Meaning of $Bbb Q[√2]$

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I know that $Bbb Q[x]$ is the set of all polynomials in $x$ with rational coefficients. And that $Bbb Q[√2]$ is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $√2$. But the other day our professor denoted by $Bbb Q[π]$ the set of all polynomials in $π$ with rational coefficients. So what does $Bbb Q[√2]$ mean? I see that either definition for $Bbb Q[√2]$ leads to the same set $a+b√2:a,bin Bbb Q$. But the same cannot be said for $Bbb Q[π]$. Could someone explain it to me?







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    up vote
    0
    down vote

    favorite












    I know that $Bbb Q[x]$ is the set of all polynomials in $x$ with rational coefficients. And that $Bbb Q[√2]$ is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $√2$. But the other day our professor denoted by $Bbb Q[π]$ the set of all polynomials in $π$ with rational coefficients. So what does $Bbb Q[√2]$ mean? I see that either definition for $Bbb Q[√2]$ leads to the same set $a+b√2:a,bin Bbb Q$. But the same cannot be said for $Bbb Q[π]$. Could someone explain it to me?







    share|cite|improve this question






















      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite











      I know that $Bbb Q[x]$ is the set of all polynomials in $x$ with rational coefficients. And that $Bbb Q[√2]$ is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $√2$. But the other day our professor denoted by $Bbb Q[π]$ the set of all polynomials in $π$ with rational coefficients. So what does $Bbb Q[√2]$ mean? I see that either definition for $Bbb Q[√2]$ leads to the same set $a+b√2:a,bin Bbb Q$. But the same cannot be said for $Bbb Q[π]$. Could someone explain it to me?







      share|cite|improve this question












      I know that $Bbb Q[x]$ is the set of all polynomials in $x$ with rational coefficients. And that $Bbb Q[√2]$ is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $√2$. But the other day our professor denoted by $Bbb Q[π]$ the set of all polynomials in $π$ with rational coefficients. So what does $Bbb Q[√2]$ mean? I see that either definition for $Bbb Q[√2]$ leads to the same set $a+b√2:a,bin Bbb Q$. But the same cannot be said for $Bbb Q[π]$. Could someone explain it to me?









      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Aug 15 at 7:33









      Hrit Roy

      837113




      837113




















          4 Answers
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          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted










          You have been somewhat lied to. $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ is not, a priori, the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $sqrt 2$. Its definition is the ring of polynomials in the variable $sqrt 2$ (which has the property that $sqrt 2^2 = 2$) with rational coefficients. It happens to be a field, but that's coincidental. The field is denoted as $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.



          So $Bbb Q[x]$ and $Bbb Q[pi]$ are rings of polynomials, while $Bbb Q(x)$ and $Bbb Q(pi)$ are their respective fields of fractions, i.e. the fields of rational functions with rational coefficients.






          share|cite|improve this answer






















          • Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)≠0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
            – Hrit Roy
            Aug 15 at 7:51







          • 1




            @HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
            – Arthur
            Aug 15 at 7:54











          • Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $√2$.
            – Hrit Roy
            Aug 15 at 7:59

















          up vote
          5
          down vote













          Let $alpha$ be a real number.



          $mathbbQ[alpha]$ is the polynomial ring genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ[alpha]=f(alpha):finmathbbQ[X]$



          On the other hand,



          $mathbbQ(alpha)$ is the field genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ(alpha)=f(alpha):finmathbbQ(X)$



          (The difference is that $mathbbQ[X]$ is the polynomial ring and $mathbbQ(X)$ is the field of rational functions so you can think of it as $mathbbQ(X)=FracmathbbQ[X]$



          The point is that if $alpha$ is algebraic $mathbbQ[alpha]=mathbbQ(alpha)$. So in your case since, $sqrt2$ is algebraic, it is equivalent to think of it as the ring genereated by $sqrt2$ or the field genereated by $sqrt2$.



          However, if $alpha$ is not algebraic (i.e. $pi$ is not a solution to a polynomial with rational coefficients), then $mathbbQ[alpha]subsetneqmathbbQ(alpha)$






          share|cite|improve this answer




















          • While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
            – Hrit Roy
            Aug 15 at 8:01










          • $mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
            – daruma
            Aug 15 at 9:20











          • So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
            – Hrit Roy
            Aug 15 at 9:31











          • One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
            – Hrit Roy
            Aug 15 at 9:35






          • 1




            To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
            – daruma
            Aug 15 at 9:39

















          up vote
          2
          down vote













          The difference between the two is due to the fact that $sqrt2$ is an algebraic number and $pi$ is a trascendental number.



