Let $A$ be an infinite subset of $Bbb N$. Then there exists a bijection from $A$ to $Bbb N$
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Let $A$ be an infinite subset of $Bbb N$. Then there exists a bijection from $A$ to $Bbb N$.
My attempt:
We define $f:A to Bbb N$ by $f(a)=|a'in Amid a'<a|$.
- $f$ is injective
For $a_1,a_2in A$ and $a_1<a_2$, then $a'in Amid a'<a_1 subsetneq a'in Amid a'<a_2$, then $|a'in Amid a'<a_1| < |a'in Amid a'<a_2|$. Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective.
- $f$ is surjective
Assume the contrary that $f$ is not surjective. Let $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. It's clear that $0 in operatornameranf$ since $|f(min A)|=|a'in Amid a'<min A|=|emptyset|=0$. It follows that $0<k$. Let $k=p+1$, then $p = f(b)=|a'in Amid a'<b|$ for some $b in A$. Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$, then $a'in Amid b le a'<c=b$. Next we prove $f(c)=k$.
We have $a'in Amid a'<c =a'in Amid a'<b bigcup a'in Amid b le a'<c=a'in Amid a'<b bigcup b$, thus $|a'in Amid a'<c|=|a'in Amid a'<b| + |b|=p+1$. Thus $f(c)=p+1=k$, and consequently $k in operatornameranf$. This contradicts the fact that $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. Hence $f$ is surjective.
To sum up, $f$ is bijective.
Does this proof look fine or contain gaps? Do you have suggestions? Many thanks for your dedicated help!
Update: As @saz suggested in his answer, I did not explicitly use the fact that $A$ is infinite in my proof.
Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$...
To show that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite.
functions elementary-set-theory proof-verification
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Let $A$ be an infinite subset of $Bbb N$. Then there exists a bijection from $A$ to $Bbb N$.
My attempt:
We define $f:A to Bbb N$ by $f(a)=|a'in Amid a'<a|$.
- $f$ is injective
For $a_1,a_2in A$ and $a_1<a_2$, then $a'in Amid a'<a_1 subsetneq a'in Amid a'<a_2$, then $|a'in Amid a'<a_1| < |a'in Amid a'<a_2|$. Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective.
- $f$ is surjective
Assume the contrary that $f$ is not surjective. Let $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. It's clear that $0 in operatornameranf$ since $|f(min A)|=|a'in Amid a'<min A|=|emptyset|=0$. It follows that $0<k$. Let $k=p+1$, then $p = f(b)=|a'in Amid a'<b|$ for some $b in A$. Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$, then $a'in Amid b le a'<c=b$. Next we prove $f(c)=k$.
We have $a'in Amid a'<c =a'in Amid a'<b bigcup a'in Amid b le a'<c=a'in Amid a'<b bigcup b$, thus $|a'in Amid a'<c|=|a'in Amid a'<b| + |b|=p+1$. Thus $f(c)=p+1=k$, and consequently $k in operatornameranf$. This contradicts the fact that $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. Hence $f$ is surjective.
To sum up, $f$ is bijective.
Does this proof look fine or contain gaps? Do you have suggestions? Many thanks for your dedicated help!
Update: As @saz suggested in his answer, I did not explicitly use the fact that $A$ is infinite in my proof.
Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$...
To show that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite.
functions elementary-set-theory proof-verification
1
Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
â Crosby
Sep 10 at 20:06
@Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/â¦. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 11 at 1:29
It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
â spaceisdarkgreen
Sep 12 at 4:28
Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 4:35
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Let $A$ be an infinite subset of $Bbb N$. Then there exists a bijection from $A$ to $Bbb N$.
My attempt:
We define $f:A to Bbb N$ by $f(a)=|a'in Amid a'<a|$.
- $f$ is injective
For $a_1,a_2in A$ and $a_1<a_2$, then $a'in Amid a'<a_1 subsetneq a'in Amid a'<a_2$, then $|a'in Amid a'<a_1| < |a'in Amid a'<a_2|$. Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective.
