Is this proof for if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$ correct?
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I'm reading the book 'How to prove it' from Daniel Velleman which he presents a proof for the following; if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$ as;
Proof. Suppose $0 < a < b$. Multiplying the inequality $a < b$ by the positive number $a$ we can conclude that $a^2 < ab$, and similarly multiplying by $b$ we get $ab < b^2$. Therfore $a^2 < ab < b^2$, as required. Thus if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$.
However, I was also wondering if the statement could be proved using the following method.
Proof. Suppose that $0 < a < b$. Taking the square root of both sides of the inequality $sqrta^2 < sqrtb^2$ we get our original hypothesis $a < b$ . Thus if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$.
proof-verification proof-theory
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up vote
3
down vote
favorite
I'm reading the book 'How to prove it' from Daniel Velleman which he presents a proof for the following; if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$ as;
Proof. Suppose $0 < a < b$. Multiplying the inequality $a < b$ by the positive number $a$ we can conclude that $a^2 < ab$, and similarly multiplying by $b$ we get $ab < b^2$. Therfore $a^2 < ab < b^2$, as required. Thus if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$.
However, I was also wondering if the statement could be proved using the following method.
Proof. Suppose that $0 < a < b$. Taking the square root of both sides of the inequality $sqrta^2 < sqrtb^2$ we get our original hypothesis $a < b$ . Thus if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$.
proof-verification proof-theory
1
The direction is reversed. $p implies q$ and $q implies p$ are different.
â xbh
Aug 29 at 10:30
Ok I see. Thank you for pointing that out.
â redbandit
Aug 29 at 10:32
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
I'm reading the book 'How to prove it' from Daniel Velleman which he presents a proof for the following; if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$ as;
Proof. Suppose $0 < a < b$. Multiplying the inequality $a < b$ by the positive number $a$ we can conclude that $a^2 < ab$, and similarly multiplying by $b$ we get $ab < b^2$. Therfore $a^2 < ab < b^2$, as required. Thus if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$.
However, I was also wondering if the statement could be proved using the following method.
Proof. Suppose that $0 < a < b$. Taking the square root of both sides of the inequality $sqrta^2 < sqrtb^2$ we get our original hypothesis $a < b$ . Thus if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$.
proof-verification proof-theory
I'm reading the book 'How to prove it' from Daniel Velleman which he presents a proof for the following; if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$ as;
Proof. Suppose $0 < a < b$. Multiplying the inequality $a < b$ by the positive number $a$ we can conclude that $a^2 < ab$, and similarly multiplying by $b$ we get $ab < b^2$. Therfore $a^2 < ab < b^2$, as required. Thus if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$.
However, I was also wondering if the statement could be proved using the following method.
Proof. Suppose that $0 < a < b$. Taking the square root of both sides of the inequality $sqrta^2 < sqrtb^2$ we get our original hypothesis $a < b$ . Thus if $0 < a < b$ then $a^2 < b^2$.
proof-verification proof-theory
asked Aug 29 at 10:28
redbandit
1233
1233
1
The direction is reversed. $p implies q$ and $q implies p$ are different.
â xbh
Aug 29 at 10:30
Ok I see. Thank you for pointing that out.
â redbandit
Aug 29 at 10:32
add a comment |Â
1
The direction is reversed. $p implies q$ and $q implies p$ are different.
â xbh
Aug 29 at 10:30
Ok I see. Thank you for pointing that out.
â redbandit
Aug 29 at 10:32
1
1
The direction is reversed. $p implies q$ and $q implies p$ are different.
â xbh
Aug 29 at 10:30
The direction is reversed. $p implies q$ and $q implies p$ are different.
â xbh
Aug 29 at 10:30
Ok I see. Thank you for pointing that out.
â redbandit
Aug 29 at 10:32
Ok I see. Thank you for pointing that out.
â redbandit
Aug 29 at 10:32
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
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In the proof from the book you presented, you've assumed $0<a<b$ and deduced $a^2<b^2$.
In your presented proof, you've essentially assumed $a^2<b^2$ and deduced $a<b$. Why? The hypothesis $0<a<b$ is never used and by taking the square root of $a^2<b^2$, you implicitly assume that statement, deducing $a<b$ from it.
Thus, conceptually you have shown $BRightarrow A$ for the corresponding statements $A,B$, i.e. you have established $ALeftrightarrow B$ using $ARightarrow B$ from the previous proof.
