Combinatorial doubt, why $^nC_1.^(n-1)C_1neq ^nC_2$

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Two cards are drawn simultaneously (or successively without replacement)
from a well shuffled pack of 52 cards.
$$
#(textone king and one non-king)=^4C_1.^48C_1=frac4!3!*1!.frac48!47!*1!=4*48\
#(textno king)=^48C_2=frac48!46!*2!=frac48*472
$$
Fine, but why can't we do instead
$$
#(textno king)=^48C_1.^47C_1=frac48!47!*1!.frac47!46!*1!=48*47neq ^48C_2
$$
combinatorics binomial-coefficients
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up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Two cards are drawn simultaneously (or successively without replacement)
from a well shuffled pack of 52 cards.
$$
#(textone king and one non-king)=^4C_1.^48C_1=frac4!3!*1!.frac48!47!*1!=4*48\
#(textno king)=^48C_2=frac48!46!*2!=frac48*472
$$
Fine, but why can't we do instead
$$
#(textno king)=^48C_1.^47C_1=frac48!47!*1!.frac47!46!*1!=48*47neq ^48C_2
$$
combinatorics binomial-coefficients
Number of no king should be $binom482$. You can also fix this in your second calculation.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:26
@ss1729, Recheck your no kings calculation. You need to select 2 cards from 48 cards, not 52 cards.
â prog_SAHIL
Sep 3 at 7:33
@ArsenBerk ohh right srry abt that. but my doubt remains the same.
â ss1729
Sep 3 at 7:39
I answered the question as well. What doubt still remains the same according to that answer? I can try to explain it better if you tell me the problem.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:40
Can you see why $^2C_1cdot$$^1C_1ne$$^2C_2$?
â bof
Sep 3 at 8:09
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Two cards are drawn simultaneously (or successively without replacement)
from a well shuffled pack of 52 cards.
$$
#(textone king and one non-king)=^4C_1.^48C_1=frac4!3!*1!.frac48!47!*1!=4*48\
#(textno king)=^48C_2=frac48!46!*2!=frac48*472
$$
Fine, but why can't we do instead
$$
#(textno king)=^48C_1.^47C_1=frac48!47!*1!.frac47!46!*1!=48*47neq ^48C_2
$$
combinatorics binomial-coefficients
Two cards are drawn simultaneously (or successively without replacement)
from a well shuffled pack of 52 cards.
$$
#(textone king and one non-king)=^4C_1.^48C_1=frac4!3!*1!.frac48!47!*1!=4*48\
#(textno king)=^48C_2=frac48!46!*2!=frac48*472
$$
Fine, but why can't we do instead
$$
#(textno king)=^48C_1.^47C_1=frac48!47!*1!.frac47!46!*1!=48*47neq ^48C_2
$$
combinatorics binomial-coefficients
combinatorics binomial-coefficients
edited Sep 6 at 12:56
asked Sep 3 at 7:23
ss1729
1,455621
1,455621
Number of no king should be $binom482$. You can also fix this in your second calculation.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:26
@ss1729, Recheck your no kings calculation. You need to select 2 cards from 48 cards, not 52 cards.
â prog_SAHIL
Sep 3 at 7:33
@ArsenBerk ohh right srry abt that. but my doubt remains the same.
â ss1729
Sep 3 at 7:39
I answered the question as well. What doubt still remains the same according to that answer? I can try to explain it better if you tell me the problem.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:40
Can you see why $^2C_1cdot$$^1C_1ne$$^2C_2$?
â bof
Sep 3 at 8:09
add a comment |Â
Number of no king should be $binom482$. You can also fix this in your second calculation.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:26
@ss1729, Recheck your no kings calculation. You need to select 2 cards from 48 cards, not 52 cards.
â prog_SAHIL
Sep 3 at 7:33
@ArsenBerk ohh right srry abt that. but my doubt remains the same.
â ss1729
Sep 3 at 7:39
I answered the question as well. What doubt still remains the same according to that answer? I can try to explain it better if you tell me the problem.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:40
Can you see why $^2C_1cdot$$^1C_1ne$$^2C_2$?
â bof
Sep 3 at 8:09
Number of no king should be $binom482$. You can also fix this in your second calculation.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:26
Number of no king should be $binom482$. You can also fix this in your second calculation.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:26
@ss1729, Recheck your no kings calculation. You need to select 2 cards from 48 cards, not 52 cards.