- $f$ is surjective
Assume the contrary that $f$ is not surjective. Let $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. It's clear that $0 in operatornameranf$ since $|f(min A)|=|a'in Amid a'<min A|=|emptyset|=0$. It follows that $0<k$. Let $k=p+1$, then $p = f(b)=|a'in Amid a'<b|$ for some $b in A$. Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$, then $a'in Amid b le a'<c=b$. Next we prove $f(c)=k$.
We have $a'in Amid a'<c =a'in Amid a'<b bigcup a'in Amid b le a'<c=a'in Amid a'<b bigcup b$, thus $|a'in Amid a'<c|=|a'in Amid a'<b| + |b|=p+1$. Thus $f(c)=p+1=k$, and consequently $k in operatornameranf$. This contradicts the fact that $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. Hence $f$ is surjective.
To sum up, $f$ is bijective.
Does this proof look fine or contain gaps? Do you have suggestions? Many thanks for your dedicated help!
Update: As @saz suggested in his answer, I did not explicitly use the fact that $A$ is infinite in my proof.
Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$...
To show that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite.
functions elementary-set-theory proof-verification
Let $A$ be an infinite subset of $Bbb N$. Then there exists a bijection from $A$ to $Bbb N$.
My attempt:
We define $f:A to Bbb N$ by $f(a)=|a'in Amid a'<a|$.
- $f$ is injective
For $a_1,a_2in A$ and $a_1<a_2$, then $a'in Amid a'<a_1 subsetneq a'in Amid a'<a_2$, then $|a'in Amid a'<a_1| < |a'in Amid a'<a_2|$. Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective.
- $f$ is surjective
Assume the contrary that $f$ is not surjective. Let $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. It's clear that $0 in operatornameranf$ since $|f(min A)|=|a'in Amid a'<min A|=|emptyset|=0$. It follows that $0<k$. Let $k=p+1$, then $p = f(b)=|a'in Amid a'<b|$ for some $b in A$. Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$, then $a'in Amid b le a'<c=b$. Next we prove $f(c)=k$.
We have $a'in Amid a'<c =a'in Amid a'<b bigcup a'in Amid b le a'<c=a'in Amid a'<b bigcup b$, thus $|a'in Amid a'<c|=|a'in Amid a'<b| + |b|=p+1$. Thus $f(c)=p+1=k$, and consequently $k in operatornameranf$. This contradicts the fact that $k=min n in Bbb N mid n notin operatornameranf$. Hence $f$ is surjective.
To sum up, $f$ is bijective.
Does this proof look fine or contain gaps? Do you have suggestions? Many thanks for your dedicated help!
Update: As @saz suggested in his answer, I did not explicitly use the fact that $A$ is infinite in my proof.
Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$...
To show that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite.
functions elementary-set-theory proof-verification
functions elementary-set-theory proof-verification
edited Sep 12 at 14:39
asked Sep 9 at 8:10
Le Anh Dung
784419
784419
1
Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
â Crosby
Sep 10 at 20:06
@Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/â¦. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 11 at 1:29
It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
â spaceisdarkgreen
Sep 12 at 4:28
Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 4:35
add a comment |Â
1
Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
â Crosby
Sep 10 at 20:06
@Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/â¦. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 11 at 1:29
It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
â spaceisdarkgreen
Sep 12 at 4:28
Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 4:35
1
1
Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
â Crosby
Sep 10 at 20:06
Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
â Crosby
Sep 10 at 20:06
@Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/â¦. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 11 at 1:29
@Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/â¦. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 11 at 1:29
It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
â spaceisdarkgreen
Sep 12 at 4:28
It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
â spaceisdarkgreen
Sep 12 at 4:28
Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 4:35
Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 4:35
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
As far as I can see, your reasoning is fine. Some remarks:
Remark 1: From your proof it is not really clear where you use that $A$ is infinite so I would stress this fact a bit more at the place(s) where you need it.
