Finding derivative given $f(x)$ and limit

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1












this is my very first post here. I'm a longtime lurker, I have learned a lot from this site and I hope I can, even though I'm still a student, be of any help to others.
I have been working on the following exercise. Given:
$ f(4) = a, f'(4) = b
$ and
$$ lim_xto 2 = f(3x-2)-5 over (x^2-4) = 9$$
Find a and b.
I already found the value of $a$ following this reasoning: $f(4)$ must be such a value that, when replaced in the given limit, yields zero; otherwise, the limit won't be $9$ but infinity. Under the assumption that I can factor the denominator easily -and simplify $(x-2)$ from $f(x)$ I found $a=f(4)=5$ and it coincides with the answer. I have, however, no reasonable clue of how to approach the $f'(4)=b$ part. All the information I seem to have is that the derivative is continuous, and that $(x-2)$ must be a factor of $f(x)$ .If it's derivative is continuous over Reals, then I infer that it is not a rational function. But I still cant see the right path towards the solution.
I'd be extremely grateful if someone could give me a hint, so I can work it out by myself



Thanks in advance!










share|cite|improve this question























  • You can use L'Hopital's rule in the limit.
    – SMM
    Sep 10 at 20:17










  • @artem Is the fact that $f$ is $C^1$ an actual hypothesis, or is it a guess of yours (and you seem to have it)?
    – Saucy O'Path
    Sep 10 at 20:24











  • @SaucyO'Path Actually Artem mentioned that he has the information that the derivative is continuous.
    – SMM
    Sep 10 at 20:24














up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1












this is my very first post here. I'm a longtime lurker, I have learned a lot from this site and I hope I can, even though I'm still a student, be of any help to others.
I have been working on the following exercise. Given:
$ f(4) = a, f'(4) = b
$ and
$$ lim_xto 2 = f(3x-2)-5 over (x^2-4) = 9$$
Find a and b.
I already found the value of $a$ following this reasoning: $f(4)$ must be such a value that, when replaced in the given limit, yields zero; otherwise, the limit won't be $9$ but infinity. Under the assumption that I can factor the denominator easily -and simplify $(x-2)$ from $f(x)$ I found $a=f(4)=5$ and it coincides with the answer. I have, however, no reasonable clue of how to approach the $f'(4)=b$ part. All the information I seem to have is that the derivative is continuous, and that $(x-2)$ must be a factor of $f(x)$ .If it's derivative is continuous over Reals, then I infer that it is not a rational function. But I still cant see the right path towards the solution.
I'd be extremely grateful if someone could give me a hint, so I can work it out by myself



Thanks in advance!










share|cite|improve this question























  • You can use L'Hopital's rule in the limit.
    – SMM
    Sep 10 at 20:17










  • @artem Is the fact that $f$ is $C^1$ an actual hypothesis, or is it a guess of yours (and you seem to have it)?
    – Saucy O'Path
    Sep 10 at 20:24











  • @SaucyO'Path Actually Artem mentioned that he has the information that the derivative is continuous.
    – SMM
    Sep 10 at 20:24












up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1






1





this is my very first post here. I'm a longtime lurker, I have learned a lot from this site and I hope I can, even though I'm still a student, be of any help to others.
I have been working on the following exercise. Given:
$ f(4) = a, f'(4) = b
$ and
$$ lim_xto 2 = f(3x-2)-5 over (x^2-4) = 9$$
Find a and b.
I already found the value of $a$ following this reasoning: $f(4)$ must be such a value that, when replaced in the given limit, yields zero; otherwise, the limit won't be $9$ but infinity. Under the assumption that I can factor the denominator easily -and simplify $(x-2)$ from $f(x)$ I found $a=f(4)=5$ and it coincides with the answer. I have, however, no reasonable clue of how to approach the $f'(4)=b$ part. All the information I seem to have is that the derivative is continuous, and that $(x-2)$ must be a factor of $f(x)$ .If it's derivative is continuous over Reals, then I infer that it is not a rational function. But I still cant see the right path towards the solution.
I'd be extremely grateful if someone could give me a hint, so I can work it out by myself



