Let $A$ be an infinite subset of $Bbb N$. Then there exists a bijection from $A$ to $Bbb N$

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
2
down vote

favorite













Let $A$ be an infinite subset of $Bbb N$. Then there exists a bijection from $A$ to $Bbb N$.





My attempt:



We define $f:A to Bbb N$ by $f(a)=|a'in Amid a'<a|$.



  1. $f$ is injective

For $a_1,a_2in A$ and $a_1<a_2$, then $a'in Amid a'<a_1 subsetneq a'in Amid a'<a_2$, then $|a'in Amid a'<a_1| < |a'in Amid a'<a_2|$. Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective.



  1. $f$ is surjective

Assume the contrary that $f$ is not surjective. Let $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. It's clear that $0 in operatornameranf$ since $|f(min A)|=|a'in Amid a'<min A|=|emptyset|=0$. It follows that $0<k$. Let $k=p+1$, then $p = f(b)=|a'in Amid a'<b|$ for some $b in A$. Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$, then $a'in Amid b le a'<c=b$. Next we prove $f(c)=k$.



We have $a'in Amid a'<c =a'in Amid a'<b bigcup a'in Amid b le a'<c=a'in Amid a'<b bigcup b$, thus $|a'in Amid a'<c|=|a'in Amid a'<b| + |b|=p+1$. Thus $f(c)=p+1=k$, and consequently $k in operatornameranf$. This contradicts the fact that $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. Hence $f$ is surjective.



To sum up, $f$ is bijective.





Does this proof look fine or contain gaps? Do you have suggestions? Many thanks for your dedicated help!




Update: As @saz suggested in his answer, I did not explicitly use the fact that $A$ is infinite in my proof.




Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$...




To show that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite.










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 1




    Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
    – Crosby
    Sep 10 at 20:06











  • @Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/…. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 11 at 1:29










  • It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
    – spaceisdarkgreen
    Sep 12 at 4:28










  • Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 4:35















up vote
2
down vote

favorite













Let $A$ be an infinite subset of $Bbb N$. Then there exists a bijection from $A$ to $Bbb N$.





My attempt:



We define $f:A to Bbb N$ by $f(a)=|a'in Amid a'<a|$.



  1. $f$ is injective

For $a_1,a_2in A$ and $a_1<a_2$, then $a'in Amid a'<a_1 subsetneq a'in Amid a'<a_2$, then $|a'in Amid a'<a_1| < |a'in Amid a'<a_2|$. Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective.



  1. $f$ is surjective

Assume the contrary that $f$ is not surjective. Let $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. It's clear that $0 in operatornameranf$ since $|f(min A)|=|a'in Amid a'<min A|=|emptyset|=0$. It follows that $0<k$. Let $k=p+1$, then $p = f(b)=|a'in Amid a'<b|$ for some $b in A$. Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$, then $a'in Amid b le a'<c=b$. Next we prove $f(c)=k$.



We have $a'in Amid a'<c =a'in Amid a'<b bigcup a'in Amid b le a'<c=a'in Amid a'<b bigcup b$, thus $|a'in Amid a'<c|=|a'in Amid a'<b| + |b|=p+1$. Thus $f(c)=p+1=k$, and consequently $k in operatornameranf$. This contradicts the fact that $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. Hence $f$ is surjective.



To sum up, $f$ is bijective.





Does this proof look fine or contain gaps? Do you have suggestions? Many thanks for your dedicated help!




Update: As @saz suggested in his answer, I did not explicitly use the fact that $A$ is infinite in my proof.




Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$...




To show that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite.










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 1




    Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
    – Crosby
    Sep 10 at 20:06











  • @Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/…. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 11 at 1:29










  • It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
    – spaceisdarkgreen
    Sep 12 at 4:28










  • Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 4:35













up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite












Let $A$ be an infinite subset of $Bbb N$. Then there exists a bijection from $A$ to $Bbb N$.





My attempt:



We define $f:A to Bbb N$ by $f(a)=|a'in Amid a'<a|$.



  1. $f$ is injective

For $a_1,a_2in A$ and $a_1<a_2$, then $a'in Amid a'<a_1 subsetneq a'in Amid a'<a_2$, then $|a'in Amid a'<a_1| < |a'in Amid a'<a_2|$. Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective.



  1. $f$ is surjective

Assume the contrary that $f$ is not surjective. Let $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. It's clear that $0 in operatornameranf$ since $|f(min A)|=|a'in Amid a'<min A|=|emptyset|=0$. It follows that $0<k$. Let $k=p+1$, then $p = f(b)=|a'in Amid a'<b|$ for some $b in A$. Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$, then $a'in Amid b le a'<c=b$. Next we prove $f(c)=k$.



