Can the span of $L(I,A,A^2,cdots,A^k,..)$ have more than $n$ elements?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Let $Ain M_n$. Can dimension of subspace $L(I,A,A^2,ldots,A^k,ldots)$ of $M_n$ can be bigger than $n$?
Using Cayley Hamilton theorem that every matrices $A^n$ can expressed as linear combination of $(A^n-1,A^n-2,ldots,I)$ and $p(A)=0$,
if say opposite,and you say that it have more than n elements so it must exist some $A^n+1$ that you can expressed as linear combination, so that mean that we have $0=a_n+1A^n+1+a_nA^n + cdots +a_0I$
since $p(A)=0$, $0=a_n+1A^n+1+p(A)$, that mean that $a_n+1A^n+1=0$, so it opposite what we think so, we only can have n elements, is this ok?
linear-algebra matrices cayley-hamilton
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Let $Ain M_n$. Can dimension of subspace $L(I,A,A^2,ldots,A^k,ldots)$ of $M_n$ can be bigger than $n$?
Using Cayley Hamilton theorem that every matrices $A^n$ can expressed as linear combination of $(A^n-1,A^n-2,ldots,I)$ and $p(A)=0$,
if say opposite,and you say that it have more than n elements so it must exist some $A^n+1$ that you can expressed as linear combination, so that mean that we have $0=a_n+1A^n+1+a_nA^n + cdots +a_0I$
since $p(A)=0$, $0=a_n+1A^n+1+p(A)$, that mean that $a_n+1A^n+1=0$, so it opposite what we think so, we only can have n elements, is this ok?
linear-algebra matrices cayley-hamilton
2
Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
â max_zorn
Sep 8 at 7:09
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Let $Ain M_n$. Can dimension of subspace $L(I,A,A^2,ldots,A^k,ldots)$ of $M_n$ can be bigger than $n$?
Using Cayley Hamilton theorem that every matrices $A^n$ can expressed as linear combination of $(A^n-1,A^n-2,ldots,I)$ and $p(A)=0$,
if say opposite,and you say that it have more than n elements so it must exist some $A^n+1$ that you can expressed as linear combination, so that mean that we have $0=a_n+1A^n+1+a_nA^n + cdots +a_0I$
since $p(A)=0$, $0=a_n+1A^n+1+p(A)$, that mean that $a_n+1A^n+1=0$, so it opposite what we think so, we only can have n elements, is this ok?
linear-algebra matrices cayley-hamilton
Let $Ain M_n$. Can dimension of subspace $L(I,A,A^2,ldots,A^k,ldots)$ of $M_n$ can be bigger than $n$?
Using Cayley Hamilton theorem that every matrices $A^n$ can expressed as linear combination of $(A^n-1,A^n-2,ldots,I)$ and $p(A)=0$,
if say opposite,and you say that it have more than n elements so it must exist some $A^n+1$ that you can expressed as linear combination, so that mean that we have $0=a_n+1A^n+1+a_nA^n + cdots +a_0I$
since $p(A)=0$, $0=a_n+1A^n+1+p(A)$, that mean that $a_n+1A^n+1=0$, so it opposite what we think so, we only can have n elements, is this ok?
linear-algebra matrices cayley-hamilton
linear-algebra matrices cayley-hamilton
edited Sep 8 at 7:45
mechanodroid
24.6k62245
24.6k62245
asked Sep 8 at 6:56
Marko à  koriÃÂ
4008
4008
2
Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
â max_zorn
Sep 8 at 7:09
add a comment |Â
2
Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
â max_zorn
Sep 8 at 7:09
2
2
Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
â max_zorn
Sep 8 at 7:09
Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
â max_zorn
Sep 8 at 7:09
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
An arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as $f(A)$, where $f$ is a polynomial (of any degree).
Cayley-Hamilton states that $chi(A) = 0$, where $chi$ is the characteristic polynomial.
Dividing $f$ with $chi$, we obtain unique polynomials $q,r$ such that $f(x) = chi(x)q(x) + r(x)$ and $deg r < deg chi = n$.
Plugging in $A$ we get $$f(A) = chi(A)q(A) + r(A) = r(A)$$
Therefore, an arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as a linear combination of only $I, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$.
Hence $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots = operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$, and the latter clearly has dimension $le n$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
If I understand what you wrote correctly, you are assuming that $0 = a_n+1A^n+1 + p(A)$ where $p$ is the same polynomial as the one in Cayley Hamilton. I don't think this follows from what you have written.
Suppose we have the equality $A^n = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i$ from Cayley-Hamilton. Then observe
$$A^n+1 = A^n A^1 = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i+1 = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 A^n = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i= sum_i=0^n-1b_i A^i $$
so $A^n+1$ can be expressed as a linear combination of $I,A,dots,A^n-1$. Its not hard to see how this would work for any higher power.
(Note on terminology though, the span is a vector space, and assuming you're working over an infinite field, the span has infinite cardinality. Its basis can have at most $n$ elements.)
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
An arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as $f(A)$, where $f$ is a polynomial (of any degree).
Cayley-Hamilton states that $chi(A) = 0$, where $chi$ is the characteristic polynomial.
Dividing $f$ with $chi$, we obtain unique polynomials $q,r$ such that $f(x) = chi(x)q(x) + r(x)$ and $deg r < deg chi = n$.
