Does Pi contain all possible number combinations?
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I came across the following image:
Which states:
$pi$ Pi
Pi is an infinite, nonrepeating $($sic$)$ decimal - meaning that
every possible number combination exists somewhere in pi. Converted
into ASCII text, somewhere in that infinite string if digits is the
name of every person you will ever love, the date, time and manner of
your death, and the answers to all the great questions of the
universe.
Is this true? Does it make absolutely any sense ?
number-theory irrational-numbers pi
 |Â
show 10 more comments
up vote
552
down vote
favorite
I came across the following image:
Which states:
$pi$ Pi
Pi is an infinite, nonrepeating $($sic$)$ decimal - meaning that
every possible number combination exists somewhere in pi. Converted
into ASCII text, somewhere in that infinite string if digits is the
name of every person you will ever love, the date, time and manner of
your death, and the answers to all the great questions of the
universe.
Is this true? Does it make absolutely any sense ?
number-theory irrational-numbers pi
61
This is unknown. All that is known about $pi$ is that it is transcendental. askamathematician.com/2009/11/â¦
â picakhu
Oct 18 '12 at 14:38
15
This is the assertion that $pi$ is base $8$ normal. Whether it is true is not known. But it is known that "most" numbers are normal to every base.
â André Nicolas
Oct 18 '12 at 14:40
73
It's not just the assertion that $pi$ is normal. It also asserts that it is normal because its expansions is infinite and nonrepeating. And that's just plain false.
â Chris Eagle
Oct 18 '12 at 14:41
35
What is certain, is that the 94 first digits of pi do indeed contain the answer to all the great questions of the universe
â mivk
Oct 18 '12 at 15:36
16
The assertion is strictly weaker than normality. It only says each string occurs once. This implies infinitely many occurrences but not equidistribution.
â Erick Wong
Oct 18 '12 at 17:44
 |Â
show 10 more comments
up vote
552
down vote
favorite
up vote
552
down vote
favorite
I came across the following image:
Which states:
$pi$ Pi
Pi is an infinite, nonrepeating $($sic$)$ decimal - meaning that
every possible number combination exists somewhere in pi. Converted
into ASCII text, somewhere in that infinite string if digits is the
name of every person you will ever love, the date, time and manner of
your death, and the answers to all the great questions of the
universe.
Is this true? Does it make absolutely any sense ?
number-theory irrational-numbers pi
I came across the following image:
Which states:
$pi$ Pi
Pi is an infinite, nonrepeating $($sic$)$ decimal - meaning that
every possible number combination exists somewhere in pi. Converted
into ASCII text, somewhere in that infinite string if digits is the
name of every person you will ever love, the date, time and manner of
your death, and the answers to all the great questions of the
universe.
Is this true? Does it make absolutely any sense ?
number-theory irrational-numbers pi
edited Aug 7 at 19:09
PerpetualJ
1306
1306
asked Oct 18 '12 at 14:35
Chani
2,92231112
2,92231112
61
This is unknown. All that is known about $pi$ is that it is transcendental. askamathematician.com/2009/11/â¦
â picakhu
Oct 18 '12 at 14:38
15
This is the assertion that $pi$ is base $8$ normal. Whether it is true is not known. But it is known that "most" numbers are normal to every base.
â André Nicolas
Oct 18 '12 at 14:40
73
It's not just the assertion that $pi$ is normal. It also asserts that it is normal because its expansions is infinite and nonrepeating. And that's just plain false.
â Chris Eagle
Oct 18 '12 at 14:41
35
What is certain, is that the 94 first digits of pi do indeed contain the answer to all the great questions of the universe
â mivk
Oct 18 '12 at 15:36
16
The assertion is strictly weaker than normality. It only says each string occurs once. This implies infinitely many occurrences but not equidistribution.
â Erick Wong
Oct 18 '12 at 17:44
 |Â
show 10 more comments
61
This is unknown. All that is known about $pi$ is that it is transcendental. askamathematician.com/2009/11/â¦
â picakhu
Oct 18 '12 at 14:38
15
This is the assertion that $pi$ is base $8$ normal. Whether it is true is not known. But it is known that "most" numbers are normal to every base.
â André Nicolas
Oct 18 '12 at 14:40
73
It's not just the assertion that $pi$ is normal. It also asserts that it is normal because its expansions is infinite and nonrepeating. And that's just plain false.
â Chris Eagle
Oct 18 '12 at 14:41
35
What is certain, is that the 94 first digits of pi do indeed contain the answer to all the great questions of the universe
â mivk
Oct 18 '12 at 15:36
16
The assertion is strictly weaker than normality. It only says each string occurs once. This implies infinitely many occurrences but not equidistribution.
â Erick Wong
Oct 18 '12 at 17:44
61
61
This is unknown. All that is known about $pi$ is that it is transcendental. askamathematician.com/2009/11/â¦
â picakhu
Oct 18 '12 at 14:38
This is unknown. All that is known about $pi$ is that it is transcendental. askamathematician.com/2009/11/â¦
â picakhu
Oct 18 '12 at 14:38
15
15
This is the assertion that $pi$ is base $8$ normal. Whether it is true is not known. But it is known that "most" numbers are normal to every base.
â André Nicolas
Oct 18 '12 at 14:40
This is the assertion that $pi$ is base $8$ normal. Whether it is true is not known. But it is known that "most" numbers are normal to every base.
â André Nicolas
Oct 18 '12 at 14:40
73
73
It's not just the assertion that $pi$ is normal. It also asserts that it is normal because its expansions is infinite and nonrepeating. And that's just plain false.
â Chris Eagle
Oct 18 '12 at 14:41
It's not just the assertion that $pi$ is normal. It also asserts that it is normal because its expansions is infinite and nonrepeating. And that's just plain false.
â Chris Eagle
Oct 18 '12 at 14:41
35
35
What is certain, is that the 94 first digits of pi do indeed contain the answer to all the great questions of the universe
â mivk
Oct 18 '12 at 15:36
What is certain, is that the 94 first digits of pi do indeed contain the answer to all the great questions of the universe
â mivk
Oct 18 '12 at 15:36
16
16
The assertion is strictly weaker than normality. It only says each string occurs once. This implies infinitely many occurrences but not equidistribution.
â Erick Wong
Oct 18 '12 at 17:44
The assertion is strictly weaker than normality. It only says each string occurs once. This implies infinitely many occurrences but not equidistribution.
â Erick Wong
Oct 18 '12 at 17:44
 |Â
show 10 more comments
14 Answers
14
active
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up vote
637
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accepted
It is not true that an infinite, non-repeating decimal must contain âÂÂevery possible number combinationâÂÂ. The decimal $0.011000111100000111111dots$ is an easy counterexample. However, if the decimal expansion of $pi$ contains every possible finite string of digits, which seems quite likely, then the rest of the statement is indeed correct. Of course, in that case it also contains numerical equivalents of every book that will never be written, among other things.
505
I'll bet this answer is in there too.
â AccidentallyObtuse
Oct 19 '12 at 2:02
6
@makerofthings7: Yes, a representation of the entire internet would be in there too. Every representation, in fact.
â BlueRaja - Danny Pflughoeft
Oct 19 '12 at 2:34
61
Why does it seem likely, that the decimal expansion of ÃÂ contains every possible finite string of digits?
â Alex
Oct 19 '12 at 9:53
44
@Alex: there's no particular reason for the digits of $pi$ to have any special pattern to them, so mathematicians expect that the digits of $pi$ more or less "behave randomly," and a random sequence of digits contains every possible finite string of digits with probability $1$ by Borel's normal number theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_number#Properties_and_examples
â Qiaochu Yuan
Oct 19 '12 at 16:52
9
@Mariano: Oh, thereâÂÂs a book that someone ought to write: Borges in Asgard! :-)
â Brian M. Scott
Oct 21 '12 at 9:45
 |Â
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415
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Let me summarize the things that have been said which are true and add one more thing.
- $pi$ is not known to have this property, but it is expected to be true.
- This property does not follow from the fact that the decimal expansion of $pi$ is infinite and does not repeat.
The one more thing is the following. The assertion that the answer to every question you could possibly want to ask is contained somewhere in the digits of $pi$ may be true, but it's useless. Here is a string which may make this point clearer: just string together every possible sentence in English, first by length and then by alphabetical order. The resulting string contains the answer to every question you could possibly want to ask, but
- most of what it contains is garbage,
- you have no way of knowing what is and isn't garbage a priori, and
- the only way to refer to a part of the string that isn't garbage is to describe its position in the string, and the bits required to do this themselves constitute a (terrible) encoding of the string. So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself (that is, finding the answer to whatever question you wanted to ask).
In other words, a string which contains everything contains nothing. Useful communication is useful because of what it does not contain.
You should keep all of the above in mind and then read Jorge Luis Borges' The Library of Babel. (A library which contains every book contains no books.)
13
Nice reference! That's a fun read.
â Manny Reyes
Oct 18 '12 at 22:47
15
"So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself" - indeed, rather harder: if I know how long a message is, I have an upper bound on the inormation contained in the encoding. But I have no upper bound on the information needed to represent the index into any given normal number.
â Charles Stewart
Oct 19 '12 at 12:06
6
What if you layout all the sentences in order of usefulness? :P
â naught101
Oct 21 '12 at 5:55
2
@corsiKa: what I'm saying is that the location of a message in $pi$ is itself information, and that location doesn't come for free. Trying to communicate information by pointing to where it is in $pi$ constitutes an extremely inefficient encryption algorithm.
â Qiaochu Yuan
Dec 1 '12 at 3:16
1
@didibus Not really, because natural language satisfies a form of Turing-completeness: you could just say "The answer to problem X is, in binary, one one zero one ..." and proceed to give a binary encoding of a description of your "improved" language followed by an encoding of the message itself. Thus any other Turing-complete language can be delivered in English (and most other natural languages in use).
â Mario Carneiro
Feb 5 '14 at 14:13
 |Â
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197
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It is widely believed that $pi$ is a normal number. This (or even the weaker property of being disjunctive) implies that every possible string occurs somewhere in its expansion.
So yes, it has the story of your life -- but it also has many false stories, many subtly wrong statements, and lots of gibberish.
219
And you wouldn't believe the terrible spelling.
â Scott Rippey
Oct 18 '12 at 19:33
5
@SydKerckhove: It's normal in the sense that almost all numbers have this property. Numbers like 7 and 4/3 that lack this property are very rare indeed (though still infinite).
â Charles
Jan 30 '15 at 17:21
@Charles Errr.. It's normal in the sense that the digits are distributed uniformly.
â MickLH
Feb 17 '17 at 22:24
2
@MickLH But the reason that the property is called "normal" rather than, say, "weird" is that it occurs in a measure 1 subset of the reals.
â Charles
Feb 18 '17 at 1:33
I see what you're saying! thanks for clarifying
â MickLH
Feb 18 '17 at 1:35
add a comment |Â
up vote
91
down vote
According to Mathematica, when $pi$ is expressed in base 128 (whose digits can therefore be interpreted as ASCII characters),
"NO" appears at position 702;
"Yes" appears at position 303351.