â prog_SAHIL
Sep 3 at 7:33
@ss1729, Recheck your no kings calculation. You need to select 2 cards from 48 cards, not 52 cards.
â prog_SAHIL
Sep 3 at 7:33
@ArsenBerk ohh right srry abt that. but my doubt remains the same.
â ss1729
Sep 3 at 7:39
@ArsenBerk ohh right srry abt that. but my doubt remains the same.
â ss1729
Sep 3 at 7:39
I answered the question as well. What doubt still remains the same according to that answer? I can try to explain it better if you tell me the problem.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:40
I answered the question as well. What doubt still remains the same according to that answer? I can try to explain it better if you tell me the problem.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:40
Can you see why $^2C_1cdot$$^1C_1ne$$^2C_2$?
â bof
Sep 3 at 8:09
Can you see why $^2C_1cdot$$^1C_1ne$$^2C_2$?
â bof
Sep 3 at 8:09
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
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oldest
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up vote
2
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accepted
When you do as in your second calculation, what happens is this:
Suppose you first choose spade $2$ (with $binom481$) and then choose spade $3$ (with $binom471$). But this is as same as choosing spade $3$ first and then spade $2$. So, we just count each case twice, which results in finding $2$ times the correct result.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
LHS: choose one object from the set of $n$ objects, the choose another one from the same set withput the first object. The key here isthe word 'same', because this implies that object 1 and object 2 can be chosen in two different ways (or orders, if you wish) as they belong to the same set.
RHS: choose two objects from the same set accounting for the order, i.e. reduce the number of ways to choose these objects by 2. This returns the unique number of such choices.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
When you do this :
$#(textno king)=^48C_1.^47C_1$
You essentially introduce an extra condition and your question becomes :
What are the number of ways to select a card that is not a King and without replacing it select another card which is not a King (again).
The way this differs with the original question is : when you actually have 48 cards and you have to select two cards and hence the order doesn't matter so you use $^48C_2$, so essentially you are choosing two cards at a time which counts as single choice whereas with the other question (mentioned in bold above) you necessarily impose a restriction of choosing a single card first from a pool of $48$ cards and then choose another card from the reduced pool (which is now $47$). So you are now choosing two cards one by one which counts as two separate choices, hence the double value in your answer.
Take this example. You have a set of two spade symbols:
$spadesuit_1 spadesuit_2$
$1)$ If you want to choose two spades at once from the above set then you have:
$spadesuit_1 spadesuit_2$ - (only choice) - $^2C_2=1$
$2)$ Now if you want to choose a(any) diamond first out of the set then you have:
$spadesuit_1$ - $1^st$ Choice
$spadesuit_2$ - $2^nd$ Choice
So it becomes $1+1=2$ Choices, i.e. $^2C_1=2$.
$3)$ Now suppose that you have already chosen a spade (say $spadesuit_1$) and now you want to choose another spade from the remaining set of spades, you have:
$spadesuit_2$ - (only choice) - $^1C_1=1$
So now if you use AND between condition $2)$ and $3)$ you get the result as $^2C_1*^1C_1=2$ and clearly $^2C_1*^1C_1 ne ^2C_2$
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
When you do as in your second calculation, what happens is this:
Suppose you first choose spade $2$ (with $binom481$) and then choose spade $3$ (with $binom471$). But this is as same as choosing spade $3$ first and then spade $2$. So, we just count each case twice, which results in finding $2$ times the correct result.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
When you do as in your second calculation, what happens is this:
Suppose you first choose spade $2$ (with $binom481$) and then choose spade $3$ (with $binom471$). But this is as same as choosing spade $3$ first and then spade $2$. So, we just count each case twice, which results in finding $2$ times the correct result.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
When you do as in your second calculation, what happens is this:
Suppose you first choose spade $2$ (with $binom481$) and then choose spade $3$ (with $binom471$). But this is as same as choosing spade $3$ first and then spade $2$. So, we just count each case twice, which results in finding $2$ times the correct result.
