Find $fracpartial zpartial x$ if $xy+yz+zx = 1$
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Find $fracpartial zpartial x$ if $xy+yz+zx = 1$
I don't understand this question at first. It looks like $x,y,z $ are dependent. So we proceed differentiation partially wrt x:
$$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0$$
This gives $$z_x = frac-z-y-y_xz-xy_xx+y$$
But given answer is $frac-z-yx+y$, meaning that they take $y_x = 0$, saying that $y$ and $x$ independent. But how this makes sense, then why not take $z$ and $x$ also dependent and say $z_x = 0$ ?
Please tell me the reasoning! I think that they mean to say treat $y$ as constant when finding $z_x$
multivariable-calculus partial-derivative
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up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Find $fracpartial zpartial x$ if $xy+yz+zx = 1$
I don't understand this question at first. It looks like $x,y,z $ are dependent. So we proceed differentiation partially wrt x:
$$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0$$
This gives $$z_x = frac-z-y-y_xz-xy_xx+y$$
But given answer is $frac-z-yx+y$, meaning that they take $y_x = 0$, saying that $y$ and $x$ independent. But how this makes sense, then why not take $z$ and $x$ also dependent and say $z_x = 0$ ?
Please tell me the reasoning! I think that they mean to say treat $y$ as constant when finding $z_x$
multivariable-calculus partial-derivative
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Find $fracpartial zpartial x$ if $xy+yz+zx = 1$
I don't understand this question at first. It looks like $x,y,z $ are dependent. So we proceed differentiation partially wrt x:
$$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0$$
This gives $$z_x = frac-z-y-y_xz-xy_xx+y$$
But given answer is $frac-z-yx+y$, meaning that they take $y_x = 0$, saying that $y$ and $x$ independent. But how this makes sense, then why not take $z$ and $x$ also dependent and say $z_x = 0$ ?
Please tell me the reasoning! I think that they mean to say treat $y$ as constant when finding $z_x$
multivariable-calculus partial-derivative
Find $fracpartial zpartial x$ if $xy+yz+zx = 1$
I don't understand this question at first. It looks like $x,y,z $ are dependent. So we proceed differentiation partially wrt x:
$$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0$$
This gives $$z_x = frac-z-y-y_xz-xy_xx+y$$
But given answer is $frac-z-yx+y$, meaning that they take $y_x = 0$, saying that $y$ and $x$ independent. But how this makes sense, then why not take $z$ and $x$ also dependent and say $z_x = 0$ ?
Please tell me the reasoning! I think that they mean to say treat $y$ as constant when finding $z_x$
multivariable-calculus partial-derivative
multivariable-calculus partial-derivative
asked Sep 8 at 7:04
jeea
47212
47212
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5 Answers
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up vote
4
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You should understand the definition of the partial derivative.
$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies "the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant.
Hence (holding $y$ as constant, implying its derivative is zero):
$$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0 iff \
xcdot 0+y+0cdot z+z_xy+z_xx+z=0 iff \
z_x=frac-y-zx+y.$$
Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:40
@paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
â farruhota
Sep 8 at 8:44
Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:48
Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
â jeea
Sep 12 at 14:00
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Variables $x$ and $y$ are independent, but $z$ depends on both $x$ and $y$.
More formally, you can use implicit function theorem. With this theorem, you will get
$$fracpartial zpartial x = -fracfracpartial Fpartial xfracpartial Fpartial y$$
where $F=xy+yz+zx-1$. Of course, given formula is true for points where $fracpartial Fpartial yne 0$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Hint: You can write $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$ and you do not need the implicit function theorem.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
As @Dr. Sonnhard Graubner said:
You should take:
$$z=frac1-xyx+y$$
Partially differentiating with respect to $x$. we have:
$$fracpartial zpartial x=z_x=frac(x+y)fracpartialpartial x(1-xy)-(1-xy)fracpartialpartial x(x+y)(x+y)^2$$
$$z_x=frac-(x+y)y-(1-xy)(x+y)^2$$
$$z_x=frac-y-frac(1-xy)x+yx+y$$
$$z_x=frac-y- zx+y$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
We have that
$$xy+yz+zx = 1implies (y+z)dx+(x+z)dy+(y+x)dz=0$$
then
$$dz=fracpartial zpartial xdx+fracpartial zpartial xdy=-fracy+zy+xdx-fracx+zy+xdy$$
and therefore
$$fracpartial zpartial x=-fracy+zy+x, quad fracpartial zpartial y=-fracx+zy+x$$
add a comment |Â
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
You should understand the definition of the partial derivative.