Given (following Feynman in his Lectures on Physics) that any question $A$ with possible answer $A'$ (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is $A'$ a correct answer to $A$?", and that such questions have either "no" or "yes" answers, this proves the second sentence of the claim--and shows just how empty an assertion it is. (As others have remarked, the first sentence--depending on its interpretation--is either wrong or has unknown truth value.)
Code
pNO = FromCharacterCode[RealDigits[[Pi], 128, 710]];
pYes = FromCharacterCode[RealDigits[[Pi], 128, 303400]];
StringPosition[pNO, "NO"], StringPosition[pYes, "Yes"]
702, 703, , 303351, 303353,
3
Please advise: where does 'pi' or 'ÃÂ' occur?
â QED
Oct 19 '12 at 2:53
3
Special thanks to you sir, for your example !
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 4:58
2
Is it true 'that any question A with possible answer Aâ² (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is Aâ² a correct answer to A?"' Does that reduce the "all the great questions of the universe" to some inferior subset? I don't know, just asking.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 9:56
5
@LarsH That's a good question--but it starts to push us more into philosophy than mathematics. This re-expression of every great question as a yes-no question requires that you accept that every such question does have a definite answer and that you also accept the Law of the Excluded Middle.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 13:40
10
@Lars I was just riffing off Feynman, not quoting him. What he actually said is that there likely is a single equation describing all the laws of physics. As I recall, just collect all the basic equations of physical law (presumably finite in number), express them each in the form $u_i=0$, and then write $sum_i |u_i|^2 = 0$. This trivial re-expression of things that look complicated into something superficially looking much simpler was my motivation for arguing all the great questions of life can be made into yes-no questions.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 20:43
 |Â
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88
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This is an open question. It is not yet known if $pi$ is a normal number.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NormalNumber.html
5
or even disjunctive.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 19:57
add a comment |Â
up vote
47
down vote
Whether or not it's true, it's absolutely useless.
Imagine finding your life story: a copiously documented and flawless recounting of every day of your life... right up until yesterday where it states that you died and abruptly reverts back to gibberish. If pi truly contains every possible string, then that story is in there, too. Now, imagine if it said you die tomorrow. Would you believe it, or keep searching for the next copy of your life story?
The problem is that there is no structure to the information. It would take a herculean effort to process all of that data to get to the "correct" section, and immense wisdom to recognize it as correct. So if you were thinking of using pi as an oracle to determine these things, you might as well count every single atom that comprises planet Earth. That should serve as a nice warm up.
32
nb. if it is true, then you can justify any rambling, gibberish, or errors with the excuse, "I was just quoting pi".
â Dan Burton
Oct 18 '12 at 22:41
6
It has the use of getting people interested in mathematics (e.g. it motivated this question).
â Douglas S. Stones
Oct 19 '12 at 0:27
3
@DouglasS.Stones I agree, it does provoke interest in mathematics.
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 5:03
5
It would also take about the same amount of information to specify the location that an arbitrary string starts in pi at as the string contains.
â dan_waterworth
Oct 19 '12 at 8:05
6
I doubt anybody expects to get any information about their life from ÃÂ. It's just an interesting way to imagine infinity.
â redbmk
Oct 19 '12 at 17:22
 |Â
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34
down vote
In general it it not true that an "infinite non-repeating decimal" contains any sequence in it. Consider for example the number $0.01001000100001000001000000100000001...$.
However, it is not known if $pi$ does contain ever sequence.
It can't be known if ANY sequence contains all possible combinations of numbers, as that is infinite and unreachable.
â Supuhstar
Oct 21 '12 at 6:52
13
@Supuhstar unless the sequence is specifically defined with that in mind, like by concatenating numbers consecutively: $0.12345678910111213141516...$
â Robert Mastragostino
Oct 22 '12 at 16:47
add a comment |Â
up vote
31
down vote
This is False.
Claim: Infinite and Non-Repeating, therefore must have EVERY combination.
Counterexample:
01001100011100001111... This is infinite and non-repeating yet does not have every combination.
Just because something is infinite and non-repeating doesn't mean it has every combination.
Pi may indeed have every combination but you cant use this claim to say that it does.
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
I believe the statement could be worded more accurately. Given the reasonable assumption that PI is infinitely non repeating, it doesn't follow that it would actually incude any particular sequence.
Take this thought experiment as an analogy. Imagine you had to sit in a room for all eternity sayings words, without every ever uttering the same word twice. You would very soon find yourself saying very long words. But there's no logical reason why you should have to use up all the possible short words first. In fact you could systematically exclude the words "yes" or every word containing the letter "y", or any other arbitrary subset of the infinite set of possible words.
Same goes for digit sequences in PI. It's highly probably that any conceivable sequence can be found in PI if you calculate for long enough, but it's not guaranteed by the prescribed conditions.
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
Challenge accepted. In the following file are the first 1,048,576 digits (1 Megabyte) of pi (including the leading 3) converted to ANSI (with assistance from the algorithm described in https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12991606/):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9plORbvSu2ra1Atc0QwOGhYZms/edit
1
@MarkHurd someone should try running it :3
â Supuhstar
May 7 '16 at 15:16
1
someone already ran it
â Hernán Eche
Jul 22 '16 at 18:58
@HernánEche and?
â Supuhstar
Jul 22 '16 at 20:08
3
and.. we are the running code effects, living in a matrix-like universe simulation, encoded in pi.
â Hernán Eche
Jul 26 '16 at 12:43
Wilding say: "Joy" occurs thrice, and "sad" a whopping 11 times ! - it depends on the encoding, as they have 3 different letters there is a encoding such as sex is written 11 times and sad 3 so: the message depends on the messenger
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:48
add a comment |Â
up vote
19
down vote
And even if your statement is true with $pi$, it does not make $pi$ special. If we hit a real number at random, with probability $1$ we will hit a normal number. That is "almost all" real number is like that. The set of not-normal numbers have Lebesgue measure zero.
4
How do you know that the set of non-normal numbers is Lebesgue measurable?
â celtschk
Jul 12 '15 at 8:29
1
Please give a cite, or literature for that answer!!!!! It is a big deal to say something like that.
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:36
I found a cite for this result, but I can't say if it is acurete or not: math.boku.ac.at/udt/vol09/no2/06filsus.pdf
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 15:05
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
Yes and no. Yes, any non-repeating infinite sequence can be translated into an ascii representation of random gibberish, which will of course randomly contain everything. No, that isn't particularly amazing or useful, because whatever message you are looking for is also mistated and refuted an infinite number of times.
(For those that say that it isn't necessarily normal, that is unnecessary as the transformation into ascii can be as complex as you like in order to get the result you desire).
11
If you allow arbitrarily complex encodings, you get the same result with 0 as with pi.
â dhasenan
Oct 19 '12 at 18:49
1
@dhasenan: that's not complex, that is just eliminating the value you are supposedly encoding and replacing it with a non-repeating infinite sequence.
â jmoreno
Oct 21 '12 at 22:58
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
That image contains a number of factual errors, but the most important one is the misleading assertion that irrationality implies disjunctiveness.
One can easily construct an non-disjunctive, irrational number. Let $ r = sumlimits_n = 0^infty 2^-n begincases 1 & textif 2 | n \ s_n & textelse endcases $ for any non-periodic sequence $ s_n in 0,1 $.
It is not known whether $ pi $ is, in fact, disjunctive (or even normal).
add a comment |Â
up vote
-4
down vote
This question is more of probability and if this is true for $pi$ then it must also be true for $sqrt2%$ $sqrt3%$ etc. as they are also irrational.
It is also similar as saying that every person has a copy in some part of world which is totally probabilistic and cannot be proved
this is the exact answer it must be upvoted
â Abhishek
May 13 at 9:18
2
This is wrong. The number $0.1011011101111...$ which consists of strings of 1s of length $n$ for all positive integer $n$ separated by 0s definitely does not contain all possible sequences of digits but is irrational. This is not a probabilistic question, as numbers such as $pi$ are uniquely defined and not "random events" (whatever this would mean for numbers). What you are thinking of is normal numbers.
â Isky Mathews
May 13 at 14:44
your number is irrational but we can be sure that it contains only $0$'s and $1$'s but in$pi$ all digits occur and any combination may occur
â Abhishek
May 14 at 2:45
add a comment |Â
protected by Qiaochu Yuan Oct 18 '12 at 22:30
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14 Answers
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14 Answers
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oldest
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active
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active
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up vote
637
down vote
accepted
It is not true that an infinite, non-repeating decimal must contain âÂÂevery possible number combinationâÂÂ. The decimal $0.011000111100000111111dots$ is an easy counterexample. However, if the decimal expansion of $pi$ contains every possible finite string of digits, which seems quite likely, then the rest of the statement is indeed correct. Of course, in that case it also contains numerical equivalents of every book that will never be written, among other things.
505
I'll bet this answer is in there too.
â AccidentallyObtuse
Oct 19 '12 at 2:02
6
@makerofthings7: Yes, a representation of the entire internet would be in there too. Every representation, in fact.
â BlueRaja - Danny Pflughoeft
Oct 19 '12 at 2:34
61
Why does it seem likely, that the decimal expansion of ÃÂ contains every possible finite string of digits?
â Alex
Oct 19 '12 at 9:53
44
@Alex: there's no particular reason for the digits of $pi$ to have any special pattern to them, so mathematicians expect that the digits of $pi$ more or less "behave randomly," and a random sequence of digits contains every possible finite string of digits with probability $1$ by Borel's normal number theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_number#Properties_and_examples
â Qiaochu Yuan
Oct 19 '12 at 16:52
9
@Mariano: Oh, thereâÂÂs a book that someone ought to write: Borges in Asgard! :-)
â Brian M. Scott
Oct 21 '12 at 9:45
 |Â
show 8 more comments
up vote
637
down vote
accepted
It is not true that an infinite, non-repeating decimal must contain âÂÂevery possible number combinationâÂÂ. The decimal $0.011000111100000111111dots$ is an easy counterexample. However, if the decimal expansion of $pi$ contains every possible finite string of digits, which seems quite likely, then the rest of the statement is indeed correct. Of course, in that case it also contains numerical equivalents of every book that will never be written, among other things.
505
I'll bet this answer is in there too.
â AccidentallyObtuse
Oct 19 '12 at 2:02
6
@makerofthings7: Yes, a representation of the entire internet would be in there too. Every representation, in fact.
â BlueRaja - Danny Pflughoeft
Oct 19 '12 at 2:34
61
Why does it seem likely, that the decimal expansion of ÃÂ contains every possible finite string of digits?
