Maximum column sum of stochastic matrix

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For a stochastic matrix $P$ of size $n$, we define



$$|P|_1 := max_j in [n] sum_i in [n]|P(i,j)|$$



i.e., the maximum column sum, which is based on the $|cdot|_1$ matrix norm. Now, although $|P|_infty$ for all stochastic matrices (defined as the maximum row sum) is equal to one by definition, $|P|_1$ can grow as large as $n$. To see this, take the matrix where the first column is all ones and the rest are zeros.



  1. Is it possible to relate $|P|_1$ to other properties of the $n$ state Markov chain represented by this stochastic matrix? It seems like it quantifies how much the chain is attracted to a particular state.


  2. Is it true that $fracP^kk leq |P|_1$ for all $k$ ?


  3. Is it true that $fracP^kk^2 leq |P|_1$ for all $k$ ?


  4. Has $|P|_1$ be considered in any way in the literature ?



So far:



  • I don't think it can be related to its mixing time as I can seem to be able to generate arbitrary slow mixing chains with the same value for $|P|_1$.

  • It makes sense that it stabilizes at some point when $k$ increases because in the long run the rows of $P^k$ are all $pi$ (stationary distribution), so that I am expecting $|P^k|_1 rightarrow n cdot max_i pi_i$. I actually have been able to plot both oscillating and non-oscillating cases around that value for $k$ increasing.

  • Question 2 has been disproven by @dEmigOd.

  • I have a program running for trying to find counter examples for question 3, which has been unsuccessful so far (generating random rows from a Dirichlet distribution)






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  • Please provide some context for your questions, calculations you have made, or any other information you have. Just throwing questions around will probably get them closed with no answers.
    – uniquesolution
    Aug 13 at 8:25











  • @uniquesolution Added more information as per requested.
    – ippiki-ookami
    Aug 13 at 11:26










  • Can you please limit yourself to just one question per post?
    – Xander Henderson
    Aug 14 at 0:08














up vote
1
down vote

favorite












For a stochastic matrix $P$ of size $n$, we define



$$|P|_1 := max_j in [n] sum_i in [n]|P(i,j)|$$



i.e., the maximum column sum, which is based on the $|cdot|_1$ matrix norm. Now, although $|P|_infty$ for all stochastic matrices (defined as the maximum row sum) is equal to one by definition, $|P|_1$ can grow as large as $n$. To see this, take the matrix where the first column is all ones and the rest are zeros.



  1. Is it possible to relate $|P|_1$ to other properties of the $n$ state Markov chain represented by this stochastic matrix? It seems like it quantifies how much the chain is attracted to a particular state.


  2. Is it true that $fracP^kk leq |P|_1$ for all $k$ ?


  3. Is it true that $fracP^kk^2 leq |P|_1$ for all $k$ ?


  4. Has $|P|_1$ be considered in any way in the literature ?



So far:



  • I don't think it can be related to its mixing time as I can seem to be able to generate arbitrary slow mixing chains with the same value for $|P|_1$.

  • It makes sense that it stabilizes at some point when $k$ increases because in the long run the rows of $P^k$ are all $pi$ (stationary distribution), so that I am expecting $|P^k|_1 rightarrow n cdot max_i pi_i$. I actually have been able to plot both oscillating and non-oscillating cases around that value for $k$ increasing.

  • Question 2 has been disproven by @dEmigOd.

  • I have a program running for trying to find counter examples for question 3, which has been unsuccessful so far (generating random rows from a Dirichlet distribution)






share|cite|improve this question






















  • Please provide some context for your questions, calculations you have made, or any other information you have. Just throwing questions around will probably get them closed with no answers.
    – uniquesolution
    Aug 13 at 8:25











  • @uniquesolution Added more information as per requested.
    – ippiki-ookami
    Aug 13 at 11:26










  • Can you please limit yourself to just one question per post?
    – Xander Henderson
    Aug 14 at 0:08












up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











For a stochastic matrix $P$ of size $n$, we define



$$|P|_1 := max_j in [n] sum_i in [n]|P(i,j)|$$



i.e., the maximum column sum, which is based on the $|cdot|_1$ matrix norm. Now, although $|P|_infty$ for all stochastic matrices (defined as the maximum row sum) is equal to one by definition, $|P|_1$ can grow as large as $n$. To see this, take the matrix where the first column is all ones and the rest are zeros.