$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies "the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant.
Hence (holding $y$ as constant, implying its derivative is zero):
$$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0 iff \
xcdot 0+y+0cdot z+z_xy+z_xx+z=0 iff \
z_x=frac-y-zx+y.$$
Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:40
@paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
â farruhota
Sep 8 at 8:44
Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:48
Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
â jeea
Sep 12 at 14:00
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
You should understand the definition of the partial derivative.
$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies "the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant.
Hence (holding $y$ as constant, implying its derivative is zero):
$$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0 iff \
xcdot 0+y+0cdot z+z_xy+z_xx+z=0 iff \
z_x=frac-y-zx+y.$$
Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:40
@paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
â farruhota
Sep 8 at 8:44
Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:48
Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
â jeea
Sep 12 at 14:00
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
up vote
4
down vote
accepted
You should understand the definition of the partial derivative.
$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies "the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant.
Hence (holding $y$ as constant, implying its derivative is zero):
$$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0 iff \
xcdot 0+y+0cdot z+z_xy+z_xx+z=0 iff \
z_x=frac-y-zx+y.$$
You should understand the definition of the partial derivative.
$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies "the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant.
Hence (holding $y$ as constant, implying its derivative is zero):
$$xy_x +y + y_x z + z_x y + z_x x+z=0 iff \
xcdot 0+y+0cdot z+z_xy+z_xx+z=0 iff \
z_x=frac-y-zx+y.$$
answered Sep 8 at 8:10
farruhota
15.6k2734
15.6k2734
Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:40
@paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
â farruhota
Sep 8 at 8:44
Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:48
Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
â jeea
Sep 12 at 14:00
add a comment |Â
Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:40
@paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
â farruhota
Sep 8 at 8:44
Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:48
Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
â jeea
Sep 12 at 14:00
Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:40
Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be "derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$" as you are mentioning that other variables should be constant, so no need to mention the term partial as it behaves like a normal derivative with respect to $x$.
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:40
@paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
â farruhota
Sep 8 at 8:44
@paulplusx, see the difference in notations: $fracdzdx$ (ordinary), $fracpartial zpartial x$ (partial).
â farruhota
Sep 8 at 8:44
Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:48
Edited comment: Yes, that's a fair point. I was trying to convey it intuitively, I think. More like "$fracpartial zpartial x$ implies the partial derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, which is simply the derivative of $z$ with respect to $x$, with other variables held constant."
â paulplusx
Sep 8 at 8:48
Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
â jeea
Sep 12 at 14:00
Should we use the notation $left(dfracpartial zpartial x right)_y$ @paulplusx
â jeea
Sep 12 at 14:00
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Variables $x$ and $y$ are independent, but $z$ depends on both $x$ and $y$.
More formally, you can use implicit function theorem. With this theorem, you will get
$$fracpartial zpartial x = -fracfracpartial Fpartial xfracpartial Fpartial y$$
where $F=xy+yz+zx-1$. Of course, given formula is true for points where $fracpartial Fpartial yne 0$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Variables $x$ and $y$ are independent, but $z$ depends on both $x$ and $y$.
More formally, you can use implicit function theorem. With this theorem, you will get
$$fracpartial zpartial x = -fracfracpartial Fpartial xfracpartial Fpartial y$$
where $F=xy+yz+zx-1$. Of course, given formula is true for points where $fracpartial Fpartial yne 0$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Variables $x$ and $y$ are independent, but $z$ depends on both $x$ and $y$.
More formally, you can use implicit function theorem. With this theorem, you will get
$$fracpartial zpartial x = -fracfracpartial Fpartial xfracpartial Fpartial y$$
where $F=xy+yz+zx-1$. Of course, given formula is true for points where $fracpartial Fpartial yne 0$.
Variables $x$ and $y$ are independent, but $z$ depends on both $x$ and $y$.
