How to solve $8t^3-4t^2-4t+1=0$
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I obtain this cubic equation from solving the trigonometric equation $sin3x=sin4x$. I don't know how to solve it to obtain 3 roots.
Thank you!
algebra-precalculus trigonometry cubic-equations
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favorite
I obtain this cubic equation from solving the trigonometric equation $sin3x=sin4x$. I don't know how to solve it to obtain 3 roots.
Thank you!
algebra-precalculus trigonometry cubic-equations
1
The roots of this cubic aren't pretty. $tsim 0.62349, 0.22252,0.90097$
â Rushabh Mehta
Aug 10 at 18:53
Also see here
â John
Aug 10 at 19:00
See also : math.stackexchange.com/questions/638874/â¦
â lab bhattacharjee
Aug 13 at 11:28
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
I obtain this cubic equation from solving the trigonometric equation $sin3x=sin4x$. I don't know how to solve it to obtain 3 roots.
Thank you!
algebra-precalculus trigonometry cubic-equations
I obtain this cubic equation from solving the trigonometric equation $sin3x=sin4x$. I don't know how to solve it to obtain 3 roots.
Thank you!
algebra-precalculus trigonometry cubic-equations
edited Aug 10 at 22:17
dxiv
54.7k64798
54.7k64798
asked Aug 10 at 18:51
James Warthington
21427
21427
1
The roots of this cubic aren't pretty. $tsim 0.62349, 0.22252,0.90097$
â Rushabh Mehta
Aug 10 at 18:53
Also see here
â John
Aug 10 at 19:00
See also : math.stackexchange.com/questions/638874/â¦
â lab bhattacharjee
Aug 13 at 11:28
add a comment |Â
1
The roots of this cubic aren't pretty. $tsim 0.62349, 0.22252,0.90097$
â Rushabh Mehta
Aug 10 at 18:53
Also see here
â John
Aug 10 at 19:00
See also : math.stackexchange.com/questions/638874/â¦
â lab bhattacharjee
Aug 13 at 11:28
1
1
The roots of this cubic aren't pretty. $tsim 0.62349, 0.22252,0.90097$
â Rushabh Mehta
Aug 10 at 18:53
The roots of this cubic aren't pretty. $tsim 0.62349, 0.22252,0.90097$
â Rushabh Mehta
Aug 10 at 18:53
Also see here
â John
Aug 10 at 19:00
Also see here
â John
Aug 10 at 19:00
See also : math.stackexchange.com/questions/638874/â¦
â lab bhattacharjee
Aug 13 at 11:28
See also : math.stackexchange.com/questions/638874/â¦
â lab bhattacharjee
Aug 13 at 11:28
add a comment |Â
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Added, Saturday: Gauss initiated the study of cyclotomic, umm, numbers, and a simple method for creating polynomials for which they were roots. This is discussed in modern terminology HERE. The jpeg at the bottom is from an 1875 book by Reuschle, with many, many such calculations. I put a list of such cubics with prime denominator at http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2022216/on-the-trigonometric-roots-of-a-cubic/2022887#2022887 With prime denominator, the cubic is $x^3 + x^2 - left( fracp-13 right) x + c$ with an integer $c.$ For denominator $9$ it is $x^3 - 3 x + 1$ instead, page 174 in Reuschle.
ORIGINAL. umm. The roots of
$$ x^3 + x^2 - 2 x - 1 $$
are
$$ 2 cos frac2pi7 ; , ; ; 2 cos frac4pi7 ; , ; ; 2 cos frac6pi7 ; . ; ; $$
Taking $$ x = -2t $$ gives
$$ -8t^3 + 4 t^2 + 4 t - 1 $$
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
solving the trigonometric equation $sin3x=sin4x$
Hint: Â use $,sin(a)-sin(b)=2 sinleft(fraca-b2right) cosleft(fraca+b2right),$ with $,a=4x,b=3x,$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
When a cubic equation has are $3$ real roots, one uses a⦠trigonometric substitution: $;t=Acos theta$, and choose $A>0$ so we can use the formula for $cos 3theta$, and I doubt it is very useful in this case.