  1. Is it possible to relate $|P|_1$ to other properties of the $n$ state Markov chain represented by this stochastic matrix? It seems like it quantifies how much the chain is attracted to a particular state.


  2. Is it true that $fracP^kk leq |P|_1$ for all $k$ ?


  3. Is it true that $fracP^kk^2 leq |P|_1$ for all $k$ ?


  4. Has $|P|_1$ be considered in any way in the literature ?



So far:



  • I don't think it can be related to its mixing time as I can seem to be able to generate arbitrary slow mixing chains with the same value for $|P|_1$.

  • It makes sense that it stabilizes at some point when $k$ increases because in the long run the rows of $P^k$ are all $pi$ (stationary distribution), so that I am expecting $|P^k|_1 rightarrow n cdot max_i pi_i$. I actually have been able to plot both oscillating and non-oscillating cases around that value for $k$ increasing.

  • Question 2 has been disproven by @dEmigOd.

  • I have a program running for trying to find counter examples for question 3, which has been unsuccessful so far (generating random rows from a Dirichlet distribution)






share|cite|improve this question














For a stochastic matrix $P$ of size $n$, we define



$$|P|_1 := max_j in [n] sum_i in [n]|P(i,j)|$$



i.e., the maximum column sum, which is based on the $|cdot|_1$ matrix norm. Now, although $|P|_infty$ for all stochastic matrices (defined as the maximum row sum) is equal to one by definition, $|P|_1$ can grow as large as $n$. To see this, take the matrix where the first column is all ones and the rest are zeros.



  1. Is it possible to relate $|P|_1$ to other properties of the $n$ state Markov chain represented by this stochastic matrix? It seems like it quantifies how much the chain is attracted to a particular state.


  2. Is it true that $fracP^kk leq |P|_1$ for all $k$ ?


  3. Is it true that $fracP^kk^2 leq |P|_1$ for all $k$ ?


  4. Has $|P|_1$ be considered in any way in the literature ?



So far:



  • I don't think it can be related to its mixing time as I can seem to be able to generate arbitrary slow mixing chains with the same value for $|P|_1$.

  • It makes sense that it stabilizes at some point when $k$ increases because in the long run the rows of $P^k$ are all $pi$ (stationary distribution), so that I am expecting $|P^k|_1 rightarrow n cdot max_i pi_i$. I actually have been able to plot both oscillating and non-oscillating cases around that value for $k$ increasing.

  • Question 2 has been disproven by @dEmigOd.

  • I have a program running for trying to find counter examples for question 3, which has been unsuccessful so far (generating random rows from a Dirichlet distribution)








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edited Aug 13 at 11:25

























asked Aug 13 at 7:35









ippiki-ookami

370217




370217











  • Please provide some context for your questions, calculations you have made, or any other information you have. Just throwing questions around will probably get them closed with no answers.
    – uniquesolution
    Aug 13 at 8:25











  • @uniquesolution Added more information as per requested.
    – ippiki-ookami
    Aug 13 at 11:26










  • Can you please limit yourself to just one question per post?
    – Xander Henderson
    Aug 14 at 0:08
















  • Please provide some context for your questions, calculations you have made, or any other information you have. Just throwing questions around will probably get them closed with no answers.
    – uniquesolution
    Aug 13 at 8:25











  • @uniquesolution Added more information as per requested.
    – ippiki-ookami
    Aug 13 at 11:26










  • Can you please limit yourself to just one question per post?
    – Xander Henderson
    Aug 14 at 0:08















Please provide some context for your questions, calculations you have made, or any other information you have. Just throwing questions around will probably get them closed with no answers.
– uniquesolution
Aug 13 at 8:25





Please provide some context for your questions, calculations you have made, or any other information you have. Just throwing questions around will probably get them closed with no answers.
– uniquesolution
Aug 13 at 8:25













@uniquesolution Added more information as per requested.
– ippiki-ookami
Aug 13 at 11:26




@uniquesolution Added more information as per requested.
– ippiki-ookami
Aug 13 at 11:26












Can you please limit yourself to just one question per post?
– Xander Henderson
Aug 14 at 0:08




Can you please limit yourself to just one question per post?
– Xander Henderson
Aug 14 at 0:08










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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up vote
1
down vote



accepted










  1. This is not true.
    Let
    $$
    P =
    beginpmatrix
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
    endpmatrix
    $$
    Then,
    $$
    P^2 =
    beginpmatrix
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    endpmatrix$$

essentially every state will end in state $1$ in two steps.



