Does value of differentiation as infinity implies continuity?

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I come across Mean value theorem proof which is attached belowenter image description here



Which has an assumption that f has derivative (finite or infinite ) at each interior point and continuity is assumed at endpoint.

In proof assumption used that function f is continuous over whole interval.

But I am not convinced with fact that f has infinite derivative and continuous at that point .

I tried to use definition I get $|f(x)-f(y)|=|x-y|f'(c)$ one side is infinite how to show for continuity.


Also Is it possible to have function which every where derivation infinity?

I think question is wrong As I could not imagine function every where like a verticle line.
But Asking for in case exist?
Any help will be appreciated



Edit:
enter image description here



enter image description here



Sorry Everyone As In book already specified definition which already assume continuity of function to define the derivative.







share|cite|improve this question


















  • 2




    The theorem statement is certainly problematic. Taking $f(x)=x^2/3$ we have a continuous function with infinite derivative at $x=0$, but there is no solution to $f'(x)=0$ (despite the fact that $f(-1)=f(1)$ and so on). I expect they meant for the "infinite derivatives" to occur only at the endpoints.
    – lulu
    Aug 28 at 15:25







  • 1




    @lulu Is $f'(0)=+infty$ or $-infty$ in your example?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    Aug 28 at 15:34






  • 1




    Apostol, in his definition of infinite derivative, pre-supposes continuity at the point in question.
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Aug 28 at 15:39










  • How is "has infinite derivative" defined? Does $xmapsto operatornamesgn(x)$ have ininfite derivative at $0$ because $lim_hto 0fracoperatornamesgn(h)-operatornamesgn(0)h=+infty$ or does the very definition demand more?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    Aug 28 at 15:39







  • 1




    @LordSharktheUnknown Can you provide Apostol's definition? It seems, from the discussion, that he is using a non-standard definition. That might well be the source of the confusion.
    – lulu
    Aug 28 at 15:48














up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1












I come across Mean value theorem proof which is attached belowenter image description here



Which has an assumption that f has derivative (finite or infinite ) at each interior point and continuity is assumed at endpoint.

In proof assumption used that function f is continuous over whole interval.

But I am not convinced with fact that f has infinite derivative and continuous at that point .

I tried to use definition I get $|f(x)-f(y)|=|x-y|f'(c)$ one side is infinite how to show for continuity.


Also Is it possible to have function which every where derivation infinity?

I think question is wrong As I could not imagine function every where like a verticle line.
But Asking for in case exist?
Any help will be appreciated



Edit:
enter image description here



enter image description here



Sorry Everyone As In book already specified definition which already assume continuity of function to define the derivative.







share|cite|improve this question


















  • 2




    The theorem statement is certainly problematic. Taking $f(x)=x^2/3$ we have a continuous function with infinite derivative at $x=0$, but there is no solution to $f'(x)=0$ (despite the fact that $f(-1)=f(1)$ and so on). I expect they meant for the "infinite derivatives" to occur only at the endpoints.
    – lulu
    Aug 28 at 15:25







  • 1




    @lulu Is $f'(0)=+infty$ or $-infty$ in your example?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    Aug 28 at 15:34






  • 1




    Apostol, in his definition of infinite derivative, pre-supposes continuity at the point in question.
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Aug 28 at 15:39










  • How is "has infinite derivative" defined? Does $xmapsto operatornamesgn(x)$ have ininfite derivative at $0$ because $lim_hto 0fracoperatornamesgn(h)-operatornamesgn(0)h=+infty$ or does the very definition demand more?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    Aug 28 at 15:39







  • 1




    @LordSharktheUnknown Can you provide Apostol's definition? It seems, from the discussion, that he is using a non-standard definition. That might well be the source of the confusion.
    – lulu
    Aug 28 at 15:48












up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1






1





I come across Mean value theorem proof which is attached belowenter image description here



Which has an assumption that f has derivative (finite or infinite ) at each interior point and continuity is assumed at endpoint.

In proof assumption used that function f is continuous over whole interval.

But I am not convinced with fact that f has infinite derivative and continuous at that point .

I tried to use definition I get $|f(x)-f(y)|=|x-y|f'(c)$ one side is infinite how to show for continuity.


Also Is it possible to have function which every where derivation infinity?

