Characterization of stable theories
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
Let $kappa$ be an infinite cardinal. A theory $T$ is called $kappa$-stable if for all model $Mmodels T$ and all $Asubset M$ with $|A|leq kappa$ we have $|S_n^M(A)|leq kappa$.
A theory $T$ is called stable if it is $kappa$-stable for some infinite cardinal $kappa$.
Question. Is there any characterization for stable theories in terms of non-forking independence relation similar to Kim-Pillay characterization for simple theories?
logic model-theory
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
Let $kappa$ be an infinite cardinal. A theory $T$ is called $kappa$-stable if for all model $Mmodels T$ and all $Asubset M$ with $|A|leq kappa$ we have $|S_n^M(A)|leq kappa$.
A theory $T$ is called stable if it is $kappa$-stable for some infinite cardinal $kappa$.
Question. Is there any characterization for stable theories in terms of non-forking independence relation similar to Kim-Pillay characterization for simple theories?
logic model-theory
What is $S^M_n(A)$?
â Taroccoesbrocco
Aug 12 at 8:44
$S_n^M(A)= p : p$ is a complete type over $ A $
â Lajos
Aug 12 at 13:49
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
Let $kappa$ be an infinite cardinal. A theory $T$ is called $kappa$-stable if for all model $Mmodels T$ and all $Asubset M$ with $|A|leq kappa$ we have $|S_n^M(A)|leq kappa$.
A theory $T$ is called stable if it is $kappa$-stable for some infinite cardinal $kappa$.
Question. Is there any characterization for stable theories in terms of non-forking independence relation similar to Kim-Pillay characterization for simple theories?
logic model-theory
Let $kappa$ be an infinite cardinal. A theory $T$ is called $kappa$-stable if for all model $Mmodels T$ and all $Asubset M$ with $|A|leq kappa$ we have $|S_n^M(A)|leq kappa$.
A theory $T$ is called stable if it is $kappa$-stable for some infinite cardinal $kappa$.
Question. Is there any characterization for stable theories in terms of non-forking independence relation similar to Kim-Pillay characterization for simple theories?
logic model-theory
asked Aug 12 at 0:20
Lajos
936
936
What is $S^M_n(A)$?
â Taroccoesbrocco
Aug 12 at 8:44
$S_n^M(A)= p : p$ is a complete type over $ A $
â Lajos
Aug 12 at 13:49
add a comment |Â
What is $S^M_n(A)$?
â Taroccoesbrocco
Aug 12 at 8:44
$S_n^M(A)= p : p$ is a complete type over $ A $
â Lajos
Aug 12 at 13:49
What is $S^M_n(A)$?
â Taroccoesbrocco
Aug 12 at 8:44
What is $S^M_n(A)$?
â Taroccoesbrocco
Aug 12 at 8:44
$S_n^M(A)= p : p$ is a complete type over $ A $
â Lajos
Aug 12 at 13:49
$S_n^M(A)= p : p$ is a complete type over $ A $
â Lajos
Aug 12 at 13:49
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
Yes. The easy way to see this uses the characterization of stable theories as those simple theories for which non-forking independence satisifies stationarity over models.
Stationarity: For any model $M$ and any set $B$, if $a$ is independent from $B$ over $M$, $a'$ is independent from $B$ over $M$, and $texttp(a/M) = texttp(a'/M)$, then $texttp(a/MB) = texttp(a'/MB)$.
In other words (together with the extension property), any type over $M$ has a unique independent extension to a type over $MB$.
So you can obviously characterize non-forking independence in stable theories by just taking the Kim-Pillay characterization of non-forking independence in simple theories and adding stationarity over models.
Actually, you can get away with fewer axioms than this; in particular, stationarity over models gives you the independence theorem over models for free. So there are various lists of axioms characterizing non-forking in stable theories:
- You can find a stable variant of the Kim-Pillay axioms in Casanovas's book Simple Theories and Hyperimaginaries, Definition 12.2 and Theorem 12.22.
- The fact that non-forking independence in stable theories can be axiomatically characterized may have first been noticed by Harnik and Harrington (long before Kim and Pillay started studying simple theories), see Axioms 0-3 and Theorem 5.8 in their paper Fundamentals of Forking.
- A more modern presentation of the Harnik and Harrington theorem is Theorem 8.5.10 in Tent and Ziegler's book A Course in Model Theory.