Remark 2:
Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective
Perhaps you could expand this a bit and write
Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. This shows that $f$ is strictly increasing and hence injective.
This is probably a matter of taste, but in my opinion it often helps to name things. Many reader are aware of certain implications ( e.g. "strictly monotone $implies$ injective" or "differentiable $implies$ continuous or...) and it helps them to point them to the implication which you are using. Here it is quite obvious, but once you are dealing with more abstract/complicated objects, this becomes more important.
Remark 3:
Assume that $f$ is not surjective
This is certainly also a matter of taste, but I would find it more straight-forward to prove the assertion directly by induction. Essentially this is already what you are doing, but you are doing it (kind of artifically, in my opinion) by contradiction.
Claim: $k in textran , f$ for all $k in mathbbN_0$.
$k=0$: ... that's the first part of the first paragraph on surjectivity.
$k to k+1$: If $k in textran , f$, then $k=f(b)$ for some $b in A$ and you can follow exactly your reasoning to construct $c in A$ such that $f(c)=k+1$.
Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:48
Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:53
Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:55
I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:58
1
@LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:05
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
The proof of injectivity is correct. The fact that $A$ is infinite is not needed for this.
No contradiction is necessary for surjectivity.
First, $0=f(min A)$.
Suppose $k=f(a)$; we want to find $a'in A$ with $f(a')=k+1$. This will prove that the image of $f$ is $mathbbN$.
Since $A$ is infinite, the set $B=bin A:b>a$ is not empty. Let $a'=min B$.
Then $xin A:x<a'=xin A:x<acupa$. One inclusion is clear. Let $yinxin A:x<a'$. If $y<a$, then $yinxin A:x<a$; otherwise $yge a$, so $ale y<a'$ and we conclude $y=a$ by minimality of $a'$.
Since $xin A:x<acapa=emptyset$, we have
$$
|xin A:x<a'|=|xin A:x<acupa|=k+1
$$
A different approach uses Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein and the following theorem (which depends on countable choice).
If $A$ is infinite, there exists an injective map $fcolonmathbbNto A$. Therefore $|mathbbN|le|A|$.
Here $A$ need not be a subset of $mathbbN$.
Since $AsubseteqmathbbN$, we have $|A|le|mathbbN|$.
By Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein, $|A|=|mathbbN|$.
The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:08
@saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
â egreg
Sep 12 at 15:11
As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:13
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
As far as I can see, your reasoning is fine. Some remarks:
Remark 1: From your proof it is not really clear where you use that $A$ is infinite so I would stress this fact a bit more at the place(s) where you need it.
Remark 2:
Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective
Perhaps you could expand this a bit and write
Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. This shows that $f$ is strictly increasing and hence injective.
This is probably a matter of taste, but in my opinion it often helps to name things. Many reader are aware of certain implications ( e.g. "strictly monotone $implies$ injective" or "differentiable $implies$ continuous or...) and it helps them to point them to the implication which you are using. Here it is quite obvious, but once you are dealing with more abstract/complicated objects, this becomes more important.
Remark 3:
Assume that $f$ is not surjective
This is certainly also a matter of taste, but I would find it more straight-forward to prove the assertion directly by induction. Essentially this is already what you are doing, but you are doing it (kind of artifically, in my opinion) by contradiction.
Claim: $k in textran , f$ for all $k in mathbbN_0$.
$k=0$: ... that's the first part of the first paragraph on surjectivity.
$k to k+1$: If $k in textran , f$, then $k=f(b)$ for some $b in A$ and you can follow exactly your reasoning to construct $c in A$ such that $f(c)=k+1$.
Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:48
Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:53
Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:55
I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:58
1
@LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:05
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
As far as I can see, your reasoning is fine. Some remarks:
Remark 1: From your proof it is not really clear where you use that $A$ is infinite so I would stress this fact a bit more at the place(s) where you need it.
