Meaning of $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$

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I know that $Bbb Q[x]$ is the set of all polynomials in $x$ with rational coefficients. And that $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $âÂÂ2$. But the other day our professor denoted by $Bbb Q[ÃÂ]$ the set of all polynomials in $ÃÂ$ with rational coefficients. So what does $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ mean? I see that either definition for $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ leads to the same set $a+bâÂÂ2:a,bin Bbb Q$. But the same cannot be said for $Bbb Q[ÃÂ]$. Could someone explain it to me?
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up vote
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I know that $Bbb Q[x]$ is the set of all polynomials in $x$ with rational coefficients. And that $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $âÂÂ2$. But the other day our professor denoted by $Bbb Q[ÃÂ]$ the set of all polynomials in $ÃÂ$ with rational coefficients. So what does $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ mean? I see that either definition for $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ leads to the same set $a+bâÂÂ2:a,bin Bbb Q$. But the same cannot be said for $Bbb Q[ÃÂ]$. Could someone explain it to me?
notation
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
I know that $Bbb Q[x]$ is the set of all polynomials in $x$ with rational coefficients. And that $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $âÂÂ2$. But the other day our professor denoted by $Bbb Q[ÃÂ]$ the set of all polynomials in $ÃÂ$ with rational coefficients. So what does $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ mean? I see that either definition for $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ leads to the same set $a+bâÂÂ2:a,bin Bbb Q$. But the same cannot be said for $Bbb Q[ÃÂ]$. Could someone explain it to me?
notation
I know that $Bbb Q[x]$ is the set of all polynomials in $x$ with rational coefficients. And that $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $âÂÂ2$. But the other day our professor denoted by $Bbb Q[ÃÂ]$ the set of all polynomials in $ÃÂ$ with rational coefficients. So what does $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ mean? I see that either definition for $Bbb Q[âÂÂ2]$ leads to the same set $a+bâÂÂ2:a,bin Bbb Q$. But the same cannot be said for $Bbb Q[ÃÂ]$. Could someone explain it to me?
notation
asked Aug 15 at 7:33
Hrit Roy
837113
837113
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You have been somewhat lied to. $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ is not, a priori, the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $sqrt 2$. Its definition is the ring of polynomials in the variable $sqrt 2$ (which has the property that $sqrt 2^2 = 2$) with rational coefficients. It happens to be a field, but that's coincidental. The field is denoted as $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
So $Bbb Q[x]$ and $Bbb Q[pi]$ are rings of polynomials, while $Bbb Q(x)$ and $Bbb Q(pi)$ are their respective fields of fractions, i.e. the fields of rational functions with rational coefficients.
Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)â 0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:51
1
@HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
â Arthur
Aug 15 at 7:54
Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $âÂÂ2$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:59
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
Let $alpha$ be a real number.
$mathbbQ[alpha]$ is the polynomial ring genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ[alpha]=f(alpha):finmathbbQ[X]$
On the other hand,
$mathbbQ(alpha)$ is the field genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ(alpha)=f(alpha):finmathbbQ(X)$
(The difference is that $mathbbQ[X]$ is the polynomial ring and $mathbbQ(X)$ is the field of rational functions so you can think of it as $mathbbQ(X)=FracmathbbQ[X]$
The point is that if $alpha$ is algebraic $mathbbQ[alpha]=mathbbQ(alpha)$. So in your case since, $sqrt2$ is algebraic, it is equivalent to think of it as the ring genereated by $sqrt2$ or the field genereated by $sqrt2$.
However, if $alpha$ is not algebraic (i.e. $pi$ is not a solution to a polynomial with rational coefficients), then $mathbbQ[alpha]subsetneqmathbbQ(alpha)$
While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 8:01
$mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:20
So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:31
One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:35
1
To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:39
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2
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The difference between the two is due to the fact that $sqrt2$ is an algebraic number and $pi$ is a trascendental number.
Indeed $mathbbQ[sqrt2]$ is also the ring of polynomials in $sqrt2$ with rational coefficients, but of course degrees $2$ and higher "collapse" because for example $sqrt2^3=2sqrt2$ which is so to say of degree $1$. For $pi$ this is never the case.
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Usually, $K(alpha)$ denotes the FIELD generated by $K$ and $alpha$, and $K[alpha]$ denotes the RING generated by $K$ and $alpha$.
