prove $x+y=a, xy=b$ uniquely determine $x,y$

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To be precise, there are two solutions ($a,b$ swapped) or none. But if there is a pair of solutions, there is only the one pair.



EDIT Because I'm reviewing algebra 2 (see algebra-precalculus tag), I'd ideally like a proof at that level (though it mightn't be possible).



This arises in factoring simple quadratics and factoring by grouping. e.g. [using different variables]



$(x+a)(x+b) = x^2+(a+b)x + ab$



If we find two other numbers $p,q$ with the same sum $p+q=a+b$ and same product $pq=ab$, we can write



$x^2+(p+q)x + pq = (x+p)(x+q)$



This is true, but do we also know that $p=a$ and $q=b$? Could there be some other $p,q$ with the same sum and product?



Certainly, just one of sum or product does not uniquely determine $p,q$. e.g. for $p+q=a+b=4$, we could have $a=2, b=2$ and $p=1, q=3$. For $pq=ab=12$, we could have $a=3, b=4$ and $p=2, q=6$. How do we know that using both contraints always gives one solution?



In other words, does $p+q=a+b$ and $pq=ab$ have a unique solution, and why?




My reasoning is easiest with real numbers.



  • $x+y=a => y=-x+a$ gives a falling diagonal line, with slope $-1$, y-intercept $a$, and x-intercept $a$.


  • $xy=b$, for $b>0$, gives the typical curve in the $+,+$ quadrant and in the $-,-$ quadrant. The curve is symmetrical across the rising diagonal $y=x$ (and also across $y=-x$).


The line might go between the two curves. It might just touch one of them, or intersect twice.



The single intersection can only occur at $y=x$. Here, $2x=a, x^2=b$, $x=a/2$, $(a/2)^2=b, a^2/4=b, a^2=4b$, and therefore where $a=pm 2sqrtb$. If $a$ is between these values, there is no solution; and if $moda>2sqrtb$, there are two solutions. Because of symetry, these are $x,y$ swapped. i.e. if $(x,y)$ is one solution, $(y,x)$ is the other.



  • $xy$, for $b<0$, gives similar curves but in the $-,+$ and $+,-$ quadrants.

The line always intersects both curves. Because of symmetry, the intersections are at $(x,y)$ and $(y,x)$.



It's also possible to show this by manipulating the constraints into a quadratic, and then solving that (e.g. with the quadratic formula). But since the theorem of this question is used to solve quadratics, it seems begging the question to use quadratics to solve it.







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    up vote
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    favorite












    To be precise, there are two solutions ($a,b$ swapped) or none. But if there is a pair of solutions, there is only the one pair.



    EDIT Because I'm reviewing algebra 2 (see algebra-precalculus tag), I'd ideally like a proof at that level (though it mightn't be possible).



    This arises in factoring simple quadratics and factoring by grouping. e.g. [using different variables]



    $(x+a)(x+b) = x^2+(a+b)x + ab$



    If we find two other numbers $p,q$ with the same sum $p+q=a+b$ and same product $pq=ab$, we can write



    $x^2+(p+q)x + pq = (x+p)(x+q)$



    This is true, but do we also know that $p=a$ and $q=b$? Could there be some other $p,q$ with the same sum and product?



    Certainly, just one of sum or product does not uniquely determine $p,q$. e.g. for $p+q=a+b=4$, we could have $a=2, b=2$ and $p=1, q=3$. For $pq=ab=12$, we could have $a=3, b=4$ and $p=2, q=6$. How do we know that using both contraints always gives one solution?



    In other words, does $p+q=a+b$ and $pq=ab$ have a unique solution, and why?




    My reasoning is easiest with real numbers.



    • $x+y=a => y=-x+a$ gives a falling diagonal line, with slope $-1$, y-intercept $a$, and x-intercept $a$.


    • $xy=b$, for $b>0$, gives the typical curve in the $+,+$ quadrant and in the $-,-$ quadrant. The curve is symmetrical across the rising diagonal $y=x$ (and also across $y=-x$).


    The line might go between the two curves. It might just touch one of them, or intersect twice.



