Clock losing time puzzle
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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1
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The question goes as:
A wall clock and a Table clock are set to correct time today on 10 pm. The wall clock loses 3 minute in 1st hour, 6 minutes in the second hour and 9 minutes in the third hour and so on. The table clock loses 5 minutes in the 1st hour, 10 minutes in the second hour and 15 minutes in the third hour and so on. When will they show the same time?
My approach:
In the first hour, the difference between the two clocks would be $2$ (obtained from $5-3$) minutes.
In the second hour, it'll be four minutes and so on. This would form an arithmetic progression with $a$ = 2 and $d = 2$. I, then, formulated the problem as:
$$2 + 4 + 6+ 8 + dots + n = 720 $$
The RHS is $720$ because I assumed they'll meet after 12 hours.
With this, I got the root as $23.337$ hours, so I arrived at the answer as $10 , textPM + 23.337$ hours i.e $9:20 , textPM $.
Is this correct?
EDIT: I realised this equation won't give an integral answer, and we need one as $n$ on the LHS represents the number of terms. So instead of that, I wrote it as:
$$2 + 4 + 6 + dots + n = 720 times k$$ where $k in (1,2,3,4, dots)$.
Using this method, for $k = 9$, I get the value of $n$ $textas$ $80 , texthours$.
Does this seem correct?
puzzle
 |Â
show 10 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
The question goes as:
A wall clock and a Table clock are set to correct time today on 10 pm. The wall clock loses 3 minute in 1st hour, 6 minutes in the second hour and 9 minutes in the third hour and so on. The table clock loses 5 minutes in the 1st hour, 10 minutes in the second hour and 15 minutes in the third hour and so on. When will they show the same time?
My approach:
In the first hour, the difference between the two clocks would be $2$ (obtained from $5-3$) minutes.
In the second hour, it'll be four minutes and so on. This would form an arithmetic progression with $a$ = 2 and $d = 2$. I, then, formulated the problem as:
$$2 + 4 + 6+ 8 + dots + n = 720 $$
The RHS is $720$ because I assumed they'll meet after 12 hours.
With this, I got the root as $23.337$ hours, so I arrived at the answer as $10 , textPM + 23.337$ hours i.e $9:20 , textPM $.
Is this correct?
EDIT: I realised this equation won't give an integral answer, and we need one as $n$ on the LHS represents the number of terms. So instead of that, I wrote it as:
$$2 + 4 + 6 + dots + n = 720 times k$$ where $k in (1,2,3,4, dots)$.
Using this method, for $k = 9$, I get the value of $n$ $textas$ $80 , texthours$.
Does this seem correct?
puzzle
1
It's not mentioned in the problem, but I think they mean a 12 hour clock as they've mentioned PM. EDIT: I am not sure why it isn't a valid time in a 12 hour clock?
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:04
1
simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock According to this, 12:20 AM seems like a valid time in a 12-hour clock.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:14
1
@WeatherVane: Can you explain why12:20 AM
is not valid? At nighttime, I always see this number, though I always wish it was much earlier...
â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:15
1
@dan_fulea: I think he means that if we have a third, accurate clock, when it shows $11:00PM$, the first clock will read $10:57PM$ and the second clock will read $10:55PM$. When the third, accurate clock reads $12:00$AM, the first clock will read $11:51PM$ while the second clock reads $11:45PM$.
â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:17
2
Commonly known as military time, @WeatherVane. However, the question is clearly using 12 hour clock time: It says both clocks were set to the correct time at 10:00 pm, not at 22:00.
â amWhy
Aug 10 at 19:57
 |Â
show 10 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
The question goes as:
A wall clock and a Table clock are set to correct time today on 10 pm. The wall clock loses 3 minute in 1st hour, 6 minutes in the second hour and 9 minutes in the third hour and so on. The table clock loses 5 minutes in the 1st hour, 10 minutes in the second hour and 15 minutes in the third hour and so on. When will they show the same time?
My approach:
In the first hour, the difference between the two clocks would be $2$ (obtained from $5-3$) minutes.
In the second hour, it'll be four minutes and so on. This would form an arithmetic progression with $a$ = 2 and $d = 2$. I, then, formulated the problem as:
$$2 + 4 + 6+ 8 + dots + n = 720 $$
The RHS is $720$ because I assumed they'll meet after 12 hours.
With this, I got the root as $23.337$ hours, so I arrived at the answer as $10 , textPM + 23.337$ hours i.e $9:20 , textPM $.
Is this correct?
EDIT: I realised this equation won't give an integral answer, and we need one as $n$ on the LHS represents the number of terms. So instead of that, I wrote it as:
$$2 + 4 + 6 + dots + n = 720 times k$$ where $k in (1,2,3,4, dots)$.
Using this method, for $k = 9$, I get the value of $n$ $textas$ $80 , texthours$.
Does this seem correct?
puzzle
The question goes as:
A wall clock and a Table clock are set to correct time today on 10 pm. The wall clock loses 3 minute in 1st hour, 6 minutes in the second hour and 9 minutes in the third hour and so on. The table clock loses 5 minutes in the 1st hour, 10 minutes in the second hour and 15 minutes in the third hour and so on. When will they show the same time?
My approach:
In the first hour, the difference between the two clocks would be $2$ (obtained from $5-3$) minutes.
In the second hour, it'll be four minutes and so on. This would form an arithmetic progression with $a$ = 2 and $d = 2$. I, then, formulated the problem as:
$$2 + 4 + 6+ 8 + dots + n = 720 $$
The RHS is $720$ because I assumed they'll meet after 12 hours.
