V.I. Arnold says Russian students can't solve this problem, but American students can — why?

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In a book of word problems by V.I Arnold, the following appears:




  1. The hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle (in a standard American examination) is 10 inches, the altitude dropped onto it is 6 inches. Find the area of the triangle.

American school students had been coping successfully with this problem for over a decade. But then Russian school students arrived from Moscow, and none of them was able to solve it as had their American peers (giving 30 square inches as the answer). Why?




Here's the book. I assume the answer is some joke at the expense of the Americans, but I don't get it. Possibly a joke about inches? Anyone?







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  • 47




    The joke is at the Americans expence (naively applying formulas without thinking). Hint: Try to compute what the other two sides of the triangle must be given this information.
    – Winther
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:46







  • 97




    Oh, I figured it had something to do with American teenage boys always lying about things that are 6 inches being 10 inches.
    – fleablood
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:51






  • 21




    @ElliotG: I think this can be spun whatever way you want -- perhaps Americans do not assume that their teacher is constantly trying to punk them.
    – Eli Rose
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:59






  • 41




    I'd quibble that a triangle with a side (hypotenuse or otherwise) of 10 and an altitude to that side 6 then if we are given such a triangle the area is 30. That such a triangle is impossible isn't my fault. We weren't asked can such a triangle exist; we were asked given such a triangle what would they area be. And it would be 30.
    – fleablood
    Dec 31 '15 at 6:03







  • 76




    Am I the only one who had to look up what an "altitude" meant in this context? I've only ever seen it referred to as the "height" of a triangle, as in the usual "area = base * height / 2" formula... is this US-specific terminology or something?
    – Thomas
    Dec 31 '15 at 11:52















up vote
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In a book of word problems by V.I Arnold, the following appears:




  1. The hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle (in a standard American examination) is 10 inches, the altitude dropped onto it is 6 inches. Find the area of the triangle.

American school students had been coping successfully with this problem for over a decade. But then Russian school students arrived from Moscow, and none of them was able to solve it as had their American peers (giving 30 square inches as the answer). Why?




Here's the book. I assume the answer is some joke at the expense of the Americans, but I don't get it. Possibly a joke about inches? Anyone?







share|cite|improve this question


















  • 47




    The joke is at the Americans expence (naively applying formulas without thinking). Hint: Try to compute what the other two sides of the triangle must be given this information.
    – Winther
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:46







  • 97




    Oh, I figured it had something to do with American teenage boys always lying about things that are 6 inches being 10 inches.
    – fleablood
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:51






  • 21




    @ElliotG: I think this can be spun whatever way you want -- perhaps Americans do not assume that their teacher is constantly trying to punk them.
    – Eli Rose
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:59






  • 41




    I'd quibble that a triangle with a side (hypotenuse or otherwise) of 10 and an altitude to that side 6 then if we are given such a triangle the area is 30. That such a triangle is impossible isn't my fault. We weren't asked can such a triangle exist; we were asked given such a triangle what would they area be. And it would be 30.
    – fleablood
    Dec 31 '15 at 6:03







  • 76




    Am I the only one who had to look up what an "altitude" meant in this context? I've only ever seen it referred to as the "height" of a triangle, as in the usual "area = base * height / 2" formula... is this US-specific terminology or something?
    – Thomas
    Dec 31 '15 at 11:52













up vote
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down vote

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up vote
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In a book of word problems by V.I Arnold, the following appears:




  1. The hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle (in a standard American examination) is 10 inches, the altitude dropped onto it is 6 inches. Find the area of the triangle.

American school students had been coping successfully with this problem for over a decade. But then Russian school students arrived from Moscow, and none of them was able to solve it as had their American peers (giving 30 square inches as the answer). Why?




Here's the book. I assume the answer is some joke at the expense of the Americans, but I don't get it. Possibly a joke about inches? Anyone?







share|cite|improve this question














In a book of word problems by V.I Arnold, the following appears:




  1. The hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle (in a standard American examination) is 10 inches, the altitude dropped onto it is 6 inches. Find the area of the triangle.

American school students had been coping successfully with this problem for over a decade. But then Russian school students arrived from Moscow, and none of them was able to solve it as had their American peers (giving 30 square inches as the answer). Why?




Here's the book. I assume the answer is some joke at the expense of the Americans, but I don't get it. Possibly a joke about inches? Anyone?









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edited Dec 31 '15 at 8:42









Martin Sleziak

43.6k6113259




43.6k6113259










asked Dec 31 '15 at 5:41









Eli Rose

5,26831229




5,26831229







  • 47




    The joke is at the Americans expence (naively applying formulas without thinking). Hint: Try to compute what the other two sides of the triangle must be given this information.
    – Winther
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:46







  • 97




    Oh, I figured it had something to do with American teenage boys always lying about things that are 6 inches being 10 inches.
    – fleablood
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:51






  • 21




    @ElliotG: I think this can be spun whatever way you want -- perhaps Americans do not assume that their teacher is constantly trying to punk them.
    – Eli Rose
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:59






  • 41




    I'd quibble that a triangle with a side (hypotenuse or otherwise) of 10 and an altitude to that side 6 then if we are given such a triangle the area is 30. That such a triangle is impossible isn't my fault. We weren't asked can such a triangle exist; we were asked given such a triangle what would they area be. And it would be 30.
    – fleablood
    Dec 31 '15 at 6:03







  • 76




    Am I the only one who had to look up what an "altitude" meant in this context? I've only ever seen it referred to as the "height" of a triangle, as in the usual "area = base * height / 2" formula... is this US-specific terminology or something?
    – Thomas
    Dec 31 '15 at 11:52













  • 47




    The joke is at the Americans expence (naively applying formulas without thinking). Hint: Try to compute what the other two sides of the triangle must be given this information.
    – Winther
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:46







  • 97




    Oh, I figured it had something to do with American teenage boys always lying about things that are 6 inches being 10 inches.
    – fleablood
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:51






  • 21




    @ElliotG: I think this can be spun whatever way you want -- perhaps Americans do not assume that their teacher is constantly trying to punk them.
    – Eli Rose
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:59






  • 41




    I'd quibble that a triangle with a side (hypotenuse or otherwise) of 10 and an altitude to that side 6 then if we are given such a triangle the area is 30. That such a triangle is impossible isn't my fault. We weren't asked can such a triangle exist; we were asked given such a triangle what would they area be. And it would be 30.
    – fleablood
    Dec 31 '15 at 6:03







  • 76




    Am I the only one who had to look up what an "altitude" meant in this context? I've only ever seen it referred to as the "height" of a triangle, as in the usual "area = base * height / 2" formula... is this US-specific terminology or something?
    – Thomas
    Dec 31 '15 at 11:52








47




47




The joke is at the Americans expence (naively applying formulas without thinking). Hint: Try to compute what the other two sides of the triangle must be given this information.
– Winther
Dec 31 '15 at 5:46





The joke is at the Americans expence (naively applying formulas without thinking). Hint: Try to compute what the other two sides of the triangle must be given this information.
– Winther
Dec 31 '15 at 5:46





97




97




Oh, I figured it had something to do with American teenage boys always lying about things that are 6 inches being 10 inches.
– fleablood
Dec 31 '15 at 5:51




Oh, I figured it had something to do with American teenage boys always lying about things that are 6 inches being 10 inches.
– fleablood
Dec 31 '15 at 5:51




21




21




@ElliotG: I think this can be spun whatever way you want -- perhaps Americans do not assume that their teacher is constantly trying to punk them.
– Eli Rose
Dec 31 '15 at 5:59




@ElliotG: I think this can be spun whatever way you want -- perhaps Americans do not assume that their teacher is constantly trying to punk them.
– Eli Rose
Dec 31 '15 at 5:59




41




41




I'd quibble that a triangle with a side (hypotenuse or otherwise) of 10 and an altitude to that side 6 then if we are given such a triangle the area is 30. That such a triangle is impossible isn't my fault. We weren't asked can such a triangle exist; we were asked given such a triangle what would they area be. And it would be 30.
– fleablood
Dec 31 '15 at 6:03





I'd quibble that a triangle with a side (hypotenuse or otherwise) of 10 and an altitude to that side 6 then if we are given such a triangle the area is 30. That such a triangle is impossible isn't my fault. We weren't asked can such a triangle exist; we were asked given such a triangle what would they area be. And it would be 30.
– fleablood
Dec 31 '15 at 6:03





76




76




Am I the only one who had to look up what an "altitude" meant in this context? I've only ever seen it referred to as the "height" of a triangle, as in the usual "area = base * height / 2" formula... is this US-specific terminology or something?
– Thomas
Dec 31 '15 at 11:52





Am I the only one who had to look up what an "altitude" meant in this context? I've only ever seen it referred to as the "height" of a triangle, as in the usual "area = base * height / 2" formula... is this US-specific terminology or something?
– Thomas
Dec 31 '15 at 11:52











8 Answers
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There is no such right triangle. The maximum possible altitude is half the hypotenuse (inscribe the triangle into a circle to see this), which here is $5$ inches. You would only get $30$ square inches if you tried to compute the area without checking whether the triangle actually exists.






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  • 8




    Ah. Yep, he loves that kind of thing. Thanks for telling me how to see the maximum possible altitude thing, I didn't know that.
    – Eli Rose
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:55







  • 9




    What about non euclidean geometry (I may be overanalyzing, but overanalyzing is fun)?
    – PyRulez
    Dec 31 '15 at 20:56






  • 12




    @Peter: one of the Americans and the Russians are mindlessly applying formulas and getting $30$ square inches, while the other is checking whether the triangle exists and getting confused. But the way the joke is written I can't tell which is which.
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    Jan 1 '16 at 21:32






  • 6




    @PeterFranek (and QiaochuYuan): To clarify the original English: firstly, in “But then Russian school students arrived from Moscow, and none of them was able to solve it” the phrase “none of them” refers to “Russian school students”, so it means that “none of the Russian students was able to solve it”. Secondly, “as had their American peers” means “as the American students had been able to solve it”, as the previous sentence said. (“Peers” = “equals”; “successfully” is ironic.) Thus the Americans were mindless while the Russians were checking whether the triangle existed.
    – PJTraill
    Jan 4 '16 at 20:48







  • 22




    Even through Arnold probably meant to denounce the calculation as "mindless", I don't think that is a fair characterization. Real life is full of problems where you have an abundance of data about a situation already and need to figure out the simplest way to read out some missing information from them, identifying the subset of the data you need for finding what you seek. It is unproductive and wasteful to insist on approaching all such situations by verifying from first principles that the givens are internally consistent before you even start to consider the actual problem.
    – Henning Makholm
    Jan 5 '16 at 0:38

















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There are many ways to prove that such triangle does not exist. I am using a different approach.



enter image description here



Suppose that the said right angled triangle can be formed. Then, we are interested in where should the foot of the said altitude (CD) be? [That is, how far is D (on AB) from A (or from B)?]



We assume that D is $alpha$ and $beta$ units from A and B respectively.



Clearly, we have $alpha + beta = 10$ …… (1)



Also, by a fact on right angled triangles, we have $alpha beta= 6^2$ ……… (2)




EDIT : That fact is "Power of a point".




To find $alpha$ and $beta$ is equivalent to solving the quadratic equation $x^2 – 10x + 36 = 0$.



Since the discriminant $(= [-10]^2 - 4 times 36)$ is negative , we can conclude that such roots ($alpha$ and $beta$) are not real.






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  • 4




    how did you generate such a nice diagram?
    – Fattie
    Dec 31 '15 at 15:17






  • 9




    @JoeBlow Using Geogebra. Image is then sent to WORD via the clipboard. After re-sizing, the adjusted image is then sent to PC Paintbrush for the final touch. It (*.png) is then uploaded.
    – Mick
    Dec 31 '15 at 18:05






  • 4




    i am really confused, it is clear thta $alpha+beta=10$ but how did yyou find $alpha beta=6^2=36$ i mean what geometry did you used to get eq(2)?
    – Bhaskara-III
    Dec 31 '15 at 18:12







  • 1




    @Bhaskara-III Any right-angled triangle with an altitude so formed is being cut into a total of 3 triangles. These 3 triangles are similar to each other. Setup the corresponding ratios to find out the said relation.
    – Mick
    Dec 31 '15 at 18:18






  • 2




    Picture by Michael Chirico clearly shows that such a right triangle not exits while your picture is showing that such a triangle is constructed. it is also a contradiction between these two pictures here.
    – Bhaskara-III
    Jan 1 '16 at 16:46

















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enter image description here



The red line represents all possible third vertices for triangles with base 10 and height 6;



The blue curve represents all possible third vertices for right triangles with hypotenuse 10.



The two sets have null intersection.