I think question is wrong As I could not imagine function every where like a verticle line.
But Asking for in case exist?
Any help will be appreciated



Edit:
enter image description here



enter image description here



Sorry Everyone As In book already specified definition which already assume continuity of function to define the derivative.







share|cite|improve this question














I come across Mean value theorem proof which is attached belowenter image description here



Which has an assumption that f has derivative (finite or infinite ) at each interior point and continuity is assumed at endpoint.

In proof assumption used that function f is continuous over whole interval.

But I am not convinced with fact that f has infinite derivative and continuous at that point .

I tried to use definition I get $|f(x)-f(y)|=|x-y|f'(c)$ one side is infinite how to show for continuity.


Also Is it possible to have function which every where derivation infinity?

I think question is wrong As I could not imagine function every where like a verticle line.
But Asking for in case exist?
Any help will be appreciated



Edit:
enter image description here



enter image description here



Sorry Everyone As In book already specified definition which already assume continuity of function to define the derivative.









share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Aug 28 at 16:18

























asked Aug 28 at 15:16









SRJ

1




1







  • 2




    The theorem statement is certainly problematic. Taking $f(x)=x^2/3$ we have a continuous function with infinite derivative at $x=0$, but there is no solution to $f'(x)=0$ (despite the fact that $f(-1)=f(1)$ and so on). I expect they meant for the "infinite derivatives" to occur only at the endpoints.
    – lulu
    Aug 28 at 15:25







  • 1




    @lulu Is $f'(0)=+infty$ or $-infty$ in your example?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    Aug 28 at 15:34






  • 1




    Apostol, in his definition of infinite derivative, pre-supposes continuity at the point in question.
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Aug 28 at 15:39










  • How is "has infinite derivative" defined? Does $xmapsto operatornamesgn(x)$ have ininfite derivative at $0$ because $lim_hto 0fracoperatornamesgn(h)-operatornamesgn(0)h=+infty$ or does the very definition demand more?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    Aug 28 at 15:39







  • 1




    @LordSharktheUnknown Can you provide Apostol's definition? It seems, from the discussion, that he is using a non-standard definition. That might well be the source of the confusion.
    – lulu
    Aug 28 at 15:48












  • 2




    The theorem statement is certainly problematic. Taking $f(x)=x^2/3$ we have a continuous function with infinite derivative at $x=0$, but there is no solution to $f'(x)=0$ (despite the fact that $f(-1)=f(1)$ and so on). I expect they meant for the "infinite derivatives" to occur only at the endpoints.
    – lulu
    Aug 28 at 15:25







  • 1




    @lulu Is $f'(0)=+infty$ or $-infty$ in your example?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    Aug 28 at 15:34






  • 1




    Apostol, in his definition of infinite derivative, pre-supposes continuity at the point in question.
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Aug 28 at 15:39










  • How is "has infinite derivative" defined? Does $xmapsto operatornamesgn(x)$ have ininfite derivative at $0$ because $lim_hto 0fracoperatornamesgn(h)-operatornamesgn(0)h=+infty$ or does the very definition demand more?
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    Aug 28 at 15:39







  • 1




    @LordSharktheUnknown Can you provide Apostol's definition? It seems, from the discussion, that he is using a non-standard definition. That might well be the source of the confusion.
    – lulu
    Aug 28 at 15:48







2




2




The theorem statement is certainly problematic. Taking $f(x)=x^2/3$ we have a continuous function with infinite derivative at $x=0$, but there is no solution to $f'(x)=0$ (despite the fact that $f(-1)=f(1)$ and so on). I expect they meant for the "infinite derivatives" to occur only at the endpoints.
– lulu
Aug 28 at 15:25





The theorem statement is certainly problematic. Taking $f(x)=x^2/3$ we have a continuous function with infinite derivative at $x=0$, but there is no solution to $f'(x)=0$ (despite the fact that $f(-1)=f(1)$ and so on). I expect they meant for the "infinite derivatives" to occur only at the endpoints.
– lulu
Aug 28 at 15:25





1




1




@lulu Is $f'(0)=+infty$ or $-infty$ in your example?
– Hagen von Eitzen
Aug 28 at 15:34




@lulu Is $f'(0)=+infty$ or $-infty$ in your example?
– Hagen von Eitzen
Aug 28 at 15:34




1




1




Apostol, in his definition of infinite derivative, pre-supposes continuity at the point in question.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Aug 28 at 15:39