With this, I got the root as $23.337$ hours, so I arrived at the answer as $10 , textPM + 23.337$ hours i.e $9:20 , textPM $.
Is this correct?
EDIT: I realised this equation won't give an integral answer, and we need one as $n$ on the LHS represents the number of terms. So instead of that, I wrote it as:
$$2 + 4 + 6 + dots + n = 720 times k$$ where $k in (1,2,3,4, dots)$.
Using this method, for $k = 9$, I get the value of $n$ $textas$ $80 , texthours$.
Does this seem correct?
puzzle
edited Aug 10 at 19:42
asked Aug 10 at 19:01
Gokul
177218
177218
1
It's not mentioned in the problem, but I think they mean a 12 hour clock as they've mentioned PM. EDIT: I am not sure why it isn't a valid time in a 12 hour clock?
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:04
1
simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock According to this, 12:20 AM seems like a valid time in a 12-hour clock.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:14
1
@WeatherVane: Can you explain why12:20 AM
is not valid? At nighttime, I always see this number, though I always wish it was much earlier...
â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:15
1
@dan_fulea: I think he means that if we have a third, accurate clock, when it shows $11:00PM$, the first clock will read $10:57PM$ and the second clock will read $10:55PM$. When the third, accurate clock reads $12:00$AM, the first clock will read $11:51PM$ while the second clock reads $11:45PM$.
â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:17
2
Commonly known as military time, @WeatherVane. However, the question is clearly using 12 hour clock time: It says both clocks were set to the correct time at 10:00 pm, not at 22:00.
â amWhy
Aug 10 at 19:57
 |Â
show 10 more comments
1
It's not mentioned in the problem, but I think they mean a 12 hour clock as they've mentioned PM. EDIT: I am not sure why it isn't a valid time in a 12 hour clock?
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:04
1
simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock According to this, 12:20 AM seems like a valid time in a 12-hour clock.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:14
1
@WeatherVane: Can you explain why12:20 AM
is not valid? At nighttime, I always see this number, though I always wish it was much earlier...
â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:15
1
@dan_fulea: I think he means that if we have a third, accurate clock, when it shows $11:00PM$, the first clock will read $10:57PM$ and the second clock will read $10:55PM$. When the third, accurate clock reads $12:00$AM, the first clock will read $11:51PM$ while the second clock reads $11:45PM$.
â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:17
2
Commonly known as military time, @WeatherVane. However, the question is clearly using 12 hour clock time: It says both clocks were set to the correct time at 10:00 pm, not at 22:00.
â amWhy
Aug 10 at 19:57
1
1
It's not mentioned in the problem, but I think they mean a 12 hour clock as they've mentioned PM. EDIT: I am not sure why it isn't a valid time in a 12 hour clock?
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:04
It's not mentioned in the problem, but I think they mean a 12 hour clock as they've mentioned PM. EDIT: I am not sure why it isn't a valid time in a 12 hour clock?
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:04
1
1
simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock According to this, 12:20 AM seems like a valid time in a 12-hour clock.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:14
simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock According to this, 12:20 AM seems like a valid time in a 12-hour clock.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:14
1
1
@WeatherVane: Can you explain why
12:20 AM
is not valid? At nighttime, I always see this number, though I always wish it was much earlier...â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:15
@WeatherVane: Can you explain why
12:20 AM
is not valid? At nighttime, I always see this number, though I always wish it was much earlier...â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:15
1
1
@dan_fulea: I think he means that if we have a third, accurate clock, when it shows $11:00PM$, the first clock will read $10:57PM$ and the second clock will read $10:55PM$. When the third, accurate clock reads $12:00$AM, the first clock will read $11:51PM$ while the second clock reads $11:45PM$.
â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:17
@dan_fulea: I think he means that if we have a third, accurate clock, when it shows $11:00PM$, the first clock will read $10:57PM$ and the second clock will read $10:55PM$. When the third, accurate clock reads $12:00$AM, the first clock will read $11:51PM$ while the second clock reads $11:45PM$.
â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:17
2
2
Commonly known as military time, @WeatherVane. However, the question is clearly using 12 hour clock time: It says both clocks were set to the correct time at 10:00 pm, not at 22:00.
â amWhy
Aug 10 at 19:57
Commonly known as military time, @WeatherVane. However, the question is clearly using 12 hour clock time: It says both clocks were set to the correct time at 10:00 pm, not at 22:00.
â amWhy
Aug 10 at 19:57
 |Â
show 10 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
It is ok. Let $f(t)$, and $g(t)$ be the functions in hours that indicate the hours of the two clocks, we consider the time starts at that 10:00
. Then we have:
$$
beginaligned
f(t) &=tleft( 1-frac 3120(t+1)right) ,\
g(t) &=tleft( 1-frac 5120(t+1)right) .
endaligned
$$
This is so because we expect interpolation polynomials of degree two (as in physics a uniformly accelerated movement), and the values in $0,1,2$ shoud (only) fit. In our case we have $f(0)=0$, $f(1)=1-6/120=1-3/60$, and $f(2)=2(1-9/120)=2-9/60$. Similarly for $g$. Then we solve the equation $f(t)-g(t)=12$. (The clock period is $12$ hours. We will soon see why this multiple of $12$ gets first hit.) This equation has the solution:
sage: var('t');
sage: f(t) = -3/120*t^2 + (1-3/120)*t
sage: g(t) = -5/120*t^2 + (1-5/120)*t
sage: (f(t)-g(t)).factor()
1/60*(t + 1)*t
sage: solve( f(t)-g(t) == 12, t )
[t == -1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2, t == 1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2]
sage: ( 1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2 ).n()
26.3374738006393
So the exact solution is $frac 12(sqrt2881-1)$. We solve the same equation as $displaystyleunderbrace2+4+dots+2n_=n(n+1)=720$ in the OP. (Stated in terms of the $n$, which also counts the hours.)
