Two six-sided dice are rolled (associated with the random variables $X$ and $Y$) . Find the probability distribution of $X | maxX,Y = z$.

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By definition,
$$ P( X = x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).$$ (am I right?)
I've found that
$$P(maxX,Y = z) = frac2z - 136,$$
but I can't find the other expression. I've tried to use Bayes' theorem
and it has lead me to nothing.
probability probability-theory probability-distributions bayes-theorem
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By definition,
$$ P( X = x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).$$ (am I right?)
I've found that
$$P(maxX,Y = z) = frac2z - 136,$$
but I can't find the other expression. I've tried to use Bayes' theorem
and it has lead me to nothing.
probability probability-theory probability-distributions bayes-theorem
1
$$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
â Michael Hardy
Aug 18 at 3:42
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up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
By definition,
$$ P( X = x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).$$ (am I right?)
I've found that
$$P(maxX,Y = z) = frac2z - 136,$$
but I can't find the other expression. I've tried to use Bayes' theorem
and it has lead me to nothing.
probability probability-theory probability-distributions bayes-theorem
By definition,
$$ P( X = x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).$$ (am I right?)
I've found that
$$P(maxX,Y = z) = frac2z - 136,$$
but I can't find the other expression. I've tried to use Bayes' theorem
and it has lead me to nothing.
probability probability-theory probability-distributions bayes-theorem
edited Aug 18 at 13:40
asked Aug 18 at 0:10
wesleyla
254
254
1
$$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
â Michael Hardy
Aug 18 at 3:42
add a comment |Â
1
$$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
â Michael Hardy
Aug 18 at 3:42
1
1
$$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
â Michael Hardy
Aug 18 at 3:42
$$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
â Michael Hardy
Aug 18 at 3:42
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
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Assuming X and Y are independent and have a uniform distribution $mathbf X, mathbf Y sim mathcalU1,6$ (which makes sense for two six-sided dices) we should start with the most immediate conclusions we can make:
$$eqalign
P(mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = y) &= P(mathbf X = x) P(mathbf Y = y) \
&= left( 1 over 6right)^2 \
&= 1 over 36$$
for all $x, y in 1, 2, ldots, 6$.
And all possible values for $max mathbf X, mathbf Y $ given $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are:
XY || 1 2 3 4 5 6
====================================
1 || 1 2 3 4 5 6
2 || 2 2 3 4 5 6
3 || 3 3 3 4 5 6
4 || 4 4 4 4 5 6
5 || 5 5 5 5 5 6
6 || 6 6 6 6 6 6
And we know that by definition
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z) = P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X ,mathbf Y = z) over P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y ) = z$$
I'll show a solution with intuition and a purely analytical one.
Solution with intuition
From the table we can calculate the probability of an event $A$ by counting all the possible occurences of $(mathbf X, mathbf Y)$ in which the event $A$ occurs and divide this by 36 since each $(x, y)$ has a probability of $1 over 36$ to occur.
If $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ we can see that if $mathbf X = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can have any of the $z$ values in $ 1, ldots, z $ and if $mathbf X$ has any of the $z-1$ values in $1, ldots, z-1 $ then $mathbf Y = z$. So these are $z + (z - 1) = 2z - 1$ combinations of $( mathbf X , mathbf Y )$ such that $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ and therefore $P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z-1 over 36$.
Now lets check $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z )$.
Clearly if $x geq z$ then $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 0$.
From the table we can see that whenever $x lt z$, then we will have just one combination where $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ because $mathbf Y = z$ is the only possible value of $mathbf Y$. So $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 1 over 36$ for $x lt z$.
And when $x = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can take any of the $z$ values where $y leq z$. So $P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = z over 36$ for $x = z$.
