LUB (if it exists) of a complete set belongs to that set: Validity

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By LUB I mean the least upper bound of the set.
And the definition of complete set I am using is that every Cauchy sequence in that set must converge in that set.
So by these two assumptions.
I cannot seem to get a start on this. I don't even know if this is valid.










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  • Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
    – Dan
    Sep 8 at 8:19











  • If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
    – Dan
    Sep 8 at 8:25










  • I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
    – Aditya Agarwal
    Sep 8 at 9:02















up vote
0
down vote

favorite












By LUB I mean the least upper bound of the set.
And the definition of complete set I am using is that every Cauchy sequence in that set must converge in that set.
So by these two assumptions.
I cannot seem to get a start on this. I don't even know if this is valid.










share|cite|improve this question





















  • Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
    – Dan
    Sep 8 at 8:19











  • If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
    – Dan
    Sep 8 at 8:25










  • I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
    – Aditya Agarwal
    Sep 8 at 9:02













up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











By LUB I mean the least upper bound of the set.
And the definition of complete set I am using is that every Cauchy sequence in that set must converge in that set.
So by these two assumptions.
I cannot seem to get a start on this. I don't even know if this is valid.










share|cite|improve this question













By LUB I mean the least upper bound of the set.
And the definition of complete set I am using is that every Cauchy sequence in that set must converge in that set.
So by these two assumptions.
I cannot seem to get a start on this. I don't even know if this is valid.







real-analysis proof-writing real-numbers cauchy-sequences






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asked Sep 8 at 8:14









Aditya Agarwal

2,86911536




2,86911536











  • Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
    – Dan
    Sep 8 at 8:19











  • If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
    – Dan
    Sep 8 at 8:25










  • I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
    – Aditya Agarwal
    Sep 8 at 9:02

















  • Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
    – Dan
    Sep 8 at 8:19











  • If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
    – Dan
    Sep 8 at 8:25










  • I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
    – Aditya Agarwal
    Sep 8 at 9:02
















Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
– Dan
Sep 8 at 8:19





Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
– Dan
Sep 8 at 8:19













If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
– Dan
Sep 8 at 8:25




If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
– Dan
Sep 8 at 8:25












I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
– Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:02





I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
– Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:02











2 Answers
2






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Suppose that $S$ is a complete set that has a LUB $x$.



Then for every $ninmathbb N$ choose some $s_nin(x-frac1n,x]cap S$.



The set $(x-frac1n,x]cap S$ cannot be empty (if it is empty then $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $X$ contradicting that $x$ is its LUB).



Now prove that $(s_n)_n$ is a Cauchy sequence in $S$ hence must converge to some $sin S$.



Also prove that $s_n$ converges to $x$.



Then apparantly $x=sin S$.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • What is $(s_n)_n$?
    – Aditya Agarwal
    Sep 8 at 9:12










  • A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
    – drhab
    Sep 8 at 9:28










  • Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
    – Aditya Agarwal
    Sep 8 at 10:21










  • If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
    – drhab
    Sep 8 at 10:30

















up vote
0
down vote













Let S be set which is complete and Has Least upper Bound say $alpha$

Case 1: S is finite set.


Then it is easy to show that maximum element of S is LUB of that which contain in S .



Case 2: S is infinite set.

SO for $r>0$ ,$alpha-r<x<alpha$ for some $xin S$ this is true for every r>0.

This is always to true otherwise there is contradiction to lub definition (actually this is the characterisation of Lub In case of infinite set)

Now we can extract sequnce as follows :
Chose $x_nin S $ such that $alpha-frac1n<x_n<alpha$ with $x_n neq alpha$

Actually You have shown Sequnce which is actually convergent to $alpha $
This is cauchy and hence it limit belong to S

Hence we are done






share|cite|improve this answer




















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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

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    up vote
    0
    down vote













    Suppose that $S$ is a complete set that has a LUB $x$.



    Then for every $ninmathbb N$ choose some $s_nin(x-frac1n,x]cap S$.



    The set $(x-frac1n,x]cap S$ cannot be empty (if it is empty then $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $X$ contradicting that $x$ is its LUB).



    Now prove that $(s_n)_n$ is a Cauchy sequence in $S$ hence must converge to some $sin S$.



    Also prove that $s_n$ converges to $x$.



    Then apparantly $x=sin S$.






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • What is $(s_n)_n$?
      – Aditya Agarwal
      Sep 8 at 9:12










    • A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
      – drhab
      Sep 8 at 9:28










    • Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
      – Aditya Agarwal
      Sep 8 at 10:21










    • If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
      – drhab
      Sep 8 at 10:30














    up vote
    0
    down vote













    Suppose that $S$ is a complete set that has a LUB $x$.



    Then for every $ninmathbb N$ choose some $s_nin(x-frac1n,x]cap S$.



    The set $(x-frac1n,x]cap S$ cannot be empty (if it is empty then $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $X$ contradicting that $x$ is its LUB).



    Now prove that $(s_n)_n$ is a Cauchy sequence in $S$ hence must converge to some $sin S$.



    Also prove that $s_n$ converges to $x$.



    Then apparantly $x=sin S$.






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • What is $(s_n)_n$?
      – Aditya Agarwal
      Sep 8 at 9:12










    • A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
      – drhab
      Sep 8 at 9:28










    • Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
      – Aditya Agarwal
      Sep 8 at 10:21










    • If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
      – drhab
      Sep 8 at 10:30












    up vote
    0
    down vote










    up vote
    0
    down vote









    Suppose that $S$ is a complete set that has a LUB $x$.