Remark 2:
Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective
Perhaps you could expand this a bit and write
Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. This shows that $f$ is strictly increasing and hence injective.
This is probably a matter of taste, but in my opinion it often helps to name things. Many reader are aware of certain implications ( e.g. "strictly monotone $implies$ injective" or "differentiable $implies$ continuous or...) and it helps them to point them to the implication which you are using. Here it is quite obvious, but once you are dealing with more abstract/complicated objects, this becomes more important.
Remark 3:
Assume that $f$ is not surjective
This is certainly also a matter of taste, but I would find it more straight-forward to prove the assertion directly by induction. Essentially this is already what you are doing, but you are doing it (kind of artifically, in my opinion) by contradiction.
Claim: $k in textran , f$ for all $k in mathbbN_0$.
$k=0$: ... that's the first part of the first paragraph on surjectivity.
$k to k+1$: If $k in textran , f$, then $k=f(b)$ for some $b in A$ and you can follow exactly your reasoning to construct $c in A$ such that $f(c)=k+1$.
Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:48
Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:53
Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:55
I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:58
1
@LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:05
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
As far as I can see, your reasoning is fine. Some remarks:
Remark 1: From your proof it is not really clear where you use that $A$ is infinite so I would stress this fact a bit more at the place(s) where you need it.
Remark 2:
Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective
Perhaps you could expand this a bit and write
Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. This shows that $f$ is strictly increasing and hence injective.
This is probably a matter of taste, but in my opinion it often helps to name things. Many reader are aware of certain implications ( e.g. "strictly monotone $implies$ injective" or "differentiable $implies$ continuous or...) and it helps them to point them to the implication which you are using. Here it is quite obvious, but once you are dealing with more abstract/complicated objects, this becomes more important.
Remark 3:
Assume that $f$ is not surjective
This is certainly also a matter of taste, but I would find it more straight-forward to prove the assertion directly by induction. Essentially this is already what you are doing, but you are doing it (kind of artifically, in my opinion) by contradiction.
Claim: $k in textran , f$ for all $k in mathbbN_0$.
$k=0$: ... that's the first part of the first paragraph on surjectivity.
$k to k+1$: If $k in textran , f$, then $k=f(b)$ for some $b in A$ and you can follow exactly your reasoning to construct $c in A$ such that $f(c)=k+1$.
As far as I can see, your reasoning is fine. Some remarks:
Remark 1: From your proof it is not really clear where you use that $A$ is infinite so I would stress this fact a bit more at the place(s) where you need it.
Remark 2:
Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. It follows that $f$ is injective
Perhaps you could expand this a bit and write
Thus $f(a_1)<f(a_2)$. This shows that $f$ is strictly increasing and hence injective.
This is probably a matter of taste, but in my opinion it often helps to name things. Many reader are aware of certain implications ( e.g. "strictly monotone $implies$ injective" or "differentiable $implies$ continuous or...) and it helps them to point them to the implication which you are using. Here it is quite obvious, but once you are dealing with more abstract/complicated objects, this becomes more important.
Remark 3:
Assume that $f$ is not surjective
This is certainly also a matter of taste, but I would find it more straight-forward to prove the assertion directly by induction. Essentially this is already what you are doing, but you are doing it (kind of artifically, in my opinion) by contradiction.
Claim: $k in textran , f$ for all $k in mathbbN_0$.
$k=0$: ... that's the first part of the first paragraph on surjectivity.