    The single intersection can only occur at $y=x$. Here, $2x=a, x^2=b$, $x=a/2$, $(a/2)^2=b, a^2/4=b, a^2=4b$, and therefore where $a=pm 2sqrtb$. If $a$ is between these values, there is no solution; and if $moda>2sqrtb$, there are two solutions. Because of symetry, these are $x,y$ swapped. i.e. if $(x,y)$ is one solution, $(y,x)$ is the other.



    • $xy$, for $b<0$, gives similar curves but in the $-,+$ and $+,-$ quadrants.

    The line always intersects both curves. Because of symmetry, the intersections are at $(x,y)$ and $(y,x)$.



    It's also possible to show this by manipulating the constraints into a quadratic, and then solving that (e.g. with the quadratic formula). But since the theorem of this question is used to solve quadratics, it seems begging the question to use quadratics to solve it.







    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite











      To be precise, there are two solutions ($a,b$ swapped) or none. But if there is a pair of solutions, there is only the one pair.



      EDIT Because I'm reviewing algebra 2 (see algebra-precalculus tag), I'd ideally like a proof at that level (though it mightn't be possible).



      This arises in factoring simple quadratics and factoring by grouping. e.g. [using different variables]



      $(x+a)(x+b) = x^2+(a+b)x + ab$



      If we find two other numbers $p,q$ with the same sum $p+q=a+b$ and same product $pq=ab$, we can write



      $x^2+(p+q)x + pq = (x+p)(x+q)$



      This is true, but do we also know that $p=a$ and $q=b$? Could there be some other $p,q$ with the same sum and product?



      Certainly, just one of sum or product does not uniquely determine $p,q$. e.g. for $p+q=a+b=4$, we could have $a=2, b=2$ and $p=1, q=3$. For $pq=ab=12$, we could have $a=3, b=4$ and $p=2, q=6$. How do we know that using both contraints always gives one solution?



      In other words, does $p+q=a+b$ and $pq=ab$ have a unique solution, and why?




      My reasoning is easiest with real numbers.



      • $x+y=a => y=-x+a$ gives a falling diagonal line, with slope $-1$, y-intercept $a$, and x-intercept $a$.


      • $xy=b$, for $b>0$, gives the typical curve in the $+,+$ quadrant and in the $-,-$ quadrant. The curve is symmetrical across the rising diagonal $y=x$ (and also across $y=-x$).


      The line might go between the two curves. It might just touch one of them, or intersect twice.



      The single intersection can only occur at $y=x$. Here, $2x=a, x^2=b$, $x=a/2$, $(a/2)^2=b, a^2/4=b, a^2=4b$, and therefore where $a=pm 2sqrtb$. If $a$ is between these values, there is no solution; and if $moda>2sqrtb$, there are two solutions. Because of symetry, these are $x,y$ swapped. i.e. if $(x,y)$ is one solution, $(y,x)$ is the other.



      • $xy$, for $b<0$, gives similar curves but in the $-,+$ and $+,-$ quadrants.

      The line always intersects both curves. Because of symmetry, the intersections are at $(x,y)$ and $(y,x)$.



      It's also possible to show this by manipulating the constraints into a quadratic, and then solving that (e.g. with the quadratic formula). But since the theorem of this question is used to solve quadratics, it seems begging the question to use quadratics to solve it.







      share|cite|improve this question














      To be precise, there are two solutions ($a,b$ swapped) or none. But if there is a pair of solutions, there is only the one pair.



      EDIT Because I'm reviewing algebra 2 (see algebra-precalculus tag), I'd ideally like a proof at that level (though it mightn't be possible).



      This arises in factoring simple quadratics and factoring by grouping. e.g. [using different variables]



      $(x+a)(x+b) = x^2+(a+b)x + ab$



      If we find two other numbers $p,q$ with the same sum $p+q=a+b$ and same product $pq=ab$, we can write



      $x^2+(p+q)x + pq = (x+p)(x+q)$



      This is true, but do we also know that $p=a$ and $q=b$? Could there be some other $p,q$ with the same sum and product?



      Certainly, just one of sum or product does not uniquely determine $p,q$. e.g. for $p+q=a+b=4$, we could have $a=2, b=2$ and $p=1, q=3$. For $pq=ab=12$, we could have $a=3, b=4$ and $p=2, q=6$. How do we know that using both contraints always gives one solution?