    Then for every $ninmathbb N$ choose some $s_nin(x-frac1n,x]cap S$.



    The set $(x-frac1n,x]cap S$ cannot be empty (if it is empty then $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $X$ contradicting that $x$ is its LUB).



    Now prove that $(s_n)_n$ is a Cauchy sequence in $S$ hence must converge to some $sin S$.



    Also prove that $s_n$ converges to $x$.



    Then apparantly $x=sin S$.






    share|cite|improve this answer














    Suppose that $S$ is a complete set that has a LUB $x$.



    Then for every $ninmathbb N$ choose some $s_nin(x-frac1n,x]cap S$.



    The set $(x-frac1n,x]cap S$ cannot be empty (if it is empty then $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $X$ contradicting that $x$ is its LUB).



    Now prove that $(s_n)_n$ is a Cauchy sequence in $S$ hence must converge to some $sin S$.



    Also prove that $s_n$ converges to $x$.



    Then apparantly $x=sin S$.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Sep 8 at 10:33

























    answered Sep 8 at 8:41









    drhab

    89.3k541123




    89.3k541123











    • What is $(s_n)_n$?
      – Aditya Agarwal
      Sep 8 at 9:12










    • A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
      – drhab
      Sep 8 at 9:28










    • Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
      – Aditya Agarwal
      Sep 8 at 10:21










    • If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
      – drhab
      Sep 8 at 10:30
















    • What is $(s_n)_n$?
      – Aditya Agarwal
      Sep 8 at 9:12










    • A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
      – drhab
      Sep 8 at 9:28










    • Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
      – Aditya Agarwal
      Sep 8 at 10:21










    • If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
      – drhab
      Sep 8 at 10:30















    What is $(s_n)_n$?
    – Aditya Agarwal
    Sep 8 at 9:12




    What is $(s_n)_n$?
    – Aditya Agarwal
    Sep 8 at 9:12












    A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
    – drhab
    Sep 8 at 9:28




    A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
    – drhab
    Sep 8 at 9:28












    Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
    – Aditya Agarwal
    Sep 8 at 10:21




    Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
    – Aditya Agarwal
    Sep 8 at 10:21












    If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
    – drhab
    Sep 8 at 10:30




    If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
    – drhab
    Sep 8 at 10:30










    up vote
    0
    down vote













    Let S be set which is complete and Has Least upper Bound say $alpha$

    Case 1: S is finite set.


    Then it is easy to show that maximum element of S is LUB of that which contain in S .



    Case 2: S is infinite set.

    SO for $r>0$ ,$alpha-r<x<alpha$ for some $xin S$ this is true for every r>0.

    This is always to true otherwise there is contradiction to lub definition (actually this is the characterisation of Lub In case of infinite set)

    Now we can extract sequnce as follows :
    Chose $x_nin S $ such that $alpha-frac1n<x_n<alpha$ with $x_n neq alpha$

    Actually You have shown Sequnce which is actually convergent to $alpha $
    This is cauchy and hence it limit belong to S

    Hence we are done






    share|cite|improve this answer
























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      Let S be set which is complete and Has Least upper Bound say $alpha$

      Case 1: S is finite set.


      Then it is easy to show that maximum element of S is LUB of that which contain in S .



      Case 2: S is infinite set.

      SO for $r>0$ ,$alpha-r<x<alpha$ for some $xin S$ this is true for every r>0.

      This is always to true otherwise there is contradiction to lub definition (actually this is the characterisation of Lub In case of infinite set)

      Now we can extract sequnce as follows :
      Chose $x_nin S $ such that $alpha-frac1n<x_n<alpha$ with $x_n neq alpha$

      Actually You have shown Sequnce which is actually convergent to $alpha $
      This is cauchy and hence it limit belong to S

      Hence we are done






      share|cite|improve this answer






















        up vote
        0
        down vote










        up vote
        0
        down vote









        Let S be set which is complete and Has Least upper Bound say $alpha$

        Case 1: S is finite set.


        Then it is easy to show that maximum element of S is LUB of that which contain in S .



        Case 2: S is infinite set.

        SO for $r>0$ ,$alpha-r<x<alpha$ for some $xin S$ this is true for every r>0.

        This is always to true otherwise there is contradiction to lub definition (actually this is the characterisation of Lub In case of infinite set)

        Now we can extract sequnce as follows :
        Chose $x_nin S $ such that $alpha-frac1n<x_n<alpha$ with $x_n neq alpha$

        Actually You have shown Sequnce which is actually convergent to $alpha $
        This is cauchy and hence it limit belong to S

        Hence we are done






        share|cite|improve this answer












        Let S be set which is complete and Has Least upper Bound say $alpha$

        Case 1: S is finite set.


        Then it is easy to show that maximum element of S is LUB of that which contain in S .



        Case 2: S is infinite set.

        SO for $r>0$ ,$alpha-r<x<alpha$ for some $xin S$ this is true for every r>0.

        This is always to true otherwise there is contradiction to lub definition (actually this is the characterisation of Lub In case of infinite set)

        Now we can extract sequnce as follows :
        Chose $x_nin S $ such that $alpha-frac1n<x_n<alpha$ with $x_n neq alpha$

        Actually You have shown Sequnce which is actually convergent to $alpha $
        This is cauchy and hence it limit belong to S

        Hence we are done







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Sep 8 at 16:39









        SRJ

        963418




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