Thanks in advance!










share|cite|improve this question















this is my very first post here. I'm a longtime lurker, I have learned a lot from this site and I hope I can, even though I'm still a student, be of any help to others.
I have been working on the following exercise. Given:
$ f(4) = a, f'(4) = b
$ and
$$ lim_xto 2 = f(3x-2)-5 over (x^2-4) = 9$$
Find a and b.
I already found the value of $a$ following this reasoning: $f(4)$ must be such a value that, when replaced in the given limit, yields zero; otherwise, the limit won't be $9$ but infinity. Under the assumption that I can factor the denominator easily -and simplify $(x-2)$ from $f(x)$ I found $a=f(4)=5$ and it coincides with the answer. I have, however, no reasonable clue of how to approach the $f'(4)=b$ part. All the information I seem to have is that the derivative is continuous, and that $(x-2)$ must be a factor of $f(x)$ .If it's derivative is continuous over Reals, then I infer that it is not a rational function. But I still cant see the right path towards the solution.
I'd be extremely grateful if someone could give me a hint, so I can work it out by myself



Thanks in advance!







functions derivatives






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Sep 10 at 20:28









mechanodroid

24.7k62245




24.7k62245










asked Sep 10 at 20:14









Artem

303




303











  • You can use L'Hopital's rule in the limit.
    – SMM
    Sep 10 at 20:17










  • @artem Is the fact that $f$ is $C^1$ an actual hypothesis, or is it a guess of yours (and you seem to have it)?
    – Saucy O'Path
    Sep 10 at 20:24











  • @SaucyO'Path Actually Artem mentioned that he has the information that the derivative is continuous.
    – SMM
    Sep 10 at 20:24
















  • You can use L'Hopital's rule in the limit.
    – SMM
    Sep 10 at 20:17










  • @artem Is the fact that $f$ is $C^1$ an actual hypothesis, or is it a guess of yours (and you seem to have it)?
    – Saucy O'Path
    Sep 10 at 20:24











  • @SaucyO'Path Actually Artem mentioned that he has the information that the derivative is continuous.
    – SMM
    Sep 10 at 20:24















You can use L'Hopital's rule in the limit.
– SMM
Sep 10 at 20:17




You can use L'Hopital's rule in the limit.
– SMM
Sep 10 at 20:17












@artem Is the fact that $f$ is $C^1$ an actual hypothesis, or is it a guess of yours (and you seem to have it)?
– Saucy O'Path
Sep 10 at 20:24





@artem Is the fact that $f$ is $C^1$ an actual hypothesis, or is it a guess of yours (and you seem to have it)?
– Saucy O'Path
Sep 10 at 20:24













@SaucyO'Path Actually Artem mentioned that he has the information that the derivative is continuous.
– SMM
Sep 10 at 20:24




@SaucyO'Path Actually Artem mentioned that he has the information that the derivative is continuous.
– SMM
Sep 10 at 20:24










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote



accepted










Since $x^2-4 to 0$ and $f(3x-2)-5 to 0$ (due to the continuity of $f$ and the your conclusion that $f(4) = 5)$ as $x to 2$, L'Hospital's rule is applicable, and we get
$$ lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2 frac3f'(3x-2)2x = frac34f'(4). $$



EDIT: If you don't want to use L'Hospital's rule, then you can also notice that
$$ lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2 frac1x+2 cdotlim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x-2 = frac14 lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-f(4)x-2. $$
The latter limit is by definition the derivative of the function $g(x) = f(3x-2)$ at $x=2$, which, by the chain rule, is
$$ g'(2) = 3f'(4). $$






share|cite|improve this answer


















  • 1




    Just barely beat me to it (+1). And don't be sorry!
    – David G. Stork
    Sep 10 at 20:19











  • @DavidG.Stork Sorry about that, and thanks for the upvote! =)
    – Sobi
    Sep 10 at 20:20











  • You don't know that $f'$ is continuous at $4$.
    – egreg
    Sep 10 at 20:33










  • @egreg From the question: "... All the information I seem to have is that the derivative is continuous ..."
    – Sobi
    Sep 10 at 20:35






  • 1




    All of the answers were great. I choose your because it seems the more detailed.
    – Artem
    Sep 10 at 20:36

















up vote
1
down vote













Let $t = 3x-2$ so $x = fract+23$.