      In other words, does $p+q=a+b$ and $pq=ab$ have a unique solution, and why?




      My reasoning is easiest with real numbers.



      • $x+y=a => y=-x+a$ gives a falling diagonal line, with slope $-1$, y-intercept $a$, and x-intercept $a$.


      • $xy=b$, for $b>0$, gives the typical curve in the $+,+$ quadrant and in the $-,-$ quadrant. The curve is symmetrical across the rising diagonal $y=x$ (and also across $y=-x$).


      The line might go between the two curves. It might just touch one of them, or intersect twice.



      The single intersection can only occur at $y=x$. Here, $2x=a, x^2=b$, $x=a/2$, $(a/2)^2=b, a^2/4=b, a^2=4b$, and therefore where $a=pm 2sqrtb$. If $a$ is between these values, there is no solution; and if $moda>2sqrtb$, there are two solutions. Because of symetry, these are $x,y$ swapped. i.e. if $(x,y)$ is one solution, $(y,x)$ is the other.



      • $xy$, for $b<0$, gives similar curves but in the $-,+$ and $+,-$ quadrants.

      The line always intersects both curves. Because of symmetry, the intersections are at $(x,y)$ and $(y,x)$.



      It's also possible to show this by manipulating the constraints into a quadratic, and then solving that (e.g. with the quadratic formula). But since the theorem of this question is used to solve quadratics, it seems begging the question to use quadratics to solve it.









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      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Aug 13 at 8:42

























      asked Aug 13 at 7:34









      hyperpallium

      406313




      406313




















          2 Answers
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          active

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          up vote
          3
          down vote













          If $x,y$ are such that $x+y=a$ and $xy=b$ then $x, y$ are solutions of the equation $X^2-aX+b=0$. As this equation has at most two solutions, the couple $(x,y)$ belongs to a set of at most two elements.



          To prove the initial assertion, separate the two cases $b=0$ and $bneq 0$.



          Case $b=0$
          Then $x$ or $y$ vanishes and the other element equal to $a$.



          Case $b neq 0$ Then neither $x$ nor $y$ vanishes. Then $x =dfracby$ and plug this value in the equation $x+y=a$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





























            up vote
            1
            down vote













            Remark about your writing:



            • I think you are confusing $ x, y$ with $a, b$.

            In general:



            Suppose you are given that the first $n$ elementary symmetric polynomial are equal to some constant $a_i$.:



            $$e_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) =a_i, 1le i le n$$



            where $e_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) = sum_1 le j_1 < j_2 <ldots< j_ile n x_j_1 ldots x_j_i$



            To solve for $x_i$, by using Vieta's formulation, we can form the polynomial:



            $$(x-x_1)(x-x_2) ldots (x-x_n)=0$$



            which will become



            $$x^n -a_1x^n-1+a_2x^n-2+ldots +(-1)^na_n=0$$



            of which by fundamental theorem of algebra, we can find exactly $n$ solutions for $x$. The $x_i$ can then take those values up to permutations of the $n$ solutions.






            share|cite|improve this answer






















            • Thanks, yes I do reverse them, and I'd left out the note about this. Quadratics traditionally have the form $(x+a)(x+b)$, but function graphs traditionally use $x,y$ for coordinates. I'm not sure how to better handle this.
              – hyperpallium
              Aug 13 at 8:44






            • 1




              we can use additional variable such as $z$, which is commonly see in complex number.
              – Siong Thye Goh
              Aug 13 at 8:45










            Your Answer




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            2 Answers
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            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

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            up vote
            3
            down vote













            If $x,y$ are such that $x+y=a$ and $xy=b$ then $x, y$ are solutions of the equation $X^2-aX+b=0$. As this equation has at most two solutions, the couple $(x,y)$ belongs to a set of at most two elements.



            To prove the initial assertion, separate the two cases $b=0$ and $bneq 0$.



            Case $b=0$
            Then $x$ or $y$ vanishes and the other element equal to $a$.