(in fact, the maximum possible third angle 6 units away is $arccos(frac1161)approx$ 79.6°)



(and yes, technically we should include the corresponding points below the segment as well)






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  • 2




    I think your answer (along with all other answers, with the exception of the one by @AlanCampbell) has badly misinterpreted the problem. The problem statement says that the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse" -- not the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle -- is 6 inches. Thus, the triangle has sides 6, 8, and 10 inches -- there's no problem at all with such a triangle existing...
    – Mico
    Jan 4 '16 at 6:15






  • 3




    @Mico though I agree it's apparent the author should have been more careful with verbiage, I disagree with you for hair-splitting reasons. the problem states "the altitude"; in the 3-4-5 case it becomes immediately ambiguous as there are in fact three altitudes with an end on the hypotenuse. thinking this way, there is no way the author could get away with using the definite article. the only way we can take the problem as given is to deduce the author in fact meant the altitude corresponding to the right angle.
    – MichaelChirico
    Jan 4 '16 at 6:23






  • 4




    @Mico: what do you think the 'the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse"' is intended to mean? As far as I am concerned it is the exact same thing as 'the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle.' In any triangle there are three altitudes. Each can be specified by either the side on which they are dropped or by the vertex from which the are dropped (or still differently).
    – quid♦
    Jan 4 '16 at 20:03










  • I'll add that this could well be a quibble that is simply something lost in translation (I take it the original quote was in Russian?)... we need a native Russian speaker to comment on whether, in the original Russian, this ambiguity existed in the first place. Until the ambiguity is confirmed in the original Russian, this is simply a poor translation.
    – MichaelChirico
    Jan 4 '16 at 20:13










  • @MichaelChirico you're too kind; I followed exactly the same train of thought as you, except I attributed the odd grammar to either a poor translation or a non-native speaker doing the best they could. This subconscious hypothesis was reinforced by the odd syntax/ambiguity in the "as had their Russican peers" statement.
    – pjz
    Jan 4 '16 at 21:17


















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By mistake, one can fairly easily calculate the area of given right triangle as $frac12(10)(6)=30$ but this is incorrect. Why? Perhaps, this is the intuition behind the question that one should first check the existence of such a right triangle with given data before calculating area.



A right triangle with hypotenuse $10$ & an altitude of $6$ drawn to it doesn't exist because the maximum possible length of altitude drawn to the hypotenuse is $5$ i.e. half the length of hypotenuse. Here is an analytic proof to check existence of such a right triangle.




Statement: The maximum length of altitude, drawn from right angled vertex to the hypotenuse of length $a$ in a right triangle, is $a/2$ i.e. half the length of hypotenuse.




Proof: Let $x$ & $y$ be the legs (of variable length) of the right triangle having hypotenuse $a$ (known value) then using Pythagorean theorem, one should have $$x^2+y^2=10^2$$ $$y^2=a^2-x^2tag 1$$
Now, the length of altitude say $p$ drawn to the hypotenuse in right triangle is given as $$=colorbluefrac(textleg_1)times (textleg_2)(texthypotenuse)=fracxya$$ $$implies p=fracxya$$$$iff a^2p^2=x^2y^2tag 2$$
let $a^2p^2=P$ (some other variable ), now setting value of $y^2$ from (1), $$P=x^2(a^2-x^2)=a^2x^2-x^4$$ $$fracdPdx=2a^2x-4x^3$$
$$fracd^2Pdx^2=2a^2-12x^2tag 3$$
For maxima or minima, setting $fracdPdx=0$, $$2a^2x-4x^3=0implies x=0,fracasqrt 2, -fracasqrt 2$$, But $x>0$, hence $x=fracasqrt 2$. Now, setting this value of $x$ in (3),
$$fracd^2Pdx^2=2a^2-12left(fracasqrt 2right)^2=-4a^2<0$$ hence, $P$ i.e. $a^2p^2$ is maximum at $x=fracasqrt 2$ hence, from (1), the corresponding value of $y$, $$y=sqrta^2-fraca^22=fracasqrt 2$$



hence, the maximum possible length of altitude drawn (from right angled vertex ) to the hypotenuse, $$colorredp=fracxya=fracfracasqrt 2fracasqrt 2a=colorredfraca2$$
So if the length of altitude $p$ is greater than $fraca2$ (half the length of hypotenuse) then such a right triangle doesn't exist.






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  • 1




    "A right triangle with hypotenuse 100 & an altitude of 6" I guess there's a typo and should say 10. Great explanation though.
    – Masclins
    Dec 31 '15 at 7:50






  • 5




    An easier proof would be to draw a Thales' circle around the hypotenuse and note that it has no point 6 inches away from the hypotenuse.
    – John Dvorak
    Dec 31 '15 at 10:20






  • 6




    An easier proof would be to note that $a = sqrtx^2+y^2$ and height/hypotenuse $= fracxyx^2+y^2 le frac12 $ by AM GM inequality.
    – Ishan Banerjee
    Dec 31 '15 at 12:23






  • 6




    Calculus is a bit overkill for such a simple proof, see @Mick answer
    – mattecapu
    Dec 31 '15 at 13:53






  • 3




    Calculus is used just to show the result analytically.
    – Harish Chandra Rajpoot
    Jan 1 '16 at 19:33


















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Interesting - I had forgotten what an altitude was. Wikipedia says:




In geometry, an altitude of a triangle is a line segment through a vertex and perpendicular to (i.e. forming a right angle with) a line containing the base (the opposite side of the triangle). This line containing the opposite side is called the extended base of the altitude.




Who said the hypotenuse was the base? Why can't the altitude be equal to one side of the triangle?



This is a 3-4-5 right angled triangle. Or, to be precise: a 6-8-10 triangle. Hypotenuse is 10 inches, "altitude" (or height) is 6 inches, so the base is 8 inches.



Area is: 1/2 * (6) * (8) = 24 square inches.



If you insist on defining altitude as the distance from right-angled vertex to the hypotenuse, you get the problems others have already discussed.



Edit: An altitude is at right-angle to a side, and connects a side to a vertex. In this case we have an (unspecified) base, an altitude of 6 inches, and a 10 inch hypotenuse.



If the base is horizontal, and the altitude "drops" from the end, making a right-angle, then it contacts the hypotenuse line at the very end. The right-angle required of an altitude is formed at the base end, not the hypotenuse end.






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  • 5




    I'm with Alan in that: "I had no clue that 'altitude' is apparently used in such a well-agreed way, indeed, I rather disagree that it is such a well-agreed term". However Alan, I'd point out that it is indeed meant to be a joke. The joke only "makes sense" if one interprets it in the obvious way. (One could say, it's not for example an engineering description where we'd all assert "don't use such vague terminology".) Also if I'm not mistaken it comes from an earlier historical period (and indeed from Russia?) so it's reasonable to have to tease-out that meaning, I think.
    – Fattie
    Dec 31 '15 at 15:23







  • 28




    The question doesn't just mention "an (or the) altitude", it mentions "the hypotenuse ... and the altitude dropped onto it". There is only one altitude dropped onto the hypotenuse, and that is the one from the right-angle.
    – IanF1
    Dec 31 '15 at 15:55






  • 7




    The formulation says “The altitude dropped onto it” (i.e. the hypotenuse) “ is”.
    – PJTraill
    Dec 31 '15 at 16:31






  • 13




    @Alan: every triangle has three altitudes, one perpendicular to each side. For a right triangle, the two legs are each other's altitudes, but the problem clearly refers to the third altitude, the one dropped onto (and hence perpendicular to) the hypotenuse, which is neither of the legs. This is completely standard terminology as far as I know.
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    Dec 31 '15 at 19:19






  • 10




    This was my interpretation, too. I had never heard the phrase 'altitude dropped onto' the hypotenuse of a right triangle and figured this was a side and it was a 6-8-10 right triangle with area 24. I certainly believe Qiaochu that this is standard terminology, but I was an American student and it's not something I ever remember hearing.
    – Adam Acosta
    Jan 1 '16 at 0:49

















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Non-Euclidian triangle on a sphere



Here a non-Euclidian answer to the question



The depicted sphere has a circumference of length 40, and thus a radius of $frac20pi$. The points $A$ and $B$ are located on the equator, and $C$ is located on a pole.



Now $triangle ABC$ is a right triangle (it even has two right angles), since all meridians intersect the equator perpendicularly.



Define $AC$ to be the hypothenusa, with length $10$. The height, being the shortest distance from $B$ to its hypothenusa $AC$ is then indeed $6$.
As $triangle ABC$ covers $frac640$ of the upper hemisphere, its area is:



$$A_texttriangle = frac640timesfrac12times 4pi r^2 = frac120pi$$



$blacksquare$






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  • 5




    This has got to be the correct answer. Arnold's finest joke.
    – PatrickT
    Aug 27 '16 at 7:21






  • 1




    i have edited a little thanks
    – Bhaskara-III
    Sep 21 '16 at 10:33






  • 1




    It is one of several different possible non-Euclidian answers.
    – Klaws
    Jan 26 at 16:07

















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Let $ABC$ be a right angled triangle with hypotenuse $AC=10$, base $BA=y$(say) and perpendicular $CB=x$ (say). Drop perpendicular $BD=6$ (if it exists) on $AB$. It is easy to see that $Delta ABCsim Delta ADB$ then using ratios,



$fraczy=frac6x=fracy10$



From last two ratios, $xy=60$



Also $x^2+y^2=10^2$ as $ABC$ is right angled at $B$.



This gives $x^2+(60/x)^2=100$ or $x^4-100x^2+3600=0$ which has no real roots.






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    This is from a paper full of trick questions, so likely, is criticizing the American students. The crux of the problem is whether the discrepancy is noticed, and how it is handled.



    In middle school, kids are taught a simplified formula,
    triangle area = 1/2 * b * h, or area equals base times height.



    In Geometry, the full version is taught, A = 1/2 * b * a ==> area = 1/2 * base (any side of triangle) * altitude (line perpendicular to base and going to opposite vertex). The definitions of base and altitude are critical and repeatedly taught. They have been standard since the time of Euclid, but teaching the simplified version causes confusion.



    Using this formula, the 30 inches square area would be true for a triangle with hypotenuse of 10 and corresponding altitude of 6.



    Kids are taught that the sides of a right triangle with hypotenuse length 10 and a side of 6 is a Pythagorian Triple, 6:8:10. For this 6:8:10 triangle, 6 and 8 are perpendicular and thus altitudes of each other, the area = 1/2 * 6 * 8 = 24. The altitude for the hypotenuse can be found by area = 24 = 1/2 * 10 * altitude, and altitude = 4.8 inches.



    Thus, using simple tools taught to the students, the "altitude 6" triangle cannot be a right triangle, since the right triangle with side 6 and hypotenuse 10 has a side of 6, not the altitude to the hypotenuse. Expecting complicated proofs from secondary students is unreasonable, but applying the Pythagorean Theorem and area formulae are standard.



    The typical student probably sees the 6 and 10 as parts of a Pythagorean Triple and "knows" it is a right triangle, then finds the obvious area without further thought. Thus, answering the question as 30 could imply sloppy work or lack of knowledge or understanding.



    Alternately, it could be that the American students saw the discrepancy, and made a judgement call on how to answer a test question, assuming a typographical error.



    PS, Yuan's inscribing the triangle in a circle to determine the maximum possible altitude to the hypotenuse is simple, brilliant, and uses concepts taught in Geometry!






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    • 3




      It would be better to not use abbreviations so that your answer is clearer. Also MathJax.
      – 6005
      Dec 31 '15 at 6:55







    • 11




      There are many right triangles with hypotenuse $10$ but the legs not $6$, $8$.
      – user236182
      Dec 31 '15 at 8:57










    • @user but none of them have integer-sized legs
      – John Dvorak
      Dec 31 '15 at 12:01






    • 6




      @JanDvorak the question doesn't mention integer-sized legs.
      – IanF1
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:56










    • @ian indeed, but integer-sized legs are what most students expect. Not valid reasoning, but some students might have followed it anyways.
      – John Dvorak
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:59









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    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    228
    down vote



    accepted










    There is no such right triangle. The maximum possible altitude is half the hypotenuse (inscribe the triangle into a circle to see this), which here is $5$ inches. You would only get $30$ square inches if you tried to compute the area without checking whether the triangle actually exists.






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 8




      Ah. Yep, he loves that kind of thing. Thanks for telling me how to see the maximum possible altitude thing, I didn't know that.
      – Eli Rose
      Dec 31 '15 at 5:55







    • 9




      What about non euclidean geometry (I may be overanalyzing, but overanalyzing is fun)?
      – PyRulez
      Dec 31 '15 at 20:56






    • 12




      @Peter: one of the Americans and the Russians are mindlessly applying formulas and getting $30$ square inches, while the other is checking whether the triangle exists and getting confused. But the way the joke is written I can't tell which is which.
      – Qiaochu Yuan
      Jan 1 '16 at 21:32






    • 6




      @PeterFranek (and QiaochuYuan): To clarify the original English: firstly, in “But then Russian school students arrived from Moscow, and none of them was able to solve it” the phrase “none of them” refers to “Russian school students”, so it means that “none of the Russian students was able to solve it”. Secondly, “as had their American peers” means “as the American students had been able to solve it”, as the previous sentence said. (“Peers” = “equals”; “successfully” is ironic.) Thus the Americans were mindless while the Russians were checking whether the triangle existed.
      – PJTraill
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:48







    • 22




      Even through Arnold probably meant to denounce the calculation as "mindless", I don't think that is a fair characterization. Real life is full of problems where you have an abundance of data about a situation already and need to figure out the simplest way to read out some missing information from them, identifying the subset of the data you need for finding what you seek. It is unproductive and wasteful to insist on approaching all such situations by verifying from first principles that the givens are internally consistent before you even start to consider the actual problem.
      – Henning Makholm
      Jan 5 '16 at 0:38














    up vote
    228
    down vote



    accepted










    There is no such right triangle. The maximum possible altitude is half the hypotenuse (inscribe the triangle into a circle to see this), which here is $5$ inches. You would only get $30$ square inches if you tried to compute the area without checking whether the triangle actually exists.