We have, $lVert P rVert_1 = 3$, but $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = 7 > 2 cdot lVert P rVert_1$.



  1. I suppose, it is not that difficult to imagine a chain with $lVert P rVert_1 = sqrtn$, while $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = n$. Was it attracted to some state more than another chain, with $lVert P rVert_1 = fracn2$ and $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = n$?

Update:
As per new question regarding $fraclVert P^k rVert_1k^2 leq lVert P rVert_1$.



Proceed in the same spirit, Now a $25 times 25$ matrix will work. Send states $1-5$ to state $1$, states $6 - 10$ to state $2$, etc. In $2$ steps every state end up in state $1$. $lVert P rVert_1 = 5$, but $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = 25$. As I previously mentioned you can play with this until $sqrtn$.



Could it be $fraclVert P^sqrtn + 1 rVert_1sqrtn + 1 geq lVert P rVert_1$?






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • About 2. I agree. Although somewhat rare, it can happen as confirmed by numerical simulation. I have not been able to generate any example when dividing by $k^2$ yet.
    – ippiki-ookami
    Aug 13 at 11:28










  • New question 3 was actually answered for 1. part!
    – dEmigOd
    Aug 13 at 12:01










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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
1
down vote



accepted










  1. This is not true.
    Let
    $$
    P =
    beginpmatrix
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
    endpmatrix
    $$
    Then,
    $$
    P^2 =
    beginpmatrix
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    endpmatrix$$

essentially every state will end in state $1$ in two steps.



We have, $lVert P rVert_1 = 3$, but $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = 7 > 2 cdot lVert P rVert_1$.



  1. I suppose, it is not that difficult to imagine a chain with $lVert P rVert_1 = sqrtn$, while $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = n$. Was it attracted to some state more than another chain, with $lVert P rVert_1 = fracn2$ and $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = n$?

Update:
As per new question regarding $fraclVert P^k rVert_1k^2 leq lVert P rVert_1$.



Proceed in the same spirit, Now a $25 times 25$ matrix will work. Send states $1-5$ to state $1$, states $6 - 10$ to state $2$, etc. In $2$ steps every state end up in state $1$. $lVert P rVert_1 = 5$, but $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = 25$. As I previously mentioned you can play with this until $sqrtn$.



Could it be $fraclVert P^sqrtn + 1 rVert_1sqrtn + 1 geq lVert P rVert_1$?






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • About 2. I agree. Although somewhat rare, it can happen as confirmed by numerical simulation. I have not been able to generate any example when dividing by $k^2$ yet.
    – ippiki-ookami
    Aug 13 at 11:28










  • New question 3 was actually answered for 1. part!
    – dEmigOd
    Aug 13 at 12:01














up vote
1
down vote



accepted










  1. This is not true.
    Let
    $$
    P =
    beginpmatrix
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
    endpmatrix
    $$
    Then,
    $$
    P^2 =
    beginpmatrix
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    endpmatrix$$

essentially every state will end in state $1$ in two steps.



We have, $lVert P rVert_1 = 3$, but $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = 7 > 2 cdot lVert P rVert_1$.



  1. I suppose, it is not that difficult to imagine a chain with $lVert P rVert_1 = sqrtn$, while $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = n$. Was it attracted to some state more than another chain, with $lVert P rVert_1 = fracn2$ and $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = n$?

Update:
As per new question regarding $fraclVert P^k rVert_1k^2 leq lVert P rVert_1$.



Proceed in the same spirit, Now a $25 times 25$ matrix will work. Send states $1-5$ to state $1$, states $6 - 10$ to state $2$, etc. In $2$ steps every state end up in state $1$. $lVert P rVert_1 = 5$, but $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = 25$. As I previously mentioned you can play with this until $sqrtn$.