â Alex
Oct 19 '12 at 9:53
44
@Alex: there's no particular reason for the digits of $pi$ to have any special pattern to them, so mathematicians expect that the digits of $pi$ more or less "behave randomly," and a random sequence of digits contains every possible finite string of digits with probability $1$ by Borel's normal number theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_number#Properties_and_examples
â Qiaochu Yuan
Oct 19 '12 at 16:52
9
@Mariano: Oh, thereâÂÂs a book that someone ought to write: Borges in Asgard! :-)
â Brian M. Scott
Oct 21 '12 at 9:45
 |Â
show 8 more comments
up vote
637
down vote
accepted
up vote
637
down vote
accepted
It is not true that an infinite, non-repeating decimal must contain âÂÂevery possible number combinationâÂÂ. The decimal $0.011000111100000111111dots$ is an easy counterexample. However, if the decimal expansion of $pi$ contains every possible finite string of digits, which seems quite likely, then the rest of the statement is indeed correct. Of course, in that case it also contains numerical equivalents of every book that will never be written, among other things.
It is not true that an infinite, non-repeating decimal must contain âÂÂevery possible number combinationâÂÂ. The decimal $0.011000111100000111111dots$ is an easy counterexample. However, if the decimal expansion of $pi$ contains every possible finite string of digits, which seems quite likely, then the rest of the statement is indeed correct. Of course, in that case it also contains numerical equivalents of every book that will never be written, among other things.
answered Oct 18 '12 at 14:40
Brian M. Scott
448k39492879
448k39492879
505
I'll bet this answer is in there too.
â AccidentallyObtuse
Oct 19 '12 at 2:02
6
@makerofthings7: Yes, a representation of the entire internet would be in there too. Every representation, in fact.
â BlueRaja - Danny Pflughoeft
Oct 19 '12 at 2:34
61
Why does it seem likely, that the decimal expansion of ÃÂ contains every possible finite string of digits?
â Alex
Oct 19 '12 at 9:53
44
@Alex: there's no particular reason for the digits of $pi$ to have any special pattern to them, so mathematicians expect that the digits of $pi$ more or less "behave randomly," and a random sequence of digits contains every possible finite string of digits with probability $1$ by Borel's normal number theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_number#Properties_and_examples
â Qiaochu Yuan
Oct 19 '12 at 16:52
9
@Mariano: Oh, thereâÂÂs a book that someone ought to write: Borges in Asgard! :-)
â Brian M. Scott
Oct 21 '12 at 9:45
 |Â
show 8 more comments
505
I'll bet this answer is in there too.
â AccidentallyObtuse
Oct 19 '12 at 2:02
6
@makerofthings7: Yes, a representation of the entire internet would be in there too. Every representation, in fact.
â BlueRaja - Danny Pflughoeft
Oct 19 '12 at 2:34
61
Why does it seem likely, that the decimal expansion of ÃÂ contains every possible finite string of digits?
â Alex
Oct 19 '12 at 9:53
44
@Alex: there's no particular reason for the digits of $pi$ to have any special pattern to them, so mathematicians expect that the digits of $pi$ more or less "behave randomly," and a random sequence of digits contains every possible finite string of digits with probability $1$ by Borel's normal number theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_number#Properties_and_examples
â Qiaochu Yuan
Oct 19 '12 at 16:52
9
@Mariano: Oh, thereâÂÂs a book that someone ought to write: Borges in Asgard! :-)
â Brian M. Scott
Oct 21 '12 at 9:45
505
505
I'll bet this answer is in there too.
â AccidentallyObtuse
Oct 19 '12 at 2:02
I'll bet this answer is in there too.
â AccidentallyObtuse
Oct 19 '12 at 2:02
6
6
@makerofthings7: Yes, a representation of the entire internet would be in there too. Every representation, in fact.
â BlueRaja - Danny Pflughoeft
Oct 19 '12 at 2:34
@makerofthings7: Yes, a representation of the entire internet would be in there too. Every representation, in fact.
â BlueRaja - Danny Pflughoeft
Oct 19 '12 at 2:34
61
61
Why does it seem likely, that the decimal expansion of ÃÂ contains every possible finite string of digits?
â Alex
Oct 19 '12 at 9:53
Why does it seem likely, that the decimal expansion of ÃÂ contains every possible finite string of digits?
â Alex
Oct 19 '12 at 9:53
44
44
@Alex: there's no particular reason for the digits of $pi$ to have any special pattern to them, so mathematicians expect that the digits of $pi$ more or less "behave randomly," and a random sequence of digits contains every possible finite string of digits with probability $1$ by Borel's normal number theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_number#Properties_and_examples
â Qiaochu Yuan
Oct 19 '12 at 16:52
@Alex: there's no particular reason for the digits of $pi$ to have any special pattern to them, so mathematicians expect that the digits of $pi$ more or less "behave randomly," and a random sequence of digits contains every possible finite string of digits with probability $1$ by Borel's normal number theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_number#Properties_and_examples
â Qiaochu Yuan
Oct 19 '12 at 16:52
9
9
@Mariano: Oh, thereâÂÂs a book that someone ought to write: Borges in Asgard! :-)
â Brian M. Scott
Oct 21 '12 at 9:45
@Mariano: Oh, thereâÂÂs a book that someone ought to write: Borges in Asgard! :-)
â Brian M. Scott
Oct 21 '12 at 9:45
 |Â
show 8 more comments
up vote
415
down vote
Let me summarize the things that have been said which are true and add one more thing.
- $pi$ is not known to have this property, but it is expected to be true.
- This property does not follow from the fact that the decimal expansion of $pi$ is infinite and does not repeat.
The one more thing is the following. The assertion that the answer to every question you could possibly want to ask is contained somewhere in the digits of $pi$ may be true, but it's useless. Here is a string which may make this point clearer: just string together every possible sentence in English, first by length and then by alphabetical order. The resulting string contains the answer to every question you could possibly want to ask, but
- most of what it contains is garbage,
- you have no way of knowing what is and isn't garbage a priori, and
- the only way to refer to a part of the string that isn't garbage is to describe its position in the string, and the bits required to do this themselves constitute a (terrible) encoding of the string. So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself (that is, finding the answer to whatever question you wanted to ask).
In other words, a string which contains everything contains nothing. Useful communication is useful because of what it does not contain.
You should keep all of the above in mind and then read Jorge Luis Borges' The Library of Babel. (A library which contains every book contains no books.)
13
Nice reference! That's a fun read.
â Manny Reyes
Oct 18 '12 at 22:47
15
"So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself" - indeed, rather harder: if I know how long a message is, I have an upper bound on the inormation contained in the encoding. But I have no upper bound on the information needed to represent the index into any given normal number.
â Charles Stewart
Oct 19 '12 at 12:06
6
What if you layout all the sentences in order of usefulness? :P
â naught101
Oct 21 '12 at 5:55
2
@corsiKa: what I'm saying is that the location of a message in $pi$ is itself information, and that location doesn't come for free. Trying to communicate information by pointing to where it is in $pi$ constitutes an extremely inefficient encryption algorithm.
â Qiaochu Yuan
Dec 1 '12 at 3:16
1
@didibus Not really, because natural language satisfies a form of Turing-completeness: you could just say "The answer to problem X is, in binary, one one zero one ..." and proceed to give a binary encoding of a description of your "improved" language followed by an encoding of the message itself. Thus any other Turing-complete language can be delivered in English (and most other natural languages in use).
â Mario Carneiro
Feb 5 '14 at 14:13
 |Â
show 7 more comments
up vote
415
down vote
Let me summarize the things that have been said which are true and add one more thing.
- $pi$ is not known to have this property, but it is expected to be true.
- This property does not follow from the fact that the decimal expansion of $pi$ is infinite and does not repeat.
The one more thing is the following. The assertion that the answer to every question you could possibly want to ask is contained somewhere in the digits of $pi$ may be true, but it's useless. Here is a string which may make this point clearer: just string together every possible sentence in English, first by length and then by alphabetical order. The resulting string contains the answer to every question you could possibly want to ask, but
- most of what it contains is garbage,
- you have no way of knowing what is and isn't garbage a priori, and
- the only way to refer to a part of the string that isn't garbage is to describe its position in the string, and the bits required to do this themselves constitute a (terrible) encoding of the string. So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself (that is, finding the answer to whatever question you wanted to ask).
In other words, a string which contains everything contains nothing. Useful communication is useful because of what it does not contain.
You should keep all of the above in mind and then read Jorge Luis Borges' The Library of Babel. (A library which contains every book contains no books.)
13
Nice reference! That's a fun read.
â Manny Reyes
Oct 18 '12 at 22:47
15
"So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself" - indeed, rather harder: if I know how long a message is, I have an upper bound on the inormation contained in the encoding. But I have no upper bound on the information needed to represent the index into any given normal number.
â Charles Stewart
Oct 19 '12 at 12:06
6
What if you layout all the sentences in order of usefulness? :P
â naught101
Oct 21 '12 at 5:55
2
@corsiKa: what I'm saying is that the location of a message in $pi$ is itself information, and that location doesn't come for free. Trying to communicate information by pointing to where it is in $pi$ constitutes an extremely inefficient encryption algorithm.
â Qiaochu Yuan
Dec 1 '12 at 3:16
1
@didibus Not really, because natural language satisfies a form of Turing-completeness: you could just say "The answer to problem X is, in binary, one one zero one ..." and proceed to give a binary encoding of a description of your "improved" language followed by an encoding of the message itself. Thus any other Turing-complete language can be delivered in English (and most other natural languages in use).
â Mario Carneiro
Feb 5 '14 at 14:13
 |Â
show 7 more comments
up vote
415
down vote
up vote
415
down vote
Let me summarize the things that have been said which are true and add one more thing.
- $pi$ is not known to have this property, but it is expected to be true.
- This property does not follow from the fact that the decimal expansion of $pi$ is infinite and does not repeat.
The one more thing is the following. The assertion that the answer to every question you could possibly want to ask is contained somewhere in the digits of $pi$ may be true, but it's useless. Here is a string which may make this point clearer: just string together every possible sentence in English, first by length and then by alphabetical order. The resulting string contains the answer to every question you could possibly want to ask, but
- most of what it contains is garbage,
- you have no way of knowing what is and isn't garbage a priori, and
- the only way to refer to a part of the string that isn't garbage is to describe its position in the string, and the bits required to do this themselves constitute a (terrible) encoding of the string. So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself (that is, finding the answer to whatever question you wanted to ask).
In other words, a string which contains everything contains nothing. Useful communication is useful because of what it does not contain.
You should keep all of the above in mind and then read Jorge Luis Borges' The Library of Babel. (A library which contains every book contains no books.)
Let me summarize the things that have been said which are true and add one more thing.
- $pi$ is not known to have this property, but it is expected to be true.
- This property does not follow from the fact that the decimal expansion of $pi$ is infinite and does not repeat.
The one more thing is the following. The assertion that the answer to every question you could possibly want to ask is contained somewhere in the digits of $pi$ may be true, but it's useless. Here is a string which may make this point clearer: just string together every possible sentence in English, first by length and then by alphabetical order. The resulting string contains the answer to every question you could possibly want to ask, but
- most of what it contains is garbage,
- you have no way of knowing what is and isn't garbage a priori, and
- the only way to refer to a part of the string that isn't garbage is to describe its position in the string, and the bits required to do this themselves constitute a (terrible) encoding of the string. So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself (that is, finding the answer to whatever question you wanted to ask).
