hold? I understand $|b_n-a_n|<epsilon$
                  – Florian Suess
                  Sep 8 at 7:06










                • Since the $varepsilon>0$ in the definition of convergence is arbitrary, for each $k in mathbbN$ I can pick $varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$. Then to each $varepsilon_k$ corresponds an $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|a_n-b_n|<varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$.
                  – Dan
                  Sep 8 at 7:09















                up vote
                1
                down vote













                Just a thought - here is how I would try to attack the problem:



                Let $varepsilon>0$. Since $undersetnrightarrowinftylim(b_n-a_n)=0,$ there exist $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$. Then we see that by your definition of $mathcalD_n$,
                $$bigcaplimits_n geq N_kmathcalD_nsubseteq bigcaplimits_n geq N_kbigg[a_n,a_n+frac12^k+1bigg).$$
                What happens if we union over $N_k in mathbbN$, and then intersect over all $k geq 1$?



                If you use similar inequalities and the convergence of $a_n-b_n$ you can show that $a_n$ Cauchy, and by completeness of $mathbbR$ conclude that it converges to some $p in mathbbR$. How does this impact the set-theoretic containments you obtained?






                share|cite|improve this answer






















                • Thanks for the help! I'm a bit slow so I was wondering, how does the $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$ inequality hold? I understand $|b_n-a_n|<epsilon$
                  – Florian Suess
                  Sep 8 at 7:06










                • Since the $varepsilon>0$ in the definition of convergence is arbitrary, for each $k in mathbbN$ I can pick $varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$. Then to each $varepsilon_k$ corresponds an $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|a_n-b_n|<varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$.
                  – Dan
                  Sep 8 at 7:09













                up vote
                1
                down vote










                up vote
                1
                down vote









                Just a thought - here is how I would try to attack the problem:



                Let $varepsilon>0$. Since $undersetnrightarrowinftylim(b_n-a_n)=0,$ there exist $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$. Then we see that by your definition of $mathcalD_n$,
                $$bigcaplimits_n geq N_kmathcalD_nsubseteq bigcaplimits_n geq N_kbigg[a_n,a_n+frac12^k+1bigg).$$
                What happens if we union over $N_k in mathbbN$, and then intersect over all $k geq 1$?



                If you use similar inequalities and the convergence of $a_n-b_n$ you can show that $a_n$ Cauchy, and by completeness of $mathbbR$ conclude that it converges to some $p in mathbbR$. How does this impact the set-theoretic containments you obtained?






                share|cite|improve this answer














                Just a thought - here is how I would try to attack the problem:



                Let $varepsilon>0$. Since $undersetnrightarrowinftylim(b_n-a_n)=0,$ there exist $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$. Then we see that by your definition of $mathcalD_n$,
                $$bigcaplimits_n geq N_kmathcalD_nsubseteq bigcaplimits_n geq N_kbigg[a_n,a_n+frac12^k+1bigg).$$
                What happens if we union over $N_k in mathbbN$, and then intersect over all $k geq 1$?



                If you use similar inequalities and the convergence of $a_n-b_n$ you can show that $a_n$ Cauchy, and by completeness of $mathbbR$ conclude that it converges to some $p in mathbbR$. How does this impact the set-theoretic containments you obtained?







                share|cite|improve this answer














                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer








                edited Sep 8 at 7:49

























                answered Sep 8 at 7:02









                Dan

                564




                564











                • Thanks for the help! I'm a bit slow so I was wondering, how does the $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$ inequality hold? I understand $|b_n-a_n|<epsilon$
                  – Florian Suess
                  Sep 8 at 7:06










                • Since the $varepsilon>0$ in the definition of convergence is arbitrary, for each $k in mathbbN$ I can pick $varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$. Then to each $varepsilon_k$ corresponds an $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|a_n-b_n|<varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$.
                  – Dan
                  Sep 8 at 7:09

















                • Thanks for the help! I'm a bit slow so I was wondering, how does the $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$ inequality hold? I understand $|b_n-a_n|<epsilon$
                  – Florian Suess
                  Sep 8 at 7:06