Now the trigonometric equation $;sin 3x=sin 4x$ is very simple to
solve with elementary tools:
Just remember the basics of trigonometric equations:
beginalign
sin x&=sinalphaiff begincasessequivalphamod 2pi\[-1ex]qquadtext or \[-1ex]xequivpi-alphamod 2piendcases\[1ex]
cos x&=cosalphaiff x equivpmalphamod 2pi \[1ex]
tan x&=tanalphaiff x equivalphamod pi.
endalign
Therefore, the solutions of the trigonometric equation satisfy
begincases
4xequiv 3xmod 2piiff xequiv 0mod 2pi \[-1ex]qquadtext or \[-1ex]
4xequiv pi- 3xmod 2piiff 7xequivpimod 2piiff xequivdfracpi7mod dfrac2pi7.
endcases
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Solving the equation $8t^3-4t^2-4t+1=0$
If you are familiar with numerical methods, you can use Newton's method to get one numerical solution. After that you might use long division to reduce to a quadratic equation and solve with the pq-formula.
But this will not give 100% accurate solutions.
So the roots of this cubic equation cannot be expressed in radical form? (closed form)
â James Warthington
Aug 10 at 19:01
I am sure, that they can, but this is not trivial. Will Jagy gave a nice answer.
â Cornman
Aug 10 at 19:08
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
As Will has said, when you make the substitution $x=2t$, then your polynomial instantly becomes
$$P(x)=x^3+x^2-2x-1$$
The roots can be shown to be equal to$$beginalign*x_1 & =2cosfrac 2pi7\ x_2 & =2cosfrac 4pi7\x_3 & =2cosfrac 8pi7endalign*$$
First, make the transformation $x=u+u^-1$ and expand to get that
$$frac u^6+u^5+u^4+u^3+u^2+u+1u^3=0$$Multiply both sides by $u-1$ and clear the fraction to get$$u^7=1$$
Through DeMoivreâÂÂs Theorem, the solution to $u$ is simply$$u=e^2kpi i/7$$where $k=0,1,2,ldots,6$. Therefore, by the original substitution$$x=e^2kpi i/7+e^-2kpi i/7=2cosfrac 2kpi7$$
Now, make the appropriate substitutions for $k$ and multiply the result by $2$ to get back to $t$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
We have that
$$sin3x=sin4x implies begincases3x=4x+2kpiimplies x=2kpi\3x=pi-4x+2kpiimplies x=fracpi7+frac2kpi7endcases$$
add a comment |Â
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Added, Saturday: Gauss initiated the study of cyclotomic, umm, numbers, and a simple method for creating polynomials for which they were roots. This is discussed in modern terminology HERE. The jpeg at the bottom is from an 1875 book by Reuschle, with many, many such calculations. I put a list of such cubics with prime denominator at http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2022216/on-the-trigonometric-roots-of-a-cubic/2022887#2022887 With prime denominator, the cubic is $x^3 + x^2 - left( fracp-13 right) x + c$ with an integer $c.$ For denominator $9$ it is $x^3 - 3 x + 1$ instead, page 174 in Reuschle.
ORIGINAL. umm. The roots of
$$ x^3 + x^2 - 2 x - 1 $$
are
$$ 2 cos frac2pi7 ; , ; ; 2 cos frac4pi7 ; , ; ; 2 cos frac6pi7 ; . ; ; $$
Taking $$ x = -2t $$ gives
$$ -8t^3 + 4 t^2 + 4 t - 1 $$
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Added, Saturday: Gauss initiated the study of cyclotomic, umm, numbers, and a simple method for creating polynomials for which they were roots. This is discussed in modern terminology HERE. The jpeg at the bottom is from an 1875 book by Reuschle, with many, many such calculations. I put a list of such cubics with prime denominator at http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2022216/on-the-trigonometric-roots-of-a-cubic/2022887#2022887 With prime denominator, the cubic is $x^3 + x^2 - left( fracp-13 right) x + c$ with an integer $c.$ For denominator $9$ it is $x^3 - 3 x + 1$ instead, page 174 in Reuschle.
