How can this implication be true? “$1>2 $ implies $ $ 'vegetables are healthy'.” [duplicate]

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  • In classical logic, why is $(pRightarrow q)$ True if both $p$ and $q$ are False?

    20 answers



  • In classical logic, why is $(pRightarrow q)$ True if $p$ is False and $q$ is True?

    14 answers



In mathematical logic, implication has the following truth table



enter image description here



where $phi$ and $ psi$ are statements, and $1$ represents true and $0$ false.



From this table, an implication such as



"$1>2 $ implies $ $ vegetables are usually healthy"



is true. (Unless, I'm mistaken.)



But surely, this implication is nonsense, so how can we even begin to talk about its veracity? Doesn't mathematical logic bother with the "meaning" behind an implication? What is the rationale behind the above truth table?



Thanks







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marked as duplicate by JMoravitz, Taroccoesbrocco, Community♦ Aug 10 at 23:14


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.














  • You might be interested in non-classical logic.
    – Shaun
    Aug 10 at 22:32










  • @Shaun I'll check it out - thanks.
    – Stephen
    Aug 10 at 22:39






  • 2




    The result that a false premise implies anything is sometimes referred to as the Principle of explosion.
    – JMoravitz
    Aug 10 at 22:39










  • @JMoravitz I see, but what bothers me is the fact that a false statement can imply something. Is this just a convention? Shouldn't false statements imply nothing at all? as opposed to anything we want?
    – Stephen
    Aug 10 at 22:48










  • Implication in the mathematical sense is not quite the "if-then" of the English language. As a general rule, they coincide fairly well whenever the truth value of the premise is in some way variable or uncertain, and very poorly when it is not.
    – Micah
    Aug 10 at 22:51















up vote
2
down vote

favorite













This question already has an answer here:



  • In classical logic, why is $(pRightarrow q)$ True if both $p$ and $q$ are False?

    20 answers



  • In classical logic, why is $(pRightarrow q)$ True if $p$ is False and $q$ is True?

    14 answers



In mathematical logic, implication has the following truth table



enter image description here



where $phi$ and $ psi$ are statements, and $1$ represents true and $0$ false.



From this table, an implication such as



"$1>2 $ implies $ $ vegetables are usually healthy"



is true. (Unless, I'm mistaken.)



But surely, this implication is nonsense, so how can we even begin to talk about its veracity? Doesn't mathematical logic bother with the "meaning" behind an implication? What is the rationale behind the above truth table?



Thanks







share|cite|improve this question












marked as duplicate by JMoravitz, Taroccoesbrocco, Community♦ Aug 10 at 23:14


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.














  • You might be interested in non-classical logic.
    – Shaun
    Aug 10 at 22:32










  • @Shaun I'll check it out - thanks.
    – Stephen
    Aug 10 at 22:39






  • 2




    The result that a false premise implies anything is sometimes referred to as the Principle of explosion.
    – JMoravitz
    Aug 10 at 22:39










  • @JMoravitz I see, but what bothers me is the fact that a false statement can imply something. Is this just a convention? Shouldn't false statements imply nothing at all? as opposed to anything we want?
    – Stephen
    Aug 10 at 22:48










  • Implication in the mathematical sense is not quite the "if-then" of the English language. As a general rule, they coincide fairly well whenever the truth value of the premise is in some way variable or uncertain, and very poorly when it is not.
    – Micah
    Aug 10 at 22:51













up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite












This question already has an answer here:



  • In classical logic, why is $(pRightarrow q)$ True if both $p$ and $q$ are False?

    20 answers



  • In classical logic, why is $(pRightarrow q)$ True if $p$ is False and $q$ is True?

    14 answers



In mathematical logic, implication has the following truth table



enter image description here



where $phi$ and $ psi$ are statements, and $1$ represents true and $0$ false.



From this table, an implication such as



"$1>2 $ implies $ $ vegetables are usually healthy"



is true. (Unless, I'm mistaken.)



But surely, this implication is nonsense, so how can we even begin to talk about its veracity? Doesn't mathematical logic bother with the "meaning" behind an implication? What is the rationale behind the above truth table?



Thanks







share|cite|improve this question













This question already has an answer here:



  • In classical logic, why is $(pRightarrow q)$ True if both $p$ and $q$ are False?

    20 answers



  • In classical logic, why is $(pRightarrow q)$ True if $p$ is False and $q$ is True?

    14 answers



In mathematical logic, implication has the following truth table



enter image description here



where $phi$ and $ psi$ are statements, and $1$ represents true and $0$ false.



From this table, an implication such as



"$1>2 $ implies $ $ vegetables are usually healthy"



is true. (Unless, I'm mistaken.)



