Two six-sided dice are rolled (associated with the random variables $X$ and $Y$) . Find the probability distribution of $X | maxX,Y = z$.

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By definition,



$$ P( X = x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).$$ (am I right?)



I've found that



$$P(maxX,Y = z) = frac2z - 136,$$



but I can't find the other expression. I've tried to use Bayes' theorem
and it has lead me to nothing.







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  • 1




    $$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
    – Michael Hardy
    Aug 18 at 3:42















up vote
2
down vote

favorite












By definition,



$$ P( X = x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).$$ (am I right?)



I've found that



$$P(maxX,Y = z) = frac2z - 136,$$



but I can't find the other expression. I've tried to use Bayes' theorem
and it has lead me to nothing.







share|cite|improve this question


















  • 1




    $$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
    – Michael Hardy
    Aug 18 at 3:42













up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite











By definition,



$$ P( X = x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).$$ (am I right?)



I've found that



$$P(maxX,Y = z) = frac2z - 136,$$



but I can't find the other expression. I've tried to use Bayes' theorem
and it has lead me to nothing.







share|cite|improve this question














By definition,



$$ P( X = x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).$$ (am I right?)



I've found that



$$P(maxX,Y = z) = frac2z - 136,$$



but I can't find the other expression. I've tried to use Bayes' theorem
and it has lead me to nothing.









share|cite|improve this question













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edited Aug 18 at 13:40

























asked Aug 18 at 0:10









wesleyla

254




254







  • 1




    $$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
    – Michael Hardy
    Aug 18 at 3:42













  • 1




    $$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
    – Michael Hardy
    Aug 18 at 3:42








1




1




$$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
– Michael Hardy
Aug 18 at 3:42





$$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
– Michael Hardy
Aug 18 at 3:42











3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote



accepted










Assuming X and Y are independent and have a uniform distribution $mathbf X, mathbf Y sim mathcalU1,6$ (which makes sense for two six-sided dices) we should start with the most immediate conclusions we can make:



$$eqalign
P(mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = y) &= P(mathbf X = x) P(mathbf Y = y) \
&= left( 1 over 6right)^2 \
&= 1 over 36$$



for all $x, y in 1, 2, ldots, 6$.



And all possible values for $max mathbf X, mathbf Y $ given $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are:



XY || 1 2 3 4 5 6
====================================
1 || 1 2 3 4 5 6
2 || 2 2 3 4 5 6
3 || 3 3 3 4 5 6
4 || 4 4 4 4 5 6
5 || 5 5 5 5 5 6
6 || 6 6 6 6 6 6


And we know that by definition
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z) = P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X ,mathbf Y = z) over P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y ) = z$$



I'll show a solution with intuition and a purely analytical one.



Solution with intuition



From the table we can calculate the probability of an event $A$ by counting all the possible occurences of $(mathbf X, mathbf Y)$ in which the event $A$ occurs and divide this by 36 since each $(x, y)$ has a probability of $1 over 36$ to occur.



If $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ we can see that if $mathbf X = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can have any of the $z$ values in $ 1, ldots, z $ and if $mathbf X$ has any of the $z-1$ values in $1, ldots, z-1 $ then $mathbf Y = z$. So these are $z + (z - 1) = 2z - 1$ combinations of $( mathbf X , mathbf Y )$ such that $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ and therefore $P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z-1 over 36$.



Now lets check $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z )$.



Clearly if $x geq z$ then $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 0$.



From the table we can see that whenever $x lt z$, then we will have just one combination where $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ because $mathbf Y = z$ is the only possible value of $mathbf Y$. So $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 1 over 36$ for $x lt z$.



And when $x = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can take any of the $z$ values where $y leq z$. So $P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = z over 36$ for $x = z$.



In conclusion:
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z - 1 over 36$$
and
$$P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$



therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$



Purely analytical solution



Since $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are independent
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z)$$
and calculating each summand separately we can see that
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) &= P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
and
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = 1, mathbf Y = z) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z-1, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z-1 over 36
$$
So
$$eqalign
P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf lt z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36 + z-1 over 36 \
&= 2z - 1 over 36
$$
For $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z)$ we can see different cases.



If $x lt z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = z) \
&= 1 over 36
$$
If $x = z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
So
$$ P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$
therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$






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    1
    down vote













    For $xgt z, P=0$.



    For $xlt z, P=frac12z-1$.



    For $x=z, P=fracz2z-1$.



    Here $P=P(X=z,max(X,Y)=z)$.



