Find $fracpartial zpartial x$ if $xy+yz+zx = 1$

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Find $fracpartial zpartial x$ if $xy+yz+zx = 1$




I don't understand this question at first. It looks like $x,y,z $ are dependent. So we proceed differentiation partially wrt x:



$$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0$$



This gives $$z_x = frac-z-y-y_xz-xy_xx+y$$



But given answer is $frac-z-yx+y$, meaning that they take $y_x = 0$, saying that $y$ and $x$ independent. But how this makes sense, then why not take $z$ and $x$ also dependent and say $z_x = 0$ ?



Please tell me the reasoning! I think that they mean to say treat $y$ as constant when finding $z_x$










share|cite|improve this question

























    up vote
    3
    down vote

    favorite













    Find $fracpartial zpartial x$ if $xy+yz+zx = 1$




    I don't understand this question at first. It looks like $x,y,z $ are dependent. So we proceed differentiation partially wrt x:



    $$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0$$



    This gives $$z_x = frac-z-y-y_xz-xy_xx+y$$



    But given answer is $frac-z-yx+y$, meaning that they take $y_x = 0$, saying that $y$ and $x$ independent. But how this makes sense, then why not take $z$ and $x$ also dependent and say $z_x = 0$ ?



    Please tell me the reasoning! I think that they mean to say treat $y$ as constant when finding $z_x$










    share|cite|improve this question























      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite












      Find $fracpartial zpartial x$ if $xy+yz+zx = 1$




      I don't understand this question at first. It looks like $x,y,z $ are dependent. So we proceed differentiation partially wrt x:



      $$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0$$



      This gives $$z_x = frac-z-y-y_xz-xy_xx+y$$



      But given answer is $frac-z-yx+y$, meaning that they take $y_x = 0$, saying that $y$ and $x$ independent. But how this makes sense, then why not take $z$ and $x$ also dependent and say $z_x = 0$ ?



      Please tell me the reasoning! I think that they mean to say treat $y$ as constant when finding $z_x$










      share|cite|improve this question














      Find $fracpartial zpartial x$ if $xy+yz+zx = 1$




      I don't understand this question at first. It looks like $x,y,z $ are dependent. So we proceed differentiation partially wrt x:



      $$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0$$



      This gives $$z_x = frac-z-y-y_xz-xy_xx+y$$



      But given answer is $frac-z-yx+y$, meaning that they take $y_x = 0$, saying that $y$ and $x$ independent. But how this makes sense, then why not take $z$ and $x$ also dependent and say $z_x = 0$ ?



      Please tell me the reasoning! I think that they mean to say treat $y$ as constant when finding $z_x$







      multivariable-calculus partial-derivative






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      asked Sep 8 at 7:04









      jeea

      47212




      47212




















          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          4
          down vote



          accepted










          You should understand the definition of the partial derivative.



          $fracpartial zpartial x$ implies "the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant.



          Hence (holding $y$ as constant, implying its derivative is zero):
          $$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0 iff \
          xcdot 0+y+0cdot z+z_xy+z_xx+z=0 iff \
          z_x=frac-y-zx+y.$$






          share|cite|improve this answer




















          • Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
            – paulplusx
            Sep 8 at 8:40











          • @paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
            – farruhota
            Sep 8 at 8:44











          • Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
            – paulplusx
            Sep 8 at 8:48











          • Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
            – jeea
            Sep 12 at 14:00

















          up vote
          4
          down vote













          Variables $x$ and $y$ are independent, but $z$ depends on both $x$ and $y$.