ORIGINAL. umm. The roots of
$$ x^3 + x^2 - 2 x - 1 $$
are
$$ 2 cos frac2pi7 ; , ; ; 2 cos frac4pi7 ; , ; ; 2 cos frac6pi7 ; . ; ; $$
Taking $$ x = -2t $$ gives
$$ -8t^3 + 4 t^2 + 4 t - 1 $$
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Added, Saturday: Gauss initiated the study of cyclotomic, umm, numbers, and a simple method for creating polynomials for which they were roots. This is discussed in modern terminology HERE. The jpeg at the bottom is from an 1875 book by Reuschle, with many, many such calculations. I put a list of such cubics with prime denominator at http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2022216/on-the-trigonometric-roots-of-a-cubic/2022887#2022887 With prime denominator, the cubic is $x^3 + x^2 - left( fracp-13 right) x + c$ with an integer $c.$ For denominator $9$ it is $x^3 - 3 x + 1$ instead, page 174 in Reuschle.
ORIGINAL. umm. The roots of
$$ x^3 + x^2 - 2 x - 1 $$
are
$$ 2 cos frac2pi7 ; , ; ; 2 cos frac4pi7 ; , ; ; 2 cos frac6pi7 ; . ; ; $$
Taking $$ x = -2t $$ gives
$$ -8t^3 + 4 t^2 + 4 t - 1 $$
Added, Saturday: Gauss initiated the study of cyclotomic, umm, numbers, and a simple method for creating polynomials for which they were roots. This is discussed in modern terminology HERE. The jpeg at the bottom is from an 1875 book by Reuschle, with many, many such calculations. I put a list of such cubics with prime denominator at http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2022216/on-the-trigonometric-roots-of-a-cubic/2022887#2022887 With prime denominator, the cubic is $x^3 + x^2 - left( fracp-13 right) x + c$ with an integer $c.$ For denominator $9$ it is $x^3 - 3 x + 1$ instead, page 174 in Reuschle.
ORIGINAL. umm. The roots of
$$ x^3 + x^2 - 2 x - 1 $$
are
$$ 2 cos frac2pi7 ; , ; ; 2 cos frac4pi7 ; , ; ; 2 cos frac6pi7 ; . ; ; $$
Taking $$ x = -2t $$ gives
$$ -8t^3 + 4 t^2 + 4 t - 1 $$
edited Aug 11 at 19:04
answered Aug 10 at 19:07
Will Jagy
97.4k595196
97.4k595196
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
solving the trigonometric equation $sin3x=sin4x$
Hint: Â use $,sin(a)-sin(b)=2 sinleft(fraca-b2right) cosleft(fraca+b2right),$ with $,a=4x,b=3x,$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
solving the trigonometric equation $sin3x=sin4x$
Hint: Â use $,sin(a)-sin(b)=2 sinleft(fraca-b2right) cosleft(fraca+b2right),$ with $,a=4x,b=3x,$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
solving the trigonometric equation $sin3x=sin4x$
Hint: Â use $,sin(a)-sin(b)=2 sinleft(fraca-b2right) cosleft(fraca+b2right),$ with $,a=4x,b=3x,$.
solving the trigonometric equation $sin3x=sin4x$
Hint: Â use $,sin(a)-sin(b)=2 sinleft(fraca-b2right) cosleft(fraca+b2right),$ with $,a=4x,b=3x,$.
answered Aug 10 at 18:57
dxiv
54.7k64798
54.7k64798
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
When a cubic equation has are $3$ real roots, one uses a⦠trigonometric substitution: $;t=Acos theta$, and choose $A>0$ so we can use the formula for $cos 3theta$, and I doubt it is very useful in this case.