In other words, a string which contains everything contains nothing. Useful communication is useful because of what it does not contain.
You should keep all of the above in mind and then read Jorge Luis Borges' The Library of Babel. (A library which contains every book contains no books.)
edited Oct 20 '12 at 18:46
answered Oct 18 '12 at 22:38
Qiaochu Yuan
269k32564900
269k32564900
13
Nice reference! That's a fun read.
â Manny Reyes
Oct 18 '12 at 22:47
15
"So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself" - indeed, rather harder: if I know how long a message is, I have an upper bound on the inormation contained in the encoding. But I have no upper bound on the information needed to represent the index into any given normal number.
â Charles Stewart
Oct 19 '12 at 12:06
6
What if you layout all the sentences in order of usefulness? :P
â naught101
Oct 21 '12 at 5:55
2
@corsiKa: what I'm saying is that the location of a message in $pi$ is itself information, and that location doesn't come for free. Trying to communicate information by pointing to where it is in $pi$ constitutes an extremely inefficient encryption algorithm.
â Qiaochu Yuan
Dec 1 '12 at 3:16
1
@didibus Not really, because natural language satisfies a form of Turing-completeness: you could just say "The answer to problem X is, in binary, one one zero one ..." and proceed to give a binary encoding of a description of your "improved" language followed by an encoding of the message itself. Thus any other Turing-complete language can be delivered in English (and most other natural languages in use).
â Mario Carneiro
Feb 5 '14 at 14:13
 |Â
show 7 more comments
13
Nice reference! That's a fun read.
â Manny Reyes
Oct 18 '12 at 22:47
15
"So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself" - indeed, rather harder: if I know how long a message is, I have an upper bound on the inormation contained in the encoding. But I have no upper bound on the information needed to represent the index into any given normal number.
â Charles Stewart
Oct 19 '12 at 12:06
6
What if you layout all the sentences in order of usefulness? :P
â naught101
Oct 21 '12 at 5:55
2
@corsiKa: what I'm saying is that the location of a message in $pi$ is itself information, and that location doesn't come for free. Trying to communicate information by pointing to where it is in $pi$ constitutes an extremely inefficient encryption algorithm.
â Qiaochu Yuan
Dec 1 '12 at 3:16
1
@didibus Not really, because natural language satisfies a form of Turing-completeness: you could just say "The answer to problem X is, in binary, one one zero one ..." and proceed to give a binary encoding of a description of your "improved" language followed by an encoding of the message itself. Thus any other Turing-complete language can be delivered in English (and most other natural languages in use).
â Mario Carneiro
Feb 5 '14 at 14:13
13
13
Nice reference! That's a fun read.
â Manny Reyes
Oct 18 '12 at 22:47
Nice reference! That's a fun read.
â Manny Reyes
Oct 18 '12 at 22:47
15
15
"So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself" - indeed, rather harder: if I know how long a message is, I have an upper bound on the inormation contained in the encoding. But I have no upper bound on the information needed to represent the index into any given normal number.
â Charles Stewart
Oct 19 '12 at 12:06
"So finding this location is exactly as hard as finding the string itself" - indeed, rather harder: if I know how long a message is, I have an upper bound on the inormation contained in the encoding. But I have no upper bound on the information needed to represent the index into any given normal number.
â Charles Stewart
Oct 19 '12 at 12:06
6
6
What if you layout all the sentences in order of usefulness? :P
â naught101
Oct 21 '12 at 5:55
What if you layout all the sentences in order of usefulness? :P
â naught101
Oct 21 '12 at 5:55
2
2
@corsiKa: what I'm saying is that the location of a message in $pi$ is itself information, and that location doesn't come for free. Trying to communicate information by pointing to where it is in $pi$ constitutes an extremely inefficient encryption algorithm.
â Qiaochu Yuan
Dec 1 '12 at 3:16
@corsiKa: what I'm saying is that the location of a message in $pi$ is itself information, and that location doesn't come for free. Trying to communicate information by pointing to where it is in $pi$ constitutes an extremely inefficient encryption algorithm.
â Qiaochu Yuan
Dec 1 '12 at 3:16
1
1
@didibus Not really, because natural language satisfies a form of Turing-completeness: you could just say "The answer to problem X is, in binary, one one zero one ..." and proceed to give a binary encoding of a description of your "improved" language followed by an encoding of the message itself. Thus any other Turing-complete language can be delivered in English (and most other natural languages in use).
â Mario Carneiro
Feb 5 '14 at 14:13
@didibus Not really, because natural language satisfies a form of Turing-completeness: you could just say "The answer to problem X is, in binary, one one zero one ..." and proceed to give a binary encoding of a description of your "improved" language followed by an encoding of the message itself. Thus any other Turing-complete language can be delivered in English (and most other natural languages in use).
â Mario Carneiro
Feb 5 '14 at 14:13
 |Â
show 7 more comments
up vote
197
down vote
It is widely believed that $pi$ is a normal number. This (or even the weaker property of being disjunctive) implies that every possible string occurs somewhere in its expansion.
So yes, it has the story of your life -- but it also has many false stories, many subtly wrong statements, and lots of gibberish.
219
And you wouldn't believe the terrible spelling.
â Scott Rippey
Oct 18 '12 at 19:33
5
@SydKerckhove: It's normal in the sense that almost all numbers have this property. Numbers like 7 and 4/3 that lack this property are very rare indeed (though still infinite).
â Charles
Jan 30 '15 at 17:21
@Charles Errr.. It's normal in the sense that the digits are distributed uniformly.
â MickLH
Feb 17 '17 at 22:24
2
@MickLH But the reason that the property is called "normal" rather than, say, "weird" is that it occurs in a measure 1 subset of the reals.
â Charles
Feb 18 '17 at 1:33
I see what you're saying! thanks for clarifying
â MickLH
Feb 18 '17 at 1:35
add a comment |Â
up vote
197
down vote
It is widely believed that $pi$ is a normal number. This (or even the weaker property of being disjunctive) implies that every possible string occurs somewhere in its expansion.
So yes, it has the story of your life -- but it also has many false stories, many subtly wrong statements, and lots of gibberish.
219
And you wouldn't believe the terrible spelling.
â Scott Rippey
Oct 18 '12 at 19:33
5
@SydKerckhove: It's normal in the sense that almost all numbers have this property. Numbers like 7 and 4/3 that lack this property are very rare indeed (though still infinite).
â Charles
Jan 30 '15 at 17:21
@Charles Errr.. It's normal in the sense that the digits are distributed uniformly.
â MickLH
Feb 17 '17 at 22:24
2
@MickLH But the reason that the property is called "normal" rather than, say, "weird" is that it occurs in a measure 1 subset of the reals.
â Charles
Feb 18 '17 at 1:33
I see what you're saying! thanks for clarifying
â MickLH
Feb 18 '17 at 1:35
add a comment |Â
up vote
197
down vote
up vote
197
down vote
It is widely believed that $pi$ is a normal number. This (or even the weaker property of being disjunctive) implies that every possible string occurs somewhere in its expansion.
So yes, it has the story of your life -- but it also has many false stories, many subtly wrong statements, and lots of gibberish.
It is widely believed that $pi$ is a normal number. This (or even the weaker property of being disjunctive) implies that every possible string occurs somewhere in its expansion.
So yes, it has the story of your life -- but it also has many false stories, many subtly wrong statements, and lots of gibberish.
answered Oct 18 '12 at 14:39
Charles
23.3k449112
23.3k449112
219
And you wouldn't believe the terrible spelling.
â Scott Rippey
Oct 18 '12 at 19:33
5
@SydKerckhove: It's normal in the sense that almost all numbers have this property. Numbers like 7 and 4/3 that lack this property are very rare indeed (though still infinite).
â Charles
Jan 30 '15 at 17:21
@Charles Errr.. It's normal in the sense that the digits are distributed uniformly.
â MickLH
Feb 17 '17 at 22:24
2
@MickLH But the reason that the property is called "normal" rather than, say, "weird" is that it occurs in a measure 1 subset of the reals.
â Charles
Feb 18 '17 at 1:33
I see what you're saying! thanks for clarifying
â MickLH
Feb 18 '17 at 1:35
add a comment |Â
219
And you wouldn't believe the terrible spelling.
â Scott Rippey
Oct 18 '12 at 19:33
5
@SydKerckhove: It's normal in the sense that almost all numbers have this property. Numbers like 7 and 4/3 that lack this property are very rare indeed (though still infinite).
â Charles
Jan 30 '15 at 17:21
@Charles Errr.. It's normal in the sense that the digits are distributed uniformly.
â MickLH
Feb 17 '17 at 22:24
2
@MickLH But the reason that the property is called "normal" rather than, say, "weird" is that it occurs in a measure 1 subset of the reals.
â Charles
Feb 18 '17 at 1:33
I see what you're saying! thanks for clarifying
â MickLH
Feb 18 '17 at 1:35
219
219
And you wouldn't believe the terrible spelling.
â Scott Rippey
Oct 18 '12 at 19:33
And you wouldn't believe the terrible spelling.
â Scott Rippey
Oct 18 '12 at 19:33
5
5
@SydKerckhove: It's normal in the sense that almost all numbers have this property. Numbers like 7 and 4/3 that lack this property are very rare indeed (though still infinite).
â Charles
Jan 30 '15 at 17:21
@SydKerckhove: It's normal in the sense that almost all numbers have this property. Numbers like 7 and 4/3 that lack this property are very rare indeed (though still infinite).
â Charles
Jan 30 '15 at 17:21
@Charles Errr.. It's normal in the sense that the digits are distributed uniformly.
â MickLH
Feb 17 '17 at 22:24
@Charles Errr.. It's normal in the sense that the digits are distributed uniformly.
â MickLH
Feb 17 '17 at 22:24
2
2
@MickLH But the reason that the property is called "normal" rather than, say, "weird" is that it occurs in a measure 1 subset of the reals.
â Charles
Feb 18 '17 at 1:33
@MickLH But the reason that the property is called "normal" rather than, say, "weird" is that it occurs in a measure 1 subset of the reals.
â Charles
Feb 18 '17 at 1:33
I see what you're saying! thanks for clarifying
â MickLH
Feb 18 '17 at 1:35
I see what you're saying! thanks for clarifying
â MickLH
Feb 18 '17 at 1:35
add a comment |Â
up vote
91
down vote
According to Mathematica, when $pi$ is expressed in base 128 (whose digits can therefore be interpreted as ASCII characters),
"NO" appears at position 702;
"Yes" appears at position 303351.
Given (following Feynman in his Lectures on Physics) that any question $A$ with possible answer $A'$ (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is $A'$ a correct answer to $A$?", and that such questions have either "no" or "yes" answers, this proves the second sentence of the claim--and shows just how empty an assertion it is. (As others have remarked, the first sentence--depending on its interpretation--is either wrong or has unknown truth value.)
