If $f(x)leq M$, can we say that $f^n(x)leq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]?$

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In proving that beginalign limlimits_nto infty left[int^b_af^n(x)dxright]^frac1n=Mendalign
where $M=max f(x):xin[a,b]$ and $f:[a,b]toBbbR$ is nonnegative and continuous.$



If $f(x)leq M,;forall,xin[a,b]$, I know that $(f(x))^nleq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]?$ but do we have that $f^n(x)leq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]?$



By $f^n(x)leq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]$, I mean "composition in $n$ times". So, in essence, I'm asking: Is beginalign(f(x))^n=f^n(x),;forall,xin[a,b]?endalign Thanks!










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  • If you change $M$ to be the max of $|f(x)|$ instead...
    – Arthur
    Sep 8 at 12:59










  • What is [f(x)] supposed to mean?
    – Teddan the Terran
    Sep 8 at 13:05










  • @Teddan the Terran: Just parenthesis!
    – Micheal
    Sep 8 at 13:06










  • Alright. And then $f^n(x)$ means $f circ cdots circ f$ $n$ times?
    – Teddan the Terran
    Sep 8 at 13:07







  • 1




    First of all, you want to make sure the range of $f$ is in $[a,b]$, to make sense of multiple composition.
    – edm
    Sep 8 at 13:08














up vote
-2
down vote

favorite
1












In proving that beginalign limlimits_nto infty left[int^b_af^n(x)dxright]^frac1n=Mendalign
where $M=max f(x):xin[a,b]$ and $f:[a,b]toBbbR$ is nonnegative and continuous.$



If $f(x)leq M,;forall,xin[a,b]$, I know that $(f(x))^nleq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]?$ but do we have that $f^n(x)leq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]?$



By $f^n(x)leq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]$, I mean "composition in $n$ times". So, in essence, I'm asking: Is beginalign(f(x))^n=f^n(x),;forall,xin[a,b]?endalign Thanks!










share|cite|improve this question























  • If you change $M$ to be the max of $|f(x)|$ instead...
    – Arthur
    Sep 8 at 12:59










  • What is [f(x)] supposed to mean?
    – Teddan the Terran
    Sep 8 at 13:05










  • @Teddan the Terran: Just parenthesis!
    – Micheal
    Sep 8 at 13:06










  • Alright. And then $f^n(x)$ means $f circ cdots circ f$ $n$ times?
    – Teddan the Terran
    Sep 8 at 13:07







  • 1




    First of all, you want to make sure the range of $f$ is in $[a,b]$, to make sense of multiple composition.
    – edm
    Sep 8 at 13:08












up vote
-2
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
-2
down vote

favorite
1






1





In proving that beginalign limlimits_nto infty left[int^b_af^n(x)dxright]^frac1n=Mendalign
where $M=max f(x):xin[a,b]$ and $f:[a,b]toBbbR$ is nonnegative and continuous.$



If $f(x)leq M,;forall,xin[a,b]$, I know that $(f(x))^nleq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]?$ but do we have that $f^n(x)leq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]?$



By $f^n(x)leq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]$, I mean "composition in $n$ times". So, in essence, I'm asking: Is beginalign(f(x))^n=f^n(x),;forall,xin[a,b]?endalign Thanks!










share|cite|improve this question















In proving that beginalign limlimits_nto infty left[int^b_af^n(x)dxright]^frac1n=Mendalign
where $M=max f(x):xin[a,b]$ and $f:[a,b]toBbbR$ is nonnegative and continuous.$



If $f(x)leq M,;forall,xin[a,b]$, I know that $(f(x))^nleq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]?$ but do we have that $f^n(x)leq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]?$



By $f^n(x)leq M^n,;forall,xin[a,b]$, I mean "composition in $n$ times". So, in essence, I'm asking: Is beginalign(f(x))^n=f^n(x),;forall,xin[a,b]?endalign Thanks!







calculus real-analysis integration limits analysis






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edited Sep 8 at 13:12

























asked Sep 8 at 12:55









Micheal

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  • If you change $M$ to be the max of $|f(x)|$ instead...
    – Arthur
    Sep 8 at 12:59










  • What is [f(x)] supposed to mean?
    – Teddan the Terran
    Sep 8 at 13:05










  • @Teddan the Terran: Just parenthesis!
    – Micheal
    Sep 8 at 13:06










  • Alright. And then $f^n(x)$ means $f circ cdots circ f$ $n$ times?
    – Teddan the Terran
    Sep 8 at 13:07