But surely, this implication is nonsense, so how can we even begin to talk about its veracity? Doesn't mathematical logic bother with the "meaning" behind an implication? What is the rationale behind the above truth table?



Thanks





This question already has an answer here:



  • In classical logic, why is $(pRightarrow q)$ True if both $p$ and $q$ are False?

    20 answers



  • In classical logic, why is $(pRightarrow q)$ True if $p$ is False and $q$ is True?

    14 answers









share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Aug 10 at 22:24









Stephen

1,2301819




1,2301819




marked as duplicate by JMoravitz, Taroccoesbrocco, Community♦ Aug 10 at 23:14


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.






marked as duplicate by JMoravitz, Taroccoesbrocco, Community♦ Aug 10 at 23:14


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.













  • You might be interested in non-classical logic.
    – Shaun
    Aug 10 at 22:32










  • @Shaun I'll check it out - thanks.
    – Stephen
    Aug 10 at 22:39






  • 2




    The result that a false premise implies anything is sometimes referred to as the Principle of explosion.
    – JMoravitz
    Aug 10 at 22:39










  • @JMoravitz I see, but what bothers me is the fact that a false statement can imply something. Is this just a convention? Shouldn't false statements imply nothing at all? as opposed to anything we want?
    – Stephen
    Aug 10 at 22:48










  • Implication in the mathematical sense is not quite the "if-then" of the English language. As a general rule, they coincide fairly well whenever the truth value of the premise is in some way variable or uncertain, and very poorly when it is not.
    – Micah
    Aug 10 at 22:51

















  • You might be interested in non-classical logic.
    – Shaun
    Aug 10 at 22:32










  • @Shaun I'll check it out - thanks.
    – Stephen
    Aug 10 at 22:39






  • 2




    The result that a false premise implies anything is sometimes referred to as the Principle of explosion.
    – JMoravitz
    Aug 10 at 22:39










  • @JMoravitz I see, but what bothers me is the fact that a false statement can imply something. Is this just a convention? Shouldn't false statements imply nothing at all? as opposed to anything we want?
    – Stephen
    Aug 10 at 22:48










  • Implication in the mathematical sense is not quite the "if-then" of the English language. As a general rule, they coincide fairly well whenever the truth value of the premise is in some way variable or uncertain, and very poorly when it is not.
    – Micah
    Aug 10 at 22:51
















You might be interested in non-classical logic.
– Shaun
Aug 10 at 22:32




You might be interested in non-classical logic.
– Shaun
Aug 10 at 22:32












@Shaun I'll check it out - thanks.
– Stephen
Aug 10 at 22:39




@Shaun I'll check it out - thanks.
– Stephen
Aug 10 at 22:39




2




2




The result that a false premise implies anything is sometimes referred to as the Principle of explosion.
– JMoravitz
Aug 10 at 22:39




The result that a false premise implies anything is sometimes referred to as the Principle of explosion.
– JMoravitz
Aug 10 at 22:39












@JMoravitz I see, but what bothers me is the fact that a false statement can imply something. Is this just a convention? Shouldn't false statements imply nothing at all? as opposed to anything we want?
– Stephen
Aug 10 at 22:48




@JMoravitz I see, but what bothers me is the fact that a false statement can imply something. Is this just a convention? Shouldn't false statements imply nothing at all? as opposed to anything we want?
– Stephen
Aug 10 at 22:48












Implication in the mathematical sense is not quite the "if-then" of the English language. As a general rule, they coincide fairly well whenever the truth value of the premise is in some way variable or uncertain, and very poorly when it is not.
– Micah
Aug 10 at 22:51





Implication in the mathematical sense is not quite the "if-then" of the English language. As a general rule, they coincide fairly well whenever the truth value of the premise is in some way variable or uncertain, and very poorly when it is not.
– Micah
Aug 10 at 22:51











3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
4
down vote



accepted










You write (in response to a comment):




so I should be interpreting the mathematical "implication" as the definition resulting from the above truth table without trying to link it to the everyday meaning of the word implication?




I wouldn't quite go that far, but I would say that you shouldn't try too hard to make it match the natural-language behavior of implication. Rather, you should ultimately convince yourself that the truth table above is the best way to approximate natural-language implication as it is used in mathematics with a classical (= true or false) truth functional (that is, the truth value of an implication should depend only on the truth values of the hypothesis and conclusion).




To help motivate my claim above, let me give a concrete example of a situation where we definitely want a false statement to imply something:




If $104723$ divides $918273643635times 85943204812$, then either $104723$ divides $918273643635$ or $104723$ divides $85943204812$ (or both).