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 8




      Ah. Yep, he loves that kind of thing. Thanks for telling me how to see the maximum possible altitude thing, I didn't know that.
      – Eli Rose
      Dec 31 '15 at 5:55







    • 9




      What about non euclidean geometry (I may be overanalyzing, but overanalyzing is fun)?
      – PyRulez
      Dec 31 '15 at 20:56






    • 12




      @Peter: one of the Americans and the Russians are mindlessly applying formulas and getting $30$ square inches, while the other is checking whether the triangle exists and getting confused. But the way the joke is written I can't tell which is which.
      – Qiaochu Yuan
      Jan 1 '16 at 21:32






    • 6




      @PeterFranek (and QiaochuYuan): To clarify the original English: firstly, in “But then Russian school students arrived from Moscow, and none of them was able to solve it” the phrase “none of them” refers to “Russian school students”, so it means that “none of the Russian students was able to solve it”. Secondly, “as had their American peers” means “as the American students had been able to solve it”, as the previous sentence said. (“Peers” = “equals”; “successfully” is ironic.) Thus the Americans were mindless while the Russians were checking whether the triangle existed.
      – PJTraill
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:48







    • 22




      Even through Arnold probably meant to denounce the calculation as "mindless", I don't think that is a fair characterization. Real life is full of problems where you have an abundance of data about a situation already and need to figure out the simplest way to read out some missing information from them, identifying the subset of the data you need for finding what you seek. It is unproductive and wasteful to insist on approaching all such situations by verifying from first principles that the givens are internally consistent before you even start to consider the actual problem.
      – Henning Makholm
      Jan 5 '16 at 0:38












    up vote
    228
    down vote



    accepted







    up vote
    228
    down vote



    accepted






    There is no such right triangle. The maximum possible altitude is half the hypotenuse (inscribe the triangle into a circle to see this), which here is $5$ inches. You would only get $30$ square inches if you tried to compute the area without checking whether the triangle actually exists.






    share|cite|improve this answer














    There is no such right triangle. The maximum possible altitude is half the hypotenuse (inscribe the triangle into a circle to see this), which here is $5$ inches. You would only get $30$ square inches if you tried to compute the area without checking whether the triangle actually exists.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Dec 31 '15 at 6:17

























    answered Dec 31 '15 at 5:48









    Qiaochu Yuan

    269k32564899




    269k32564899







    • 8




      Ah. Yep, he loves that kind of thing. Thanks for telling me how to see the maximum possible altitude thing, I didn't know that.
      – Eli Rose
      Dec 31 '15 at 5:55







    • 9




      What about non euclidean geometry (I may be overanalyzing, but overanalyzing is fun)?
      – PyRulez
      Dec 31 '15 at 20:56






    • 12




      @Peter: one of the Americans and the Russians are mindlessly applying formulas and getting $30$ square inches, while the other is checking whether the triangle exists and getting confused. But the way the joke is written I can't tell which is which.
      – Qiaochu Yuan
      Jan 1 '16 at 21:32






    • 6




      @PeterFranek (and QiaochuYuan): To clarify the original English: firstly, in “But then Russian school students arrived from Moscow, and none of them was able to solve it” the phrase “none of them” refers to “Russian school students”, so it means that “none of the Russian students was able to solve it”. Secondly, “as had their American peers” means “as the American students had been able to solve it”, as the previous sentence said. (“Peers” = “equals”; “successfully” is ironic.) Thus the Americans were mindless while the Russians were checking whether the triangle existed.
      – PJTraill
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:48







    • 22




      Even through Arnold probably meant to denounce the calculation as "mindless", I don't think that is a fair characterization. Real life is full of problems where you have an abundance of data about a situation already and need to figure out the simplest way to read out some missing information from them, identifying the subset of the data you need for finding what you seek. It is unproductive and wasteful to insist on approaching all such situations by verifying from first principles that the givens are internally consistent before you even start to consider the actual problem.
      – Henning Makholm
      Jan 5 '16 at 0:38












    • 8




      Ah. Yep, he loves that kind of thing. Thanks for telling me how to see the maximum possible altitude thing, I didn't know that.
      – Eli Rose
      Dec 31 '15 at 5:55







    • 9




      What about non euclidean geometry (I may be overanalyzing, but overanalyzing is fun)?
      – PyRulez
      Dec 31 '15 at 20:56






    • 12




      @Peter: one of the Americans and the Russians are mindlessly applying formulas and getting $30$ square inches, while the other is checking whether the triangle exists and getting confused. But the way the joke is written I can't tell which is which.
      – Qiaochu Yuan
      Jan 1 '16 at 21:32






    • 6




      @PeterFranek (and QiaochuYuan): To clarify the original English: firstly, in “But then Russian school students arrived from Moscow, and none of them was able to solve it” the phrase “none of them” refers to “Russian school students”, so it means that “none of the Russian students was able to solve it”. Secondly, “as had their American peers” means “as the American students had been able to solve it”, as the previous sentence said. (“Peers” = “equals”; “successfully” is ironic.) Thus the Americans were mindless while the Russians were checking whether the triangle existed.
      – PJTraill
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:48







    • 22




      Even through Arnold probably meant to denounce the calculation as "mindless", I don't think that is a fair characterization. Real life is full of problems where you have an abundance of data about a situation already and need to figure out the simplest way to read out some missing information from them, identifying the subset of the data you need for finding what you seek. It is unproductive and wasteful to insist on approaching all such situations by verifying from first principles that the givens are internally consistent before you even start to consider the actual problem.
      – Henning Makholm
      Jan 5 '16 at 0:38







    8




    8




    Ah. Yep, he loves that kind of thing. Thanks for telling me how to see the maximum possible altitude thing, I didn't know that.
    – Eli Rose
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:55





    Ah. Yep, he loves that kind of thing. Thanks for telling me how to see the maximum possible altitude thing, I didn't know that.
    – Eli Rose
    Dec 31 '15 at 5:55





    9




    9




    What about non euclidean geometry (I may be overanalyzing, but overanalyzing is fun)?
    – PyRulez
    Dec 31 '15 at 20:56




    What about non euclidean geometry (I may be overanalyzing, but overanalyzing is fun)?
    – PyRulez
    Dec 31 '15 at 20:56




    12




    12




    @Peter: one of the Americans and the Russians are mindlessly applying formulas and getting $30$ square inches, while the other is checking whether the triangle exists and getting confused. But the way the joke is written I can't tell which is which.
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    Jan 1 '16 at 21:32




    @Peter: one of the Americans and the Russians are mindlessly applying formulas and getting $30$ square inches, while the other is checking whether the triangle exists and getting confused. But the way the joke is written I can't tell which is which.
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    Jan 1 '16 at 21:32




    6




    6




    @PeterFranek (and QiaochuYuan): To clarify the original English: firstly, in “But then Russian school students arrived from Moscow, and none of them was able to solve it” the phrase “none of them” refers to “Russian school students”, so it means that “none of the Russian students was able to solve it”. Secondly, “as had their American peers” means “as the American students had been able to solve it”, as the previous sentence said. (“Peers” = “equals”; “successfully” is ironic.) Thus the Americans were mindless while the Russians were checking whether the triangle existed.
    – PJTraill
    Jan 4 '16 at 20:48





    @PeterFranek (and QiaochuYuan): To clarify the original English: firstly, in “But then Russian school students arrived from Moscow, and none of them was able to solve it” the phrase “none of them” refers to “Russian school students”, so it means that “none of the Russian students was able to solve it”. Secondly, “as had their American peers” means “as the American students had been able to solve it”, as the previous sentence said. (“Peers” = “equals”; “successfully” is ironic.) Thus the Americans were mindless while the Russians were checking whether the triangle existed.
    – PJTraill
    Jan 4 '16 at 20:48





    22




    22




    Even through Arnold probably meant to denounce the calculation as "mindless", I don't think that is a fair characterization. Real life is full of problems where you have an abundance of data about a situation already and need to figure out the simplest way to read out some missing information from them, identifying the subset of the data you need for finding what you seek. It is unproductive and wasteful to insist on approaching all such situations by verifying from first principles that the givens are internally consistent before you even start to consider the actual problem.
    – Henning Makholm
    Jan 5 '16 at 0:38




    Even through Arnold probably meant to denounce the calculation as "mindless", I don't think that is a fair characterization. Real life is full of problems where you have an abundance of data about a situation already and need to figure out the simplest way to read out some missing information from them, identifying the subset of the data you need for finding what you seek. It is unproductive and wasteful to insist on approaching all such situations by verifying from first principles that the givens are internally consistent before you even start to consider the actual problem.
    – Henning Makholm
    Jan 5 '16 at 0:38










    up vote
    95
    down vote













    There are many ways to prove that such triangle does not exist. I am using a different approach.



    enter image description here



    Suppose that the said right angled triangle can be formed. Then, we are interested in where should the foot of the said altitude (CD) be? [That is, how far is D (on AB) from A (or from B)?]



    We assume that D is $alpha$ and $beta$ units from A and B respectively.



    Clearly, we have $alpha + beta = 10$ …… (1)



    Also, by a fact on right angled triangles, we have $alpha beta= 6^2$ ……… (2)




    EDIT : That fact is "Power of a point".




    To find $alpha$ and $beta$ is equivalent to solving the quadratic equation $x^2 – 10x + 36 = 0$.



    Since the discriminant $(= [-10]^2 - 4 times 36)$ is negative , we can conclude that such roots ($alpha$ and $beta$) are not real.






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 4




      how did you generate such a nice diagram?
      – Fattie
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:17






    • 9




      @JoeBlow Using Geogebra. Image is then sent to WORD via the clipboard. After re-sizing, the adjusted image is then sent to PC Paintbrush for the final touch. It (*.png) is then uploaded.
      – Mick
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:05






    • 4




      i am really confused, it is clear thta $alpha+beta=10$ but how did yyou find $alpha beta=6^2=36$ i mean what geometry did you used to get eq(2)?
      – Bhaskara-III
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:12







    • 1




      @Bhaskara-III Any right-angled triangle with an altitude so formed is being cut into a total of 3 triangles. These 3 triangles are similar to each other. Setup the corresponding ratios to find out the said relation.
      – Mick
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:18






    • 2




      Picture by Michael Chirico clearly shows that such a right triangle not exits while your picture is showing that such a triangle is constructed. it is also a contradiction between these two pictures here.
      – Bhaskara-III
      Jan 1 '16 at 16:46














    up vote
    95
    down vote













    There are many ways to prove that such triangle does not exist. I am using a different approach.



    enter image description here



    Suppose that the said right angled triangle can be formed. Then, we are interested in where should the foot of the said altitude (CD) be? [That is, how far is D (on AB) from A (or from B)?]



    We assume that D is $alpha$ and $beta$ units from A and B respectively.



    Clearly, we have $alpha + beta = 10$ …… (1)



    Also, by a fact on right angled triangles, we have $alpha beta= 6^2$ ……… (2)




    EDIT : That fact is "Power of a point".




    To find $alpha$ and $beta$ is equivalent to solving the quadratic equation $x^2 – 10x + 36 = 0$.



    Since the discriminant $(= [-10]^2 - 4 times 36)$ is negative , we can conclude that such roots ($alpha$ and $beta$) are not real.






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 4




      how did you generate such a nice diagram?
      – Fattie
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:17






    • 9




      @JoeBlow Using Geogebra. Image is then sent to WORD via the clipboard. After re-sizing, the adjusted image is then sent to PC Paintbrush for the final touch. It (*.png) is then uploaded.
      – Mick
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:05






    • 4




      i am really confused, it is clear thta $alpha+beta=10$ but how did yyou find $alpha beta=6^2=36$ i mean what geometry did you used to get eq(2)?
      – Bhaskara-III
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:12







    • 1




      @Bhaskara-III Any right-angled triangle with an altitude so formed is being cut into a total of 3 triangles. These 3 triangles are similar to each other. Setup the corresponding ratios to find out the said relation.
      – Mick
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:18






    • 2




      Picture by Michael Chirico clearly shows that such a right triangle not exits while your picture is showing that such a triangle is constructed. it is also a contradiction between these two pictures here.
      – Bhaskara-III
      Jan 1 '16 at 16:46












    up vote
    95
    down vote










    up vote
    95
    down vote









    There are many ways to prove that such triangle does not exist. I am using a different approach.



    enter image description here



    Suppose that the said right angled triangle can be formed. Then, we are interested in where should the foot of the said altitude (CD) be? [That is, how far is D (on AB) from A (or from B)?]



    We assume that D is $alpha$ and $beta$ units from A and B respectively.



    Clearly, we have $alpha + beta = 10$ …… (1)



    Also, by a fact on right angled triangles, we have $alpha beta= 6^2$ ……… (2)




    EDIT : That fact is "Power of a point".




    To find $alpha$ and $beta$ is equivalent to solving the quadratic equation $x^2 – 10x + 36 = 0$.



    Since the discriminant $(= [-10]^2 - 4 times 36)$ is negative , we can conclude that such roots ($alpha$ and $beta$) are not real.






    share|cite|improve this answer














    There are many ways to prove that such triangle does not exist. I am using a different approach.



    enter image description here



    Suppose that the said right angled triangle can be formed. Then, we are interested in where should the foot of the said altitude (CD) be? [That is, how far is D (on AB) from A (or from B)?]