            Case $b neq 0$ Then neither $x$ nor $y$ vanishes. Then $x =dfracby$ and plug this value in the equation $x+y=a$.






            share|cite|improve this answer


























              up vote
              3
              down vote













              If $x,y$ are such that $x+y=a$ and $xy=b$ then $x, y$ are solutions of the equation $X^2-aX+b=0$. As this equation has at most two solutions, the couple $(x,y)$ belongs to a set of at most two elements.



              To prove the initial assertion, separate the two cases $b=0$ and $bneq 0$.



              Case $b=0$
              Then $x$ or $y$ vanishes and the other element equal to $a$.



              Case $b neq 0$ Then neither $x$ nor $y$ vanishes. Then $x =dfracby$ and plug this value in the equation $x+y=a$.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                3
                down vote










                up vote
                3
                down vote









                If $x,y$ are such that $x+y=a$ and $xy=b$ then $x, y$ are solutions of the equation $X^2-aX+b=0$. As this equation has at most two solutions, the couple $(x,y)$ belongs to a set of at most two elements.



                To prove the initial assertion, separate the two cases $b=0$ and $bneq 0$.



                Case $b=0$
                Then $x$ or $y$ vanishes and the other element equal to $a$.



                Case $b neq 0$ Then neither $x$ nor $y$ vanishes. Then $x =dfracby$ and plug this value in the equation $x+y=a$.






                share|cite|improve this answer














                If $x,y$ are such that $x+y=a$ and $xy=b$ then $x, y$ are solutions of the equation $X^2-aX+b=0$. As this equation has at most two solutions, the couple $(x,y)$ belongs to a set of at most two elements.



                To prove the initial assertion, separate the two cases $b=0$ and $bneq 0$.



                Case $b=0$
                Then $x$ or $y$ vanishes and the other element equal to $a$.



                Case $b neq 0$ Then neither $x$ nor $y$ vanishes. Then $x =dfracby$ and plug this value in the equation $x+y=a$.







                share|cite|improve this answer














                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer








                edited Aug 13 at 7:47

























                answered Aug 13 at 7:42









                mathcounterexamples.net

                25k21754




                25k21754




















                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote













                    Remark about your writing:



                    • I think you are confusing $ x, y$ with $a, b$.

                    In general:



                    Suppose you are given that the first $n$ elementary symmetric polynomial are equal to some constant $a_i$.:



                    $$e_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) =a_i, 1le i le n$$



                    where $e_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) = sum_1 le j_1 < j_2 <ldots< j_ile n x_j_1 ldots x_j_i$



                    To solve for $x_i$, by using Vieta's formulation, we can form the polynomial:



                    $$(x-x_1)(x-x_2) ldots (x-x_n)=0$$



                    which will become



                    $$x^n -a_1x^n-1+a_2x^n-2+ldots +(-1)^na_n=0$$



                    of which by fundamental theorem of algebra, we can find exactly $n$ solutions for $x$. The $x_i$ can then take those values up to permutations of the $n$ solutions.






                    share|cite|improve this answer






















                    • Thanks, yes I do reverse them, and I'd left out the note about this. Quadratics traditionally have the form $(x+a)(x+b)$, but function graphs traditionally use $x,y$ for coordinates. I'm not sure how to better handle this.
                      – hyperpallium
                      Aug 13 at 8:44






                    • 1




                      we can use additional variable such as $z$, which is commonly see in complex number.
                      – Siong Thye Goh
                      Aug 13 at 8:45














                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote













                    Remark about your writing:



                    • I think you are confusing $ x, y$ with $a, b$.

                    In general:



                    Suppose you are given that the first $n$ elementary symmetric polynomial are equal to some constant $a_i$.:



                    $$e_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) =a_i, 1le i le n$$



                    where $e_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) = sum_1 le j_1 < j_2 <ldots< j_ile n x_j_1 ldots x_j_i$



                    To solve for $x_i$, by using Vieta's formulation, we can form the polynomial:



                    $$(x-x_1)(x-x_2) ldots (x-x_n)=0$$



                    which will become



                    $$x^n -a_1x^n-1+a_2x^n-2+ldots +(-1)^na_n=0$$



                    of which by fundamental theorem of algebra, we can find exactly $n$ solutions for $x$. The $x_i$ can then take those values up to permutations of the $n$ solutions.






