Criterion for a basis of a topology

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Here is part of Munkres' book on topology:
I suppose the reader is supposed to use

to prove this. But I don't understand how. The lemma says that if there is a space with a fixed topology, then to show that a set forms a basis, one has to take an open set from the fixed topology and do something. But the order topology is being defined, how can I take an open set and prove that it contains a basis element if I don't know what open sets are yet?
general-topology
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Here is part of Munkres' book on topology:
I suppose the reader is supposed to use

to prove this. But I don't understand how. The lemma says that if there is a space with a fixed topology, then to show that a set forms a basis, one has to take an open set from the fixed topology and do something. But the order topology is being defined, how can I take an open set and prove that it contains a basis element if I don't know what open sets are yet?
general-topology
To step back a bit, one has a fixed topology when all the open sets are known (or, equivalently, when all of its closed sets are known). In that context we can ask whether a certain subset of the open sets do or do not constitute a basis for the topology. That's where the Lemma you cite might come into play. Given that framework, what is your Question? Merely quoting from the Munkres textbook does not fully state a problem to be solved.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 0:53
1
My question is in the last sentence, I believe.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 1:19
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Here is part of Munkres' book on topology:
I suppose the reader is supposed to use

to prove this. But I don't understand how. The lemma says that if there is a space with a fixed topology, then to show that a set forms a basis, one has to take an open set from the fixed topology and do something. But the order topology is being defined, how can I take an open set and prove that it contains a basis element if I don't know what open sets are yet?
general-topology
Here is part of Munkres' book on topology:
I suppose the reader is supposed to use

to prove this. But I don't understand how. The lemma says that if there is a space with a fixed topology, then to show that a set forms a basis, one has to take an open set from the fixed topology and do something. But the order topology is being defined, how can I take an open set and prove that it contains a basis element if I don't know what open sets are yet?
general-topology
general-topology
asked Aug 31 at 0:41
user531587
15710
15710
To step back a bit, one has a fixed topology when all the open sets are known (or, equivalently, when all of its closed sets are known). In that context we can ask whether a certain subset of the open sets do or do not constitute a basis for the topology. That's where the Lemma you cite might come into play. Given that framework, what is your Question? Merely quoting from the Munkres textbook does not fully state a problem to be solved.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 0:53
1
My question is in the last sentence, I believe.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 1:19
add a comment |Â
To step back a bit, one has a fixed topology when all the open sets are known (or, equivalently, when all of its closed sets are known). In that context we can ask whether a certain subset of the open sets do or do not constitute a basis for the topology. That's where the Lemma you cite might come into play. Given that framework, what is your Question? Merely quoting from the Munkres textbook does not fully state a problem to be solved.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 0:53
1
My question is in the last sentence, I believe.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 1:19
To step back a bit, one has a fixed topology when all the open sets are known (or, equivalently, when all of its closed sets are known). In that context we can ask whether a certain subset of the open sets do or do not constitute a basis for the topology. That's where the Lemma you cite might come into play. Given that framework, what is your Question? Merely quoting from the Munkres textbook does not fully state a problem to be solved.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 0:53
To step back a bit, one has a fixed topology when all the open sets are known (or, equivalently, when all of its closed sets are known). In that context we can ask whether a certain subset of the open sets do or do not constitute a basis for the topology. That's where the Lemma you cite might come into play. Given that framework, what is your Question? Merely quoting from the Munkres textbook does not fully state a problem to be solved.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 0:53
1
1
My question is in the last sentence, I believe.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 1:19
My question is in the last sentence, I believe.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 1:19
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
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The requirements for $mathcalBsubseteq mathscrP(X)$ to be a base for some topology on $X$ are (second edition., paragraph 13, page 78):
(1) $bigcup mathcalB = X$, or equivalently for every $x in X$ there is some $B in mathcalB$ such that $x in B$.
(2) For all $B_1, B_2 in mathcalB$, for all $x in B_1 cap B_2$: there exists some $B_3 in mathcalB$ such that $x in B_3 subseteq B_1 cap B_2$.
The lemma 13.2 is not used here: this is to characterise a base for an already given topology, while in the case at hand we want to define a topology by a suitable base.
Munkres suggests to check condition (2) by checking that the set of intervals he describes ($mathcalB$) has the property that if $B_1 , B_2 in mathcalB$ we either have $B_1 cap B_2 in mathcalB$ again (so we can take $B_3 = B_1 cap B_2$) or $emptyset$ (in which case the condition is voidly true as there are no $x in B_1 cap B_2$ to check.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
$mathscr B$ doesn't define a topology on $X$. You need to take arbitrary unions and finite intersections of elements of $mathscr B$ to fulfill the definition of a topology.