When you do as in your second calculation, what happens is this:
Suppose you first choose spade $2$ (with $binom481$) and then choose spade $3$ (with $binom471$). But this is as same as choosing spade $3$ first and then spade $2$. So, we just count each case twice, which results in finding $2$ times the correct result.
edited Sep 3 at 7:36
answered Sep 3 at 7:30
ArsenBerk
6,9521933
6,9521933
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
LHS: choose one object from the set of $n$ objects, the choose another one from the same set withput the first object. The key here isthe word 'same', because this implies that object 1 and object 2 can be chosen in two different ways (or orders, if you wish) as they belong to the same set.
RHS: choose two objects from the same set accounting for the order, i.e. reduce the number of ways to choose these objects by 2. This returns the unique number of such choices.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
LHS: choose one object from the set of $n$ objects, the choose another one from the same set withput the first object. The key here isthe word 'same', because this implies that object 1 and object 2 can be chosen in two different ways (or orders, if you wish) as they belong to the same set.
RHS: choose two objects from the same set accounting for the order, i.e. reduce the number of ways to choose these objects by 2. This returns the unique number of such choices.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
LHS: choose one object from the set of $n$ objects, the choose another one from the same set withput the first object. The key here isthe word 'same', because this implies that object 1 and object 2 can be chosen in two different ways (or orders, if you wish) as they belong to the same set.
RHS: choose two objects from the same set accounting for the order, i.e. reduce the number of ways to choose these objects by 2. This returns the unique number of such choices.
LHS: choose one object from the set of $n$ objects, the choose another one from the same set withput the first object. The key here isthe word 'same', because this implies that object 1 and object 2 can be chosen in two different ways (or orders, if you wish) as they belong to the same set.
RHS: choose two objects from the same set accounting for the order, i.e. reduce the number of ways to choose these objects by 2. This returns the unique number of such choices.
answered Sep 3 at 8:05
Alex
14k42032
14k42032
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
When you do this :
$#(textno king)=^48C_1.^47C_1$
You essentially introduce an extra condition and your question becomes :
What are the number of ways to select a card that is not a King and without replacing it select another card which is not a King (again).
The way this differs with the original question is : when you actually have 48 cards and you have to select two cards and hence the order doesn't matter so you use $^48C_2$, so essentially you are choosing two cards at a time which counts as single choice whereas with the other question (mentioned in bold above) you necessarily impose a restriction of choosing a single card first from a pool of $48$ cards and then choose another card from the reduced pool (which is now $47$). So you are now choosing two cards one by one which counts as two separate choices, hence the double value in your answer.
Take this example. You have a set of two spade symbols:
$spadesuit_1 spadesuit_2$
$1)$ If you want to choose two spades at once from the above set then you have:
$spadesuit_1 spadesuit_2$ - (only choice) - $^2C_2=1$
$2)$ Now if you want to choose a(any) diamond first out of the set then you have:
$spadesuit_1$ - $1^st$ Choice
$spadesuit_2$ - $2^nd$ Choice
So it becomes $1+1=2$ Choices, i.e. $^2C_1=2$.
$3)$ Now suppose that you have already chosen a spade (say $spadesuit_1$) and now you want to choose another spade from the remaining set of spades, you have:
$spadesuit_2$ - (only choice) - $^1C_1=1$
So now if you use AND between condition $2)$ and $3)$ you get the result as $^2C_1*^1C_1=2$ and clearly $^2C_1*^1C_1 ne ^2C_2$
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
When you do this :
$#(textno king)=^48C_1.^47C_1$
You essentially introduce an extra condition and your question becomes :
What are the number of ways to select a card that is not a King and without replacing it select another card which is not a King (again).
The way this differs with the original question is : when you actually have 48 cards and you have to select two cards and hence the order doesn't matter so you use $^48C_2$, so essentially you are choosing two cards at a time which counts as single choice whereas with the other question (mentioned in bold above) you necessarily impose a restriction of choosing a single card first from a pool of $48$ cards and then choose another card from the reduced pool (which is now $47$). So you are now choosing two cards one by one which counts as two separate choices, hence the double value in your answer.
Take this example. You have a set of two spade symbols:
$spadesuit_1 spadesuit_2$
$1)$ If you want to choose two spades at once from the above set then you have:
$spadesuit_1 spadesuit_2$ - (only choice) - $^2C_2=1$
$2)$ Now if you want to choose a(any) diamond first out of the set then you have:
$spadesuit_1$ - $1^st$ Choice
$spadesuit_2$ - $2^nd$ Choice
So it becomes $1+1=2$ Choices, i.e. $^2C_1=2$.
