Is there $fcolon[0,infty)tomathbb R$ cont. converging to 0 such that $f^-1(y)simeq mathbb N$ or empty for every y in $(-epsilon, epsilon)$?

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
2
down vote

favorite












$DeclareMathOperatorimImnewcommandpme(-epsilon,epsilon)newcommandpmec[-epsilon,epsilon]$This is oddly specific, but in an attempt to analyze a special case of this unanswered question, this came about.



I am interested in whether a
continuous function with the following properties exists:



  • $fcolon[0,infty)tomathbb R$

  • $f$ converges zo zero, i.e. $forall epsilon>0exists xin
    [0,infty): f[x,infty)subseteq (-epsilon,epsilon)$

  • $f$ has „countably infinite multiplicity in a neighborhood of 0“, by
    which I mean that for for every $y$ in the image and some
    neighborhood of 0, $f^-1(y)simeq mathbb N$

Intuition



My intuition says „no“, because the only function I can imagine that
has this multiplicity property is e.g. $sin x$, but that „diverges“
too heavily. If we fix that by „pressing it down“, like in
$x^-1sin x$, the only element of the image with countably infinite
multiplicity is $y=0$.



Note that it is vital to include $0$ in the domain, because else we
could use glue the left part of the topologists sine curve $sin
(x^-1)$ to the right part of $sin x/x$, and get a desired function.



To be perfectly honest, the convergence to the right and the inclusion
of the $0$ to the left are more or less the same conditions: By using
a homeomorphism $[0,infty)simeq [0,1)$, the existence of such a
function is (by the convergence condition) equivalent to the ability
to add a value at $1$ to extend it to a function $[0,1]tomathbb R$.



Weird, complicated attempt 1



The first observation is that for every $yin im fsetminus0$,
convergence guarantees $f^-1$ to be bounded, and thus compact. By
being countably infinite, it has to have one accumulation point.
Let's call $xin mathbb R$ “horizontal accumulation point” if it is
an accumulation point of $f^-1(f(x))$ and refer to the set of these
as $mathcal H(f)$. Note that we have to have uncountably many of
them, because $im f$ must be connected and cannot be just 0 (else
$f^-1(0)$ would be uncountable).



Looking at how they lie in the graph of $f$, by considering some still
uncountable subsets who are in a bounded subset in the graph
(e.g. restricting attention to some $y>epsilon$), we can conclude
that there must be uncountably many accumulation points in the graph
of $fvert_mathcal H(f)$.



I then hoped to arrive at some contradiction like that countability
would require them to be isolated, but the only thing I came up with
was the following IMO quite interesting example:



(You may also just look at https://www.desmos.com/calculator/kq0cq1irmc)



Construct $fcolon [0,1]to mathbb R$ by partitioning
$[0,1]=bigcup_n=1^infty [2^-n,2^-n+1)$ on which we consider
$f_2^-n,2^-n$ defined as follows:



beginalign*
&f_C,wcolon [C,C+w]tomathbb R,\
&f_C,w(x):=
begincases
C+left(x-Cright) sin^2left(frac2pi wx-Cright),
&xin [C,C+w/2] \
-frac4Cwcdotleft(x-C-fracw2right)+C,
&xin [C+w/2,C+3w/4] \
frac4left(C+wright)wcdotleft(x-C-frac3w4right) ,
&xin [C+3w/4,C+w] \
endcases
endalign*



It is a well-defined, continuous function taking the values



beginalign*
f_C,w(C) = f_C,w(C+w/2) &= C\
f_C,w(C+3w/4) &= 0\
f_C,w(C+w) &= C+w.
endalign*



Notably, a subset of $f_C,w^-1(C)$ is
$Ccup leftC+frac2wn mid ninmathbb N_geq 4right$,
making $C$ a horizontal limit point.



Although this is not countably infinite in every horizontal fibre,
it is an example of a function with a non-isolated horizontal accumulation point (0) where the value occurs countable infinitely often.