If $Kleq L$ is a field extension and $alphain L$ is algebraic over $K$, then $K[alpha]= K(alpha)$.
However, if $alpha$ is transcendental. then $K[alpha]neq K(alpha)$.
The former is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every polynomial over $K$, the latter is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every rational function over $K$.
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
You have been somewhat lied to. $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ is not, a priori, the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $sqrt 2$. Its definition is the ring of polynomials in the variable $sqrt 2$ (which has the property that $sqrt 2^2 = 2$) with rational coefficients. It happens to be a field, but that's coincidental. The field is denoted as $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
So $Bbb Q[x]$ and $Bbb Q[pi]$ are rings of polynomials, while $Bbb Q(x)$ and $Bbb Q(pi)$ are their respective fields of fractions, i.e. the fields of rational functions with rational coefficients.
Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)â 0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:51
1
@HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
â Arthur
Aug 15 at 7:54
Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $âÂÂ2$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:59
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
You have been somewhat lied to. $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ is not, a priori, the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $sqrt 2$. Its definition is the ring of polynomials in the variable $sqrt 2$ (which has the property that $sqrt 2^2 = 2$) with rational coefficients. It happens to be a field, but that's coincidental. The field is denoted as $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
So $Bbb Q[x]$ and $Bbb Q[pi]$ are rings of polynomials, while $Bbb Q(x)$ and $Bbb Q(pi)$ are their respective fields of fractions, i.e. the fields of rational functions with rational coefficients.
Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)â 0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:51
1
@HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
â Arthur
Aug 15 at 7:54
Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $âÂÂ2$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:59
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
You have been somewhat lied to. $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ is not, a priori, the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $sqrt 2$. Its definition is the ring of polynomials in the variable $sqrt 2$ (which has the property that $sqrt 2^2 = 2$) with rational coefficients. It happens to be a field, but that's coincidental. The field is denoted as $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
So $Bbb Q[x]$ and $Bbb Q[pi]$ are rings of polynomials, while $Bbb Q(x)$ and $Bbb Q(pi)$ are their respective fields of fractions, i.e. the fields of rational functions with rational coefficients.
You have been somewhat lied to. $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ is not, a priori, the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $sqrt 2$. Its definition is the ring of polynomials in the variable $sqrt 2$ (which has the property that $sqrt 2^2 = 2$) with rational coefficients. It happens to be a field, but that's coincidental. The field is denoted as $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
So $Bbb Q[x]$ and $Bbb Q[pi]$ are rings of polynomials, while $Bbb Q(x)$ and $Bbb Q(pi)$ are their respective fields of fractions, i.e. the fields of rational functions with rational coefficients.
edited Aug 15 at 7:52
answered Aug 15 at 7:45
Arthur
99.8k793175
99.8k793175
Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)â 0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:51
1
@HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
â Arthur
Aug 15 at 7:54
Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $âÂÂ2$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:59
add a comment |Â
Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)â 0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:51
1
@HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
â Arthur
Aug 15 at 7:54
Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $âÂÂ2$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:59
Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)â 0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:51
Oh I see! He also used the notation $Bbb Q(x)$ for the field of fractions $fracp(x)q(x):q(x)â 0$. I realize now that it indeed is the smallest field containing $Bbb Q$ and $x$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:51
1
1
@HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
â Arthur
Aug 15 at 7:54
@HritRoy Exactly. Now because you can take any $fracf(sqrt 2)g(sqrt2)$ and expand it to make the denominator a rational number, and therefore make the whole thing into a polynomial, we have $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)cong Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$. Some like to use this isomorphism to write $Bbb Q[sqrt 2]$ when they really mean $Bbb Q(sqrt 2)$.
â Arthur
Aug 15 at 7:54
Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $âÂÂ2$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:59
Oh! Now I see why we use the same notation for both in case of $âÂÂ2$.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 7:59
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
Let $alpha$ be a real number.
$mathbbQ[alpha]$ is the polynomial ring genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ[alpha]=f(alpha):finmathbbQ[X]$
On the other hand,
$mathbbQ(alpha)$ is the field genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ(alpha)=f(alpha):finmathbbQ(X)$
(The difference is that $mathbbQ[X]$ is the polynomial ring and $mathbbQ(X)$ is the field of rational functions so you can think of it as $mathbbQ(X)=FracmathbbQ[X]$
The point is that if $alpha$ is algebraic $mathbbQ[alpha]=mathbbQ(alpha)$. So in your case since, $sqrt2$ is algebraic, it is equivalent to think of it as the ring genereated by $sqrt2$ or the field genereated by $sqrt2$.