Apostol, in his definition of infinite derivative, pre-supposes continuity at the point in question.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Aug 28 at 15:39












How is "has infinite derivative" defined? Does $xmapsto operatornamesgn(x)$ have ininfite derivative at $0$ because $lim_hto 0fracoperatornamesgn(h)-operatornamesgn(0)h=+infty$ or does the very definition demand more?
– Hagen von Eitzen
Aug 28 at 15:39





How is "has infinite derivative" defined? Does $xmapsto operatornamesgn(x)$ have ininfite derivative at $0$ because $lim_hto 0fracoperatornamesgn(h)-operatornamesgn(0)h=+infty$ or does the very definition demand more?
– Hagen von Eitzen
Aug 28 at 15:39





1




1




@LordSharktheUnknown Can you provide Apostol's definition? It seems, from the discussion, that he is using a non-standard definition. That might well be the source of the confusion.
– lulu
Aug 28 at 15:48




@LordSharktheUnknown Can you provide Apostol's definition? It seems, from the discussion, that he is using a non-standard definition. That might well be the source of the confusion.
– lulu
Aug 28 at 15:48










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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up vote
2
down vote













Note: Below I'm assuming the usual definition of infinite derivatives, which is to say that $f'(0)=+infty$ if $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h=+infty$. I've been told that that's not the definition Apostol uses...



In the usual statement of Rolle's theorem we assume that $f$ is differentiable on $(a,b)$, which is to say it has a finite derivative.



You're right, the existence of an infinite derivative at a point does not imply continuity. And in fact a simple counterexample for that is also a counterexample to the theorem as stated: Define $f:[-1,1]toBbb R$ by
$$f(x)=begincases1-x,&(0<xle 1),
\0,&(x=0),
\-1-x,&(-1le x<0).endcases$$



Then $f$ satisfies all the hypotheses but there is no $x$ with $f'(x)=0$.



And of course it's easy to see where the proof fails: $f$ does not assume a max or min in $(-1,1)$.



What book did you find this nonsense in?



Note the theorem, with the usual definition of the derivative as above, becomes correct if we assume that $f$ is continuous on $[a,b]$.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Tom Apostol's Mathematical Analysis Sir...
    – SRJ
    Aug 28 at 15:35










  • According to Apostol's definition, this function does not have $f'(0)=infty$. Apostol's treatment, while eccentric, is sound.
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Aug 28 at 15:40










  • @LordSharktheUnknown Ok, what's Aposol's definition? The example I gave does satisfy $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h = +infty$.
    – David C. Ullrich
    Aug 28 at 15:43










  • @DavidC.Ullrich Basically it must be continuous before it can has an infinite derivative: the graph has a vertical tangent.
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Aug 28 at 15:44










  • @LordSharktheUnknown "Basically" schmasically. What's the definition?
    – David C. Ullrich
    Aug 28 at 15:46

















up vote
0
down vote













It seems that Apostol requires continuity at the points where the derivative becomes infinity. At all the other points, the derivative is a real number, and hence the function is continuous there. It follows that your function is continuous everywhere.






share|cite|improve this answer




















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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    2
    down vote













    Note: Below I'm assuming the usual definition of infinite derivatives, which is to say that $f'(0)=+infty$ if $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h=+infty$. I've been told that that's not the definition Apostol uses...



    In the usual statement of Rolle's theorem we assume that $f$ is differentiable on $(a,b)$, which is to say it has a finite derivative.



    You're right, the existence of an infinite derivative at a point does not imply continuity. And in fact a simple counterexample for that is also a counterexample to the theorem as stated: Define $f:[-1,1]toBbb R$ by
    $$f(x)=begincases1-x,&(0<xle 1),
    \0,&(x=0),
    \-1-x,&(-1le x<0).endcases$$



    Then $f$ satisfies all the hypotheses but there is no $x$ with $f'(x)=0$.



    And of course it's easy to see where the proof fails: $f$ does not assume a max or min in $(-1,1)$.



    What book did you find this nonsense in?



    Note the theorem, with the usual definition of the derivative as above, becomes correct if we assume that $f$ is continuous on $[a,b]$.