Here is the statistic of true hours, the times of the two clocks, and the difference.
sage: for t in [0..28]:
....: print ( "t=%2s wall=%5.2f table=%5.2f :: diff = %8.5f min"
....: % ( t, f(t), g(t), 60*(f(t)-g(t)) ) )
....:
t= 0 wall= 0.00 table= 0.00 :: diff = 0.00000 min
t= 1 wall= 0.95 table= 0.92 :: diff = 2.00000 min
t= 2 wall= 1.85 table= 1.75 :: diff = 6.00000 min
t= 3 wall= 2.70 table= 2.50 :: diff = 12.00000 min
t= 4 wall= 3.50 table= 3.17 :: diff = 20.00000 min
t= 5 wall= 4.25 table= 3.75 :: diff = 30.00000 min
t= 6 wall= 4.95 table= 4.25 :: diff = 42.00000 min
t= 7 wall= 5.60 table= 4.67 :: diff = 56.00000 min
t= 8 wall= 6.20 table= 5.00 :: diff = 72.00000 min
t= 9 wall= 6.75 table= 5.25 :: diff = 90.00000 min
t=10 wall= 7.25 table= 5.42 :: diff = 110.00000 min
t=11 wall= 7.70 table= 5.50 :: diff = 132.00000 min
t=12 wall= 8.10 table= 5.50 :: diff = 156.00000 min
t=13 wall= 8.45 table= 5.42 :: diff = 182.00000 min
t=14 wall= 8.75 table= 5.25 :: diff = 210.00000 min
t=15 wall= 9.00 table= 5.00 :: diff = 240.00000 min
t=16 wall= 9.20 table= 4.67 :: diff = 272.00000 min
t=17 wall= 9.35 table= 4.25 :: diff = 306.00000 min
t=18 wall= 9.45 table= 3.75 :: diff = 342.00000 min
t=19 wall= 9.50 table= 3.17 :: diff = 380.00000 min
t=20 wall= 9.50 table= 2.50 :: diff = 420.00000 min
t=21 wall= 9.45 table= 1.75 :: diff = 462.00000 min
t=22 wall= 9.35 table= 0.92 :: diff = 506.00000 min
t=23 wall= 9.20 table= 0.00 :: diff = 552.00000 min
t=24 wall= 9.00 table=-1.00 :: diff = 600.00000 min
t=25 wall= 8.75 table=-2.08 :: diff = 650.00000 min
t=26 wall= 8.45 table=-3.25 :: diff = 702.00000 min
t=27 wall= 8.10 table=-4.50 :: diff = 756.00000 min
t=28 wall= 7.70 table=-5.83 :: diff = 812.00000 min
This is showing also how "realistic" the table clock makes time a better time. I really need this clock!
There is a point between $t=26$ and $t=27$ where we hit the $12$ hours, i.e. $720$ minutes. The solution is indeed located in this interval.
Note: Sage was used above, www.sagemath.org
â dan_fulea
Aug 10 at 20:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
With this, I got the root as 23.337 hours, so I arrived at the answer as 10PM+23.337 hours i.e 12:20AM.
23.33333.. is 2/3 of an hour less than a day, or 40 min less than a day. So 10PM+23.3333... is 10PM+1day-40 min, or 9:20PM.
There are several different interpretations of this problem. For one thing, "lose a minute" is ambiguous. It could mean "be 1 minute behind" or "be 1 more minute behind". Under the first interpretation, the difference increases by 2 minutes each hour, so it will take 30 hours to differ by an hour, and 360 hours, or 15 days, to differ by 12 hours. There is now a further ambiguity as to what type of clocks they are; if they are 24-hour clocks, then it will take 720 hours, or 30 days, to show the same time.
If "lose a minute" means "be 1 more minute behind", then we need to make further assumptions. We can fit a quadratic equation to the data points given: after one hour, the wall clock shows 57 minutes. After 2 hours, it shows 111 minutes, etc. That gives the points (1,57), (2,11), (3,168). If x is the actual time in hours, and y is the shown time in minutes, then $y = 60x-frac3x(x+1)2$ fits these data points, but if the problem expects us to therefore conclude that this is the right equation, it is asking us to make something of a leap. Similarly, the equation $y = 60x-frac5x(x+1)2$ fits the table clock. The difference is then $frac2x(x+1)2$, or just $x(x+1)$. Solving for $x(x+1) = 720$, we get:
$x(x+1) = 720$
$x^2+x-720=0$
This gives the solutions 26.3375 and âÂÂ27.3375. The negative solution corresponds to some past time when they showed he same time, so we should take the positive one. This corresponds to 24+2.3375 hours, or 1 day, 2 hours, and .3375 hours. .3375 hours is 20.25 minutes. .25 minutes is 15 seconds. So this corresponds to 1 day, 2 hours, 20 minutes, and 15 seconds. Adding this to the initial time of 10PM gets to 12:20:15 AM on the second day (the day after the day after the clocks are set).
This matches the time you got, so perhaps your number 23.337 was a typo.
