Solve $log_a(log_a x^n)$ if $n=a^2$ ; $x= e^2$

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My brother challenged me to solve this problem. Trying since 2 days. I came up with $a^a^y= x^n$ assuming $y$ is $log_a(log_a x^n)$. There's no solution available on net as well. If someone can solve it, it would be of great help! Thanks



Trial 1:



$Rightarrowlog_a(log_a (e^2)^a^2)$



$Rightarrowlog_a(log_a exp(2cdot a^2))$ ...By $exp$ property



$Rightarrowlog_a(2*(a^2)cdotlog_a (e))$ ... By log property $log x^a= a log x$



$Rightarrowlog_a(2cdot(a^2)cdot(frac1log_e(a)))$ ... By $log$ property



$Rightarrowlog_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))$ ...By $log$ property



$Rightarrow 2cdotlog_a(a^2)+log(frac1log_e(a))$



$Rightarrow 4 + log(frac1log_e(a))$



Couldn't solve beyond that



Trial 2:



Considering $y=log_a(log_a (x^n))$



$Rightarrow a^y= log_a (x^n)$



so, $a^a^y= x^n$







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  • 1




    Can you precise what $loga$ is ? And use Latex for mathematical formulas typing? Thanks!
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Aug 13 at 7:50










  • How can we "solve" this? Do you mean "simplify"?
    – asdf
    Aug 13 at 7:54






  • 2




    Welcome to MSE. For some basic information about writing mathematics at this site see, e.g., basic help on mathjax notation, mathjax tutorial and quick reference, main meta site math tutorial and equation editing how-to.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 13 at 8:03










  • The answer is supposed to be a numerical value. So, it has to be solved..
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 8:47










  • For it to be solved to a numerical value we need a value for $a$ or $n$.
    – Jan
    Aug 13 at 8:59














up vote
1
down vote

favorite
1












My brother challenged me to solve this problem. Trying since 2 days. I came up with $a^a^y= x^n$ assuming $y$ is $log_a(log_a x^n)$. There's no solution available on net as well. If someone can solve it, it would be of great help! Thanks



Trial 1:



$Rightarrowlog_a(log_a (e^2)^a^2)$



$Rightarrowlog_a(log_a exp(2cdot a^2))$ ...By $exp$ property



$Rightarrowlog_a(2*(a^2)cdotlog_a (e))$ ... By log property $log x^a= a log x$



$Rightarrowlog_a(2cdot(a^2)cdot(frac1log_e(a)))$ ... By $log$ property



$Rightarrowlog_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))$ ...By $log$ property



$Rightarrow 2cdotlog_a(a^2)+log(frac1log_e(a))$



$Rightarrow 4 + log(frac1log_e(a))$



Couldn't solve beyond that



Trial 2:



Considering $y=log_a(log_a (x^n))$



$Rightarrow a^y= log_a (x^n)$



so, $a^a^y= x^n$







share|cite|improve this question


















  • 1




    Can you precise what $loga$ is ? And use Latex for mathematical formulas typing? Thanks!
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Aug 13 at 7:50










  • How can we "solve" this? Do you mean "simplify"?
    – asdf
    Aug 13 at 7:54






  • 2




    Welcome to MSE. For some basic information about writing mathematics at this site see, e.g., basic help on mathjax notation, mathjax tutorial and quick reference, main meta site math tutorial and equation editing how-to.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 13 at 8:03










  • The answer is supposed to be a numerical value. So, it has to be solved..
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 8:47










  • For it to be solved to a numerical value we need a value for $a$ or $n$.
    – Jan
    Aug 13 at 8:59












up vote
1
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
1
down vote

favorite
1






1





My brother challenged me to solve this problem. Trying since 2 days. I came up with $a^a^y= x^n$ assuming $y$ is $log_a(log_a x^n)$. There's no solution available on net as well. If someone can solve it, it would be of great help! Thanks



Trial 1:



$Rightarrowlog_a(log_a (e^2)^a^2)$



$Rightarrowlog_a(log_a exp(2cdot a^2))$ ...By $exp$ property



$Rightarrowlog_a(2*(a^2)cdotlog_a (e))$ ... By log property $log x^a= a log x$



$Rightarrowlog_a(2cdot(a^2)cdot(frac1log_e(a)))$ ... By $log$ property



$Rightarrowlog_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))$ ...By $log$ property



$Rightarrow 2cdotlog_a(a^2)+log(frac1log_e(a))$



$Rightarrow 4 + log(frac1log_e(a))$



Couldn't solve beyond that



Trial 2:



Considering $y=log_a(log_a (x^n))$



$Rightarrow a^y= log_a (x^n)$



so, $a^a^y= x^n$







share|cite|improve this question














My brother challenged me to solve this problem. Trying since 2 days. I came up with $a^a^y= x^n$ assuming $y$ is $log_a(log_a x^n)$. There's no solution available on net as well. If someone can solve it, it would be of great help! Thanks



Trial 1:



$Rightarrowlog_a(log_a (e^2)^a^2)$



$Rightarrowlog_a(log_a exp(2cdot a^2))$ ...By $exp$ property



$Rightarrowlog_a(2*(a^2)cdotlog_a (e))$ ... By log property $log x^a= a log x$



$Rightarrowlog_a(2cdot(a^2)cdot(frac1log_e(a)))$ ... By $log$ property



$Rightarrowlog_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))$ ...By $log$ property



$Rightarrow 2cdotlog_a(a^2)+log(frac1log_e(a))$



$Rightarrow 4 + log(frac1log_e(a))$



Couldn't solve beyond that



Trial 2:



Considering $y=log_a(log_a (x^n))$



$Rightarrow a^y= log_a (x^n)$



so, $a^a^y= x^n$









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edited Aug 13 at 8:19









Cornman

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asked Aug 13 at 7:45









Sayli_ambure

82




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  • 1




    Can you precise what $loga$ is ? And use Latex for mathematical formulas typing? Thanks!
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Aug 13 at 7:50










  • How can we "solve" this? Do you mean "simplify"?
    – asdf
    Aug 13 at 7:54






  • 2




    Welcome to MSE. For some basic information about writing mathematics at this site see, e.g., basic help on mathjax notation, mathjax tutorial and quick reference, main meta site math tutorial and equation editing how-to.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 13 at 8:03










  • The answer is supposed to be a numerical value. So, it has to be solved..
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 8:47










  • For it to be solved to a numerical value we need a value for $a$ or $n$.
    – Jan
    Aug 13 at 8:59












  • 1




    Can you precise what $loga$ is ? And use Latex for mathematical formulas typing? Thanks!
    – mathcounterexamples.net
    Aug 13 at 7:50










  • How can we "solve" this? Do you mean "simplify"?
    – asdf
    Aug 13 at 7:54






  • 2




    Welcome to MSE. For some basic information about writing mathematics at this site see, e.g., basic help on mathjax notation, mathjax tutorial and quick reference, main meta site math tutorial and equation editing how-to.
    – José Carlos Santos
    Aug 13 at 8:03










  • The answer is supposed to be a numerical value. So, it has to be solved..
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 8:47










  • For it to be solved to a numerical value we need a value for $a$ or $n$.
    – Jan
    Aug 13 at 8:59







1




1




Can you precise what $loga$ is ? And use Latex for mathematical formulas typing? Thanks!
– mathcounterexamples.net
Aug 13 at 7:50




Can you precise what $loga$ is ? And use Latex for mathematical formulas typing? Thanks!
– mathcounterexamples.net
Aug 13 at 7:50