                • Since the $varepsilon>0$ in the definition of convergence is arbitrary, for each $k in mathbbN$ I can pick $varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$. Then to each $varepsilon_k$ corresponds an $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|a_n-b_n|<varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$.
                  – Dan
                  Sep 8 at 7:09
















                Thanks for the help! I'm a bit slow so I was wondering, how does the $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$ inequality hold? I understand $|b_n-a_n|<epsilon$
                – Florian Suess
                Sep 8 at 7:06




                Thanks for the help! I'm a bit slow so I was wondering, how does the $|b_n-a_n|< frac12^k+1$ inequality hold? I understand $|b_n-a_n|<epsilon$
                – Florian Suess
                Sep 8 at 7:06












                Since the $varepsilon>0$ in the definition of convergence is arbitrary, for each $k in mathbbN$ I can pick $varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$. Then to each $varepsilon_k$ corresponds an $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|a_n-b_n|<varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$.
                – Dan
                Sep 8 at 7:09





                Since the $varepsilon>0$ in the definition of convergence is arbitrary, for each $k in mathbbN$ I can pick $varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$. Then to each $varepsilon_k$ corresponds an $N_k in mathbbN$ such that for all $n geq N_k$, $|a_n-b_n|<varepsilon_k=frac12^k+1$.
                – Dan
                Sep 8 at 7:09











                up vote
                1
                down vote













                Somebody cited compactness, I'll briefly state here: in a compact space, any collection of closed sets such that every finite subcollection has nonempty intersection (your nested sequence of closed intervals works), the intersection of the entire collection is not empty.
                This basically comes from the very definition of compactness, suitably manipulated. Of course, closed intervals in $BbbR $ are compact.



                From the linearity of the limit:
                $$lim_nto infty b_n = lim_nto infty a_n $$
                Call this limit $p$. We show that if $xneq p$, there is a closed interval that does not contain it; first of all, note that for every two distinct points in $BbbR $ you can find two disjoint open intervals that contain them. Let $U$ and $V$ be such intervals, for $p$ and $x$ respectively.



                Since $a_n to p$, there is $N$ such that $a_i in U$ for every $i geq N$. Similarly, since $b_n to p$, there is $N'$ such that $b_i in U$ for every $i geq N'$. Let $barN = max (N, N')$.



                Then the closed interval $[a_barN , b_barN] = D_barN$ is entirely contained in $U$; thus, it is disjoint from $V$. Since there is a closed interval that does not contain it, $x$ does not belong to the intersection of all $D_n$.






                share|cite|improve this answer


























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote













                  Somebody cited compactness, I'll briefly state here: in a compact space, any collection of closed sets such that every finite subcollection has nonempty intersection (your nested sequence of closed intervals works), the intersection of the entire collection is not empty.
                  This basically comes from the very definition of compactness, suitably manipulated. Of course, closed intervals in $BbbR $ are compact.



                  From the linearity of the limit:
                  $$lim_nto infty b_n = lim_nto infty a_n $$
                  Call this limit $p$. We show that if $xneq p$, there is a closed interval that does not contain it; first of all, note that for every two distinct points in $BbbR $ you can find two disjoint open intervals that contain them. Let $U$ and $V$ be such intervals, for $p$ and $x$ respectively.



                  Since $a_n to p$, there is $N$ such that $a_i in U$ for every $i geq N$. Similarly, since $b_n to p$, there is $N'$ such that $b_i in U$ for every $i geq N'$. Let $barN = max (N, N')$.



                  Then the closed interval $[a_barN , b_barN] = D_barN$ is entirely contained in $U$; thus, it is disjoint from $V$. Since there is a closed interval that does not contain it, $x$ does not belong to the intersection of all $D_n$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer
























                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote









                    Somebody cited compactness, I'll briefly state here: in a compact space, any collection of closed sets such that every finite subcollection has nonempty intersection (your nested sequence of closed intervals works), the intersection of the entire collection is not empty.
                    This basically comes from the very definition of compactness, suitably manipulated. Of course, closed intervals in $BbbR $ are compact.