    We assume that D is $alpha$ and $beta$ units from A and B respectively.



    Clearly, we have $alpha + beta = 10$ …… (1)



    Also, by a fact on right angled triangles, we have $alpha beta= 6^2$ ……… (2)




    EDIT : That fact is "Power of a point".




    To find $alpha$ and $beta$ is equivalent to solving the quadratic equation $x^2 – 10x + 36 = 0$.



    Since the discriminant $(= [-10]^2 - 4 times 36)$ is negative , we can conclude that such roots ($alpha$ and $beta$) are not real.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited May 9 '17 at 3:40

























    answered Dec 31 '15 at 10:45









    Mick

    11.5k21540




    11.5k21540







    • 4




      how did you generate such a nice diagram?
      – Fattie
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:17






    • 9




      @JoeBlow Using Geogebra. Image is then sent to WORD via the clipboard. After re-sizing, the adjusted image is then sent to PC Paintbrush for the final touch. It (*.png) is then uploaded.
      – Mick
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:05






    • 4




      i am really confused, it is clear thta $alpha+beta=10$ but how did yyou find $alpha beta=6^2=36$ i mean what geometry did you used to get eq(2)?
      – Bhaskara-III
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:12







    • 1




      @Bhaskara-III Any right-angled triangle with an altitude so formed is being cut into a total of 3 triangles. These 3 triangles are similar to each other. Setup the corresponding ratios to find out the said relation.
      – Mick
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:18






    • 2




      Picture by Michael Chirico clearly shows that such a right triangle not exits while your picture is showing that such a triangle is constructed. it is also a contradiction between these two pictures here.
      – Bhaskara-III
      Jan 1 '16 at 16:46












    • 4




      how did you generate such a nice diagram?
      – Fattie
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:17






    • 9




      @JoeBlow Using Geogebra. Image is then sent to WORD via the clipboard. After re-sizing, the adjusted image is then sent to PC Paintbrush for the final touch. It (*.png) is then uploaded.
      – Mick
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:05






    • 4




      i am really confused, it is clear thta $alpha+beta=10$ but how did yyou find $alpha beta=6^2=36$ i mean what geometry did you used to get eq(2)?
      – Bhaskara-III
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:12







    • 1




      @Bhaskara-III Any right-angled triangle with an altitude so formed is being cut into a total of 3 triangles. These 3 triangles are similar to each other. Setup the corresponding ratios to find out the said relation.
      – Mick
      Dec 31 '15 at 18:18






    • 2




      Picture by Michael Chirico clearly shows that such a right triangle not exits while your picture is showing that such a triangle is constructed. it is also a contradiction between these two pictures here.
      – Bhaskara-III
      Jan 1 '16 at 16:46







    4




    4




    how did you generate such a nice diagram?
    – Fattie
    Dec 31 '15 at 15:17




    how did you generate such a nice diagram?
    – Fattie
    Dec 31 '15 at 15:17




    9




    9




    @JoeBlow Using Geogebra. Image is then sent to WORD via the clipboard. After re-sizing, the adjusted image is then sent to PC Paintbrush for the final touch. It (*.png) is then uploaded.
    – Mick
    Dec 31 '15 at 18:05




    @JoeBlow Using Geogebra. Image is then sent to WORD via the clipboard. After re-sizing, the adjusted image is then sent to PC Paintbrush for the final touch. It (*.png) is then uploaded.
    – Mick
    Dec 31 '15 at 18:05




    4




    4




    i am really confused, it is clear thta $alpha+beta=10$ but how did yyou find $alpha beta=6^2=36$ i mean what geometry did you used to get eq(2)?
    – Bhaskara-III
    Dec 31 '15 at 18:12





    i am really confused, it is clear thta $alpha+beta=10$ but how did yyou find $alpha beta=6^2=36$ i mean what geometry did you used to get eq(2)?
    – Bhaskara-III
    Dec 31 '15 at 18:12





    1




    1




    @Bhaskara-III Any right-angled triangle with an altitude so formed is being cut into a total of 3 triangles. These 3 triangles are similar to each other. Setup the corresponding ratios to find out the said relation.
    – Mick
    Dec 31 '15 at 18:18




    @Bhaskara-III Any right-angled triangle with an altitude so formed is being cut into a total of 3 triangles. These 3 triangles are similar to each other. Setup the corresponding ratios to find out the said relation.
    – Mick
    Dec 31 '15 at 18:18




    2




    2




    Picture by Michael Chirico clearly shows that such a right triangle not exits while your picture is showing that such a triangle is constructed. it is also a contradiction between these two pictures here.
    – Bhaskara-III
    Jan 1 '16 at 16:46




    Picture by Michael Chirico clearly shows that such a right triangle not exits while your picture is showing that such a triangle is constructed. it is also a contradiction between these two pictures here.
    – Bhaskara-III
    Jan 1 '16 at 16:46










    up vote
    77
    down vote













    enter image description here



    The red line represents all possible third vertices for triangles with base 10 and height 6;



    The blue curve represents all possible third vertices for right triangles with hypotenuse 10.



    The two sets have null intersection.



    (in fact, the maximum possible third angle 6 units away is $arccos(frac1161)approx$ 79.6°)



    (and yes, technically we should include the corresponding points below the segment as well)






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 2




      I think your answer (along with all other answers, with the exception of the one by @AlanCampbell) has badly misinterpreted the problem. The problem statement says that the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse" -- not the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle -- is 6 inches. Thus, the triangle has sides 6, 8, and 10 inches -- there's no problem at all with such a triangle existing...
      – Mico
      Jan 4 '16 at 6:15






    • 3




      @Mico though I agree it's apparent the author should have been more careful with verbiage, I disagree with you for hair-splitting reasons. the problem states "the altitude"; in the 3-4-5 case it becomes immediately ambiguous as there are in fact three altitudes with an end on the hypotenuse. thinking this way, there is no way the author could get away with using the definite article. the only way we can take the problem as given is to deduce the author in fact meant the altitude corresponding to the right angle.
      – MichaelChirico
      Jan 4 '16 at 6:23






    • 4




      @Mico: what do you think the 'the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse"' is intended to mean? As far as I am concerned it is the exact same thing as 'the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle.' In any triangle there are three altitudes. Each can be specified by either the side on which they are dropped or by the vertex from which the are dropped (or still differently).
      – quid♦
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:03










    • I'll add that this could well be a quibble that is simply something lost in translation (I take it the original quote was in Russian?)... we need a native Russian speaker to comment on whether, in the original Russian, this ambiguity existed in the first place. Until the ambiguity is confirmed in the original Russian, this is simply a poor translation.
      – MichaelChirico
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:13










    • @MichaelChirico you're too kind; I followed exactly the same train of thought as you, except I attributed the odd grammar to either a poor translation or a non-native speaker doing the best they could. This subconscious hypothesis was reinforced by the odd syntax/ambiguity in the "as had their Russican peers" statement.
      – pjz
      Jan 4 '16 at 21:17















    up vote
    77
    down vote













    enter image description here



    The red line represents all possible third vertices for triangles with base 10 and height 6;



    The blue curve represents all possible third vertices for right triangles with hypotenuse 10.



    The two sets have null intersection.



    (in fact, the maximum possible third angle 6 units away is $arccos(frac1161)approx$ 79.6°)



    (and yes, technically we should include the corresponding points below the segment as well)






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 2




      I think your answer (along with all other answers, with the exception of the one by @AlanCampbell) has badly misinterpreted the problem. The problem statement says that the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse" -- not the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle -- is 6 inches. Thus, the triangle has sides 6, 8, and 10 inches -- there's no problem at all with such a triangle existing...
      – Mico
      Jan 4 '16 at 6:15






    • 3




      @Mico though I agree it's apparent the author should have been more careful with verbiage, I disagree with you for hair-splitting reasons. the problem states "the altitude"; in the 3-4-5 case it becomes immediately ambiguous as there are in fact three altitudes with an end on the hypotenuse. thinking this way, there is no way the author could get away with using the definite article. the only way we can take the problem as given is to deduce the author in fact meant the altitude corresponding to the right angle.
      – MichaelChirico
      Jan 4 '16 at 6:23






    • 4




      @Mico: what do you think the 'the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse"' is intended to mean? As far as I am concerned it is the exact same thing as 'the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle.' In any triangle there are three altitudes. Each can be specified by either the side on which they are dropped or by the vertex from which the are dropped (or still differently).
      – quid♦
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:03










    • I'll add that this could well be a quibble that is simply something lost in translation (I take it the original quote was in Russian?)... we need a native Russian speaker to comment on whether, in the original Russian, this ambiguity existed in the first place. Until the ambiguity is confirmed in the original Russian, this is simply a poor translation.
      – MichaelChirico
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:13










    • @MichaelChirico you're too kind; I followed exactly the same train of thought as you, except I attributed the odd grammar to either a poor translation or a non-native speaker doing the best they could. This subconscious hypothesis was reinforced by the odd syntax/ambiguity in the "as had their Russican peers" statement.
      – pjz
      Jan 4 '16 at 21:17













    up vote
    77
    down vote










    up vote
    77
    down vote









    enter image description here



    The red line represents all possible third vertices for triangles with base 10 and height 6;



    The blue curve represents all possible third vertices for right triangles with hypotenuse 10.



    The two sets have null intersection.



    (in fact, the maximum possible third angle 6 units away is $arccos(frac1161)approx$ 79.6°)



    (and yes, technically we should include the corresponding points below the segment as well)






    share|cite|improve this answer














    enter image description here



    The red line represents all possible third vertices for triangles with base 10 and height 6;



    The blue curve represents all possible third vertices for right triangles with hypotenuse 10.



    The two sets have null intersection.



    (in fact, the maximum possible third angle 6 units away is $arccos(frac1161)approx$ 79.6°)



    (and yes, technically we should include the corresponding points below the segment as well)







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Aug 12 at 0:57

























    answered Jan 1 '16 at 0:09









    MichaelChirico

    3,502925




    3,502925







    • 2




      I think your answer (along with all other answers, with the exception of the one by @AlanCampbell) has badly misinterpreted the problem. The problem statement says that the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse" -- not the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle -- is 6 inches. Thus, the triangle has sides 6, 8, and 10 inches -- there's no problem at all with such a triangle existing...
      – Mico
      Jan 4 '16 at 6:15






    • 3




      @Mico though I agree it's apparent the author should have been more careful with verbiage, I disagree with you for hair-splitting reasons. the problem states "the altitude"; in the 3-4-5 case it becomes immediately ambiguous as there are in fact three altitudes with an end on the hypotenuse. thinking this way, there is no way the author could get away with using the definite article. the only way we can take the problem as given is to deduce the author in fact meant the altitude corresponding to the right angle.
      – MichaelChirico
      Jan 4 '16 at 6:23






    • 4




      @Mico: what do you think the 'the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse"' is intended to mean? As far as I am concerned it is the exact same thing as 'the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle.' In any triangle there are three altitudes. Each can be specified by either the side on which they are dropped or by the vertex from which the are dropped (or still differently).
      – quid♦
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:03










    • I'll add that this could well be a quibble that is simply something lost in translation (I take it the original quote was in Russian?)... we need a native Russian speaker to comment on whether, in the original Russian, this ambiguity existed in the first place. Until the ambiguity is confirmed in the original Russian, this is simply a poor translation.
      – MichaelChirico
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:13










    • @MichaelChirico you're too kind; I followed exactly the same train of thought as you, except I attributed the odd grammar to either a poor translation or a non-native speaker doing the best they could. This subconscious hypothesis was reinforced by the odd syntax/ambiguity in the "as had their Russican peers" statement.
      – pjz
      Jan 4 '16 at 21:17













    • 2




      I think your answer (along with all other answers, with the exception of the one by @AlanCampbell) has badly misinterpreted the problem. The problem statement says that the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse" -- not the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle -- is 6 inches. Thus, the triangle has sides 6, 8, and 10 inches -- there's no problem at all with such a triangle existing...
      – Mico
      Jan 4 '16 at 6:15






    • 3




      @Mico though I agree it's apparent the author should have been more careful with verbiage, I disagree with you for hair-splitting reasons. the problem states "the altitude"; in the 3-4-5 case it becomes immediately ambiguous as there are in fact three altitudes with an end on the hypotenuse. thinking this way, there is no way the author could get away with using the definite article. the only way we can take the problem as given is to deduce the author in fact meant the altitude corresponding to the right angle.
      – MichaelChirico
      Jan 4 '16 at 6:23






    • 4




      @Mico: what do you think the 'the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse"' is intended to mean? As far as I am concerned it is the exact same thing as 'the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle.' In any triangle there are three altitudes. Each can be specified by either the side on which they are dropped or by the vertex from which the are dropped (or still differently).
      – quid♦
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:03










    • I'll add that this could well be a quibble that is simply something lost in translation (I take it the original quote was in Russian?)... we need a native Russian speaker to comment on whether, in the original Russian, this ambiguity existed in the first place. Until the ambiguity is confirmed in the original Russian, this is simply a poor translation.
      – MichaelChirico
      Jan 4 '16 at 20:13