    This is a result of noting that for each $xlt z$, there is exactly one possibility, while for $x=z$, there are exactly $z$ possibilities leading to $2z-1$ possibilities for $max(X,Y)=z$.






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      up vote
      0
      down vote













      You need to condition the numerator over $Y$, then enumerate. For example if $y=6$, then $z=6$, and $Xsim U(0,6)$. If $y=1$ and $z=1$, then $P(X=1)=1$. The basic formula you want is



      $$
      P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z) = sum_y P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z,Y=y)P(Y=y).
      $$



      Conceptually, if $y<z$ you already know exactly what $x$ is.






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        3 Answers
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        active

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        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

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        active

        oldest

        votes








        up vote
        1
        down vote



        accepted










        Assuming X and Y are independent and have a uniform distribution $mathbf X, mathbf Y sim mathcalU1,6$ (which makes sense for two six-sided dices) we should start with the most immediate conclusions we can make:



        $$eqalign
        P(mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = y) &= P(mathbf X = x) P(mathbf Y = y) \
        &= left( 1 over 6right)^2 \
        &= 1 over 36$$



        for all $x, y in 1, 2, ldots, 6$.



        And all possible values for $max mathbf X, mathbf Y $ given $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are:



        XY || 1 2 3 4 5 6
        ====================================
        1 || 1 2 3 4 5 6
        2 || 2 2 3 4 5 6
        3 || 3 3 3 4 5 6
        4 || 4 4 4 4 5 6
        5 || 5 5 5 5 5 6
        6 || 6 6 6 6 6 6


        And we know that by definition
        $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z) = P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X ,mathbf Y = z) over P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y ) = z$$



        I'll show a solution with intuition and a purely analytical one.



        Solution with intuition



        From the table we can calculate the probability of an event $A$ by counting all the possible occurences of $(mathbf X, mathbf Y)$ in which the event $A$ occurs and divide this by 36 since each $(x, y)$ has a probability of $1 over 36$ to occur.



        If $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ we can see that if $mathbf X = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can have any of the $z$ values in $ 1, ldots, z $ and if $mathbf X$ has any of the $z-1$ values in $1, ldots, z-1 $ then $mathbf Y = z$. So these are $z + (z - 1) = 2z - 1$ combinations of $( mathbf X , mathbf Y )$ such that $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ and therefore $P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z-1 over 36$.



        Now lets check $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z )$.



        Clearly if $x geq z$ then $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 0$.



        From the table we can see that whenever $x lt z$, then we will have just one combination where $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ because $mathbf Y = z$ is the only possible value of $mathbf Y$. So $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 1 over 36$ for $x lt z$.



        And when $x = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can take any of the $z$ values where $y leq z$. So $P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = z over 36$ for $x = z$.



        In conclusion:
        $$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z - 1 over 36$$
        and
        $$P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
        begincases
        1 over 36 & x lt z \
        z over 36 & x = z
        endcases
        $$



        therefore
        $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
        begincases
        1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
        z over 2z - 1 & x = z
        endcases
        $$



        Purely analytical solution



        Since $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are independent
        $$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z)$$
        and calculating each summand separately we can see that
        $$eqalign
        P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) &= P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
        &= z over 36
        $$
        and
        $$eqalign
        P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = 1, mathbf Y = z) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z-1, mathbf Y = z) \
        &= z-1 over 36
        $$
        So
        $$eqalign
        P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf lt z, mathbf Y = z) \
        &= z over 36 + z-1 over 36 \
        &= 2z - 1 over 36
        $$
        For $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z)$ we can see different cases.



        If $x lt z$ then
        $$eqalign
        P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = z) \
        &= 1 over 36
        $$
        If $x = z$ then
        $$eqalign
        P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
        &= z over 36
        $$
        So
        $$ P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
        begincases
        1 over 36 & x lt z \
        z over 36 & x = z
        endcases
        $$
        therefore
        $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
        begincases
        1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
        z over 2z - 1 & x = z
        endcases
        $$






        share|cite|improve this answer


























          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted










          Assuming X and Y are independent and have a uniform distribution $mathbf X, mathbf Y sim mathcalU1,6$ (which makes sense for two six-sided dices) we should start with the most immediate conclusions we can make:



          $$eqalign
          P(mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = y) &= P(mathbf X = x) P(mathbf Y = y) \
          &= left( 1 over 6right)^2 \
          &= 1 over 36$$



          for all $x, y in 1, 2, ldots, 6$.