$mathscr B$ is a basis for the topology it generates...
Actually, $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as Munkres notes.
But you need to throw in arbitrary unions... $mathscr B$ isn't closed under arbitrary unions.
Thus $mathscr B$ generates a topology on $X$.
Munkres highlights a couple of things to check to be sure $mathscr B$ actually serves as a basis. Since the entire set $X$ must be open, every element $xin X$ has to belong to some set in $mathscr B$. Munkres further asks the reader to check $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as you noted. I don't have my copy of Munkres handy, but it seems likely that a different Lemma than the one the OP has identified was intended to be used.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 1:42
Perhaps... I lost my copy of Munkres years ago. I remember it was red...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:46
@hardmath there are useful criteria on wolfram and Wikipedia...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:48
@hardmath You are right, I think I should use just the definition instead of the lemma. (The definition can be found in my previous question.) But it looks like the definition is obviously satisfied, so now I'm confused why Munkres says to consider a few cases and verify something, if everything looks too trivial (or I misunderstand something).
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:45
Now I see. Not all cases are trivial. If we take $(a,b]$ and $[b,c)$, then the intersection will be a singleton. It will not contain a basis element. So it cannot be a basis, according to the definition... I must be missing something.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:58
 |Â
show 1 more comment
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
The requirements for $mathcalBsubseteq mathscrP(X)$ to be a base for some topology on $X$ are (second edition., paragraph 13, page 78):
(1) $bigcup mathcalB = X$, or equivalently for every $x in X$ there is some $B in mathcalB$ such that $x in B$.
(2) For all $B_1, B_2 in mathcalB$, for all $x in B_1 cap B_2$: there exists some $B_3 in mathcalB$ such that $x in B_3 subseteq B_1 cap B_2$.
The lemma 13.2 is not used here: this is to characterise a base for an already given topology, while in the case at hand we want to define a topology by a suitable base.
Munkres suggests to check condition (2) by checking that the set of intervals he describes ($mathcalB$) has the property that if $B_1 , B_2 in mathcalB$ we either have $B_1 cap B_2 in mathcalB$ again (so we can take $B_3 = B_1 cap B_2$) or $emptyset$ (in which case the condition is voidly true as there are no $x in B_1 cap B_2$ to check.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
The requirements for $mathcalBsubseteq mathscrP(X)$ to be a base for some topology on $X$ are (second edition., paragraph 13, page 78):
(1) $bigcup mathcalB = X$, or equivalently for every $x in X$ there is some $B in mathcalB$ such that $x in B$.
(2) For all $B_1, B_2 in mathcalB$, for all $x in B_1 cap B_2$: there exists some $B_3 in mathcalB$ such that $x in B_3 subseteq B_1 cap B_2$.
The lemma 13.2 is not used here: this is to characterise a base for an already given topology, while in the case at hand we want to define a topology by a suitable base.
Munkres suggests to check condition (2) by checking that the set of intervals he describes ($mathcalB$) has the property that if $B_1 , B_2 in mathcalB$ we either have $B_1 cap B_2 in mathcalB$ again (so we can take $B_3 = B_1 cap B_2$) or $emptyset$ (in which case the condition is voidly true as there are no $x in B_1 cap B_2$ to check.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
The requirements for $mathcalBsubseteq mathscrP(X)$ to be a base for some topology on $X$ are (second edition., paragraph 13, page 78):
(1) $bigcup mathcalB = X$, or equivalently for every $x in X$ there is some $B in mathcalB$ such that $x in B$.
(2) For all $B_1, B_2 in mathcalB$, for all $x in B_1 cap B_2$: there exists some $B_3 in mathcalB$ such that $x in B_3 subseteq B_1 cap B_2$.
The lemma 13.2 is not used here: this is to characterise a base for an already given topology, while in the case at hand we want to define a topology by a suitable base.
Munkres suggests to check condition (2) by checking that the set of intervals he describes ($mathcalB$) has the property that if $B_1 , B_2 in mathcalB$ we either have $B_1 cap B_2 in mathcalB$ again (so we can take $B_3 = B_1 cap B_2$) or $emptyset$ (in which case the condition is voidly true as there are no $x in B_1 cap B_2$ to check.
The requirements for $mathcalBsubseteq mathscrP(X)$ to be a base for some topology on $X$ are (second edition., paragraph 13, page 78):
(1) $bigcup mathcalB = X$, or equivalently for every $x in X$ there is some $B in mathcalB$ such that $x in B$.
