$R$-module $R=mathbbZ[sqrt-2]$

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Let $R=mathbbZ[sqrt-2]$




1) Is it true that for every free $R-$module $M$ of rank=$n$ that $M$ is a free $mathbbZ-$module of rank=$2n$?



2) Find two non-isomorphic $R$-modules with $19$ elements each.




For (1) I tried to begin with a basis $m_1,...,m_n$ of $M$ as a $R-$module and construct a basis $m_1',...,m_2n'$ of it as a $mathbbZ-$module.



For (2) I have no idea.



Any hints??










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  • The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 6:23











  • @астон вілла олоф мэллбэр Aaa I see! Thank you!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 6:24














up vote
1
down vote

favorite












Let $R=mathbbZ[sqrt-2]$




1) Is it true that for every free $R-$module $M$ of rank=$n$ that $M$ is a free $mathbbZ-$module of rank=$2n$?



2) Find two non-isomorphic $R$-modules with $19$ elements each.




For (1) I tried to begin with a basis $m_1,...,m_n$ of $M$ as a $R-$module and construct a basis $m_1',...,m_2n'$ of it as a $mathbbZ-$module.



For (2) I have no idea.



Any hints??










share|cite|improve this question





















  • The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 6:23











  • @астон вілла олоф мэллбэр Aaa I see! Thank you!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 6:24












up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











Let $R=mathbbZ[sqrt-2]$




1) Is it true that for every free $R-$module $M$ of rank=$n$ that $M$ is a free $mathbbZ-$module of rank=$2n$?



2) Find two non-isomorphic $R$-modules with $19$ elements each.




For (1) I tried to begin with a basis $m_1,...,m_n$ of $M$ as a $R-$module and construct a basis $m_1',...,m_2n'$ of it as a $mathbbZ-$module.



For (2) I have no idea.



Any hints??










share|cite|improve this question













Let $R=mathbbZ[sqrt-2]$




1) Is it true that for every free $R-$module $M$ of rank=$n$ that $M$ is a free $mathbbZ-$module of rank=$2n$?



2) Find two non-isomorphic $R$-modules with $19$ elements each.




For (1) I tried to begin with a basis $m_1,...,m_n$ of $M$ as a $R-$module and construct a basis $m_1',...,m_2n'$ of it as a $mathbbZ-$module.



For (2) I have no idea.



Any hints??







ring-theory modules






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asked Aug 31 at 6:07









giannispapav

1,342223




1,342223











  • The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 6:23











  • @астон вілла олоф мэллбэр Aaa I see! Thank you!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 6:24
















  • The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 6:23











  • @астон вілла олоф мэллбэр Aaa I see! Thank you!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 6:24















The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
– Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Aug 31 at 6:23





The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
– Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Aug 31 at 6:23













@астон вілла олоф мэллбэр Aaa I see! Thank you!
– giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:24




@астон вілла олоф мэллбэр Aaa I see! Thank you!
– giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:24










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote



accepted










Let $M = [m_1,...,m_n]$. Then, every element of $M$ can be written uniquely as $sum a_im_i$ where $a_i in mathbb Z[sqrt -2] = b_i + c_i sqrt-2$.



Clearly, $M$ is then generated by $[m_i, m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbb Z$.The question is : is this set linearly independent over $mathbb Z$?



Well, let $sum c_im_i + sum d_i m_isqrt-2 = 0$, where $c_i,d_i$ are integers. Then, $sum(c_i + d_i sqrt -2) m_i = 0$, so by the fact that $m_i$ are linearly independent over $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, we get that $c_i,d_i = 0$ for all $i$, as $c_i + d_i sqrt-2 = 0$ for all $i$.




The second question is already answered above , but I wish to point out something important, and be more elaborate. This will result in an expanded answer.