    • @MichaelChirico you're too kind; I followed exactly the same train of thought as you, except I attributed the odd grammar to either a poor translation or a non-native speaker doing the best they could. This subconscious hypothesis was reinforced by the odd syntax/ambiguity in the "as had their Russican peers" statement.
      – pjz
      Jan 4 '16 at 21:17








    2




    2




    I think your answer (along with all other answers, with the exception of the one by @AlanCampbell) has badly misinterpreted the problem. The problem statement says that the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse" -- not the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle -- is 6 inches. Thus, the triangle has sides 6, 8, and 10 inches -- there's no problem at all with such a triangle existing...
    – Mico
    Jan 4 '16 at 6:15




    I think your answer (along with all other answers, with the exception of the one by @AlanCampbell) has badly misinterpreted the problem. The problem statement says that the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse" -- not the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle -- is 6 inches. Thus, the triangle has sides 6, 8, and 10 inches -- there's no problem at all with such a triangle existing...
    – Mico
    Jan 4 '16 at 6:15




    3




    3




    @Mico though I agree it's apparent the author should have been more careful with verbiage, I disagree with you for hair-splitting reasons. the problem states "the altitude"; in the 3-4-5 case it becomes immediately ambiguous as there are in fact three altitudes with an end on the hypotenuse. thinking this way, there is no way the author could get away with using the definite article. the only way we can take the problem as given is to deduce the author in fact meant the altitude corresponding to the right angle.
    – MichaelChirico
    Jan 4 '16 at 6:23




    @Mico though I agree it's apparent the author should have been more careful with verbiage, I disagree with you for hair-splitting reasons. the problem states "the altitude"; in the 3-4-5 case it becomes immediately ambiguous as there are in fact three altitudes with an end on the hypotenuse. thinking this way, there is no way the author could get away with using the definite article. the only way we can take the problem as given is to deduce the author in fact meant the altitude corresponding to the right angle.
    – MichaelChirico
    Jan 4 '16 at 6:23




    4




    4




    @Mico: what do you think the 'the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse"' is intended to mean? As far as I am concerned it is the exact same thing as 'the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle.' In any triangle there are three altitudes. Each can be specified by either the side on which they are dropped or by the vertex from which the are dropped (or still differently).
    – quid♦
    Jan 4 '16 at 20:03




    @Mico: what do you think the 'the altitude "dropped onto the hypotenuse"' is intended to mean? As far as I am concerned it is the exact same thing as 'the one from dropped from the vertex with the right angle.' In any triangle there are three altitudes. Each can be specified by either the side on which they are dropped or by the vertex from which the are dropped (or still differently).
    – quid♦
    Jan 4 '16 at 20:03












    I'll add that this could well be a quibble that is simply something lost in translation (I take it the original quote was in Russian?)... we need a native Russian speaker to comment on whether, in the original Russian, this ambiguity existed in the first place. Until the ambiguity is confirmed in the original Russian, this is simply a poor translation.
    – MichaelChirico
    Jan 4 '16 at 20:13




    I'll add that this could well be a quibble that is simply something lost in translation (I take it the original quote was in Russian?)... we need a native Russian speaker to comment on whether, in the original Russian, this ambiguity existed in the first place. Until the ambiguity is confirmed in the original Russian, this is simply a poor translation.
    – MichaelChirico
    Jan 4 '16 at 20:13












    @MichaelChirico you're too kind; I followed exactly the same train of thought as you, except I attributed the odd grammar to either a poor translation or a non-native speaker doing the best they could. This subconscious hypothesis was reinforced by the odd syntax/ambiguity in the "as had their Russican peers" statement.
    – pjz
    Jan 4 '16 at 21:17





    @MichaelChirico you're too kind; I followed exactly the same train of thought as you, except I attributed the odd grammar to either a poor translation or a non-native speaker doing the best they could. This subconscious hypothesis was reinforced by the odd syntax/ambiguity in the "as had their Russican peers" statement.
    – pjz
    Jan 4 '16 at 21:17











    up vote
    34
    down vote













    By mistake, one can fairly easily calculate the area of given right triangle as $frac12(10)(6)=30$ but this is incorrect. Why? Perhaps, this is the intuition behind the question that one should first check the existence of such a right triangle with given data before calculating area.



    A right triangle with hypotenuse $10$ & an altitude of $6$ drawn to it doesn't exist because the maximum possible length of altitude drawn to the hypotenuse is $5$ i.e. half the length of hypotenuse. Here is an analytic proof to check existence of such a right triangle.




    Statement: The maximum length of altitude, drawn from right angled vertex to the hypotenuse of length $a$ in a right triangle, is $a/2$ i.e. half the length of hypotenuse.




    Proof: Let $x$ & $y$ be the legs (of variable length) of the right triangle having hypotenuse $a$ (known value) then using Pythagorean theorem, one should have $$x^2+y^2=10^2$$ $$y^2=a^2-x^2tag 1$$
    Now, the length of altitude say $p$ drawn to the hypotenuse in right triangle is given as $$=colorbluefrac(textleg_1)times (textleg_2)(texthypotenuse)=fracxya$$ $$implies p=fracxya$$$$iff a^2p^2=x^2y^2tag 2$$
    let $a^2p^2=P$ (some other variable ), now setting value of $y^2$ from (1), $$P=x^2(a^2-x^2)=a^2x^2-x^4$$ $$fracdPdx=2a^2x-4x^3$$
    $$fracd^2Pdx^2=2a^2-12x^2tag 3$$
    For maxima or minima, setting $fracdPdx=0$, $$2a^2x-4x^3=0implies x=0,fracasqrt 2, -fracasqrt 2$$, But $x>0$, hence $x=fracasqrt 2$. Now, setting this value of $x$ in (3),
    $$fracd^2Pdx^2=2a^2-12left(fracasqrt 2right)^2=-4a^2<0$$ hence, $P$ i.e. $a^2p^2$ is maximum at $x=fracasqrt 2$ hence, from (1), the corresponding value of $y$, $$y=sqrta^2-fraca^22=fracasqrt 2$$



    hence, the maximum possible length of altitude drawn (from right angled vertex ) to the hypotenuse, $$colorredp=fracxya=fracfracasqrt 2fracasqrt 2a=colorredfraca2$$
    So if the length of altitude $p$ is greater than $fraca2$ (half the length of hypotenuse) then such a right triangle doesn't exist.






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 1




      "A right triangle with hypotenuse 100 & an altitude of 6" I guess there's a typo and should say 10. Great explanation though.
      – Masclins
      Dec 31 '15 at 7:50






    • 5




      An easier proof would be to draw a Thales' circle around the hypotenuse and note that it has no point 6 inches away from the hypotenuse.
      – John Dvorak
      Dec 31 '15 at 10:20






    • 6




      An easier proof would be to note that $a = sqrtx^2+y^2$ and height/hypotenuse $= fracxyx^2+y^2 le frac12 $ by AM GM inequality.
      – Ishan Banerjee
      Dec 31 '15 at 12:23






    • 6




      Calculus is a bit overkill for such a simple proof, see @Mick answer
      – mattecapu
      Dec 31 '15 at 13:53






    • 3




      Calculus is used just to show the result analytically.
      – Harish Chandra Rajpoot
      Jan 1 '16 at 19:33















    up vote
    34
    down vote













    By mistake, one can fairly easily calculate the area of given right triangle as $frac12(10)(6)=30$ but this is incorrect. Why? Perhaps, this is the intuition behind the question that one should first check the existence of such a right triangle with given data before calculating area.



    A right triangle with hypotenuse $10$ & an altitude of $6$ drawn to it doesn't exist because the maximum possible length of altitude drawn to the hypotenuse is $5$ i.e. half the length of hypotenuse. Here is an analytic proof to check existence of such a right triangle.




    Statement: The maximum length of altitude, drawn from right angled vertex to the hypotenuse of length $a$ in a right triangle, is $a/2$ i.e. half the length of hypotenuse.




    Proof: Let $x$ & $y$ be the legs (of variable length) of the right triangle having hypotenuse $a$ (known value) then using Pythagorean theorem, one should have $$x^2+y^2=10^2$$ $$y^2=a^2-x^2tag 1$$
    Now, the length of altitude say $p$ drawn to the hypotenuse in right triangle is given as $$=colorbluefrac(textleg_1)times (textleg_2)(texthypotenuse)=fracxya$$ $$implies p=fracxya$$$$iff a^2p^2=x^2y^2tag 2$$
    let $a^2p^2=P$ (some other variable ), now setting value of $y^2$ from (1), $$P=x^2(a^2-x^2)=a^2x^2-x^4$$ $$fracdPdx=2a^2x-4x^3$$
    $$fracd^2Pdx^2=2a^2-12x^2tag 3$$
    For maxima or minima, setting $fracdPdx=0$, $$2a^2x-4x^3=0implies x=0,fracasqrt 2, -fracasqrt 2$$, But $x>0$, hence $x=fracasqrt 2$. Now, setting this value of $x$ in (3),
    $$fracd^2Pdx^2=2a^2-12left(fracasqrt 2right)^2=-4a^2<0$$ hence, $P$ i.e. $a^2p^2$ is maximum at $x=fracasqrt 2$ hence, from (1), the corresponding value of $y$, $$y=sqrta^2-fraca^22=fracasqrt 2$$



    hence, the maximum possible length of altitude drawn (from right angled vertex ) to the hypotenuse, $$colorredp=fracxya=fracfracasqrt 2fracasqrt 2a=colorredfraca2$$
    So if the length of altitude $p$ is greater than $fraca2$ (half the length of hypotenuse) then such a right triangle doesn't exist.






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 1




      "A right triangle with hypotenuse 100 & an altitude of 6" I guess there's a typo and should say 10. Great explanation though.
      – Masclins
      Dec 31 '15 at 7:50






    • 5




      An easier proof would be to draw a Thales' circle around the hypotenuse and note that it has no point 6 inches away from the hypotenuse.
      – John Dvorak
      Dec 31 '15 at 10:20






    • 6




      An easier proof would be to note that $a = sqrtx^2+y^2$ and height/hypotenuse $= fracxyx^2+y^2 le frac12 $ by AM GM inequality.
      – Ishan Banerjee
      Dec 31 '15 at 12:23






    • 6




      Calculus is a bit overkill for such a simple proof, see @Mick answer
      – mattecapu
      Dec 31 '15 at 13:53






    • 3




      Calculus is used just to show the result analytically.
      – Harish Chandra Rajpoot
      Jan 1 '16 at 19:33













    up vote
    34
    down vote










    up vote
    34
    down vote









    By mistake, one can fairly easily calculate the area of given right triangle as $frac12(10)(6)=30$ but this is incorrect. Why? Perhaps, this is the intuition behind the question that one should first check the existence of such a right triangle with given data before calculating area.



    A right triangle with hypotenuse $10$ & an altitude of $6$ drawn to it doesn't exist because the maximum possible length of altitude drawn to the hypotenuse is $5$ i.e. half the length of hypotenuse. Here is an analytic proof to check existence of such a right triangle.




    Statement: The maximum length of altitude, drawn from right angled vertex to the hypotenuse of length $a$ in a right triangle, is $a/2$ i.e. half the length of hypotenuse.




    Proof: Let $x$ & $y$ be the legs (of variable length) of the right triangle having hypotenuse $a$ (known value) then using Pythagorean theorem, one should have $$x^2+y^2=10^2$$ $$y^2=a^2-x^2tag 1$$
    Now, the length of altitude say $p$ drawn to the hypotenuse in right triangle is given as $$=colorbluefrac(textleg_1)times (textleg_2)(texthypotenuse)=fracxya$$ $$implies p=fracxya$$$$iff a^2p^2=x^2y^2tag 2$$
    let $a^2p^2=P$ (some other variable ), now setting value of $y^2$ from (1), $$P=x^2(a^2-x^2)=a^2x^2-x^4$$ $$fracdPdx=2a^2x-4x^3$$
    $$fracd^2Pdx^2=2a^2-12x^2tag 3$$
    For maxima or minima, setting $fracdPdx=0$, $$2a^2x-4x^3=0implies x=0,fracasqrt 2, -fracasqrt 2$$, But $x>0$, hence $x=fracasqrt 2$. Now, setting this value of $x$ in (3),
    $$fracd^2Pdx^2=2a^2-12left(fracasqrt 2right)^2=-4a^2<0$$ hence, $P$ i.e. $a^2p^2$ is maximum at $x=fracasqrt 2$ hence, from (1), the corresponding value of $y$, $$y=sqrta^2-fraca^22=fracasqrt 2$$



    hence, the maximum possible length of altitude drawn (from right angled vertex ) to the hypotenuse, $$colorredp=fracxya=fracfracasqrt 2fracasqrt 2a=colorredfraca2$$
    So if the length of altitude $p$ is greater than $fraca2$ (half the length of hypotenuse) then such a right triangle doesn't exist.






    share|cite|improve this answer














    By mistake, one can fairly easily calculate the area of given right triangle as $frac12(10)(6)=30$ but this is incorrect. Why? Perhaps, this is the intuition behind the question that one should first check the existence of such a right triangle with given data before calculating area.



    A right triangle with hypotenuse $10$ & an altitude of $6$ drawn to it doesn't exist because the maximum possible length of altitude drawn to the hypotenuse is $5$ i.e. half the length of hypotenuse. Here is an analytic proof to check existence of such a right triangle.




