Determine generated groups

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Let $G=langle U,Jrangle$ be the subgroup of $mathrmGL_2(mathbbQ)$ generated by $$U=beginpmatrix-1 & 1 \ -1 & 0endpmatrix text and J=beginpmatrix 0 & 1 \ -1 & 0endpmatrix.$$
I have to determine $mathrmord(U)$, $mathrmord(J)$, $mathrmord(UJ)$ and show that $Gne U^kJ^lcolon k,linmathbbZ$.




Although, I think I solved it, I am wondering, since I am a beginner in this subject, if there would have been any more systematic or elegant way to do this.



Here is what I did:



Firstly, I computed the different powers of the generators $U$ and $J$.



$U^2=beginpmatrix 0 & -1\ 1 & -1endpmatrix; U^3=beginpmatrix 1 & 0\ 0 & 1endpmatrix;U^-1=U^2$



I can conclude from this that $mathrmord(U)=3$. I then did the same for $J$:



$J^2=beginpmatrix -1 & 0\ 0 & -1endpmatrix; J^3=beginpmatrix 0 & -1\ 1 & 0endpmatrix;J^4=mathrmid;J^-1=J^3$



So the order must be 4. The same goes for $UJ$ where the order is non finite.



Would there be any other way to do this?



Then for the last issue: To show the inequality I sought to get an element of $G$ which is not of the described form. I tried $UJU=beginpmatrix2 & -1\-1 & 0endpmatrix$. Since $J^-1=J^3$ and similar for $U$, I can restrict to looking if $UJUin U^kJ^lcolon k,lin1,2,3$, also because of the order of $J$ and $U$.



Is my strategy reasonable?










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    Let $G=langle U,Jrangle$ be the subgroup of $mathrmGL_2(mathbbQ)$ generated by $$U=beginpmatrix-1 & 1 \ -1 & 0endpmatrix text and J=beginpmatrix 0 & 1 \ -1 & 0endpmatrix.$$
    I have to determine $mathrmord(U)$, $mathrmord(J)$, $mathrmord(UJ)$ and show that $Gne U^kJ^lcolon k,linmathbbZ$.




    Although, I think I solved it, I am wondering, since I am a beginner in this subject, if there would have been any more systematic or elegant way to do this.



    Here is what I did:



    Firstly, I computed the different powers of the generators $U$ and $J$.



    $U^2=beginpmatrix 0 & -1\ 1 & -1endpmatrix; U^3=beginpmatrix 1 & 0\ 0 & 1endpmatrix;U^-1=U^2$



    I can conclude from this that $mathrmord(U)=3$. I then did the same for $J$:



    $J^2=beginpmatrix -1 & 0\ 0 & -1endpmatrix; J^3=beginpmatrix 0 & -1\ 1 & 0endpmatrix;J^4=mathrmid;J^-1=J^3$



    So the order must be 4. The same goes for $UJ$ where the order is non finite.



    Would there be any other way to do this?



    Then for the last issue: To show the inequality I sought to get an element of $G$ which is not of the described form. I tried $UJU=beginpmatrix2 & -1\-1 & 0endpmatrix$. Since $J^-1=J^3$ and similar for $U$, I can restrict to looking if $UJUin U^kJ^lcolon k,lin1,2,3$, also because of the order of $J$ and $U$.



    Is my strategy reasonable?










    share|cite|improve this question

























      up vote
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      down vote

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      up vote
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      down vote

      favorite












      Let $G=langle U,Jrangle$ be the subgroup of $mathrmGL_2(mathbbQ)$ generated by $$U=beginpmatrix-1 & 1 \ -1 & 0endpmatrix text and J=beginpmatrix 0 & 1 \ -1 & 0endpmatrix.$$
      I have to determine $mathrmord(U)$, $mathrmord(J)$, $mathrmord(UJ)$ and show that $Gne U^kJ^lcolon k,linmathbbZ$.




      Although, I think I solved it, I am wondering, since I am a beginner in this subject, if there would have been any more systematic or elegant way to do this.



      Here is what I did:



      Firstly, I computed the different powers of the generators $U$ and $J$.



      $U^2=beginpmatrix 0 & -1\ 1 & -1endpmatrix; U^3=beginpmatrix 1 & 0\ 0 & 1endpmatrix;U^-1=U^2$



      I can conclude from this that $mathrmord(U)=3$. I then did the same for $J$:



      $J^2=beginpmatrix -1 & 0\ 0 & -1endpmatrix; J^3=beginpmatrix 0 & -1\ 1 & 0endpmatrix;J^4=mathrmid;J^-1=J^3$



      So the order must be 4. The same goes for $UJ$ where the order is non finite.



      Would there be any other way to do this?