The crucial fact here is that $104723$ is prime, and this means that for any $a, b$, if $104723$ divides $acdot b$ then it divides either $a$ or $b$ (or both). So we can say confidently that the statement above is true, without digging into those bigger numbers' details.



But in fact we can check - with work (or a computer) - that $104723$ does not divide $918273643635cdot 85943204812$. So the hypothesis of the statement is false. At this point we're forced to conclude one of two things:



  • We were wrong above when we claimed that this implication held; and in particular, we can't use theorems like "If a prime divides the product of two numbers, it divides one of the numbers (or both)" in the natural way.


  • Or, having a false hypothesis doesn't make an implication false.


The latter is adopted for classical logic, simply because it better matches actual mathematical reasoning. You can argue that the former is better suited to natural language, and we have various nonclassical logics which try to address that, but it's important to recognize the value of being able to mathematically prove that an implication is true without showing that the hypothesis is true.




EDIT: Let me end by saying a couple words about a few other ways to approach implication.



  • First off, we could cook up a logic where $pimplies q$ is false whenever $p$ is false. As far as I know, this isn't done anywhere, but there's no real barrier - I just don't know that anyone's found it interesting enough to pursue (I think because "$pimplies p$" is something we pretty much all agree should be true, regardless of $p$).


  • However, we could try to draw a distinction between certain "vacuous" (= false-hypothesis) implications: some (like my example above, or "$1<2implies 3<4$") have a kind of logic to them, while others (like that of your title) are just ... "silly." We could demand that a vacuous implication be true only if the hypothesis is somehow "relevant" to the conclusion. In fact, once we go down this road there's no need to pay attention only to vacuous implications: something like "If $2+2=4$, then Fermat's last theorem is true" is also fishy! This leads to relevance logic (and related concepts).


  • Another tack we could take is to think about contingency. For example, consider the sentence "If it were raining right now, the ground outside would be wet." This is something we probably agree is true, but - at least where I am, currently - the hypothesis is false. We can resolve the situation while remaining skeptical of vacuous implications by noticing that "it is raining right now" is false but not absurd. One way of expressing this is to say that there is a possible world where it is true; there are other approaches, but I like this one at least at first. Considerations like these will ultimately lead to modal logic.


And there are others, but hopefully the above helps at first. Incidentally, if you want to dive straight into the deep end you might check out the magnifigargantuamazing book The connectives. It's $1512$ pages long - that's not a typo - and hardback, so probably not a good idea to read without close-toed shoes (you may find this review entertaining).






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Another example would be equivalence of two false statements, e.g. $1<2 iff 2<3$. We can get each statement by either adding or subtracting $1$ from the other statement on both sides, which should be an operation that doesn't change the validity.
    – Sellerie
    Aug 10 at 23:03











  • @Sellerie True, but I'm not sure that would be as convincing to the OP; I wanted to pick an implication that is obviously true and apparently meaningful. But you're quite right.
    – Noah Schweber
    Aug 10 at 23:03






  • 1




    Very helpful, thanks. The examples you gave make total sense, and indeed illustrates quite well why we have such a definition, and also how to think about them.
    – Stephen
    Aug 10 at 23:22

















up vote
3
down vote













You can think of it more like "whenever $phi$ is true, $psi$ must also be true". Then it becomes clear that any false statement implies every other statement, no matter if true or false, since the "whenever" part never actually applies.






share|cite|improve this answer



























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    That is because any false assertion implies whatever you want, since you cannot find a counter-example, i.e. an example with the assertion true and the conclusion false.






    share|cite|improve this answer




















    • If $phi$ is false, then indeed we can't find a case in which it's veracity implies a false statement, agreed. But, this is not satisfying. Instead of saying a false statement implies anything, isn't it more factual to say that a false statement does not imply anything at all?
      – Stephen
      Aug 10 at 22:38






    • 1




      @Stephen No, it isn't. Classical logic actually models rather decently standard mathematical reasoning. You want it to model natural language, and find it wanting. In a sense, that is not entirely surprising, since really this was not the goal. Luckily, we now have a large array of nonclassical logics that serve as alternatives.
      – Andrés E. Caicedo
      Aug 10 at 22:49






    • 1




      @Stephen I think it's natural at the very least to assert that a false statement implies itself ...
      – Noah Schweber
      Aug 10 at 23:05

















    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    4
    down vote



    accepted










    You write (in response to a comment):




    so I should be interpreting the mathematical "implication" as the definition resulting from the above truth table without trying to link it to the everyday meaning of the word implication?




    I wouldn't quite go that far, but I would say that you shouldn't try too hard to make it match the natural-language behavior of implication. Rather, you should ultimately convince yourself that the truth table above is the best way to approximate natural-language implication as it is used in mathematics with a classical (= true or false) truth functional (that is, the truth value of an implication should depend only on the truth values of the hypothesis and conclusion).