    Statement: The maximum length of altitude, drawn from right angled vertex to the hypotenuse of length $a$ in a right triangle, is $a/2$ i.e. half the length of hypotenuse.




    Proof: Let $x$ & $y$ be the legs (of variable length) of the right triangle having hypotenuse $a$ (known value) then using Pythagorean theorem, one should have $$x^2+y^2=10^2$$ $$y^2=a^2-x^2tag 1$$
    Now, the length of altitude say $p$ drawn to the hypotenuse in right triangle is given as $$=colorbluefrac(textleg_1)times (textleg_2)(texthypotenuse)=fracxya$$ $$implies p=fracxya$$$$iff a^2p^2=x^2y^2tag 2$$
    let $a^2p^2=P$ (some other variable ), now setting value of $y^2$ from (1), $$P=x^2(a^2-x^2)=a^2x^2-x^4$$ $$fracdPdx=2a^2x-4x^3$$
    $$fracd^2Pdx^2=2a^2-12x^2tag 3$$
    For maxima or minima, setting $fracdPdx=0$, $$2a^2x-4x^3=0implies x=0,fracasqrt 2, -fracasqrt 2$$, But $x>0$, hence $x=fracasqrt 2$. Now, setting this value of $x$ in (3),
    $$fracd^2Pdx^2=2a^2-12left(fracasqrt 2right)^2=-4a^2<0$$ hence, $P$ i.e. $a^2p^2$ is maximum at $x=fracasqrt 2$ hence, from (1), the corresponding value of $y$, $$y=sqrta^2-fraca^22=fracasqrt 2$$



    hence, the maximum possible length of altitude drawn (from right angled vertex ) to the hypotenuse, $$colorredp=fracxya=fracfracasqrt 2fracasqrt 2a=colorredfraca2$$
    So if the length of altitude $p$ is greater than $fraca2$ (half the length of hypotenuse) then such a right triangle doesn't exist.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Jan 2 '16 at 3:46

























    answered Dec 31 '15 at 7:00









    Harish Chandra Rajpoot

    29.3k103570




    29.3k103570







    • 1




      "A right triangle with hypotenuse 100 & an altitude of 6" I guess there's a typo and should say 10. Great explanation though.
      – Masclins
      Dec 31 '15 at 7:50






    • 5




      An easier proof would be to draw a Thales' circle around the hypotenuse and note that it has no point 6 inches away from the hypotenuse.
      – John Dvorak
      Dec 31 '15 at 10:20






    • 6




      An easier proof would be to note that $a = sqrtx^2+y^2$ and height/hypotenuse $= fracxyx^2+y^2 le frac12 $ by AM GM inequality.
      – Ishan Banerjee
      Dec 31 '15 at 12:23






    • 6




      Calculus is a bit overkill for such a simple proof, see @Mick answer
      – mattecapu
      Dec 31 '15 at 13:53






    • 3




      Calculus is used just to show the result analytically.
      – Harish Chandra Rajpoot
      Jan 1 '16 at 19:33













    • 1




      "A right triangle with hypotenuse 100 & an altitude of 6" I guess there's a typo and should say 10. Great explanation though.
      – Masclins
      Dec 31 '15 at 7:50






    • 5




      An easier proof would be to draw a Thales' circle around the hypotenuse and note that it has no point 6 inches away from the hypotenuse.
      – John Dvorak
      Dec 31 '15 at 10:20






    • 6




      An easier proof would be to note that $a = sqrtx^2+y^2$ and height/hypotenuse $= fracxyx^2+y^2 le frac12 $ by AM GM inequality.
      – Ishan Banerjee
      Dec 31 '15 at 12:23






    • 6




      Calculus is a bit overkill for such a simple proof, see @Mick answer
      – mattecapu
      Dec 31 '15 at 13:53






    • 3




      Calculus is used just to show the result analytically.
      – Harish Chandra Rajpoot
      Jan 1 '16 at 19:33








    1




    1




    "A right triangle with hypotenuse 100 & an altitude of 6" I guess there's a typo and should say 10. Great explanation though.
    – Masclins
    Dec 31 '15 at 7:50




    "A right triangle with hypotenuse 100 & an altitude of 6" I guess there's a typo and should say 10. Great explanation though.
    – Masclins
    Dec 31 '15 at 7:50




    5




    5




    An easier proof would be to draw a Thales' circle around the hypotenuse and note that it has no point 6 inches away from the hypotenuse.
    – John Dvorak
    Dec 31 '15 at 10:20




    An easier proof would be to draw a Thales' circle around the hypotenuse and note that it has no point 6 inches away from the hypotenuse.
    – John Dvorak
    Dec 31 '15 at 10:20




    6




    6




    An easier proof would be to note that $a = sqrtx^2+y^2$ and height/hypotenuse $= fracxyx^2+y^2 le frac12 $ by AM GM inequality.
    – Ishan Banerjee
    Dec 31 '15 at 12:23




    An easier proof would be to note that $a = sqrtx^2+y^2$ and height/hypotenuse $= fracxyx^2+y^2 le frac12 $ by AM GM inequality.
    – Ishan Banerjee
    Dec 31 '15 at 12:23




    6




    6




    Calculus is a bit overkill for such a simple proof, see @Mick answer
    – mattecapu
    Dec 31 '15 at 13:53




    Calculus is a bit overkill for such a simple proof, see @Mick answer
    – mattecapu
    Dec 31 '15 at 13:53




    3




    3




    Calculus is used just to show the result analytically.
    – Harish Chandra Rajpoot
    Jan 1 '16 at 19:33





    Calculus is used just to show the result analytically.
    – Harish Chandra Rajpoot
    Jan 1 '16 at 19:33











    up vote
    29
    down vote













    Interesting - I had forgotten what an altitude was. Wikipedia says:




    In geometry, an altitude of a triangle is a line segment through a vertex and perpendicular to (i.e. forming a right angle with) a line containing the base (the opposite side of the triangle). This line containing the opposite side is called the extended base of the altitude.




    Who said the hypotenuse was the base? Why can't the altitude be equal to one side of the triangle?



    This is a 3-4-5 right angled triangle. Or, to be precise: a 6-8-10 triangle. Hypotenuse is 10 inches, "altitude" (or height) is 6 inches, so the base is 8 inches.



    Area is: 1/2 * (6) * (8) = 24 square inches.



    If you insist on defining altitude as the distance from right-angled vertex to the hypotenuse, you get the problems others have already discussed.



    Edit: An altitude is at right-angle to a side, and connects a side to a vertex. In this case we have an (unspecified) base, an altitude of 6 inches, and a 10 inch hypotenuse.



    If the base is horizontal, and the altitude "drops" from the end, making a right-angle, then it contacts the hypotenuse line at the very end. The right-angle required of an altitude is formed at the base end, not the hypotenuse end.






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 5




      I'm with Alan in that: "I had no clue that 'altitude' is apparently used in such a well-agreed way, indeed, I rather disagree that it is such a well-agreed term". However Alan, I'd point out that it is indeed meant to be a joke. The joke only "makes sense" if one interprets it in the obvious way. (One could say, it's not for example an engineering description where we'd all assert "don't use such vague terminology".) Also if I'm not mistaken it comes from an earlier historical period (and indeed from Russia?) so it's reasonable to have to tease-out that meaning, I think.
      – Fattie
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:23







    • 28




      The question doesn't just mention "an (or the) altitude", it mentions "the hypotenuse ... and the altitude dropped onto it". There is only one altitude dropped onto the hypotenuse, and that is the one from the right-angle.
      – IanF1
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:55






    • 7




      The formulation says “The altitude dropped onto it” (i.e. the hypotenuse) “ is”.
      – PJTraill
      Dec 31 '15 at 16:31






    • 13




      @Alan: every triangle has three altitudes, one perpendicular to each side. For a right triangle, the two legs are each other's altitudes, but the problem clearly refers to the third altitude, the one dropped onto (and hence perpendicular to) the hypotenuse, which is neither of the legs. This is completely standard terminology as far as I know.
      – Qiaochu Yuan
      Dec 31 '15 at 19:19






    • 10




      This was my interpretation, too. I had never heard the phrase 'altitude dropped onto' the hypotenuse of a right triangle and figured this was a side and it was a 6-8-10 right triangle with area 24. I certainly believe Qiaochu that this is standard terminology, but I was an American student and it's not something I ever remember hearing.
      – Adam Acosta
      Jan 1 '16 at 0:49














    up vote
    29
    down vote













    Interesting - I had forgotten what an altitude was. Wikipedia says:




    In geometry, an altitude of a triangle is a line segment through a vertex and perpendicular to (i.e. forming a right angle with) a line containing the base (the opposite side of the triangle). This line containing the opposite side is called the extended base of the altitude.




    Who said the hypotenuse was the base? Why can't the altitude be equal to one side of the triangle?



    This is a 3-4-5 right angled triangle. Or, to be precise: a 6-8-10 triangle. Hypotenuse is 10 inches, "altitude" (or height) is 6 inches, so the base is 8 inches.



    Area is: 1/2 * (6) * (8) = 24 square inches.



    If you insist on defining altitude as the distance from right-angled vertex to the hypotenuse, you get the problems others have already discussed.



    Edit: An altitude is at right-angle to a side, and connects a side to a vertex. In this case we have an (unspecified) base, an altitude of 6 inches, and a 10 inch hypotenuse.



    If the base is horizontal, and the altitude "drops" from the end, making a right-angle, then it contacts the hypotenuse line at the very end. The right-angle required of an altitude is formed at the base end, not the hypotenuse end.






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 5




      I'm with Alan in that: "I had no clue that 'altitude' is apparently used in such a well-agreed way, indeed, I rather disagree that it is such a well-agreed term". However Alan, I'd point out that it is indeed meant to be a joke. The joke only "makes sense" if one interprets it in the obvious way. (One could say, it's not for example an engineering description where we'd all assert "don't use such vague terminology".) Also if I'm not mistaken it comes from an earlier historical period (and indeed from Russia?) so it's reasonable to have to tease-out that meaning, I think.
      – Fattie
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:23







    • 28




      The question doesn't just mention "an (or the) altitude", it mentions "the hypotenuse ... and the altitude dropped onto it". There is only one altitude dropped onto the hypotenuse, and that is the one from the right-angle.
      – IanF1
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:55






    • 7




      The formulation says “The altitude dropped onto it” (i.e. the hypotenuse) “ is”.
      – PJTraill
      Dec 31 '15 at 16:31






    • 13




      @Alan: every triangle has three altitudes, one perpendicular to each side. For a right triangle, the two legs are each other's altitudes, but the problem clearly refers to the third altitude, the one dropped onto (and hence perpendicular to) the hypotenuse, which is neither of the legs. This is completely standard terminology as far as I know.
      – Qiaochu Yuan
      Dec 31 '15 at 19:19






    • 10




      This was my interpretation, too. I had never heard the phrase 'altitude dropped onto' the hypotenuse of a right triangle and figured this was a side and it was a 6-8-10 right triangle with area 24. I certainly believe Qiaochu that this is standard terminology, but I was an American student and it's not something I ever remember hearing.
      – Adam Acosta
      Jan 1 '16 at 0:49












    up vote
    29
    down vote










    up vote
    29
    down vote









    Interesting - I had forgotten what an altitude was. Wikipedia says:




    In geometry, an altitude of a triangle is a line segment through a vertex and perpendicular to (i.e. forming a right angle with) a line containing the base (the opposite side of the triangle). This line containing the opposite side is called the extended base of the altitude.




    Who said the hypotenuse was the base? Why can't the altitude be equal to one side of the triangle?



    This is a 3-4-5 right angled triangle. Or, to be precise: a 6-8-10 triangle. Hypotenuse is 10 inches, "altitude" (or height) is 6 inches, so the base is 8 inches.



    Area is: 1/2 * (6) * (8) = 24 square inches.



    If you insist on defining altitude as the distance from right-angled vertex to the hypotenuse, you get the problems others have already discussed.



    Edit: An altitude is at right-angle to a side, and connects a side to a vertex. In this case we have an (unspecified) base, an altitude of 6 inches, and a 10 inch hypotenuse.



    If the base is horizontal, and the altitude "drops" from the end, making a right-angle, then it contacts the hypotenuse line at the very end. The right-angle required of an altitude is formed at the base end, not the hypotenuse end.






    share|cite|improve this answer














    Interesting - I had forgotten what an altitude was. Wikipedia says:




    In geometry, an altitude of a triangle is a line segment through a vertex and perpendicular to (i.e. forming a right angle with) a line containing the base (the opposite side of the triangle). This line containing the opposite side is called the extended base of the altitude.




    Who said the hypotenuse was the base? Why can't the altitude be equal to one side of the triangle?



    This is a 3-4-5 right angled triangle. Or, to be precise: a 6-8-10 triangle. Hypotenuse is 10 inches, "altitude" (or height) is 6 inches, so the base is 8 inches.



    Area is: 1/2 * (6) * (8) = 24 square inches.



    If you insist on defining altitude as the distance from right-angled vertex to the hypotenuse, you get the problems others have already discussed.



    Edit: An altitude is at right-angle to a side, and connects a side to a vertex. In this case we have an (unspecified) base, an altitude of 6 inches, and a 10 inch hypotenuse.