Code
pNO = FromCharacterCode[RealDigits[[Pi], 128, 710]];
pYes = FromCharacterCode[RealDigits[[Pi], 128, 303400]];
StringPosition[pNO, "NO"], StringPosition[pYes, "Yes"]
702, 703, , 303351, 303353,
3
Please advise: where does 'pi' or 'ÃÂ' occur?
â QED
Oct 19 '12 at 2:53
3
Special thanks to you sir, for your example !
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 4:58
2
Is it true 'that any question A with possible answer Aâ² (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is Aâ² a correct answer to A?"' Does that reduce the "all the great questions of the universe" to some inferior subset? I don't know, just asking.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 9:56
5
@LarsH That's a good question--but it starts to push us more into philosophy than mathematics. This re-expression of every great question as a yes-no question requires that you accept that every such question does have a definite answer and that you also accept the Law of the Excluded Middle.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 13:40
10
@Lars I was just riffing off Feynman, not quoting him. What he actually said is that there likely is a single equation describing all the laws of physics. As I recall, just collect all the basic equations of physical law (presumably finite in number), express them each in the form $u_i=0$, and then write $sum_i |u_i|^2 = 0$. This trivial re-expression of things that look complicated into something superficially looking much simpler was my motivation for arguing all the great questions of life can be made into yes-no questions.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 20:43
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
91
down vote
According to Mathematica, when $pi$ is expressed in base 128 (whose digits can therefore be interpreted as ASCII characters),
"NO" appears at position 702;
"Yes" appears at position 303351.
Given (following Feynman in his Lectures on Physics) that any question $A$ with possible answer $A'$ (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is $A'$ a correct answer to $A$?", and that such questions have either "no" or "yes" answers, this proves the second sentence of the claim--and shows just how empty an assertion it is. (As others have remarked, the first sentence--depending on its interpretation--is either wrong or has unknown truth value.)
Code
pNO = FromCharacterCode[RealDigits[[Pi], 128, 710]];
pYes = FromCharacterCode[RealDigits[[Pi], 128, 303400]];
StringPosition[pNO, "NO"], StringPosition[pYes, "Yes"]
702, 703, , 303351, 303353,
3
Please advise: where does 'pi' or 'ÃÂ' occur?
â QED
Oct 19 '12 at 2:53
3
Special thanks to you sir, for your example !
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 4:58
2
Is it true 'that any question A with possible answer Aâ² (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is Aâ² a correct answer to A?"' Does that reduce the "all the great questions of the universe" to some inferior subset? I don't know, just asking.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 9:56
5
@LarsH That's a good question--but it starts to push us more into philosophy than mathematics. This re-expression of every great question as a yes-no question requires that you accept that every such question does have a definite answer and that you also accept the Law of the Excluded Middle.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 13:40
10
@Lars I was just riffing off Feynman, not quoting him. What he actually said is that there likely is a single equation describing all the laws of physics. As I recall, just collect all the basic equations of physical law (presumably finite in number), express them each in the form $u_i=0$, and then write $sum_i |u_i|^2 = 0$. This trivial re-expression of things that look complicated into something superficially looking much simpler was my motivation for arguing all the great questions of life can be made into yes-no questions.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 20:43
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
91
down vote
up vote
91
down vote
According to Mathematica, when $pi$ is expressed in base 128 (whose digits can therefore be interpreted as ASCII characters),
"NO" appears at position 702;
"Yes" appears at position 303351.
Given (following Feynman in his Lectures on Physics) that any question $A$ with possible answer $A'$ (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is $A'$ a correct answer to $A$?", and that such questions have either "no" or "yes" answers, this proves the second sentence of the claim--and shows just how empty an assertion it is. (As others have remarked, the first sentence--depending on its interpretation--is either wrong or has unknown truth value.)
Code
pNO = FromCharacterCode[RealDigits[[Pi], 128, 710]];
pYes = FromCharacterCode[RealDigits[[Pi], 128, 303400]];
StringPosition[pNO, "NO"], StringPosition[pYes, "Yes"]
702, 703, , 303351, 303353,
According to Mathematica, when $pi$ is expressed in base 128 (whose digits can therefore be interpreted as ASCII characters),
"NO" appears at position 702;
"Yes" appears at position 303351.
Given (following Feynman in his Lectures on Physics) that any question $A$ with possible answer $A'$ (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is $A'$ a correct answer to $A$?", and that such questions have either "no" or "yes" answers, this proves the second sentence of the claim--and shows just how empty an assertion it is. (As others have remarked, the first sentence--depending on its interpretation--is either wrong or has unknown truth value.)
Code
pNO = FromCharacterCode[RealDigits[[Pi], 128, 710]];
pYes = FromCharacterCode[RealDigits[[Pi], 128, 303400]];
StringPosition[pNO, "NO"], StringPosition[pYes, "Yes"]
702, 703, , 303351, 303353,
answered Oct 18 '12 at 19:52
whuber
7,0082034
7,0082034
3
Please advise: where does 'pi' or 'ÃÂ' occur?
â QED
Oct 19 '12 at 2:53
3
Special thanks to you sir, for your example !
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 4:58
2
Is it true 'that any question A with possible answer Aâ² (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is Aâ² a correct answer to A?"' Does that reduce the "all the great questions of the universe" to some inferior subset? I don't know, just asking.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 9:56
5
@LarsH That's a good question--but it starts to push us more into philosophy than mathematics. This re-expression of every great question as a yes-no question requires that you accept that every such question does have a definite answer and that you also accept the Law of the Excluded Middle.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 13:40
10
@Lars I was just riffing off Feynman, not quoting him. What he actually said is that there likely is a single equation describing all the laws of physics. As I recall, just collect all the basic equations of physical law (presumably finite in number), express them each in the form $u_i=0$, and then write $sum_i |u_i|^2 = 0$. This trivial re-expression of things that look complicated into something superficially looking much simpler was my motivation for arguing all the great questions of life can be made into yes-no questions.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 20:43
 |Â
show 4 more comments
3
Please advise: where does 'pi' or 'ÃÂ' occur?
â QED
Oct 19 '12 at 2:53
3
Special thanks to you sir, for your example !
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 4:58
2
Is it true 'that any question A with possible answer Aâ² (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is Aâ² a correct answer to A?"' Does that reduce the "all the great questions of the universe" to some inferior subset? I don't know, just asking.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 9:56
5
@LarsH That's a good question--but it starts to push us more into philosophy than mathematics. This re-expression of every great question as a yes-no question requires that you accept that every such question does have a definite answer and that you also accept the Law of the Excluded Middle.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 13:40
10
@Lars I was just riffing off Feynman, not quoting him. What he actually said is that there likely is a single equation describing all the laws of physics. As I recall, just collect all the basic equations of physical law (presumably finite in number), express them each in the form $u_i=0$, and then write $sum_i |u_i|^2 = 0$. This trivial re-expression of things that look complicated into something superficially looking much simpler was my motivation for arguing all the great questions of life can be made into yes-no questions.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 20:43
3
3
Please advise: where does 'pi' or 'ÃÂ' occur?
â QED
Oct 19 '12 at 2:53
Please advise: where does 'pi' or 'ÃÂ' occur?
â QED
Oct 19 '12 at 2:53
3
3
Special thanks to you sir, for your example !
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 4:58
Special thanks to you sir, for your example !
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 4:58
2
2
Is it true 'that any question A with possible answer Aâ² (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is Aâ² a correct answer to A?"' Does that reduce the "all the great questions of the universe" to some inferior subset? I don't know, just asking.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 9:56
Is it true 'that any question A with possible answer Aâ² (correct or not) can be re-expressed in the form "Is Aâ² a correct answer to A?"' Does that reduce the "all the great questions of the universe" to some inferior subset? I don't know, just asking.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 9:56
5
5
@LarsH That's a good question--but it starts to push us more into philosophy than mathematics. This re-expression of every great question as a yes-no question requires that you accept that every such question does have a definite answer and that you also accept the Law of the Excluded Middle.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 13:40
@LarsH That's a good question--but it starts to push us more into philosophy than mathematics. This re-expression of every great question as a yes-no question requires that you accept that every such question does have a definite answer and that you also accept the Law of the Excluded Middle.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 13:40
10
10
@Lars I was just riffing off Feynman, not quoting him. What he actually said is that there likely is a single equation describing all the laws of physics. As I recall, just collect all the basic equations of physical law (presumably finite in number), express them each in the form $u_i=0$, and then write $sum_i |u_i|^2 = 0$. This trivial re-expression of things that look complicated into something superficially looking much simpler was my motivation for arguing all the great questions of life can be made into yes-no questions.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 20:43
@Lars I was just riffing off Feynman, not quoting him. What he actually said is that there likely is a single equation describing all the laws of physics. As I recall, just collect all the basic equations of physical law (presumably finite in number), express them each in the form $u_i=0$, and then write $sum_i |u_i|^2 = 0$. This trivial re-expression of things that look complicated into something superficially looking much simpler was my motivation for arguing all the great questions of life can be made into yes-no questions.
â whuber
Oct 19 '12 at 20:43
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
88
down vote
This is an open question. It is not yet known if $pi$ is a normal number.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NormalNumber.html
5
or even disjunctive.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 19:57
add a comment |Â
up vote
88
down vote
This is an open question. It is not yet known if $pi$ is a normal number.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NormalNumber.html
5
or even disjunctive.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 19:57
add a comment |Â
up vote
88
down vote
up vote
88
down vote
This is an open question. It is not yet known if $pi$ is a normal number.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NormalNumber.html
This is an open question. It is not yet known if $pi$ is a normal number.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NormalNumber.html
answered Oct 18 '12 at 14:39
axblount
1,97611016
1,97611016
5
or even disjunctive.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 19:57
add a comment |Â
5
or even disjunctive.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 19:57
5
5
or even disjunctive.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 19:57
or even disjunctive.
â LarsH
Oct 19 '12 at 19:57
add a comment |Â
up vote
47
down vote
Whether or not it's true, it's absolutely useless.
Imagine finding your life story: a copiously documented and flawless recounting of every day of your life... right up until yesterday where it states that you died and abruptly reverts back to gibberish. If pi truly contains every possible string, then that story is in there, too. Now, imagine if it said you die tomorrow. Would you believe it, or keep searching for the next copy of your life story?
The problem is that there is no structure to the information. It would take a herculean effort to process all of that data to get to the "correct" section, and immense wisdom to recognize it as correct. So if you were thinking of using pi as an oracle to determine these things, you might as well count every single atom that comprises planet Earth. That should serve as a nice warm up.
32
nb. if it is true, then you can justify any rambling, gibberish, or errors with the excuse, "I was just quoting pi".
â Dan Burton
Oct 18 '12 at 22:41
6
It has the use of getting people interested in mathematics (e.g. it motivated this question).