    To help motivate my claim above, let me give a concrete example of a situation where we definitely want a false statement to imply something:




    If $104723$ divides $918273643635times 85943204812$, then either $104723$ divides $918273643635$ or $104723$ divides $85943204812$ (or both).




    The crucial fact here is that $104723$ is prime, and this means that for any $a, b$, if $104723$ divides $acdot b$ then it divides either $a$ or $b$ (or both). So we can say confidently that the statement above is true, without digging into those bigger numbers' details.



    But in fact we can check - with work (or a computer) - that $104723$ does not divide $918273643635cdot 85943204812$. So the hypothesis of the statement is false. At this point we're forced to conclude one of two things:



    • We were wrong above when we claimed that this implication held; and in particular, we can't use theorems like "If a prime divides the product of two numbers, it divides one of the numbers (or both)" in the natural way.


    • Or, having a false hypothesis doesn't make an implication false.


    The latter is adopted for classical logic, simply because it better matches actual mathematical reasoning. You can argue that the former is better suited to natural language, and we have various nonclassical logics which try to address that, but it's important to recognize the value of being able to mathematically prove that an implication is true without showing that the hypothesis is true.




    EDIT: Let me end by saying a couple words about a few other ways to approach implication.



    • First off, we could cook up a logic where $pimplies q$ is false whenever $p$ is false. As far as I know, this isn't done anywhere, but there's no real barrier - I just don't know that anyone's found it interesting enough to pursue (I think because "$pimplies p$" is something we pretty much all agree should be true, regardless of $p$).


    • However, we could try to draw a distinction between certain "vacuous" (= false-hypothesis) implications: some (like my example above, or "$1<2implies 3<4$") have a kind of logic to them, while others (like that of your title) are just ... "silly." We could demand that a vacuous implication be true only if the hypothesis is somehow "relevant" to the conclusion. In fact, once we go down this road there's no need to pay attention only to vacuous implications: something like "If $2+2=4$, then Fermat's last theorem is true" is also fishy! This leads to relevance logic (and related concepts).


    • Another tack we could take is to think about contingency. For example, consider the sentence "If it were raining right now, the ground outside would be wet." This is something we probably agree is true, but - at least where I am, currently - the hypothesis is false. We can resolve the situation while remaining skeptical of vacuous implications by noticing that "it is raining right now" is false but not absurd. One way of expressing this is to say that there is a possible world where it is true; there are other approaches, but I like this one at least at first. Considerations like these will ultimately lead to modal logic.


    And there are others, but hopefully the above helps at first. Incidentally, if you want to dive straight into the deep end you might check out the magnifigargantuamazing book The connectives. It's $1512$ pages long - that's not a typo - and hardback, so probably not a good idea to read without close-toed shoes (you may find this review entertaining).






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • Another example would be equivalence of two false statements, e.g. $1<2 iff 2<3$. We can get each statement by either adding or subtracting $1$ from the other statement on both sides, which should be an operation that doesn't change the validity.
      – Sellerie
      Aug 10 at 23:03











    • @Sellerie True, but I'm not sure that would be as convincing to the OP; I wanted to pick an implication that is obviously true and apparently meaningful. But you're quite right.
      – Noah Schweber
      Aug 10 at 23:03






    • 1




      Very helpful, thanks. The examples you gave make total sense, and indeed illustrates quite well why we have such a definition, and also how to think about them.
      – Stephen
      Aug 10 at 23:22














    up vote
    4
    down vote



    accepted










    You write (in response to a comment):




    so I should be interpreting the mathematical "implication" as the definition resulting from the above truth table without trying to link it to the everyday meaning of the word implication?




    I wouldn't quite go that far, but I would say that you shouldn't try too hard to make it match the natural-language behavior of implication. Rather, you should ultimately convince yourself that the truth table above is the best way to approximate natural-language implication as it is used in mathematics with a classical (= true or false) truth functional (that is, the truth value of an implication should depend only on the truth values of the hypothesis and conclusion).




    To help motivate my claim above, let me give a concrete example of a situation where we definitely want a false statement to imply something:




    If $104723$ divides $918273643635times 85943204812$, then either $104723$ divides $918273643635$ or $104723$ divides $85943204812$ (or both).




    The crucial fact here is that $104723$ is prime, and this means that for any $a, b$, if $104723$ divides $acdot b$ then it divides either $a$ or $b$ (or both). So we can say confidently that the statement above is true, without digging into those bigger numbers' details.