Thank you very much Alex. Is there any characterization for the other unstable classes for instance NSOP1, NTP1, NSOP3 and etc in terms of non-dividing independence? Also thanks for introducing forkinganddividing.com to me. It's a nice website.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:14
@Lajos These questions are at the forefront of current research. Kaplan and Ramsey recently made a breakthrough by showing that NSOP1 can be characterized, not by non-forking or non-dividing independence, but by a generalization called Kim independence. See their paper here: arxiv.org/abs/1702.03894 in particular Theorem 9.1.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 13 at 15:19
Thanks a lot for your helpful comment.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:27
Does the non-forking independence relation have a property that holds in strongly minimal theories but does not hold in stable theories?
â Lajos
Aug 14 at 14:31
@Lajos Well, in a strongly minimal theory, you can characterize forking in terms of algebraic dimension, and that characterization doesn't hold in an arbitrary stable theory. So in that sense yes. But to me that characterization has a different flavor than the usual kind of abstract properties like local character or stationarity.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 14 at 14:34
 |Â
show 6 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
Yes. The easy way to see this uses the characterization of stable theories as those simple theories for which non-forking independence satisifies stationarity over models.
Stationarity: For any model $M$ and any set $B$, if $a$ is independent from $B$ over $M$, $a'$ is independent from $B$ over $M$, and $texttp(a/M) = texttp(a'/M)$, then $texttp(a/MB) = texttp(a'/MB)$.
In other words (together with the extension property), any type over $M$ has a unique independent extension to a type over $MB$.
So you can obviously characterize non-forking independence in stable theories by just taking the Kim-Pillay characterization of non-forking independence in simple theories and adding stationarity over models.
Actually, you can get away with fewer axioms than this; in particular, stationarity over models gives you the independence theorem over models for free. So there are various lists of axioms characterizing non-forking in stable theories:
- You can find a stable variant of the Kim-Pillay axioms in Casanovas's book Simple Theories and Hyperimaginaries, Definition 12.2 and Theorem 12.22.
- The fact that non-forking independence in stable theories can be axiomatically characterized may have first been noticed by Harnik and Harrington (long before Kim and Pillay started studying simple theories), see Axioms 0-3 and Theorem 5.8 in their paper Fundamentals of Forking.
- A more modern presentation of the Harnik and Harrington theorem is Theorem 8.5.10 in Tent and Ziegler's book A Course in Model Theory.
Thank you very much Alex. Is there any characterization for the other unstable classes for instance NSOP1, NTP1, NSOP3 and etc in terms of non-dividing independence? Also thanks for introducing forkinganddividing.com to me. It's a nice website.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:14
@Lajos These questions are at the forefront of current research. Kaplan and Ramsey recently made a breakthrough by showing that NSOP1 can be characterized, not by non-forking or non-dividing independence, but by a generalization called Kim independence. See their paper here: arxiv.org/abs/1702.03894 in particular Theorem 9.1.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 13 at 15:19
Thanks a lot for your helpful comment.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:27
Does the non-forking independence relation have a property that holds in strongly minimal theories but does not hold in stable theories?
â Lajos
Aug 14 at 14:31
@Lajos Well, in a strongly minimal theory, you can characterize forking in terms of algebraic dimension, and that characterization doesn't hold in an arbitrary stable theory. So in that sense yes. But to me that characterization has a different flavor than the usual kind of abstract properties like local character or stationarity.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 14 at 14:34
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
Yes. The easy way to see this uses the characterization of stable theories as those simple theories for which non-forking independence satisifies stationarity over models.
Stationarity: For any model $M$ and any set $B$, if $a$ is independent from $B$ over $M$, $a'$ is independent from $B$ over $M$, and $texttp(a/M) = texttp(a'/M)$, then $texttp(a/MB) = texttp(a'/MB)$.
In other words (together with the extension property), any type over $M$ has a unique independent extension to a type over $MB$.
So you can obviously characterize non-forking independence in stable theories by just taking the Kim-Pillay characterization of non-forking independence in simple theories and adding stationarity over models.
Actually, you can get away with fewer axioms than this; in particular, stationarity over models gives you the independence theorem over models for free. So there are various lists of axioms characterizing non-forking in stable theories:
- You can find a stable variant of the Kim-Pillay axioms in Casanovas's book Simple Theories and Hyperimaginaries, Definition 12.2 and Theorem 12.22.