Weird, complicated attempt 2



I tried to weaken what is required by convergence to see what happens
„before“ everything lands in the $epsilon$-Strip. Convergence in
this context means the nonemptiness of



$$
mathcal C_epsilon := lefthat xmid f((hat x,infty))subseteq
pmeright,
$$



which is just the region where the $epsilon$-convergence-criterion
holds. It is obviously upper directed. For all values excluded by
this strip, namely $im f setminus pme$, the countable cardinality
must have its cause somewhere in $[0, mathcal C_epsilon]$. This
suggests considering



$$
mathcal C_epsilon^n := left f^-1(y)cap (hat x, infty) right
$$



This just selects all points $hat x$ for which
$fvert_(hat x,infty)$ maps everything into $pme$ with the
exception that each image point not in said interval may be reached at
most $n$ times. We can easily observe
$mathcal C_epsilon = mathcal C_epsilon^0$, and that
$mathcal C_epsilon^n$ grows when making n larger.



However, I'm not sure what to look at after this, and especially, I'm
not sure how the demand for $0$ to be in the domain may come into
play.




Is there any (comparatively) simple, straightforward way to prove this?







share|cite|improve this question


























    up vote
    2
    down vote

    favorite












    $DeclareMathOperatorimImnewcommandpme(-epsilon,epsilon)newcommandpmec[-epsilon,epsilon]$This is oddly specific, but in an attempt to analyze a special case of this unanswered question, this came about.



    I am interested in whether a
    continuous function with the following properties exists:



    • $fcolon[0,infty)tomathbb R$

    • $f$ converges zo zero, i.e. $forall epsilon>0exists xin
      [0,infty): f[x,infty)subseteq (-epsilon,epsilon)$

    • $f$ has „countably infinite multiplicity in a neighborhood of 0“, by
      which I mean that for for every $y$ in the image and some
      neighborhood of 0, $f^-1(y)simeq mathbb N$

    Intuition



    My intuition says „no“, because the only function I can imagine that
    has this multiplicity property is e.g. $sin x$, but that „diverges“
    too heavily. If we fix that by „pressing it down“, like in
    $x^-1sin x$, the only element of the image with countably infinite
    multiplicity is $y=0$.



    Note that it is vital to include $0$ in the domain, because else we
    could use glue the left part of the topologists sine curve $sin
    (x^-1)$ to the right part of $sin x/x$, and get a desired function.



    To be perfectly honest, the convergence to the right and the inclusion
    of the $0$ to the left are more or less the same conditions: By using
    a homeomorphism $[0,infty)simeq [0,1)$, the existence of such a
    function is (by the convergence condition) equivalent to the ability
    to add a value at $1$ to extend it to a function $[0,1]tomathbb R$.



    Weird, complicated attempt 1



    The first observation is that for every $yin im fsetminus0$,
    convergence guarantees $f^-1$ to be bounded, and thus compact. By
    being countably infinite, it has to have one accumulation point.
    Let's call $xin mathbb R$ “horizontal accumulation point” if it is
    an accumulation point of $f^-1(f(x))$ and refer to the set of these
    as $mathcal H(f)$. Note that we have to have uncountably many of
    them, because $im f$ must be connected and cannot be just 0 (else
    $f^-1(0)$ would be uncountable).



    Looking at how they lie in the graph of $f$, by considering some still
    uncountable subsets who are in a bounded subset in the graph
    (e.g. restricting attention to some $y>epsilon$), we can conclude
    that there must be uncountably many accumulation points in the graph
    of $fvert_mathcal H(f)$.



    I then hoped to arrive at some contradiction like that countability
    would require them to be isolated, but the only thing I came up with
    was the following IMO quite interesting example:



    (You may also just look at https://www.desmos.com/calculator/kq0cq1irmc)



    Construct $fcolon [0,1]to mathbb R$ by partitioning
    $[0,1]=bigcup_n=1^infty [2^-n,2^-n+1)$ on which we consider
    $f_2^-n,2^-n$ defined as follows:



    beginalign*
    &f_C,wcolon [C,C+w]tomathbb R,\
    &f_C,w(x):=
    begincases
    C+left(x-Cright) sin^2left(frac2pi wx-Cright),
    &xin [C,C+w/2] \
    -frac4Cwcdotleft(x-C-fracw2right)+C,
    &xin [C+w/2,C+3w/4] \
    frac4left(C+wright)wcdotleft(x-C-frac3w4right) ,
    &xin [C+3w/4,C+w] \
    endcases
    endalign*



    It is a well-defined, continuous function taking the values



    beginalign*
    f_C,w(C) = f_C,w(C+w/2) &= C\
    f_C,w(C+3w/4) &= 0\
    f_C,w(C+w) &= C+w.
    endalign*



    Notably, a subset of $f_C,w^-1(C)$ is
    $Ccup leftC+frac2wn mid ninmathbb N_geq 4right$,
    making $C$ a horizontal limit point.



