How to descend within the âÂÂTree of primitive Pythagorean triplesâÂÂ?

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It is well-known that the set of all primitive Pythagorean triples has the structure of an infinite ternary rooted tree.
What is the exact algorithm (i.e., formula, or possibly set of three formulas) by which one can take a given Pythagorean triple $(a,b,c)$ and find the immediately smaller triple in the tree? For example, given $(165,52,173)$, how does one obtain its [unique] âÂÂancestorâ triple $(77,36,85)$?
elementary-number-theory pythagorean-triples
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up vote
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down vote
favorite
It is well-known that the set of all primitive Pythagorean triples has the structure of an infinite ternary rooted tree.
What is the exact algorithm (i.e., formula, or possibly set of three formulas) by which one can take a given Pythagorean triple $(a,b,c)$ and find the immediately smaller triple in the tree? For example, given $(165,52,173)$, how does one obtain its [unique] âÂÂancestorâ triple $(77,36,85)$?
elementary-number-theory pythagorean-triples
2
I've done a writeup on a geometric mechanism of traversing this tree here. The exact formula is $(abs(p-2q),q)text or (q,abs(p-2q))$, assuming you are able to resolve $(a,b,c)$ to the $p,q$ generating pair.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:43
1
This formula is derived directly from the reverse-direction three-way formula $(p+2q,q), (2p+q,p), (2p-q,p)$. In all these formulas, we have $(a,b,c)=(p^2-q^2,2pq,p^2+q^2)$.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:51
Better pay attention to the search for solutions Diofantos equation of the form: $aX^2+bXY+cY^2=jZ^2$
â individ
Oct 9 '14 at 17:47
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
It is well-known that the set of all primitive Pythagorean triples has the structure of an infinite ternary rooted tree.
What is the exact algorithm (i.e., formula, or possibly set of three formulas) by which one can take a given Pythagorean triple $(a,b,c)$ and find the immediately smaller triple in the tree? For example, given $(165,52,173)$, how does one obtain its [unique] âÂÂancestorâ triple $(77,36,85)$?
elementary-number-theory pythagorean-triples
It is well-known that the set of all primitive Pythagorean triples has the structure of an infinite ternary rooted tree.
What is the exact algorithm (i.e., formula, or possibly set of three formulas) by which one can take a given Pythagorean triple $(a,b,c)$ and find the immediately smaller triple in the tree? For example, given $(165,52,173)$, how does one obtain its [unique] âÂÂancestorâ triple $(77,36,85)$?
elementary-number-theory pythagorean-triples
asked Oct 9 '14 at 13:57
Kieren MacMillan
3,40911551
3,40911551
2
I've done a writeup on a geometric mechanism of traversing this tree here. The exact formula is $(abs(p-2q),q)text or (q,abs(p-2q))$, assuming you are able to resolve $(a,b,c)$ to the $p,q$ generating pair.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:43
1
This formula is derived directly from the reverse-direction three-way formula $(p+2q,q), (2p+q,p), (2p-q,p)$. In all these formulas, we have $(a,b,c)=(p^2-q^2,2pq,p^2+q^2)$.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:51
Better pay attention to the search for solutions Diofantos equation of the form: $aX^2+bXY+cY^2=jZ^2$
â individ
Oct 9 '14 at 17:47
add a comment |Â
2
I've done a writeup on a geometric mechanism of traversing this tree here. The exact formula is $(abs(p-2q),q)text or (q,abs(p-2q))$, assuming you are able to resolve $(a,b,c)$ to the $p,q$ generating pair.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:43
1
This formula is derived directly from the reverse-direction three-way formula $(p+2q,q), (2p+q,p), (2p-q,p)$. In all these formulas, we have $(a,b,c)=(p^2-q^2,2pq,p^2+q^2)$.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:51
Better pay attention to the search for solutions Diofantos equation of the form: $aX^2+bXY+cY^2=jZ^2$
â individ
Oct 9 '14 at 17:47
2
2
I've done a writeup on a geometric mechanism of traversing this tree here. The exact formula is $(abs(p-2q),q)text or (q,abs(p-2q))$, assuming you are able to resolve $(a,b,c)$ to the $p,q$ generating pair.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:43