          Indeed $mathbbQ[sqrt2]$ is also the ring of polynomials in $sqrt2$ with rational coefficients, but of course degrees $2$ and higher "collapse" because for example $sqrt2^3=2sqrt2$ which is so to say of degree $1$. For $pi$ this is never the case.






          share|cite|improve this answer



























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            Usually, $K(alpha)$ denotes the FIELD generated by $K$ and $alpha$, and $K[alpha]$ denotes the RING generated by $K$ and $alpha$.



            If $Kleq L$ is a field extension and $alphain L$ is algebraic over $K$, then $K[alpha]= K(alpha)$.
            However, if $alpha$ is transcendental. then $K[alpha]neq K(alpha)$.
            The former is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every polynomial over $K$, the latter is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every rational function over $K$.






            share|cite|improve this answer




















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              4 Answers
              4






              active

              oldest

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              4 Answers
              4






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes








              up vote
              5
              down vote



              accepted










              You have been somewhat lied to. $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ is not, a priori, the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $sqrt 2$. Its definition is the ring of polynomials in the variable $sqrt 2$ (which has the property that $sqrt 2^2 = 2$) with rational coefficients. It happens to be a field, but that's coincidental. The field is denoted as $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.



              So $Bbb Q[x]$ and $Bbb Q[pi]$ are rings of polynomials, while $Bbb Q(x)$ and $Bbb Q(pi)$ are their respective fields of fractions, i.e. the fields of rational functions with rational coefficients.






              share|cite|improve this answer






















              • Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)≠0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 7:51







              • 1




                @HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
                – Arthur
                Aug 15 at 7:54











              • Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $√2$.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 7:59














              up vote
              5
              down vote



              accepted










              You have been somewhat lied to. $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ is not, a priori, the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $sqrt 2$. Its definition is the ring of polynomials in the variable $sqrt 2$ (which has the property that $sqrt 2^2 = 2$) with rational coefficients. It happens to be a field, but that's coincidental. The field is denoted as $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.



              So $Bbb Q[x]$ and $Bbb Q[pi]$ are rings of polynomials, while $Bbb Q(x)$ and $Bbb Q(pi)$ are their respective fields of fractions, i.e. the fields of rational functions with rational coefficients.






              share|cite|improve this answer






















              • Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)≠0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 7:51







              • 1




                @HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
                – Arthur
                Aug 15 at 7:54











              • Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $√2$.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 7:59












              up vote
              5
              down vote



              accepted







              up vote
              5
              down vote



              accepted






              You have been somewhat lied to. $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ is not, a priori, the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $sqrt 2$. Its definition is the ring of polynomials in the variable $sqrt 2$ (which has the property that $sqrt 2^2 = 2$) with rational coefficients. It happens to be a field, but that's coincidental. The field is denoted as $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.



              So $Bbb Q[x]$ and $Bbb Q[pi]$ are rings of polynomials, while $Bbb Q(x)$ and $Bbb Q(pi)$ are their respective fields of fractions, i.e. the fields of rational functions with rational coefficients.






              share|cite|improve this answer














              You have been somewhat lied to. $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ is not, a priori, the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $sqrt 2$. Its definition is the ring of polynomials in the variable $sqrt 2$ (which has the property that $sqrt 2^2 = 2$) with rational coefficients. It happens to be a field, but that's coincidental. The field is denoted as $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.



              So $Bbb Q[x]$ and $Bbb Q[pi]$ are rings of polynomials, while $Bbb Q(x)$ and $Bbb Q(pi)$ are their respective fields of fractions, i.e. the fields of rational functions with rational coefficients.







              share|cite|improve this answer














              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited Aug 15 at 7:52

























              answered Aug 15 at 7:45









              Arthur

              99.8k793175




              99.8k793175











              • Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)≠0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 7:51







              • 1




                @HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
                – Arthur
                Aug 15 at 7:54











              • Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $√2$.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 7:59
















              • Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)≠0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 7:51







              • 1




                @HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
                – Arthur
                Aug 15 at 7:54











              • Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $√2$.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 7:59















              Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)≠0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
              – Hrit Roy
              Aug 15 at 7:51





              Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)≠0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
              – Hrit Roy
              Aug 15 at 7:51





              1




              1




              @HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
              – Arthur
              Aug 15 at 7:54





              @HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
              – Arthur
              Aug 15 at 7:54













              Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $√2$.
              – Hrit Roy
              Aug 15 at 7:59




              Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $√2$.
              – Hrit Roy
              Aug 15 at 7:59










              up vote
              5
              down vote













              Let $alpha$ be a real number.



