LUB (if it exists) of a complete set belongs to that set: Validity
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By LUB I mean the least upper bound of the set.
And the definition of complete set I am using is that every Cauchy sequence in that set must converge in that set.
So by these two assumptions.
I cannot seem to get a start on this. I don't even know if this is valid.
real-analysis proof-writing real-numbers cauchy-sequences
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By LUB I mean the least upper bound of the set.
And the definition of complete set I am using is that every Cauchy sequence in that set must converge in that set.
So by these two assumptions.
I cannot seem to get a start on this. I don't even know if this is valid.
real-analysis proof-writing real-numbers cauchy-sequences
Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:19
If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:25
I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:02
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up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
By LUB I mean the least upper bound of the set.
And the definition of complete set I am using is that every Cauchy sequence in that set must converge in that set.
So by these two assumptions.
I cannot seem to get a start on this. I don't even know if this is valid.
real-analysis proof-writing real-numbers cauchy-sequences
By LUB I mean the least upper bound of the set.
And the definition of complete set I am using is that every Cauchy sequence in that set must converge in that set.
So by these two assumptions.
I cannot seem to get a start on this. I don't even know if this is valid.
real-analysis proof-writing real-numbers cauchy-sequences
real-analysis proof-writing real-numbers cauchy-sequences
asked Sep 8 at 8:14
Aditya Agarwal
2,86911536
2,86911536
Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:19
If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:25
I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:02
add a comment |Â
Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:19
If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:25
I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:02
Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:19
Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:19
If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:25
If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:25
I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:02
I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:02
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
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Suppose that $S$ is a complete set that has a LUB $x$.
Then for every $ninmathbb N$ choose some $s_nin(x-frac1n,x]cap S$.
The set $(x-frac1n,x]cap S$ cannot be empty (if it is empty then $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $X$ contradicting that $x$ is its LUB).
Now prove that $(s_n)_n$ is a Cauchy sequence in $S$ hence must converge to some $sin S$.
Also prove that $s_n$ converges to $x$.
Then apparantly $x=sin S$.
What is $(s_n)_n$?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:12
A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
â drhab
Sep 8 at 9:28
Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 10:21
If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
â drhab
Sep 8 at 10:30
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Let S be set which is complete and Has Least upper Bound say $alpha$
Case 1: S is finite set.
Then it is easy to show that maximum element of S is LUB of that which contain in S .
Case 2: S is infinite set.
SO for $r>0$ ,$alpha-r<x<alpha$ for some $xin S$ this is true for every r>0.
This is always to true otherwise there is contradiction to lub definition (actually this is the characterisation of Lub In case of infinite set)
Now we can extract sequnce as follows :
Chose $x_nin S $ such that $alpha-frac1n<x_n<alpha$ with $x_n neq alpha$
Actually You have shown Sequnce which is actually convergent to $alpha $
This is cauchy and hence it limit belong to S
Hence we are done
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
Suppose that $S$ is a complete set that has a LUB $x$.
Then for every $ninmathbb N$ choose some $s_nin(x-frac1n,x]cap S$.
The set $(x-frac1n,x]cap S$ cannot be empty (if it is empty then $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $X$ contradicting that $x$ is its LUB).
Now prove that $(s_n)_n$ is a Cauchy sequence in $S$ hence must converge to some $sin S$.
Also prove that $s_n$ converges to $x$.
Then apparantly $x=sin S$.
What is $(s_n)_n$?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:12
A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
â drhab
Sep 8 at 9:28
Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 10:21
If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
â drhab
Sep 8 at 10:30
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Suppose that $S$ is a complete set that has a LUB $x$.
Then for every $ninmathbb N$ choose some $s_nin(x-frac1n,x]cap S$.
The set $(x-frac1n,x]cap S$ cannot be empty (if it is empty then $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $X$ contradicting that $x$ is its LUB).
Now prove that $(s_n)_n$ is a Cauchy sequence in $S$ hence must converge to some $sin S$.
Also prove that $s_n$ converges to $x$.
Then apparantly $x=sin S$.
What is $(s_n)_n$?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:12
A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
â drhab
Sep 8 at 9:28
Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 10:21
If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
â drhab
Sep 8 at 10:30
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Suppose that $S$ is a complete set that has a LUB $x$.
Then for every $ninmathbb N$ choose some $s_nin(x-frac1n,x]cap S$.
The set $(x-frac1n,x]cap S$ cannot be empty (if it is empty then $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $X$ contradicting that $x$ is its LUB).
Now prove that $(s_n)_n$ is a Cauchy sequence in $S$ hence must converge to some $sin S$.
Also prove that $s_n$ converges to $x$.
Then apparantly $x=sin S$.
Suppose that $S$ is a complete set that has a LUB $x$.
Then for every $ninmathbb N$ choose some $s_nin(x-frac1n,x]cap S$.