I've done a writeup on a geometric mechanism of traversing this tree here. The exact formula is $(abs(p-2q),q)text or (q,abs(p-2q))$, assuming you are able to resolve $(a,b,c)$ to the $p,q$ generating pair.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:43
1
1
This formula is derived directly from the reverse-direction three-way formula $(p+2q,q), (2p+q,p), (2p-q,p)$. In all these formulas, we have $(a,b,c)=(p^2-q^2,2pq,p^2+q^2)$.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:51
This formula is derived directly from the reverse-direction three-way formula $(p+2q,q), (2p+q,p), (2p-q,p)$. In all these formulas, we have $(a,b,c)=(p^2-q^2,2pq,p^2+q^2)$.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:51
Better pay attention to the search for solutions Diofantos equation of the form: $aX^2+bXY+cY^2=jZ^2$
â individ
Oct 9 '14 at 17:47
Better pay attention to the search for solutions Diofantos equation of the form: $aX^2+bXY+cY^2=jZ^2$
â individ
Oct 9 '14 at 17:47
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
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up vote
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Starting with $(165,52,173)$, we attempt to find the $p,q$ pair which generates this triple, i.e., $p^2-q^2=165,2pq=52,p^2+q^2=173$. Clearly, we have $2q^2=173-165=8implies q=2$ and thus $p=13$.
The ancestor of this triple arises from $(|p-2q|,q)text or (q,|p-2q|)$, whichever places $p',q'$ in largest-to-smallest order. In this case, we have $p-2q=9$ and thus the ancestor pair is $(p',q')=(9,2)$ and therefore the ancestor triple is $(p'^2-q'^2,2p'q',p'^2+q'^2)=(77,36,85)$.
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:54
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
You can use the matrix transformations found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulas_for_generating_Pythagorean_triples#Pythagorean_triples_by_use_of_matrices_and_linear_transformations
to ascend the tree of triples. To decend, just use the inverse matrices (which look similar except for some signs being flipped). You can try each inverse in turn but, in fact, you only need use any of the three inverses. If it was not the correct one (meaning not the one used to ascend to the current triple), you will get the ancestor triple anyway, only some of the lengths will be negative. So just take the absolute value and you're done.
For example
$$left(beginarray[ccc]11 & 2 & 2 \ 2 & 1 & 2 \ 2 & 2 & 3endarrayright)^-1.left(beginarray[c]1165\ 52\173endarrayright) = left(beginarray[ccc]11 & 2 & -2 \ 2 & 1 & -2 \ -2 & -2 & 3endarrayright).left(beginarray[c]1165\ 52\173endarrayright) = left(beginarray[c] 0-77 \ 36\85endarrayright) $$
If we start with an [indeterminate] triple $(a,b,c)$, is there a single expression in [polynomials of?] $a,b,c$ that we can use to represent the fundamental $(3,4,5)$?
â Kieren MacMillan
Oct 12 '14 at 1:23
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:55
@KierenMacMillan A formula would then be: Use the matrix multiply and then take the absolute value. This is what you're asking for unless I'm misunderstanding.
â amcalde
Aug 19 '16 at 0:14
1
@KierenMacMillan: I can't say that I have much experience with such a venture, but it sounds interesting. I'll see what I can come up with.
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:06
1
@KierenMacMillan: by the given design of that example, you seem to be saying that although there are numbers supplied as $(a,b,c)$ in a triple, they may not necessarily be a Pythagorean Triple for a given $x,y$, is that right? And following that logic, we would prove that there are no Pythagorean Triples arising from the specified formulas...
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:10
 |Â
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up vote
2
down vote
Two Trees of Pythagorean triples are known to exist (Berggren's and Price's), so to answer your question you need to first identify which one you are talking about. Descent/Ascent algorithms for both trees are given the following paper.
Bernhart, F.R. & Price, H.L. Pythagorasâ garden, revisited. Aust. Sr. Math. J. 26, 29âÂÂ40 (2012). http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ992372.pdf.
It seems there are at least three trees of Pythagorean triples (cf. McCullough). I'm hoping one of them â or some other one I don't know about â allows a descent without sign changes.
