Using AM-GM to reason about the upper bound of an $n$th root of a factorial

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I am working on an alternative argument for the Sylvester-Schur theorem.



I want to show that for $n > 18$, $n+1 > sqrt[leftroot-1uproot2scriptstyle left(n - pi(n) - 1right)] n! $.



Can be AM-GM be used to demonstrate this?



Here's my thinking:



(1) For $n ge 2, pi(n) le fracn3 + 2$




The prime counting function $pi(n) le fracn3 + 2$ since for a prime $p > 3, p equiv 1 pmod 6$ or $p equiv 5 pmod 6$ so that $pi(n) le 2 + leftlfloorfracn+16rightrfloor + leftlfloorfracn+56rightrfloor - 1 le frac2n+126 = fracn+63$.




(2) For $n > 18, fracn-22 > pi(n)$




If $n > 18$, then $fracn-22 > fracn3+2 ge pi(n)$ since $3n - 6 > 2n+12$.




(3) $1 > dfracn2(n-pi(n) -1)$




This follows from $2(n - pi(n) -1) > n$ since $n-2 > 2pi(n)$.




(4) Multiplying $n+1$ to both sides of the equation:



$$n+1 > fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1)$$



Can I now use AM-GM and the summation formula of $sumlimits_i le ni = frac(n+1)(n)2$ to conclude:



$$n+1 > fracn(n+1)2(n - pi(n)-1) > sqrt[leftroot-1uproot2scriptstyle left(n-pi(n)-1right)]n!$$







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    up vote
    9
    down vote

    favorite
    1












    I am working on an alternative argument for the Sylvester-Schur theorem.



    I want to show that for $n > 18$, $n+1 > sqrt[leftroot-1uproot2scriptstyle left(n - pi(n) - 1right)] n! $.



    Can be AM-GM be used to demonstrate this?



    Here's my thinking:



    (1) For $n ge 2, pi(n) le fracn3 + 2$




    The prime counting function $pi(n) le fracn3 + 2$ since for a prime $p > 3, p equiv 1 pmod 6$ or $p equiv 5 pmod 6$ so that $pi(n) le 2 + leftlfloorfracn+16rightrfloor + leftlfloorfracn+56rightrfloor - 1 le frac2n+126 = fracn+63$.




    (2) For $n > 18, fracn-22 > pi(n)$




    If $n > 18$, then $fracn-22 > fracn3+2 ge pi(n)$ since $3n - 6 > 2n+12$.




    (3) $1 > dfracn2(n-pi(n) -1)$




    This follows from $2(n - pi(n) -1) > n$ since $n-2 > 2pi(n)$.




    (4) Multiplying $n+1$ to both sides of the equation:



    $$n+1 > fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1)$$



    Can I now use AM-GM and the summation formula of $sumlimits_i le ni = frac(n+1)(n)2$ to conclude:



    $$n+1 > fracn(n+1)2(n - pi(n)-1) > sqrt[leftroot-1uproot2scriptstyle left(n-pi(n)-1right)]n!$$







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      up vote
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      down vote

      favorite
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      up vote
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      1





      I am working on an alternative argument for the Sylvester-Schur theorem.



      I want to show that for $n > 18$, $n+1 > sqrt[leftroot-1uproot2scriptstyle left(n - pi(n) - 1right)] n! $.



      Can be AM-GM be used to demonstrate this?



      Here's my thinking:



      (1) For $n ge 2, pi(n) le fracn3 + 2$




      The prime counting function $pi(n) le fracn3 + 2$ since for a prime $p > 3, p equiv 1 pmod 6$ or $p equiv 5 pmod 6$ so that $pi(n) le 2 + leftlfloorfracn+16rightrfloor + leftlfloorfracn+56rightrfloor - 1 le frac2n+126 = fracn+63$.




      (2) For $n > 18, fracn-22 > pi(n)$




      If $n > 18$, then $fracn-22 > fracn3+2 ge pi(n)$ since $3n - 6 > 2n+12$.




      (3) $1 > dfracn2(n-pi(n) -1)$




      This follows from $2(n - pi(n) -1) > n$ since $n-2 > 2pi(n)$.




      (4) Multiplying $n+1$ to both sides of the equation:



      $$n+1 > fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1)$$



      Can I now use AM-GM and the summation formula of $sumlimits_i le ni = frac(n+1)(n)2$ to conclude:



      $$n+1 > fracn(n+1)2(n - pi(n)-1) > sqrt[leftroot-1uproot2scriptstyle left(n-pi(n)-1right)]n!$$







      share|cite|improve this question












      I am working on an alternative argument for the Sylvester-Schur theorem.



      I want to show that for $n > 18$, $n+1 > sqrt[leftroot-1uproot2scriptstyle left(n - pi(n) - 1right)] n! $.



      Can be AM-GM be used to demonstrate this?