Now the trigonometric equation $;sin 3x=sin 4x$ is very simple to
solve with elementary tools:
Just remember the basics of trigonometric equations:
beginalign
sin x&=sinalphaiff begincasessequivalphamod 2pi\[-1ex]qquadtext or \[-1ex]xequivpi-alphamod 2piendcases\[1ex]
cos x&=cosalphaiff x equivpmalphamod 2pi \[1ex]
tan x&=tanalphaiff x equivalphamod pi.
endalign
Therefore, the solutions of the trigonometric equation satisfy
begincases
4xequiv 3xmod 2piiff xequiv 0mod 2pi \[-1ex]qquadtext or \[-1ex]
4xequiv pi- 3xmod 2piiff 7xequivpimod 2piiff xequivdfracpi7mod dfrac2pi7.
endcases
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
When a cubic equation has are $3$ real roots, one uses a⦠trigonometric substitution: $;t=Acos theta$, and choose $A>0$ so we can use the formula for $cos 3theta$, and I doubt it is very useful in this case.
Now the trigonometric equation $;sin 3x=sin 4x$ is very simple to
solve with elementary tools:
Just remember the basics of trigonometric equations:
beginalign
sin x&=sinalphaiff begincasessequivalphamod 2pi\[-1ex]qquadtext or \[-1ex]xequivpi-alphamod 2piendcases\[1ex]
cos x&=cosalphaiff x equivpmalphamod 2pi \[1ex]
tan x&=tanalphaiff x equivalphamod pi.
endalign
Therefore, the solutions of the trigonometric equation satisfy
begincases
4xequiv 3xmod 2piiff xequiv 0mod 2pi \[-1ex]qquadtext or \[-1ex]
4xequiv pi- 3xmod 2piiff 7xequivpimod 2piiff xequivdfracpi7mod dfrac2pi7.
endcases
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
When a cubic equation has are $3$ real roots, one uses a⦠trigonometric substitution: $;t=Acos theta$, and choose $A>0$ so we can use the formula for $cos 3theta$, and I doubt it is very useful in this case.
Now the trigonometric equation $;sin 3x=sin 4x$ is very simple to
solve with elementary tools:
Just remember the basics of trigonometric equations:
beginalign
sin x&=sinalphaiff begincasessequivalphamod 2pi\[-1ex]qquadtext or \[-1ex]xequivpi-alphamod 2piendcases\[1ex]
cos x&=cosalphaiff x equivpmalphamod 2pi \[1ex]
tan x&=tanalphaiff x equivalphamod pi.
endalign
Therefore, the solutions of the trigonometric equation satisfy
begincases
4xequiv 3xmod 2piiff xequiv 0mod 2pi \[-1ex]qquadtext or \[-1ex]
4xequiv pi- 3xmod 2piiff 7xequivpimod 2piiff xequivdfracpi7mod dfrac2pi7.
endcases
When a cubic equation has are $3$ real roots, one uses a⦠trigonometric substitution: $;t=Acos theta$, and choose $A>0$ so we can use the formula for $cos 3theta$, and I doubt it is very useful in this case.
Now the trigonometric equation $;sin 3x=sin 4x$ is very simple to
solve with elementary tools:
Just remember the basics of trigonometric equations:
beginalign
sin x&=sinalphaiff begincasessequivalphamod 2pi\[-1ex]qquadtext or \[-1ex]xequivpi-alphamod 2piendcases\[1ex]
cos x&=cosalphaiff x equivpmalphamod 2pi \[1ex]
tan x&=tanalphaiff x equivalphamod pi.
endalign
Therefore, the solutions of the trigonometric equation satisfy
begincases
4xequiv 3xmod 2piiff xequiv 0mod 2pi \[-1ex]qquadtext or \[-1ex]
4xequiv pi- 3xmod 2piiff 7xequivpimod 2piiff xequivdfracpi7mod dfrac2pi7.
endcases
answered Aug 10 at 19:28
Bernard
111k635103
111k635103
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Solving the equation $8t^3-4t^2-4t+1=0$
If you are familiar with numerical methods, you can use Newton's method to get one numerical solution. After that you might use long division to reduce to a quadratic equation and solve with the pq-formula.