          And all possible values for $max mathbf X, mathbf Y $ given $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are:



          XY || 1 2 3 4 5 6
          ====================================
          1 || 1 2 3 4 5 6
          2 || 2 2 3 4 5 6
          3 || 3 3 3 4 5 6
          4 || 4 4 4 4 5 6
          5 || 5 5 5 5 5 6
          6 || 6 6 6 6 6 6


          And we know that by definition
          $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z) = P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X ,mathbf Y = z) over P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y ) = z$$



          I'll show a solution with intuition and a purely analytical one.



          Solution with intuition



          From the table we can calculate the probability of an event $A$ by counting all the possible occurences of $(mathbf X, mathbf Y)$ in which the event $A$ occurs and divide this by 36 since each $(x, y)$ has a probability of $1 over 36$ to occur.



          If $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ we can see that if $mathbf X = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can have any of the $z$ values in $ 1, ldots, z $ and if $mathbf X$ has any of the $z-1$ values in $1, ldots, z-1 $ then $mathbf Y = z$. So these are $z + (z - 1) = 2z - 1$ combinations of $( mathbf X , mathbf Y )$ such that $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ and therefore $P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z-1 over 36$.



          Now lets check $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z )$.



          Clearly if $x geq z$ then $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 0$.



          From the table we can see that whenever $x lt z$, then we will have just one combination where $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ because $mathbf Y = z$ is the only possible value of $mathbf Y$. So $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 1 over 36$ for $x lt z$.



          And when $x = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can take any of the $z$ values where $y leq z$. So $P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = z over 36$ for $x = z$.



          In conclusion:
          $$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z - 1 over 36$$
          and
          $$P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
          begincases
          1 over 36 & x lt z \
          z over 36 & x = z
          endcases
          $$



          therefore
          $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
          begincases
          1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
          z over 2z - 1 & x = z
          endcases
          $$



          Purely analytical solution



          Since $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are independent
          $$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z)$$
          and calculating each summand separately we can see that
          $$eqalign
          P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) &= P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
          &= z over 36
          $$
          and
          $$eqalign
          P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = 1, mathbf Y = z) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z-1, mathbf Y = z) \
          &= z-1 over 36
          $$
          So
          $$eqalign
          P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf lt z, mathbf Y = z) \
          &= z over 36 + z-1 over 36 \
          &= 2z - 1 over 36
          $$
          For $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z)$ we can see different cases.



          If $x lt z$ then
          $$eqalign
          P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = z) \
          &= 1 over 36
          $$
          If $x = z$ then
          $$eqalign
          P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
          &= z over 36
          $$
          So
          $$ P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
          begincases
          1 over 36 & x lt z \
          z over 36 & x = z
          endcases
          $$
          therefore
          $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
          begincases
          1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
          z over 2z - 1 & x = z
          endcases
          $$






          share|cite|improve this answer
























            up vote
            1
            down vote



            accepted







            up vote
            1
            down vote



            accepted






            Assuming X and Y are independent and have a uniform distribution $mathbf X, mathbf Y sim mathcalU1,6$ (which makes sense for two six-sided dices) we should start with the most immediate conclusions we can make:



            $$eqalign
            P(mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = y) &= P(mathbf X = x) P(mathbf Y = y) \
            &= left( 1 over 6right)^2 \
            &= 1 over 36$$



            for all $x, y in 1, 2, ldots, 6$.



            And all possible values for $max mathbf X, mathbf Y $ given $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are:



            XY || 1 2 3 4 5 6
            ====================================
            1 || 1 2 3 4 5 6
            2 || 2 2 3 4 5 6
            3 || 3 3 3 4 5 6
            4 || 4 4 4 4 5 6
            5 || 5 5 5 5 5 6
            6 || 6 6 6 6 6 6


            And we know that by definition
            $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z) = P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X ,mathbf Y = z) over P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y ) = z$$



            I'll show a solution with intuition and a purely analytical one.



            Solution with intuition



            From the table we can calculate the probability of an event $A$ by counting all the possible occurences of $(mathbf X, mathbf Y)$ in which the event $A$ occurs and divide this by 36 since each $(x, y)$ has a probability of $1 over 36$ to occur.



            If $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ we can see that if $mathbf X = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can have any of the $z$ values in $ 1, ldots, z $ and if $mathbf X$ has any of the $z-1$ values in $1, ldots, z-1 $ then $mathbf Y = z$. So these are $z + (z - 1) = 2z - 1$ combinations of $( mathbf X , mathbf Y )$ such that $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ and therefore $P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z-1 over 36$.