Then



$$9 = lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-f(4)(x-2)(x+2) = frac14 lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-f(4)x-2 = frac14 lim_t to 4fracf(t)-f(4)fract-43 = frac34 f'(4)$$






share|cite|improve this answer



























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    If $3x-2=y$, then easy algebra shows
    $$
    x^2-4=frac(y+8)(y-4)9
    $$
    and the given limit becomes
    $$
    lim_yto4fracf(y)-5y-4frac1y+8=1
    $$
    Since the limit is finite, we need $f(4)=5$; since $f'(4)=b$, the limit says
    $$
    fracb4+8=1
    $$
    so $b=12$.






    share|cite|improve this answer




















      Your Answer




      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
      );
      );
      , "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ready(function()
      var channelOptions =
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "69"
      ;
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
      createEditor();
      );

      else
      createEditor();

      );

      function createEditor()
      StackExchange.prepareEditor(
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      convertImagesToLinks: true,
      noModals: false,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: 10,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      );



      );













       

      draft saved


      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function ()
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2912297%2ffinding-derivative-given-fx-and-limit%23new-answer', 'question_page');

      );

      Post as a guest






























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      2
      down vote



      accepted










      Since $x^2-4 to 0$ and $f(3x-2)-5 to 0$ (due to the continuity of $f$ and the your conclusion that $f(4) = 5)$ as $x to 2$, L'Hospital's rule is applicable, and we get
      $$ lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2 frac3f'(3x-2)2x = frac34f'(4). $$



      EDIT: If you don't want to use L'Hospital's rule, then you can also notice that
      $$ lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2 frac1x+2 cdotlim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x-2 = frac14 lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-f(4)x-2. $$
      The latter limit is by definition the derivative of the function $g(x) = f(3x-2)$ at $x=2$, which, by the chain rule, is
      $$ g'(2) = 3f'(4). $$






      share|cite|improve this answer


















      • 1




        Just barely beat me to it (+1). And don't be sorry!
        – David G. Stork
        Sep 10 at 20:19











      • @DavidG.Stork Sorry about that, and thanks for the upvote! =)
        – Sobi
        Sep 10 at 20:20











      • You don't know that $f'$ is continuous at $4$.
        – egreg
        Sep 10 at 20:33










      • @egreg From the question: "... All the information I seem to have is that the derivative is continuous ..."
        – Sobi
        Sep 10 at 20:35






      • 1




        All of the answers were great. I choose your because it seems the more detailed.
        – Artem
        Sep 10 at 20:36














      up vote
      2
      down vote



      accepted










      Since $x^2-4 to 0$ and $f(3x-2)-5 to 0$ (due to the continuity of $f$ and the your conclusion that $f(4) = 5)$ as $x to 2$, L'Hospital's rule is applicable, and we get
      $$ lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2 frac3f'(3x-2)2x = frac34f'(4). $$



      EDIT: If you don't want to use L'Hospital's rule, then you can also notice that
      $$ lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2 frac1x+2 cdotlim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x-2 = frac14 lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-f(4)x-2. $$
      The latter limit is by definition the derivative of the function $g(x) = f(3x-2)$ at $x=2$, which, by the chain rule, is
      $$ g'(2) = 3f'(4). $$






      share|cite|improve this answer


















      • 1




        Just barely beat me to it (+1). And don't be sorry!
        – David G. Stork
        Sep 10 at 20:19











      • @DavidG.Stork Sorry about that, and thanks for the upvote! =)
        – Sobi
        Sep 10 at 20:20