                    From the linearity of the limit:
                    $$lim_nto infty b_n = lim_nto infty a_n $$
                    Call this limit $p$. We show that if $xneq p$, there is a closed interval that does not contain it; first of all, note that for every two distinct points in $BbbR $ you can find two disjoint open intervals that contain them. Let $U$ and $V$ be such intervals, for $p$ and $x$ respectively.



                    Since $a_n to p$, there is $N$ such that $a_i in U$ for every $i geq N$. Similarly, since $b_n to p$, there is $N'$ such that $b_i in U$ for every $i geq N'$. Let $barN = max (N, N')$.



                    Then the closed interval $[a_barN , b_barN] = D_barN$ is entirely contained in $U$; thus, it is disjoint from $V$. Since there is a closed interval that does not contain it, $x$ does not belong to the intersection of all $D_n$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    Somebody cited compactness, I'll briefly state here: in a compact space, any collection of closed sets such that every finite subcollection has nonempty intersection (your nested sequence of closed intervals works), the intersection of the entire collection is not empty.
                    This basically comes from the very definition of compactness, suitably manipulated. Of course, closed intervals in $BbbR $ are compact.



                    From the linearity of the limit:
                    $$lim_nto infty b_n = lim_nto infty a_n $$
                    Call this limit $p$. We show that if $xneq p$, there is a closed interval that does not contain it; first of all, note that for every two distinct points in $BbbR $ you can find two disjoint open intervals that contain them. Let $U$ and $V$ be such intervals, for $p$ and $x$ respectively.



                    Since $a_n to p$, there is $N$ such that $a_i in U$ for every $i geq N$. Similarly, since $b_n to p$, there is $N'$ such that $b_i in U$ for every $i geq N'$. Let $barN = max (N, N')$.



                    Then the closed interval $[a_barN , b_barN] = D_barN$ is entirely contained in $U$; thus, it is disjoint from $V$. Since there is a closed interval that does not contain it, $x$ does not belong to the intersection of all $D_n$.







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited Sep 8 at 8:12

























                    answered Sep 8 at 7:45









                    Niki Di Giano

                    798211




                    798211




















                        up vote
                        0
                        down vote













                        Here is a late answer from a Rudin fan. As you correctly suspected, you should want to consider
                        $$ x = sup_n geq 1 a_n, $$
                        which exists finitely since $a_n leq b_1 < infty$ for all $n geq 1$. Then since we know that
                        $$ a_n leq a_n+m leq b_n+m leq b_m $$
                        for all $n,m geq 1$, we can conclude that
                        $$a_m leq sup a_n = x leq b_m$$
                        for all $m geq 1$. Hence $x in [a_m, b_m]$ for all $m geq 1$, and
                        $$ x in bigcap_m geq 1 [a_m, b_m] = X. $$



                        Now assume that $X$ contains another point $y not= x$. Then $y$ is at a positive distance from $x$. Put $r = |x-y| > 0.$ Then since $b_n-a_n to 0$, as $n to infty,$ we can choose $Ngeq 1$ so that
                        $$ b_n - a_n < r, $$
                        for all $n geq N$, and then the distance between any two points of $[a_n, b_n]$ is strictly less than $r$ for all $n geq N$. Hence $y$ cannot belong to $X$, and $X = x.$






                        share|cite|improve this answer
























                          up vote
                          0
                          down vote













                          Here is a late answer from a Rudin fan. As you correctly suspected, you should want to consider
                          $$ x = sup_n geq 1 a_n, $$
                          which exists finitely since $a_n leq b_1 < infty$ for all $n geq 1$. Then since we know that
                          $$ a_n leq a_n+m leq b_n+m leq b_m $$
                          for all $n,m geq 1$, we can conclude that
                          $$a_m leq sup a_n = x leq b_m$$
                          for all $m geq 1$. Hence $x in [a_m, b_m]$ for all $m geq 1$, and
                          $$ x in bigcap_m geq 1 [a_m, b_m] = X. $$