              $mathbbQ[alpha]$ is the polynomial ring genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ[alpha]=f(alpha):finmathbbQ[X]$



              On the other hand,



              $mathbbQ(alpha)$ is the field genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ(alpha)=f(alpha):finmathbbQ(X)$



              (The difference is that $mathbbQ[X]$ is the polynomial ring and $mathbbQ(X)$ is the field of rational functions so you can think of it as $mathbbQ(X)=FracmathbbQ[X]$



              The point is that if $alpha$ is algebraic $mathbbQ[alpha]=mathbbQ(alpha)$. So in your case since, $sqrt2$ is algebraic, it is equivalent to think of it as the ring genereated by $sqrt2$ or the field genereated by $sqrt2$.



              However, if $alpha$ is not algebraic (i.e. $pi$ is not a solution to a polynomial with rational coefficients), then $mathbbQ[alpha]subsetneqmathbbQ(alpha)$






              share|cite|improve this answer




















              • While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 8:01










              • $mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
                – daruma
                Aug 15 at 9:20











              • So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 9:31











              • One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 9:35






              • 1




                To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
                – daruma
                Aug 15 at 9:39














              up vote
              5
              down vote













              Let $alpha$ be a real number.



              $mathbbQ[alpha]$ is the polynomial ring genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ[alpha]=f(alpha):finmathbbQ[X]$



              On the other hand,



              $mathbbQ(alpha)$ is the field genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ(alpha)=f(alpha):finmathbbQ(X)$



              (The difference is that $mathbbQ[X]$ is the polynomial ring and $mathbbQ(X)$ is the field of rational functions so you can think of it as $mathbbQ(X)=FracmathbbQ[X]$



              The point is that if $alpha$ is algebraic $mathbbQ[alpha]=mathbbQ(alpha)$. So in your case since, $sqrt2$ is algebraic, it is equivalent to think of it as the ring genereated by $sqrt2$ or the field genereated by $sqrt2$.



              However, if $alpha$ is not algebraic (i.e. $pi$ is not a solution to a polynomial with rational coefficients), then $mathbbQ[alpha]subsetneqmathbbQ(alpha)$






              share|cite|improve this answer




















              • While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 8:01










              • $mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
                – daruma
                Aug 15 at 9:20











              • So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 9:31











              • One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 9:35






              • 1




                To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
                – daruma
                Aug 15 at 9:39












              up vote
              5
              down vote










              up vote
              5
              down vote









              Let $alpha$ be a real number.



              $mathbbQ[alpha]$ is the polynomial ring genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ[alpha]=f(alpha):finmathbbQ[X]$



              On the other hand,



              $mathbbQ(alpha)$ is the field genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ(alpha)=f(alpha):finmathbbQ(X)$



              (The difference is that $mathbbQ[X]$ is the polynomial ring and $mathbbQ(X)$ is the field of rational functions so you can think of it as $mathbbQ(X)=FracmathbbQ[X]$



              The point is that if $alpha$ is algebraic $mathbbQ[alpha]=mathbbQ(alpha)$. So in your case since, $sqrt2$ is algebraic, it is equivalent to think of it as the ring genereated by $sqrt2$ or the field genereated by $sqrt2$.



              However, if $alpha$ is not algebraic (i.e. $pi$ is not a solution to a polynomial with rational coefficients), then $mathbbQ[alpha]subsetneqmathbbQ(alpha)$






              share|cite|improve this answer












              Let $alpha$ be a real number.



              $mathbbQ[alpha]$ is the polynomial ring genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ[alpha]=f(alpha):finmathbbQ[X]$



              On the other hand,



              $mathbbQ(alpha)$ is the field genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ(alpha)=f(alpha):finmathbbQ(X)$



              (The difference is that $mathbbQ[X]$ is the polynomial ring and $mathbbQ(X)$ is the field of rational functions so you can think of it as $mathbbQ(X)=FracmathbbQ[X]$



              The point is that if $alpha$ is algebraic $mathbbQ[alpha]=mathbbQ(alpha)$. So in your case since, $sqrt2$ is algebraic, it is equivalent to think of it as the ring genereated by $sqrt2$ or the field genereated by $sqrt2$.