          More formally, you can use implicit function theorem. With this theorem, you will get



          $$fracpartial zpartial x = -fracfracpartial Fpartial xfracpartial Fpartial y$$



          where $F=xy+yz+zx-1$. Of course, given formula is true for points where $fracpartial Fpartial yne 0$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





























            up vote
            3
            down vote













            Hint: You can write $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$ and you do not need the implicit function theorem.






            share|cite|improve this answer



























              up vote
              2
              down vote













              As @Dr. Sonnhard Graubner said:



              You should take:



              $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$



              Partially differentiating with respect to $x$. we have:



              $$fracpartial zpartial x=z_x=frac(x+y)fracpartialpartial x(1-xy)-(1-xy)fracpartialpartial x(x+y)(x+y)^2$$



              $$z_x=frac-(x+y)y-(1-xy)(x+y)^2$$



              $$z_x=frac-y-frac(1-xy)x+yx+y$$



              $$z_x=frac-y- zx+y$$






              share|cite|improve this answer



























                up vote
                2
                down vote













                We have that



                $$xy+yz+zx = 1implies (y+z)dx+(x+z)dy+(y+x)dz=0$$



                then



                $$dz=fracpartial zpartial xdx+fracpartial zpartial xdy=-fracy+zy+xdx-fracx+zy+xdy$$



                and therefore



                $$fracpartial zpartial x=-fracy+zy+x, quad fracpartial zpartial y=-fracx+zy+x$$






                share|cite|improve this answer




















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                  5 Answers
                  5






                  active

                  oldest

                  votes








                  5 Answers
                  5






                  active

                  oldest

                  votes









                  active

                  oldest

                  votes






                  active

                  oldest

                  votes








                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote



                  accepted










                  You should understand the definition of the partial derivative.



                  $fracpartial zpartial x$ implies "the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant.



                  Hence (holding $y$ as constant, implying its derivative is zero):
                  $$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0 iff \
                  xcdot 0+y+0cdot z+z_xy+z_xx+z=0 iff \
                  z_x=frac-y-zx+y.$$






                  share|cite|improve this answer




















                  • Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
                    – paulplusx
                    Sep 8 at 8:40











                  • @paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
                    – farruhota
                    Sep 8 at 8:44











                  • Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
                    – paulplusx
                    Sep 8 at 8:48











                  • Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
                    – jeea
                    Sep 12 at 14:00














                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote



                  accepted










                  You should understand the definition of the partial derivative.



                  $fracpartial zpartial x$ implies "the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant.



                  Hence (holding $y$ as constant, implying its derivative is zero):
                  $$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0 iff \
                  xcdot 0+y+0cdot z+z_xy+z_xx+z=0 iff \
                  z_x=frac-y-zx+y.$$






                  share|cite|improve this answer




















                  • Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
                    – paulplusx
                    Sep 8 at 8:40











                  • @paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
                    – farruhota
                    Sep 8 at 8:44











                  • Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
                    – paulplusx
                    Sep 8 at 8:48











                  • Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
                    – jeea
                    Sep 12 at 14:00












                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote



                  accepted







                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote



                  accepted






                  You should understand the definition of the partial derivative.



                  $fracpartial zpartial x$ implies "the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant.



                  Hence (holding $y$ as constant, implying its derivative is zero):
                  $$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0 iff \
                  xcdot 0+y+0cdot z+z_xy+z_xx+z=0 iff \
                  z_x=frac-y-zx+y.$$






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  You should understand the definition of the partial derivative.



                  $fracpartial zpartial x$ implies "the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant.



                  Hence (holding $y$ as constant, implying its derivative is zero):
                  $$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0 iff \
                  xcdot 0+y+0cdot z+z_xy+z_xx+z=0 iff \
                  z_x=frac-y-zx+y.$$







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Sep 8 at 8:10









                  farruhota

                  15.6k2734




                  15.6k2734











                  • Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
                    – paulplusx
                    Sep 8 at 8:40











                  • @paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
                    – farruhota
                    Sep 8 at 8:44











                  • Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
                    – paulplusx
                    Sep 8 at 8:48











                  • Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
                    – jeea
                    Sep 12 at 14:00
















                  • Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
                    – paulplusx
                    Sep 8 at 8:40











                  • @paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
                    – farruhota
                    Sep 8 at 8:44











                  • Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
                    – paulplusx
                    Sep 8 at 8:48











                  • Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
                    – jeea
                    Sep 12 at 14:00