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • Tom Apostol's Mathematical Analysis Sir...
      – SRJ
      Aug 28 at 15:35










    • According to Apostol's definition, this function does not have $f'(0)=infty$. Apostol's treatment, while eccentric, is sound.
      – Lord Shark the Unknown
      Aug 28 at 15:40










    • @LordSharktheUnknown Ok, what's Aposol's definition? The example I gave does satisfy $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h = +infty$.
      – David C. Ullrich
      Aug 28 at 15:43










    • @DavidC.Ullrich Basically it must be continuous before it can has an infinite derivative: the graph has a vertical tangent.
      – Lord Shark the Unknown
      Aug 28 at 15:44










    • @LordSharktheUnknown "Basically" schmasically. What's the definition?
      – David C. Ullrich
      Aug 28 at 15:46














    up vote
    2
    down vote













    Note: Below I'm assuming the usual definition of infinite derivatives, which is to say that $f'(0)=+infty$ if $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h=+infty$. I've been told that that's not the definition Apostol uses...



    In the usual statement of Rolle's theorem we assume that $f$ is differentiable on $(a,b)$, which is to say it has a finite derivative.



    You're right, the existence of an infinite derivative at a point does not imply continuity. And in fact a simple counterexample for that is also a counterexample to the theorem as stated: Define $f:[-1,1]toBbb R$ by
    $$f(x)=begincases1-x,&(0<xle 1),
    \0,&(x=0),
    \-1-x,&(-1le x<0).endcases$$



    Then $f$ satisfies all the hypotheses but there is no $x$ with $f'(x)=0$.



    And of course it's easy to see where the proof fails: $f$ does not assume a max or min in $(-1,1)$.



    What book did you find this nonsense in?



    Note the theorem, with the usual definition of the derivative as above, becomes correct if we assume that $f$ is continuous on $[a,b]$.






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • Tom Apostol's Mathematical Analysis Sir...
      – SRJ
      Aug 28 at 15:35










    • According to Apostol's definition, this function does not have $f'(0)=infty$. Apostol's treatment, while eccentric, is sound.
      – Lord Shark the Unknown
      Aug 28 at 15:40










    • @LordSharktheUnknown Ok, what's Aposol's definition? The example I gave does satisfy $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h = +infty$.
      – David C. Ullrich
      Aug 28 at 15:43










    • @DavidC.Ullrich Basically it must be continuous before it can has an infinite derivative: the graph has a vertical tangent.
      – Lord Shark the Unknown
      Aug 28 at 15:44










    • @LordSharktheUnknown "Basically" schmasically. What's the definition?
      – David C. Ullrich
      Aug 28 at 15:46












    up vote
    2
    down vote










    up vote
    2
    down vote









    Note: Below I'm assuming the usual definition of infinite derivatives, which is to say that $f'(0)=+infty$ if $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h=+infty$. I've been told that that's not the definition Apostol uses...



    In the usual statement of Rolle's theorem we assume that $f$ is differentiable on $(a,b)$, which is to say it has a finite derivative.



    You're right, the existence of an infinite derivative at a point does not imply continuity. And in fact a simple counterexample for that is also a counterexample to the theorem as stated: Define $f:[-1,1]toBbb R$ by
    $$f(x)=begincases1-x,&(0<xle 1),
    \0,&(x=0),
    \-1-x,&(-1le x<0).endcases$$



    Then $f$ satisfies all the hypotheses but there is no $x$ with $f'(x)=0$.



    And of course it's easy to see where the proof fails: $f$ does not assume a max or min in $(-1,1)$.



    What book did you find this nonsense in?



    Note the theorem, with the usual definition of the derivative as above, becomes correct if we assume that $f$ is continuous on $[a,b]$.






    share|cite|improve this answer














    Note: Below I'm assuming the usual definition of infinite derivatives, which is to say that $f'(0)=+infty$ if $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h=+infty$. I've been told that that's not the definition Apostol uses...



    In the usual statement of Rolle's theorem we assume that $f$ is differentiable on $(a,b)$, which is to say it has a finite derivative.



    You're right, the existence of an infinite derivative at a point does not imply continuity. And in fact a simple counterexample for that is also a counterexample to the theorem as stated: Define $f:[-1,1]toBbb R$ by
    $$f(x)=begincases1-x,&(0<xle 1),
    \0,&(x=0),
    \-1-x,&(-1le x<0).endcases$$



    Then $f$ satisfies all the hypotheses but there is no $x$ with $f'(x)=0$.



    And of course it's easy to see where the proof fails: $f$ does not assume a max or min in $(-1,1)$.