EDIT: As discussed with Ennar in the comments, there are additionally some issues with deducing $a<b$ from $a^2<b^2$ as it requires the square root function to be monotone, a property that follows from the fact the the square function is monotone on $[0,infty)$. Then of course, you can not establish $BRightarrow A$ without first establishing $ARightarrow B$, i.e. there is another circularity of reasoning.
As you can see, there are even more implicit assumptions than I had initially pointed out.
Actually, I'm not convinced that the proof of $a^2<b^2$ implies $a<b$ isn't circular. How does one know that square root is monotone without knowing that squaring is monotone (on positive numbers)?
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:08
@Ennar This is another problem, yes. I just wanted to elaborate the concept assuming something implicitly and that the hypothesis is not just what you state it is(necessarily).
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:11
I understand and it's a good answer, but your last row can be misleading to OP who is probably first time learning how to write proofs.
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:14
@Ennar I think you're right, I'll add this in.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:18
@Ennar Feel free to also edit my answer if you have other improvements. I've tried to convey this point as good(and short) as possible.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:25
 |Â
show 1 more comment
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
In the proof from the book you presented, you've assumed $0<a<b$ and deduced $a^2<b^2$.
In your presented proof, you've essentially assumed $a^2<b^2$ and deduced $a<b$. Why? The hypothesis $0<a<b$ is never used and by taking the square root of $a^2<b^2$, you implicitly assume that statement, deducing $a<b$ from it.
Thus, conceptually you have shown $BRightarrow A$ for the corresponding statements $A,B$, i.e. you have established $ALeftrightarrow B$ using $ARightarrow B$ from the previous proof.
EDIT: As discussed with Ennar in the comments, there are additionally some issues with deducing $a<b$ from $a^2<b^2$ as it requires the square root function to be monotone, a property that follows from the fact the the square function is monotone on $[0,infty)$. Then of course, you can not establish $BRightarrow A$ without first establishing $ARightarrow B$, i.e. there is another circularity of reasoning.
As you can see, there are even more implicit assumptions than I had initially pointed out.
Actually, I'm not convinced that the proof of $a^2<b^2$ implies $a<b$ isn't circular. How does one know that square root is monotone without knowing that squaring is monotone (on positive numbers)?
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:08
@Ennar This is another problem, yes. I just wanted to elaborate the concept assuming something implicitly and that the hypothesis is not just what you state it is(necessarily).
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:11
I understand and it's a good answer, but your last row can be misleading to OP who is probably first time learning how to write proofs.
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:14
@Ennar I think you're right, I'll add this in.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:18
@Ennar Feel free to also edit my answer if you have other improvements. I've tried to convey this point as good(and short) as possible.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:25
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
4
down vote
In the proof from the book you presented, you've assumed $0<a<b$ and deduced $a^2<b^2$.
In your presented proof, you've essentially assumed $a^2<b^2$ and deduced $a<b$. Why? The hypothesis $0<a<b$ is never used and by taking the square root of $a^2<b^2$, you implicitly assume that statement, deducing $a<b$ from it.
Thus, conceptually you have shown $BRightarrow A$ for the corresponding statements $A,B$, i.e. you have established $ALeftrightarrow B$ using $ARightarrow B$ from the previous proof.
EDIT: As discussed with Ennar in the comments, there are additionally some issues with deducing $a<b$ from $a^2<b^2$ as it requires the square root function to be monotone, a property that follows from the fact the the square function is monotone on $[0,infty)$. Then of course, you can not establish $BRightarrow A$ without first establishing $ARightarrow B$, i.e. there is another circularity of reasoning.
As you can see, there are even more implicit assumptions than I had initially pointed out.
Actually, I'm not convinced that the proof of $a^2<b^2$ implies $a<b$ isn't circular. How does one know that square root is monotone without knowing that squaring is monotone (on positive numbers)?
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:08
@Ennar This is another problem, yes. I just wanted to elaborate the concept assuming something implicitly and that the hypothesis is not just what you state it is(necessarily).
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:11
I understand and it's a good answer, but your last row can be misleading to OP who is probably first time learning how to write proofs.
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:14
@Ennar I think you're right, I'll add this in.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:18
@Ennar Feel free to also edit my answer if you have other improvements. I've tried to convey this point as good(and short) as possible.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:25
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
In the proof from the book you presented, you've assumed $0<a<b$ and deduced $a^2<b^2$.
In your presented proof, you've essentially assumed $a^2<b^2$ and deduced $a<b$. Why? The hypothesis $0<a<b$ is never used and by taking the square root of $a^2<b^2$, you implicitly assume that statement, deducing $a<b$ from it.