    Although this is not countably infinite in every horizontal fibre,
    it is an example of a function with a non-isolated horizontal accumulation point (0) where the value occurs countable infinitely often.



    Weird, complicated attempt 2



    I tried to weaken what is required by convergence to see what happens
    „before“ everything lands in the $epsilon$-Strip. Convergence in
    this context means the nonemptiness of



    $$
    mathcal C_epsilon := lefthat xmid f((hat x,infty))subseteq
    pmeright,
    $$



    which is just the region where the $epsilon$-convergence-criterion
    holds. It is obviously upper directed. For all values excluded by
    this strip, namely $im f setminus pme$, the countable cardinality
    must have its cause somewhere in $[0, mathcal C_epsilon]$. This
    suggests considering



    $$
    mathcal C_epsilon^n := left f^-1(y)cap (hat x, infty) right
    $$



    This just selects all points $hat x$ for which
    $fvert_(hat x,infty)$ maps everything into $pme$ with the
    exception that each image point not in said interval may be reached at
    most $n$ times. We can easily observe
    $mathcal C_epsilon = mathcal C_epsilon^0$, and that
    $mathcal C_epsilon^n$ grows when making n larger.



    However, I'm not sure what to look at after this, and especially, I'm
    not sure how the demand for $0$ to be in the domain may come into
    play.




    Is there any (comparatively) simple, straightforward way to prove this?







    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite











      $DeclareMathOperatorimImnewcommandpme(-epsilon,epsilon)newcommandpmec[-epsilon,epsilon]$This is oddly specific, but in an attempt to analyze a special case of this unanswered question, this came about.



      I am interested in whether a
      continuous function with the following properties exists:



      • $fcolon[0,infty)tomathbb R$

      • $f$ converges zo zero, i.e. $forall epsilon>0exists xin
        [0,infty): f[x,infty)subseteq (-epsilon,epsilon)$

      • $f$ has „countably infinite multiplicity in a neighborhood of 0“, by
        which I mean that for for every $y$ in the image and some
        neighborhood of 0, $f^-1(y)simeq mathbb N$

      Intuition



      My intuition says „no“, because the only function I can imagine that
      has this multiplicity property is e.g. $sin x$, but that „diverges“
      too heavily. If we fix that by „pressing it down“, like in
      $x^-1sin x$, the only element of the image with countably infinite
      multiplicity is $y=0$.



      Note that it is vital to include $0$ in the domain, because else we
      could use glue the left part of the topologists sine curve $sin
      (x^-1)$ to the right part of $sin x/x$, and get a desired function.



      To be perfectly honest, the convergence to the right and the inclusion
      of the $0$ to the left are more or less the same conditions: By using
      a homeomorphism $[0,infty)simeq [0,1)$, the existence of such a
      function is (by the convergence condition) equivalent to the ability
      to add a value at $1$ to extend it to a function $[0,1]tomathbb R$.



      Weird, complicated attempt 1



      The first observation is that for every $yin im fsetminus0$,
      convergence guarantees $f^-1$ to be bounded, and thus compact. By
      being countably infinite, it has to have one accumulation point.
      Let's call $xin mathbb R$ “horizontal accumulation point” if it is
      an accumulation point of $f^-1(f(x))$ and refer to the set of these
      as $mathcal H(f)$. Note that we have to have uncountably many of
      them, because $im f$ must be connected and cannot be just 0 (else
      $f^-1(0)$ would be uncountable).



      Looking at how they lie in the graph of $f$, by considering some still
      uncountable subsets who are in a bounded subset in the graph
      (e.g. restricting attention to some $y>epsilon$), we can conclude
      that there must be uncountably many accumulation points in the graph
      of $fvert_mathcal H(f)$.