    If the base is horizontal, and the altitude "drops" from the end, making a right-angle, then it contacts the hypotenuse line at the very end. The right-angle required of an altitude is formed at the base end, not the hypotenuse end.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Jan 6 '16 at 5:11

























    answered Dec 31 '15 at 12:18









    Alan Campbell

    46537




    46537







    • 5




      I'm with Alan in that: "I had no clue that 'altitude' is apparently used in such a well-agreed way, indeed, I rather disagree that it is such a well-agreed term". However Alan, I'd point out that it is indeed meant to be a joke. The joke only "makes sense" if one interprets it in the obvious way. (One could say, it's not for example an engineering description where we'd all assert "don't use such vague terminology".) Also if I'm not mistaken it comes from an earlier historical period (and indeed from Russia?) so it's reasonable to have to tease-out that meaning, I think.
      – Fattie
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:23







    • 28




      The question doesn't just mention "an (or the) altitude", it mentions "the hypotenuse ... and the altitude dropped onto it". There is only one altitude dropped onto the hypotenuse, and that is the one from the right-angle.
      – IanF1
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:55






    • 7




      The formulation says “The altitude dropped onto it” (i.e. the hypotenuse) “ is”.
      – PJTraill
      Dec 31 '15 at 16:31






    • 13




      @Alan: every triangle has three altitudes, one perpendicular to each side. For a right triangle, the two legs are each other's altitudes, but the problem clearly refers to the third altitude, the one dropped onto (and hence perpendicular to) the hypotenuse, which is neither of the legs. This is completely standard terminology as far as I know.
      – Qiaochu Yuan
      Dec 31 '15 at 19:19






    • 10




      This was my interpretation, too. I had never heard the phrase 'altitude dropped onto' the hypotenuse of a right triangle and figured this was a side and it was a 6-8-10 right triangle with area 24. I certainly believe Qiaochu that this is standard terminology, but I was an American student and it's not something I ever remember hearing.
      – Adam Acosta
      Jan 1 '16 at 0:49












    • 5




      I'm with Alan in that: "I had no clue that 'altitude' is apparently used in such a well-agreed way, indeed, I rather disagree that it is such a well-agreed term". However Alan, I'd point out that it is indeed meant to be a joke. The joke only "makes sense" if one interprets it in the obvious way. (One could say, it's not for example an engineering description where we'd all assert "don't use such vague terminology".) Also if I'm not mistaken it comes from an earlier historical period (and indeed from Russia?) so it's reasonable to have to tease-out that meaning, I think.
      – Fattie
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:23







    • 28




      The question doesn't just mention "an (or the) altitude", it mentions "the hypotenuse ... and the altitude dropped onto it". There is only one altitude dropped onto the hypotenuse, and that is the one from the right-angle.
      – IanF1
      Dec 31 '15 at 15:55






    • 7




      The formulation says “The altitude dropped onto it” (i.e. the hypotenuse) “ is”.
      – PJTraill
      Dec 31 '15 at 16:31






    • 13




      @Alan: every triangle has three altitudes, one perpendicular to each side. For a right triangle, the two legs are each other's altitudes, but the problem clearly refers to the third altitude, the one dropped onto (and hence perpendicular to) the hypotenuse, which is neither of the legs. This is completely standard terminology as far as I know.
      – Qiaochu Yuan
      Dec 31 '15 at 19:19






    • 10




      This was my interpretation, too. I had never heard the phrase 'altitude dropped onto' the hypotenuse of a right triangle and figured this was a side and it was a 6-8-10 right triangle with area 24. I certainly believe Qiaochu that this is standard terminology, but I was an American student and it's not something I ever remember hearing.
      – Adam Acosta
      Jan 1 '16 at 0:49







    5




    5




    I'm with Alan in that: "I had no clue that 'altitude' is apparently used in such a well-agreed way, indeed, I rather disagree that it is such a well-agreed term". However Alan, I'd point out that it is indeed meant to be a joke. The joke only "makes sense" if one interprets it in the obvious way. (One could say, it's not for example an engineering description where we'd all assert "don't use such vague terminology".) Also if I'm not mistaken it comes from an earlier historical period (and indeed from Russia?) so it's reasonable to have to tease-out that meaning, I think.
    – Fattie
    Dec 31 '15 at 15:23





    I'm with Alan in that: "I had no clue that 'altitude' is apparently used in such a well-agreed way, indeed, I rather disagree that it is such a well-agreed term". However Alan, I'd point out that it is indeed meant to be a joke. The joke only "makes sense" if one interprets it in the obvious way. (One could say, it's not for example an engineering description where we'd all assert "don't use such vague terminology".) Also if I'm not mistaken it comes from an earlier historical period (and indeed from Russia?) so it's reasonable to have to tease-out that meaning, I think.
    – Fattie
    Dec 31 '15 at 15:23





    28




    28




    The question doesn't just mention "an (or the) altitude", it mentions "the hypotenuse ... and the altitude dropped onto it". There is only one altitude dropped onto the hypotenuse, and that is the one from the right-angle.
    – IanF1
    Dec 31 '15 at 15:55




    The question doesn't just mention "an (or the) altitude", it mentions "the hypotenuse ... and the altitude dropped onto it". There is only one altitude dropped onto the hypotenuse, and that is the one from the right-angle.
    – IanF1
    Dec 31 '15 at 15:55




    7




    7




    The formulation says “The altitude dropped onto it” (i.e. the hypotenuse) “ is”.
    – PJTraill
    Dec 31 '15 at 16:31




    The formulation says “The altitude dropped onto it” (i.e. the hypotenuse) “ is”.
    – PJTraill
    Dec 31 '15 at 16:31




    13




    13




    @Alan: every triangle has three altitudes, one perpendicular to each side. For a right triangle, the two legs are each other's altitudes, but the problem clearly refers to the third altitude, the one dropped onto (and hence perpendicular to) the hypotenuse, which is neither of the legs. This is completely standard terminology as far as I know.
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    Dec 31 '15 at 19:19




    @Alan: every triangle has three altitudes, one perpendicular to each side. For a right triangle, the two legs are each other's altitudes, but the problem clearly refers to the third altitude, the one dropped onto (and hence perpendicular to) the hypotenuse, which is neither of the legs. This is completely standard terminology as far as I know.
    – Qiaochu Yuan
    Dec 31 '15 at 19:19




    10




    10




    This was my interpretation, too. I had never heard the phrase 'altitude dropped onto' the hypotenuse of a right triangle and figured this was a side and it was a 6-8-10 right triangle with area 24. I certainly believe Qiaochu that this is standard terminology, but I was an American student and it's not something I ever remember hearing.
    – Adam Acosta
    Jan 1 '16 at 0:49




    This was my interpretation, too. I had never heard the phrase 'altitude dropped onto' the hypotenuse of a right triangle and figured this was a side and it was a 6-8-10 right triangle with area 24. I certainly believe Qiaochu that this is standard terminology, but I was an American student and it's not something I ever remember hearing.
    – Adam Acosta
    Jan 1 '16 at 0:49










    up vote
    21
    down vote













    Non-Euclidian triangle on a sphere



    Here a non-Euclidian answer to the question



    The depicted sphere has a circumference of length 40, and thus a radius of $frac20pi$. The points $A$ and $B$ are located on the equator, and $C$ is located on a pole.



    Now $triangle ABC$ is a right triangle (it even has two right angles), since all meridians intersect the equator perpendicularly.



    Define $AC$ to be the hypothenusa, with length $10$. The height, being the shortest distance from $B$ to its hypothenusa $AC$ is then indeed $6$.
    As $triangle ABC$ covers $frac640$ of the upper hemisphere, its area is:



    $$A_texttriangle = frac640timesfrac12times 4pi r^2 = frac120pi$$



    $blacksquare$






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 5




      This has got to be the correct answer. Arnold's finest joke.
      – PatrickT
      Aug 27 '16 at 7:21






    • 1




      i have edited a little thanks
      – Bhaskara-III
      Sep 21 '16 at 10:33






    • 1




      It is one of several different possible non-Euclidian answers.
      – Klaws
      Jan 26 at 16:07














    up vote
    21
    down vote













    Non-Euclidian triangle on a sphere



    Here a non-Euclidian answer to the question



    The depicted sphere has a circumference of length 40, and thus a radius of $frac20pi$. The points $A$ and $B$ are located on the equator, and $C$ is located on a pole.



    Now $triangle ABC$ is a right triangle (it even has two right angles), since all meridians intersect the equator perpendicularly.



    Define $AC$ to be the hypothenusa, with length $10$. The height, being the shortest distance from $B$ to its hypothenusa $AC$ is then indeed $6$.
    As $triangle ABC$ covers $frac640$ of the upper hemisphere, its area is:



    $$A_texttriangle = frac640timesfrac12times 4pi r^2 = frac120pi$$



    $blacksquare$






    share|cite|improve this answer


















    • 5




      This has got to be the correct answer. Arnold's finest joke.
      – PatrickT
      Aug 27 '16 at 7:21






    • 1




      i have edited a little thanks
      – Bhaskara-III
      Sep 21 '16 at 10:33






    • 1




      It is one of several different possible non-Euclidian answers.
      – Klaws
      Jan 26 at 16:07












    up vote
    21
    down vote










    up vote
    21
    down vote









    Non-Euclidian triangle on a sphere



    Here a non-Euclidian answer to the question



    The depicted sphere has a circumference of length 40, and thus a radius of $frac20pi$. The points $A$ and $B$ are located on the equator, and $C$ is located on a pole.



    Now $triangle ABC$ is a right triangle (it even has two right angles), since all meridians intersect the equator perpendicularly.



    Define $AC$ to be the hypothenusa, with length $10$. The height, being the shortest distance from $B$ to its hypothenusa $AC$ is then indeed $6$.
    As $triangle ABC$ covers $frac640$ of the upper hemisphere, its area is:



    $$A_texttriangle = frac640timesfrac12times 4pi r^2 = frac120pi$$



    $blacksquare$






    share|cite|improve this answer














    Non-Euclidian triangle on a sphere



    Here a non-Euclidian answer to the question



    The depicted sphere has a circumference of length 40, and thus a radius of $frac20pi$. The points $A$ and $B$ are located on the equator, and $C$ is located on a pole.



    Now $triangle ABC$ is a right triangle (it even has two right angles), since all meridians intersect the equator perpendicularly.



    Define $AC$ to be the hypothenusa, with length $10$. The height, being the shortest distance from $B$ to its hypothenusa $AC$ is then indeed $6$.
    As $triangle ABC$ covers $frac640$ of the upper hemisphere, its area is:



    $$A_texttriangle = frac640timesfrac12times 4pi r^2 = frac120pi$$



    $blacksquare$







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Dec 30 '16 at 2:04

























    answered Apr 26 '16 at 22:55









    Job Bouwman

    856511




    856511







    • 5




      This has got to be the correct answer. Arnold's finest joke.
      – PatrickT
      Aug 27 '16 at 7:21






    • 1




      i have edited a little thanks
      – Bhaskara-III
      Sep 21 '16 at 10:33






    • 1




      It is one of several different possible non-Euclidian answers.
      – Klaws
      Jan 26 at 16:07












    • 5




      This has got to be the correct answer. Arnold's finest joke.
      – PatrickT
      Aug 27 '16 at 7:21






    • 1




      i have edited a little thanks
      – Bhaskara-III
      Sep 21 '16 at 10:33






    • 1




      It is one of several different possible non-Euclidian answers.
      – Klaws
      Jan 26 at 16:07







    5




    5




    This has got to be the correct answer. Arnold's finest joke.
    – PatrickT
    Aug 27 '16 at 7:21




    This has got to be the correct answer. Arnold's finest joke.
    – PatrickT
    Aug 27 '16 at 7:21




    1




    1




    i have edited a little thanks
    – Bhaskara-III
    Sep 21 '16 at 10:33




    i have edited a little thanks
    – Bhaskara-III
    Sep 21 '16 at 10:33




    1




    1




    It is one of several different possible non-Euclidian answers.
    – Klaws
    Jan 26 at 16:07




    It is one of several different possible non-Euclidian answers.
    – Klaws
    Jan 26 at 16:07










    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Let $ABC$ be a right angled triangle with hypotenuse $AC=10$, base $BA=y$(say) and perpendicular $CB=x$ (say). Drop perpendicular $BD=6$ (if it exists) on $AB$. It is easy to see that $Delta ABCsim Delta ADB$ then using ratios,



    $fraczy=frac6x=fracy10$



    From last two ratios, $xy=60$



    Also $x^2+y^2=10^2$ as $ABC$ is right angled at $B$.



    This gives $x^2+(60/x)^2=100$ or $x^4-100x^2+3600=0$ which has no real roots.






    share|cite|improve this answer
























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Let $ABC$ be a right angled triangle with hypotenuse $AC=10$, base $BA=y$(say) and perpendicular $CB=x$ (say). Drop perpendicular $BD=6$ (if it exists) on $AB$. It is easy to see that $Delta ABCsim Delta ADB$ then using ratios,



      $fraczy=frac6x=fracy10$



      From last two ratios, $xy=60$



      Also $x^2+y^2=10^2$ as $ABC$ is right angled at $B$.