                    share|cite|improve this answer






















                    • Thanks, yes I do reverse them, and I'd left out the note about this. Quadratics traditionally have the form $(x+a)(x+b)$, but function graphs traditionally use $x,y$ for coordinates. I'm not sure how to better handle this.
                      – hyperpallium
                      Aug 13 at 8:44






                    • 1




                      we can use additional variable such as $z$, which is commonly see in complex number.
                      – Siong Thye Goh
                      Aug 13 at 8:45












                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote









                    Remark about your writing:



                    • I think you are confusing $ x, y$ with $a, b$.

                    In general:



                    Suppose you are given that the first $n$ elementary symmetric polynomial are equal to some constant $a_i$.:



                    $$e_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) =a_i, 1le i le n$$



                    where $e_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) = sum_1 le j_1 < j_2 <ldots< j_ile n x_j_1 ldots x_j_i$



                    To solve for $x_i$, by using Vieta's formulation, we can form the polynomial:



                    $$(x-x_1)(x-x_2) ldots (x-x_n)=0$$



                    which will become



                    $$x^n -a_1x^n-1+a_2x^n-2+ldots +(-1)^na_n=0$$



                    of which by fundamental theorem of algebra, we can find exactly $n$ solutions for $x$. The $x_i$ can then take those values up to permutations of the $n$ solutions.






                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    Remark about your writing:



                    • I think you are confusing $ x, y$ with $a, b$.

                    In general:



                    Suppose you are given that the first $n$ elementary symmetric polynomial are equal to some constant $a_i$.:



                    $$e_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) =a_i, 1le i le n$$



                    where $e_i(x_1, ldots, x_n) = sum_1 le j_1 < j_2 <ldots< j_ile n x_j_1 ldots x_j_i$



                    To solve for $x_i$, by using Vieta's formulation, we can form the polynomial:



                    $$(x-x_1)(x-x_2) ldots (x-x_n)=0$$



                    which will become



                    $$x^n -a_1x^n-1+a_2x^n-2+ldots +(-1)^na_n=0$$



                    of which by fundamental theorem of algebra, we can find exactly $n$ solutions for $x$. The $x_i$ can then take those values up to permutations of the $n$ solutions.







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited Aug 13 at 8:14

























                    answered Aug 13 at 8:03









                    Siong Thye Goh

                    78.8k134997




                    78.8k134997











                    • Thanks, yes I do reverse them, and I'd left out the note about this. Quadratics traditionally have the form $(x+a)(x+b)$, but function graphs traditionally use $x,y$ for coordinates. I'm not sure how to better handle this.
                      – hyperpallium
                      Aug 13 at 8:44






                    • 1




                      we can use additional variable such as $z$, which is commonly see in complex number.
                      – Siong Thye Goh
                      Aug 13 at 8:45
















                    • Thanks, yes I do reverse them, and I'd left out the note about this. Quadratics traditionally have the form $(x+a)(x+b)$, but function graphs traditionally use $x,y$ for coordinates. I'm not sure how to better handle this.
                      – hyperpallium
                      Aug 13 at 8:44






                    • 1




                      we can use additional variable such as $z$, which is commonly see in complex number.
                      – Siong Thye Goh
                      Aug 13 at 8:45















                    Thanks, yes I do reverse them, and I'd left out the note about this. Quadratics traditionally have the form $(x+a)(x+b)$, but function graphs traditionally use $x,y$ for coordinates. I'm not sure how to better handle this.
                    – hyperpallium
                    Aug 13 at 8:44




                    Thanks, yes I do reverse them, and I'd left out the note about this. Quadratics traditionally have the form $(x+a)(x+b)$, but function graphs traditionally use $x,y$ for coordinates. I'm not sure how to better handle this.
                    – hyperpallium
                    Aug 13 at 8:44




                    1




                    1




                    we can use additional variable such as $z$, which is commonly see in complex number.
                    – Siong Thye Goh
                    Aug 13 at 8:45




                    we can use additional variable such as $z$, which is commonly see in complex number.
                    – Siong Thye Goh
                    Aug 13 at 8:45












                     

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