We have $a'in Amid a'<c =a'in Amid a'<b bigcup a'in Amid b le a'<c=a'in Amid a'<b bigcup b$, thus $|a'in Amid a'<c|=|a'in Amid a'<b| + |b|=p+1$. Thus $f(c)=p+1=k$, and consequently $k in operatornameranf$. This contradicts the fact that $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. Hence $f$ is surjective.



To sum up, $f$ is bijective.





Does this proof look fine or contain gaps? Do you have suggestions? Many thanks for your dedicated help!




Update: As @saz suggested in his answer, I did not explicitly use the fact that $A$ is infinite in my proof.




Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$...




To show that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite.










share|cite|improve this question
















Let $A$ be an infinite subset of $Bbb N$. Then there exists a bijection from $A$ to $Bbb N$.





My attempt:



We define $f:A to Bbb N$ by $f(a)=|a'in Amid a'<a|$.



  1. $f$ is injective

For $a_1,a_2in A$ and $a_1<a_2$, then $a'in Amid a'<a_1 subsetneq a'in Amid a'<a_2$, then $|a'in Amid a'<a_1| < |a'in Amid a'<a_2|$. Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective.



  1. $f$ is surjective

Assume the contrary that $f$ is not surjective. Let $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. It's clear that $0 in operatornameranf$ since $|f(min A)|=|a'in Amid a'<min A|=|emptyset|=0$. It follows that $0<k$. Let $k=p+1$, then $p = f(b)=|a'in Amid a'<b|$ for some $b in A$. Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$, then $a'in Amid b le a'<c=b$. Next we prove $f(c)=k$.



We have $a'in Amid a'<c =a'in Amid a'<b bigcup a'in Amid b le a'<c=a'in Amid a'<b bigcup b$, thus $|a'in Amid a'<c|=|a'in Amid a'<b| + |b|=p+1$. Thus $f(c)=p+1=k$, and consequently $k in operatornameranf$. This contradicts the fact that $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. Hence $f$ is surjective.



To sum up, $f$ is bijective.





Does this proof look fine or contain gaps? Do you have suggestions? Many thanks for your dedicated help!




Update: As @saz suggested in his answer, I did not explicitly use the fact that $A$ is infinite in my proof.




Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$...




To show that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite.







functions elementary-set-theory proof-verification






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Sep 12 at 14:39

























asked Sep 9 at 8:10









Le Anh Dung

784419




784419







  • 1




    Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
    – Crosby
    Sep 10 at 20:06











  • @Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/…. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 11 at 1:29










  • It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
    – spaceisdarkgreen
    Sep 12 at 4:28










  • Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 4:35













  • 1




    Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
    – Crosby
    Sep 10 at 20:06











  • @Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/…. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 11 at 1:29










  • It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
    – spaceisdarkgreen
    Sep 12 at 4:28










  • Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 4:35








1




1




Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
– Crosby
Sep 10 at 20:06





Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
– Crosby
Sep 10 at 20:06













@Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/…. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 11 at 1:29




@Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/…. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 11 at 1:29












It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
– spaceisdarkgreen
Sep 12 at 4:28




It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
– spaceisdarkgreen
Sep 12 at 4:28












Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 4:35





Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 4:35











2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote



accepted
+50










As far as I can see, your reasoning is fine. Some remarks:



Remark 1: From your proof it is not really clear where you use that $A$ is infinite so I would stress this fact a bit more at the place(s) where you need it.



Remark 2:




Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective




Perhaps you could expand this a bit and write




Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. This shows that $f$ is strictly increasing and hence injective.




This is probably a matter of taste, but in my opinion it often helps to name things. Many reader are aware of certain implications ( e.g. "strictly monotone $implies$ injective" or "differentiable $implies$ continuous or...) and it helps them to point them to the implication which you are using. Here it is quite obvious, but once you are dealing with more abstract/complicated objects, this becomes more important.



Remark 3:




Assume that $f$ is not surjective




This is certainly also a matter of taste, but I would find it more straight-forward to prove the assertion directly by induction. Essentially this is already what you are doing, but you are doing it (kind of artifically, in my opinion) by contradiction.




Claim: $k in textran , f$ for all $k in mathbbN_0$.




$k=0$: ... that's the first part of the first paragraph on surjectivity.