  • 1




    First of all, you want to make sure the range of $f$ is in $[a,b]$, to make sense of multiple composition.
    – edm
    Sep 8 at 13:08
















  • If you change $M$ to be the max of $|f(x)|$ instead...
    – Arthur
    Sep 8 at 12:59










  • What is [f(x)] supposed to mean?
    – Teddan the Terran
    Sep 8 at 13:05










  • @Teddan the Terran: Just parenthesis!
    – Micheal
    Sep 8 at 13:06










  • Alright. And then $f^n(x)$ means $f circ cdots circ f$ $n$ times?
    – Teddan the Terran
    Sep 8 at 13:07







  • 1




    First of all, you want to make sure the range of $f$ is in $[a,b]$, to make sense of multiple composition.
    – edm
    Sep 8 at 13:08















If you change $M$ to be the max of $|f(x)|$ instead...
– Arthur
Sep 8 at 12:59




If you change $M$ to be the max of $|f(x)|$ instead...
– Arthur
Sep 8 at 12:59












What is [f(x)] supposed to mean?
– Teddan the Terran
Sep 8 at 13:05




What is [f(x)] supposed to mean?
– Teddan the Terran
Sep 8 at 13:05












@Teddan the Terran: Just parenthesis!
– Micheal
Sep 8 at 13:06




@Teddan the Terran: Just parenthesis!
– Micheal
Sep 8 at 13:06












Alright. And then $f^n(x)$ means $f circ cdots circ f$ $n$ times?
– Teddan the Terran
Sep 8 at 13:07





Alright. And then $f^n(x)$ means $f circ cdots circ f$ $n$ times?
– Teddan the Terran
Sep 8 at 13:07





1




1




First of all, you want to make sure the range of $f$ is in $[a,b]$, to make sense of multiple composition.
– edm
Sep 8 at 13:08




First of all, you want to make sure the range of $f$ is in $[a,b]$, to make sense of multiple composition.
– edm
Sep 8 at 13:08










2 Answers
2






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oldest

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up vote
1
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accepted










First of all, let me point out that the conditions of $f$ is very problematic. To make sense of multiple composition of $f$, you require the range of $f$ is in $[a,b]$. But, if the interval $[a,b]$ lies completely in the negative region, say $a=-2$, $b=-1$, you cannot simultaneously have that $f$ is nonnegative.



Now, let's define an $f$ that does not meet such difficulty. Define $f(x)=0.5$ for all $xin[0,1]$. It meets all the requirements: the range lies in $[0,1]$, multiple composition is well-defined, and the function is positive and continuous.



We have $f(x)=0.5le0.5$, but $f^n(x)=0.5gt0.5^n$ for all $nge2$.



As you may notice, it is even a counterexample to what you want to prove, because $$limlimits_nto infty 0.5^frac1n=1not=0.5.$$



However, I think you may have misunderstood the theorem you want to prove. The correct formula you want to prove might be $$limlimits_nto infty left[int^b_a(f(x))^ndxright]^frac1n=maxf(x):xin[a,b].$$ This is a well-known fact about $L^p$ norm of functions. You may want to try to prove this "correct" version of the formula.






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  • Thanks a lot! I have already proved it but had misconception about that line of the proof!
    – Micheal
    Sep 8 at 13:55

















up vote
0
down vote













As edm points out, if you want to talk about $f(f(x_0))$ for $f : left[ a, b right]longrightarrow mathbbR$, you need to be sure that $f(x_0) in left[a ,b right]$.



1) If this is not the case, $f(f(x_0))$ doesn't make sense.



2) If this is the case, then since $f(x) leqslant M$ for all $x in left[ a,b right]$ this inequality holds in particular for $x = f(x_0)$, meaning that $f(f(x_0)) leqslant M$. However, we don't necessarily have $f(f(x_0)) leqslant M^2$ since if $0 < M < 1$, $M^2 < M$.



EDIT: I see that you're also asking whether $f^n (x) = (f(x))^n$ holds identically. It doesn't in general: If $f$ is a linear function, then the composition $f^n (x)$ is linear, whereas $(f(x))^n$ is a polynomial of degree $n$.






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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    1
    down vote



    accepted










    First of all, let me point out that the conditions of $f$ is very problematic. To make sense of multiple composition of $f$, you require the range of $f$ is in $[a,b]$. But, if the interval $[a,b]$ lies completely in the negative region, say $a=-2$, $b=-1$, you cannot simultaneously have that $f$ is nonnegative.