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 19 '16 at 1:28
F.J.M. Barning (1963) rediscovered the same tree Berggren had found in 1934. McCullough didn't know about Berggren, and he refers to that tree as the "Barning tree" so I don't think a third tree can be attributed to McCullough.
â KYZYL
Aug 20 '16 at 2:45
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1
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I am coming to this question a bit late. In the orthogonal group of the quadratic form $x^2+y^2-z^2$ there is a reflection you can use to find the parent of each primitive Pythagorean triple (up to sign, as others have noted, and changing signs to make all coordinates positive is another reflection). See Examples 3.2 and 3.3, and the proof of Corollary 3.4, in https://www.math.uconn.edu/~kconrad/blurbs/linmultialg/descentPythag.pdf. The key reflection $s_123$ is defined in equation (3.3) there.
This description using a geometric language (in an orthogonal group that is not the standard orthogonal group of 3-dimensional space) does not rely directly on the parametrization formula for primitive Pythagorean triples.
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Starting with $(165,52,173)$, we attempt to find the $p,q$ pair which generates this triple, i.e., $p^2-q^2=165,2pq=52,p^2+q^2=173$. Clearly, we have $2q^2=173-165=8implies q=2$ and thus $p=13$.
The ancestor of this triple arises from $(|p-2q|,q)text or (q,|p-2q|)$, whichever places $p',q'$ in largest-to-smallest order. In this case, we have $p-2q=9$ and thus the ancestor pair is $(p',q')=(9,2)$ and therefore the ancestor triple is $(p'^2-q'^2,2p'q',p'^2+q'^2)=(77,36,85)$.
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:54
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Starting with $(165,52,173)$, we attempt to find the $p,q$ pair which generates this triple, i.e., $p^2-q^2=165,2pq=52,p^2+q^2=173$. Clearly, we have $2q^2=173-165=8implies q=2$ and thus $p=13$.
The ancestor of this triple arises from $(|p-2q|,q)text or (q,|p-2q|)$, whichever places $p',q'$ in largest-to-smallest order. In this case, we have $p-2q=9$ and thus the ancestor pair is $(p',q')=(9,2)$ and therefore the ancestor triple is $(p'^2-q'^2,2p'q',p'^2+q'^2)=(77,36,85)$.
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:54
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Starting with $(165,52,173)$, we attempt to find the $p,q$ pair which generates this triple, i.e., $p^2-q^2=165,2pq=52,p^2+q^2=173$. Clearly, we have $2q^2=173-165=8implies q=2$ and thus $p=13$.
The ancestor of this triple arises from $(|p-2q|,q)text or (q,|p-2q|)$, whichever places $p',q'$ in largest-to-smallest order. In this case, we have $p-2q=9$ and thus the ancestor pair is $(p',q')=(9,2)$ and therefore the ancestor triple is $(p'^2-q'^2,2p'q',p'^2+q'^2)=(77,36,85)$.
Starting with $(165,52,173)$, we attempt to find the $p,q$ pair which generates this triple, i.e., $p^2-q^2=165,2pq=52,p^2+q^2=173$. Clearly, we have $2q^2=173-165=8implies q=2$ and thus $p=13$.
The ancestor of this triple arises from $(|p-2q|,q)text or (q,|p-2q|)$, whichever places $p',q'$ in largest-to-smallest order. In this case, we have $p-2q=9$ and thus the ancestor pair is $(p',q')=(9,2)$ and therefore the ancestor triple is $(p'^2-q'^2,2p'q',p'^2+q'^2)=(77,36,85)$.
answered Oct 9 '14 at 17:05
abiessu
6,62721540
6,62721540
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:54
add a comment |Â
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:54
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:54
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:54
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
You can use the matrix transformations found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulas_for_generating_Pythagorean_triples#Pythagorean_triples_by_use_of_matrices_and_linear_transformations
to ascend the tree of triples. To decend, just use the inverse matrices (which look similar except for some signs being flipped). You can try each inverse in turn but, in fact, you only need use any of the three inverses. If it was not the correct one (meaning not the one used to ascend to the current triple), you will get the ancestor triple anyway, only some of the lengths will be negative. So just take the absolute value and you're done.