The point is, $fracRlangle alpharangle not equiv fracRlanglebetarangle$ as $R$- modules is important, because they are indeed isomorphic as additive groups (modules are abelian groups under addition) , having the same cardinality $19$ which is prime, so both are cyclic and we may map a generator to another generator of the additive abelian group.



What is the difference? An $R$-module homomorphism $phi : fracRlangle alpharangle to fracRlangle betarangle$, in addition to the fact that it is additive, also must satisfy $f(rx) = rf(x)$ for all $r in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ and $x in fracRlangle alpharangle$.




This very key fact makes a great difference. For example, let us consider $f(1 + langle alpharangle)$. This element satisfies the fact that $(alpha)(1 + langlealpharangle) = 0 + langle alpha rangle$. Hence, it follows that $alpha times f(1 + langle alpha rangle) = 0 + langle betarangle$. That is, if $f(1 + langle alpharangle) = c + langle betarangle$, then $beta | alpha c$, as $alpha c -0 in langle betarangle$.



The catch? Well, $beta$ is co-prime to $alpha$, because $a$ and $b$ have the same norm which is $19$ , a prime number, and they are not associates, so no element of non-unit norm can divide both. So $beta | c$ (note that we are in a unique factorization domain), and consequently, we get $f(1+langlealpharangle) = 0$. If one generator maps to zero, the whole group maps to zero. Consequently, every module homomorphism between the two modules is the zero map, and therefore none is an isomorphism.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 7:11










  • You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:12










  • I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 7:14






  • 1




    The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:17







  • 1




    You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:20

















up vote
3
down vote













For $2$ look for modules $R/I$ where $I$ is an ideal of $R$. As $R$
is a principal ideal domain, $I=left<alpharight>$ for some $alpha=a+bsqrt-2$. Then $|R/left<alpharight>|=|alpha|^2=a^2+2b^2$. If we
have $alpha=etabeta$ where $eta$ is a unit in $R$. Then $left<alpharight>
=left<betaright>$. But the only units in $R$ are $pm 1$. Taking $alpha=1+3sqrt-2$ and $beta=-1+3sqrt-2$, then
$|R/left<alpharight>|=|R/left<betaright>|=19$. Can you prove
$R/left<alpharight>notequiv R/left<betaright>$ as $R$-modules?






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  • I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 6:26










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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
1
down vote



accepted










Let $M = [m_1,...,m_n]$. Then, every element of $M$ can be written uniquely as $sum a_im_i$ where $a_i in mathbb Z[sqrt -2] = b_i + c_i sqrt-2$.



Clearly, $M$ is then generated by $[m_i, m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbb Z$.The question is : is this set linearly independent over $mathbb Z$?



Well, let $sum c_im_i + sum d_i m_isqrt-2 = 0$, where $c_i,d_i$ are integers. Then, $sum(c_i + d_i sqrt -2) m_i = 0$, so by the fact that $m_i$ are linearly independent over $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, we get that $c_i,d_i = 0$ for all $i$, as $c_i + d_i sqrt-2 = 0$ for all $i$.




The second question is already answered above , but I wish to point out something important, and be more elaborate. This will result in an expanded answer.



The point is, $fracRlangle alpharangle not equiv fracRlanglebetarangle$ as $R$- modules is important, because they are indeed isomorphic as additive groups (modules are abelian groups under addition) , having the same cardinality $19$ which is prime, so both are cyclic and we may map a generator to another generator of the additive abelian group.



What is the difference? An $R$-module homomorphism $phi : fracRlangle alpharangle to fracRlangle betarangle$, in addition to the fact that it is additive, also must satisfy $f(rx) = rf(x)$ for all $r in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ and $x in fracRlangle alpharangle$.




This very key fact makes a great difference. For example, let us consider $f(1 + langle alpharangle)$. This element satisfies the fact that $(alpha)(1 + langlealpharangle) = 0 + langle alpha rangle$. Hence, it follows that $alpha times f(1 + langle alpha rangle) = 0 + langle betarangle$. That is, if $f(1 + langle alpharangle) = c + langle betarangle$, then $beta | alpha c$, as $alpha c -0 in langle betarangle$.