However, if $alpha$ is not algebraic (i.e. $pi$ is not a solution to a polynomial with rational coefficients), then $mathbbQ[alpha]subsetneqmathbbQ(alpha)$
While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 8:01
$mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:20
So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:31
One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:35
1
To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:39
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
5
down vote
Let $alpha$ be a real number.
$mathbbQ[alpha]$ is the polynomial ring genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ[alpha]=f(alpha):finmathbbQ[X]$
On the other hand,
$mathbbQ(alpha)$ is the field genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ(alpha)=f(alpha):finmathbbQ(X)$
(The difference is that $mathbbQ[X]$ is the polynomial ring and $mathbbQ(X)$ is the field of rational functions so you can think of it as $mathbbQ(X)=FracmathbbQ[X]$
The point is that if $alpha$ is algebraic $mathbbQ[alpha]=mathbbQ(alpha)$. So in your case since, $sqrt2$ is algebraic, it is equivalent to think of it as the ring genereated by $sqrt2$ or the field genereated by $sqrt2$.
However, if $alpha$ is not algebraic (i.e. $pi$ is not a solution to a polynomial with rational coefficients), then $mathbbQ[alpha]subsetneqmathbbQ(alpha)$
While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 8:01
$mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:20
So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:31
One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:35
1
To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:39
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
Let $alpha$ be a real number.
$mathbbQ[alpha]$ is the polynomial ring genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ[alpha]=f(alpha):finmathbbQ[X]$
On the other hand,
$mathbbQ(alpha)$ is the field genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ(alpha)=f(alpha):finmathbbQ(X)$
(The difference is that $mathbbQ[X]$ is the polynomial ring and $mathbbQ(X)$ is the field of rational functions so you can think of it as $mathbbQ(X)=FracmathbbQ[X]$
The point is that if $alpha$ is algebraic $mathbbQ[alpha]=mathbbQ(alpha)$. So in your case since, $sqrt2$ is algebraic, it is equivalent to think of it as the ring genereated by $sqrt2$ or the field genereated by $sqrt2$.
However, if $alpha$ is not algebraic (i.e. $pi$ is not a solution to a polynomial with rational coefficients), then $mathbbQ[alpha]subsetneqmathbbQ(alpha)$
Let $alpha$ be a real number.
$mathbbQ[alpha]$ is the polynomial ring genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ[alpha]=f(alpha):finmathbbQ[X]$
On the other hand,
$mathbbQ(alpha)$ is the field genereated by $alpha$. In other words, $mathbbQ(alpha)=f(alpha):finmathbbQ(X)$
(The difference is that $mathbbQ[X]$ is the polynomial ring and $mathbbQ(X)$ is the field of rational functions so you can think of it as $mathbbQ(X)=FracmathbbQ[X]$
The point is that if $alpha$ is algebraic $mathbbQ[alpha]=mathbbQ(alpha)$. So in your case since, $sqrt2$ is algebraic, it is equivalent to think of it as the ring genereated by $sqrt2$ or the field genereated by $sqrt2$.
However, if $alpha$ is not algebraic (i.e. $pi$ is not a solution to a polynomial with rational coefficients), then $mathbbQ[alpha]subsetneqmathbbQ(alpha)$
answered Aug 15 at 7:48
daruma
905612
905612
While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 8:01
$mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:20
So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:31
One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:35
1
To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:39
 |Â
show 1 more comment
While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 8:01
$mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:20
So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:31
One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:35
1
To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:39
While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 8:01
While defining $Bbb Q[alpha]$ you used $Bbb Q[X]$. Are the two defined differently then?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 8:01
$mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:20
$mathbbQ[X]$ has no relation between $X$ because $X$ is a "variable" (sometimes also called indeterminate). On the other hand $alpha$ is a number and there may be "algebraic relations" such as $alpha^2-2=0$ for $alpha=sqrt2$, whilst a variable does not have such relations.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:20
So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:31
So we define $Bbb Q[X]$ in the usual way as the ring of all polynomials in the indeterminate $X$ having rational coefficients and in case of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ we make use of any algebraic relation about $alpha$ that we know of.