    But in fact we can check - with work (or a computer) - that $104723$ does not divide $918273643635cdot 85943204812$. So the hypothesis of the statement is false. At this point we're forced to conclude one of two things:



    • We were wrong above when we claimed that this implication held; and in particular, we can't use theorems like "If a prime divides the product of two numbers, it divides one of the numbers (or both)" in the natural way.


    • Or, having a false hypothesis doesn't make an implication false.


    The latter is adopted for classical logic, simply because it better matches actual mathematical reasoning. You can argue that the former is better suited to natural language, and we have various nonclassical logics which try to address that, but it's important to recognize the value of being able to mathematically prove that an implication is true without showing that the hypothesis is true.




    EDIT: Let me end by saying a couple words about a few other ways to approach implication.



    • First off, we could cook up a logic where $pimplies q$ is false whenever $p$ is false. As far as I know, this isn't done anywhere, but there's no real barrier - I just don't know that anyone's found it interesting enough to pursue (I think because "$pimplies p$" is something we pretty much all agree should be true, regardless of $p$).


    • However, we could try to draw a distinction between certain "vacuous" (= false-hypothesis) implications: some (like my example above, or "$1<2implies 3<4$") have a kind of logic to them, while others (like that of your title) are just ... "silly." We could demand that a vacuous implication be true only if the hypothesis is somehow "relevant" to the conclusion. In fact, once we go down this road there's no need to pay attention only to vacuous implications: something like "If $2+2=4$, then Fermat's last theorem is true" is also fishy! This leads to relevance logic (and related concepts).


    • Another tack we could take is to think about contingency. For example, consider the sentence "If it were raining right now, the ground outside would be wet." This is something we probably agree is true, but - at least where I am, currently - the hypothesis is false. We can resolve the situation while remaining skeptical of vacuous implications by noticing that "it is raining right now" is false but not absurd. One way of expressing this is to say that there is a possible world where it is true; there are other approaches, but I like this one at least at first. Considerations like these will ultimately lead to modal logic.


    And there are others, but hopefully the above helps at first. Incidentally, if you want to dive straight into the deep end you might check out the magnifigargantuamazing book The connectives. It's $1512$ pages long - that's not a typo - and hardback, so probably not a good idea to read without close-toed shoes (you may find this review entertaining).






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • Another example would be equivalence of two false statements, e.g. $1<2 iff 2<3$. We can get each statement by either adding or subtracting $1$ from the other statement on both sides, which should be an operation that doesn't change the validity.
      – Sellerie
      Aug 10 at 23:03











    • @Sellerie True, but I'm not sure that would be as convincing to the OP; I wanted to pick an implication that is obviously true and apparently meaningful. But you're quite right.
      – Noah Schweber
      Aug 10 at 23:03






    • 1




      Very helpful, thanks. The examples you gave make total sense, and indeed illustrates quite well why we have such a definition, and also how to think about them.
      – Stephen
      Aug 10 at 23:22












    up vote
    4
    down vote



    accepted







    up vote
    4
    down vote



    accepted






    You write (in response to a comment):




    so I should be interpreting the mathematical "implication" as the definition resulting from the above truth table without trying to link it to the everyday meaning of the word implication?




    I wouldn't quite go that far, but I would say that you shouldn't try too hard to make it match the natural-language behavior of implication. Rather, you should ultimately convince yourself that the truth table above is the best way to approximate natural-language implication as it is used in mathematics with a classical (= true or false) truth functional (that is, the truth value of an implication should depend only on the truth values of the hypothesis and conclusion).




    To help motivate my claim above, let me give a concrete example of a situation where we definitely want a false statement to imply something:




    If $104723$ divides $918273643635times 85943204812$, then either $104723$ divides $918273643635$ or $104723$ divides $85943204812$ (or both).




    The crucial fact here is that $104723$ is prime, and this means that for any $a, b$, if $104723$ divides $acdot b$ then it divides either $a$ or $b$ (or both). So we can say confidently that the statement above is true, without digging into those bigger numbers' details.



    But in fact we can check - with work (or a computer) - that $104723$ does not divide $918273643635cdot 85943204812$. So the hypothesis of the statement is false. At this point we're forced to conclude one of two things:



    • We were wrong above when we claimed that this implication held; and in particular, we can't use theorems like "If a prime divides the product of two numbers, it divides one of the numbers (or both)" in the natural way.


    • Or, having a false hypothesis doesn't make an implication false.


    The latter is adopted for classical logic, simply because it better matches actual mathematical reasoning. You can argue that the former is better suited to natural language, and we have various nonclassical logics which try to address that, but it's important to recognize the value of being able to mathematically prove that an implication is true without showing that the hypothesis is true.