              However, if $alpha$ is not algebraic (i.e. $pi$ is not a solution to a polynomial with rational coefficients), then $mathbbQ[alpha]subsetneqmathbbQ(alpha)$







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Aug 15 at 7:48









              daruma

              905612




              905612











              • While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 8:01










              • $mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
                – daruma
                Aug 15 at 9:20











              • So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 9:31











              • One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 9:35






              • 1




                To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
                – daruma
                Aug 15 at 9:39
















              • While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 8:01










              • $mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
                – daruma
                Aug 15 at 9:20











              • So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 9:31











              • One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
                – Hrit Roy
                Aug 15 at 9:35






              • 1




                To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
                – daruma
                Aug 15 at 9:39















              While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
              – Hrit Roy
              Aug 15 at 8:01




              While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
              – Hrit Roy
              Aug 15 at 8:01












              $mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
              – daruma
              Aug 15 at 9:20





              $mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
              – daruma
              Aug 15 at 9:20













              So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
              – Hrit Roy
              Aug 15 at 9:31





              So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
              – Hrit Roy
              Aug 15 at 9:31













              One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
              – Hrit Roy
              Aug 15 at 9:35




              One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
              – Hrit Roy
              Aug 15 at 9:35




              1




              1




              To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
              – daruma
              Aug 15 at 9:39




              To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
              – daruma
              Aug 15 at 9:39










              up vote
              2
              down vote













              The difference between the two is due to the fact that $sqrt2$ is an algebraic number and $pi$ is a trascendental number.



              Indeed $mathbbQ[sqrt2]$ is also the ring of polynomials in $sqrt2$ with rational coefficients, but of course degrees $2$ and higher "collapse" because for example $sqrt2^3=2sqrt2$ which is so to say of degree $1$. For $pi$ this is never the case.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                2
                down vote













                The difference between the two is due to the fact that $sqrt2$ is an algebraic number and $pi$ is a trascendental number.



                Indeed $mathbbQ[sqrt2]$ is also the ring of polynomials in $sqrt2$ with rational coefficients, but of course degrees $2$ and higher "collapse" because for example $sqrt2^3=2sqrt2$ which is so to say of degree $1$. For $pi$ this is never the case.






                share|cite|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote









                  The difference between the two is due to the fact that $sqrt2$ is an algebraic number and $pi$ is a trascendental number.



                  Indeed $mathbbQ[sqrt2]$ is also the ring of polynomials in $sqrt2$ with rational coefficients, but of course degrees $2$ and higher "collapse" because for example $sqrt2^3=2sqrt2$ which is so to say of degree $1$. For $pi$ this is never the case.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  The difference between the two is due to the fact that $sqrt2$ is an algebraic number and $pi$ is a trascendental number.



                  Indeed $mathbbQ[sqrt2]$ is also the ring of polynomials in $sqrt2$ with rational coefficients, but of course degrees $2$ and higher "collapse" because for example $sqrt2^3=2sqrt2$ which is so to say of degree $1$. For $pi$ this is never the case.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Aug 15 at 7:46









                  b00n heT

                  8,08411430




                  8,08411430




















                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote













                      Usually, $K(alpha)$ denotes the FIELD generated by $K$ and $alpha$, and $K[alpha]$ denotes the RING generated by $K$ and $alpha$.



                      If $Kleq L$ is a field extension and $alphain L$ is algebraic over $K$, then $K[alpha]= K(alpha)$.
                      However, if $alpha$ is transcendental. then $K[alpha]neq K(alpha)$.
                      The former is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every polynomial over $K$, the latter is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every rational function over $K$.






                      share|cite|improve this answer
























                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote













                        Usually, $K(alpha)$ denotes the FIELD generated by $K$ and $alpha$, and $K[alpha]$ denotes the RING generated by $K$ and $alpha$.



                        If $Kleq L$ is a field extension and $alphain L$ is algebraic over $K$, then $K[alpha]= K(alpha)$.
                        However, if $alpha$ is transcendental. then $K[alpha]neq K(alpha)$.
                        The former is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every polynomial over $K$, the latter is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every rational function over $K$.






                        share|cite|improve this answer






















                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote










                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote









                          Usually, $K(alpha)$ denotes the FIELD generated by $K$ and $alpha$, and $K[alpha]$ denotes the RING generated by $K$ and $alpha$.



                          If $Kleq L$ is a field extension and $alphain L$ is algebraic over $K$, then $K[alpha]= K(alpha)$.
                          However, if $alpha$ is transcendental. then $K[alpha]neq K(alpha)$.
                          The former is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every polynomial over $K$, the latter is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every rational function over $K$.






                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          Usually, $K(alpha)$ denotes the FIELD generated by $K$ and $alpha$, and $K[alpha]$ denotes the RING generated by $K$ and $alpha$.



                          If $Kleq L$ is a field extension and $alphain L$ is algebraic over $K$, then $K[alpha]= K(alpha)$.
                          However, if $alpha$ is transcendental. then $K[alpha]neq K(alpha)$.
                          The former is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every polynomial over $K$, the latter is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every rational function over $K$.







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered Aug 15 at 7:46









                          A. Pongrácz

                          3,797625




                          3,797625






















                               

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