The catch? Well, $beta$ is co-prime to $alpha$, because $a$ and $b$ have the same norm which is $19$ , a prime number, and they are not associates, so no element of non-unit norm can divide both. So $beta | c$ (note that we are in a unique factorization domain), and consequently, we get $f(1+langlealpharangle) = 0$. If one generator maps to zero, the whole group maps to zero. Consequently, every module homomorphism between the two modules is the zero map, and therefore none is an isomorphism.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 7:11










  • You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:12










  • I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 7:14






  • 1




    The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:17







  • 1




    You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:20














up vote
1
down vote



accepted










Let $M = [m_1,...,m_n]$. Then, every element of $M$ can be written uniquely as $sum a_im_i$ where $a_i in mathbb Z[sqrt -2] = b_i + c_i sqrt-2$.



Clearly, $M$ is then generated by $[m_i, m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbb Z$.The question is : is this set linearly independent over $mathbb Z$?



Well, let $sum c_im_i + sum d_i m_isqrt-2 = 0$, where $c_i,d_i$ are integers. Then, $sum(c_i + d_i sqrt -2) m_i = 0$, so by the fact that $m_i$ are linearly independent over $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, we get that $c_i,d_i = 0$ for all $i$, as $c_i + d_i sqrt-2 = 0$ for all $i$.




The second question is already answered above , but I wish to point out something important, and be more elaborate. This will result in an expanded answer.



The point is, $fracRlangle alpharangle not equiv fracRlanglebetarangle$ as $R$- modules is important, because they are indeed isomorphic as additive groups (modules are abelian groups under addition) , having the same cardinality $19$ which is prime, so both are cyclic and we may map a generator to another generator of the additive abelian group.



What is the difference? An $R$-module homomorphism $phi : fracRlangle alpharangle to fracRlangle betarangle$, in addition to the fact that it is additive, also must satisfy $f(rx) = rf(x)$ for all $r in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ and $x in fracRlangle alpharangle$.




This very key fact makes a great difference. For example, let us consider $f(1 + langle alpharangle)$. This element satisfies the fact that $(alpha)(1 + langlealpharangle) = 0 + langle alpha rangle$. Hence, it follows that $alpha times f(1 + langle alpha rangle) = 0 + langle betarangle$. That is, if $f(1 + langle alpharangle) = c + langle betarangle$, then $beta | alpha c$, as $alpha c -0 in langle betarangle$.



The catch? Well, $beta$ is co-prime to $alpha$, because $a$ and $b$ have the same norm which is $19$ , a prime number, and they are not associates, so no element of non-unit norm can divide both. So $beta | c$ (note that we are in a unique factorization domain), and consequently, we get $f(1+langlealpharangle) = 0$. If one generator maps to zero, the whole group maps to zero. Consequently, every module homomorphism between the two modules is the zero map, and therefore none is an isomorphism.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 7:11










  • You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:12










  • I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 7:14






  • 1




    The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:17







  • 1




    You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:20












up vote
1
down vote



accepted







up vote
1
down vote



accepted






Let $M = [m_1,...,m_n]$. Then, every element of $M$ can be written uniquely as $sum a_im_i$ where $a_i in mathbb Z[sqrt -2] = b_i + c_i sqrt-2$.



Clearly, $M$ is then generated by $[m_i, m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbb Z$.The question is : is this set linearly independent over $mathbb Z$?



Well, let $sum c_im_i + sum d_i m_isqrt-2 = 0$, where $c_i,d_i$ are integers. Then, $sum(c_i + d_i sqrt -2) m_i = 0$, so by the fact that $m_i$ are linearly independent over $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, we get that $c_i,d_i = 0$ for all $i$, as $c_i + d_i sqrt-2 = 0$ for all $i$.




