Does nonstandard analysis allow for a more powerful second derivative test?

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
0
down vote

favorite












The second-derivative test states that if $x$ is a real number such that $f'(x)=0$, then:



  1. If $f''(x)>0$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

  2. If $f''(x)<0$, then $f$ has a local maximum at $x$.

  3. If $f''(x)=0$, then the text is inconclusive.

I’m wondering whether non-standard analysis, involving the hyperreal numbers, allows for a more powerful version of the second-derivative test, one that has fewer or no inconclusive cases. In terms of nonstandard analysis, the second derivative of $f$ is defined as the standard part of $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon$ for any infinitesimal $epsilon$. But what if we omit the bit about the standard part? Fixing some infinitesimal $epsilon$, let $g(x)=fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon$.



Then can we define a more powerful second derivative test as follows?



  1. If $g(x)>0$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

  2. If $g(x)<0$, then $f$ has a local maximum at $x$.

  3. If $g(x)=0$, then the text is inconclusive.

Is this valid, and would this test apply to a greater class of functions than the regular second derivative test?







share|cite|improve this question
























    up vote
    0
    down vote

    favorite












    The second-derivative test states that if $x$ is a real number such that $f'(x)=0$, then:



    1. If $f''(x)>0$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

    2. If $f''(x)<0$, then $f$ has a local maximum at $x$.

    3. If $f''(x)=0$, then the text is inconclusive.

    I’m wondering whether non-standard analysis, involving the hyperreal numbers, allows for a more powerful version of the second-derivative test, one that has fewer or no inconclusive cases. In terms of nonstandard analysis, the second derivative of $f$ is defined as the standard part of $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon$ for any infinitesimal $epsilon$. But what if we omit the bit about the standard part? Fixing some infinitesimal $epsilon$, let $g(x)=fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon$.



    Then can we define a more powerful second derivative test as follows?



    1. If $g(x)>0$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

    2. If $g(x)<0$, then $f$ has a local maximum at $x$.

    3. If $g(x)=0$, then the text is inconclusive.

    Is this valid, and would this test apply to a greater class of functions than the regular second derivative test?







    share|cite|improve this question






















      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite











      The second-derivative test states that if $x$ is a real number such that $f'(x)=0$, then:



      1. If $f''(x)>0$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

      2. If $f''(x)<0$, then $f$ has a local maximum at $x$.

      3. If $f''(x)=0$, then the text is inconclusive.

      I’m wondering whether non-standard analysis, involving the hyperreal numbers, allows for a more powerful version of the second-derivative test, one that has fewer or no inconclusive cases. In terms of nonstandard analysis, the second derivative of $f$ is defined as the standard part of $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon$ for any infinitesimal $epsilon$. But what if we omit the bit about the standard part? Fixing some infinitesimal $epsilon$, let $g(x)=fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon$.



      Then can we define a more powerful second derivative test as follows?



      1. If $g(x)>0$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

      2. If $g(x)<0$, then $f$ has a local maximum at $x$.

      3. If $g(x)=0$, then the text is inconclusive.

      Is this valid, and would this test apply to a greater class of functions than the regular second derivative test?







      share|cite|improve this question












      The second-derivative test states that if $x$ is a real number such that $f'(x)=0$, then:



      1. If $f''(x)>0$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

      2. If $f''(x)<0$, then $f$ has a local maximum at $x$.

      3. If $f''(x)=0$, then the text is inconclusive.

      I’m wondering whether non-standard analysis, involving the hyperreal numbers, allows for a more powerful version of the second-derivative test, one that has fewer or no inconclusive cases. In terms of nonstandard analysis, the second derivative of $f$ is defined as the standard part of $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon$ for any infinitesimal $epsilon$. But what if we omit the bit about the standard part? Fixing some infinitesimal $epsilon$, let $g(x)=fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon$.



      Then can we define a more powerful second derivative test as follows?



      1. If $g(x)>0$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

      2. If $g(x)<0$, then $f$ has a local maximum at $x$.

      3. If $g(x)=0$, then the text is inconclusive.

      Is this valid, and would this test apply to a greater class of functions than the regular second derivative test?