In conclusion:
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z - 1 over 36$$
and
$$P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$
therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$
Purely analytical solution
Since $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are independent
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z)$$
and calculating each summand separately we can see that
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) &= P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
and
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = 1, mathbf Y = z) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z-1, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z-1 over 36
$$
So
$$eqalign
P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf lt z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36 + z-1 over 36 \
&= 2z - 1 over 36
$$
For $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z)$ we can see different cases.
If $x lt z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = z) \
&= 1 over 36
$$
If $x = z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
So
$$ P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$
therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$
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For $xgt z, P=0$.
For $xlt z, P=frac12z-1$.
For $x=z, P=fracz2z-1$.
Here $P=P(X=z,max(X,Y)=z)$.
This is a result of noting that for each $xlt z$, there is exactly one possibility, while for $x=z$, there are exactly $z$ possibilities leading to $2z-1$ possibilities for $max(X,Y)=z$.
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You need to condition the numerator over $Y$, then enumerate. For example if $y=6$, then $z=6$, and $Xsim U(0,6)$. If $y=1$ and $z=1$, then $P(X=1)=1$. The basic formula you want is
$$
P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z) = sum_y P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z,Y=y)P(Y=y).
$$
Conceptually, if $y<z$ you already know exactly what $x$ is.
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Assuming X and Y are independent and have a uniform distribution $mathbf X, mathbf Y sim mathcalU1,6$ (which makes sense for two six-sided dices) we should start with the most immediate conclusions we can make:
$$eqalign
P(mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = y) &= P(mathbf X = x) P(mathbf Y = y) \
&= left( 1 over 6right)^2 \
&= 1 over 36$$
for all $x, y in 1, 2, ldots, 6$.
And all possible values for $max mathbf X, mathbf Y $ given $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are:
XY || 1 2 3 4 5 6
====================================
1 || 1 2 3 4 5 6
2 || 2 2 3 4 5 6
3 || 3 3 3 4 5 6
4 || 4 4 4 4 5 6
5 || 5 5 5 5 5 6
6 || 6 6 6 6 6 6
And we know that by definition
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z) = P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X ,mathbf Y = z) over P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y ) = z$$
I'll show a solution with intuition and a purely analytical one.
Solution with intuition
From the table we can calculate the probability of an event $A$ by counting all the possible occurences of $(mathbf X, mathbf Y)$ in which the event $A$ occurs and divide this by 36 since each $(x, y)$ has a probability of $1 over 36$ to occur.
If $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ we can see that if $mathbf X = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can have any of the $z$ values in $ 1, ldots, z $ and if $mathbf X$ has any of the $z-1$ values in $1, ldots, z-1 $ then $mathbf Y = z$. So these are $z + (z - 1) = 2z - 1$ combinations of $( mathbf X , mathbf Y )$ such that $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ and therefore $P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z-1 over 36$.
Now lets check $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z )$.
Clearly if $x geq z$ then $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 0$.
From the table we can see that whenever $x lt z$, then we will have just one combination where $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ because $mathbf Y = z$ is the only possible value of $mathbf Y$. So $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 1 over 36$ for $x lt z$.
And when $x = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can take any of the $z$ values where $y leq z$. So $P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = z over 36$ for $x = z$.
In conclusion:
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z - 1 over 36$$
and
$$P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$
therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$
Purely analytical solution
Since $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are independent
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z)$$
and calculating each summand separately we can see that
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) &= P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
and
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = 1, mathbf Y = z) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z-1, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z-1 over 36
$$
So
$$eqalign
P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf lt z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36 + z-1 over 36 \
&= 2z - 1 over 36
$$
For $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z)$ we can see different cases.
If $x lt z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = z) \
&= 1 over 36
$$
If $x = z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
So
$$ P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$
therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Assuming X and Y are independent and have a uniform distribution $mathbf X, mathbf Y sim mathcalU1,6$ (which makes sense for two six-sided dices) we should start with the most immediate conclusions we can make:
$$eqalign
P(mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = y) &= P(mathbf X = x) P(mathbf Y = y) \
&= left( 1 over 6right)^2 \
&= 1 over 36$$
for all $x, y in 1, 2, ldots, 6$.