$k to k+1$: If $k in textran , f$, then $k=f(b)$ for some $b in A$ and you can follow exactly your reasoning to construct $c in A$ such that $f(c)=k+1$.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:48











  • Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:53










  • Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:55










  • I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:58






  • 1




    @LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:05


















up vote
2
down vote













The proof of injectivity is correct. The fact that $A$ is infinite is not needed for this.



No contradiction is necessary for surjectivity.



First, $0=f(min A)$.



Suppose $k=f(a)$; we want to find $a'in A$ with $f(a')=k+1$. This will prove that the image of $f$ is $mathbbN$.



Since $A$ is infinite, the set $B=bin A:b>a$ is not empty. Let $a'=min B$.



Then $xin A:x<a'=xin A:x<acupa$. One inclusion is clear. Let $yinxin A:x<a'$. If $y<a$, then $yinxin A:x<a$; otherwise $yge a$, so $ale y<a'$ and we conclude $y=a$ by minimality of $a'$.



Since $xin A:x<acapa=emptyset$, we have
$$
|xin A:x<a'|=|xin A:x<acupa|=k+1
$$




A different approach uses Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein and the following theorem (which depends on countable choice).




If $A$ is infinite, there exists an injective map $fcolonmathbbNto A$. Therefore $|mathbbN|le|A|$.




Here $A$ need not be a subset of $mathbbN$.



Since $AsubseteqmathbbN$, we have $|A|le|mathbbN|$.



By Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein, $|A|=|mathbbN|$.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:08










  • @saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
    – egreg
    Sep 12 at 15:11










  • As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:13











Your Answer




StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: false,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);













 

draft saved


draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2910530%2flet-a-be-an-infinite-subset-of-bbb-n-then-there-exists-a-bijection-from-a%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest






























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
2
down vote



accepted
+50










As far as I can see, your reasoning is fine. Some remarks:



Remark 1: From your proof it is not really clear where you use that $A$ is infinite so I would stress this fact a bit more at the place(s) where you need it.



Remark 2:




Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective




Perhaps you could expand this a bit and write




Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. This shows that $f$ is strictly increasing and hence injective.




This is probably a matter of taste, but in my opinion it often helps to name things. Many reader are aware of certain implications ( e.g. "strictly monotone $implies$ injective" or "differentiable $implies$ continuous or...) and it helps them to point them to the implication which you are using. Here it is quite obvious, but once you are dealing with more abstract/complicated objects, this becomes more important.



Remark 3:




Assume that $f$ is not surjective




This is certainly also a matter of taste, but I would find it more straight-forward to prove the assertion directly by induction. Essentially this is already what you are doing, but you are doing it (kind of artifically, in my opinion) by contradiction.




Claim: $k in textran , f$ for all $k in mathbbN_0$.




$k=0$: ... that's the first part of the first paragraph on surjectivity.



$k to k+1$: If $k in textran , f$, then $k=f(b)$ for some $b in A$ and you can follow exactly your reasoning to construct $c in A$ such that $f(c)=k+1$.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:48











  • Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:53










  • Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:55










  • I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:58






  • 1




    @LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:05















up vote
2
down vote



accepted
+50










As far as I can see, your reasoning is fine. Some remarks:



Remark 1: From your proof it is not really clear where you use that $A$ is infinite so I would stress this fact a bit more at the place(s) where you need it.



Remark 2:




Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective




Perhaps you could expand this a bit and write




Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. This shows that $f$ is strictly increasing and hence injective.




This is probably a matter of taste, but in my opinion it often helps to name things. Many reader are aware of certain implications ( e.g. "strictly monotone $implies$ injective" or "differentiable $implies$ continuous or...) and it helps them to point them to the implication which you are using. Here it is quite obvious, but once you are dealing with more abstract/complicated objects, this becomes more important.



Remark 3:




Assume that $f$ is not surjective




This is certainly also a matter of taste, but I would find it more straight-forward to prove the assertion directly by induction. Essentially this is already what you are doing, but you are doing it (kind of artifically, in my opinion) by contradiction.




Claim: $k in textran , f$ for all $k in mathbbN_0$.




$k=0$: ... that's the first part of the first paragraph on surjectivity.



$k to k+1$: If $k in textran , f$, then $k=f(b)$ for some $b in A$ and you can follow exactly your reasoning to construct $c in A$ such that $f(c)=k+1$.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:48











  • Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:53










  • Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:55










  • I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:58






  • 1




    @LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:05













up vote
2
down vote



accepted
+50







up vote
2
down vote



accepted
+50




+50




As far as I can see, your reasoning is fine. Some remarks:



Remark 1: From your proof it is not really clear where you use that $A$ is infinite so I would stress this fact a bit more at the place(s) where you need it.