For example
$$left(beginarray[ccc]11 & 2 & 2 \ 2 & 1 & 2 \ 2 & 2 & 3endarrayright)^-1.left(beginarray[c]1165\ 52\173endarrayright) = left(beginarray[ccc]11 & 2 & -2 \ 2 & 1 & -2 \ -2 & -2 & 3endarrayright).left(beginarray[c]1165\ 52\173endarrayright) = left(beginarray[c] 0-77 \ 36\85endarrayright) $$
If we start with an [indeterminate] triple $(a,b,c)$, is there a single expression in [polynomials of?] $a,b,c$ that we can use to represent the fundamental $(3,4,5)$?
â Kieren MacMillan
Oct 12 '14 at 1:23
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:55
@KierenMacMillan A formula would then be: Use the matrix multiply and then take the absolute value. This is what you're asking for unless I'm misunderstanding.
â amcalde
Aug 19 '16 at 0:14
1
@KierenMacMillan: I can't say that I have much experience with such a venture, but it sounds interesting. I'll see what I can come up with.
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:06
1
@KierenMacMillan: by the given design of that example, you seem to be saying that although there are numbers supplied as $(a,b,c)$ in a triple, they may not necessarily be a Pythagorean Triple for a given $x,y$, is that right? And following that logic, we would prove that there are no Pythagorean Triples arising from the specified formulas...
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:10
 |Â
show 7 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
You can use the matrix transformations found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulas_for_generating_Pythagorean_triples#Pythagorean_triples_by_use_of_matrices_and_linear_transformations
to ascend the tree of triples. To decend, just use the inverse matrices (which look similar except for some signs being flipped). You can try each inverse in turn but, in fact, you only need use any of the three inverses. If it was not the correct one (meaning not the one used to ascend to the current triple), you will get the ancestor triple anyway, only some of the lengths will be negative. So just take the absolute value and you're done.
For example
$$left(beginarray[ccc]11 & 2 & 2 \ 2 & 1 & 2 \ 2 & 2 & 3endarrayright)^-1.left(beginarray[c]1165\ 52\173endarrayright) = left(beginarray[ccc]11 & 2 & -2 \ 2 & 1 & -2 \ -2 & -2 & 3endarrayright).left(beginarray[c]1165\ 52\173endarrayright) = left(beginarray[c] 0-77 \ 36\85endarrayright) $$
If we start with an [indeterminate] triple $(a,b,c)$, is there a single expression in [polynomials of?] $a,b,c$ that we can use to represent the fundamental $(3,4,5)$?
â Kieren MacMillan
Oct 12 '14 at 1:23
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:55
@KierenMacMillan A formula would then be: Use the matrix multiply and then take the absolute value. This is what you're asking for unless I'm misunderstanding.
â amcalde
Aug 19 '16 at 0:14
1
@KierenMacMillan: I can't say that I have much experience with such a venture, but it sounds interesting. I'll see what I can come up with.
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:06
1
@KierenMacMillan: by the given design of that example, you seem to be saying that although there are numbers supplied as $(a,b,c)$ in a triple, they may not necessarily be a Pythagorean Triple for a given $x,y$, is that right? And following that logic, we would prove that there are no Pythagorean Triples arising from the specified formulas...
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:10
 |Â
show 7 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
You can use the matrix transformations found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulas_for_generating_Pythagorean_triples#Pythagorean_triples_by_use_of_matrices_and_linear_transformations
to ascend the tree of triples. To decend, just use the inverse matrices (which look similar except for some signs being flipped). You can try each inverse in turn but, in fact, you only need use any of the three inverses. If it was not the correct one (meaning not the one used to ascend to the current triple), you will get the ancestor triple anyway, only some of the lengths will be negative. So just take the absolute value and you're done.
For example
$$left(beginarray[ccc]11 & 2 & 2 \ 2 & 1 & 2 \ 2 & 2 & 3endarrayright)^-1.left(beginarray[c]1165\ 52\173endarrayright) = left(beginarray[ccc]11 & 2 & -2 \ 2 & 1 & -2 \ -2 & -2 & 3endarrayright).left(beginarray[c]1165\ 52\173endarrayright) = left(beginarray[c] 0-77 \ 36\85endarrayright) $$
You can use the matrix transformations found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formulas_for_generating_Pythagorean_triples#Pythagorean_triples_by_use_of_matrices_and_linear_transformations
to ascend the tree of triples. To decend, just use the inverse matrices (which look similar except for some signs being flipped). You can try each inverse in turn but, in fact, you only need use any of the three inverses. If it was not the correct one (meaning not the one used to ascend to the current triple), you will get the ancestor triple anyway, only some of the lengths will be negative. So just take the absolute value and you're done.