      Then for the last issue: To show the inequality I sought to get an element of $G$ which is not of the described form. I tried $UJU=beginpmatrix2 & -1\-1 & 0endpmatrix$. Since $J^-1=J^3$ and similar for $U$, I can restrict to looking if $UJUin U^kJ^lcolon k,lin1,2,3$, also because of the order of $J$ and $U$.



      Is my strategy reasonable?










      share|cite|improve this question
















      Let $G=langle U,Jrangle$ be the subgroup of $mathrmGL_2(mathbbQ)$ generated by $$U=beginpmatrix-1 & 1 \ -1 & 0endpmatrix text and J=beginpmatrix 0 & 1 \ -1 & 0endpmatrix.$$
      I have to determine $mathrmord(U)$, $mathrmord(J)$, $mathrmord(UJ)$ and show that $Gne U^kJ^lcolon k,linmathbbZ$.




      Although, I think I solved it, I am wondering, since I am a beginner in this subject, if there would have been any more systematic or elegant way to do this.



      Here is what I did:



      Firstly, I computed the different powers of the generators $U$ and $J$.



      $U^2=beginpmatrix 0 & -1\ 1 & -1endpmatrix; U^3=beginpmatrix 1 & 0\ 0 & 1endpmatrix;U^-1=U^2$



      I can conclude from this that $mathrmord(U)=3$. I then did the same for $J$:



      $J^2=beginpmatrix -1 & 0\ 0 & -1endpmatrix; J^3=beginpmatrix 0 & -1\ 1 & 0endpmatrix;J^4=mathrmid;J^-1=J^3$



      So the order must be 4. The same goes for $UJ$ where the order is non finite.



      Would there be any other way to do this?



      Then for the last issue: To show the inequality I sought to get an element of $G$ which is not of the described form. I tried $UJU=beginpmatrix2 & -1\-1 & 0endpmatrix$. Since $J^-1=J^3$ and similar for $U$, I can restrict to looking if $UJUin U^kJ^lcolon k,lin1,2,3$, also because of the order of $J$ and $U$.



      Is my strategy reasonable?







      abstract-algebra group-theory






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      edited Sep 9 at 8:23









      user26857

      38.9k123778




      38.9k123778










      asked Mar 22 at 14:28









      EpsilonDelta

      5321513




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          Clearly the powers $(UJ)^n$ or $(JU)^n$ are not all of the form $U^kJ^l$, because $U^3=J^4=I_2$, but
          $$
          (JU)^n=beginpmatrix -1 & (-1)^n ncr 0 & -1 endpmatrix.
          $$
          So there are only finitely many matrices of the form $U^kJ^l$, but infinitely many matrices of the form $(UJ)^n$. So you are done.






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            1 Answer
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            up vote
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            accepted










            Clearly the powers $(UJ)^n$ or $(JU)^n$ are not all of the form $U^kJ^l$, because $U^3=J^4=I_2$, but
            $$
            (JU)^n=beginpmatrix -1 & (-1)^n ncr 0 & -1 endpmatrix.
            $$
            So there are only finitely many matrices of the form $U^kJ^l$, but infinitely many matrices of the form $(UJ)^n$. So you are done.






            share|cite|improve this answer


























              up vote
              1
              down vote



              accepted










              Clearly the powers $(UJ)^n$ or $(JU)^n$ are not all of the form $U^kJ^l$, because $U^3=J^4=I_2$, but
              $$
              (JU)^n=beginpmatrix -1 & (-1)^n ncr 0 & -1 endpmatrix.
              $$
              So there are only finitely many matrices of the form $U^kJ^l$, but infinitely many matrices of the form $(UJ)^n$. So you are done.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                1
                down vote



                accepted







                up vote
                1
                down vote



                accepted






                Clearly the powers $(UJ)^n$ or $(JU)^n$ are not all of the form $U^kJ^l$, because $U^3=J^4=I_2$, but
                $$
                (JU)^n=beginpmatrix -1 & (-1)^n ncr 0 & -1 endpmatrix.
                $$
                So there are only finitely many matrices of the form $U^kJ^l$, but infinitely many matrices of the form $(UJ)^n$. So you are done.






                share|cite|improve this answer














                Clearly the powers $(UJ)^n$ or $(JU)^n$ are not all of the form $U^kJ^l$, because $U^3=J^4=I_2$, but
                $$
                (JU)^n=beginpmatrix -1 & (-1)^n ncr 0 & -1 endpmatrix.
                $$
                So there are only finitely many matrices of the form $U^kJ^l$, but infinitely many matrices of the form $(UJ)^n$. So you are done.







                share|cite|improve this answer














                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer








                edited Mar 22 at 15:13

























                answered Mar 22 at 14:50









                Dietrich Burde

                75.2k64185




                75.2k64185



























                     

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