Remark 2:




Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective




Perhaps you could expand this a bit and write




Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. This shows that $f$ is strictly increasing and hence injective.




This is probably a matter of taste, but in my opinion it often helps to name things. Many reader are aware of certain implications ( e.g. "strictly monotone $implies$ injective" or "differentiable $implies$ continuous or...) and it helps them to point them to the implication which you are using. Here it is quite obvious, but once you are dealing with more abstract/complicated objects, this becomes more important.



Remark 3:




Assume that $f$ is not surjective




This is certainly also a matter of taste, but I would find it more straight-forward to prove the assertion directly by induction. Essentially this is already what you are doing, but you are doing it (kind of artifically, in my opinion) by contradiction.




Claim: $k in textran , f$ for all $k in mathbbN_0$.




$k=0$: ... that's the first part of the first paragraph on surjectivity.



$k to k+1$: If $k in textran , f$, then $k=f(b)$ for some $b in A$ and you can follow exactly your reasoning to construct $c in A$ such that $f(c)=k+1$.






share|cite|improve this answer














As far as I can see, your reasoning is fine. Some remarks:



Remark 1: From your proof it is not really clear where you use that $A$ is infinite so I would stress this fact a bit more at the place(s) where you need it.



Remark 2:




Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective




Perhaps you could expand this a bit and write




Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. This shows that $f$ is strictly increasing and hence injective.




This is probably a matter of taste, but in my opinion it often helps to name things. Many reader are aware of certain implications ( e.g. "strictly monotone $implies$ injective" or "differentiable $implies$ continuous or...) and it helps them to point them to the implication which you are using. Here it is quite obvious, but once you are dealing with more abstract/complicated objects, this becomes more important.



Remark 3:




Assume that $f$ is not surjective




This is certainly also a matter of taste, but I would find it more straight-forward to prove the assertion directly by induction. Essentially this is already what you are doing, but you are doing it (kind of artifically, in my opinion) by contradiction.




Claim: $k in textran , f$ for all $k in mathbbN_0$.




$k=0$: ... that's the first part of the first paragraph on surjectivity.



$k to k+1$: If $k in textran , f$, then $k=f(b)$ for some $b in A$ and you can follow exactly your reasoning to construct $c in A$ such that $f(c)=k+1$.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Sep 12 at 15:06

























answered Sep 12 at 12:59









saz

74.1k554113




74.1k554113











  • Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:48











  • Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:53










  • Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:55










  • I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:58






  • 1




    @LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:05

















  • Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:48











  • Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:53










  • Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:55










  • I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
    – Le Anh Dung
    Sep 12 at 14:58






  • 1




    @LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:05
















Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:48





Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:48













Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:53




Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:53












Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:55




Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:55












I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:58




I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
– Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:58




1




1




@LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
– saz
Sep 12 at 15:05





@LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
– saz
Sep 12 at 15:05











up vote
2
down vote













The proof of injectivity is correct. The fact that $A$ is infinite is not needed for this.



No contradiction is necessary for surjectivity.



First, $0=f(min A)$.



Suppose $k=f(a)$; we want to find $a'in A$ with $f(a')=k+1$. This will prove that the image of $f$ is $mathbbN$.



Since $A$ is infinite, the set $B=bin A:b>a$ is not empty. Let $a'=min B$.



Then $xin A:x<a'=xin A:x<acupa$. One inclusion is clear. Let $yinxin A:x<a'$. If $y<a$, then $yinxin A:x<a$; otherwise $yge a$, so $ale y<a'$ and we conclude $y=a$ by minimality of $a'$.



Since $xin A:x<acapa=emptyset$, we have
$$
|xin A:x<a'|=|xin A:x<acupa|=k+1
$$




A different approach uses Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein and the following theorem (which depends on countable choice).




If $A$ is infinite, there exists an injective map $fcolonmathbbNto A$. Therefore $|mathbbN|le|A|$.




Here $A$ need not be a subset of $mathbbN$.



Since $AsubseteqmathbbN$, we have $|A|le|mathbbN|$.



By Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein, $|A|=|mathbbN|$.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:08










  • @saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
    – egreg
    Sep 12 at 15:11










  • As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:13















up vote
2
down vote













The proof of injectivity is correct. The fact that $A$ is infinite is not needed for this.



No contradiction is necessary for surjectivity.



First, $0=f(min A)$.



Suppose $k=f(a)$; we want to find $a'in A$ with $f(a')=k+1$. This will prove that the image of $f$ is $mathbbN$.