$3)$ Now suppose that you have already chosen a spade (say $spadesuit_1$) and now you want to choose another spade from the remaining set of spades, you have:
$spadesuit_2$ - (only choice) - $^1C_1=1$
So now if you use AND between condition $2)$ and $3)$ you get the result as $^2C_1*^1C_1=2$ and clearly $^2C_1*^1C_1 ne ^2C_2$
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
When you do this :
$#(textno king)=^48C_1.^47C_1$
You essentially introduce an extra condition and your question becomes :
What are the number of ways to select a card that is not a King and without replacing it select another card which is not a King (again).
The way this differs with the original question is : when you actually have 48 cards and you have to select two cards and hence the order doesn't matter so you use $^48C_2$, so essentially you are choosing two cards at a time which counts as single choice whereas with the other question (mentioned in bold above) you necessarily impose a restriction of choosing a single card first from a pool of $48$ cards and then choose another card from the reduced pool (which is now $47$). So you are now choosing two cards one by one which counts as two separate choices, hence the double value in your answer.
Take this example. You have a set of two spade symbols:
$spadesuit_1 spadesuit_2$
$1)$ If you want to choose two spades at once from the above set then you have:
$spadesuit_1 spadesuit_2$ - (only choice) - $^2C_2=1$
$2)$ Now if you want to choose a(any) diamond first out of the set then you have:
$spadesuit_1$ - $1^st$ Choice
$spadesuit_2$ - $2^nd$ Choice
So it becomes $1+1=2$ Choices, i.e. $^2C_1=2$.
$3)$ Now suppose that you have already chosen a spade (say $spadesuit_1$) and now you want to choose another spade from the remaining set of spades, you have:
$spadesuit_2$ - (only choice) - $^1C_1=1$
So now if you use AND between condition $2)$ and $3)$ you get the result as $^2C_1*^1C_1=2$ and clearly $^2C_1*^1C_1 ne ^2C_2$
When you do this :
$#(textno king)=^48C_1.^47C_1$
You essentially introduce an extra condition and your question becomes :
What are the number of ways to select a card that is not a King and without replacing it select another card which is not a King (again).
The way this differs with the original question is : when you actually have 48 cards and you have to select two cards and hence the order doesn't matter so you use $^48C_2$, so essentially you are choosing two cards at a time which counts as single choice whereas with the other question (mentioned in bold above) you necessarily impose a restriction of choosing a single card first from a pool of $48$ cards and then choose another card from the reduced pool (which is now $47$). So you are now choosing two cards one by one which counts as two separate choices, hence the double value in your answer.
Take this example. You have a set of two spade symbols:
$spadesuit_1 spadesuit_2$
$1)$ If you want to choose two spades at once from the above set then you have:
$spadesuit_1 spadesuit_2$ - (only choice) - $^2C_2=1$
$2)$ Now if you want to choose a(any) diamond first out of the set then you have:
$spadesuit_1$ - $1^st$ Choice
$spadesuit_2$ - $2^nd$ Choice
So it becomes $1+1=2$ Choices, i.e. $^2C_1=2$.
$3)$ Now suppose that you have already chosen a spade (say $spadesuit_1$) and now you want to choose another spade from the remaining set of spades, you have:
$spadesuit_2$ - (only choice) - $^1C_1=1$
So now if you use AND between condition $2)$ and $3)$ you get the result as $^2C_1*^1C_1=2$ and clearly $^2C_1*^1C_1 ne ^2C_2$
edited Sep 3 at 9:39
answered Sep 3 at 8:58
paulplusx
991318
991318
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Number of no king should be $binom482$. You can also fix this in your second calculation.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:26
@ss1729, Recheck your no kings calculation. You need to select 2 cards from 48 cards, not 52 cards.
â prog_SAHIL
Sep 3 at 7:33
@ArsenBerk ohh right srry abt that. but my doubt remains the same.
â ss1729
Sep 3 at 7:39
I answered the question as well. What doubt still remains the same according to that answer? I can try to explain it better if you tell me the problem.
â ArsenBerk
Sep 3 at 7:40
Can you see why $^2C_1cdot$$^1C_1ne$$^2C_2$?
â bof
Sep 3 at 8:09