But this will not give 100% accurate solutions.
So the roots of this cubic equation cannot be expressed in radical form? (closed form)
â James Warthington
Aug 10 at 19:01
I am sure, that they can, but this is not trivial. Will Jagy gave a nice answer.
â Cornman
Aug 10 at 19:08
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Solving the equation $8t^3-4t^2-4t+1=0$
If you are familiar with numerical methods, you can use Newton's method to get one numerical solution. After that you might use long division to reduce to a quadratic equation and solve with the pq-formula.
But this will not give 100% accurate solutions.
So the roots of this cubic equation cannot be expressed in radical form? (closed form)
â James Warthington
Aug 10 at 19:01
I am sure, that they can, but this is not trivial. Will Jagy gave a nice answer.
â Cornman
Aug 10 at 19:08
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Solving the equation $8t^3-4t^2-4t+1=0$
If you are familiar with numerical methods, you can use Newton's method to get one numerical solution. After that you might use long division to reduce to a quadratic equation and solve with the pq-formula.
But this will not give 100% accurate solutions.
Solving the equation $8t^3-4t^2-4t+1=0$
If you are familiar with numerical methods, you can use Newton's method to get one numerical solution. After that you might use long division to reduce to a quadratic equation and solve with the pq-formula.
But this will not give 100% accurate solutions.
answered Aug 10 at 18:56
Cornman
2,55221128
2,55221128
So the roots of this cubic equation cannot be expressed in radical form? (closed form)
â James Warthington
Aug 10 at 19:01
I am sure, that they can, but this is not trivial. Will Jagy gave a nice answer.
â Cornman
Aug 10 at 19:08
add a comment |Â
So the roots of this cubic equation cannot be expressed in radical form? (closed form)
â James Warthington
Aug 10 at 19:01
I am sure, that they can, but this is not trivial. Will Jagy gave a nice answer.
â Cornman
Aug 10 at 19:08
So the roots of this cubic equation cannot be expressed in radical form? (closed form)
â James Warthington
Aug 10 at 19:01
So the roots of this cubic equation cannot be expressed in radical form? (closed form)
â James Warthington
Aug 10 at 19:01
I am sure, that they can, but this is not trivial. Will Jagy gave a nice answer.
â Cornman
Aug 10 at 19:08
I am sure, that they can, but this is not trivial. Will Jagy gave a nice answer.
â Cornman
Aug 10 at 19:08
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
As Will has said, when you make the substitution $x=2t$, then your polynomial instantly becomes
$$P(x)=x^3+x^2-2x-1$$
The roots can be shown to be equal to$$beginalign*x_1 & =2cosfrac 2pi7\ x_2 & =2cosfrac 4pi7\x_3 & =2cosfrac 8pi7endalign*$$
First, make the transformation $x=u+u^-1$ and expand to get that
$$frac u^6+u^5+u^4+u^3+u^2+u+1u^3=0$$Multiply both sides by $u-1$ and clear the fraction to get$$u^7=1$$
Through DeMoivreâÂÂs Theorem, the solution to $u$ is simply$$u=e^2kpi i/7$$where $k=0,1,2,ldots,6$. Therefore, by the original substitution$$x=e^2kpi i/7+e^-2kpi i/7=2cosfrac 2kpi7$$
Now, make the appropriate substitutions for $k$ and multiply the result by $2$ to get back to $t$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