    Now, let's define an $f$ that does not meet such difficulty. Define $f(x)=0.5$ for all $xin[0,1]$. It meets all the requirements: the range lies in $[0,1]$, multiple composition is well-defined, and the function is positive and continuous.



    We have $f(x)=0.5le0.5$, but $f^n(x)=0.5gt0.5^n$ for all $nge2$.



    As you may notice, it is even a counterexample to what you want to prove, because $$limlimits_nto infty 0.5^frac1n=1not=0.5.$$



    However, I think you may have misunderstood the theorem you want to prove. The correct formula you want to prove might be $$limlimits_nto infty left[int^b_a(f(x))^ndxright]^frac1n=maxf(x):xin[a,b].$$ This is a well-known fact about $L^p$ norm of functions. You may want to try to prove this "correct" version of the formula.






    share|cite|improve this answer




















    • Thanks a lot! I have already proved it but had misconception about that line of the proof!
      – Micheal
      Sep 8 at 13:55














    up vote
    1
    down vote



    accepted










    First of all, let me point out that the conditions of $f$ is very problematic. To make sense of multiple composition of $f$, you require the range of $f$ is in $[a,b]$. But, if the interval $[a,b]$ lies completely in the negative region, say $a=-2$, $b=-1$, you cannot simultaneously have that $f$ is nonnegative.



    Now, let's define an $f$ that does not meet such difficulty. Define $f(x)=0.5$ for all $xin[0,1]$. It meets all the requirements: the range lies in $[0,1]$, multiple composition is well-defined, and the function is positive and continuous.



    We have $f(x)=0.5le0.5$, but $f^n(x)=0.5gt0.5^n$ for all $nge2$.



    As you may notice, it is even a counterexample to what you want to prove, because $$limlimits_nto infty 0.5^frac1n=1not=0.5.$$



    However, I think you may have misunderstood the theorem you want to prove. The correct formula you want to prove might be $$limlimits_nto infty left[int^b_a(f(x))^ndxright]^frac1n=maxf(x):xin[a,b].$$ This is a well-known fact about $L^p$ norm of functions. You may want to try to prove this "correct" version of the formula.






    share|cite|improve this answer




















    • Thanks a lot! I have already proved it but had misconception about that line of the proof!
      – Micheal
      Sep 8 at 13:55












    up vote
    1
    down vote



    accepted







    up vote
    1
    down vote



    accepted






    First of all, let me point out that the conditions of $f$ is very problematic. To make sense of multiple composition of $f$, you require the range of $f$ is in $[a,b]$. But, if the interval $[a,b]$ lies completely in the negative region, say $a=-2$, $b=-1$, you cannot simultaneously have that $f$ is nonnegative.



    Now, let's define an $f$ that does not meet such difficulty. Define $f(x)=0.5$ for all $xin[0,1]$. It meets all the requirements: the range lies in $[0,1]$, multiple composition is well-defined, and the function is positive and continuous.



    We have $f(x)=0.5le0.5$, but $f^n(x)=0.5gt0.5^n$ for all $nge2$.



    As you may notice, it is even a counterexample to what you want to prove, because $$limlimits_nto infty 0.5^frac1n=1not=0.5.$$



    However, I think you may have misunderstood the theorem you want to prove. The correct formula you want to prove might be $$limlimits_nto infty left[int^b_a(f(x))^ndxright]^frac1n=maxf(x):xin[a,b].$$ This is a well-known fact about $L^p$ norm of functions. You may want to try to prove this "correct" version of the formula.






    share|cite|improve this answer












    First of all, let me point out that the conditions of $f$ is very problematic. To make sense of multiple composition of $f$, you require the range of $f$ is in $[a,b]$. But, if the interval $[a,b]$ lies completely in the negative region, say $a=-2$, $b=-1$, you cannot simultaneously have that $f$ is nonnegative.



    Now, let's define an $f$ that does not meet such difficulty. Define $f(x)=0.5$ for all $xin[0,1]$. It meets all the requirements: the range lies in $[0,1]$, multiple composition is well-defined, and the function is positive and continuous.



    We have $f(x)=0.5le0.5$, but $f^n(x)=0.5gt0.5^n$ for all $nge2$.