      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Aug 15 at 5:19









      Keshav Srinivasan

      1,80811338




      1,80811338




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          3
          down vote



          accepted










          Let's take 1:



          If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

          False in general.1



          This one works:



          If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ for all positive infinitesmial $epsilon$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.



          But (by the transfer principle) that is the same as this one, using only ordinary real numbers $epsilon$:



          If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ for all sufficiently small positive real $epsilon$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.




          1 Example: $f(x) = int_0^x t sin frac1t;dt$, so $fracf’(0+epsilon)-f’(0)epsilon = sinfrac1epsilon$, which is positive for some positive infinitesimal $epsilon$ and negative for some other positive infinitesimal $epsilon$.







          share|cite|improve this answer




















            Your Answer




            StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
            return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
            StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
            StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
            );
            );
            , "mathjax-editing");

            StackExchange.ready(function()
            var channelOptions =
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "69"
            ;
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
            createEditor();
            );

            else
            createEditor();

            );

            function createEditor()
            StackExchange.prepareEditor(
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            convertImagesToLinks: true,
            noModals: false,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: 10,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            );



            );








             

            draft saved


            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2883227%2fdoes-nonstandard-analysis-allow-for-a-more-powerful-second-derivative-test%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest






























            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes








            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes








            up vote
            3
            down vote



            accepted










            Let's take 1:



            If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

            False in general.1



            This one works:



            If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ for all positive infinitesmial $epsilon$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.



            But (by the transfer principle) that is the same as this one, using only ordinary real numbers $epsilon$:



            If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ for all sufficiently small positive real $epsilon$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.




            1 Example: $f(x) = int_0^x t sin frac1t;dt$, so $fracf’(0+epsilon)-f’(0)epsilon = sinfrac1epsilon$, which is positive for some positive infinitesimal $epsilon$ and negative for some other positive infinitesimal $epsilon$.







            share|cite|improve this answer
























              up vote
              3
              down vote



              accepted










              Let's take 1:



              If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

              False in general.1



              This one works:



              If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ for all positive infinitesmial $epsilon$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.



              But (by the transfer principle) that is the same as this one, using only ordinary real numbers $epsilon$:



              If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ for all sufficiently small positive real $epsilon$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.




              1 Example: $f(x) = int_0^x t sin frac1t;dt$, so $fracf’(0+epsilon)-f’(0)epsilon = sinfrac1epsilon$, which is positive for some positive infinitesimal $epsilon$ and negative for some other positive infinitesimal $epsilon$.







              share|cite|improve this answer






















                up vote
                3
                down vote



                accepted







                up vote
                3
                down vote



                accepted






                Let's take 1:



                If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

                False in general.1



                This one works:



                If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ for all positive infinitesmial $epsilon$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.



                But (by the transfer principle) that is the same as this one, using only ordinary real numbers $epsilon$:



                If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ for all sufficiently small positive real $epsilon$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.




                1 Example: $f(x) = int_0^x t sin frac1t;dt$, so $fracf’(0+epsilon)-f’(0)epsilon = sinfrac1epsilon$, which is positive for some positive infinitesimal $epsilon$ and negative for some other positive infinitesimal $epsilon$.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                Let's take 1:



                If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.

                False in general.1



                This one works:



                If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ for all positive infinitesmial $epsilon$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.



                But (by the transfer principle) that is the same as this one, using only ordinary real numbers $epsilon$:



                If $fracf’(x+epsilon)-f’(x)epsilon > 0$ for all sufficiently small positive real $epsilon$, then $f$ has a local minimum at $x$.




                1 Example: $f(x) = int_0^x t sin frac1t;dt$, so $fracf’(0+epsilon)-f’(0)epsilon = sinfrac1epsilon$, which is positive for some positive infinitesimal $epsilon$ and negative for some other positive infinitesimal $epsilon$.








                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Aug 15 at 11:56









                GEdgar

                58.6k264163




                58.6k264163






















                     

                    draft saved


                    draft discarded


























                     


                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function ()
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2883227%2fdoes-nonstandard-analysis-allow-for-a-more-powerful-second-derivative-test%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                    );

                    Post as a guest













































































                    這個網誌中的熱門文章

                    tkz-euclide: tkzDrawCircle[R] not working

                    How to combine Bézier curves to a surface?

                    1st Magritte Awards