How can we "solve" this? Do you mean "simplify"?
– asdf
Aug 13 at 7:54




How can we "solve" this? Do you mean "simplify"?
– asdf
Aug 13 at 7:54




2




2




Welcome to MSE. For some basic information about writing mathematics at this site see, e.g., basic help on mathjax notation, mathjax tutorial and quick reference, main meta site math tutorial and equation editing how-to.
– José Carlos Santos
Aug 13 at 8:03




Welcome to MSE. For some basic information about writing mathematics at this site see, e.g., basic help on mathjax notation, mathjax tutorial and quick reference, main meta site math tutorial and equation editing how-to.
– José Carlos Santos
Aug 13 at 8:03












The answer is supposed to be a numerical value. So, it has to be solved..
– Sayli_ambure
Aug 13 at 8:47




The answer is supposed to be a numerical value. So, it has to be solved..
– Sayli_ambure
Aug 13 at 8:47












For it to be solved to a numerical value we need a value for $a$ or $n$.
– Jan
Aug 13 at 8:59




For it to be solved to a numerical value we need a value for $a$ or $n$.
– Jan
Aug 13 at 8:59










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
0
down vote



accepted










First notice that your expression is
$$
log_a(nlog_a x)=log_a n+log_alog_ax
$$



For $n=a^2$ you have $log_an=log_a(a^2)=2$; for $x=e^2$,
$$
log_alog_a x=log_a(2log_a e)=log_a2+log_alog_ae
$$



You could observe that
$$
log_a2=fraclog 2log a
$$
and
$$
log_ae=frac1log a
$$
so
$$
log_alog_ae=log_afrac1log a=-log_alog a=-fracloglog alog a
$$
so you finally get
$$
2+fraclog2log a-fracloglog alog a
$$



Notes.



  1. The unadorned $log$ symbol denotes the natural logarithm.

  2. I skipped over the checks for existence; the computations make sense for $a>1$ as the final formula shows.





share|cite|improve this answer






















  • You made a sligth mistake, your $frac1log a$ should be $fraclog 2log a$, you did not copy it correctly.
    – Jan
    Aug 13 at 9:16










  • @Jan Yes, fixed.
    – egreg
    Aug 13 at 9:22










  • This is the closest solution I could see by far! Thank you @egreg
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 9:23

















up vote
0
down vote













You were doing quite well but made a small error. Notice that you say:
$$log_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a)) Rightarrow 2cdotlog_a(a^2)+log(frac1log_e(a))$$



But if we have logarithms we can't simply take the multiplication outside. Remember that
$log(acdot b)=log(a)+log(b)$. Thus we get:
$$log_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))=log_a(2)+log_a(a^2) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))$$
$$Rightarrow log_a(2)+2 - log_a(log_e(a))$$



I do not think we can easily simply further at this point.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you for pointing out the error! :)
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 8:55

















up vote
0
down vote













$log_a(log_a x)=log_a(fracln x +icdot 2pi mln a)=fraclnfracsqrt(ln x^n)^2+(2pi m)^2ln a+i(arctanfrac2pi mln x^n+2pi k)ln a$, where $m,k in mathbbZ$. Applying that $x^n=e^4a$, and only taking the real solution ($m=k=0$):



$log_a(log_a x)=fraclnfrac2a^2ln aln a=2+fracln 2ln a-fracln(ln a)ln a$



If $m=4cdot a cdot l$, $l in mathbbZ-0$, and $k=-l$, we get additional solutions:



$log_a(log_a x)=fraclnfracsqrt(2a^2)^2+(8pi a cdot l)^2ln aln a$






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Have you tried giving different values to $a$ to see if you always get the same numerical result? I don't think that the $a$ can be simplified.
    – TheAverageHijano
    Aug 13 at 9:00










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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
0
down vote



accepted










First notice that your expression is
$$
log_a(nlog_a x)=log_a n+log_alog_ax
$$



For $n=a^2$ you have $log_an=log_a(a^2)=2$; for $x=e^2$,
$$
log_alog_a x=log_a(2log_a e)=log_a2+log_alog_ae
$$



You could observe that
$$
log_a2=fraclog 2log a
$$
and
$$
log_ae=frac1log a
$$
so
$$
log_alog_ae=log_afrac1log a=-log_alog a=-fracloglog alog a
$$
so you finally get
$$
2+fraclog2log a-fracloglog alog a
$$



Notes.