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:31
One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:35
One thing I'd like to ask. You wrote the elements of $Bbb Q[X]$ as simply $f$ and the elements of $Bbb Q[alpha]$ as $f(alpha)$. Was there any particular reason behind this?
â Hrit Roy
Aug 15 at 9:35
1
1
To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:39
To answer your first question, yes, $mathbbQ[alpha]$ means just plug in $alpha$ into all polynomials in $mathbbQ[X]$ and consider it as some subset of the reals. To answer your second question, you say $f=f(X)=X^2-2$ (it's just slopiness in notation, really) and $f(alpha)$ just means "plug the real number $alpha$ in your polynomial.
â daruma
Aug 15 at 9:39
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
The difference between the two is due to the fact that $sqrt2$ is an algebraic number and $pi$ is a trascendental number.
Indeed $mathbbQ[sqrt2]$ is also the ring of polynomials in $sqrt2$ with rational coefficients, but of course degrees $2$ and higher "collapse" because for example $sqrt2^3=2sqrt2$ which is so to say of degree $1$. For $pi$ this is never the case.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
The difference between the two is due to the fact that $sqrt2$ is an algebraic number and $pi$ is a trascendental number.
Indeed $mathbbQ[sqrt2]$ is also the ring of polynomials in $sqrt2$ with rational coefficients, but of course degrees $2$ and higher "collapse" because for example $sqrt2^3=2sqrt2$ which is so to say of degree $1$. For $pi$ this is never the case.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
The difference between the two is due to the fact that $sqrt2$ is an algebraic number and $pi$ is a trascendental number.
Indeed $mathbbQ[sqrt2]$ is also the ring of polynomials in $sqrt2$ with rational coefficients, but of course degrees $2$ and higher "collapse" because for example $sqrt2^3=2sqrt2$ which is so to say of degree $1$. For $pi$ this is never the case.
The difference between the two is due to the fact that $sqrt2$ is an algebraic number and $pi$ is a trascendental number.
Indeed $mathbbQ[sqrt2]$ is also the ring of polynomials in $sqrt2$ with rational coefficients, but of course degrees $2$ and higher "collapse" because for example $sqrt2^3=2sqrt2$ which is so to say of degree $1$. For $pi$ this is never the case.
answered Aug 15 at 7:46
b00n heT
8,08411430
8,08411430
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Usually, $K(alpha)$ denotes the FIELD generated by $K$ and $alpha$, and $K[alpha]$ denotes the RING generated by $K$ and $alpha$.
If $Kleq L$ is a field extension and $alphain L$ is algebraic over $K$, then $K[alpha]= K(alpha)$.
However, if $alpha$ is transcendental. then $K[alpha]neq K(alpha)$.
The former is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every polynomial over $K$, the latter is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every rational function over $K$.
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up vote
1
down vote
Usually, $K(alpha)$ denotes the FIELD generated by $K$ and $alpha$, and $K[alpha]$ denotes the RING generated by $K$ and $alpha$.
If $Kleq L$ is a field extension and $alphain L$ is algebraic over $K$, then $K[alpha]= K(alpha)$.
However, if $alpha$ is transcendental. then $K[alpha]neq K(alpha)$.
The former is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every polynomial over $K$, the latter is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every rational function over $K$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Usually, $K(alpha)$ denotes the FIELD generated by $K$ and $alpha$, and $K[alpha]$ denotes the RING generated by $K$ and $alpha$.
If $Kleq L$ is a field extension and $alphain L$ is algebraic over $K$, then $K[alpha]= K(alpha)$.
However, if $alpha$ is transcendental. then $K[alpha]neq K(alpha)$.
The former is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every polynomial over $K$, the latter is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every rational function over $K$.
Usually, $K(alpha)$ denotes the FIELD generated by $K$ and $alpha$, and $K[alpha]$ denotes the RING generated by $K$ and $alpha$.
If $Kleq L$ is a field extension and $alphain L$ is algebraic over $K$, then $K[alpha]= K(alpha)$.
However, if $alpha$ is transcendental. then $K[alpha]neq K(alpha)$.
The former is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every polynomial over $K$, the latter is obtained by substituting $alpha$ into every rational function over $K$.
answered Aug 15 at 7:46
A. Pongrácz
3,797625
3,797625
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