The second question is already answered above , but I wish to point out something important, and be more elaborate. This will result in an expanded answer.



The point is, $fracRlangle alpharangle not equiv fracRlanglebetarangle$ as $R$- modules is important, because they are indeed isomorphic as additive groups (modules are abelian groups under addition) , having the same cardinality $19$ which is prime, so both are cyclic and we may map a generator to another generator of the additive abelian group.



What is the difference? An $R$-module homomorphism $phi : fracRlangle alpharangle to fracRlangle betarangle$, in addition to the fact that it is additive, also must satisfy $f(rx) = rf(x)$ for all $r in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ and $x in fracRlangle alpharangle$.




This very key fact makes a great difference. For example, let us consider $f(1 + langle alpharangle)$. This element satisfies the fact that $(alpha)(1 + langlealpharangle) = 0 + langle alpha rangle$. Hence, it follows that $alpha times f(1 + langle alpha rangle) = 0 + langle betarangle$. That is, if $f(1 + langle alpharangle) = c + langle betarangle$, then $beta | alpha c$, as $alpha c -0 in langle betarangle$.



The catch? Well, $beta$ is co-prime to $alpha$, because $a$ and $b$ have the same norm which is $19$ , a prime number, and they are not associates, so no element of non-unit norm can divide both. So $beta | c$ (note that we are in a unique factorization domain), and consequently, we get $f(1+langlealpharangle) = 0$. If one generator maps to zero, the whole group maps to zero. Consequently, every module homomorphism between the two modules is the zero map, and therefore none is an isomorphism.






share|cite|improve this answer












Let $M = [m_1,...,m_n]$. Then, every element of $M$ can be written uniquely as $sum a_im_i$ where $a_i in mathbb Z[sqrt -2] = b_i + c_i sqrt-2$.



Clearly, $M$ is then generated by $[m_i, m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbb Z$.The question is : is this set linearly independent over $mathbb Z$?



Well, let $sum c_im_i + sum d_i m_isqrt-2 = 0$, where $c_i,d_i$ are integers. Then, $sum(c_i + d_i sqrt -2) m_i = 0$, so by the fact that $m_i$ are linearly independent over $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, we get that $c_i,d_i = 0$ for all $i$, as $c_i + d_i sqrt-2 = 0$ for all $i$.




The second question is already answered above , but I wish to point out something important, and be more elaborate. This will result in an expanded answer.



The point is, $fracRlangle alpharangle not equiv fracRlanglebetarangle$ as $R$- modules is important, because they are indeed isomorphic as additive groups (modules are abelian groups under addition) , having the same cardinality $19$ which is prime, so both are cyclic and we may map a generator to another generator of the additive abelian group.



What is the difference? An $R$-module homomorphism $phi : fracRlangle alpharangle to fracRlangle betarangle$, in addition to the fact that it is additive, also must satisfy $f(rx) = rf(x)$ for all $r in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ and $x in fracRlangle alpharangle$.




This very key fact makes a great difference. For example, let us consider $f(1 + langle alpharangle)$. This element satisfies the fact that $(alpha)(1 + langlealpharangle) = 0 + langle alpha rangle$. Hence, it follows that $alpha times f(1 + langle alpha rangle) = 0 + langle betarangle$. That is, if $f(1 + langle alpharangle) = c + langle betarangle$, then $beta | alpha c$, as $alpha c -0 in langle betarangle$.