Yes, I got the root as $26.337$ but wrote it as $23.337$. Thank you for pointing it out.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 20:23
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
It is ok. Let $f(t)$, and $g(t)$ be the functions in hours that indicate the hours of the two clocks, we consider the time starts at that 10:00
. Then we have:
$$
beginaligned
f(t) &=tleft( 1-frac 3120(t+1)right) ,\
g(t) &=tleft( 1-frac 5120(t+1)right) .
endaligned
$$
This is so because we expect interpolation polynomials of degree two (as in physics a uniformly accelerated movement), and the values in $0,1,2$ shoud (only) fit. In our case we have $f(0)=0$, $f(1)=1-6/120=1-3/60$, and $f(2)=2(1-9/120)=2-9/60$. Similarly for $g$. Then we solve the equation $f(t)-g(t)=12$. (The clock period is $12$ hours. We will soon see why this multiple of $12$ gets first hit.) This equation has the solution:
sage: var('t');
sage: f(t) = -3/120*t^2 + (1-3/120)*t
sage: g(t) = -5/120*t^2 + (1-5/120)*t
sage: (f(t)-g(t)).factor()
1/60*(t + 1)*t
sage: solve( f(t)-g(t) == 12, t )
[t == -1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2, t == 1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2]
sage: ( 1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2 ).n()
26.3374738006393
So the exact solution is $frac 12(sqrt2881-1)$. We solve the same equation as $displaystyleunderbrace2+4+dots+2n_=n(n+1)=720$ in the OP. (Stated in terms of the $n$, which also counts the hours.)
Here is the statistic of true hours, the times of the two clocks, and the difference.
sage: for t in [0..28]:
....: print ( "t=%2s wall=%5.2f table=%5.2f :: diff = %8.5f min"
....: % ( t, f(t), g(t), 60*(f(t)-g(t)) ) )
....:
t= 0 wall= 0.00 table= 0.00 :: diff = 0.00000 min
t= 1 wall= 0.95 table= 0.92 :: diff = 2.00000 min
t= 2 wall= 1.85 table= 1.75 :: diff = 6.00000 min
t= 3 wall= 2.70 table= 2.50 :: diff = 12.00000 min
t= 4 wall= 3.50 table= 3.17 :: diff = 20.00000 min
t= 5 wall= 4.25 table= 3.75 :: diff = 30.00000 min
t= 6 wall= 4.95 table= 4.25 :: diff = 42.00000 min
t= 7 wall= 5.60 table= 4.67 :: diff = 56.00000 min
t= 8 wall= 6.20 table= 5.00 :: diff = 72.00000 min
t= 9 wall= 6.75 table= 5.25 :: diff = 90.00000 min
t=10 wall= 7.25 table= 5.42 :: diff = 110.00000 min
t=11 wall= 7.70 table= 5.50 :: diff = 132.00000 min
t=12 wall= 8.10 table= 5.50 :: diff = 156.00000 min
t=13 wall= 8.45 table= 5.42 :: diff = 182.00000 min
t=14 wall= 8.75 table= 5.25 :: diff = 210.00000 min
t=15 wall= 9.00 table= 5.00 :: diff = 240.00000 min
t=16 wall= 9.20 table= 4.67 :: diff = 272.00000 min
t=17 wall= 9.35 table= 4.25 :: diff = 306.00000 min
t=18 wall= 9.45 table= 3.75 :: diff = 342.00000 min
t=19 wall= 9.50 table= 3.17 :: diff = 380.00000 min
t=20 wall= 9.50 table= 2.50 :: diff = 420.00000 min
t=21 wall= 9.45 table= 1.75 :: diff = 462.00000 min
t=22 wall= 9.35 table= 0.92 :: diff = 506.00000 min
t=23 wall= 9.20 table= 0.00 :: diff = 552.00000 min
t=24 wall= 9.00 table=-1.00 :: diff = 600.00000 min
t=25 wall= 8.75 table=-2.08 :: diff = 650.00000 min
t=26 wall= 8.45 table=-3.25 :: diff = 702.00000 min
t=27 wall= 8.10 table=-4.50 :: diff = 756.00000 min
t=28 wall= 7.70 table=-5.83 :: diff = 812.00000 min
This is showing also how "realistic" the table clock makes time a better time. I really need this clock!
There is a point between $t=26$ and $t=27$ where we hit the $12$ hours, i.e. $720$ minutes. The solution is indeed located in this interval.
Note: Sage was used above, www.sagemath.org
â dan_fulea
Aug 10 at 20:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
It is ok. Let $f(t)$, and $g(t)$ be the functions in hours that indicate the hours of the two clocks, we consider the time starts at that 10:00
. Then we have:
$$
beginaligned
f(t) &=tleft( 1-frac 3120(t+1)right) ,\
g(t) &=tleft( 1-frac 5120(t+1)right) .
endaligned
$$
This is so because we expect interpolation polynomials of degree two (as in physics a uniformly accelerated movement), and the values in $0,1,2$ shoud (only) fit. In our case we have $f(0)=0$, $f(1)=1-6/120=1-3/60$, and $f(2)=2(1-9/120)=2-9/60$. Similarly for $g$. Then we solve the equation $f(t)-g(t)=12$. (The clock period is $12$ hours. We will soon see why this multiple of $12$ gets first hit.) This equation has the solution:
sage: var('t');
sage: f(t) = -3/120*t^2 + (1-3/120)*t
sage: g(t) = -5/120*t^2 + (1-5/120)*t
sage: (f(t)-g(t)).factor()
1/60*(t + 1)*t
sage: solve( f(t)-g(t) == 12, t )
[t == -1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2, t == 1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2]
sage: ( 1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2 ).n()
26.3374738006393
So the exact solution is $frac 12(sqrt2881-1)$. We solve the same equation as $displaystyleunderbrace2+4+dots+2n_=n(n+1)=720$ in the OP. (Stated in terms of the $n$, which also counts the hours.)