      Here's my thinking:



      (1) For $n ge 2, pi(n) le fracn3 + 2$




      The prime counting function $pi(n) le fracn3 + 2$ since for a prime $p > 3, p equiv 1 pmod 6$ or $p equiv 5 pmod 6$ so that $pi(n) le 2 + leftlfloorfracn+16rightrfloor + leftlfloorfracn+56rightrfloor - 1 le frac2n+126 = fracn+63$.




      (2) For $n > 18, fracn-22 > pi(n)$




      If $n > 18$, then $fracn-22 > fracn3+2 ge pi(n)$ since $3n - 6 > 2n+12$.




      (3) $1 > dfracn2(n-pi(n) -1)$




      This follows from $2(n - pi(n) -1) > n$ since $n-2 > 2pi(n)$.




      (4) Multiplying $n+1$ to both sides of the equation:



      $$n+1 > fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1)$$



      Can I now use AM-GM and the summation formula of $sumlimits_i le ni = frac(n+1)(n)2$ to conclude:



      $$n+1 > fracn(n+1)2(n - pi(n)-1) > sqrt[leftroot-1uproot2scriptstyle left(n-pi(n)-1right)]n!$$









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      asked Aug 22 at 3:01









      Larry Freeman

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          Strictly speaking, $sqrt[k]n! not leq fracn(n+1)2k$ for all $k geq 1$. (The Left Hand Side converges to 1 and the right converges to 0 as $k to infty.)



          The inequality fails for $n = 10$, where $pi(10) = 4$ and so $$frac10(11)2(10-4-1) = 11 < 20.5093835306 approx sqrt[10-4-1]10!$$ and for $n = 19$, $pi(19) = 8$, so $$frac19(20)2(19-8-1) = 19 < 51.1104214517 approx sqrt[10]19!$$



          Even for $n = 100$, $pi(100) = 25$ (pi(n)) so
          $$frac100(101)2(100-25-1) = 68.2432432432 < 136.373434808 approx sqrt[10-25-1]100!$$



          So your inequality fails for $n$ as large as $100$.(You can check my work, if you want.)



          The only redeeming property seems to be that for $k_n = n-pi(n) -1 < n$, $fracCnlog(n)leq pi(n) leq fracDnlog(n)$ so $k_n$ is slightly smaller than $1/n$. See (1) below. Even without that, $k_n > 0$, as you showed above.



          A direct approach does not seem to work (but there might be others), because:



          $$(n!)^1/k_n = (n!)^1/n(n!)^1/k_n - 1/n < fracn(n+1)2n(n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)) = fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1) left(fracn-pi(n)-1nright)(n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)) < fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1) (n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)).$$



          The question is how to control that exponent. which you need to be less than $1/n$, because you need the factorial term to vanish. If you use the estimates for $pi(n)$, then you can get that it is at most
          $$fracDn/log(n)+1n(n-Cn/log(n)-1) = fracD/log(n)+1/nn(1-C/log(n)-1/n)$$
          which is at most $Const.left(frac1nlog(n)right)$. But since $sqrt[n]n! sim n/e$ by Stirling's Inequality and $n^1/log(n) = e$, (See here) we see that this term is just bounded by a constant. So, at the end of the day what I got for large $n$ by applying AM-GM in "the obvious way" was $(n!)^1/k_n < Const. fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1)$



          (1) $C, D > 0$ exist (perhaps for large $n$) according to an "elementary" proof (meaning just combinatorics, not complex analysis or such) in Number Theory - Andrews, (I don't have the book with me) and $C = 1, D = 1.25506$ according to Prime Counting






          share|cite|improve this answer




















          • Thanks very much for your analysis! AM-GM does not apply to the question that I am trying to answer.
            – Larry Freeman
            Aug 22 at 5:07










          Your Answer




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          1 Answer
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          active

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          active

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          up vote
          4
          down vote



          accepted










          Strictly speaking, $sqrt[k]n! not leq fracn(n+1)2k$ for all $k geq 1$. (The Left Hand Side converges to 1 and the right converges to 0 as $k to infty.)



          The inequality fails for $n = 10$, where $pi(10) = 4$ and so $$frac10(11)2(10-4-1) = 11 < 20.5093835306 approx sqrt[10-4-1]10!$$ and for $n = 19$, $pi(19) = 8$, so $$frac19(20)2(19-8-1) = 19 < 51.1104214517 approx sqrt[10]19!$$



          Even for $n = 100$, $pi(100) = 25$ (pi(n)) so
          $$frac100(101)2(100-25-1) = 68.2432432432 < 136.373434808 approx sqrt[10-25-1]100!$$



          So your inequality fails for $n$ as large as $100$.(You can check my work, if you want.)