                  Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
                  – paulplusx
                  Sep 8 at 8:40





                  Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
                  – paulplusx
                  Sep 8 at 8:40













                  @paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
                  – farruhota
                  Sep 8 at 8:44





                  @paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
                  – farruhota
                  Sep 8 at 8:44













                  Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
                  – paulplusx
                  Sep 8 at 8:48





                  Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
                  – paulplusx
                  Sep 8 at 8:48













                  Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
                  – jeea
                  Sep 12 at 14:00




                  Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
                  – jeea
                  Sep 12 at 14:00










                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote













                  Variables $x$ and $y$ are independent, but $z$ depends on both $x$ and $y$.



                  More formally, you can use implicit function theorem. With this theorem, you will get



                  $$fracpartial zpartial x = -fracfracpartial Fpartial xfracpartial Fpartial y$$



                  where $F=xy+yz+zx-1$. Of course, given formula is true for points where $fracpartial Fpartial yne 0$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer


























                    up vote
                    4
                    down vote













                    Variables $x$ and $y$ are independent, but $z$ depends on both $x$ and $y$.



                    More formally, you can use implicit function theorem. With this theorem, you will get



                    $$fracpartial zpartial x = -fracfracpartial Fpartial xfracpartial Fpartial y$$



                    where $F=xy+yz+zx-1$. Of course, given formula is true for points where $fracpartial Fpartial yne 0$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer
























                      up vote
                      4
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      4
                      down vote









                      Variables $x$ and $y$ are independent, but $z$ depends on both $x$ and $y$.



                      More formally, you can use implicit function theorem. With this theorem, you will get



                      $$fracpartial zpartial x = -fracfracpartial Fpartial xfracpartial Fpartial y$$



                      where $F=xy+yz+zx-1$. Of course, given formula is true for points where $fracpartial Fpartial yne 0$.






                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      Variables $x$ and $y$ are independent, but $z$ depends on both $x$ and $y$.



                      More formally, you can use implicit function theorem. With this theorem, you will get



                      $$fracpartial zpartial x = -fracfracpartial Fpartial xfracpartial Fpartial y$$



                      where $F=xy+yz+zx-1$. Of course, given formula is true for points where $fracpartial Fpartial yne 0$.







                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer








                      edited Sep 8 at 7:59

























                      answered Sep 8 at 7:17









                      Nikola Ubavić

                      805




                      805




















                          up vote
                          3
                          down vote













                          Hint: You can write $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$ and you do not need the implicit function theorem.






                          share|cite|improve this answer
























                            up vote
                            3
                            down vote













                            Hint: You can write $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$ and you do not need the implicit function theorem.






                            share|cite|improve this answer






















                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote









                              Hint: You can write $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$ and you do not need the implicit function theorem.






                              share|cite|improve this answer












                              Hint: You can write $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$ and you do not need the implicit function theorem.







                              share|cite|improve this answer












                              share|cite|improve this answer



                              share|cite|improve this answer










                              answered Sep 8 at 7:45









                              Dr. Sonnhard Graubner

                              69k32761




                              69k32761




















                                  up vote
                                  2
                                  down vote













                                  As @Dr. Sonnhard Graubner said:



                                  You should take:



                                  $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$



                                  Partially differentiating with respect to $x$. we have:



                                  $$fracpartial zpartial x=z_x=frac(x+y)fracpartialpartial x(1-xy)-(1-xy)fracpartialpartial x(x+y)(x+y)^2$$



                                  $$z_x=frac-(x+y)y-(1-xy)(x+y)^2$$



                                  $$z_x=frac-y-frac(1-xy)x+yx+y$$



                                  $$z_x=frac-y- zx+y$$






                                  share|cite|improve this answer
























                                    up vote
                                    2
                                    down vote













                                    As @Dr. Sonnhard Graubner said:



                                    You should take:



                                    $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$



                                    Partially differentiating with respect to $x$. we have:



                                    $$fracpartial zpartial x=z_x=frac(x+y)fracpartialpartial x(1-xy)-(1-xy)fracpartialpartial x(x+y)(x+y)^2$$