    As you may notice, it is even a counterexample to what you want to prove, because $$limlimits_nto infty 0.5^frac1n=1not=0.5.$$



    However, I think you may have misunderstood the theorem you want to prove. The correct formula you want to prove might be $$limlimits_nto infty left[int^b_a(f(x))^ndxright]^frac1n=maxf(x):xin[a,b].$$ This is a well-known fact about $L^p$ norm of functions. You may want to try to prove this "correct" version of the formula.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Sep 8 at 13:46









    edm

    2,5991424




    2,5991424











    • Thanks a lot! I have already proved it but had misconception about that line of the proof!
      – Micheal
      Sep 8 at 13:55
















    • Thanks a lot! I have already proved it but had misconception about that line of the proof!
      – Micheal
      Sep 8 at 13:55















    Thanks a lot! I have already proved it but had misconception about that line of the proof!
    – Micheal
    Sep 8 at 13:55




    Thanks a lot! I have already proved it but had misconception about that line of the proof!
    – Micheal
    Sep 8 at 13:55










    up vote
    0
    down vote













    As edm points out, if you want to talk about $f(f(x_0))$ for $f : left[ a, b right]longrightarrow mathbbR$, you need to be sure that $f(x_0) in left[a ,b right]$.



    1) If this is not the case, $f(f(x_0))$ doesn't make sense.



    2) If this is the case, then since $f(x) leqslant M$ for all $x in left[ a,b right]$ this inequality holds in particular for $x = f(x_0)$, meaning that $f(f(x_0)) leqslant M$. However, we don't necessarily have $f(f(x_0)) leqslant M^2$ since if $0 < M < 1$, $M^2 < M$.



    EDIT: I see that you're also asking whether $f^n (x) = (f(x))^n$ holds identically. It doesn't in general: If $f$ is a linear function, then the composition $f^n (x)$ is linear, whereas $(f(x))^n$ is a polynomial of degree $n$.






    share|cite|improve this answer
























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      As edm points out, if you want to talk about $f(f(x_0))$ for $f : left[ a, b right]longrightarrow mathbbR$, you need to be sure that $f(x_0) in left[a ,b right]$.



      1) If this is not the case, $f(f(x_0))$ doesn't make sense.



      2) If this is the case, then since $f(x) leqslant M$ for all $x in left[ a,b right]$ this inequality holds in particular for $x = f(x_0)$, meaning that $f(f(x_0)) leqslant M$. However, we don't necessarily have $f(f(x_0)) leqslant M^2$ since if $0 < M < 1$, $M^2 < M$.



      EDIT: I see that you're also asking whether $f^n (x) = (f(x))^n$ holds identically. It doesn't in general: If $f$ is a linear function, then the composition $f^n (x)$ is linear, whereas $(f(x))^n$ is a polynomial of degree $n$.






      share|cite|improve this answer






















        up vote
        0
        down vote










        up vote
        0
        down vote









        As edm points out, if you want to talk about $f(f(x_0))$ for $f : left[ a, b right]longrightarrow mathbbR$, you need to be sure that $f(x_0) in left[a ,b right]$.



        1) If this is not the case, $f(f(x_0))$ doesn't make sense.



        2) If this is the case, then since $f(x) leqslant M$ for all $x in left[ a,b right]$ this inequality holds in particular for $x = f(x_0)$, meaning that $f(f(x_0)) leqslant M$. However, we don't necessarily have $f(f(x_0)) leqslant M^2$ since if $0 < M < 1$, $M^2 < M$.



        EDIT: I see that you're also asking whether $f^n (x) = (f(x))^n$ holds identically. It doesn't in general: If $f$ is a linear function, then the composition $f^n (x)$ is linear, whereas $(f(x))^n$ is a polynomial of degree $n$.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        As edm points out, if you want to talk about $f(f(x_0))$ for $f : left[ a, b right]longrightarrow mathbbR$, you need to be sure that $f(x_0) in left[a ,b right]$.



        1) If this is not the case, $f(f(x_0))$ doesn't make sense.



        2) If this is the case, then since $f(x) leqslant M$ for all $x in left[ a,b right]$ this inequality holds in particular for $x = f(x_0)$, meaning that $f(f(x_0)) leqslant M$. However, we don't necessarily have $f(f(x_0)) leqslant M^2$ since if $0 < M < 1$, $M^2 < M$.



        EDIT: I see that you're also asking whether $f^n (x) = (f(x))^n$ holds identically. It doesn't in general: If $f$ is a linear function, then the composition $f^n (x)$ is linear, whereas $(f(x))^n$ is a polynomial of degree $n$.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Sep 8 at 13:16









        Teddan the Terran

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