      I then hoped to arrive at some contradiction like that countability
      would require them to be isolated, but the only thing I came up with
      was the following IMO quite interesting example:



      (You may also just look at https://www.desmos.com/calculator/kq0cq1irmc)



      Construct $fcolon [0,1]to mathbb R$ by partitioning
      $[0,1]=bigcup_n=1^infty [2^-n,2^-n+1)$ on which we consider
      $f_2^-n,2^-n$ defined as follows:



      beginalign*
      &f_C,wcolon [C,C+w]tomathbb R,\
      &f_C,w(x):=
      begincases
      C+left(x-Cright) sin^2left(frac2pi wx-Cright),
      &xin [C,C+w/2] \
      -frac4Cwcdotleft(x-C-fracw2right)+C,
      &xin [C+w/2,C+3w/4] \
      frac4left(C+wright)wcdotleft(x-C-frac3w4right) ,
      &xin [C+3w/4,C+w] \
      endcases
      endalign*



      It is a well-defined, continuous function taking the values



      beginalign*
      f_C,w(C) = f_C,w(C+w/2) &= C\
      f_C,w(C+3w/4) &= 0\
      f_C,w(C+w) &= C+w.
      endalign*



      Notably, a subset of $f_C,w^-1(C)$ is
      $Ccup leftC+frac2wn mid ninmathbb N_geq 4right$,
      making $C$ a horizontal limit point.



      Although this is not countably infinite in every horizontal fibre,
      it is an example of a function with a non-isolated horizontal accumulation point (0) where the value occurs countable infinitely often.



      Weird, complicated attempt 2



      I tried to weaken what is required by convergence to see what happens
      „before“ everything lands in the $epsilon$-Strip. Convergence in
      this context means the nonemptiness of



      $$
      mathcal C_epsilon := lefthat xmid f((hat x,infty))subseteq
      pmeright,
      $$



      which is just the region where the $epsilon$-convergence-criterion
      holds. It is obviously upper directed. For all values excluded by
      this strip, namely $im f setminus pme$, the countable cardinality
      must have its cause somewhere in $[0, mathcal C_epsilon]$. This
      suggests considering



      $$
      mathcal C_epsilon^n := left f^-1(y)cap (hat x, infty) right
      $$



      This just selects all points $hat x$ for which
      $fvert_(hat x,infty)$ maps everything into $pme$ with the
      exception that each image point not in said interval may be reached at
      most $n$ times. We can easily observe
      $mathcal C_epsilon = mathcal C_epsilon^0$, and that
      $mathcal C_epsilon^n$ grows when making n larger.



      However, I'm not sure what to look at after this, and especially, I'm
      not sure how the demand for $0$ to be in the domain may come into
      play.




      Is there any (comparatively) simple, straightforward way to prove this?







      share|cite|improve this question














      $DeclareMathOperatorimImnewcommandpme(-epsilon,epsilon)newcommandpmec[-epsilon,epsilon]$This is oddly specific, but in an attempt to analyze a special case of this unanswered question, this came about.



      I am interested in whether a
      continuous function with the following properties exists:



      • $fcolon[0,infty)tomathbb R$

      • $f$ converges zo zero, i.e. $forall epsilon>0exists xin
        [0,infty): f[x,infty)subseteq (-epsilon,epsilon)$

      • $f$ has „countably infinite multiplicity in a neighborhood of 0“, by
        which I mean that for for every $y$ in the image and some
        neighborhood of 0, $f^-1(y)simeq mathbb N$

      Intuition



      My intuition says „no“, because the only function I can imagine that
      has this multiplicity property is e.g. $sin x$, but that „diverges“
      too heavily. If we fix that by „pressing it down“, like in
      $x^-1sin x$, the only element of the image with countably infinite
      multiplicity is $y=0$.



      Note that it is vital to include $0$ in the domain, because else we
      could use glue the left part of the topologists sine curve $sin
      (x^-1)$ to the right part of $sin x/x$, and get a desired function.



      To be perfectly honest, the convergence to the right and the inclusion
      of the $0$ to the left are more or less the same conditions: By using
      a homeomorphism $[0,infty)simeq [0,1)$, the existence of such a
      function is (by the convergence condition) equivalent to the ability
      to add a value at $1$ to extend it to a function $[0,1]tomathbb R$.



      Weird, complicated attempt 1



      The first observation is that for every $yin im fsetminus0$,
      convergence guarantees $f^-1$ to be bounded, and thus compact. By
      being countably infinite, it has to have one accumulation point.
      Let's call $xin mathbb R$ “horizontal accumulation point” if it is
      an accumulation point of $f^-1(f(x))$ and refer to the set of these
      as $mathcal H(f)$. Note that we have to have uncountably many of
      them, because $im f$ must be connected and cannot be just 0 (else
      $f^-1(0)$ would be uncountable).