                                    $$z_x=frac-(x+y)y-(1-xy)(x+y)^2$$



                                    $$z_x=frac-y-frac(1-xy)x+yx+y$$



                                    $$z_x=frac-y- zx+y$$






                                    share|cite|improve this answer






















                                      up vote
                                      2
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      2
                                      down vote









                                      As @Dr. Sonnhard Graubner said:



                                      You should take:



                                      $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$



                                      Partially differentiating with respect to $x$. we have:



                                      $$fracpartial zpartial x=z_x=frac(x+y)fracpartialpartial x(1-xy)-(1-xy)fracpartialpartial x(x+y)(x+y)^2$$



                                      $$z_x=frac-(x+y)y-(1-xy)(x+y)^2$$



                                      $$z_x=frac-y-frac(1-xy)x+yx+y$$



                                      $$z_x=frac-y- zx+y$$






                                      share|cite|improve this answer












                                      As @Dr. Sonnhard Graubner said:



                                      You should take:



                                      $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$



                                      Partially differentiating with respect to $x$. we have:



                                      $$fracpartial zpartial x=z_x=frac(x+y)fracpartialpartial x(1-xy)-(1-xy)fracpartialpartial x(x+y)(x+y)^2$$



                                      $$z_x=frac-(x+y)y-(1-xy)(x+y)^2$$



                                      $$z_x=frac-y-frac(1-xy)x+yx+y$$



                                      $$z_x=frac-y- zx+y$$







                                      share|cite|improve this answer












                                      share|cite|improve this answer



                                      share|cite|improve this answer










                                      answered Sep 8 at 8:00









                                      paulplusx

                                      1,056318




                                      1,056318




















                                          up vote
                                          2
                                          down vote













                                          We have that



                                          $$xy+yz+zx = 1implies (y+z)dx+(x+z)dy+(y+x)dz=0$$



                                          then



                                          $$dz=fracpartial zpartial xdx+fracpartial zpartial xdy=-fracy+zy+xdx-fracx+zy+xdy$$



                                          and therefore



                                          $$fracpartial zpartial x=-fracy+zy+x, quad fracpartial zpartial y=-fracx+zy+x$$






                                          share|cite|improve this answer
























                                            up vote
                                            2
                                            down vote













                                            We have that



                                            $$xy+yz+zx = 1implies (y+z)dx+(x+z)dy+(y+x)dz=0$$



                                            then



                                            $$dz=fracpartial zpartial xdx+fracpartial zpartial xdy=-fracy+zy+xdx-fracx+zy+xdy$$



                                            and therefore



                                            $$fracpartial zpartial x=-fracy+zy+x, quad fracpartial zpartial y=-fracx+zy+x$$






                                            share|cite|improve this answer






















                                              up vote
                                              2
                                              down vote










                                              up vote
                                              2
                                              down vote









                                              We have that



                                              $$xy+yz+zx = 1implies (y+z)dx+(x+z)dy+(y+x)dz=0$$



                                              then



                                              $$dz=fracpartial zpartial xdx+fracpartial zpartial xdy=-fracy+zy+xdx-fracx+zy+xdy$$



                                              and therefore



                                              $$fracpartial zpartial x=-fracy+zy+x, quad fracpartial zpartial y=-fracx+zy+x$$






                                              share|cite|improve this answer












                                              We have that



                                              $$xy+yz+zx = 1implies (y+z)dx+(x+z)dy+(y+x)dz=0$$



                                              then



                                              $$dz=fracpartial zpartial xdx+fracpartial zpartial xdy=-fracy+zy+xdx-fracx+zy+xdy$$



                                              and therefore



                                              $$fracpartial zpartial x=-fracy+zy+x, quad fracpartial zpartial y=-fracx+zy+x$$







                                              share|cite|improve this answer












                                              share|cite|improve this answer



                                              share|cite|improve this answer










                                              answered Sep 8 at 8:14









                                              gimusi

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