More formally, you can use implicit function theorem. With this theorem, you will get
$$fracpartial zpartial x = -fracfracpartial Fpartial xfracpartial Fpartial y$$
where $F=xy+yz+zx-1$. Of course, given formula is true for points where $fracpartial Fpartial yne 0$.
edited Sep 8 at 7:59
answered Sep 8 at 7:17
Nikola UbaviÃÂ
805
805
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Hint: You can write $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$ and you do not need the implicit function theorem.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Hint: You can write $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$ and you do not need the implicit function theorem.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Hint: You can write $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$ and you do not need the implicit function theorem.
Hint: You can write $$z=frac1-xyx+y$$ and you do not need the implicit function theorem.
answered Sep 8 at 7:45
Dr. Sonnhard Graubner
69k32761
69k32761
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
As @Dr. Sonnhard Graubner said:
You should take:
$$z=frac1-xyx+y$$
Partially differentiating with respect to $x$. we have:
$$fracpartial zpartial x=z_x=frac(x+y)fracpartialpartial x(1-xy)-(1-xy)fracpartialpartial x(x+y)(x+y)^2$$
$$z_x=frac-(x+y)y-(1-xy)(x+y)^2$$
$$z_x=frac-y-frac(1-xy)x+yx+y$$
$$z_x=frac-y- zx+y$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
As @Dr. Sonnhard Graubner said:
You should take:
$$z=frac1-xyx+y$$
Partially differentiating with respect to $x$. we have:
$$fracpartial zpartial x=z_x=frac(x+y)fracpartialpartial x(1-xy)-(1-xy)fracpartialpartial x(x+y)(x+y)^2$$
$$z_x=frac-(x+y)y-(1-xy)(x+y)^2$$
$$z_x=frac-y-frac(1-xy)x+yx+y$$
$$z_x=frac-y- zx+y$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
As @Dr. Sonnhard Graubner said:
You should take:
$$z=frac1-xyx+y$$
Partially differentiating with respect to $x$. we have:
$$fracpartial zpartial x=z_x=frac(x+y)fracpartialpartial x(1-xy)-(1-xy)fracpartialpartial x(x+y)(x+y)^2$$
$$z_x=frac-(x+y)y-(1-xy)(x+y)^2$$
$$z_x=frac-y-frac(1-xy)x+yx+y$$
$$z_x=frac-y- zx+y$$
As @Dr. Sonnhard Graubner said:
You should take:
$$z=frac1-xyx+y$$
Partially differentiating with respect to $x$. we have:
$$fracpartial zpartial x=z_x=frac(x+y)fracpartialpartial x(1-xy)-(1-xy)fracpartialpartial x(x+y)(x+y)^2$$
$$z_x=frac-(x+y)y-(1-xy)(x+y)^2$$
$$z_x=frac-y-frac(1-xy)x+yx+y$$
$$z_x=frac-y- zx+y$$
answered Sep 8 at 8:00
paulplusx
1,056318
1,056318
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
We have that
$$xy+yz+zx = 1implies (y+z)dx+(x+z)dy+(y+x)dz=0$$
then
$$dz=fracpartial zpartial xdx+fracpartial zpartial xdy=-fracy+zy+xdx-fracx+zy+xdy$$
and therefore
$$fracpartial zpartial x=-fracy+zy+x, quad fracpartial zpartial y=-fracx+zy+x$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
We have that
$$xy+yz+zx = 1implies (y+z)dx+(x+z)dy+(y+x)dz=0$$
then
$$dz=fracpartial zpartial xdx+fracpartial zpartial xdy=-fracy+zy+xdx-fracx+zy+xdy$$
and therefore
$$fracpartial zpartial x=-fracy+zy+x, quad fracpartial zpartial y=-fracx+zy+x$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
We have that
$$xy+yz+zx = 1implies (y+z)dx+(x+z)dy+(y+x)dz=0$$
then
$$dz=fracpartial zpartial xdx+fracpartial zpartial xdy=-fracy+zy+xdx-fracx+zy+xdy$$
and therefore
$$fracpartial zpartial x=-fracy+zy+x, quad fracpartial zpartial y=-fracx+zy+x$$
We have that
$$xy+yz+zx = 1implies (y+z)dx+(x+z)dy+(y+x)dz=0$$
then
$$dz=fracpartial zpartial xdx+fracpartial zpartial xdy=-fracy+zy+xdx-fracx+zy+xdy$$
and therefore
$$fracpartial zpartial x=-fracy+zy+x, quad fracpartial zpartial y=-fracx+zy+x$$
answered Sep 8 at 8:14
gimusi
74.1k73889
74.1k73889
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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