    EDIT: Let me end by saying a couple words about a few other ways to approach implication.



    • First off, we could cook up a logic where $pimplies q$ is false whenever $p$ is false. As far as I know, this isn't done anywhere, but there's no real barrier - I just don't know that anyone's found it interesting enough to pursue (I think because "$pimplies p$" is something we pretty much all agree should be true, regardless of $p$).


    • However, we could try to draw a distinction between certain "vacuous" (= false-hypothesis) implications: some (like my example above, or "$1<2implies 3<4$") have a kind of logic to them, while others (like that of your title) are just ... "silly." We could demand that a vacuous implication be true only if the hypothesis is somehow "relevant" to the conclusion. In fact, once we go down this road there's no need to pay attention only to vacuous implications: something like "If $2+2=4$, then Fermat's last theorem is true" is also fishy! This leads to relevance logic (and related concepts).


    • Another tack we could take is to think about contingency. For example, consider the sentence "If it were raining right now, the ground outside would be wet." This is something we probably agree is true, but - at least where I am, currently - the hypothesis is false. We can resolve the situation while remaining skeptical of vacuous implications by noticing that "it is raining right now" is false but not absurd. One way of expressing this is to say that there is a possible world where it is true; there are other approaches, but I like this one at least at first. Considerations like these will ultimately lead to modal logic.


    And there are others, but hopefully the above helps at first. Incidentally, if you want to dive straight into the deep end you might check out the magnifigargantuamazing book The connectives. It's $1512$ pages long - that's not a typo - and hardback, so probably not a good idea to read without close-toed shoes (you may find this review entertaining).






    share|cite|improve this answer














    You write (in response to a comment):




    so I should be interpreting the mathematical "implication" as the definition resulting from the above truth table without trying to link it to the everyday meaning of the word implication?




    I wouldn't quite go that far, but I would say that you shouldn't try too hard to make it match the natural-language behavior of implication. Rather, you should ultimately convince yourself that the truth table above is the best way to approximate natural-language implication as it is used in mathematics with a classical (= true or false) truth functional (that is, the truth value of an implication should depend only on the truth values of the hypothesis and conclusion).




    To help motivate my claim above, let me give a concrete example of a situation where we definitely want a false statement to imply something:




    If $104723$ divides $918273643635times 85943204812$, then either $104723$ divides $918273643635$ or $104723$ divides $85943204812$ (or both).




    The crucial fact here is that $104723$ is prime, and this means that for any $a, b$, if $104723$ divides $acdot b$ then it divides either $a$ or $b$ (or both). So we can say confidently that the statement above is true, without digging into those bigger numbers' details.



    But in fact we can check - with work (or a computer) - that $104723$ does not divide $918273643635cdot 85943204812$. So the hypothesis of the statement is false. At this point we're forced to conclude one of two things:



    • We were wrong above when we claimed that this implication held; and in particular, we can't use theorems like "If a prime divides the product of two numbers, it divides one of the numbers (or both)" in the natural way.


    • Or, having a false hypothesis doesn't make an implication false.


    The latter is adopted for classical logic, simply because it better matches actual mathematical reasoning. You can argue that the former is better suited to natural language, and we have various nonclassical logics which try to address that, but it's important to recognize the value of being able to mathematically prove that an implication is true without showing that the hypothesis is true.




    EDIT: Let me end by saying a couple words about a few other ways to approach implication.



    • First off, we could cook up a logic where $pimplies q$ is false whenever $p$ is false. As far as I know, this isn't done anywhere, but there's no real barrier - I just don't know that anyone's found it interesting enough to pursue (I think because "$pimplies p$" is something we pretty much all agree should be true, regardless of $p$).


    • However, we could try to draw a distinction between certain "vacuous" (= false-hypothesis) implications: some (like my example above, or "$1<2implies 3<4$") have a kind of logic to them, while others (like that of your title) are just ... "silly." We could demand that a vacuous implication be true only if the hypothesis is somehow "relevant" to the conclusion. In fact, once we go down this road there's no need to pay attention only to vacuous implications: something like "If $2+2=4$, then Fermat's last theorem is true" is also fishy! This leads to relevance logic (and related concepts).


    • Another tack we could take is to think about contingency. For example, consider the sentence "If it were raining right now, the ground outside would be wet." This is something we probably agree is true, but - at least where I am, currently - the hypothesis is false. We can resolve the situation while remaining skeptical of vacuous implications by noticing that "it is raining right now" is false but not absurd. One way of expressing this is to say that there is a possible world where it is true; there are other approaches, but I like this one at least at first. Considerations like these will ultimately lead to modal logic.