- The fact that non-forking independence in stable theories can be axiomatically characterized may have first been noticed by Harnik and Harrington (long before Kim and Pillay started studying simple theories), see Axioms 0-3 and Theorem 5.8 in their paper Fundamentals of Forking.
- A more modern presentation of the Harnik and Harrington theorem is Theorem 8.5.10 in Tent and Ziegler's book A Course in Model Theory.
Thank you very much Alex. Is there any characterization for the other unstable classes for instance NSOP1, NTP1, NSOP3 and etc in terms of non-dividing independence? Also thanks for introducing forkinganddividing.com to me. It's a nice website.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:14
@Lajos These questions are at the forefront of current research. Kaplan and Ramsey recently made a breakthrough by showing that NSOP1 can be characterized, not by non-forking or non-dividing independence, but by a generalization called Kim independence. See their paper here: arxiv.org/abs/1702.03894 in particular Theorem 9.1.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 13 at 15:19
Thanks a lot for your helpful comment.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:27
Does the non-forking independence relation have a property that holds in strongly minimal theories but does not hold in stable theories?
â Lajos
Aug 14 at 14:31
@Lajos Well, in a strongly minimal theory, you can characterize forking in terms of algebraic dimension, and that characterization doesn't hold in an arbitrary stable theory. So in that sense yes. But to me that characterization has a different flavor than the usual kind of abstract properties like local character or stationarity.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 14 at 14:34
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
Yes. The easy way to see this uses the characterization of stable theories as those simple theories for which non-forking independence satisifies stationarity over models.
Stationarity: For any model $M$ and any set $B$, if $a$ is independent from $B$ over $M$, $a'$ is independent from $B$ over $M$, and $texttp(a/M) = texttp(a'/M)$, then $texttp(a/MB) = texttp(a'/MB)$.
In other words (together with the extension property), any type over $M$ has a unique independent extension to a type over $MB$.
So you can obviously characterize non-forking independence in stable theories by just taking the Kim-Pillay characterization of non-forking independence in simple theories and adding stationarity over models.
Actually, you can get away with fewer axioms than this; in particular, stationarity over models gives you the independence theorem over models for free. So there are various lists of axioms characterizing non-forking in stable theories:
- You can find a stable variant of the Kim-Pillay axioms in Casanovas's book Simple Theories and Hyperimaginaries, Definition 12.2 and Theorem 12.22.
- The fact that non-forking independence in stable theories can be axiomatically characterized may have first been noticed by Harnik and Harrington (long before Kim and Pillay started studying simple theories), see Axioms 0-3 and Theorem 5.8 in their paper Fundamentals of Forking.
- A more modern presentation of the Harnik and Harrington theorem is Theorem 8.5.10 in Tent and Ziegler's book A Course in Model Theory.
Yes. The easy way to see this uses the characterization of stable theories as those simple theories for which non-forking independence satisifies stationarity over models.
Stationarity: For any model $M$ and any set $B$, if $a$ is independent from $B$ over $M$, $a'$ is independent from $B$ over $M$, and $texttp(a/M) = texttp(a'/M)$, then $texttp(a/MB) = texttp(a'/MB)$.
In other words (together with the extension property), any type over $M$ has a unique independent extension to a type over $MB$.
So you can obviously characterize non-forking independence in stable theories by just taking the Kim-Pillay characterization of non-forking independence in simple theories and adding stationarity over models.
Actually, you can get away with fewer axioms than this; in particular, stationarity over models gives you the independence theorem over models for free. So there are various lists of axioms characterizing non-forking in stable theories:
- You can find a stable variant of the Kim-Pillay axioms in Casanovas's book Simple Theories and Hyperimaginaries, Definition 12.2 and Theorem 12.22.
- The fact that non-forking independence in stable theories can be axiomatically characterized may have first been noticed by Harnik and Harrington (long before Kim and Pillay started studying simple theories), see Axioms 0-3 and Theorem 5.8 in their paper Fundamentals of Forking.
