Can the span of $L(I,A,A^2,cdots,A^k,..)$ have more than $n$ elements?

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Let $Ain M_n$. Can dimension of subspace $L(I,A,A^2,ldots,A^k,ldots)$ of $M_n$ can be bigger than $n$?



Using Cayley Hamilton theorem that every matrices $A^n$ can expressed as linear combination of $(A^n-1,A^n-2,ldots,I)$ and $p(A)=0$,



if say opposite,and you say that it have more than n elements so it must exist some $A^n+1$ that you can expressed as linear combination, so that mean that we have $0=a_n+1A^n+1+a_nA^n + cdots +a_0I$



since $p(A)=0$, $0=a_n+1A^n+1+p(A)$, that mean that $a_n+1A^n+1=0$, so it opposite what we think so, we only can have n elements, is this ok?










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    Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
    – max_zorn
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down vote

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Let $Ain M_n$. Can dimension of subspace $L(I,A,A^2,ldots,A^k,ldots)$ of $M_n$ can be bigger than $n$?



Using Cayley Hamilton theorem that every matrices $A^n$ can expressed as linear combination of $(A^n-1,A^n-2,ldots,I)$ and $p(A)=0$,



if say opposite,and you say that it have more than n elements so it must exist some $A^n+1$ that you can expressed as linear combination, so that mean that we have $0=a_n+1A^n+1+a_nA^n + cdots +a_0I$



since $p(A)=0$, $0=a_n+1A^n+1+p(A)$, that mean that $a_n+1A^n+1=0$, so it opposite what we think so, we only can have n elements, is this ok?










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 2




    Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
    – max_zorn
    Sep 8 at 7:09












up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1






1





Let $Ain M_n$. Can dimension of subspace $L(I,A,A^2,ldots,A^k,ldots)$ of $M_n$ can be bigger than $n$?



Using Cayley Hamilton theorem that every matrices $A^n$ can expressed as linear combination of $(A^n-1,A^n-2,ldots,I)$ and $p(A)=0$,



if say opposite,and you say that it have more than n elements so it must exist some $A^n+1$ that you can expressed as linear combination, so that mean that we have $0=a_n+1A^n+1+a_nA^n + cdots +a_0I$



since $p(A)=0$, $0=a_n+1A^n+1+p(A)$, that mean that $a_n+1A^n+1=0$, so it opposite what we think so, we only can have n elements, is this ok?










share|cite|improve this question















Let $Ain M_n$. Can dimension of subspace $L(I,A,A^2,ldots,A^k,ldots)$ of $M_n$ can be bigger than $n$?



Using Cayley Hamilton theorem that every matrices $A^n$ can expressed as linear combination of $(A^n-1,A^n-2,ldots,I)$ and $p(A)=0$,



if say opposite,and you say that it have more than n elements so it must exist some $A^n+1$ that you can expressed as linear combination, so that mean that we have $0=a_n+1A^n+1+a_nA^n + cdots +a_0I$



since $p(A)=0$, $0=a_n+1A^n+1+p(A)$, that mean that $a_n+1A^n+1=0$, so it opposite what we think so, we only can have n elements, is this ok?







linear-algebra matrices cayley-hamilton






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edited Sep 8 at 7:45









mechanodroid

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asked Sep 8 at 6:56









Marko Škorić

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  • 2




    Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
    – max_zorn
    Sep 8 at 7:09












  • 2




    Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
    – max_zorn
    Sep 8 at 7:09







2




2




Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
– max_zorn
Sep 8 at 7:09




Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
– max_zorn
Sep 8 at 7:09










2 Answers
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An arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as $f(A)$, where $f$ is a polynomial (of any degree).



Cayley-Hamilton states that $chi(A) = 0$, where $chi$ is the characteristic polynomial.



Dividing $f$ with $chi$, we obtain unique polynomials $q,r$ such that $f(x) = chi(x)q(x) + r(x)$ and $deg r < deg chi = n$.



Plugging in $A$ we get $$f(A) = chi(A)q(A) + r(A) = r(A)$$



Therefore, an arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as a linear combination of only $I, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$.



Hence $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots = operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$, and the latter clearly has dimension $le n$.






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    If I understand what you wrote correctly, you are assuming that $0 = a_n+1A^n+1 + p(A)$ where $p$ is the same polynomial as the one in Cayley Hamilton. I don't think this follows from what you have written.



    Suppose we have the equality $A^n = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i$ from Cayley-Hamilton. Then observe
    $$A^n+1 = A^n A^1 = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i+1 = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 A^n = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i= sum_i=0^n-1b_i A^i $$



    so $A^n+1$ can be expressed as a linear combination of $I,A,dots,A^n-1$. Its not hard to see how this would work for any higher power.



    (Note on terminology though, the span is a vector space, and assuming you're working over an infinite field, the span has infinite cardinality. Its basis can have at most $n$ elements.)






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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
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      up vote
      1
      down vote



      accepted










      An arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as $f(A)$, where $f$ is a polynomial (of any degree).



      Cayley-Hamilton states that $chi(A) = 0$, where $chi$ is the characteristic polynomial.



      Dividing $f$ with $chi$, we obtain unique polynomials $q,r$ such that $f(x) = chi(x)q(x) + r(x)$ and $deg r < deg chi = n$.