    And there are others, but hopefully the above helps at first. Incidentally, if you want to dive straight into the deep end you might check out the magnifigargantuamazing book The connectives. It's $1512$ pages long - that's not a typo - and hardback, so probably not a good idea to read without close-toed shoes (you may find this review entertaining).







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    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Aug 10 at 23:20

























    answered Aug 10 at 22:56









    Noah Schweber

    111k9140264




    111k9140264











    • Another example would be equivalence of two false statements, e.g. $1<2 iff 2<3$. We can get each statement by either adding or subtracting $1$ from the other statement on both sides, which should be an operation that doesn't change the validity.
      – Sellerie
      Aug 10 at 23:03











    • @Sellerie True, but I'm not sure that would be as convincing to the OP; I wanted to pick an implication that is obviously true and apparently meaningful. But you're quite right.
      – Noah Schweber
      Aug 10 at 23:03






    • 1




      Very helpful, thanks. The examples you gave make total sense, and indeed illustrates quite well why we have such a definition, and also how to think about them.
      – Stephen
      Aug 10 at 23:22
















    • Another example would be equivalence of two false statements, e.g. $1<2 iff 2<3$. We can get each statement by either adding or subtracting $1$ from the other statement on both sides, which should be an operation that doesn't change the validity.
      – Sellerie
      Aug 10 at 23:03











    • @Sellerie True, but I'm not sure that would be as convincing to the OP; I wanted to pick an implication that is obviously true and apparently meaningful. But you're quite right.
      – Noah Schweber
      Aug 10 at 23:03






    • 1




      Very helpful, thanks. The examples you gave make total sense, and indeed illustrates quite well why we have such a definition, and also how to think about them.
      – Stephen
      Aug 10 at 23:22















    Another example would be equivalence of two false statements, e.g. $1<2 iff 2<3$. We can get each statement by either adding or subtracting $1$ from the other statement on both sides, which should be an operation that doesn't change the validity.
    – Sellerie
    Aug 10 at 23:03





    Another example would be equivalence of two false statements, e.g. $1<2 iff 2<3$. We can get each statement by either adding or subtracting $1$ from the other statement on both sides, which should be an operation that doesn't change the validity.
    – Sellerie
    Aug 10 at 23:03













    @Sellerie True, but I'm not sure that would be as convincing to the OP; I wanted to pick an implication that is obviously true and apparently meaningful. But you're quite right.
    – Noah Schweber
    Aug 10 at 23:03




    @Sellerie True, but I'm not sure that would be as convincing to the OP; I wanted to pick an implication that is obviously true and apparently meaningful. But you're quite right.
    – Noah Schweber
    Aug 10 at 23:03




    1




    1




    Very helpful, thanks. The examples you gave make total sense, and indeed illustrates quite well why we have such a definition, and also how to think about them.
    – Stephen
    Aug 10 at 23:22




    Very helpful, thanks. The examples you gave make total sense, and indeed illustrates quite well why we have such a definition, and also how to think about them.
    – Stephen
    Aug 10 at 23:22










    up vote
    3
    down vote













    You can think of it more like "whenever $phi$ is true, $psi$ must also be true". Then it becomes clear that any false statement implies every other statement, no matter if true or false, since the "whenever" part never actually applies.






    share|cite|improve this answer
























      up vote
      3
      down vote













      You can think of it more like "whenever $phi$ is true, $psi$ must also be true". Then it becomes clear that any false statement implies every other statement, no matter if true or false, since the "whenever" part never actually applies.






      share|cite|improve this answer






















        up vote
        3
        down vote










        up vote
        3
        down vote









        You can think of it more like "whenever $phi$ is true, $psi$ must also be true". Then it becomes clear that any false statement implies every other statement, no matter if true or false, since the "whenever" part never actually applies.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        You can think of it more like "whenever $phi$ is true, $psi$ must also be true". Then it becomes clear that any false statement implies every other statement, no matter if true or false, since the "whenever" part never actually applies.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Aug 10 at 22:34









        Sellerie

        738




        738




















            up vote
            0
            down vote













            That is because any false assertion implies whatever you want, since you cannot find a counter-example, i.e. an example with the assertion true and the conclusion false.






            share|cite|improve this answer




















            • If $phi$ is false, then indeed we can't find a case in which it's veracity implies a false statement, agreed. But, this is not satisfying. Instead of saying a false statement implies anything, isn't it more factual to say that a false statement does not imply anything at all?
              – Stephen
              Aug 10 at 22:38






            • 1




              @Stephen No, it isn't. Classical logic actually models rather decently standard mathematical reasoning. You want it to model natural language, and find it wanting. In a sense, that is not entirely surprising, since really this was not the goal. Luckily, we now have a large array of nonclassical logics that serve as alternatives.
              – Andrés E. Caicedo
              Aug 10 at 22:49