                          Now assume that $X$ contains another point $y not= x$. Then $y$ is at a positive distance from $x$. Put $r = |x-y| > 0.$ Then since $b_n-a_n to 0$, as $n to infty,$ we can choose $Ngeq 1$ so that
                          $$ b_n - a_n < r, $$
                          for all $n geq N$, and then the distance between any two points of $[a_n, b_n]$ is strictly less than $r$ for all $n geq N$. Hence $y$ cannot belong to $X$, and $X = x.$






                          share|cite|improve this answer






















                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote









                            Here is a late answer from a Rudin fan. As you correctly suspected, you should want to consider
                            $$ x = sup_n geq 1 a_n, $$
                            which exists finitely since $a_n leq b_1 < infty$ for all $n geq 1$. Then since we know that
                            $$ a_n leq a_n+m leq b_n+m leq b_m $$
                            for all $n,m geq 1$, we can conclude that
                            $$a_m leq sup a_n = x leq b_m$$
                            for all $m geq 1$. Hence $x in [a_m, b_m]$ for all $m geq 1$, and
                            $$ x in bigcap_m geq 1 [a_m, b_m] = X. $$



                            Now assume that $X$ contains another point $y not= x$. Then $y$ is at a positive distance from $x$. Put $r = |x-y| > 0.$ Then since $b_n-a_n to 0$, as $n to infty,$ we can choose $Ngeq 1$ so that
                            $$ b_n - a_n < r, $$
                            for all $n geq N$, and then the distance between any two points of $[a_n, b_n]$ is strictly less than $r$ for all $n geq N$. Hence $y$ cannot belong to $X$, and $X = x.$






                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            Here is a late answer from a Rudin fan. As you correctly suspected, you should want to consider
                            $$ x = sup_n geq 1 a_n, $$
                            which exists finitely since $a_n leq b_1 < infty$ for all $n geq 1$. Then since we know that
                            $$ a_n leq a_n+m leq b_n+m leq b_m $$
                            for all $n,m geq 1$, we can conclude that
                            $$a_m leq sup a_n = x leq b_m$$
                            for all $m geq 1$. Hence $x in [a_m, b_m]$ for all $m geq 1$, and
                            $$ x in bigcap_m geq 1 [a_m, b_m] = X. $$



                            Now assume that $X$ contains another point $y not= x$. Then $y$ is at a positive distance from $x$. Put $r = |x-y| > 0.$ Then since $b_n-a_n to 0$, as $n to infty,$ we can choose $Ngeq 1$ so that
                            $$ b_n - a_n < r, $$
                            for all $n geq N$, and then the distance between any two points of $[a_n, b_n]$ is strictly less than $r$ for all $n geq N$. Hence $y$ cannot belong to $X$, and $X = x.$







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered Sep 8 at 7:50









                            Sobi

                            2,855517




                            2,855517




















                                up vote
                                0
                                down vote













                                Thanks for all the responses, here is what I came up with in the end:



                                Choose $x = sup$$(a_n)$ and $y = inf$$(b_n)$.



                                It's easy to check $xin D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ $forall n in mathbb N$ (by definition of $x$ and hypothesis $b_n - a_n > 0$). Similarly with $y$.



                                Following from the properties of supremum of $x$ (or properties of infimum $y$, you choose), we briskly conclude that $xle y$. Hence $[x,y]subseteq D_n$ for all $ninmathbb N$ which means $[x,y]subseteq bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n$. Now suppose $z in bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n$ then $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ for all $n in mathbb N$, hence $bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n subseteq [x,y]$.



                                Hence $$bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n = [x,y]$$



                                Suppose with a view to contradiction that $y ne x$, then set $epsilon = y-x > 0$. But... by hypothesis; $|b_n-a_n| lt epsilon$.



                                And so it must be the case that, $x=y$.