$k to k+1$: If $k in textran , f$, then $k=f(b)$ for some $b in A$ and you can follow exactly your reasoning to construct $c in A$ such that $f(c)=k+1$.
edited Sep 12 at 15:06
answered Sep 12 at 12:59
saz
74.1k554113
74.1k554113
Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:48
Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:53
Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:55
I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:58
1
@LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:05
add a comment |Â
Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:48
Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:53
Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:55
I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:58
1
@LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:05
Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:48
Regarding your Remark 1, I think I'm sloppy where I Let $c=min a' in A mid b<a'$ ... without justifying the existence of such $c$. To prove that such $c$ does exists, we must prove that $a' in A mid b<a'neq emptyset$. This claim is justified by the fact that $A$ is infinite. Did you find other places where I must appeal to the fact that $A$ is infinite but I did not?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:48
Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:53
Regarding your Remark 2, I will try to be as specific as possible from now on. Yes, to name things makes me truly understand what I wrote and helps other people figure out what's going on more easily. That's huge benefit.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:53
Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:55
Regarding your Remark 3, Yes, it's just a matter of taste. Your direct proof is more straightforward and clear. I will try to make use of this direct approach in other proofs.
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:55
I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:58
I'm very very thankful for your answer. I must say it's really useful and helps me understand subtle points such as I did not mention the fact that $A$ is infinite where it should be mentioned. I have been waiting for your answer for several days ^^
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 14:58
1
1
@LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:05
@LeAnhDung You are welcome. I think the well-definedness of $c$ is indeed the only place where you need that $A$ is infinite.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:05
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
The proof of injectivity is correct. The fact that $A$ is infinite is not needed for this.
No contradiction is necessary for surjectivity.
First, $0=f(min A)$.
Suppose $k=f(a)$; we want to find $a'in A$ with $f(a')=k+1$. This will prove that the image of $f$ is $mathbbN$.
Since $A$ is infinite, the set $B=bin A:b>a$ is not empty. Let $a'=min B$.
Then $xin A:x<a'=xin A:x<acupa$. One inclusion is clear. Let $yinxin A:x<a'$. If $y<a$, then $yinxin A:x<a$; otherwise $yge a$, so $ale y<a'$ and we conclude $y=a$ by minimality of $a'$.
Since $xin A:x<acapa=emptyset$, we have
$$
|xin A:x<a'|=|xin A:x<acupa|=k+1
$$
A different approach uses Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein and the following theorem (which depends on countable choice).
If $A$ is infinite, there exists an injective map $fcolonmathbbNto A$. Therefore $|mathbbN|le|A|$.
Here $A$ need not be a subset of $mathbbN$.
Since $AsubseteqmathbbN$, we have $|A|le|mathbbN|$.
By Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein, $|A|=|mathbbN|$.
The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:08
@saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
â egreg
Sep 12 at 15:11
As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:13
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
The proof of injectivity is correct. The fact that $A$ is infinite is not needed for this.
No contradiction is necessary for surjectivity.
First, $0=f(min A)$.
Suppose $k=f(a)$; we want to find $a'in A$ with $f(a')=k+1$. This will prove that the image of $f$ is $mathbbN$.
Since $A$ is infinite, the set $B=bin A:b>a$ is not empty. Let $a'=min B$.
Then $xin A:x<a'=xin A:x<acupa$. One inclusion is clear. Let $yinxin A:x<a'$. If $y<a$, then $yinxin A:x<a$; otherwise $yge a$, so $ale y<a'$ and we conclude $y=a$ by minimality of $a'$.
Since $xin A:x<acapa=emptyset$, we have
$$
|xin A:x<a'|=|xin A:x<acupa|=k+1
$$
A different approach uses Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein and the following theorem (which depends on countable choice).
If $A$ is infinite, there exists an injective map $fcolonmathbbNto A$. Therefore $|mathbbN|le|A|$.
Here $A$ need not be a subset of $mathbbN$.
Since $AsubseteqmathbbN$, we have $|A|le|mathbbN|$.
By Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein, $|A|=|mathbbN|$.
The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:08
@saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
â egreg
Sep 12 at 15:11
As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:13
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
The proof of injectivity is correct. The fact that $A$ is infinite is not needed for this.
No contradiction is necessary for surjectivity.
First, $0=f(min A)$.
Suppose $k=f(a)$; we want to find $a'in A$ with $f(a')=k+1$. This will prove that the image of $f$ is $mathbbN$.