Here is the statistic of true hours, the times of the two clocks, and the difference.
sage: for t in [0..28]:
....: print ( "t=%2s wall=%5.2f table=%5.2f :: diff = %8.5f min"
....: % ( t, f(t), g(t), 60*(f(t)-g(t)) ) )
....:
t= 0 wall= 0.00 table= 0.00 :: diff = 0.00000 min
t= 1 wall= 0.95 table= 0.92 :: diff = 2.00000 min
t= 2 wall= 1.85 table= 1.75 :: diff = 6.00000 min
t= 3 wall= 2.70 table= 2.50 :: diff = 12.00000 min
t= 4 wall= 3.50 table= 3.17 :: diff = 20.00000 min
t= 5 wall= 4.25 table= 3.75 :: diff = 30.00000 min
t= 6 wall= 4.95 table= 4.25 :: diff = 42.00000 min
t= 7 wall= 5.60 table= 4.67 :: diff = 56.00000 min
t= 8 wall= 6.20 table= 5.00 :: diff = 72.00000 min
t= 9 wall= 6.75 table= 5.25 :: diff = 90.00000 min
t=10 wall= 7.25 table= 5.42 :: diff = 110.00000 min
t=11 wall= 7.70 table= 5.50 :: diff = 132.00000 min
t=12 wall= 8.10 table= 5.50 :: diff = 156.00000 min
t=13 wall= 8.45 table= 5.42 :: diff = 182.00000 min
t=14 wall= 8.75 table= 5.25 :: diff = 210.00000 min
t=15 wall= 9.00 table= 5.00 :: diff = 240.00000 min
t=16 wall= 9.20 table= 4.67 :: diff = 272.00000 min
t=17 wall= 9.35 table= 4.25 :: diff = 306.00000 min
t=18 wall= 9.45 table= 3.75 :: diff = 342.00000 min
t=19 wall= 9.50 table= 3.17 :: diff = 380.00000 min
t=20 wall= 9.50 table= 2.50 :: diff = 420.00000 min
t=21 wall= 9.45 table= 1.75 :: diff = 462.00000 min
t=22 wall= 9.35 table= 0.92 :: diff = 506.00000 min
t=23 wall= 9.20 table= 0.00 :: diff = 552.00000 min
t=24 wall= 9.00 table=-1.00 :: diff = 600.00000 min
t=25 wall= 8.75 table=-2.08 :: diff = 650.00000 min
t=26 wall= 8.45 table=-3.25 :: diff = 702.00000 min
t=27 wall= 8.10 table=-4.50 :: diff = 756.00000 min
t=28 wall= 7.70 table=-5.83 :: diff = 812.00000 min
This is showing also how "realistic" the table clock makes time a better time. I really need this clock!
There is a point between $t=26$ and $t=27$ where we hit the $12$ hours, i.e. $720$ minutes. The solution is indeed located in this interval.
Note: Sage was used above, www.sagemath.org
â dan_fulea
Aug 10 at 20:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
It is ok. Let $f(t)$, and $g(t)$ be the functions in hours that indicate the hours of the two clocks, we consider the time starts at that 10:00
. Then we have:
$$
beginaligned
f(t) &=tleft( 1-frac 3120(t+1)right) ,\
g(t) &=tleft( 1-frac 5120(t+1)right) .
endaligned
$$
This is so because we expect interpolation polynomials of degree two (as in physics a uniformly accelerated movement), and the values in $0,1,2$ shoud (only) fit. In our case we have $f(0)=0$, $f(1)=1-6/120=1-3/60$, and $f(2)=2(1-9/120)=2-9/60$. Similarly for $g$. Then we solve the equation $f(t)-g(t)=12$. (The clock period is $12$ hours. We will soon see why this multiple of $12$ gets first hit.) This equation has the solution:
sage: var('t');
sage: f(t) = -3/120*t^2 + (1-3/120)*t
sage: g(t) = -5/120*t^2 + (1-5/120)*t
sage: (f(t)-g(t)).factor()
1/60*(t + 1)*t
sage: solve( f(t)-g(t) == 12, t )
[t == -1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2, t == 1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2]
sage: ( 1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2 ).n()
26.3374738006393
So the exact solution is $frac 12(sqrt2881-1)$. We solve the same equation as $displaystyleunderbrace2+4+dots+2n_=n(n+1)=720$ in the OP. (Stated in terms of the $n$, which also counts the hours.)
Here is the statistic of true hours, the times of the two clocks, and the difference.
