$R$-module $R=mathbbZ[sqrt-2]$
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Let $R=mathbbZ[sqrt-2]$
1) Is it true that for every free $R-$module $M$ of rank=$n$ that $M$ is a free $mathbbZ-$module of rank=$2n$?
2) Find two non-isomorphic $R$-modules with $19$ elements each.
For (1) I tried to begin with a basis $m_1,...,m_n$ of $M$ as a $R-$module and construct a basis $m_1',...,m_2n'$ of it as a $mathbbZ-$module.
For (2) I have no idea.
Any hints??
ring-theory modules
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Let $R=mathbbZ[sqrt-2]$
1) Is it true that for every free $R-$module $M$ of rank=$n$ that $M$ is a free $mathbbZ-$module of rank=$2n$?
2) Find two non-isomorphic $R$-modules with $19$ elements each.
For (1) I tried to begin with a basis $m_1,...,m_n$ of $M$ as a $R-$module and construct a basis $m_1',...,m_2n'$ of it as a $mathbbZ-$module.
For (2) I have no idea.
Any hints??
ring-theory modules
The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 6:23
@ðÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂàAaa I see! Thank you!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:24
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Let $R=mathbbZ[sqrt-2]$
1) Is it true that for every free $R-$module $M$ of rank=$n$ that $M$ is a free $mathbbZ-$module of rank=$2n$?
2) Find two non-isomorphic $R$-modules with $19$ elements each.
For (1) I tried to begin with a basis $m_1,...,m_n$ of $M$ as a $R-$module and construct a basis $m_1',...,m_2n'$ of it as a $mathbbZ-$module.
For (2) I have no idea.
Any hints??
ring-theory modules
Let $R=mathbbZ[sqrt-2]$
1) Is it true that for every free $R-$module $M$ of rank=$n$ that $M$ is a free $mathbbZ-$module of rank=$2n$?
2) Find two non-isomorphic $R$-modules with $19$ elements each.
For (1) I tried to begin with a basis $m_1,...,m_n$ of $M$ as a $R-$module and construct a basis $m_1',...,m_2n'$ of it as a $mathbbZ-$module.
For (2) I have no idea.
Any hints??
ring-theory modules
ring-theory modules
asked Aug 31 at 6:07
giannispapav
1,342223
1,342223
The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 6:23
@ðÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂàAaa I see! Thank you!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:24
add a comment |Â
The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 6:23
@ðÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂàAaa I see! Thank you!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:24
The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 6:23
The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 6:23
@ðÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂàAaa I see! Thank you!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:24
@ðÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂàAaa I see! Thank you!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:24
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Let $M = [m_1,...,m_n]$. Then, every element of $M$ can be written uniquely as $sum a_im_i$ where $a_i in mathbb Z[sqrt -2] = b_i + c_i sqrt-2$.
Clearly, $M$ is then generated by $[m_i, m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbb Z$.The question is : is this set linearly independent over $mathbb Z$?
Well, let $sum c_im_i + sum d_i m_isqrt-2 = 0$, where $c_i,d_i$ are integers. Then, $sum(c_i + d_i sqrt -2) m_i = 0$, so by the fact that $m_i$ are linearly independent over $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, we get that $c_i,d_i = 0$ for all $i$, as $c_i + d_i sqrt-2 = 0$ for all $i$.
The second question is already answered above , but I wish to point out something important, and be more elaborate. This will result in an expanded answer.
The point is, $fracRlangle alpharangle not equiv fracRlanglebetarangle$ as $R$- modules is important, because they are indeed isomorphic as additive groups (modules are abelian groups under addition) , having the same cardinality $19$ which is prime, so both are cyclic and we may map a generator to another generator of the additive abelian group.
What is the difference? An $R$-module homomorphism $phi : fracRlangle alpharangle to fracRlangle betarangle$, in addition to the fact that it is additive, also must satisfy $f(rx) = rf(x)$ for all $r in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ and $x in fracRlangle alpharangle$.