            • 1




              @Stephen I think it's natural at the very least to assert that a false statement implies itself ...
              – Noah Schweber
              Aug 10 at 23:05














            up vote
            0
            down vote













            That is because any false assertion implies whatever you want, since you cannot find a counter-example, i.e. an example with the assertion true and the conclusion false.






            share|cite|improve this answer




















            • If $phi$ is false, then indeed we can't find a case in which it's veracity implies a false statement, agreed. But, this is not satisfying. Instead of saying a false statement implies anything, isn't it more factual to say that a false statement does not imply anything at all?
              – Stephen
              Aug 10 at 22:38






            • 1




              @Stephen No, it isn't. Classical logic actually models rather decently standard mathematical reasoning. You want it to model natural language, and find it wanting. In a sense, that is not entirely surprising, since really this was not the goal. Luckily, we now have a large array of nonclassical logics that serve as alternatives.
              – Andrés E. Caicedo
              Aug 10 at 22:49






            • 1




              @Stephen I think it's natural at the very least to assert that a false statement implies itself ...
              – Noah Schweber
              Aug 10 at 23:05












            up vote
            0
            down vote










            up vote
            0
            down vote









            That is because any false assertion implies whatever you want, since you cannot find a counter-example, i.e. an example with the assertion true and the conclusion false.






            share|cite|improve this answer












            That is because any false assertion implies whatever you want, since you cannot find a counter-example, i.e. an example with the assertion true and the conclusion false.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Aug 10 at 22:27









            Bernard

            111k635103




            111k635103











            • If $phi$ is false, then indeed we can't find a case in which it's veracity implies a false statement, agreed. But, this is not satisfying. Instead of saying a false statement implies anything, isn't it more factual to say that a false statement does not imply anything at all?
              – Stephen
              Aug 10 at 22:38






            • 1




              @Stephen No, it isn't. Classical logic actually models rather decently standard mathematical reasoning. You want it to model natural language, and find it wanting. In a sense, that is not entirely surprising, since really this was not the goal. Luckily, we now have a large array of nonclassical logics that serve as alternatives.
              – Andrés E. Caicedo
              Aug 10 at 22:49






            • 1




              @Stephen I think it's natural at the very least to assert that a false statement implies itself ...
              – Noah Schweber
              Aug 10 at 23:05
















            • If $phi$ is false, then indeed we can't find a case in which it's veracity implies a false statement, agreed. But, this is not satisfying. Instead of saying a false statement implies anything, isn't it more factual to say that a false statement does not imply anything at all?
              – Stephen
              Aug 10 at 22:38






            • 1




              @Stephen No, it isn't. Classical logic actually models rather decently standard mathematical reasoning. You want it to model natural language, and find it wanting. In a sense, that is not entirely surprising, since really this was not the goal. Luckily, we now have a large array of nonclassical logics that serve as alternatives.
              – Andrés E. Caicedo
              Aug 10 at 22:49






            • 1




              @Stephen I think it's natural at the very least to assert that a false statement implies itself ...
              – Noah Schweber
              Aug 10 at 23:05















            If $phi$ is false, then indeed we can't find a case in which it's veracity implies a false statement, agreed. But, this is not satisfying. Instead of saying a false statement implies anything, isn't it more factual to say that a false statement does not imply anything at all?
            – Stephen
            Aug 10 at 22:38




            If $phi$ is false, then indeed we can't find a case in which it's veracity implies a false statement, agreed. But, this is not satisfying. Instead of saying a false statement implies anything, isn't it more factual to say that a false statement does not imply anything at all?
            – Stephen
            Aug 10 at 22:38




            1




            1




            @Stephen No, it isn't. Classical logic actually models rather decently standard mathematical reasoning. You want it to model natural language, and find it wanting. In a sense, that is not entirely surprising, since really this was not the goal. Luckily, we now have a large array of nonclassical logics that serve as alternatives.
            – Andrés E. Caicedo
            Aug 10 at 22:49




            @Stephen No, it isn't. Classical logic actually models rather decently standard mathematical reasoning. You want it to model natural language, and find it wanting. In a sense, that is not entirely surprising, since really this was not the goal. Luckily, we now have a large array of nonclassical logics that serve as alternatives.
            – Andrés E. Caicedo
            Aug 10 at 22:49




            1




            1




            @Stephen I think it's natural at the very least to assert that a false statement implies itself ...
            – Noah Schweber
            Aug 10 at 23:05




            @Stephen I think it's natural at the very least to assert that a false statement implies itself ...
            – Noah Schweber
            Aug 10 at 23:05


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