sage: for t in [0..28]:
....: print ( "t=%2s wall=%5.2f table=%5.2f :: diff = %8.5f min"
....: % ( t, f(t), g(t), 60*(f(t)-g(t)) ) )
....:
t= 0 wall= 0.00 table= 0.00 :: diff = 0.00000 min
t= 1 wall= 0.95 table= 0.92 :: diff = 2.00000 min
t= 2 wall= 1.85 table= 1.75 :: diff = 6.00000 min
t= 3 wall= 2.70 table= 2.50 :: diff = 12.00000 min
t= 4 wall= 3.50 table= 3.17 :: diff = 20.00000 min
t= 5 wall= 4.25 table= 3.75 :: diff = 30.00000 min
t= 6 wall= 4.95 table= 4.25 :: diff = 42.00000 min
t= 7 wall= 5.60 table= 4.67 :: diff = 56.00000 min
t= 8 wall= 6.20 table= 5.00 :: diff = 72.00000 min
t= 9 wall= 6.75 table= 5.25 :: diff = 90.00000 min
t=10 wall= 7.25 table= 5.42 :: diff = 110.00000 min
t=11 wall= 7.70 table= 5.50 :: diff = 132.00000 min
t=12 wall= 8.10 table= 5.50 :: diff = 156.00000 min
t=13 wall= 8.45 table= 5.42 :: diff = 182.00000 min
t=14 wall= 8.75 table= 5.25 :: diff = 210.00000 min
t=15 wall= 9.00 table= 5.00 :: diff = 240.00000 min
t=16 wall= 9.20 table= 4.67 :: diff = 272.00000 min
t=17 wall= 9.35 table= 4.25 :: diff = 306.00000 min
t=18 wall= 9.45 table= 3.75 :: diff = 342.00000 min
t=19 wall= 9.50 table= 3.17 :: diff = 380.00000 min
t=20 wall= 9.50 table= 2.50 :: diff = 420.00000 min
t=21 wall= 9.45 table= 1.75 :: diff = 462.00000 min
t=22 wall= 9.35 table= 0.92 :: diff = 506.00000 min
t=23 wall= 9.20 table= 0.00 :: diff = 552.00000 min
t=24 wall= 9.00 table=-1.00 :: diff = 600.00000 min
t=25 wall= 8.75 table=-2.08 :: diff = 650.00000 min
t=26 wall= 8.45 table=-3.25 :: diff = 702.00000 min
t=27 wall= 8.10 table=-4.50 :: diff = 756.00000 min
t=28 wall= 7.70 table=-5.83 :: diff = 812.00000 min
This is showing also how "realistic" the table clock makes time a better time. I really need this clock!
There is a point between $t=26$ and $t=27$ where we hit the $12$ hours, i.e. $720$ minutes. The solution is indeed located in this interval.
It is ok. Let $f(t)$, and $g(t)$ be the functions in hours that indicate the hours of the two clocks, we consider the time starts at that 10:00
. Then we have:
$$
beginaligned
f(t) &=tleft( 1-frac 3120(t+1)right) ,\
g(t) &=tleft( 1-frac 5120(t+1)right) .
endaligned
$$
This is so because we expect interpolation polynomials of degree two (as in physics a uniformly accelerated movement), and the values in $0,1,2$ shoud (only) fit. In our case we have $f(0)=0$, $f(1)=1-6/120=1-3/60$, and $f(2)=2(1-9/120)=2-9/60$. Similarly for $g$. Then we solve the equation $f(t)-g(t)=12$. (The clock period is $12$ hours. We will soon see why this multiple of $12$ gets first hit.) This equation has the solution:
sage: var('t');
sage: f(t) = -3/120*t^2 + (1-3/120)*t
sage: g(t) = -5/120*t^2 + (1-5/120)*t
sage: (f(t)-g(t)).factor()
1/60*(t + 1)*t
sage: solve( f(t)-g(t) == 12, t )
[t == -1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2, t == 1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2]
sage: ( 1/2*sqrt(2881) - 1/2 ).n()
26.3374738006393
So the exact solution is $frac 12(sqrt2881-1)$. We solve the same equation as $displaystyleunderbrace2+4+dots+2n_=n(n+1)=720$ in the OP. (Stated in terms of the $n$, which also counts the hours.)
Here is the statistic of true hours, the times of the two clocks, and the difference.
sage: for t in [0..28]:
....: print ( "t=%2s wall=%5.2f table=%5.2f :: diff = %8.5f min"
....: % ( t, f(t), g(t), 60*(f(t)-g(t)) ) )
....:
t= 0 wall= 0.00 table= 0.00 :: diff = 0.00000 min
t= 1 wall= 0.95 table= 0.92 :: diff = 2.00000 min
t= 2 wall= 1.85 table= 1.75 :: diff = 6.00000 min
t= 3 wall= 2.70 table= 2.50 :: diff = 12.00000 min
t= 4 wall= 3.50 table= 3.17 :: diff = 20.00000 min
t= 5 wall= 4.25 table= 3.75 :: diff = 30.00000 min
t= 6 wall= 4.95 table= 4.25 :: diff = 42.00000 min
t= 7 wall= 5.60 table= 4.67 :: diff = 56.00000 min
t= 8 wall= 6.20 table= 5.00 :: diff = 72.00000 min
t= 9 wall= 6.75 table= 5.25 :: diff = 90.00000 min
t=10 wall= 7.25 table= 5.42 :: diff = 110.00000 min
t=11 wall= 7.70 table= 5.50 :: diff = 132.00000 min
t=12 wall= 8.10 table= 5.50 :: diff = 156.00000 min
t=13 wall= 8.45 table= 5.42 :: diff = 182.00000 min
t=14 wall= 8.75 table= 5.25 :: diff = 210.00000 min
t=15 wall= 9.00 table= 5.00 :: diff = 240.00000 min
t=16 wall= 9.20 table= 4.67 :: diff = 272.00000 min
t=17 wall= 9.35 table= 4.25 :: diff = 306.00000 min
t=18 wall= 9.45 table= 3.75 :: diff = 342.00000 min
t=19 wall= 9.50 table= 3.17 :: diff = 380.00000 min
t=20 wall= 9.50 table= 2.50 :: diff = 420.00000 min
t=21 wall= 9.45 table= 1.75 :: diff = 462.00000 min
t=22 wall= 9.35 table= 0.92 :: diff = 506.00000 min
t=23 wall= 9.20 table= 0.00 :: diff = 552.00000 min
t=24 wall= 9.00 table=-1.00 :: diff = 600.00000 min
t=25 wall= 8.75 table=-2.08 :: diff = 650.00000 min
t=26 wall= 8.45 table=-3.25 :: diff = 702.00000 min
t=27 wall= 8.10 table=-4.50 :: diff = 756.00000 min
t=28 wall= 7.70 table=-5.83 :: diff = 812.00000 min
This is showing also how "realistic" the table clock makes time a better time. I really need this clock!