The set $(x-frac1n,x]cap S$ cannot be empty (if it is empty then $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $X$ contradicting that $x$ is its LUB).
Now prove that $(s_n)_n$ is a Cauchy sequence in $S$ hence must converge to some $sin S$.
Also prove that $s_n$ converges to $x$.
Then apparantly $x=sin S$.
edited Sep 8 at 10:33
answered Sep 8 at 8:41
drhab
89.3k541123
89.3k541123
What is $(s_n)_n$?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:12
A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
â drhab
Sep 8 at 9:28
Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 10:21
If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
â drhab
Sep 8 at 10:30
add a comment |Â
What is $(s_n)_n$?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:12
A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
â drhab
Sep 8 at 9:28
Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 10:21
If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
â drhab
Sep 8 at 10:30
What is $(s_n)_n$?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:12
What is $(s_n)_n$?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:12
A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
â drhab
Sep 8 at 9:28
A notation for the sequence $s_1,s_2,dots$
â drhab
Sep 8 at 9:28
Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 10:21
Won't the set you mentioned, be an empty set?
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 10:21
If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
â drhab
Sep 8 at 10:30
If $(x-frac1n,x)cap S=varnothing$ then $xnotin S$ implies that $x-frac12n$ is an upper bound of $S$. That however contradicts that $x$ is its LUB. So in that case we may conclude directly that $xin S$. I will add this to my answer.
â drhab
Sep 8 at 10:30
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Let S be set which is complete and Has Least upper Bound say $alpha$
Case 1: S is finite set.
Then it is easy to show that maximum element of S is LUB of that which contain in S .
Case 2: S is infinite set.
SO for $r>0$ ,$alpha-r<x<alpha$ for some $xin S$ this is true for every r>0.
This is always to true otherwise there is contradiction to lub definition (actually this is the characterisation of Lub In case of infinite set)
Now we can extract sequnce as follows :
Chose $x_nin S $ such that $alpha-frac1n<x_n<alpha$ with $x_n neq alpha$
Actually You have shown Sequnce which is actually convergent to $alpha $
This is cauchy and hence it limit belong to S
Hence we are done
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Let S be set which is complete and Has Least upper Bound say $alpha$
Case 1: S is finite set.
Then it is easy to show that maximum element of S is LUB of that which contain in S .
Case 2: S is infinite set.
SO for $r>0$ ,$alpha-r<x<alpha$ for some $xin S$ this is true for every r>0.
This is always to true otherwise there is contradiction to lub definition (actually this is the characterisation of Lub In case of infinite set)
Now we can extract sequnce as follows :
Chose $x_nin S $ such that $alpha-frac1n<x_n<alpha$ with $x_n neq alpha$
Actually You have shown Sequnce which is actually convergent to $alpha $
This is cauchy and hence it limit belong to S
Hence we are done
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Let S be set which is complete and Has Least upper Bound say $alpha$
Case 1: S is finite set.
Then it is easy to show that maximum element of S is LUB of that which contain in S .
Case 2: S is infinite set.
SO for $r>0$ ,$alpha-r<x<alpha$ for some $xin S$ this is true for every r>0.
This is always to true otherwise there is contradiction to lub definition (actually this is the characterisation of Lub In case of infinite set)
Now we can extract sequnce as follows :
Chose $x_nin S $ such that $alpha-frac1n<x_n<alpha$ with $x_n neq alpha$
Actually You have shown Sequnce which is actually convergent to $alpha $
This is cauchy and hence it limit belong to S
Hence we are done
Let S be set which is complete and Has Least upper Bound say $alpha$
Case 1: S is finite set.
Then it is easy to show that maximum element of S is LUB of that which contain in S .
Case 2: S is infinite set.
SO for $r>0$ ,$alpha-r<x<alpha$ for some $xin S$ this is true for every r>0.
This is always to true otherwise there is contradiction to lub definition (actually this is the characterisation of Lub In case of infinite set)
Now we can extract sequnce as follows :
Chose $x_nin S $ such that $alpha-frac1n<x_n<alpha$ with $x_n neq alpha$
Actually You have shown Sequnce which is actually convergent to $alpha $
This is cauchy and hence it limit belong to S
Hence we are done
answered Sep 8 at 16:39
SRJ
963418
963418
add a comment |Â
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Here is a clarifying question - If we have a set $C$ with an order relation and the completeness property you have defined in terms of Cauchy sequences, are you asking if for any $S subset C$ proper subset, $mathrmlub(S)$ exists and is in $C$?
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:19
If so, at least for the claim to be true about $mathbbR$, you will need the Archimedean property as well.
â Dan
Sep 8 at 8:25
I am talking about LUB of C itself. @Dan
â Aditya Agarwal
Sep 8 at 9:02