      This gives $x^2+(60/x)^2=100$ or $x^4-100x^2+3600=0$ which has no real roots.






      share|cite|improve this answer






















        up vote
        1
        down vote










        up vote
        1
        down vote









        Let $ABC$ be a right angled triangle with hypotenuse $AC=10$, base $BA=y$(say) and perpendicular $CB=x$ (say). Drop perpendicular $BD=6$ (if it exists) on $AB$. It is easy to see that $Delta ABCsim Delta ADB$ then using ratios,



        $fraczy=frac6x=fracy10$



        From last two ratios, $xy=60$



        Also $x^2+y^2=10^2$ as $ABC$ is right angled at $B$.



        This gives $x^2+(60/x)^2=100$ or $x^4-100x^2+3600=0$ which has no real roots.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        Let $ABC$ be a right angled triangle with hypotenuse $AC=10$, base $BA=y$(say) and perpendicular $CB=x$ (say). Drop perpendicular $BD=6$ (if it exists) on $AB$. It is easy to see that $Delta ABCsim Delta ADB$ then using ratios,



        $fraczy=frac6x=fracy10$



        From last two ratios, $xy=60$



        Also $x^2+y^2=10^2$ as $ABC$ is right angled at $B$.



        This gives $x^2+(60/x)^2=100$ or $x^4-100x^2+3600=0$ which has no real roots.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Jan 14 '17 at 14:29









        Mathlover

        3,6631021




        3,6631021




















            up vote
            0
            down vote













            This is from a paper full of trick questions, so likely, is criticizing the American students. The crux of the problem is whether the discrepancy is noticed, and how it is handled.



            In middle school, kids are taught a simplified formula,
            triangle area = 1/2 * b * h, or area equals base times height.



            In Geometry, the full version is taught, A = 1/2 * b * a ==> area = 1/2 * base (any side of triangle) * altitude (line perpendicular to base and going to opposite vertex). The definitions of base and altitude are critical and repeatedly taught. They have been standard since the time of Euclid, but teaching the simplified version causes confusion.



            Using this formula, the 30 inches square area would be true for a triangle with hypotenuse of 10 and corresponding altitude of 6.



            Kids are taught that the sides of a right triangle with hypotenuse length 10 and a side of 6 is a Pythagorian Triple, 6:8:10. For this 6:8:10 triangle, 6 and 8 are perpendicular and thus altitudes of each other, the area = 1/2 * 6 * 8 = 24. The altitude for the hypotenuse can be found by area = 24 = 1/2 * 10 * altitude, and altitude = 4.8 inches.



            Thus, using simple tools taught to the students, the "altitude 6" triangle cannot be a right triangle, since the right triangle with side 6 and hypotenuse 10 has a side of 6, not the altitude to the hypotenuse. Expecting complicated proofs from secondary students is unreasonable, but applying the Pythagorean Theorem and area formulae are standard.



            The typical student probably sees the 6 and 10 as parts of a Pythagorean Triple and "knows" it is a right triangle, then finds the obvious area without further thought. Thus, answering the question as 30 could imply sloppy work or lack of knowledge or understanding.



            Alternately, it could be that the American students saw the discrepancy, and made a judgement call on how to answer a test question, assuming a typographical error.



            PS, Yuan's inscribing the triangle in a circle to determine the maximum possible altitude to the hypotenuse is simple, brilliant, and uses concepts taught in Geometry!






            share|cite|improve this answer


















            • 3




              It would be better to not use abbreviations so that your answer is clearer. Also MathJax.
              – 6005
              Dec 31 '15 at 6:55







            • 11




              There are many right triangles with hypotenuse $10$ but the legs not $6$, $8$.
              – user236182
              Dec 31 '15 at 8:57










            • @user but none of them have integer-sized legs
              – John Dvorak
              Dec 31 '15 at 12:01






            • 6




              @JanDvorak the question doesn't mention integer-sized legs.
              – IanF1
              Dec 31 '15 at 15:56










            • @ian indeed, but integer-sized legs are what most students expect. Not valid reasoning, but some students might have followed it anyways.
              – John Dvorak
              Dec 31 '15 at 15:59














            up vote
            0
            down vote













            This is from a paper full of trick questions, so likely, is criticizing the American students. The crux of the problem is whether the discrepancy is noticed, and how it is handled.



            In middle school, kids are taught a simplified formula,
            triangle area = 1/2 * b * h, or area equals base times height.



            In Geometry, the full version is taught, A = 1/2 * b * a ==> area = 1/2 * base (any side of triangle) * altitude (line perpendicular to base and going to opposite vertex). The definitions of base and altitude are critical and repeatedly taught. They have been standard since the time of Euclid, but teaching the simplified version causes confusion.



            Using this formula, the 30 inches square area would be true for a triangle with hypotenuse of 10 and corresponding altitude of 6.



            Kids are taught that the sides of a right triangle with hypotenuse length 10 and a side of 6 is a Pythagorian Triple, 6:8:10. For this 6:8:10 triangle, 6 and 8 are perpendicular and thus altitudes of each other, the area = 1/2 * 6 * 8 = 24. The altitude for the hypotenuse can be found by area = 24 = 1/2 * 10 * altitude, and altitude = 4.8 inches.



            Thus, using simple tools taught to the students, the "altitude 6" triangle cannot be a right triangle, since the right triangle with side 6 and hypotenuse 10 has a side of 6, not the altitude to the hypotenuse. Expecting complicated proofs from secondary students is unreasonable, but applying the Pythagorean Theorem and area formulae are standard.



            The typical student probably sees the 6 and 10 as parts of a Pythagorean Triple and "knows" it is a right triangle, then finds the obvious area without further thought. Thus, answering the question as 30 could imply sloppy work or lack of knowledge or understanding.



            Alternately, it could be that the American students saw the discrepancy, and made a judgement call on how to answer a test question, assuming a typographical error.



            PS, Yuan's inscribing the triangle in a circle to determine the maximum possible altitude to the hypotenuse is simple, brilliant, and uses concepts taught in Geometry!






            share|cite|improve this answer


















            • 3




              It would be better to not use abbreviations so that your answer is clearer. Also MathJax.
              – 6005
              Dec 31 '15 at 6:55







            • 11




              There are many right triangles with hypotenuse $10$ but the legs not $6$, $8$.
              – user236182
              Dec 31 '15 at 8:57










            • @user but none of them have integer-sized legs
              – John Dvorak
              Dec 31 '15 at 12:01






            • 6




              @JanDvorak the question doesn't mention integer-sized legs.
              – IanF1
              Dec 31 '15 at 15:56










            • @ian indeed, but integer-sized legs are what most students expect. Not valid reasoning, but some students might have followed it anyways.
              – John Dvorak
              Dec 31 '15 at 15:59












            up vote
            0
            down vote










            up vote
            0
            down vote









            This is from a paper full of trick questions, so likely, is criticizing the American students. The crux of the problem is whether the discrepancy is noticed, and how it is handled.



            In middle school, kids are taught a simplified formula,
            triangle area = 1/2 * b * h, or area equals base times height.



            In Geometry, the full version is taught, A = 1/2 * b * a ==> area = 1/2 * base (any side of triangle) * altitude (line perpendicular to base and going to opposite vertex). The definitions of base and altitude are critical and repeatedly taught. They have been standard since the time of Euclid, but teaching the simplified version causes confusion.



            Using this formula, the 30 inches square area would be true for a triangle with hypotenuse of 10 and corresponding altitude of 6.



            Kids are taught that the sides of a right triangle with hypotenuse length 10 and a side of 6 is a Pythagorian Triple, 6:8:10. For this 6:8:10 triangle, 6 and 8 are perpendicular and thus altitudes of each other, the area = 1/2 * 6 * 8 = 24. The altitude for the hypotenuse can be found by area = 24 = 1/2 * 10 * altitude, and altitude = 4.8 inches.



            Thus, using simple tools taught to the students, the "altitude 6" triangle cannot be a right triangle, since the right triangle with side 6 and hypotenuse 10 has a side of 6, not the altitude to the hypotenuse. Expecting complicated proofs from secondary students is unreasonable, but applying the Pythagorean Theorem and area formulae are standard.



            The typical student probably sees the 6 and 10 as parts of a Pythagorean Triple and "knows" it is a right triangle, then finds the obvious area without further thought. Thus, answering the question as 30 could imply sloppy work or lack of knowledge or understanding.



            Alternately, it could be that the American students saw the discrepancy, and made a judgement call on how to answer a test question, assuming a typographical error.



            PS, Yuan's inscribing the triangle in a circle to determine the maximum possible altitude to the hypotenuse is simple, brilliant, and uses concepts taught in Geometry!






            share|cite|improve this answer














            This is from a paper full of trick questions, so likely, is criticizing the American students. The crux of the problem is whether the discrepancy is noticed, and how it is handled.



            In middle school, kids are taught a simplified formula,
            triangle area = 1/2 * b * h, or area equals base times height.



            In Geometry, the full version is taught, A = 1/2 * b * a ==> area = 1/2 * base (any side of triangle) * altitude (line perpendicular to base and going to opposite vertex). The definitions of base and altitude are critical and repeatedly taught. They have been standard since the time of Euclid, but teaching the simplified version causes confusion.



            Using this formula, the 30 inches square area would be true for a triangle with hypotenuse of 10 and corresponding altitude of 6.



            Kids are taught that the sides of a right triangle with hypotenuse length 10 and a side of 6 is a Pythagorian Triple, 6:8:10. For this 6:8:10 triangle, 6 and 8 are perpendicular and thus altitudes of each other, the area = 1/2 * 6 * 8 = 24. The altitude for the hypotenuse can be found by area = 24 = 1/2 * 10 * altitude, and altitude = 4.8 inches.



            Thus, using simple tools taught to the students, the "altitude 6" triangle cannot be a right triangle, since the right triangle with side 6 and hypotenuse 10 has a side of 6, not the altitude to the hypotenuse. Expecting complicated proofs from secondary students is unreasonable, but applying the Pythagorean Theorem and area formulae are standard.



            The typical student probably sees the 6 and 10 as parts of a Pythagorean Triple and "knows" it is a right triangle, then finds the obvious area without further thought. Thus, answering the question as 30 could imply sloppy work or lack of knowledge or understanding.



            Alternately, it could be that the American students saw the discrepancy, and made a judgement call on how to answer a test question, assuming a typographical error.



            PS, Yuan's inscribing the triangle in a circle to determine the maximum possible altitude to the hypotenuse is simple, brilliant, and uses concepts taught in Geometry!







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            edited Jan 1 '16 at 0:15

























            answered Dec 31 '15 at 6:51









            D. Fraser

            871




            871







            • 3




              It would be better to not use abbreviations so that your answer is clearer. Also MathJax.
              – 6005
              Dec 31 '15 at 6:55







            • 11




              There are many right triangles with hypotenuse $10$ but the legs not $6$, $8$.
              – user236182
              Dec 31 '15 at 8:57










            • @user but none of them have integer-sized legs
              – John Dvorak
              Dec 31 '15 at 12:01






            • 6




              @JanDvorak the question doesn't mention integer-sized legs.
              – IanF1
              Dec 31 '15 at 15:56










            • @ian indeed, but integer-sized legs are what most students expect. Not valid reasoning, but some students might have followed it anyways.
              – John Dvorak
              Dec 31 '15 at 15:59












            • 3




              It would be better to not use abbreviations so that your answer is clearer. Also MathJax.
              – 6005
              Dec 31 '15 at 6:55







            • 11




              There are many right triangles with hypotenuse $10$ but the legs not $6$, $8$.
              – user236182
              Dec 31 '15 at 8:57










            • @user but none of them have integer-sized legs
              – John Dvorak
              Dec 31 '15 at 12:01






            • 6




              @JanDvorak the question doesn't mention integer-sized legs.
              – IanF1
              Dec 31 '15 at 15:56










            • @ian indeed, but integer-sized legs are what most students expect. Not valid reasoning, but some students might have followed it anyways.
              – John Dvorak
              Dec 31 '15 at 15:59







            3




            3




            It would be better to not use abbreviations so that your answer is clearer. Also MathJax.
            – 6005
            Dec 31 '15 at 6:55





            It would be better to not use abbreviations so that your answer is clearer. Also MathJax.
            – 6005
            Dec 31 '15 at 6:55





            11




            11




            There are many right triangles with hypotenuse $10$ but the legs not $6$, $8$.
            – user236182
            Dec 31 '15 at 8:57




            There are many right triangles with hypotenuse $10$ but the legs not $6$, $8$.
            – user236182
            Dec 31 '15 at 8:57












            @user but none of them have integer-sized legs
            – John Dvorak
            Dec 31 '15 at 12:01




            @user but none of them have integer-sized legs
            – John Dvorak
            Dec 31 '15 at 12:01




            6




            6




            @JanDvorak the question doesn't mention integer-sized legs.
            – IanF1
            Dec 31 '15 at 15:56




            @JanDvorak the question doesn't mention integer-sized legs.
            – IanF1
            Dec 31 '15 at 15:56












            @ian indeed, but integer-sized legs are what most students expect. Not valid reasoning, but some students might have followed it anyways.
            – John Dvorak
            Dec 31 '15 at 15:59




            @ian indeed, but integer-sized legs are what most students expect. Not valid reasoning, but some students might have followed it anyways.
            – John Dvorak
            Dec 31 '15 at 15:59





            protected by Asaf Karagila♦ Jan 1 '16 at 15:12



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