            Now lets check $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z )$.



            Clearly if $x geq z$ then $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 0$.



            From the table we can see that whenever $x lt z$, then we will have just one combination where $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ because $mathbf Y = z$ is the only possible value of $mathbf Y$. So $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 1 over 36$ for $x lt z$.



            And when $x = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can take any of the $z$ values where $y leq z$. So $P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = z over 36$ for $x = z$.



            In conclusion:
            $$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z - 1 over 36$$
            and
            $$P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
            begincases
            1 over 36 & x lt z \
            z over 36 & x = z
            endcases
            $$



            therefore
            $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
            begincases
            1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
            z over 2z - 1 & x = z
            endcases
            $$



            Purely analytical solution



            Since $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are independent
            $$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z)$$
            and calculating each summand separately we can see that
            $$eqalign
            P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) &= P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
            &= z over 36
            $$
            and
            $$eqalign
            P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = 1, mathbf Y = z) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z-1, mathbf Y = z) \
            &= z-1 over 36
            $$
            So
            $$eqalign
            P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf lt z, mathbf Y = z) \
            &= z over 36 + z-1 over 36 \
            &= 2z - 1 over 36
            $$
            For $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z)$ we can see different cases.



            If $x lt z$ then
            $$eqalign
            P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = z) \
            &= 1 over 36
            $$
            If $x = z$ then
            $$eqalign
            P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
            &= z over 36
            $$
            So
            $$ P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
            begincases
            1 over 36 & x lt z \
            z over 36 & x = z
            endcases
            $$
            therefore
            $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
            begincases
            1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
            z over 2z - 1 & x = z
            endcases
            $$






            share|cite|improve this answer














            Assuming X and Y are independent and have a uniform distribution $mathbf X, mathbf Y sim mathcalU1,6$ (which makes sense for two six-sided dices) we should start with the most immediate conclusions we can make:



            $$eqalign
            P(mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = y) &= P(mathbf X = x) P(mathbf Y = y) \
            &= left( 1 over 6right)^2 \
            &= 1 over 36$$



            for all $x, y in 1, 2, ldots, 6$.



            And all possible values for $max mathbf X, mathbf Y $ given $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are:



            XY || 1 2 3 4 5 6
            ====================================
            1 || 1 2 3 4 5 6
            2 || 2 2 3 4 5 6
            3 || 3 3 3 4 5 6
            4 || 4 4 4 4 5 6
            5 || 5 5 5 5 5 6
            6 || 6 6 6 6 6 6


            And we know that by definition
            $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z) = P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X ,mathbf Y = z) over P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y ) = z$$



            I'll show a solution with intuition and a purely analytical one.



            Solution with intuition



            From the table we can calculate the probability of an event $A$ by counting all the possible occurences of $(mathbf X, mathbf Y)$ in which the event $A$ occurs and divide this by 36 since each $(x, y)$ has a probability of $1 over 36$ to occur.



            If $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ we can see that if $mathbf X = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can have any of the $z$ values in $ 1, ldots, z $ and if $mathbf X$ has any of the $z-1$ values in $1, ldots, z-1 $ then $mathbf Y = z$. So these are $z + (z - 1) = 2z - 1$ combinations of $( mathbf X , mathbf Y )$ such that $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ and therefore $P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z-1 over 36$.



            Now lets check $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z )$.



            Clearly if $x geq z$ then $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 0$.



            From the table we can see that whenever $x lt z$, then we will have just one combination where $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ because $mathbf Y = z$ is the only possible value of $mathbf Y$. So $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 1 over 36$ for $x lt z$.



            And when $x = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can take any of the $z$ values where $y leq z$. So $P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = z over 36$ for $x = z$.



            In conclusion:
            $$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z - 1 over 36$$
            and
            $$P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
            begincases
            1 over 36 & x lt z \
            z over 36 & x = z
            endcases
            $$



            therefore
            $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
            begincases
            1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
            z over 2z - 1 & x = z
            endcases
            $$



            Purely analytical solution



            Since $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are independent
            $$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z)$$
            and calculating each summand separately we can see that
            $$eqalign
            P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) &= P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
            &= z over 36
            $$
            and
            $$eqalign
            P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = 1, mathbf Y = z) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z-1, mathbf Y = z) \
            &= z-1 over 36
            $$
            So
            $$eqalign
            P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf lt z, mathbf Y = z) \
            &= z over 36 + z-1 over 36 \
            &= 2z - 1 over 36
            $$
            For $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z)$ we can see different cases.