Thus, conceptually you have shown $BRightarrow A$ for the corresponding statements $A,B$, i.e. you have established $ALeftrightarrow B$ using $ARightarrow B$ from the previous proof.
EDIT: As discussed with Ennar in the comments, there are additionally some issues with deducing $a<b$ from $a^2<b^2$ as it requires the square root function to be monotone, a property that follows from the fact the the square function is monotone on $[0,infty)$. Then of course, you can not establish $BRightarrow A$ without first establishing $ARightarrow B$, i.e. there is another circularity of reasoning.
As you can see, there are even more implicit assumptions than I had initially pointed out.
In the proof from the book you presented, you've assumed $0<a<b$ and deduced $a^2<b^2$.
In your presented proof, you've essentially assumed $a^2<b^2$ and deduced $a<b$. Why? The hypothesis $0<a<b$ is never used and by taking the square root of $a^2<b^2$, you implicitly assume that statement, deducing $a<b$ from it.
Thus, conceptually you have shown $BRightarrow A$ for the corresponding statements $A,B$, i.e. you have established $ALeftrightarrow B$ using $ARightarrow B$ from the previous proof.
EDIT: As discussed with Ennar in the comments, there are additionally some issues with deducing $a<b$ from $a^2<b^2$ as it requires the square root function to be monotone, a property that follows from the fact the the square function is monotone on $[0,infty)$. Then of course, you can not establish $BRightarrow A$ without first establishing $ARightarrow B$, i.e. there is another circularity of reasoning.
As you can see, there are even more implicit assumptions than I had initially pointed out.
edited Aug 29 at 11:24
answered Aug 29 at 10:32
zzuussee
2,480625
2,480625
Actually, I'm not convinced that the proof of $a^2<b^2$ implies $a<b$ isn't circular. How does one know that square root is monotone without knowing that squaring is monotone (on positive numbers)?
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:08
@Ennar This is another problem, yes. I just wanted to elaborate the concept assuming something implicitly and that the hypothesis is not just what you state it is(necessarily).
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:11
I understand and it's a good answer, but your last row can be misleading to OP who is probably first time learning how to write proofs.
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:14
@Ennar I think you're right, I'll add this in.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:18
@Ennar Feel free to also edit my answer if you have other improvements. I've tried to convey this point as good(and short) as possible.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:25
 |Â
show 1 more comment
Actually, I'm not convinced that the proof of $a^2<b^2$ implies $a<b$ isn't circular. How does one know that square root is monotone without knowing that squaring is monotone (on positive numbers)?
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:08
@Ennar This is another problem, yes. I just wanted to elaborate the concept assuming something implicitly and that the hypothesis is not just what you state it is(necessarily).
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:11
I understand and it's a good answer, but your last row can be misleading to OP who is probably first time learning how to write proofs.
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:14
@Ennar I think you're right, I'll add this in.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:18
@Ennar Feel free to also edit my answer if you have other improvements. I've tried to convey this point as good(and short) as possible.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:25
Actually, I'm not convinced that the proof of $a^2<b^2$ implies $a<b$ isn't circular. How does one know that square root is monotone without knowing that squaring is monotone (on positive numbers)?
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:08
Actually, I'm not convinced that the proof of $a^2<b^2$ implies $a<b$ isn't circular. How does one know that square root is monotone without knowing that squaring is monotone (on positive numbers)?
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:08
@Ennar This is another problem, yes. I just wanted to elaborate the concept assuming something implicitly and that the hypothesis is not just what you state it is(necessarily).
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:11
@Ennar This is another problem, yes. I just wanted to elaborate the concept assuming something implicitly and that the hypothesis is not just what you state it is(necessarily).
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:11
I understand and it's a good answer, but your last row can be misleading to OP who is probably first time learning how to write proofs.
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:14
I understand and it's a good answer, but your last row can be misleading to OP who is probably first time learning how to write proofs.
â Ennar
Aug 29 at 11:14
@Ennar I think you're right, I'll add this in.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:18
@Ennar I think you're right, I'll add this in.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:18
@Ennar Feel free to also edit my answer if you have other improvements. I've tried to convey this point as good(and short) as possible.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:25
@Ennar Feel free to also edit my answer if you have other improvements. I've tried to convey this point as good(and short) as possible.
â zzuussee
Aug 29 at 11:25
 |Â
show 1 more comment
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1
The direction is reversed. $p implies q$ and $q implies p$ are different.
â xbh
Aug 29 at 10:30
Ok I see. Thank you for pointing that out.
â redbandit
Aug 29 at 10:32