This very key fact makes a great difference. For example, let us consider $f(1 + langle alpharangle)$. This element satisfies the fact that $(alpha)(1 + langlealpharangle) = 0 + langle alpha rangle$. Hence, it follows that $alpha times f(1 + langle alpha rangle) = 0 + langle betarangle$. That is, if $f(1 + langle alpharangle) = c + langle betarangle$, then $beta | alpha c$, as $alpha c -0 in langle betarangle$.
The catch? Well, $beta$ is co-prime to $alpha$, because $a$ and $b$ have the same norm which is $19$ , a prime number, and they are not associates, so no element of non-unit norm can divide both. So $beta | c$ (note that we are in a unique factorization domain), and consequently, we get $f(1+langlealpharangle) = 0$. If one generator maps to zero, the whole group maps to zero. Consequently, every module homomorphism between the two modules is the zero map, and therefore none is an isomorphism.
Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:11
You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:12
I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:14
1
The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:17
1
You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:20
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
For $2$ look for modules $R/I$ where $I$ is an ideal of $R$. As $R$
is a principal ideal domain, $I=left<alpharight>$ for some $alpha=a+bsqrt-2$. Then $|R/left<alpharight>|=|alpha|^2=a^2+2b^2$. If we
have $alpha=etabeta$ where $eta$ is a unit in $R$. Then $left<alpharight>
=left<betaright>$. But the only units in $R$ are $pm 1$. Taking $alpha=1+3sqrt-2$ and $beta=-1+3sqrt-2$, then
$|R/left<alpharight>|=|R/left<betaright>|=19$. Can you prove
$R/left<alpharight>notequiv R/left<betaright>$ as $R$-modules?
I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:26
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Let $M = [m_1,...,m_n]$. Then, every element of $M$ can be written uniquely as $sum a_im_i$ where $a_i in mathbb Z[sqrt -2] = b_i + c_i sqrt-2$.
Clearly, $M$ is then generated by $[m_i, m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbb Z$.The question is : is this set linearly independent over $mathbb Z$?
Well, let $sum c_im_i + sum d_i m_isqrt-2 = 0$, where $c_i,d_i$ are integers. Then, $sum(c_i + d_i sqrt -2) m_i = 0$, so by the fact that $m_i$ are linearly independent over $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, we get that $c_i,d_i = 0$ for all $i$, as $c_i + d_i sqrt-2 = 0$ for all $i$.
The second question is already answered above , but I wish to point out something important, and be more elaborate. This will result in an expanded answer.
The point is, $fracRlangle alpharangle not equiv fracRlanglebetarangle$ as $R$- modules is important, because they are indeed isomorphic as additive groups (modules are abelian groups under addition) , having the same cardinality $19$ which is prime, so both are cyclic and we may map a generator to another generator of the additive abelian group.
What is the difference? An $R$-module homomorphism $phi : fracRlangle alpharangle to fracRlangle betarangle$, in addition to the fact that it is additive, also must satisfy $f(rx) = rf(x)$ for all $r in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ and $x in fracRlangle alpharangle$.
This very key fact makes a great difference. For example, let us consider $f(1 + langle alpharangle)$. This element satisfies the fact that $(alpha)(1 + langlealpharangle) = 0 + langle alpha rangle$. Hence, it follows that $alpha times f(1 + langle alpha rangle) = 0 + langle betarangle$. That is, if $f(1 + langle alpharangle) = c + langle betarangle$, then $beta | alpha c$, as $alpha c -0 in langle betarangle$.
The catch? Well, $beta$ is co-prime to $alpha$, because $a$ and $b$ have the same norm which is $19$ , a prime number, and they are not associates, so no element of non-unit norm can divide both. So $beta | c$ (note that we are in a unique factorization domain), and consequently, we get $f(1+langlealpharangle) = 0$. If one generator maps to zero, the whole group maps to zero. Consequently, every module homomorphism between the two modules is the zero map, and therefore none is an isomorphism.
Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:11
You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:12
I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:14
1
The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:17
1
You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:20
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Let $M = [m_1,...,m_n]$. Then, every element of $M$ can be written uniquely as $sum a_im_i$ where $a_i in mathbb Z[sqrt -2] = b_i + c_i sqrt-2$.
Clearly, $M$ is then generated by $[m_i, m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbb Z$.The question is : is this set linearly independent over $mathbb Z$?
Well, let $sum c_im_i + sum d_i m_isqrt-2 = 0$, where $c_i,d_i$ are integers. Then, $sum(c_i + d_i sqrt -2) m_i = 0$, so by the fact that $m_i$ are linearly independent over $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, we get that $c_i,d_i = 0$ for all $i$, as $c_i + d_i sqrt-2 = 0$ for all $i$.
The second question is already answered above , but I wish to point out something important, and be more elaborate. This will result in an expanded answer.
The point is, $fracRlangle alpharangle not equiv fracRlanglebetarangle$ as $R$- modules is important, because they are indeed isomorphic as additive groups (modules are abelian groups under addition) , having the same cardinality $19$ which is prime, so both are cyclic and we may map a generator to another generator of the additive abelian group.
What is the difference? An $R$-module homomorphism $phi : fracRlangle alpharangle to fracRlangle betarangle$, in addition to the fact that it is additive, also must satisfy $f(rx) = rf(x)$ for all $r in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ and $x in fracRlangle alpharangle$.
This very key fact makes a great difference. For example, let us consider $f(1 + langle alpharangle)$. This element satisfies the fact that $(alpha)(1 + langlealpharangle) = 0 + langle alpha rangle$. Hence, it follows that $alpha times f(1 + langle alpha rangle) = 0 + langle betarangle$. That is, if $f(1 + langle alpharangle) = c + langle betarangle$, then $beta | alpha c$, as $alpha c -0 in langle betarangle$.
The catch? Well, $beta$ is co-prime to $alpha$, because $a$ and $b$ have the same norm which is $19$ , a prime number, and they are not associates, so no element of non-unit norm can divide both. So $beta | c$ (note that we are in a unique factorization domain), and consequently, we get $f(1+langlealpharangle) = 0$. If one generator maps to zero, the whole group maps to zero. Consequently, every module homomorphism between the two modules is the zero map, and therefore none is an isomorphism.
Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:11
You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:12
I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:14
1
The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:17
1
You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:20
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Let $M = [m_1,...,m_n]$. Then, every element of $M$ can be written uniquely as $sum a_im_i$ where $a_i in mathbb Z[sqrt -2] = b_i + c_i sqrt-2$.
Clearly, $M$ is then generated by $[m_i, m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbb Z$.The question is : is this set linearly independent over $mathbb Z$?
Well, let $sum c_im_i + sum d_i m_isqrt-2 = 0$, where $c_i,d_i$ are integers. Then, $sum(c_i + d_i sqrt -2) m_i = 0$, so by the fact that $m_i$ are linearly independent over $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, we get that $c_i,d_i = 0$ for all $i$, as $c_i + d_i sqrt-2 = 0$ for all $i$.
The second question is already answered above , but I wish to point out something important, and be more elaborate. This will result in an expanded answer.
The point is, $fracRlangle alpharangle not equiv fracRlanglebetarangle$ as $R$- modules is important, because they are indeed isomorphic as additive groups (modules are abelian groups under addition) , having the same cardinality $19$ which is prime, so both are cyclic and we may map a generator to another generator of the additive abelian group.
What is the difference? An $R$-module homomorphism $phi : fracRlangle alpharangle to fracRlangle betarangle$, in addition to the fact that it is additive, also must satisfy $f(rx) = rf(x)$ for all $r in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ and $x in fracRlangle alpharangle$.