- A more modern presentation of the Harnik and Harrington theorem is Theorem 8.5.10 in Tent and Ziegler's book A Course in Model Theory.
edited Aug 13 at 14:46
answered Aug 12 at 20:41
Alex Kruckman
23.5k22452
23.5k22452
Thank you very much Alex. Is there any characterization for the other unstable classes for instance NSOP1, NTP1, NSOP3 and etc in terms of non-dividing independence? Also thanks for introducing forkinganddividing.com to me. It's a nice website.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:14
@Lajos These questions are at the forefront of current research. Kaplan and Ramsey recently made a breakthrough by showing that NSOP1 can be characterized, not by non-forking or non-dividing independence, but by a generalization called Kim independence. See their paper here: arxiv.org/abs/1702.03894 in particular Theorem 9.1.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 13 at 15:19
Thanks a lot for your helpful comment.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:27
Does the non-forking independence relation have a property that holds in strongly minimal theories but does not hold in stable theories?
â Lajos
Aug 14 at 14:31
@Lajos Well, in a strongly minimal theory, you can characterize forking in terms of algebraic dimension, and that characterization doesn't hold in an arbitrary stable theory. So in that sense yes. But to me that characterization has a different flavor than the usual kind of abstract properties like local character or stationarity.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 14 at 14:34
 |Â
show 6 more comments
Thank you very much Alex. Is there any characterization for the other unstable classes for instance NSOP1, NTP1, NSOP3 and etc in terms of non-dividing independence? Also thanks for introducing forkinganddividing.com to me. It's a nice website.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:14
@Lajos These questions are at the forefront of current research. Kaplan and Ramsey recently made a breakthrough by showing that NSOP1 can be characterized, not by non-forking or non-dividing independence, but by a generalization called Kim independence. See their paper here: arxiv.org/abs/1702.03894 in particular Theorem 9.1.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 13 at 15:19
Thanks a lot for your helpful comment.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:27
Does the non-forking independence relation have a property that holds in strongly minimal theories but does not hold in stable theories?
â Lajos
Aug 14 at 14:31
@Lajos Well, in a strongly minimal theory, you can characterize forking in terms of algebraic dimension, and that characterization doesn't hold in an arbitrary stable theory. So in that sense yes. But to me that characterization has a different flavor than the usual kind of abstract properties like local character or stationarity.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 14 at 14:34
Thank you very much Alex. Is there any characterization for the other unstable classes for instance NSOP1, NTP1, NSOP3 and etc in terms of non-dividing independence? Also thanks for introducing forkinganddividing.com to me. It's a nice website.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:14
Thank you very much Alex. Is there any characterization for the other unstable classes for instance NSOP1, NTP1, NSOP3 and etc in terms of non-dividing independence? Also thanks for introducing forkinganddividing.com to me. It's a nice website.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:14
@Lajos These questions are at the forefront of current research. Kaplan and Ramsey recently made a breakthrough by showing that NSOP1 can be characterized, not by non-forking or non-dividing independence, but by a generalization called Kim independence. See their paper here: arxiv.org/abs/1702.03894 in particular Theorem 9.1.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 13 at 15:19
@Lajos These questions are at the forefront of current research. Kaplan and Ramsey recently made a breakthrough by showing that NSOP1 can be characterized, not by non-forking or non-dividing independence, but by a generalization called Kim independence. See their paper here: arxiv.org/abs/1702.03894 in particular Theorem 9.1.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 13 at 15:19
Thanks a lot for your helpful comment.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:27
Thanks a lot for your helpful comment.
â Lajos
Aug 13 at 15:27
Does the non-forking independence relation have a property that holds in strongly minimal theories but does not hold in stable theories?
â Lajos
Aug 14 at 14:31
Does the non-forking independence relation have a property that holds in strongly minimal theories but does not hold in stable theories?
â Lajos
Aug 14 at 14:31
@Lajos Well, in a strongly minimal theory, you can characterize forking in terms of algebraic dimension, and that characterization doesn't hold in an arbitrary stable theory. So in that sense yes. But to me that characterization has a different flavor than the usual kind of abstract properties like local character or stationarity.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 14 at 14:34
@Lajos Well, in a strongly minimal theory, you can characterize forking in terms of algebraic dimension, and that characterization doesn't hold in an arbitrary stable theory. So in that sense yes. But to me that characterization has a different flavor than the usual kind of abstract properties like local character or stationarity.
â Alex Kruckman
Aug 14 at 14:34
 |Â
show 6 more comments
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2879872%2fcharacterization-of-stable-theories%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
What is $S^M_n(A)$?
â Taroccoesbrocco
Aug 12 at 8:44
$S_n^M(A)= p : p$ is a complete type over $ A $
â Lajos
Aug 12 at 13:49