Could it be $fraclVert P^sqrtn + 1 rVert_1sqrtn + 1 geq lVert P rVert_1$?






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • About 2. I agree. Although somewhat rare, it can happen as confirmed by numerical simulation. I have not been able to generate any example when dividing by $k^2$ yet.
    – ippiki-ookami
    Aug 13 at 11:28










  • New question 3 was actually answered for 1. part!
    – dEmigOd
    Aug 13 at 12:01












up vote
1
down vote



accepted







up vote
1
down vote



accepted






  1. This is not true.
    Let
    $$
    P =
    beginpmatrix
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
    endpmatrix
    $$
    Then,
    $$
    P^2 =
    beginpmatrix
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    endpmatrix$$

essentially every state will end in state $1$ in two steps.



We have, $lVert P rVert_1 = 3$, but $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = 7 > 2 cdot lVert P rVert_1$.



  1. I suppose, it is not that difficult to imagine a chain with $lVert P rVert_1 = sqrtn$, while $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = n$. Was it attracted to some state more than another chain, with $lVert P rVert_1 = fracn2$ and $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = n$?

Update:
As per new question regarding $fraclVert P^k rVert_1k^2 leq lVert P rVert_1$.



Proceed in the same spirit, Now a $25 times 25$ matrix will work. Send states $1-5$ to state $1$, states $6 - 10$ to state $2$, etc. In $2$ steps every state end up in state $1$. $lVert P rVert_1 = 5$, but $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = 25$. As I previously mentioned you can play with this until $sqrtn$.



Could it be $fraclVert P^sqrtn + 1 rVert_1sqrtn + 1 geq lVert P rVert_1$?






share|cite|improve this answer














  1. This is not true.
    Let
    $$
    P =
    beginpmatrix
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \
    endpmatrix
    $$
    Then,
    $$
    P^2 =
    beginpmatrix
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
    endpmatrix$$

essentially every state will end in state $1$ in two steps.



We have, $lVert P rVert_1 = 3$, but $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = 7 > 2 cdot lVert P rVert_1$.



  1. I suppose, it is not that difficult to imagine a chain with $lVert P rVert_1 = sqrtn$, while $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = n$. Was it attracted to some state more than another chain, with $lVert P rVert_1 = fracn2$ and $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = n$?

Update:
As per new question regarding $fraclVert P^k rVert_1k^2 leq lVert P rVert_1$.



Proceed in the same spirit, Now a $25 times 25$ matrix will work. Send states $1-5$ to state $1$, states $6 - 10$ to state $2$, etc. In $2$ steps every state end up in state $1$. $lVert P rVert_1 = 5$, but $lVert P^2 rVert_1 = 25$. As I previously mentioned you can play with this until $sqrtn$.



Could it be $fraclVert P^sqrtn + 1 rVert_1sqrtn + 1 geq lVert P rVert_1$?







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Aug 13 at 12:20

























answered Aug 13 at 10:12









dEmigOd

1,3121512




1,3121512











  • About 2. I agree. Although somewhat rare, it can happen as confirmed by numerical simulation. I have not been able to generate any example when dividing by $k^2$ yet.
    – ippiki-ookami
    Aug 13 at 11:28










  • New question 3 was actually answered for 1. part!
    – dEmigOd
    Aug 13 at 12:01
















  • About 2. I agree. Although somewhat rare, it can happen as confirmed by numerical simulation. I have not been able to generate any example when dividing by $k^2$ yet.
    – ippiki-ookami
    Aug 13 at 11:28










  • New question 3 was actually answered for 1. part!
    – dEmigOd
    Aug 13 at 12:01















About 2. I agree. Although somewhat rare, it can happen as confirmed by numerical simulation. I have not been able to generate any example when dividing by $k^2$ yet.
– ippiki-ookami
Aug 13 at 11:28




About 2. I agree. Although somewhat rare, it can happen as confirmed by numerical simulation. I have not been able to generate any example when dividing by $k^2$ yet.
– ippiki-ookami
Aug 13 at 11:28












New question 3 was actually answered for 1. part!
– dEmigOd
Aug 13 at 12:01




New question 3 was actually answered for 1. part!
– dEmigOd
Aug 13 at 12:01












 

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