â Douglas S. Stones
Oct 19 '12 at 0:27
3
@DouglasS.Stones I agree, it does provoke interest in mathematics.
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 5:03
5
It would also take about the same amount of information to specify the location that an arbitrary string starts in pi at as the string contains.
â dan_waterworth
Oct 19 '12 at 8:05
6
I doubt anybody expects to get any information about their life from ÃÂ. It's just an interesting way to imagine infinity.
â redbmk
Oct 19 '12 at 17:22
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
47
down vote
Whether or not it's true, it's absolutely useless.
Imagine finding your life story: a copiously documented and flawless recounting of every day of your life... right up until yesterday where it states that you died and abruptly reverts back to gibberish. If pi truly contains every possible string, then that story is in there, too. Now, imagine if it said you die tomorrow. Would you believe it, or keep searching for the next copy of your life story?
The problem is that there is no structure to the information. It would take a herculean effort to process all of that data to get to the "correct" section, and immense wisdom to recognize it as correct. So if you were thinking of using pi as an oracle to determine these things, you might as well count every single atom that comprises planet Earth. That should serve as a nice warm up.
32
nb. if it is true, then you can justify any rambling, gibberish, or errors with the excuse, "I was just quoting pi".
â Dan Burton
Oct 18 '12 at 22:41
6
It has the use of getting people interested in mathematics (e.g. it motivated this question).
â Douglas S. Stones
Oct 19 '12 at 0:27
3
@DouglasS.Stones I agree, it does provoke interest in mathematics.
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 5:03
5
It would also take about the same amount of information to specify the location that an arbitrary string starts in pi at as the string contains.
â dan_waterworth
Oct 19 '12 at 8:05
6
I doubt anybody expects to get any information about their life from ÃÂ. It's just an interesting way to imagine infinity.
â redbmk
Oct 19 '12 at 17:22
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
47
down vote
up vote
47
down vote
Whether or not it's true, it's absolutely useless.
Imagine finding your life story: a copiously documented and flawless recounting of every day of your life... right up until yesterday where it states that you died and abruptly reverts back to gibberish. If pi truly contains every possible string, then that story is in there, too. Now, imagine if it said you die tomorrow. Would you believe it, or keep searching for the next copy of your life story?
The problem is that there is no structure to the information. It would take a herculean effort to process all of that data to get to the "correct" section, and immense wisdom to recognize it as correct. So if you were thinking of using pi as an oracle to determine these things, you might as well count every single atom that comprises planet Earth. That should serve as a nice warm up.
Whether or not it's true, it's absolutely useless.
Imagine finding your life story: a copiously documented and flawless recounting of every day of your life... right up until yesterday where it states that you died and abruptly reverts back to gibberish. If pi truly contains every possible string, then that story is in there, too. Now, imagine if it said you die tomorrow. Would you believe it, or keep searching for the next copy of your life story?
The problem is that there is no structure to the information. It would take a herculean effort to process all of that data to get to the "correct" section, and immense wisdom to recognize it as correct. So if you were thinking of using pi as an oracle to determine these things, you might as well count every single atom that comprises planet Earth. That should serve as a nice warm up.
answered Oct 18 '12 at 22:28
Dan Burton
57134
57134
32
nb. if it is true, then you can justify any rambling, gibberish, or errors with the excuse, "I was just quoting pi".
â Dan Burton
Oct 18 '12 at 22:41
6
It has the use of getting people interested in mathematics (e.g. it motivated this question).
â Douglas S. Stones
Oct 19 '12 at 0:27
3
@DouglasS.Stones I agree, it does provoke interest in mathematics.
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 5:03
5
It would also take about the same amount of information to specify the location that an arbitrary string starts in pi at as the string contains.
â dan_waterworth
Oct 19 '12 at 8:05
6
I doubt anybody expects to get any information about their life from ÃÂ. It's just an interesting way to imagine infinity.
â redbmk
Oct 19 '12 at 17:22
 |Â
show 2 more comments
32
nb. if it is true, then you can justify any rambling, gibberish, or errors with the excuse, "I was just quoting pi".
â Dan Burton
Oct 18 '12 at 22:41
6
It has the use of getting people interested in mathematics (e.g. it motivated this question).
â Douglas S. Stones
Oct 19 '12 at 0:27
3
@DouglasS.Stones I agree, it does provoke interest in mathematics.
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 5:03
5
It would also take about the same amount of information to specify the location that an arbitrary string starts in pi at as the string contains.
â dan_waterworth
Oct 19 '12 at 8:05
6
I doubt anybody expects to get any information about their life from ÃÂ. It's just an interesting way to imagine infinity.
â redbmk
Oct 19 '12 at 17:22
32
32
nb. if it is true, then you can justify any rambling, gibberish, or errors with the excuse, "I was just quoting pi".
â Dan Burton
Oct 18 '12 at 22:41
nb. if it is true, then you can justify any rambling, gibberish, or errors with the excuse, "I was just quoting pi".
â Dan Burton
Oct 18 '12 at 22:41
6
6
It has the use of getting people interested in mathematics (e.g. it motivated this question).
â Douglas S. Stones
Oct 19 '12 at 0:27
It has the use of getting people interested in mathematics (e.g. it motivated this question).
â Douglas S. Stones
Oct 19 '12 at 0:27
3
3
@DouglasS.Stones I agree, it does provoke interest in mathematics.
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 5:03
@DouglasS.Stones I agree, it does provoke interest in mathematics.
â Chani
Oct 19 '12 at 5:03
5
5
It would also take about the same amount of information to specify the location that an arbitrary string starts in pi at as the string contains.
â dan_waterworth
Oct 19 '12 at 8:05
It would also take about the same amount of information to specify the location that an arbitrary string starts in pi at as the string contains.
â dan_waterworth
Oct 19 '12 at 8:05
6
6
I doubt anybody expects to get any information about their life from ÃÂ. It's just an interesting way to imagine infinity.
â redbmk
Oct 19 '12 at 17:22
I doubt anybody expects to get any information about their life from ÃÂ. It's just an interesting way to imagine infinity.
â redbmk
Oct 19 '12 at 17:22
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
34
down vote
In general it it not true that an "infinite non-repeating decimal" contains any sequence in it. Consider for example the number $0.01001000100001000001000000100000001...$.
However, it is not known if $pi$ does contain ever sequence.
It can't be known if ANY sequence contains all possible combinations of numbers, as that is infinite and unreachable.
â Supuhstar
Oct 21 '12 at 6:52
13
@Supuhstar unless the sequence is specifically defined with that in mind, like by concatenating numbers consecutively: $0.12345678910111213141516...$
â Robert Mastragostino
Oct 22 '12 at 16:47
add a comment |Â
up vote
34
down vote
In general it it not true that an "infinite non-repeating decimal" contains any sequence in it. Consider for example the number $0.01001000100001000001000000100000001...$.
However, it is not known if $pi$ does contain ever sequence.
It can't be known if ANY sequence contains all possible combinations of numbers, as that is infinite and unreachable.
â Supuhstar
Oct 21 '12 at 6:52
13
@Supuhstar unless the sequence is specifically defined with that in mind, like by concatenating numbers consecutively: $0.12345678910111213141516...$
â Robert Mastragostino
Oct 22 '12 at 16:47
add a comment |Â
up vote
34
down vote
up vote
34
down vote
In general it it not true that an "infinite non-repeating decimal" contains any sequence in it. Consider for example the number $0.01001000100001000001000000100000001...$.
However, it is not known if $pi$ does contain ever sequence.
In general it it not true that an "infinite non-repeating decimal" contains any sequence in it. Consider for example the number $0.01001000100001000001000000100000001...$.
However, it is not known if $pi$ does contain ever sequence.
answered Oct 18 '12 at 14:40
Thomas
34.9k1056116
34.9k1056116
It can't be known if ANY sequence contains all possible combinations of numbers, as that is infinite and unreachable.
â Supuhstar
Oct 21 '12 at 6:52
13
@Supuhstar unless the sequence is specifically defined with that in mind, like by concatenating numbers consecutively: $0.12345678910111213141516...$
â Robert Mastragostino
Oct 22 '12 at 16:47
add a comment |Â
It can't be known if ANY sequence contains all possible combinations of numbers, as that is infinite and unreachable.
â Supuhstar
Oct 21 '12 at 6:52
13
@Supuhstar unless the sequence is specifically defined with that in mind, like by concatenating numbers consecutively: $0.12345678910111213141516...$
â Robert Mastragostino
Oct 22 '12 at 16:47
It can't be known if ANY sequence contains all possible combinations of numbers, as that is infinite and unreachable.
â Supuhstar
Oct 21 '12 at 6:52
It can't be known if ANY sequence contains all possible combinations of numbers, as that is infinite and unreachable.
â Supuhstar
Oct 21 '12 at 6:52
13
13
@Supuhstar unless the sequence is specifically defined with that in mind, like by concatenating numbers consecutively: $0.12345678910111213141516...$
â Robert Mastragostino
Oct 22 '12 at 16:47
@Supuhstar unless the sequence is specifically defined with that in mind, like by concatenating numbers consecutively: $0.12345678910111213141516...$
â Robert Mastragostino
Oct 22 '12 at 16:47
add a comment |Â
up vote
31
down vote
This is False.
Claim: Infinite and Non-Repeating, therefore must have EVERY combination.
Counterexample:
01001100011100001111... This is infinite and non-repeating yet does not have every combination.
Just because something is infinite and non-repeating doesn't mean it has every combination.
Pi may indeed have every combination but you cant use this claim to say that it does.
add a comment |Â
up vote
31
down vote
This is False.
Claim: Infinite and Non-Repeating, therefore must have EVERY combination.
Counterexample:
01001100011100001111... This is infinite and non-repeating yet does not have every combination.
Just because something is infinite and non-repeating doesn't mean it has every combination.
Pi may indeed have every combination but you cant use this claim to say that it does.
add a comment |Â
up vote
31
down vote
up vote
31
down vote
This is False.
Claim: Infinite and Non-Repeating, therefore must have EVERY combination.
Counterexample:
01001100011100001111... This is infinite and non-repeating yet does not have every combination.
Just because something is infinite and non-repeating doesn't mean it has every combination.
Pi may indeed have every combination but you cant use this claim to say that it does.
This is False.
Claim: Infinite and Non-Repeating, therefore must have EVERY combination.
Counterexample:
01001100011100001111... This is infinite and non-repeating yet does not have every combination.
Just because something is infinite and non-repeating doesn't mean it has every combination.
Pi may indeed have every combination but you cant use this claim to say that it does.
answered Oct 18 '12 at 17:32
antz
42038
42038
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
I believe the statement could be worded more accurately. Given the reasonable assumption that PI is infinitely non repeating, it doesn't follow that it would actually incude any particular sequence.
Take this thought experiment as an analogy. Imagine you had to sit in a room for all eternity sayings words, without every ever uttering the same word twice. You would very soon find yourself saying very long words. But there's no logical reason why you should have to use up all the possible short words first. In fact you could systematically exclude the words "yes" or every word containing the letter "y", or any other arbitrary subset of the infinite set of possible words.