For example
$$left(beginarray[ccc]11 & 2 & 2 \ 2 & 1 & 2 \ 2 & 2 & 3endarrayright)^-1.left(beginarray[c]1165\ 52\173endarrayright) = left(beginarray[ccc]11 & 2 & -2 \ 2 & 1 & -2 \ -2 & -2 & 3endarrayright).left(beginarray[c]1165\ 52\173endarrayright) = left(beginarray[c] 0-77 \ 36\85endarrayright) $$
edited Oct 9 '14 at 14:41
answered Oct 9 '14 at 14:12
amcalde
3,826831
3,826831
If we start with an [indeterminate] triple $(a,b,c)$, is there a single expression in [polynomials of?] $a,b,c$ that we can use to represent the fundamental $(3,4,5)$?
â Kieren MacMillan
Oct 12 '14 at 1:23
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:55
@KierenMacMillan A formula would then be: Use the matrix multiply and then take the absolute value. This is what you're asking for unless I'm misunderstanding.
â amcalde
Aug 19 '16 at 0:14
1
@KierenMacMillan: I can't say that I have much experience with such a venture, but it sounds interesting. I'll see what I can come up with.
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:06
1
@KierenMacMillan: by the given design of that example, you seem to be saying that although there are numbers supplied as $(a,b,c)$ in a triple, they may not necessarily be a Pythagorean Triple for a given $x,y$, is that right? And following that logic, we would prove that there are no Pythagorean Triples arising from the specified formulas...
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:10
 |Â
show 7 more comments
If we start with an [indeterminate] triple $(a,b,c)$, is there a single expression in [polynomials of?] $a,b,c$ that we can use to represent the fundamental $(3,4,5)$?
â Kieren MacMillan
Oct 12 '14 at 1:23
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:55
@KierenMacMillan A formula would then be: Use the matrix multiply and then take the absolute value. This is what you're asking for unless I'm misunderstanding.
â amcalde
Aug 19 '16 at 0:14
1
@KierenMacMillan: I can't say that I have much experience with such a venture, but it sounds interesting. I'll see what I can come up with.
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:06
1
@KierenMacMillan: by the given design of that example, you seem to be saying that although there are numbers supplied as $(a,b,c)$ in a triple, they may not necessarily be a Pythagorean Triple for a given $x,y$, is that right? And following that logic, we would prove that there are no Pythagorean Triples arising from the specified formulas...
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:10
If we start with an [indeterminate] triple $(a,b,c)$, is there a single expression in [polynomials of?] $a,b,c$ that we can use to represent the fundamental $(3,4,5)$?
â Kieren MacMillan
Oct 12 '14 at 1:23
If we start with an [indeterminate] triple $(a,b,c)$, is there a single expression in [polynomials of?] $a,b,c$ that we can use to represent the fundamental $(3,4,5)$?
â Kieren MacMillan
Oct 12 '14 at 1:23
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:55
Is it not possible to avoid the sign issue? i.e., Is there no formula which can take any Pythagorean triple of positive integers $(a_n,b_n,c_n)$ and give its âÂÂancestorâ triple $(a_n-1,b_n-1,c_n-1)$ with all three elements positive?
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 18 '16 at 23:55
@KierenMacMillan A formula would then be: Use the matrix multiply and then take the absolute value. This is what you're asking for unless I'm misunderstanding.
â amcalde
Aug 19 '16 at 0:14
@KierenMacMillan A formula would then be: Use the matrix multiply and then take the absolute value. This is what you're asking for unless I'm misunderstanding.
â amcalde
Aug 19 '16 at 0:14
1
1
@KierenMacMillan: I can't say that I have much experience with such a venture, but it sounds interesting. I'll see what I can come up with.
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:06
@KierenMacMillan: I can't say that I have much experience with such a venture, but it sounds interesting. I'll see what I can come up with.