This very key fact makes a great difference. For example, let us consider $f(1 + langle alpharangle)$. This element satisfies the fact that $(alpha)(1 + langlealpharangle) = 0 + langle alpha rangle$. Hence, it follows that $alpha times f(1 + langle alpha rangle) = 0 + langle betarangle$. That is, if $f(1 + langle alpharangle) = c + langle betarangle$, then $beta | alpha c$, as $alpha c -0 in langle betarangle$.
The catch? Well, $beta$ is co-prime to $alpha$, because $a$ and $b$ have the same norm which is $19$ , a prime number, and they are not associates, so no element of non-unit norm can divide both. So $beta | c$ (note that we are in a unique factorization domain), and consequently, we get $f(1+langlealpharangle) = 0$. If one generator maps to zero, the whole group maps to zero. Consequently, every module homomorphism between the two modules is the zero map, and therefore none is an isomorphism.
Let $M = [m_1,...,m_n]$. Then, every element of $M$ can be written uniquely as $sum a_im_i$ where $a_i in mathbb Z[sqrt -2] = b_i + c_i sqrt-2$.
Clearly, $M$ is then generated by $[m_i, m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbb Z$.The question is : is this set linearly independent over $mathbb Z$?
Well, let $sum c_im_i + sum d_i m_isqrt-2 = 0$, where $c_i,d_i$ are integers. Then, $sum(c_i + d_i sqrt -2) m_i = 0$, so by the fact that $m_i$ are linearly independent over $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, we get that $c_i,d_i = 0$ for all $i$, as $c_i + d_i sqrt-2 = 0$ for all $i$.
The second question is already answered above , but I wish to point out something important, and be more elaborate. This will result in an expanded answer.
The point is, $fracRlangle alpharangle not equiv fracRlanglebetarangle$ as $R$- modules is important, because they are indeed isomorphic as additive groups (modules are abelian groups under addition) , having the same cardinality $19$ which is prime, so both are cyclic and we may map a generator to another generator of the additive abelian group.
What is the difference? An $R$-module homomorphism $phi : fracRlangle alpharangle to fracRlangle betarangle$, in addition to the fact that it is additive, also must satisfy $f(rx) = rf(x)$ for all $r in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ and $x in fracRlangle alpharangle$.
This very key fact makes a great difference. For example, let us consider $f(1 + langle alpharangle)$. This element satisfies the fact that $(alpha)(1 + langlealpharangle) = 0 + langle alpha rangle$. Hence, it follows that $alpha times f(1 + langle alpha rangle) = 0 + langle betarangle$. That is, if $f(1 + langle alpharangle) = c + langle betarangle$, then $beta | alpha c$, as $alpha c -0 in langle betarangle$.
The catch? Well, $beta$ is co-prime to $alpha$, because $a$ and $b$ have the same norm which is $19$ , a prime number, and they are not associates, so no element of non-unit norm can divide both. So $beta | c$ (note that we are in a unique factorization domain), and consequently, we get $f(1+langlealpharangle) = 0$. If one generator maps to zero, the whole group maps to zero. Consequently, every module homomorphism between the two modules is the zero map, and therefore none is an isomorphism.
answered Aug 31 at 7:08
ðÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
33.5k32870
33.5k32870
Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:11
You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:12
I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:14
1
The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:17
1
You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:20
 |Â
show 1 more comment
Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:11
You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:12
I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:14
1
The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:17
1
You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:20
Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:11
Thank you again. Your answers really help me!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:11
You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:12
You are welcome. I thought that the fact that the homomorphism was of modules and not merely of additive groups merited attention.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:12
I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:14
I have a question about (1): You say $M$ is then generated by $[m_i,m_isqrt-2]$ over $mathbbZ$. But how do I know that $m_isqrt-2in M$?
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 7:14
1
1
The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:17
The point is, that $M$ is generated, as a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ module, by the elements $[m_i]$. This is what we assume in the starting. So every element of $M$ is a linear combination of the form $sum a_jm_j$ where $a_j in mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$. In particular, the element $sqrt-2$ is an element of $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$, and therefore $sqrt-2m_i$ is a $mathbb Z[sqrt-2]$ - linear combination of the generators of $M$, like so : $sqrt-2m_i = 0m_1 + 0m_2 + ... + sqrt-2m_i + 0m_i+1 + ... + 0m_n$ , hence also an element of $M$.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:17
1
1
You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:20
You are welcome. Note that $M$ is a module, but over which ring it is a module, that also matters. The first question seeks to question this concept.