As Will has said, when you make the substitution $x=2t$, then your polynomial instantly becomes
$$P(x)=x^3+x^2-2x-1$$
The roots can be shown to be equal to$$beginalign*x_1 & =2cosfrac 2pi7\ x_2 & =2cosfrac 4pi7\x_3 & =2cosfrac 8pi7endalign*$$
First, make the transformation $x=u+u^-1$ and expand to get that
$$frac u^6+u^5+u^4+u^3+u^2+u+1u^3=0$$Multiply both sides by $u-1$ and clear the fraction to get$$u^7=1$$
Through DeMoivreâÂÂs Theorem, the solution to $u$ is simply$$u=e^2kpi i/7$$where $k=0,1,2,ldots,6$. Therefore, by the original substitution$$x=e^2kpi i/7+e^-2kpi i/7=2cosfrac 2kpi7$$
Now, make the appropriate substitutions for $k$ and multiply the result by $2$ to get back to $t$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
As Will has said, when you make the substitution $x=2t$, then your polynomial instantly becomes
$$P(x)=x^3+x^2-2x-1$$
The roots can be shown to be equal to$$beginalign*x_1 & =2cosfrac 2pi7\ x_2 & =2cosfrac 4pi7\x_3 & =2cosfrac 8pi7endalign*$$
First, make the transformation $x=u+u^-1$ and expand to get that
$$frac u^6+u^5+u^4+u^3+u^2+u+1u^3=0$$Multiply both sides by $u-1$ and clear the fraction to get$$u^7=1$$
Through DeMoivreâÂÂs Theorem, the solution to $u$ is simply$$u=e^2kpi i/7$$where $k=0,1,2,ldots,6$. Therefore, by the original substitution$$x=e^2kpi i/7+e^-2kpi i/7=2cosfrac 2kpi7$$
Now, make the appropriate substitutions for $k$ and multiply the result by $2$ to get back to $t$.
As Will has said, when you make the substitution $x=2t$, then your polynomial instantly becomes
$$P(x)=x^3+x^2-2x-1$$
The roots can be shown to be equal to$$beginalign*x_1 & =2cosfrac 2pi7\ x_2 & =2cosfrac 4pi7\x_3 & =2cosfrac 8pi7endalign*$$
First, make the transformation $x=u+u^-1$ and expand to get that
$$frac u^6+u^5+u^4+u^3+u^2+u+1u^3=0$$Multiply both sides by $u-1$ and clear the fraction to get$$u^7=1$$
Through DeMoivreâÂÂs Theorem, the solution to $u$ is simply$$u=e^2kpi i/7$$where $k=0,1,2,ldots,6$. Therefore, by the original substitution$$x=e^2kpi i/7+e^-2kpi i/7=2cosfrac 2kpi7$$
Now, make the appropriate substitutions for $k$ and multiply the result by $2$ to get back to $t$.
answered Aug 10 at 19:27
Frank W.
1,9661315
1,9661315
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
We have that
$$sin3x=sin4x implies begincases3x=4x+2kpiimplies x=2kpi\3x=pi-4x+2kpiimplies x=fracpi7+frac2kpi7endcases$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
We have that
$$sin3x=sin4x implies begincases3x=4x+2kpiimplies x=2kpi\3x=pi-4x+2kpiimplies x=fracpi7+frac2kpi7endcases$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
up vote
-1
down vote
We have that
$$sin3x=sin4x implies begincases3x=4x+2kpiimplies x=2kpi\3x=pi-4x+2kpiimplies x=fracpi7+frac2kpi7endcases$$
We have that
$$sin3x=sin4x implies begincases3x=4x+2kpiimplies x=2kpi\3x=pi-4x+2kpiimplies x=fracpi7+frac2kpi7endcases$$
answered Aug 10 at 19:40
gimusi
66.1k73685
66.1k73685
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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1
The roots of this cubic aren't pretty. $tsim 0.62349, 0.22252,0.90097$
â Rushabh Mehta
Aug 10 at 18:53
Also see here
â John
Aug 10 at 19:00
See also : math.stackexchange.com/questions/638874/â¦
â lab bhattacharjee
Aug 13 at 11:28