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:06
1
1
@KierenMacMillan: by the given design of that example, you seem to be saying that although there are numbers supplied as $(a,b,c)$ in a triple, they may not necessarily be a Pythagorean Triple for a given $x,y$, is that right? And following that logic, we would prove that there are no Pythagorean Triples arising from the specified formulas...
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:10
@KierenMacMillan: by the given design of that example, you seem to be saying that although there are numbers supplied as $(a,b,c)$ in a triple, they may not necessarily be a Pythagorean Triple for a given $x,y$, is that right? And following that logic, we would prove that there are no Pythagorean Triples arising from the specified formulas...
â abiessu
Aug 19 '16 at 14:10
 |Â
show 7 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
Two Trees of Pythagorean triples are known to exist (Berggren's and Price's), so to answer your question you need to first identify which one you are talking about. Descent/Ascent algorithms for both trees are given the following paper.
Bernhart, F.R. & Price, H.L. Pythagorasâ garden, revisited. Aust. Sr. Math. J. 26, 29âÂÂ40 (2012). http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ992372.pdf.
It seems there are at least three trees of Pythagorean triples (cf. McCullough). I'm hoping one of them â or some other one I don't know about â allows a descent without sign changes.
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 19 '16 at 1:28
F.J.M. Barning (1963) rediscovered the same tree Berggren had found in 1934. McCullough didn't know about Berggren, and he refers to that tree as the "Barning tree" so I don't think a third tree can be attributed to McCullough.
â KYZYL
Aug 20 '16 at 2:45
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Two Trees of Pythagorean triples are known to exist (Berggren's and Price's), so to answer your question you need to first identify which one you are talking about. Descent/Ascent algorithms for both trees are given the following paper.
Bernhart, F.R. & Price, H.L. Pythagorasâ garden, revisited. Aust. Sr. Math. J. 26, 29âÂÂ40 (2012). http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ992372.pdf.
It seems there are at least three trees of Pythagorean triples (cf. McCullough). I'm hoping one of them â or some other one I don't know about â allows a descent without sign changes.
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 19 '16 at 1:28
F.J.M. Barning (1963) rediscovered the same tree Berggren had found in 1934. McCullough didn't know about Berggren, and he refers to that tree as the "Barning tree" so I don't think a third tree can be attributed to McCullough.
â KYZYL
Aug 20 '16 at 2:45
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Two Trees of Pythagorean triples are known to exist (Berggren's and Price's), so to answer your question you need to first identify which one you are talking about. Descent/Ascent algorithms for both trees are given the following paper.
Bernhart, F.R. & Price, H.L. Pythagorasâ garden, revisited. Aust. Sr. Math. J. 26, 29âÂÂ40 (2012). http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ992372.pdf.
Two Trees of Pythagorean triples are known to exist (Berggren's and Price's), so to answer your question you need to first identify which one you are talking about. Descent/Ascent algorithms for both trees are given the following paper.
Bernhart, F.R. & Price, H.L. Pythagorasâ garden, revisited. Aust. Sr. Math. J. 26, 29âÂÂ40 (2012). http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ992372.pdf.
answered Feb 18 '15 at 21:01
KYZYL
736
736
It seems there are at least three trees of Pythagorean triples (cf. McCullough). I'm hoping one of them â or some other one I don't know about â allows a descent without sign changes.
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 19 '16 at 1:28
F.J.M. Barning (1963) rediscovered the same tree Berggren had found in 1934. McCullough didn't know about Berggren, and he refers to that tree as the "Barning tree" so I don't think a third tree can be attributed to McCullough.
â KYZYL
Aug 20 '16 at 2:45
add a comment |Â
It seems there are at least three trees of Pythagorean triples (cf. McCullough). I'm hoping one of them â or some other one I don't know about â allows a descent without sign changes.
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 19 '16 at 1:28
F.J.M. Barning (1963) rediscovered the same tree Berggren had found in 1934. McCullough didn't know about Berggren, and he refers to that tree as the "Barning tree" so I don't think a third tree can be attributed to McCullough.
â KYZYL
Aug 20 '16 at 2:45
It seems there are at least three trees of Pythagorean triples (cf. McCullough). I'm hoping one of them â or some other one I don't know about â allows a descent without sign changes.