And all possible values for $max mathbf X, mathbf Y $ given $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are:
XY || 1 2 3 4 5 6
====================================
1 || 1 2 3 4 5 6
2 || 2 2 3 4 5 6
3 || 3 3 3 4 5 6
4 || 4 4 4 4 5 6
5 || 5 5 5 5 5 6
6 || 6 6 6 6 6 6
And we know that by definition
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z) = P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X ,mathbf Y = z) over P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y ) = z$$
I'll show a solution with intuition and a purely analytical one.
Solution with intuition
From the table we can calculate the probability of an event $A$ by counting all the possible occurences of $(mathbf X, mathbf Y)$ in which the event $A$ occurs and divide this by 36 since each $(x, y)$ has a probability of $1 over 36$ to occur.
If $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ we can see that if $mathbf X = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can have any of the $z$ values in $ 1, ldots, z $ and if $mathbf X$ has any of the $z-1$ values in $1, ldots, z-1 $ then $mathbf Y = z$. So these are $z + (z - 1) = 2z - 1$ combinations of $( mathbf X , mathbf Y )$ such that $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ and therefore $P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z-1 over 36$.
Now lets check $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z )$.
Clearly if $x geq z$ then $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 0$.
From the table we can see that whenever $x lt z$, then we will have just one combination where $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ because $mathbf Y = z$ is the only possible value of $mathbf Y$. So $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 1 over 36$ for $x lt z$.
And when $x = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can take any of the $z$ values where $y leq z$. So $P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = z over 36$ for $x = z$.
In conclusion:
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z - 1 over 36$$
and
$$P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$
therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$
Purely analytical solution
Since $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are independent
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z)$$
and calculating each summand separately we can see that
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) &= P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
and
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = 1, mathbf Y = z) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z-1, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z-1 over 36
$$
So
$$eqalign
P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf lt z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36 + z-1 over 36 \
&= 2z - 1 over 36
$$
For $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z)$ we can see different cases.
If $x lt z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = z) \
&= 1 over 36
$$
If $x = z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
So
$$ P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$
therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Assuming X and Y are independent and have a uniform distribution $mathbf X, mathbf Y sim mathcalU1,6$ (which makes sense for two six-sided dices) we should start with the most immediate conclusions we can make:
$$eqalign
P(mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = y) &= P(mathbf X = x) P(mathbf Y = y) \
&= left( 1 over 6right)^2 \
&= 1 over 36$$
for all $x, y in 1, 2, ldots, 6$.
And all possible values for $max mathbf X, mathbf Y $ given $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are:
XY || 1 2 3 4 5 6
====================================
1 || 1 2 3 4 5 6
2 || 2 2 3 4 5 6
3 || 3 3 3 4 5 6
4 || 4 4 4 4 5 6
5 || 5 5 5 5 5 6
6 || 6 6 6 6 6 6
And we know that by definition
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z) = P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X ,mathbf Y = z) over P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y ) = z$$
I'll show a solution with intuition and a purely analytical one.
Solution with intuition
From the table we can calculate the probability of an event $A$ by counting all the possible occurences of $(mathbf X, mathbf Y)$ in which the event $A$ occurs and divide this by 36 since each $(x, y)$ has a probability of $1 over 36$ to occur.
If $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ we can see that if $mathbf X = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can have any of the $z$ values in $ 1, ldots, z $ and if $mathbf X$ has any of the $z-1$ values in $1, ldots, z-1 $ then $mathbf Y = z$. So these are $z + (z - 1) = 2z - 1$ combinations of $( mathbf X , mathbf Y )$ such that $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ and therefore $P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z-1 over 36$.
Now lets check $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z )$.
Clearly if $x geq z$ then $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 0$.