(2) For all $B_1, B_2 in mathcalB$, for all $x in B_1 cap B_2$: there exists some $B_3 in mathcalB$ such that $x in B_3 subseteq B_1 cap B_2$.
The lemma 13.2 is not used here: this is to characterise a base for an already given topology, while in the case at hand we want to define a topology by a suitable base.
Munkres suggests to check condition (2) by checking that the set of intervals he describes ($mathcalB$) has the property that if $B_1 , B_2 in mathcalB$ we either have $B_1 cap B_2 in mathcalB$ again (so we can take $B_3 = B_1 cap B_2$) or $emptyset$ (in which case the condition is voidly true as there are no $x in B_1 cap B_2$ to check.
edited Sep 1 at 14:20
answered Aug 31 at 21:36
Henno Brandsma
93.3k342101
93.3k342101
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
$mathscr B$ doesn't define a topology on $X$. You need to take arbitrary unions and finite intersections of elements of $mathscr B$ to fulfill the definition of a topology.
$mathscr B$ is a basis for the topology it generates...
Actually, $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as Munkres notes.
But you need to throw in arbitrary unions... $mathscr B$ isn't closed under arbitrary unions.
Thus $mathscr B$ generates a topology on $X$.
Munkres highlights a couple of things to check to be sure $mathscr B$ actually serves as a basis. Since the entire set $X$ must be open, every element $xin X$ has to belong to some set in $mathscr B$. Munkres further asks the reader to check $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as you noted. I don't have my copy of Munkres handy, but it seems likely that a different Lemma than the one the OP has identified was intended to be used.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 1:42
Perhaps... I lost my copy of Munkres years ago. I remember it was red...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:46
@hardmath there are useful criteria on wolfram and Wikipedia...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:48
@hardmath You are right, I think I should use just the definition instead of the lemma. (The definition can be found in my previous question.) But it looks like the definition is obviously satisfied, so now I'm confused why Munkres says to consider a few cases and verify something, if everything looks too trivial (or I misunderstand something).
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:45
Now I see. Not all cases are trivial. If we take $(a,b]$ and $[b,c)$, then the intersection will be a singleton. It will not contain a basis element. So it cannot be a basis, according to the definition... I must be missing something.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:58
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
1
down vote
$mathscr B$ doesn't define a topology on $X$. You need to take arbitrary unions and finite intersections of elements of $mathscr B$ to fulfill the definition of a topology.
$mathscr B$ is a basis for the topology it generates...
Actually, $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as Munkres notes.
But you need to throw in arbitrary unions... $mathscr B$ isn't closed under arbitrary unions.
Thus $mathscr B$ generates a topology on $X$.
Munkres highlights a couple of things to check to be sure $mathscr B$ actually serves as a basis. Since the entire set $X$ must be open, every element $xin X$ has to belong to some set in $mathscr B$. Munkres further asks the reader to check $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as you noted. I don't have my copy of Munkres handy, but it seems likely that a different Lemma than the one the OP has identified was intended to be used.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 1:42
Perhaps... I lost my copy of Munkres years ago. I remember it was red...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:46
@hardmath there are useful criteria on wolfram and Wikipedia...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:48
@hardmath You are right, I think I should use just the definition instead of the lemma. (The definition can be found in my previous question.) But it looks like the definition is obviously satisfied, so now I'm confused why Munkres says to consider a few cases and verify something, if everything looks too trivial (or I misunderstand something).
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:45
Now I see. Not all cases are trivial. If we take $(a,b]$ and $[b,c)$, then the intersection will be a singleton. It will not contain a basis element. So it cannot be a basis, according to the definition... I must be missing something.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:58
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
$mathscr B$ doesn't define a topology on $X$. You need to take arbitrary unions and finite intersections of elements of $mathscr B$ to fulfill the definition of a topology.
$mathscr B$ is a basis for the topology it generates...
Actually, $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as Munkres notes.
But you need to throw in arbitrary unions... $mathscr B$ isn't closed under arbitrary unions.
Thus $mathscr B$ generates a topology on $X$.
$mathscr B$ doesn't define a topology on $X$. You need to take arbitrary unions and finite intersections of elements of $mathscr B$ to fulfill the definition of a topology.
$mathscr B$ is a basis for the topology it generates...
Actually, $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as Munkres notes.
But you need to throw in arbitrary unions... $mathscr B$ isn't closed under arbitrary unions.