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 19 '16 at 1:28
It seems there are at least three trees of Pythagorean triples (cf. McCullough). I'm hoping one of them â or some other one I don't know about â allows a descent without sign changes.
â Kieren MacMillan
Aug 19 '16 at 1:28
F.J.M. Barning (1963) rediscovered the same tree Berggren had found in 1934. McCullough didn't know about Berggren, and he refers to that tree as the "Barning tree" so I don't think a third tree can be attributed to McCullough.
â KYZYL
Aug 20 '16 at 2:45
F.J.M. Barning (1963) rediscovered the same tree Berggren had found in 1934. McCullough didn't know about Berggren, and he refers to that tree as the "Barning tree" so I don't think a third tree can be attributed to McCullough.
â KYZYL
Aug 20 '16 at 2:45
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I am coming to this question a bit late. In the orthogonal group of the quadratic form $x^2+y^2-z^2$ there is a reflection you can use to find the parent of each primitive Pythagorean triple (up to sign, as others have noted, and changing signs to make all coordinates positive is another reflection). See Examples 3.2 and 3.3, and the proof of Corollary 3.4, in https://www.math.uconn.edu/~kconrad/blurbs/linmultialg/descentPythag.pdf. The key reflection $s_123$ is defined in equation (3.3) there.
This description using a geometric language (in an orthogonal group that is not the standard orthogonal group of 3-dimensional space) does not rely directly on the parametrization formula for primitive Pythagorean triples.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I am coming to this question a bit late. In the orthogonal group of the quadratic form $x^2+y^2-z^2$ there is a reflection you can use to find the parent of each primitive Pythagorean triple (up to sign, as others have noted, and changing signs to make all coordinates positive is another reflection). See Examples 3.2 and 3.3, and the proof of Corollary 3.4, in https://www.math.uconn.edu/~kconrad/blurbs/linmultialg/descentPythag.pdf. The key reflection $s_123$ is defined in equation (3.3) there.
This description using a geometric language (in an orthogonal group that is not the standard orthogonal group of 3-dimensional space) does not rely directly on the parametrization formula for primitive Pythagorean triples.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
I am coming to this question a bit late. In the orthogonal group of the quadratic form $x^2+y^2-z^2$ there is a reflection you can use to find the parent of each primitive Pythagorean triple (up to sign, as others have noted, and changing signs to make all coordinates positive is another reflection). See Examples 3.2 and 3.3, and the proof of Corollary 3.4, in https://www.math.uconn.edu/~kconrad/blurbs/linmultialg/descentPythag.pdf. The key reflection $s_123$ is defined in equation (3.3) there.
This description using a geometric language (in an orthogonal group that is not the standard orthogonal group of 3-dimensional space) does not rely directly on the parametrization formula for primitive Pythagorean triples.
I am coming to this question a bit late. In the orthogonal group of the quadratic form $x^2+y^2-z^2$ there is a reflection you can use to find the parent of each primitive Pythagorean triple (up to sign, as others have noted, and changing signs to make all coordinates positive is another reflection). See Examples 3.2 and 3.3, and the proof of Corollary 3.4, in https://www.math.uconn.edu/~kconrad/blurbs/linmultialg/descentPythag.pdf. The key reflection $s_123$ is defined in equation (3.3) there.
This description using a geometric language (in an orthogonal group that is not the standard orthogonal group of 3-dimensional space) does not rely directly on the parametrization formula for primitive Pythagorean triples.
edited Aug 14 at 0:26
answered Aug 1 at 9:58
KCd
16.3k3872
16.3k3872
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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2
I've done a writeup on a geometric mechanism of traversing this tree here. The exact formula is $(abs(p-2q),q)text or (q,abs(p-2q))$, assuming you are able to resolve $(a,b,c)$ to the $p,q$ generating pair.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:43
1
This formula is derived directly from the reverse-direction three-way formula $(p+2q,q), (2p+q,p), (2p-q,p)$. In all these formulas, we have $(a,b,c)=(p^2-q^2,2pq,p^2+q^2)$.
â abiessu
Oct 9 '14 at 14:51
Better pay attention to the search for solutions Diofantos equation of the form: $aX^2+bXY+cY^2=jZ^2$
â individ
Oct 9 '14 at 17:47