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 7:20
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
For $2$ look for modules $R/I$ where $I$ is an ideal of $R$. As $R$
is a principal ideal domain, $I=left<alpharight>$ for some $alpha=a+bsqrt-2$. Then $|R/left<alpharight>|=|alpha|^2=a^2+2b^2$. If we
have $alpha=etabeta$ where $eta$ is a unit in $R$. Then $left<alpharight>
=left<betaright>$. But the only units in $R$ are $pm 1$. Taking $alpha=1+3sqrt-2$ and $beta=-1+3sqrt-2$, then
$|R/left<alpharight>|=|R/left<betaright>|=19$. Can you prove
$R/left<alpharight>notequiv R/left<betaright>$ as $R$-modules?
I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:26
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
For $2$ look for modules $R/I$ where $I$ is an ideal of $R$. As $R$
is a principal ideal domain, $I=left<alpharight>$ for some $alpha=a+bsqrt-2$. Then $|R/left<alpharight>|=|alpha|^2=a^2+2b^2$. If we
have $alpha=etabeta$ where $eta$ is a unit in $R$. Then $left<alpharight>
=left<betaright>$. But the only units in $R$ are $pm 1$. Taking $alpha=1+3sqrt-2$ and $beta=-1+3sqrt-2$, then
$|R/left<alpharight>|=|R/left<betaright>|=19$. Can you prove
$R/left<alpharight>notequiv R/left<betaright>$ as $R$-modules?
I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:26
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
For $2$ look for modules $R/I$ where $I$ is an ideal of $R$. As $R$
is a principal ideal domain, $I=left<alpharight>$ for some $alpha=a+bsqrt-2$. Then $|R/left<alpharight>|=|alpha|^2=a^2+2b^2$. If we
have $alpha=etabeta$ where $eta$ is a unit in $R$. Then $left<alpharight>
=left<betaright>$. But the only units in $R$ are $pm 1$. Taking $alpha=1+3sqrt-2$ and $beta=-1+3sqrt-2$, then
$|R/left<alpharight>|=|R/left<betaright>|=19$. Can you prove
$R/left<alpharight>notequiv R/left<betaright>$ as $R$-modules?
For $2$ look for modules $R/I$ where $I$ is an ideal of $R$. As $R$
is a principal ideal domain, $I=left<alpharight>$ for some $alpha=a+bsqrt-2$. Then $|R/left<alpharight>|=|alpha|^2=a^2+2b^2$. If we
have $alpha=etabeta$ where $eta$ is a unit in $R$. Then $left<alpharight>
=left<betaright>$. But the only units in $R$ are $pm 1$. Taking $alpha=1+3sqrt-2$ and $beta=-1+3sqrt-2$, then
$|R/left<alpharight>|=|R/left<betaright>|=19$. Can you prove
$R/left<alpharight>notequiv R/left<betaright>$ as $R$-modules?
answered Aug 31 at 6:14
Lord Shark the Unknown
89.1k955115
89.1k955115
I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:26
add a comment |Â
I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:26
I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:26
I'll try to answer your last question. Thanks for answering!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:26
add a comment |Â
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2900372%2fr-module-r-mathbbz-sqrt-2%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
The first question is very simple : given the basis $[r_i]$ over $mathbb Z [sqrt-2]$, why don't you show that it is a module generated by $[r_i, sqrt-2r_i]$ over$mathbb Z$?
â Ã°ÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂÃÂó
Aug 31 at 6:23
@ðÃÂÃÂþý òÃÂûûð þûþàüÃÂûûñÃÂàAaa I see! Thank you!
â giannispapav
Aug 31 at 6:24