  1. The unadorned $log$ symbol denotes the natural logarithm.

  2. I skipped over the checks for existence; the computations make sense for $a>1$ as the final formula shows.





share|cite|improve this answer






















  • You made a sligth mistake, your $frac1log a$ should be $fraclog 2log a$, you did not copy it correctly.
    – Jan
    Aug 13 at 9:16










  • @Jan Yes, fixed.
    – egreg
    Aug 13 at 9:22










  • This is the closest solution I could see by far! Thank you @egreg
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 9:23














up vote
0
down vote



accepted










First notice that your expression is
$$
log_a(nlog_a x)=log_a n+log_alog_ax
$$



For $n=a^2$ you have $log_an=log_a(a^2)=2$; for $x=e^2$,
$$
log_alog_a x=log_a(2log_a e)=log_a2+log_alog_ae
$$



You could observe that
$$
log_a2=fraclog 2log a
$$
and
$$
log_ae=frac1log a
$$
so
$$
log_alog_ae=log_afrac1log a=-log_alog a=-fracloglog alog a
$$
so you finally get
$$
2+fraclog2log a-fracloglog alog a
$$



Notes.



  1. The unadorned $log$ symbol denotes the natural logarithm.

  2. I skipped over the checks for existence; the computations make sense for $a>1$ as the final formula shows.





share|cite|improve this answer






















  • You made a sligth mistake, your $frac1log a$ should be $fraclog 2log a$, you did not copy it correctly.
    – Jan
    Aug 13 at 9:16










  • @Jan Yes, fixed.
    – egreg
    Aug 13 at 9:22










  • This is the closest solution I could see by far! Thank you @egreg
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 9:23












up vote
0
down vote



accepted







up vote
0
down vote



accepted






First notice that your expression is
$$
log_a(nlog_a x)=log_a n+log_alog_ax
$$



For $n=a^2$ you have $log_an=log_a(a^2)=2$; for $x=e^2$,
$$
log_alog_a x=log_a(2log_a e)=log_a2+log_alog_ae
$$



You could observe that
$$
log_a2=fraclog 2log a
$$
and
$$
log_ae=frac1log a
$$
so
$$
log_alog_ae=log_afrac1log a=-log_alog a=-fracloglog alog a
$$
so you finally get
$$
2+fraclog2log a-fracloglog alog a
$$



Notes.



  1. The unadorned $log$ symbol denotes the natural logarithm.

  2. I skipped over the checks for existence; the computations make sense for $a>1$ as the final formula shows.





share|cite|improve this answer














First notice that your expression is
$$
log_a(nlog_a x)=log_a n+log_alog_ax
$$



For $n=a^2$ you have $log_an=log_a(a^2)=2$; for $x=e^2$,
$$
log_alog_a x=log_a(2log_a e)=log_a2+log_alog_ae
$$



You could observe that
$$
log_a2=fraclog 2log a
$$
and
$$
log_ae=frac1log a
$$
so
$$
log_alog_ae=log_afrac1log a=-log_alog a=-fracloglog alog a
$$
so you finally get
$$
2+fraclog2log a-fracloglog alog a
$$



Notes.