Same goes for digit sequences in PI. It's highly probably that any conceivable sequence can be found in PI if you calculate for long enough, but it's not guaranteed by the prescribed conditions.
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
I believe the statement could be worded more accurately. Given the reasonable assumption that PI is infinitely non repeating, it doesn't follow that it would actually incude any particular sequence.
Take this thought experiment as an analogy. Imagine you had to sit in a room for all eternity sayings words, without every ever uttering the same word twice. You would very soon find yourself saying very long words. But there's no logical reason why you should have to use up all the possible short words first. In fact you could systematically exclude the words "yes" or every word containing the letter "y", or any other arbitrary subset of the infinite set of possible words.
Same goes for digit sequences in PI. It's highly probably that any conceivable sequence can be found in PI if you calculate for long enough, but it's not guaranteed by the prescribed conditions.
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
up vote
21
down vote
I believe the statement could be worded more accurately. Given the reasonable assumption that PI is infinitely non repeating, it doesn't follow that it would actually incude any particular sequence.
Take this thought experiment as an analogy. Imagine you had to sit in a room for all eternity sayings words, without every ever uttering the same word twice. You would very soon find yourself saying very long words. But there's no logical reason why you should have to use up all the possible short words first. In fact you could systematically exclude the words "yes" or every word containing the letter "y", or any other arbitrary subset of the infinite set of possible words.
Same goes for digit sequences in PI. It's highly probably that any conceivable sequence can be found in PI if you calculate for long enough, but it's not guaranteed by the prescribed conditions.
I believe the statement could be worded more accurately. Given the reasonable assumption that PI is infinitely non repeating, it doesn't follow that it would actually incude any particular sequence.
Take this thought experiment as an analogy. Imagine you had to sit in a room for all eternity sayings words, without every ever uttering the same word twice. You would very soon find yourself saying very long words. But there's no logical reason why you should have to use up all the possible short words first. In fact you could systematically exclude the words "yes" or every word containing the letter "y", or any other arbitrary subset of the infinite set of possible words.
Same goes for digit sequences in PI. It's highly probably that any conceivable sequence can be found in PI if you calculate for long enough, but it's not guaranteed by the prescribed conditions.
answered Oct 18 '12 at 21:40
Nat
32815
32815
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
Challenge accepted. In the following file are the first 1,048,576 digits (1 Megabyte) of pi (including the leading 3) converted to ANSI (with assistance from the algorithm described in https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12991606/):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9plORbvSu2ra1Atc0QwOGhYZms/edit
1
@MarkHurd someone should try running it :3
â Supuhstar
May 7 '16 at 15:16
1
someone already ran it
â Hernán Eche
Jul 22 '16 at 18:58
@HernánEche and?
â Supuhstar
Jul 22 '16 at 20:08
3
and.. we are the running code effects, living in a matrix-like universe simulation, encoded in pi.
â Hernán Eche
Jul 26 '16 at 12:43
Wilding say: "Joy" occurs thrice, and "sad" a whopping 11 times ! - it depends on the encoding, as they have 3 different letters there is a encoding such as sex is written 11 times and sad 3 so: the message depends on the messenger
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:48
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
Challenge accepted. In the following file are the first 1,048,576 digits (1 Megabyte) of pi (including the leading 3) converted to ANSI (with assistance from the algorithm described in https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12991606/):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9plORbvSu2ra1Atc0QwOGhYZms/edit
1
@MarkHurd someone should try running it :3
â Supuhstar
May 7 '16 at 15:16
1
someone already ran it
â Hernán Eche
Jul 22 '16 at 18:58
@HernánEche and?
â Supuhstar
Jul 22 '16 at 20:08
3
and.. we are the running code effects, living in a matrix-like universe simulation, encoded in pi.
â Hernán Eche
Jul 26 '16 at 12:43
Wilding say: "Joy" occurs thrice, and "sad" a whopping 11 times ! - it depends on the encoding, as they have 3 different letters there is a encoding such as sex is written 11 times and sad 3 so: the message depends on the messenger
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:48
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
up vote
21
down vote
Challenge accepted. In the following file are the first 1,048,576 digits (1 Megabyte) of pi (including the leading 3) converted to ANSI (with assistance from the algorithm described in https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12991606/):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9plORbvSu2ra1Atc0QwOGhYZms/edit
Challenge accepted. In the following file are the first 1,048,576 digits (1 Megabyte) of pi (including the leading 3) converted to ANSI (with assistance from the algorithm described in https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12991606/):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9plORbvSu2ra1Atc0QwOGhYZms/edit
edited May 23 '17 at 12:39
Communityâ¦
1
1
answered Oct 21 '12 at 6:31
Supuhstar
6491613
6491613
1
@MarkHurd someone should try running it :3
â Supuhstar
May 7 '16 at 15:16
1
someone already ran it
â Hernán Eche
Jul 22 '16 at 18:58
@HernánEche and?
â Supuhstar
Jul 22 '16 at 20:08
3
and.. we are the running code effects, living in a matrix-like universe simulation, encoded in pi.
â Hernán Eche
Jul 26 '16 at 12:43
Wilding say: "Joy" occurs thrice, and "sad" a whopping 11 times ! - it depends on the encoding, as they have 3 different letters there is a encoding such as sex is written 11 times and sad 3 so: the message depends on the messenger
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:48
add a comment |Â
1
@MarkHurd someone should try running it :3
â Supuhstar
May 7 '16 at 15:16
1
someone already ran it
â Hernán Eche
Jul 22 '16 at 18:58
@HernánEche and?
â Supuhstar
Jul 22 '16 at 20:08
3
and.. we are the running code effects, living in a matrix-like universe simulation, encoded in pi.
â Hernán Eche
Jul 26 '16 at 12:43
Wilding say: "Joy" occurs thrice, and "sad" a whopping 11 times ! - it depends on the encoding, as they have 3 different letters there is a encoding such as sex is written 11 times and sad 3 so: the message depends on the messenger
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:48
1
1
@MarkHurd someone should try running it :3
â Supuhstar
May 7 '16 at 15:16
@MarkHurd someone should try running it :3
â Supuhstar
May 7 '16 at 15:16
1
1
someone already ran it
â Hernán Eche
Jul 22 '16 at 18:58
someone already ran it
â Hernán Eche
Jul 22 '16 at 18:58
@HernánEche and?
â Supuhstar
Jul 22 '16 at 20:08
@HernánEche and?
â Supuhstar
Jul 22 '16 at 20:08
3
3
and.. we are the running code effects, living in a matrix-like universe simulation, encoded in pi.
â Hernán Eche
Jul 26 '16 at 12:43
and.. we are the running code effects, living in a matrix-like universe simulation, encoded in pi.
â Hernán Eche
Jul 26 '16 at 12:43
Wilding say: "Joy" occurs thrice, and "sad" a whopping 11 times ! - it depends on the encoding, as they have 3 different letters there is a encoding such as sex is written 11 times and sad 3 so: the message depends on the messenger
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:48
Wilding say: "Joy" occurs thrice, and "sad" a whopping 11 times ! - it depends on the encoding, as they have 3 different letters there is a encoding such as sex is written 11 times and sad 3 so: the message depends on the messenger
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:48
add a comment |Â
up vote
19
down vote
And even if your statement is true with $pi$, it does not make $pi$ special. If we hit a real number at random, with probability $1$ we will hit a normal number. That is "almost all" real number is like that. The set of not-normal numbers have Lebesgue measure zero.
4
How do you know that the set of non-normal numbers is Lebesgue measurable?
â celtschk
Jul 12 '15 at 8:29
1
Please give a cite, or literature for that answer!!!!! It is a big deal to say something like that.
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:36
I found a cite for this result, but I can't say if it is acurete or not: math.boku.ac.at/udt/vol09/no2/06filsus.pdf
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 15:05
add a comment |Â
up vote
19
down vote
And even if your statement is true with $pi$, it does not make $pi$ special. If we hit a real number at random, with probability $1$ we will hit a normal number. That is "almost all" real number is like that. The set of not-normal numbers have Lebesgue measure zero.
4
How do you know that the set of non-normal numbers is Lebesgue measurable?
â celtschk
Jul 12 '15 at 8:29
1
Please give a cite, or literature for that answer!!!!! It is a big deal to say something like that.
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:36
I found a cite for this result, but I can't say if it is acurete or not: math.boku.ac.at/udt/vol09/no2/06filsus.pdf
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 15:05
add a comment |Â
up vote
19
down vote
up vote
19
down vote
And even if your statement is true with $pi$, it does not make $pi$ special. If we hit a real number at random, with probability $1$ we will hit a normal number. That is "almost all" real number is like that. The set of not-normal numbers have Lebesgue measure zero.
And even if your statement is true with $pi$, it does not make $pi$ special. If we hit a real number at random, with probability $1$ we will hit a normal number. That is "almost all" real number is like that. The set of not-normal numbers have Lebesgue measure zero.
edited May 26 '14 at 22:33
answered Apr 21 '13 at 15:32
mez
4,99032768
4,99032768
4
How do you know that the set of non-normal numbers is Lebesgue measurable?
â celtschk
Jul 12 '15 at 8:29
1
Please give a cite, or literature for that answer!!!!! It is a big deal to say something like that.
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:36
I found a cite for this result, but I can't say if it is acurete or not: math.boku.ac.at/udt/vol09/no2/06filsus.pdf
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 15:05
add a comment |Â
4
How do you know that the set of non-normal numbers is Lebesgue measurable?
â celtschk
Jul 12 '15 at 8:29
1
Please give a cite, or literature for that answer!!!!! It is a big deal to say something like that.
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:36
I found a cite for this result, but I can't say if it is acurete or not: math.boku.ac.at/udt/vol09/no2/06filsus.pdf
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 15:05
4
4
How do you know that the set of non-normal numbers is Lebesgue measurable?
â celtschk
Jul 12 '15 at 8:29
How do you know that the set of non-normal numbers is Lebesgue measurable?
â celtschk
Jul 12 '15 at 8:29
1
1
Please give a cite, or literature for that answer!!!!! It is a big deal to say something like that.
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:36
Please give a cite, or literature for that answer!!!!! It is a big deal to say something like that.
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 14:36
I found a cite for this result, but I can't say if it is acurete or not: math.boku.ac.at/udt/vol09/no2/06filsus.pdf
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 15:05
I found a cite for this result, but I can't say if it is acurete or not: math.boku.ac.at/udt/vol09/no2/06filsus.pdf
â Ernesto Iglesias
Feb 15 '17 at 15:05
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
Yes and no. Yes, any non-repeating infinite sequence can be translated into an ascii representation of random gibberish, which will of course randomly contain everything. No, that isn't particularly amazing or useful, because whatever message you are looking for is also mistated and refuted an infinite number of times.