            If $x lt z$ then
            $$eqalign
            P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = z) \
            &= 1 over 36
            $$
            If $x = z$ then
            $$eqalign
            P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
            &= z over 36
            $$
            So
            $$ P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
            begincases
            1 over 36 & x lt z \
            z over 36 & x = z
            endcases
            $$
            therefore
            $$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
            begincases
            1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
            z over 2z - 1 & x = z
            endcases
            $$







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Aug 20 at 17:39

























            answered Aug 19 at 6:40









            salvarico

            565




            565




















                up vote
                1
                down vote













                For $xgt z, P=0$.



                For $xlt z, P=frac12z-1$.



                For $x=z, P=fracz2z-1$.



                Here $P=P(X=z,max(X,Y)=z)$.



                This is a result of noting that for each $xlt z$, there is exactly one possibility, while for $x=z$, there are exactly $z$ possibilities leading to $2z-1$ possibilities for $max(X,Y)=z$.






                share|cite|improve this answer


























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote













                  For $xgt z, P=0$.



                  For $xlt z, P=frac12z-1$.



                  For $x=z, P=fracz2z-1$.



                  Here $P=P(X=z,max(X,Y)=z)$.



                  This is a result of noting that for each $xlt z$, there is exactly one possibility, while for $x=z$, there are exactly $z$ possibilities leading to $2z-1$ possibilities for $max(X,Y)=z$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer
























                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote









                    For $xgt z, P=0$.



                    For $xlt z, P=frac12z-1$.



                    For $x=z, P=fracz2z-1$.



                    Here $P=P(X=z,max(X,Y)=z)$.



                    This is a result of noting that for each $xlt z$, there is exactly one possibility, while for $x=z$, there are exactly $z$ possibilities leading to $2z-1$ possibilities for $max(X,Y)=z$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    For $xgt z, P=0$.



                    For $xlt z, P=frac12z-1$.



                    For $x=z, P=fracz2z-1$.



                    Here $P=P(X=z,max(X,Y)=z)$.



                    This is a result of noting that for each $xlt z$, there is exactly one possibility, while for $x=z$, there are exactly $z$ possibilities leading to $2z-1$ possibilities for $max(X,Y)=z$.







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited Aug 18 at 17:00

























                    answered Aug 18 at 0:40









                    herb steinberg

                    1,177210




                    1,177210




















                        up vote
                        0
                        down vote













                        You need to condition the numerator over $Y$, then enumerate. For example if $y=6$, then $z=6$, and $Xsim U(0,6)$. If $y=1$ and $z=1$, then $P(X=1)=1$. The basic formula you want is



                        $$
                        P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z) = sum_y P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z,Y=y)P(Y=y).
                        $$



                        Conceptually, if $y<z$ you already know exactly what $x$ is.






                        share|cite|improve this answer


























                          up vote
                          0
                          down vote













                          You need to condition the numerator over $Y$, then enumerate. For example if $y=6$, then $z=6$, and $Xsim U(0,6)$. If $y=1$ and $z=1$, then $P(X=1)=1$. The basic formula you want is



                          $$
                          P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z) = sum_y P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z,Y=y)P(Y=y).
                          $$



                          Conceptually, if $y<z$ you already know exactly what $x$ is.






                          share|cite|improve this answer
























                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote









                            You need to condition the numerator over $Y$, then enumerate. For example if $y=6$, then $z=6$, and $Xsim U(0,6)$. If $y=1$ and $z=1$, then $P(X=1)=1$. The basic formula you want is



                            $$
                            P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z) = sum_y P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z,Y=y)P(Y=y).
                            $$



                            Conceptually, if $y<z$ you already know exactly what $x$ is.






                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            You need to condition the numerator over $Y$, then enumerate. For example if $y=6$, then $z=6$, and $Xsim U(0,6)$. If $y=1$ and $z=1$, then $P(X=1)=1$. The basic formula you want is



                            $$
                            P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z) = sum_y P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z,Y=y)P(Y=y).
                            $$



                            Conceptually, if $y<z$ you already know exactly what $x$ is.







                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer








                            edited Aug 18 at 3:38









                            Michael Hardy

                            205k23187463




                            205k23187463










                            answered Aug 18 at 0:26









                            NeedsToKnowMoreMaths

                            456




                            456






















                                 

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