From the table we can see that whenever $x lt z$, then we will have just one combination where $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ because $mathbf Y = z$ is the only possible value of $mathbf Y$. So $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 1 over 36$ for $x lt z$.
And when $x = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can take any of the $z$ values where $y leq z$. So $P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = z over 36$ for $x = z$.
In conclusion:
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z - 1 over 36$$
and
$$P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$
therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$
Purely analytical solution
Since $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are independent
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z)$$
and calculating each summand separately we can see that
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) &= P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
and
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = 1, mathbf Y = z) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z-1, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z-1 over 36
$$
So
$$eqalign
P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf lt z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36 + z-1 over 36 \
&= 2z - 1 over 36
$$
For $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z)$ we can see different cases.
If $x lt z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = z) \
&= 1 over 36
$$
If $x = z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
So
$$ P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$
therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$
Assuming X and Y are independent and have a uniform distribution $mathbf X, mathbf Y sim mathcalU1,6$ (which makes sense for two six-sided dices) we should start with the most immediate conclusions we can make:
$$eqalign
P(mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = y) &= P(mathbf X = x) P(mathbf Y = y) \
&= left( 1 over 6right)^2 \
&= 1 over 36$$
for all $x, y in 1, 2, ldots, 6$.
And all possible values for $max mathbf X, mathbf Y $ given $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are:
XY || 1 2 3 4 5 6
====================================
1 || 1 2 3 4 5 6
2 || 2 2 3 4 5 6
3 || 3 3 3 4 5 6
4 || 4 4 4 4 5 6
5 || 5 5 5 5 5 6
6 || 6 6 6 6 6 6
And we know that by definition
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z) = P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X ,mathbf Y = z) over P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y ) = z$$
I'll show a solution with intuition and a purely analytical one.
Solution with intuition
From the table we can calculate the probability of an event $A$ by counting all the possible occurences of $(mathbf X, mathbf Y)$ in which the event $A$ occurs and divide this by 36 since each $(x, y)$ has a probability of $1 over 36$ to occur.
If $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ we can see that if $mathbf X = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can have any of the $z$ values in $ 1, ldots, z $ and if $mathbf X$ has any of the $z-1$ values in $1, ldots, z-1 $ then $mathbf Y = z$. So these are $z + (z - 1) = 2z - 1$ combinations of $( mathbf X , mathbf Y )$ such that $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ and therefore $P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z-1 over 36$.
Now lets check $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z )$.
Clearly if $x geq z$ then $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 0$.
From the table we can see that whenever $x lt z$, then we will have just one combination where $max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z$ because $mathbf Y = z$ is the only possible value of $mathbf Y$. So $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 1 over 36$ for $x lt z$.
And when $x = z$ then $mathbf Y$ can take any of the $z$ values where $y leq z$. So $P(mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = z over 36$ for $x = z$.
In conclusion:
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = 2z - 1 over 36$$
and
$$P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$
therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$
Purely analytical solution
Since $mathbf X$ and $mathbf Y$ are independent
$$P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) = P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z)$$
and calculating each summand separately we can see that
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) &= P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
and
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X lt z, mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = 1, mathbf Y = z) + cdots + P( mathbf X = z-1, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z-1 over 36
$$
So
$$eqalign
P(max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y leq z) + P( mathbf lt z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36 + z-1 over 36 \
&= 2z - 1 over 36
$$
For $P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X, mathbf Y = z)$ we can see different cases.
If $x lt z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = x, mathbf Y = z) \
&= 1 over 36
$$
If $x = z$ then
$$eqalign
P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) &= P( mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = 1) + cdots + P(mathbf X = z, mathbf Y = z) \
&= z over 36
$$
So
$$ P( mathbf X = x, max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 36 & x lt z \
z over 36 & x = z
endcases
$$
therefore
$$P( mathbf X = x mid max mathbf X , mathbf Y = z) =
begincases
1 over 2z - 1 & x lt z \
z over 2z - 1 & x = z
endcases
$$
edited Aug 20 at 17:39
answered Aug 19 at 6:40
salvarico
565
565
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up vote
1
down vote
For $xgt z, P=0$.