There is a point between $t=26$ and $t=27$ where we hit the $12$ hours, i.e. $720$ minutes. The solution is indeed located in this interval.
answered Aug 10 at 20:13
dan_fulea
4,3371211
4,3371211
Note: Sage was used above, www.sagemath.org
â dan_fulea
Aug 10 at 20:15
add a comment |Â
Note: Sage was used above, www.sagemath.org
â dan_fulea
Aug 10 at 20:15
Note: Sage was used above, www.sagemath.org
â dan_fulea
Aug 10 at 20:15
Note: Sage was used above, www.sagemath.org
â dan_fulea
Aug 10 at 20:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
With this, I got the root as 23.337 hours, so I arrived at the answer as 10PM+23.337 hours i.e 12:20AM.
23.33333.. is 2/3 of an hour less than a day, or 40 min less than a day. So 10PM+23.3333... is 10PM+1day-40 min, or 9:20PM.
There are several different interpretations of this problem. For one thing, "lose a minute" is ambiguous. It could mean "be 1 minute behind" or "be 1 more minute behind". Under the first interpretation, the difference increases by 2 minutes each hour, so it will take 30 hours to differ by an hour, and 360 hours, or 15 days, to differ by 12 hours. There is now a further ambiguity as to what type of clocks they are; if they are 24-hour clocks, then it will take 720 hours, or 30 days, to show the same time.
If "lose a minute" means "be 1 more minute behind", then we need to make further assumptions. We can fit a quadratic equation to the data points given: after one hour, the wall clock shows 57 minutes. After 2 hours, it shows 111 minutes, etc. That gives the points (1,57), (2,11), (3,168). If x is the actual time in hours, and y is the shown time in minutes, then $y = 60x-frac3x(x+1)2$ fits these data points, but if the problem expects us to therefore conclude that this is the right equation, it is asking us to make something of a leap. Similarly, the equation $y = 60x-frac5x(x+1)2$ fits the table clock. The difference is then $frac2x(x+1)2$, or just $x(x+1)$. Solving for $x(x+1) = 720$, we get:
$x(x+1) = 720$
$x^2+x-720=0$
This gives the solutions 26.3375 and âÂÂ27.3375. The negative solution corresponds to some past time when they showed he same time, so we should take the positive one. This corresponds to 24+2.3375 hours, or 1 day, 2 hours, and .3375 hours. .3375 hours is 20.25 minutes. .25 minutes is 15 seconds. So this corresponds to 1 day, 2 hours, 20 minutes, and 15 seconds. Adding this to the initial time of 10PM gets to 12:20:15 AM on the second day (the day after the day after the clocks are set).
This matches the time you got, so perhaps your number 23.337 was a typo.
Yes, I got the root as $26.337$ but wrote it as $23.337$. Thank you for pointing it out.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 20:23
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
With this, I got the root as 23.337 hours, so I arrived at the answer as 10PM+23.337 hours i.e 12:20AM.
23.33333.. is 2/3 of an hour less than a day, or 40 min less than a day. So 10PM+23.3333... is 10PM+1day-40 min, or 9:20PM.
There are several different interpretations of this problem. For one thing, "lose a minute" is ambiguous. It could mean "be 1 minute behind" or "be 1 more minute behind". Under the first interpretation, the difference increases by 2 minutes each hour, so it will take 30 hours to differ by an hour, and 360 hours, or 15 days, to differ by 12 hours. There is now a further ambiguity as to what type of clocks they are; if they are 24-hour clocks, then it will take 720 hours, or 30 days, to show the same time.
If "lose a minute" means "be 1 more minute behind", then we need to make further assumptions. We can fit a quadratic equation to the data points given: after one hour, the wall clock shows 57 minutes. After 2 hours, it shows 111 minutes, etc. That gives the points (1,57), (2,11), (3,168). If x is the actual time in hours, and y is the shown time in minutes, then $y = 60x-frac3x(x+1)2$ fits these data points, but if the problem expects us to therefore conclude that this is the right equation, it is asking us to make something of a leap. Similarly, the equation $y = 60x-frac5x(x+1)2$ fits the table clock. The difference is then $frac2x(x+1)2$, or just $x(x+1)$. Solving for $x(x+1) = 720$, we get:
$x(x+1) = 720$
$x^2+x-720=0$
This gives the solutions 26.3375 and âÂÂ27.3375. The negative solution corresponds to some past time when they showed he same time, so we should take the positive one. This corresponds to 24+2.3375 hours, or 1 day, 2 hours, and .3375 hours. .3375 hours is 20.25 minutes. .25 minutes is 15 seconds. So this corresponds to 1 day, 2 hours, 20 minutes, and 15 seconds. Adding this to the initial time of 10PM gets to 12:20:15 AM on the second day (the day after the day after the clocks are set).
This matches the time you got, so perhaps your number 23.337 was a typo.
Yes, I got the root as $26.337$ but wrote it as $23.337$. Thank you for pointing it out.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 20:23
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
With this, I got the root as 23.337 hours, so I arrived at the answer as 10PM+23.337 hours i.e 12:20AM.