      • You don't know that $f'$ is continuous at $4$.
        – egreg
        Sep 10 at 20:33










      • @egreg From the question: "... All the information I seem to have is that the derivative is continuous ..."
        – Sobi
        Sep 10 at 20:35






      • 1




        All of the answers were great. I choose your because it seems the more detailed.
        – Artem
        Sep 10 at 20:36












      up vote
      2
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      2
      down vote



      accepted






      Since $x^2-4 to 0$ and $f(3x-2)-5 to 0$ (due to the continuity of $f$ and the your conclusion that $f(4) = 5)$ as $x to 2$, L'Hospital's rule is applicable, and we get
      $$ lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2 frac3f'(3x-2)2x = frac34f'(4). $$



      EDIT: If you don't want to use L'Hospital's rule, then you can also notice that
      $$ lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2 frac1x+2 cdotlim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x-2 = frac14 lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-f(4)x-2. $$
      The latter limit is by definition the derivative of the function $g(x) = f(3x-2)$ at $x=2$, which, by the chain rule, is
      $$ g'(2) = 3f'(4). $$






      share|cite|improve this answer














      Since $x^2-4 to 0$ and $f(3x-2)-5 to 0$ (due to the continuity of $f$ and the your conclusion that $f(4) = 5)$ as $x to 2$, L'Hospital's rule is applicable, and we get
      $$ lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2 frac3f'(3x-2)2x = frac34f'(4). $$



      EDIT: If you don't want to use L'Hospital's rule, then you can also notice that
      $$ lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2 frac1x+2 cdotlim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-5x-2 = frac14 lim_xto 2 fracf(3x-2)-f(4)x-2. $$
      The latter limit is by definition the derivative of the function $g(x) = f(3x-2)$ at $x=2$, which, by the chain rule, is
      $$ g'(2) = 3f'(4). $$







      share|cite|improve this answer














      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited Sep 10 at 20:24

























      answered Sep 10 at 20:19









      Sobi

      2,915517




      2,915517







      • 1




        Just barely beat me to it (+1). And don't be sorry!
        – David G. Stork
        Sep 10 at 20:19











      • @DavidG.Stork Sorry about that, and thanks for the upvote! =)
        – Sobi
        Sep 10 at 20:20











      • You don't know that $f'$ is continuous at $4$.
        – egreg
        Sep 10 at 20:33










      • @egreg From the question: "... All the information I seem to have is that the derivative is continuous ..."
        – Sobi
        Sep 10 at 20:35






      • 1




        All of the answers were great. I choose your because it seems the more detailed.
        – Artem
        Sep 10 at 20:36












      • 1




        Just barely beat me to it (+1). And don't be sorry!
        – David G. Stork
        Sep 10 at 20:19











      • @DavidG.Stork Sorry about that, and thanks for the upvote! =)
        – Sobi
        Sep 10 at 20:20











      • You don't know that $f'$ is continuous at $4$.
        – egreg
        Sep 10 at 20:33










      • @egreg From the question: "... All the information I seem to have is that the derivative is continuous ..."
        – Sobi
        Sep 10 at 20:35






      • 1




        All of the answers were great. I choose your because it seems the more detailed.
        – Artem
        Sep 10 at 20:36







      1




      1




      Just barely beat me to it (+1). And don't be sorry!
      – David G. Stork
      Sep 10 at 20:19





      Just barely beat me to it (+1). And don't be sorry!
      – David G. Stork
      Sep 10 at 20:19













      @DavidG.Stork Sorry about that, and thanks for the upvote! =)
      – Sobi
      Sep 10 at 20:20





      @DavidG.Stork Sorry about that, and thanks for the upvote! =)
      – Sobi
      Sep 10 at 20:20













      You don't know that $f'$ is continuous at $4$.
      – egreg
      Sep 10 at 20:33




      You don't know that $f'$ is continuous at $4$.
      – egreg
      Sep 10 at 20:33












      @egreg From the question: "... All the information I seem to have is that the derivative is continuous ..."
      – Sobi
      Sep 10 at 20:35




      @egreg From the question: "... All the information I seem to have is that the derivative is continuous ..."
      – Sobi
      Sep 10 at 20:35




      1




      1




      All of the answers were great. I choose your because it seems the more detailed.
      – Artem
      Sep 10 at 20:36




      All of the answers were great. I choose your because it seems the more detailed.
      – Artem
      Sep 10 at 20:36










      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Let $t = 3x-2$ so $x = fract+23$.