Plugging in $A$ we get $$f(A) = chi(A)q(A) + r(A) = r(A)$$
Therefore, an arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as a linear combination of only $I, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$.
Hence $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots = operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$, and the latter clearly has dimension $le n$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
An arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as $f(A)$, where $f$ is a polynomial (of any degree).
Cayley-Hamilton states that $chi(A) = 0$, where $chi$ is the characteristic polynomial.
Dividing $f$ with $chi$, we obtain unique polynomials $q,r$ such that $f(x) = chi(x)q(x) + r(x)$ and $deg r < deg chi = n$.
Plugging in $A$ we get $$f(A) = chi(A)q(A) + r(A) = r(A)$$
Therefore, an arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as a linear combination of only $I, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$.
Hence $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots = operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$, and the latter clearly has dimension $le n$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
An arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as $f(A)$, where $f$ is a polynomial (of any degree).
Cayley-Hamilton states that $chi(A) = 0$, where $chi$ is the characteristic polynomial.
Dividing $f$ with $chi$, we obtain unique polynomials $q,r$ such that $f(x) = chi(x)q(x) + r(x)$ and $deg r < deg chi = n$.
Plugging in $A$ we get $$f(A) = chi(A)q(A) + r(A) = r(A)$$
Therefore, an arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as a linear combination of only $I, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$.
Hence $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots = operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$, and the latter clearly has dimension $le n$.
An arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as $f(A)$, where $f$ is a polynomial (of any degree).
Cayley-Hamilton states that $chi(A) = 0$, where $chi$ is the characteristic polynomial.
Dividing $f$ with $chi$, we obtain unique polynomials $q,r$ such that $f(x) = chi(x)q(x) + r(x)$ and $deg r < deg chi = n$.
Plugging in $A$ we get $$f(A) = chi(A)q(A) + r(A) = r(A)$$
Therefore, an arbitrary element of $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots$ can be written as a linear combination of only $I, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$.
Hence $operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots = operatornamespanI, A, A^2, ldots, A^n-1$, and the latter clearly has dimension $le n$.
answered Sep 8 at 7:42
mechanodroid
24.6k62245
24.6k62245
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
If I understand what you wrote correctly, you are assuming that $0 = a_n+1A^n+1 + p(A)$ where $p$ is the same polynomial as the one in Cayley Hamilton. I don't think this follows from what you have written.
Suppose we have the equality $A^n = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i$ from Cayley-Hamilton. Then observe
$$A^n+1 = A^n A^1 = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i+1 = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 A^n = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i= sum_i=0^n-1b_i A^i $$
so $A^n+1$ can be expressed as a linear combination of $I,A,dots,A^n-1$. Its not hard to see how this would work for any higher power.
(Note on terminology though, the span is a vector space, and assuming you're working over an infinite field, the span has infinite cardinality. Its basis can have at most $n$ elements.)
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
If I understand what you wrote correctly, you are assuming that $0 = a_n+1A^n+1 + p(A)$ where $p$ is the same polynomial as the one in Cayley Hamilton. I don't think this follows from what you have written.
Suppose we have the equality $A^n = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i$ from Cayley-Hamilton. Then observe
$$A^n+1 = A^n A^1 = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i+1 = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 A^n = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i= sum_i=0^n-1b_i A^i $$
so $A^n+1$ can be expressed as a linear combination of $I,A,dots,A^n-1$. Its not hard to see how this would work for any higher power.
(Note on terminology though, the span is a vector space, and assuming you're working over an infinite field, the span has infinite cardinality. Its basis can have at most $n$ elements.)
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
If I understand what you wrote correctly, you are assuming that $0 = a_n+1A^n+1 + p(A)$ where $p$ is the same polynomial as the one in Cayley Hamilton. I don't think this follows from what you have written.
Suppose we have the equality $A^n = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i$ from Cayley-Hamilton. Then observe
$$A^n+1 = A^n A^1 = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i+1 = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 A^n = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i= sum_i=0^n-1b_i A^i $$
so $A^n+1$ can be expressed as a linear combination of $I,A,dots,A^n-1$. Its not hard to see how this would work for any higher power.
(Note on terminology though, the span is a vector space, and assuming you're working over an infinite field, the span has infinite cardinality. Its basis can have at most $n$ elements.)
If I understand what you wrote correctly, you are assuming that $0 = a_n+1A^n+1 + p(A)$ where $p$ is the same polynomial as the one in Cayley Hamilton. I don't think this follows from what you have written.
Suppose we have the equality $A^n = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i$ from Cayley-Hamilton. Then observe
$$A^n+1 = A^n A^1 = sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i+1 = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 A^n = sum_i=1^n-1a_i-1A^i + a_n-1 sum_i=0^n-1 a_i A^i= sum_i=0^n-1b_i A^i $$
so $A^n+1$ can be expressed as a linear combination of $I,A,dots,A^n-1$. Its not hard to see how this would work for any higher power.
(Note on terminology though, the span is a vector space, and assuming you're working over an infinite field, the span has infinite cardinality. Its basis can have at most $n$ elements.)
answered Sep 8 at 7:29
Calvin Khor
8,85621133
8,85621133
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2909353%2fcan-the-span-of-li-a-a2-cdots-ak-have-more-than-n-elements%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
2
Can you break up your big paragraph into smaller pieces to make it more readable please?
â max_zorn
Sep 8 at 7:09