23.33333.. is 2/3 of an hour less than a day, or 40 min less than a day. So 10PM+23.3333... is 10PM+1day-40 min, or 9:20PM.
There are several different interpretations of this problem. For one thing, "lose a minute" is ambiguous. It could mean "be 1 minute behind" or "be 1 more minute behind". Under the first interpretation, the difference increases by 2 minutes each hour, so it will take 30 hours to differ by an hour, and 360 hours, or 15 days, to differ by 12 hours. There is now a further ambiguity as to what type of clocks they are; if they are 24-hour clocks, then it will take 720 hours, or 30 days, to show the same time.
If "lose a minute" means "be 1 more minute behind", then we need to make further assumptions. We can fit a quadratic equation to the data points given: after one hour, the wall clock shows 57 minutes. After 2 hours, it shows 111 minutes, etc. That gives the points (1,57), (2,11), (3,168). If x is the actual time in hours, and y is the shown time in minutes, then $y = 60x-frac3x(x+1)2$ fits these data points, but if the problem expects us to therefore conclude that this is the right equation, it is asking us to make something of a leap. Similarly, the equation $y = 60x-frac5x(x+1)2$ fits the table clock. The difference is then $frac2x(x+1)2$, or just $x(x+1)$. Solving for $x(x+1) = 720$, we get:
$x(x+1) = 720$
$x^2+x-720=0$
This gives the solutions 26.3375 and âÂÂ27.3375. The negative solution corresponds to some past time when they showed he same time, so we should take the positive one. This corresponds to 24+2.3375 hours, or 1 day, 2 hours, and .3375 hours. .3375 hours is 20.25 minutes. .25 minutes is 15 seconds. So this corresponds to 1 day, 2 hours, 20 minutes, and 15 seconds. Adding this to the initial time of 10PM gets to 12:20:15 AM on the second day (the day after the day after the clocks are set).
This matches the time you got, so perhaps your number 23.337 was a typo.
With this, I got the root as 23.337 hours, so I arrived at the answer as 10PM+23.337 hours i.e 12:20AM.
23.33333.. is 2/3 of an hour less than a day, or 40 min less than a day. So 10PM+23.3333... is 10PM+1day-40 min, or 9:20PM.
There are several different interpretations of this problem. For one thing, "lose a minute" is ambiguous. It could mean "be 1 minute behind" or "be 1 more minute behind". Under the first interpretation, the difference increases by 2 minutes each hour, so it will take 30 hours to differ by an hour, and 360 hours, or 15 days, to differ by 12 hours. There is now a further ambiguity as to what type of clocks they are; if they are 24-hour clocks, then it will take 720 hours, or 30 days, to show the same time.
If "lose a minute" means "be 1 more minute behind", then we need to make further assumptions. We can fit a quadratic equation to the data points given: after one hour, the wall clock shows 57 minutes. After 2 hours, it shows 111 minutes, etc. That gives the points (1,57), (2,11), (3,168). If x is the actual time in hours, and y is the shown time in minutes, then $y = 60x-frac3x(x+1)2$ fits these data points, but if the problem expects us to therefore conclude that this is the right equation, it is asking us to make something of a leap. Similarly, the equation $y = 60x-frac5x(x+1)2$ fits the table clock. The difference is then $frac2x(x+1)2$, or just $x(x+1)$. Solving for $x(x+1) = 720$, we get:
$x(x+1) = 720$
$x^2+x-720=0$
This gives the solutions 26.3375 and âÂÂ27.3375. The negative solution corresponds to some past time when they showed he same time, so we should take the positive one. This corresponds to 24+2.3375 hours, or 1 day, 2 hours, and .3375 hours. .3375 hours is 20.25 minutes. .25 minutes is 15 seconds. So this corresponds to 1 day, 2 hours, 20 minutes, and 15 seconds. Adding this to the initial time of 10PM gets to 12:20:15 AM on the second day (the day after the day after the clocks are set).
This matches the time you got, so perhaps your number 23.337 was a typo.
answered Aug 10 at 20:02
Acccumulation
4,5662314
4,5662314
Yes, I got the root as $26.337$ but wrote it as $23.337$. Thank you for pointing it out.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 20:23
add a comment |Â
Yes, I got the root as $26.337$ but wrote it as $23.337$. Thank you for pointing it out.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 20:23
Yes, I got the root as $26.337$ but wrote it as $23.337$. Thank you for pointing it out.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 20:23
Yes, I got the root as $26.337$ but wrote it as $23.337$. Thank you for pointing it out.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 20:23
add a comment |Â
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1
It's not mentioned in the problem, but I think they mean a 12 hour clock as they've mentioned PM. EDIT: I am not sure why it isn't a valid time in a 12 hour clock?
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:04
1
simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock According to this, 12:20 AM seems like a valid time in a 12-hour clock.
â Gokul
Aug 10 at 19:14
1
@WeatherVane: Can you explain why
12:20 AM
is not valid? At nighttime, I always see this number, though I always wish it was much earlier...â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:15
1
@dan_fulea: I think he means that if we have a third, accurate clock, when it shows $11:00PM$, the first clock will read $10:57PM$ and the second clock will read $10:55PM$. When the third, accurate clock reads $12:00$AM, the first clock will read $11:51PM$ while the second clock reads $11:45PM$.
â Clayton
Aug 10 at 19:17
2
Commonly known as military time, @WeatherVane. However, the question is clearly using 12 hour clock time: It says both clocks were set to the correct time at 10:00 pm, not at 22:00.
â amWhy
Aug 10 at 19:57