                                share|cite|improve this answer


















                                • 1




                                  You proved that $[x,y]subseteq cap_n in mathbb N D_n$. You need to explain why the reverse inclusion holds.
                                  – mathcounterexamples.net
                                  Sep 8 at 9:03










                                • Yeah, I've actually been working on it. I think a massive auxiliary is required, showing convergence of $a_n$ and $b_n$ and stuff and then some ugly counter example and stuff. It's in the works.
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:07






                                • 1




                                  Only simple arguments are required! If $z in cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ then $a_n le z le b_n$ for all $n$. What can you conclude from there?
                                  – mathcounterexamples.net
                                  Sep 8 at 9:13











                                • Oh true! $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ by definition of x and y! Hence $z in [x,y]$ and so $[x,y] = cap_n in mathbb N D_n$
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:16











                                • Thanks so much!
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:18














                                up vote
                                0
                                down vote













                                Thanks for all the responses, here is what I came up with in the end:



                                Choose $x = sup$$(a_n)$ and $y = inf$$(b_n)$.



                                It's easy to check $xin D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ $forall n in mathbb N$ (by definition of $x$ and hypothesis $b_n - a_n > 0$). Similarly with $y$.



                                Following from the properties of supremum of $x$ (or properties of infimum $y$, you choose), we briskly conclude that $xle y$. Hence $[x,y]subseteq D_n$ for all $ninmathbb N$ which means $[x,y]subseteq bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n$. Now suppose $z in bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n$ then $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ for all $n in mathbb N$, hence $bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n subseteq [x,y]$.



                                Hence $$bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n = [x,y]$$



                                Suppose with a view to contradiction that $y ne x$, then set $epsilon = y-x > 0$. But... by hypothesis; $|b_n-a_n| lt epsilon$.



                                And so it must be the case that, $x=y$.






                                share|cite|improve this answer


















                                • 1




                                  You proved that $[x,y]subseteq cap_n in mathbb N D_n$. You need to explain why the reverse inclusion holds.
                                  – mathcounterexamples.net
                                  Sep 8 at 9:03










                                • Yeah, I've actually been working on it. I think a massive auxiliary is required, showing convergence of $a_n$ and $b_n$ and stuff and then some ugly counter example and stuff. It's in the works.
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:07






                                • 1




                                  Only simple arguments are required! If $z in cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ then $a_n le z le b_n$ for all $n$. What can you conclude from there?
                                  – mathcounterexamples.net
                                  Sep 8 at 9:13











                                • Oh true! $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ by definition of x and y! Hence $z in [x,y]$ and so $[x,y] = cap_n in mathbb N D_n$
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:16











                                • Thanks so much!
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:18












                                up vote
                                0
                                down vote










                                up vote
                                0
                                down vote









                                Thanks for all the responses, here is what I came up with in the end:



                                Choose $x = sup$$(a_n)$ and $y = inf$$(b_n)$.



                                It's easy to check $xin D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ $forall n in mathbb N$ (by definition of $x$ and hypothesis $b_n - a_n > 0$). Similarly with $y$.



                                Following from the properties of supremum of $x$ (or properties of infimum $y$, you choose), we briskly conclude that $xle y$. Hence $[x,y]subseteq D_n$ for all $ninmathbb N$ which means $[x,y]subseteq bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n$. Now suppose $z in bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n$ then $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ for all $n in mathbb N$, hence $bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n subseteq [x,y]$.



                                Hence $$bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n = [x,y]$$



                                Suppose with a view to contradiction that $y ne x$, then set $epsilon = y-x > 0$. But... by hypothesis; $|b_n-a_n| lt epsilon$.



                                And so it must be the case that, $x=y$.






                                share|cite|improve this answer














                                Thanks for all the responses, here is what I came up with in the end:



                                Choose $x = sup$$(a_n)$ and $y = inf$$(b_n)$.



                                It's easy to check $xin D_n = [a_n, b_n]$ $forall n in mathbb N$ (by definition of $x$ and hypothesis $b_n - a_n > 0$). Similarly with $y$.



                                Following from the properties of supremum of $x$ (or properties of infimum $y$, you choose), we briskly conclude that $xle y$. Hence $[x,y]subseteq D_n$ for all $ninmathbb N$ which means $[x,y]subseteq bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n$. Now suppose $z in bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n$ then $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ for all $n in mathbb N$, hence $bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n subseteq [x,y]$.