          The only redeeming property seems to be that for $k_n = n-pi(n) -1 < n$, $fracCnlog(n)leq pi(n) leq fracDnlog(n)$ so $k_n$ is slightly smaller than $1/n$. See (1) below. Even without that, $k_n > 0$, as you showed above.



          A direct approach does not seem to work (but there might be others), because:



          $$(n!)^1/k_n = (n!)^1/n(n!)^1/k_n - 1/n < fracn(n+1)2n(n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)) = fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1) left(fracn-pi(n)-1nright)(n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)) < fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1) (n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)).$$



          The question is how to control that exponent. which you need to be less than $1/n$, because you need the factorial term to vanish. If you use the estimates for $pi(n)$, then you can get that it is at most
          $$fracDn/log(n)+1n(n-Cn/log(n)-1) = fracD/log(n)+1/nn(1-C/log(n)-1/n)$$
          which is at most $Const.left(frac1nlog(n)right)$. But since $sqrt[n]n! sim n/e$ by Stirling's Inequality and $n^1/log(n) = e$, (See here) we see that this term is just bounded by a constant. So, at the end of the day what I got for large $n$ by applying AM-GM in "the obvious way" was $(n!)^1/k_n < Const. fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1)$



          (1) $C, D > 0$ exist (perhaps for large $n$) according to an "elementary" proof (meaning just combinatorics, not complex analysis or such) in Number Theory - Andrews, (I don't have the book with me) and $C = 1, D = 1.25506$ according to Prime Counting






          share|cite|improve this answer




















          • Thanks very much for your analysis! AM-GM does not apply to the question that I am trying to answer.
            – Larry Freeman
            Aug 22 at 5:07














          up vote
          4
          down vote



          accepted










          Strictly speaking, $sqrt[k]n! not leq fracn(n+1)2k$ for all $k geq 1$. (The Left Hand Side converges to 1 and the right converges to 0 as $k to infty.)



          The inequality fails for $n = 10$, where $pi(10) = 4$ and so $$frac10(11)2(10-4-1) = 11 < 20.5093835306 approx sqrt[10-4-1]10!$$ and for $n = 19$, $pi(19) = 8$, so $$frac19(20)2(19-8-1) = 19 < 51.1104214517 approx sqrt[10]19!$$



          Even for $n = 100$, $pi(100) = 25$ (pi(n)) so
          $$frac100(101)2(100-25-1) = 68.2432432432 < 136.373434808 approx sqrt[10-25-1]100!$$



          So your inequality fails for $n$ as large as $100$.(You can check my work, if you want.)



          The only redeeming property seems to be that for $k_n = n-pi(n) -1 < n$, $fracCnlog(n)leq pi(n) leq fracDnlog(n)$ so $k_n$ is slightly smaller than $1/n$. See (1) below. Even without that, $k_n > 0$, as you showed above.



          A direct approach does not seem to work (but there might be others), because:



          $$(n!)^1/k_n = (n!)^1/n(n!)^1/k_n - 1/n < fracn(n+1)2n(n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)) = fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1) left(fracn-pi(n)-1nright)(n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)) < fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1) (n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)).$$



          The question is how to control that exponent. which you need to be less than $1/n$, because you need the factorial term to vanish. If you use the estimates for $pi(n)$, then you can get that it is at most
          $$fracDn/log(n)+1n(n-Cn/log(n)-1) = fracD/log(n)+1/nn(1-C/log(n)-1/n)$$
          which is at most $Const.left(frac1nlog(n)right)$. But since $sqrt[n]n! sim n/e$ by Stirling's Inequality and $n^1/log(n) = e$, (See here) we see that this term is just bounded by a constant. So, at the end of the day what I got for large $n$ by applying AM-GM in "the obvious way" was $(n!)^1/k_n < Const. fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1)$



          (1) $C, D > 0$ exist (perhaps for large $n$) according to an "elementary" proof (meaning just combinatorics, not complex analysis or such) in Number Theory - Andrews, (I don't have the book with me) and $C = 1, D = 1.25506$ according to Prime Counting






          share|cite|improve this answer




















          • Thanks very much for your analysis! AM-GM does not apply to the question that I am trying to answer.
            – Larry Freeman
            Aug 22 at 5:07












          up vote
          4
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          4
          down vote



          accepted






          Strictly speaking, $sqrt[k]n! not leq fracn(n+1)2k$ for all $k geq 1$. (The Left Hand Side converges to 1 and the right converges to 0 as $k to infty.)



          The inequality fails for $n = 10$, where $pi(10) = 4$ and so $$frac10(11)2(10-4-1) = 11 < 20.5093835306 approx sqrt[10-4-1]10!$$ and for $n = 19$, $pi(19) = 8$, so $$frac19(20)2(19-8-1) = 19 < 51.1104214517 approx sqrt[10]19!$$



          Even for $n = 100$, $pi(100) = 25$ (pi(n)) so
          $$frac100(101)2(100-25-1) = 68.2432432432 < 136.373434808 approx sqrt[10-25-1]100!$$



          So your inequality fails for $n$ as large as $100$.(You can check my work, if you want.)