      Then



      $$9 = lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-f(4)(x-2)(x+2) = frac14 lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-f(4)x-2 = frac14 lim_t to 4fracf(t)-f(4)fract-43 = frac34 f'(4)$$






      share|cite|improve this answer
























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        Let $t = 3x-2$ so $x = fract+23$.



        Then



        $$9 = lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-f(4)(x-2)(x+2) = frac14 lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-f(4)x-2 = frac14 lim_t to 4fracf(t)-f(4)fract-43 = frac34 f'(4)$$






        share|cite|improve this answer






















          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          Let $t = 3x-2$ so $x = fract+23$.



          Then



          $$9 = lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-f(4)(x-2)(x+2) = frac14 lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-f(4)x-2 = frac14 lim_t to 4fracf(t)-f(4)fract-43 = frac34 f'(4)$$






          share|cite|improve this answer












          Let $t = 3x-2$ so $x = fract+23$.



          Then



          $$9 = lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-5x^2-4 = lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-f(4)(x-2)(x+2) = frac14 lim_xto 2fracf(3x-2)-f(4)x-2 = frac14 lim_t to 4fracf(t)-f(4)fract-43 = frac34 f'(4)$$







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Sep 10 at 20:24









          mechanodroid

          24.7k62245




          24.7k62245




















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              If $3x-2=y$, then easy algebra shows
              $$
              x^2-4=frac(y+8)(y-4)9
              $$
              and the given limit becomes
              $$
              lim_yto4fracf(y)-5y-4frac1y+8=1
              $$
              Since the limit is finite, we need $f(4)=5$; since $f'(4)=b$, the limit says
              $$
              fracb4+8=1
              $$
              so $b=12$.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                If $3x-2=y$, then easy algebra shows
                $$
                x^2-4=frac(y+8)(y-4)9
                $$
                and the given limit becomes
                $$
                lim_yto4fracf(y)-5y-4frac1y+8=1
                $$
                Since the limit is finite, we need $f(4)=5$; since $f'(4)=b$, the limit says
                $$
                fracb4+8=1
                $$
                so $b=12$.






                share|cite|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  If $3x-2=y$, then easy algebra shows
                  $$
                  x^2-4=frac(y+8)(y-4)9
                  $$
                  and the given limit becomes
                  $$
                  lim_yto4fracf(y)-5y-4frac1y+8=1
                  $$
                  Since the limit is finite, we need $f(4)=5$; since $f'(4)=b$, the limit says
                  $$
                  fracb4+8=1
                  $$
                  so $b=12$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  If $3x-2=y$, then easy algebra shows
                  $$
                  x^2-4=frac(y+8)(y-4)9
                  $$
                  and the given limit becomes
                  $$
                  lim_yto4fracf(y)-5y-4frac1y+8=1
                  $$
                  Since the limit is finite, we need $f(4)=5$; since $f'(4)=b$, the limit says
                  $$
                  fracb4+8=1
                  $$
                  so $b=12$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Sep 10 at 20:30









                  egreg

                  168k1281190




                  168k1281190



























                       

                      draft saved


                      draft discarded















































                       


                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function ()
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2912297%2ffinding-derivative-given-fx-and-limit%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                      );

                      Post as a guest













































































                      這個網誌中的熱門文章

                      Why am i infinitely getting the same tweet with the Twitter Search API?

                      Is there any way to eliminate the singular point to solve this integral by hand or by approximations?

                      Strongly p-embedded subgroups and p-Sylow subgroups.