  1. The unadorned $log$ symbol denotes the natural logarithm.

  2. I skipped over the checks for existence; the computations make sense for $a>1$ as the final formula shows.






share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Aug 13 at 9:22

























answered Aug 13 at 9:05









egreg

165k1180187




165k1180187











  • You made a sligth mistake, your $frac1log a$ should be $fraclog 2log a$, you did not copy it correctly.
    – Jan
    Aug 13 at 9:16










  • @Jan Yes, fixed.
    – egreg
    Aug 13 at 9:22










  • This is the closest solution I could see by far! Thank you @egreg
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 9:23
















  • You made a sligth mistake, your $frac1log a$ should be $fraclog 2log a$, you did not copy it correctly.
    – Jan
    Aug 13 at 9:16










  • @Jan Yes, fixed.
    – egreg
    Aug 13 at 9:22










  • This is the closest solution I could see by far! Thank you @egreg
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 9:23















You made a sligth mistake, your $frac1log a$ should be $fraclog 2log a$, you did not copy it correctly.
– Jan
Aug 13 at 9:16




You made a sligth mistake, your $frac1log a$ should be $fraclog 2log a$, you did not copy it correctly.
– Jan
Aug 13 at 9:16












@Jan Yes, fixed.
– egreg
Aug 13 at 9:22




@Jan Yes, fixed.
– egreg
Aug 13 at 9:22












This is the closest solution I could see by far! Thank you @egreg
– Sayli_ambure
Aug 13 at 9:23




This is the closest solution I could see by far! Thank you @egreg
– Sayli_ambure
Aug 13 at 9:23










up vote
0
down vote













You were doing quite well but made a small error. Notice that you say:
$$log_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a)) Rightarrow 2cdotlog_a(a^2)+log(frac1log_e(a))$$



But if we have logarithms we can't simply take the multiplication outside. Remember that
$log(acdot b)=log(a)+log(b)$. Thus we get:
$$log_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))=log_a(2)+log_a(a^2) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))$$
$$Rightarrow log_a(2)+2 - log_a(log_e(a))$$



I do not think we can easily simply further at this point.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you for pointing out the error! :)
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 8:55














up vote
0
down vote













You were doing quite well but made a small error. Notice that you say:
$$log_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a)) Rightarrow 2cdotlog_a(a^2)+log(frac1log_e(a))$$



But if we have logarithms we can't simply take the multiplication outside. Remember that
$log(acdot b)=log(a)+log(b)$. Thus we get:
$$log_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))=log_a(2)+log_a(a^2) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))$$
$$Rightarrow log_a(2)+2 - log_a(log_e(a))$$



I do not think we can easily simply further at this point.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you for pointing out the error! :)
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 8:55












up vote
0
down vote










up vote
0
down vote









You were doing quite well but made a small error. Notice that you say:
$$log_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a)) Rightarrow 2cdotlog_a(a^2)+log(frac1log_e(a))$$



But if we have logarithms we can't simply take the multiplication outside. Remember that
$log(acdot b)=log(a)+log(b)$. Thus we get:
$$log_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))=log_a(2)+log_a(a^2) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))$$
$$Rightarrow log_a(2)+2 - log_a(log_e(a))$$



I do not think we can easily simply further at this point.






share|cite|improve this answer












You were doing quite well but made a small error. Notice that you say:
$$log_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a)) Rightarrow 2cdotlog_a(a^2)+log(frac1log_e(a))$$



But if we have logarithms we can't simply take the multiplication outside. Remember that
$log(acdot b)=log(a)+log(b)$. Thus we get:
$$log_a(2cdot(a^2)) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))=log_a(2)+log_a(a^2) + log_a(frac1log_e(a))$$
$$Rightarrow log_a(2)+2 - log_a(log_e(a))$$



I do not think we can easily simply further at this point.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Aug 13 at 8:50









Jan

559416




559416











  • Thank you for pointing out the error! :)
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 8:55
















  • Thank you for pointing out the error! :)
    – Sayli_ambure
    Aug 13 at 8:55















Thank you for pointing out the error! :)
– Sayli_ambure
Aug 13 at 8:55




Thank you for pointing out the error! :)
– Sayli_ambure
Aug 13 at 8:55










up vote
0
down vote













$log_a(log_a x)=log_a(fracln x +icdot 2pi mln a)=fraclnfracsqrt(ln x^n)^2+(2pi m)^2ln a+i(arctanfrac2pi mln x^n+2pi k)ln a$, where $m,k in mathbbZ$. Applying that $x^n=e^4a$, and only taking the real solution ($m=k=0$):