      Plugging in $A$ we get $$f(A) = chi(A)q(A) + r(A) = r(A)$$



      Therefore, an arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as a linear combination of only $I, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$.



      Hence $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots = operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$, and the latter clearly has dimension $le n$.






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        up vote
        1
        down vote



        accepted










        An arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as $f(A)$, where $f$ is a polynomial (of any degree).



        Cayley-Hamilton states that $chi(A) = 0$, where $chi$ is the characteristic polynomial.



        Dividing $f$ with $chi$, we obtain unique polynomials $q,r$ such that $f(x) = chi(x)q(x) + r(x)$ and $deg r < deg chi = n$.



        Plugging in $A$ we get $$f(A) = chi(A)q(A) + r(A) = r(A)$$



        Therefore, an arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as a linear combination of only $I, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$.



        Hence $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots = operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$, and the latter clearly has dimension $le n$.






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          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted






          An arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as $f(A)$, where $f$ is a polynomial (of any degree).



          Cayley-Hamilton states that $chi(A) = 0$, where $chi$ is the characteristic polynomial.



          Dividing $f$ with $chi$, we obtain unique polynomials $q,r$ such that $f(x) = chi(x)q(x) + r(x)$ and $deg r < deg chi = n$.



          Plugging in $A$ we get $$f(A) = chi(A)q(A) + r(A) = r(A)$$



          Therefore, an arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as a linear combination of only $I, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$.



          Hence $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots = operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$, and the latter clearly has dimension $le n$.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          An arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as $f(A)$, where $f$ is a polynomial (of any degree).



          Cayley-Hamilton states that $chi(A) = 0$, where $chi$ is the characteristic polynomial.



          Dividing $f$ with $chi$, we obtain unique polynomials $q,r$ such that $f(x) = chi(x)q(x) + r(x)$ and $deg r < deg chi = n$.



          Plugging in $A$ we get $$f(A) = chi(A)q(A) + r(A) = r(A)$$



          Therefore, an arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as a linear combination of only $I, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$.



          Hence $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots = operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$, and the latter clearly has dimension $le n$.







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          answered Sep 8 at 7:42









          mechanodroid

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              0
              down vote













              If I understand what you wrote correctly, you are assuming that $0 = a_n+1A^n+1 + p(A)$ where $p$ is the same polynomial as the one in Cayley Hamilton. I don't think this follows from what you have written.



              Suppose we have the equality $A^n = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i$ from Cayley-Hamilton. Then observe
              $$A^n+1 = A^n A^1 = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i+1 = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 A^n = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i= sum_i=0^n-1b_i A^i $$



              so $A^n+1$ can be expressed as a linear combination of $I,A,dots,A^n-1$. Its not hard to see how this would work for any higher power.



              (Note on terminology though, the span is a vector space, and assuming you're working over an infinite field, the span has infinite cardinality. Its basis can have at most $n$ elements.)






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                If I understand what you wrote correctly, you are assuming that $0 = a_n+1A^n+1 + p(A)$ where $p$ is the same polynomial as the one in Cayley Hamilton. I don't think this follows from what you have written.



                Suppose we have the equality $A^n = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i$ from Cayley-Hamilton. Then observe
                $$A^n+1 = A^n A^1 = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i+1 = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 A^n = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i= sum_i=0^n-1b_i A^i $$



                so $A^n+1$ can be expressed as a linear combination of $I,A,dots,A^n-1$. Its not hard to see how this would work for any higher power.



                (Note on terminology though, the span is a vector space, and assuming you're working over an infinite field, the span has infinite cardinality. Its basis can have at most $n$ elements.)






                share|cite|improve this answer






















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                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  If I understand what you wrote correctly, you are assuming that $0 = a_n+1A^n+1 + p(A)$ where $p$ is the same polynomial as the one in Cayley Hamilton. I don't think this follows from what you have written.



                  Suppose we have the equality $A^n = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i$ from Cayley-Hamilton. Then observe
                  $$A^n+1 = A^n A^1 = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i+1 = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 A^n = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i= sum_i=0^n-1b_i A^i $$



                  so $A^n+1$ can be expressed as a linear combination of $I,A,dots,A^n-1$. Its not hard to see how this would work for any higher power.



                  (Note on terminology though, the span is a vector space, and assuming you're working over an infinite field, the span has infinite cardinality. Its basis can have at most $n$ elements.)






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  If I understand what you wrote correctly, you are assuming that $0 = a_n+1A^n+1 + p(A)$ where $p$ is the same polynomial as the one in Cayley Hamilton. I don't think this follows from what you have written.



                  Suppose we have the equality $A^n = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i$ from Cayley-Hamilton. Then observe
                  $$A^n+1 = A^n A^1 = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i+1 = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 A^n = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i= sum_i=0^n-1b_i A^i $$



                  so $A^n+1$ can be expressed as a linear combination of $I,A,dots,A^n-1$. Its not hard to see how this would work for any higher power.



                  (Note on terminology though, the span is a vector space, and assuming you're working over an infinite field, the span has infinite cardinality. Its basis can have at most $n$ elements.)







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                  answered Sep 8 at 7:29









                  Calvin Khor

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