                                Hence $$bigcap_n=1^inftyD_n = [x,y]$$



                                Suppose with a view to contradiction that $y ne x$, then set $epsilon = y-x > 0$. But... by hypothesis; $|b_n-a_n| lt epsilon$.



                                And so it must be the case that, $x=y$.







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                                edited Sep 8 at 9:22

























                                answered Sep 8 at 8:06









                                Florian Suess

                                329110




                                329110







                                • 1




                                  You proved that $[x,y]subseteq cap_n in mathbb N D_n$. You need to explain why the reverse inclusion holds.
                                  – mathcounterexamples.net
                                  Sep 8 at 9:03










                                • Yeah, I've actually been working on it. I think a massive auxiliary is required, showing convergence of $a_n$ and $b_n$ and stuff and then some ugly counter example and stuff. It's in the works.
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:07






                                • 1




                                  Only simple arguments are required! If $z in cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ then $a_n le z le b_n$ for all $n$. What can you conclude from there?
                                  – mathcounterexamples.net
                                  Sep 8 at 9:13











                                • Oh true! $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ by definition of x and y! Hence $z in [x,y]$ and so $[x,y] = cap_n in mathbb N D_n$
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:16











                                • Thanks so much!
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:18












                                • 1




                                  You proved that $[x,y]subseteq cap_n in mathbb N D_n$. You need to explain why the reverse inclusion holds.
                                  – mathcounterexamples.net
                                  Sep 8 at 9:03










                                • Yeah, I've actually been working on it. I think a massive auxiliary is required, showing convergence of $a_n$ and $b_n$ and stuff and then some ugly counter example and stuff. It's in the works.
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:07






                                • 1




                                  Only simple arguments are required! If $z in cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ then $a_n le z le b_n$ for all $n$. What can you conclude from there?
                                  – mathcounterexamples.net
                                  Sep 8 at 9:13











                                • Oh true! $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ by definition of x and y! Hence $z in [x,y]$ and so $[x,y] = cap_n in mathbb N D_n$
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:16











                                • Thanks so much!
                                  – Florian Suess
                                  Sep 8 at 9:18







                                1




                                1




                                You proved that $[x,y]subseteq cap_n in mathbb N D_n$. You need to explain why the reverse inclusion holds.
                                – mathcounterexamples.net
                                Sep 8 at 9:03




                                You proved that $[x,y]subseteq cap_n in mathbb N D_n$. You need to explain why the reverse inclusion holds.
                                – mathcounterexamples.net
                                Sep 8 at 9:03












                                Yeah, I've actually been working on it. I think a massive auxiliary is required, showing convergence of $a_n$ and $b_n$ and stuff and then some ugly counter example and stuff. It's in the works.
                                – Florian Suess
                                Sep 8 at 9:07




                                Yeah, I've actually been working on it. I think a massive auxiliary is required, showing convergence of $a_n$ and $b_n$ and stuff and then some ugly counter example and stuff. It's in the works.
                                – Florian Suess
                                Sep 8 at 9:07




                                1




                                1




                                Only simple arguments are required! If $z in cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ then $a_n le z le b_n$ for all $n$. What can you conclude from there?
                                – mathcounterexamples.net
                                Sep 8 at 9:13





                                Only simple arguments are required! If $z in cap_n in mathbb N D_n$ then $a_n le z le b_n$ for all $n$. What can you conclude from there?
                                – mathcounterexamples.net
                                Sep 8 at 9:13













                                Oh true! $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ by definition of x and y! Hence $z in [x,y]$ and so $[x,y] = cap_n in mathbb N D_n$
                                – Florian Suess
                                Sep 8 at 9:16





                                Oh true! $a_n le x le z le y le b_n$ by definition of x and y! Hence $z in [x,y]$ and so $[x,y] = cap_n in mathbb N D_n$
                                – Florian Suess
                                Sep 8 at 9:16













                                Thanks so much!
                                – Florian Suess
                                Sep 8 at 9:18




                                Thanks so much!
                                – Florian Suess
                                Sep 8 at 9:18

















                                 

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