          The only redeeming property seems to be that for $k_n = n-pi(n) -1 < n$, $fracCnlog(n)leq pi(n) leq fracDnlog(n)$ so $k_n$ is slightly smaller than $1/n$. See (1) below. Even without that, $k_n > 0$, as you showed above.



          A direct approach does not seem to work (but there might be others), because:



          $$(n!)^1/k_n = (n!)^1/n(n!)^1/k_n - 1/n < fracn(n+1)2n(n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)) = fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1) left(fracn-pi(n)-1nright)(n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)) < fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1) (n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)).$$



          The question is how to control that exponent. which you need to be less than $1/n$, because you need the factorial term to vanish. If you use the estimates for $pi(n)$, then you can get that it is at most
          $$fracDn/log(n)+1n(n-Cn/log(n)-1) = fracD/log(n)+1/nn(1-C/log(n)-1/n)$$
          which is at most $Const.left(frac1nlog(n)right)$. But since $sqrt[n]n! sim n/e$ by Stirling's Inequality and $n^1/log(n) = e$, (See here) we see that this term is just bounded by a constant. So, at the end of the day what I got for large $n$ by applying AM-GM in "the obvious way" was $(n!)^1/k_n < Const. fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1)$



          (1) $C, D > 0$ exist (perhaps for large $n$) according to an "elementary" proof (meaning just combinatorics, not complex analysis or such) in Number Theory - Andrews, (I don't have the book with me) and $C = 1, D = 1.25506$ according to Prime Counting






          share|cite|improve this answer












          Strictly speaking, $sqrt[k]n! not leq fracn(n+1)2k$ for all $k geq 1$. (The Left Hand Side converges to 1 and the right converges to 0 as $k to infty.)



          The inequality fails for $n = 10$, where $pi(10) = 4$ and so $$frac10(11)2(10-4-1) = 11 < 20.5093835306 approx sqrt[10-4-1]10!$$ and for $n = 19$, $pi(19) = 8$, so $$frac19(20)2(19-8-1) = 19 < 51.1104214517 approx sqrt[10]19!$$



          Even for $n = 100$, $pi(100) = 25$ (pi(n)) so
          $$frac100(101)2(100-25-1) = 68.2432432432 < 136.373434808 approx sqrt[10-25-1]100!$$



          So your inequality fails for $n$ as large as $100$.(You can check my work, if you want.)



          The only redeeming property seems to be that for $k_n = n-pi(n) -1 < n$, $fracCnlog(n)leq pi(n) leq fracDnlog(n)$ so $k_n$ is slightly smaller than $1/n$. See (1) below. Even without that, $k_n > 0$, as you showed above.



          A direct approach does not seem to work (but there might be others), because:



          $$(n!)^1/k_n = (n!)^1/n(n!)^1/k_n - 1/n < fracn(n+1)2n(n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)) = fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1) left(fracn-pi(n)-1nright)(n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)) < fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1) (n!)^(pi(n)+1)/(n(n-pi(n)-1)).$$



          The question is how to control that exponent. which you need to be less than $1/n$, because you need the factorial term to vanish. If you use the estimates for $pi(n)$, then you can get that it is at most
          $$fracDn/log(n)+1n(n-Cn/log(n)-1) = fracD/log(n)+1/nn(1-C/log(n)-1/n)$$
          which is at most $Const.left(frac1nlog(n)right)$. But since $sqrt[n]n! sim n/e$ by Stirling's Inequality and $n^1/log(n) = e$, (See here) we see that this term is just bounded by a constant. So, at the end of the day what I got for large $n$ by applying AM-GM in "the obvious way" was $(n!)^1/k_n < Const. fracn(n+1)2(n-pi(n)-1)$



          (1) $C, D > 0$ exist (perhaps for large $n$) according to an "elementary" proof (meaning just combinatorics, not complex analysis or such) in Number Theory - Andrews, (I don't have the book with me) and $C = 1, D = 1.25506$ according to Prime Counting







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Aug 22 at 5:03









          4-ier

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          5989











          • Thanks very much for your analysis! AM-GM does not apply to the question that I am trying to answer.
            – Larry Freeman
            Aug 22 at 5:07
















          • Thanks very much for your analysis! AM-GM does not apply to the question that I am trying to answer.
            – Larry Freeman
            Aug 22 at 5:07















          Thanks very much for your analysis! AM-GM does not apply to the question that I am trying to answer.
          – Larry Freeman
          Aug 22 at 5:07




          Thanks very much for your analysis! AM-GM does not apply to the question that I am trying to answer.
          – Larry Freeman
          Aug 22 at 5:07












           

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