The catch? Well, $beta$ is co-prime to $alpha$, because $a$ and $b$ have the same norm which is $19$ , a prime number, and they are not associates, so no element of non-unit norm can divide both. So $beta | c$ (note that we are in a unique factorization domain), and consequently, we get $f(1+langlealpharangle) = 0$. If one generator maps to zero, the whole group maps to zero. Consequently, every module homomorphism between the two modules is the zero map, and therefore none is an isomorphism.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Aug 31 at 7:08









астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг

33.5k32870




33.5k32870











  • Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 7:11










  • You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:12










  • I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 7:14






  • 1




    The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:17







  • 1




    You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:20
















  • Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 7:11










  • You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:12










  • I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 7:14






  • 1




    The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:17







  • 1




    You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
    – Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
    Aug 31 at 7:20















Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
– giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:11




Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
– giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:11












You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
– Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Aug 31 at 7:12




You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
– Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Aug 31 at 7:12












I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
– giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:14




I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
– giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:14




1




1




The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
– Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Aug 31 at 7:17





The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
– Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Aug 31 at 7:17





1




1




You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
– Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Aug 31 at 7:20




You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
– Ð°ÑÑ‚он вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Aug 31 at 7:20










up vote
3
down vote













For $2$ look for modules $R/I$ where $I$ is an ideal of $R$. As $R$
is a principal ideal domain, $I=left<alpharight>$ for some $alpha=a+bsqrt-2$. Then $|R/left<alpharight>|=|alpha|^2=a^2+2b^2$. If we
have $alpha=etabeta$ where $eta$ is a unit in $R$. Then $left<alpharight>
=left<betaright>$. But the only units in $R$ are $pm 1$. Taking $alpha=1+3sqrt-2$ and $beta=-1+3sqrt-2$, then
$|R/left<alpharight>|=|R/left<betaright>|=19$. Can you prove
$R/left<alpharight>notequiv R/left<betaright>$ as $R$-modules?






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 6:26














up vote
3
down vote













For $2$ look for modules $R/I$ where $I$ is an ideal of $R$. As $R$
is a principal ideal domain, $I=left<alpharight>$ for some $alpha=a+bsqrt-2$. Then $|R/left<alpharight>|=|alpha|^2=a^2+2b^2$. If we
have $alpha=etabeta$ where $eta$ is a unit in $R$. Then $left<alpharight>
=left<betaright>$. But the only units in $R$ are $pm 1$. Taking $alpha=1+3sqrt-2$ and $beta=-1+3sqrt-2$, then
$|R/left<alpharight>|=|R/left<betaright>|=19$. Can you prove
$R/left<alpharight>notequiv R/left<betaright>$ as $R$-modules?






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 6:26












up vote
3
down vote










up vote
3
down vote









For $2$ look for modules $R/I$ where $I$ is an ideal of $R$. As $R$
is a principal ideal domain, $I=left<alpharight>$ for some $alpha=a+bsqrt-2$. Then $|R/left<alpharight>|=|alpha|^2=a^2+2b^2$. If we
have $alpha=etabeta$ where $eta$ is a unit in $R$. Then $left<alpharight>
=left<betaright>$. But the only units in $R$ are $pm 1$. Taking $alpha=1+3sqrt-2$ and $beta=-1+3sqrt-2$, then
$|R/left<alpharight>|=|R/left<betaright>|=19$. Can you prove
$R/left<alpharight>notequiv R/left<betaright>$ as $R$-modules?






share|cite|improve this answer












For $2$ look for modules $R/I$ where $I$ is an ideal of $R$. As $R$
is a principal ideal domain, $I=left<alpharight>$ for some $alpha=a+bsqrt-2$. Then $|R/left<alpharight>|=|alpha|^2=a^2+2b^2$. If we
have $alpha=etabeta$ where $eta$ is a unit in $R$. Then $left<alpharight>
=left<betaright>$. But the only units in $R$ are $pm 1$. Taking $alpha=1+3sqrt-2$ and $beta=-1+3sqrt-2$, then
$|R/left<alpharight>|=|R/left<betaright>|=19$. Can you prove
$R/left<alpharight>notequiv R/left<betaright>$ as $R$-modules?







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Aug 31 at 6:14









Lord Shark the Unknown

89.1k955115




89.1k955115











  • I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 6:26
















  • I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
    – giannispapav
    Aug 31 at 6:26















I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
– giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:26




I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
– giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:26

















 

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