      Looking at how they lie in the graph of $f$, by considering some still
      uncountable subsets who are in a bounded subset in the graph
      (e.g. restricting attention to some $y>epsilon$), we can conclude
      that there must be uncountably many accumulation points in the graph
      of $fvert_mathcal H(f)$.



      I then hoped to arrive at some contradiction like that countability
      would require them to be isolated, but the only thing I came up with
      was the following IMO quite interesting example:



      (You may also just look at https://www.desmos.com/calculator/kq0cq1irmc)



      Construct $fcolon [0,1]to mathbb R$ by partitioning
      $[0,1]=bigcup_n=1^infty [2^-n,2^-n+1)$ on which we consider
      $f_2^-n,2^-n$ defined as follows:



      beginalign*
      &f_C,wcolon [C,C+w]tomathbb R,\
      &f_C,w(x):=
      begincases
      C+left(x-Cright) sin^2left(frac2pi wx-Cright),
      &xin [C,C+w/2] \
      -frac4Cwcdotleft(x-C-fracw2right)+C,
      &xin [C+w/2,C+3w/4] \
      frac4left(C+wright)wcdotleft(x-C-frac3w4right) ,
      &xin [C+3w/4,C+w] \
      endcases
      endalign*



      It is a well-defined, continuous function taking the values



      beginalign*
      f_C,w(C) = f_C,w(C+w/2) &= C\
      f_C,w(C+3w/4) &= 0\
      f_C,w(C+w) &= C+w.
      endalign*



      Notably, a subset of $f_C,w^-1(C)$ is
      $Ccup leftC+frac2wn mid ninmathbb N_geq 4right$,
      making $C$ a horizontal limit point.



      Although this is not countably infinite in every horizontal fibre,
      it is an example of a function with a non-isolated horizontal accumulation point (0) where the value occurs countable infinitely often.



      Weird, complicated attempt 2



      I tried to weaken what is required by convergence to see what happens
      „before“ everything lands in the $epsilon$-Strip. Convergence in
      this context means the nonemptiness of



      $$
      mathcal C_epsilon := lefthat xmid f((hat x,infty))subseteq
      pmeright,
      $$



      which is just the region where the $epsilon$-convergence-criterion
      holds. It is obviously upper directed. For all values excluded by
      this strip, namely $im f setminus pme$, the countable cardinality
      must have its cause somewhere in $[0, mathcal C_epsilon]$. This
      suggests considering



      $$
      mathcal C_epsilon^n := left f^-1(y)cap (hat x, infty) right
      $$



      This just selects all points $hat x$ for which
      $fvert_(hat x,infty)$ maps everything into $pme$ with the
      exception that each image point not in said interval may be reached at
      most $n$ times. We can easily observe
      $mathcal C_epsilon = mathcal C_epsilon^0$, and that
      $mathcal C_epsilon^n$ grows when making n larger.



      However, I'm not sure what to look at after this, and especially, I'm
      not sure how the demand for $0$ to be in the domain may come into
      play.




      Is there any (comparatively) simple, straightforward way to prove this?









      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Aug 24 at 10:19

























      asked Aug 24 at 9:58









      Luke

      1,0091022




      1,0091022

























          active

          oldest

          votes











          Your Answer




          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
          return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
          StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
          StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
          );
          );
          , "mathjax-editing");

          StackExchange.ready(function()
          var channelOptions =
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "69"
          ;
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
          createEditor();
          );

          else
          createEditor();

          );

          function createEditor()
          StackExchange.prepareEditor(
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          convertImagesToLinks: true,
          noModals: false,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: 10,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          );



          );













           

          draft saved


          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2892958%2fis-there-f-colon0-infty-to-mathbb-r-cont-converging-to-0-such-that-f-1%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest



































          active

          oldest

          votes













          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes















           

          draft saved


          draft discarded















































           


          draft saved


          draft discarded














          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2892958%2fis-there-f-colon0-infty-to-mathbb-r-cont-converging-to-0-such-that-f-1%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest













































































          這個網誌中的熱門文章

          How to combine Bézier curves to a surface?

          Mutual Information Always Non-negative

          Why am i infinitely getting the same tweet with the Twitter Search API?