(For those that say that it isn't necessarily normal, that is unnecessary as the transformation into ascii can be as complex as you like in order to get the result you desire).
11
If you allow arbitrarily complex encodings, you get the same result with 0 as with pi.
â dhasenan
Oct 19 '12 at 18:49
1
@dhasenan: that's not complex, that is just eliminating the value you are supposedly encoding and replacing it with a non-repeating infinite sequence.
â jmoreno
Oct 21 '12 at 22:58
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
Yes and no. Yes, any non-repeating infinite sequence can be translated into an ascii representation of random gibberish, which will of course randomly contain everything. No, that isn't particularly amazing or useful, because whatever message you are looking for is also mistated and refuted an infinite number of times.
(For those that say that it isn't necessarily normal, that is unnecessary as the transformation into ascii can be as complex as you like in order to get the result you desire).
11
If you allow arbitrarily complex encodings, you get the same result with 0 as with pi.
â dhasenan
Oct 19 '12 at 18:49
1
@dhasenan: that's not complex, that is just eliminating the value you are supposedly encoding and replacing it with a non-repeating infinite sequence.
â jmoreno
Oct 21 '12 at 22:58
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
up vote
13
down vote
Yes and no. Yes, any non-repeating infinite sequence can be translated into an ascii representation of random gibberish, which will of course randomly contain everything. No, that isn't particularly amazing or useful, because whatever message you are looking for is also mistated and refuted an infinite number of times.
(For those that say that it isn't necessarily normal, that is unnecessary as the transformation into ascii can be as complex as you like in order to get the result you desire).
Yes and no. Yes, any non-repeating infinite sequence can be translated into an ascii representation of random gibberish, which will of course randomly contain everything. No, that isn't particularly amazing or useful, because whatever message you are looking for is also mistated and refuted an infinite number of times.
(For those that say that it isn't necessarily normal, that is unnecessary as the transformation into ascii can be as complex as you like in order to get the result you desire).
answered Oct 19 '12 at 1:20
jmoreno
34117
34117
11
If you allow arbitrarily complex encodings, you get the same result with 0 as with pi.
â dhasenan
Oct 19 '12 at 18:49
1
@dhasenan: that's not complex, that is just eliminating the value you are supposedly encoding and replacing it with a non-repeating infinite sequence.
â jmoreno
Oct 21 '12 at 22:58
add a comment |Â
11
If you allow arbitrarily complex encodings, you get the same result with 0 as with pi.
â dhasenan
Oct 19 '12 at 18:49
1
@dhasenan: that's not complex, that is just eliminating the value you are supposedly encoding and replacing it with a non-repeating infinite sequence.
â jmoreno
Oct 21 '12 at 22:58
11
11
If you allow arbitrarily complex encodings, you get the same result with 0 as with pi.
â dhasenan
Oct 19 '12 at 18:49
If you allow arbitrarily complex encodings, you get the same result with 0 as with pi.
â dhasenan
Oct 19 '12 at 18:49
1
1
@dhasenan: that's not complex, that is just eliminating the value you are supposedly encoding and replacing it with a non-repeating infinite sequence.
â jmoreno
Oct 21 '12 at 22:58
@dhasenan: that's not complex, that is just eliminating the value you are supposedly encoding and replacing it with a non-repeating infinite sequence.
â jmoreno
Oct 21 '12 at 22:58
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
That image contains a number of factual errors, but the most important one is the misleading assertion that irrationality implies disjunctiveness.
One can easily construct an non-disjunctive, irrational number. Let $ r = sumlimits_n = 0^infty 2^-n begincases 1 & textif 2 | n \ s_n & textelse endcases $ for any non-periodic sequence $ s_n in 0,1 $.
It is not known whether $ pi $ is, in fact, disjunctive (or even normal).
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
That image contains a number of factual errors, but the most important one is the misleading assertion that irrationality implies disjunctiveness.
One can easily construct an non-disjunctive, irrational number. Let $ r = sumlimits_n = 0^infty 2^-n begincases 1 & textif 2 | n \ s_n & textelse endcases $ for any non-periodic sequence $ s_n in 0,1 $.
It is not known whether $ pi $ is, in fact, disjunctive (or even normal).
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
That image contains a number of factual errors, but the most important one is the misleading assertion that irrationality implies disjunctiveness.
One can easily construct an non-disjunctive, irrational number. Let $ r = sumlimits_n = 0^infty 2^-n begincases 1 & textif 2 | n \ s_n & textelse endcases $ for any non-periodic sequence $ s_n in 0,1 $.
It is not known whether $ pi $ is, in fact, disjunctive (or even normal).
That image contains a number of factual errors, but the most important one is the misleading assertion that irrationality implies disjunctiveness.
One can easily construct an non-disjunctive, irrational number. Let $ r = sumlimits_n = 0^infty 2^-n begincases 1 & textif 2 | n \ s_n & textelse endcases $ for any non-periodic sequence $ s_n in 0,1 $.
It is not known whether $ pi $ is, in fact, disjunctive (or even normal).
edited Nov 4 '16 at 13:05
Michael Rozenberg
88.4k1579180
88.4k1579180
answered Jul 20 '16 at 10:11
M. Fischer
850413
850413
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
-4
down vote
This question is more of probability and if this is true for $pi$ then it must also be true for $sqrt2%$ $sqrt3%$ etc. as they are also irrational.
It is also similar as saying that every person has a copy in some part of world which is totally probabilistic and cannot be proved
this is the exact answer it must be upvoted
â Abhishek
May 13 at 9:18
2
This is wrong. The number $0.1011011101111...$ which consists of strings of 1s of length $n$ for all positive integer $n$ separated by 0s definitely does not contain all possible sequences of digits but is irrational. This is not a probabilistic question, as numbers such as $pi$ are uniquely defined and not "random events" (whatever this would mean for numbers). What you are thinking of is normal numbers.
â Isky Mathews
May 13 at 14:44
your number is irrational but we can be sure that it contains only $0$'s and $1$'s but in$pi$ all digits occur and any combination may occur
â Abhishek
May 14 at 2:45
add a comment |Â
up vote
-4
down vote
This question is more of probability and if this is true for $pi$ then it must also be true for $sqrt2%$ $sqrt3%$ etc. as they are also irrational.
It is also similar as saying that every person has a copy in some part of world which is totally probabilistic and cannot be proved
this is the exact answer it must be upvoted
â Abhishek
May 13 at 9:18
2
This is wrong. The number $0.1011011101111...$ which consists of strings of 1s of length $n$ for all positive integer $n$ separated by 0s definitely does not contain all possible sequences of digits but is irrational. This is not a probabilistic question, as numbers such as $pi$ are uniquely defined and not "random events" (whatever this would mean for numbers). What you are thinking of is normal numbers.
â Isky Mathews
May 13 at 14:44
your number is irrational but we can be sure that it contains only $0$'s and $1$'s but in$pi$ all digits occur and any combination may occur
â Abhishek
May 14 at 2:45
add a comment |Â
up vote
-4
down vote
up vote
-4
down vote
This question is more of probability and if this is true for $pi$ then it must also be true for $sqrt2%$ $sqrt3%$ etc. as they are also irrational.
It is also similar as saying that every person has a copy in some part of world which is totally probabilistic and cannot be proved
This question is more of probability and if this is true for $pi$ then it must also be true for $sqrt2%$ $sqrt3%$ etc. as they are also irrational.
It is also similar as saying that every person has a copy in some part of world which is totally probabilistic and cannot be proved
answered May 13 at 9:08
Abhishek
256221
256221
this is the exact answer it must be upvoted
â Abhishek
May 13 at 9:18
2
This is wrong. The number $0.1011011101111...$ which consists of strings of 1s of length $n$ for all positive integer $n$ separated by 0s definitely does not contain all possible sequences of digits but is irrational. This is not a probabilistic question, as numbers such as $pi$ are uniquely defined and not "random events" (whatever this would mean for numbers). What you are thinking of is normal numbers.
â Isky Mathews
May 13 at 14:44
your number is irrational but we can be sure that it contains only $0$'s and $1$'s but in$pi$ all digits occur and any combination may occur
â Abhishek
May 14 at 2:45
add a comment |Â
this is the exact answer it must be upvoted
â Abhishek
May 13 at 9:18
2
This is wrong. The number $0.1011011101111...$ which consists of strings of 1s of length $n$ for all positive integer $n$ separated by 0s definitely does not contain all possible sequences of digits but is irrational. This is not a probabilistic question, as numbers such as $pi$ are uniquely defined and not "random events" (whatever this would mean for numbers). What you are thinking of is normal numbers.
â Isky Mathews
May 13 at 14:44
your number is irrational but we can be sure that it contains only $0$'s and $1$'s but in$pi$ all digits occur and any combination may occur
â Abhishek
May 14 at 2:45
this is the exact answer it must be upvoted
â Abhishek
May 13 at 9:18
this is the exact answer it must be upvoted
â Abhishek
May 13 at 9:18
2
2
This is wrong. The number $0.1011011101111...$ which consists of strings of 1s of length $n$ for all positive integer $n$ separated by 0s definitely does not contain all possible sequences of digits but is irrational. This is not a probabilistic question, as numbers such as $pi$ are uniquely defined and not "random events" (whatever this would mean for numbers). What you are thinking of is normal numbers.
â Isky Mathews
May 13 at 14:44
This is wrong. The number $0.1011011101111...$ which consists of strings of 1s of length $n$ for all positive integer $n$ separated by 0s definitely does not contain all possible sequences of digits but is irrational. This is not a probabilistic question, as numbers such as $pi$ are uniquely defined and not "random events" (whatever this would mean for numbers). What you are thinking of is normal numbers.
â Isky Mathews
May 13 at 14:44
your number is irrational but we can be sure that it contains only $0$'s and $1$'s but in$pi$ all digits occur and any combination may occur
â Abhishek
May 14 at 2:45
your number is irrational but we can be sure that it contains only $0$'s and $1$'s but in$pi$ all digits occur and any combination may occur
â Abhishek
May 14 at 2:45
add a comment |Â
protected by Qiaochu Yuan Oct 18 '12 at 22:30
Thank you for your interest in this question.
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61
This is unknown. All that is known about $pi$ is that it is transcendental. askamathematician.com/2009/11/â¦
â picakhu
Oct 18 '12 at 14:38
15
This is the assertion that $pi$ is base $8$ normal. Whether it is true is not known. But it is known that "most" numbers are normal to every base.
â André Nicolas
Oct 18 '12 at 14:40
73
It's not just the assertion that $pi$ is normal. It also asserts that it is normal because its expansions is infinite and nonrepeating. And that's just plain false.
â Chris Eagle
Oct 18 '12 at 14:41
35
What is certain, is that the 94 first digits of pi do indeed contain the answer to all the great questions of the universe
â mivk
Oct 18 '12 at 15:36
16
The assertion is strictly weaker than normality. It only says each string occurs once. This implies infinitely many occurrences but not equidistribution.
â Erick Wong
Oct 18 '12 at 17:44