For $xlt z, P=frac12z-1$.
For $x=z, P=fracz2z-1$.
Here $P=P(X=z,max(X,Y)=z)$.
This is a result of noting that for each $xlt z$, there is exactly one possibility, while for $x=z$, there are exactly $z$ possibilities leading to $2z-1$ possibilities for $max(X,Y)=z$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
For $xgt z, P=0$.
For $xlt z, P=frac12z-1$.
For $x=z, P=fracz2z-1$.
Here $P=P(X=z,max(X,Y)=z)$.
This is a result of noting that for each $xlt z$, there is exactly one possibility, while for $x=z$, there are exactly $z$ possibilities leading to $2z-1$ possibilities for $max(X,Y)=z$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
For $xgt z, P=0$.
For $xlt z, P=frac12z-1$.
For $x=z, P=fracz2z-1$.
Here $P=P(X=z,max(X,Y)=z)$.
This is a result of noting that for each $xlt z$, there is exactly one possibility, while for $x=z$, there are exactly $z$ possibilities leading to $2z-1$ possibilities for $max(X,Y)=z$.
For $xgt z, P=0$.
For $xlt z, P=frac12z-1$.
For $x=z, P=fracz2z-1$.
Here $P=P(X=z,max(X,Y)=z)$.
This is a result of noting that for each $xlt z$, there is exactly one possibility, while for $x=z$, there are exactly $z$ possibilities leading to $2z-1$ possibilities for $max(X,Y)=z$.
edited Aug 18 at 17:00
answered Aug 18 at 0:40
herb steinberg
1,177210
1,177210
add a comment |Â
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up vote
0
down vote
You need to condition the numerator over $Y$, then enumerate. For example if $y=6$, then $z=6$, and $Xsim U(0,6)$. If $y=1$ and $z=1$, then $P(X=1)=1$. The basic formula you want is
$$
P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z) = sum_y P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z,Y=y)P(Y=y).
$$
Conceptually, if $y<z$ you already know exactly what $x$ is.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
You need to condition the numerator over $Y$, then enumerate. For example if $y=6$, then $z=6$, and $Xsim U(0,6)$. If $y=1$ and $z=1$, then $P(X=1)=1$. The basic formula you want is
$$
P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z) = sum_y P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z,Y=y)P(Y=y).
$$
Conceptually, if $y<z$ you already know exactly what $x$ is.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
You need to condition the numerator over $Y$, then enumerate. For example if $y=6$, then $z=6$, and $Xsim U(0,6)$. If $y=1$ and $z=1$, then $P(X=1)=1$. The basic formula you want is
$$
P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z) = sum_y P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z,Y=y)P(Y=y).
$$
Conceptually, if $y<z$ you already know exactly what $x$ is.
You need to condition the numerator over $Y$, then enumerate. For example if $y=6$, then $z=6$, and $Xsim U(0,6)$. If $y=1$ and $z=1$, then $P(X=1)=1$. The basic formula you want is
$$
P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z) = sum_y P(X=xmidmax(X,Y)=z,Y=y)P(Y=y).
$$
Conceptually, if $y<z$ you already know exactly what $x$ is.
edited Aug 18 at 3:38
Michael Hardy
205k23187463
205k23187463
answered Aug 18 at 0:26
NeedsToKnowMoreMaths
456
456
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1
$$ requirecancel beginalign textwrong: & xcancelPr( X mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z).vphantomfracdisplaystyle intdisplaystyle int \ \ textright: & Pr( X =x mid maxX,Y = z ) = fracP(X = x, maxX,Y = z )P(max X,Y = z). endalign $$ I.e., this should say $X=x$ rather than just $X. qquad$
â Michael Hardy
Aug 18 at 3:42