    What book did you find this nonsense in?



    Note the theorem, with the usual definition of the derivative as above, becomes correct if we assume that $f$ is continuous on $[a,b]$.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Aug 28 at 15:45

























    answered Aug 28 at 15:33









    David C. Ullrich

    55.6k43787




    55.6k43787











    • Tom Apostol's Mathematical Analysis Sir...
      – SRJ
      Aug 28 at 15:35










    • According to Apostol's definition, this function does not have $f'(0)=infty$. Apostol's treatment, while eccentric, is sound.
      – Lord Shark the Unknown
      Aug 28 at 15:40










    • @LordSharktheUnknown Ok, what's Aposol's definition? The example I gave does satisfy $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h = +infty$.
      – David C. Ullrich
      Aug 28 at 15:43










    • @DavidC.Ullrich Basically it must be continuous before it can has an infinite derivative: the graph has a vertical tangent.
      – Lord Shark the Unknown
      Aug 28 at 15:44










    • @LordSharktheUnknown "Basically" schmasically. What's the definition?
      – David C. Ullrich
      Aug 28 at 15:46
















    • Tom Apostol's Mathematical Analysis Sir...
      – SRJ
      Aug 28 at 15:35










    • According to Apostol's definition, this function does not have $f'(0)=infty$. Apostol's treatment, while eccentric, is sound.
      – Lord Shark the Unknown
      Aug 28 at 15:40










    • @LordSharktheUnknown Ok, what's Aposol's definition? The example I gave does satisfy $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h = +infty$.
      – David C. Ullrich
      Aug 28 at 15:43










    • @DavidC.Ullrich Basically it must be continuous before it can has an infinite derivative: the graph has a vertical tangent.
      – Lord Shark the Unknown
      Aug 28 at 15:44










    • @LordSharktheUnknown "Basically" schmasically. What's the definition?
      – David C. Ullrich
      Aug 28 at 15:46















    Tom Apostol's Mathematical Analysis Sir...
    – SRJ
    Aug 28 at 15:35




    Tom Apostol's Mathematical Analysis Sir...
    – SRJ
    Aug 28 at 15:35












    According to Apostol's definition, this function does not have $f'(0)=infty$. Apostol's treatment, while eccentric, is sound.
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Aug 28 at 15:40




    According to Apostol's definition, this function does not have $f'(0)=infty$. Apostol's treatment, while eccentric, is sound.
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Aug 28 at 15:40












    @LordSharktheUnknown Ok, what's Aposol's definition? The example I gave does satisfy $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h = +infty$.
    – David C. Ullrich
    Aug 28 at 15:43




    @LordSharktheUnknown Ok, what's Aposol's definition? The example I gave does satisfy $lim_hto0(f(h)-f(0))/h = +infty$.
    – David C. Ullrich
    Aug 28 at 15:43












    @DavidC.Ullrich Basically it must be continuous before it can has an infinite derivative: the graph has a vertical tangent.
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Aug 28 at 15:44




    @DavidC.Ullrich Basically it must be continuous before it can has an infinite derivative: the graph has a vertical tangent.
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Aug 28 at 15:44












    @LordSharktheUnknown "Basically" schmasically. What's the definition?
    – David C. Ullrich
    Aug 28 at 15:46




    @LordSharktheUnknown "Basically" schmasically. What's the definition?
    – David C. Ullrich
    Aug 28 at 15:46










    up vote
    0
    down vote













    It seems that Apostol requires continuity at the points where the derivative becomes infinity. At all the other points, the derivative is a real number, and hence the function is continuous there. It follows that your function is continuous everywhere.






    share|cite|improve this answer
























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      It seems that Apostol requires continuity at the points where the derivative becomes infinity. At all the other points, the derivative is a real number, and hence the function is continuous there. It follows that your function is continuous everywhere.






      share|cite|improve this answer






















        up vote
        0
        down vote










        up vote
        0
        down vote









        It seems that Apostol requires continuity at the points where the derivative becomes infinity. At all the other points, the derivative is a real number, and hence the function is continuous there. It follows that your function is continuous everywhere.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        It seems that Apostol requires continuity at the points where the derivative becomes infinity. At all the other points, the derivative is a real number, and hence the function is continuous there. It follows that your function is continuous everywhere.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Aug 28 at 16:00









        Math_QED

        6,55931345




        6,55931345



























             

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