Thus $mathscr B$ generates a topology on $X$.
edited Aug 31 at 1:09
answered Aug 31 at 0:54
Chris Custer
6,3472622
6,3472622
Munkres highlights a couple of things to check to be sure $mathscr B$ actually serves as a basis. Since the entire set $X$ must be open, every element $xin X$ has to belong to some set in $mathscr B$. Munkres further asks the reader to check $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as you noted. I don't have my copy of Munkres handy, but it seems likely that a different Lemma than the one the OP has identified was intended to be used.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 1:42
Perhaps... I lost my copy of Munkres years ago. I remember it was red...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:46
@hardmath there are useful criteria on wolfram and Wikipedia...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:48
@hardmath You are right, I think I should use just the definition instead of the lemma. (The definition can be found in my previous question.) But it looks like the definition is obviously satisfied, so now I'm confused why Munkres says to consider a few cases and verify something, if everything looks too trivial (or I misunderstand something).
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:45
Now I see. Not all cases are trivial. If we take $(a,b]$ and $[b,c)$, then the intersection will be a singleton. It will not contain a basis element. So it cannot be a basis, according to the definition... I must be missing something.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:58
 |Â
show 1 more comment
Munkres highlights a couple of things to check to be sure $mathscr B$ actually serves as a basis. Since the entire set $X$ must be open, every element $xin X$ has to belong to some set in $mathscr B$. Munkres further asks the reader to check $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as you noted. I don't have my copy of Munkres handy, but it seems likely that a different Lemma than the one the OP has identified was intended to be used.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 1:42
Perhaps... I lost my copy of Munkres years ago. I remember it was red...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:46
@hardmath there are useful criteria on wolfram and Wikipedia...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:48
@hardmath You are right, I think I should use just the definition instead of the lemma. (The definition can be found in my previous question.) But it looks like the definition is obviously satisfied, so now I'm confused why Munkres says to consider a few cases and verify something, if everything looks too trivial (or I misunderstand something).
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:45
Now I see. Not all cases are trivial. If we take $(a,b]$ and $[b,c)$, then the intersection will be a singleton. It will not contain a basis element. So it cannot be a basis, according to the definition... I must be missing something.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:58
Munkres highlights a couple of things to check to be sure $mathscr B$ actually serves as a basis. Since the entire set $X$ must be open, every element $xin X$ has to belong to some set in $mathscr B$. Munkres further asks the reader to check $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as you noted. I don't have my copy of Munkres handy, but it seems likely that a different Lemma than the one the OP has identified was intended to be used.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 1:42
Munkres highlights a couple of things to check to be sure $mathscr B$ actually serves as a basis. Since the entire set $X$ must be open, every element $xin X$ has to belong to some set in $mathscr B$. Munkres further asks the reader to check $mathscr B$ is closed under finite intersections, as you noted. I don't have my copy of Munkres handy, but it seems likely that a different Lemma than the one the OP has identified was intended to be used.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 1:42
Perhaps... I lost my copy of Munkres years ago. I remember it was red...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:46
Perhaps... I lost my copy of Munkres years ago. I remember it was red...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:46
@hardmath there are useful criteria on wolfram and Wikipedia...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:48
@hardmath there are useful criteria on wolfram and Wikipedia...
â Chris Custer
Aug 31 at 1:48
@hardmath You are right, I think I should use just the definition instead of the lemma. (The definition can be found in my previous question.) But it looks like the definition is obviously satisfied, so now I'm confused why Munkres says to consider a few cases and verify something, if everything looks too trivial (or I misunderstand something).
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:45
@hardmath You are right, I think I should use just the definition instead of the lemma. (The definition can be found in my previous question.) But it looks like the definition is obviously satisfied, so now I'm confused why Munkres says to consider a few cases and verify something, if everything looks too trivial (or I misunderstand something).
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:45
Now I see. Not all cases are trivial. If we take $(a,b]$ and $[b,c)$, then the intersection will be a singleton. It will not contain a basis element. So it cannot be a basis, according to the definition... I must be missing something.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:58
Now I see. Not all cases are trivial. If we take $(a,b]$ and $[b,c)$, then the intersection will be a singleton. It will not contain a basis element. So it cannot be a basis, according to the definition... I must be missing something.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 2:58
 |Â
show 1 more comment
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To step back a bit, one has a fixed topology when all the open sets are known (or, equivalently, when all of its closed sets are known). In that context we can ask whether a certain subset of the open sets do or do not constitute a basis for the topology. That's where the Lemma you cite might come into play. Given that framework, what is your Question? Merely quoting from the Munkres textbook does not fully state a problem to be solved.
â hardmath
Aug 31 at 0:53
1
My question is in the last sentence, I believe.
â user531587
Aug 31 at 1:19