Since $A$ is infinite, the set $B=bin A:b>a$ is not empty. Let $a'=min B$.



Then $xin A:x<a'=xin A:x<acupa$. One inclusion is clear. Let $yinxin A:x<a'$. If $y<a$, then $yinxin A:x<a$; otherwise $yge a$, so $ale y<a'$ and we conclude $y=a$ by minimality of $a'$.



Since $xin A:x<acapa=emptyset$, we have
$$
|xin A:x<a'|=|xin A:x<acupa|=k+1
$$




A different approach uses Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein and the following theorem (which depends on countable choice).




If $A$ is infinite, there exists an injective map $fcolonmathbbNto A$. Therefore $|mathbbN|le|A|$.




Here $A$ need not be a subset of $mathbbN$.



Since $AsubseteqmathbbN$, we have $|A|le|mathbbN|$.



By Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein, $|A|=|mathbbN|$.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:08










  • @saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
    – egreg
    Sep 12 at 15:11










  • As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:13













up vote
2
down vote










up vote
2
down vote









The proof of injectivity is correct. The fact that $A$ is infinite is not needed for this.



No contradiction is necessary for surjectivity.



First, $0=f(min A)$.



Suppose $k=f(a)$; we want to find $a'in A$ with $f(a')=k+1$. This will prove that the image of $f$ is $mathbbN$.



Since $A$ is infinite, the set $B=bin A:b>a$ is not empty. Let $a'=min B$.



Then $xin A:x<a'=xin A:x<acupa$. One inclusion is clear. Let $yinxin A:x<a'$. If $y<a$, then $yinxin A:x<a$; otherwise $yge a$, so $ale y<a'$ and we conclude $y=a$ by minimality of $a'$.



Since $xin A:x<acapa=emptyset$, we have
$$
|xin A:x<a'|=|xin A:x<acupa|=k+1
$$




A different approach uses Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein and the following theorem (which depends on countable choice).




If $A$ is infinite, there exists an injective map $fcolonmathbbNto A$. Therefore $|mathbbN|le|A|$.




Here $A$ need not be a subset of $mathbbN$.



Since $AsubseteqmathbbN$, we have $|A|le|mathbbN|$.



By Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein, $|A|=|mathbbN|$.






share|cite|improve this answer














The proof of injectivity is correct. The fact that $A$ is infinite is not needed for this.



No contradiction is necessary for surjectivity.



First, $0=f(min A)$.



Suppose $k=f(a)$; we want to find $a'in A$ with $f(a')=k+1$. This will prove that the image of $f$ is $mathbbN$.



Since $A$ is infinite, the set $B=bin A:b>a$ is not empty. Let $a'=min B$.



Then $xin A:x<a'=xin A:x<acupa$. One inclusion is clear. Let $yinxin A:x<a'$. If $y<a$, then $yinxin A:x<a$; otherwise $yge a$, so $ale y<a'$ and we conclude $y=a$ by minimality of $a'$.



Since $xin A:x<acapa=emptyset$, we have
$$
|xin A:x<a'|=|xin A:x<acupa|=k+1
$$




A different approach uses Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein and the following theorem (which depends on countable choice).




If $A$ is infinite, there exists an injective map $fcolonmathbbNto A$. Therefore $|mathbbN|le|A|$.




Here $A$ need not be a subset of $mathbbN$.



Since $AsubseteqmathbbN$, we have $|A|le|mathbbN|$.



By Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein, $|A|=|mathbbN|$.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Sep 12 at 15:06

























answered Sep 12 at 14:51









egreg

167k1281190




167k1281190











  • The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:08










  • @saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
    – egreg
    Sep 12 at 15:11










  • As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:13

















  • The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:08










  • @saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
    – egreg
    Sep 12 at 15:11










  • As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
    – saz
    Sep 12 at 15:13
















The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
– saz
Sep 12 at 15:08




The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
– saz
Sep 12 at 15:08












@saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
– egreg
Sep 12 at 15:11




@saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
– egreg
Sep 12 at 15:11












As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
– saz
Sep 12 at 15:13





As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
– saz
Sep 12 at 15:13


















 

draft saved


draft discarded















































 


draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2910530%2flet-a-be-an-infinite-subset-of-bbb-n-then-there-exists-a-bijection-from-a%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest













































































這個網誌中的熱門文章

How to combine Bézier curves to a surface?

Why am i infinitely getting the same tweet with the Twitter Search API?

Carbon dioxide