$log_a(log_a x)=fraclnfrac2a^2ln aln a=2+fracln 2ln a-fracln(ln a)ln a$



If $m=4cdot a cdot l$, $l in mathbbZ-0$, and $k=-l$, we get additional solutions:



$log_a(log_a x)=fraclnfracsqrt(2a^2)^2+(8pi a cdot l)^2ln aln a$






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Have you tried giving different values to $a$ to see if you always get the same numerical result? I don't think that the $a$ can be simplified.
    – TheAverageHijano
    Aug 13 at 9:00














up vote
0
down vote













$log_a(log_a x)=log_a(fracln x +icdot 2pi mln a)=fraclnfracsqrt(ln x^n)^2+(2pi m)^2ln a+i(arctanfrac2pi mln x^n+2pi k)ln a$, where $m,k in mathbbZ$. Applying that $x^n=e^4a$, and only taking the real solution ($m=k=0$):



$log_a(log_a x)=fraclnfrac2a^2ln aln a=2+fracln 2ln a-fracln(ln a)ln a$



If $m=4cdot a cdot l$, $l in mathbbZ-0$, and $k=-l$, we get additional solutions:



$log_a(log_a x)=fraclnfracsqrt(2a^2)^2+(8pi a cdot l)^2ln aln a$






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Have you tried giving different values to $a$ to see if you always get the same numerical result? I don't think that the $a$ can be simplified.
    – TheAverageHijano
    Aug 13 at 9:00












up vote
0
down vote










up vote
0
down vote









$log_a(log_a x)=log_a(fracln x +icdot 2pi mln a)=fraclnfracsqrt(ln x^n)^2+(2pi m)^2ln a+i(arctanfrac2pi mln x^n+2pi k)ln a$, where $m,k in mathbbZ$. Applying that $x^n=e^4a$, and only taking the real solution ($m=k=0$):



$log_a(log_a x)=fraclnfrac2a^2ln aln a=2+fracln 2ln a-fracln(ln a)ln a$



If $m=4cdot a cdot l$, $l in mathbbZ-0$, and $k=-l$, we get additional solutions:



$log_a(log_a x)=fraclnfracsqrt(2a^2)^2+(8pi a cdot l)^2ln aln a$






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$log_a(log_a x)=log_a(fracln x +icdot 2pi mln a)=fraclnfracsqrt(ln x^n)^2+(2pi m)^2ln a+i(arctanfrac2pi mln x^n+2pi k)ln a$, where $m,k in mathbbZ$. Applying that $x^n=e^4a$, and only taking the real solution ($m=k=0$):



$log_a(log_a x)=fraclnfrac2a^2ln aln a=2+fracln 2ln a-fracln(ln a)ln a$



If $m=4cdot a cdot l$, $l in mathbbZ-0$, and $k=-l$, we get additional solutions:



$log_a(log_a x)=fraclnfracsqrt(2a^2)^2+(8pi a cdot l)^2ln aln a$







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edited Aug 13 at 9:40

























answered Aug 13 at 8:16









TheAverageHijano

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  • Have you tried giving different values to $a$ to see if you always get the same numerical result? I don't think that the $a$ can be simplified.
    – TheAverageHijano
    Aug 13 at 9:00
















  • Have you tried giving different values to $a$ to see if you always get the same numerical result? I don't think that the $a$ can be simplified.
    – TheAverageHijano
    Aug 13 at 9:00















Have you tried giving different values to $a$ to see if you always get the same numerical result? I don't think that the $a$ can be simplified.
– TheAverageHijano
Aug 13 at 9:00




Have you tried giving different values to $a$ to see if you always get the same numerical result? I don't think that the $a$ can be simplified.
– TheAverageHijano
Aug 13 at 9:00












 

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