Since $A$ is infinite, the set $B=bin A:b>a$ is not empty. Let $a'=min B$.
Then $xin A:x<a'=xin A:x<acupa$. One inclusion is clear. Let $yinxin A:x<a'$. If $y<a$, then $yinxin A:x<a$; otherwise $yge a$, so $ale y<a'$ and we conclude $y=a$ by minimality of $a'$.
Since $xin A:x<acapa=emptyset$, we have
$$
|xin A:x<a'|=|xin A:x<acupa|=k+1
$$
A different approach uses Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein and the following theorem (which depends on countable choice).
If $A$ is infinite, there exists an injective map $fcolonmathbbNto A$. Therefore $|mathbbN|le|A|$.
Here $A$ need not be a subset of $mathbbN$.
Since $AsubseteqmathbbN$, we have $|A|le|mathbbN|$.
By Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein, $|A|=|mathbbN|$.
The proof of injectivity is correct. The fact that $A$ is infinite is not needed for this.
No contradiction is necessary for surjectivity.
First, $0=f(min A)$.
Suppose $k=f(a)$; we want to find $a'in A$ with $f(a')=k+1$. This will prove that the image of $f$ is $mathbbN$.
Since $A$ is infinite, the set $B=bin A:b>a$ is not empty. Let $a'=min B$.
Then $xin A:x<a'=xin A:x<acupa$. One inclusion is clear. Let $yinxin A:x<a'$. If $y<a$, then $yinxin A:x<a$; otherwise $yge a$, so $ale y<a'$ and we conclude $y=a$ by minimality of $a'$.
Since $xin A:x<acapa=emptyset$, we have
$$
|xin A:x<a'|=|xin A:x<acupa|=k+1
$$
A different approach uses Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein and the following theorem (which depends on countable choice).
If $A$ is infinite, there exists an injective map $fcolonmathbbNto A$. Therefore $|mathbbN|le|A|$.
Here $A$ need not be a subset of $mathbbN$.
Since $AsubseteqmathbbN$, we have $|A|le|mathbbN|$.
By Cantor-Schröder-Bernstein, $|A|=|mathbbN|$.
edited Sep 12 at 15:06
answered Sep 12 at 14:51
egreg
167k1281190
167k1281190
The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:08
@saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
â egreg
Sep 12 at 15:11
As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:13
add a comment |Â
The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:08
@saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
â egreg
Sep 12 at 15:11
As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:13
The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:08
The first part of your answer is exactly what I suggested in my answer (Remark 3) or am I missing something...?
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:08
@saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
â egreg
Sep 12 at 15:11
@saz I always suggest to avoid contradiction if not necessary.
â egreg
Sep 12 at 15:11
As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:13
As you can see from my answer, I totally agree with that advice.
â saz
Sep 12 at 15:13
add a comment |Â
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1
Define $$a_n:=minxin A:forall m<n: xneq a_m$$ where $a_0:=min(A)$. Consider the mapping $f:Bbb Nto X:nmapsto a_n$.
â Crosby
Sep 10 at 20:06
@Crosby I got your approach. I did utilize your approach in in another proof at math.stackexchange.com/questions/2909659/â¦. My main concern is whether my proof contains any error. Could you please have a check on it?
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 11 at 1:29
It honestly takes more effort than most people have to go through a long, complicated argument and check for correctness, when there's a much simpler argument available (like what Crosby suggests here). The point is that your $f$ is the collapse of $A'$ onto its order type. You can get surjectivity by observing that when you iterate least-element-selection $n+1$ times, the final $a$ you get has $f(a)=n.$ (So your $f$ is precisely the inverse of the bijection Crosby recommends you recursively construct.)
â spaceisdarkgreen
Sep 12 at 4:28
Hi @spaceisdarkgreen, As I'm really aware of that, I tried to write the proof as clear as possible. Thus people don't take much time to figure out what's going on :)
â Le Anh Dung
Sep 12 at 4:35