How to prove that the sum of independent Binomials with different probabilities is not Binomial
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Say I have two biased coins with probabilities of coming up heads $p$ and $r$, where $pne r$.
If I toss each of the coins $n$ times, the number of heads that show up is Poisson Binomial distributed.
But how do I prove that it is not Binomial?
I tried using MGFs but the problem gets complex really fast.
Thank you for your help.
probability probability-distributions
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up vote
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down vote
favorite
Say I have two biased coins with probabilities of coming up heads $p$ and $r$, where $pne r$.
If I toss each of the coins $n$ times, the number of heads that show up is Poisson Binomial distributed.
But how do I prove that it is not Binomial?
I tried using MGFs but the problem gets complex really fast.
Thank you for your help.
probability probability-distributions
It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
â kimchi lover
Sep 4 at 11:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Say I have two biased coins with probabilities of coming up heads $p$ and $r$, where $pne r$.
If I toss each of the coins $n$ times, the number of heads that show up is Poisson Binomial distributed.
But how do I prove that it is not Binomial?
I tried using MGFs but the problem gets complex really fast.
Thank you for your help.
probability probability-distributions
Say I have two biased coins with probabilities of coming up heads $p$ and $r$, where $pne r$.
If I toss each of the coins $n$ times, the number of heads that show up is Poisson Binomial distributed.
But how do I prove that it is not Binomial?
I tried using MGFs but the problem gets complex really fast.
Thank you for your help.
probability probability-distributions
probability probability-distributions
edited Sep 4 at 11:17
GoodDeeds
10.2k21335
10.2k21335
asked Sep 4 at 10:56
INiCOLAl
31
31
It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
â kimchi lover
Sep 4 at 11:15
add a comment |Â
It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
â kimchi lover
Sep 4 at 11:15
It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
â kimchi lover
Sep 4 at 11:15
It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
â kimchi lover
Sep 4 at 11:15
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
But MGF gives you an anwser immediately. Binomial distribution's MGF is
$$(1 - p + pe^t)^n$$
But for your distribution it looks like this
$$prod(1 - p_i + p_ie^t)^n_i$$
Think about this thing as you're thinking about polynomials, replace $e^t$ term with $x$
and check what happens:
$$p^n(frac1p - 1 + x)^n$$
$$prod p_i(frac1p_i - 1 + x)^n_i$$
As you can see, it can not be the same polynomial, unless $p_i$ equals $p$ for all $i$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
If it would be binomial then it must have parameters $2n$ and $q$.
Then the expectation should be $2nq$ and variance should be $2nq(1-q)$.
That leads to $2nq=mathbb EX=np+nr$ or equivalently: $$2q=p+rtag1$$
And $2nq(1-q)=np(1-p)+nr(1-r)$ or equivalently: $$2q-2q^2=p-p^2+r-r^2tag2$$
Substituting $(1)$ in $(2)$ we find:$$(p-r)^2=0$$
This contradicts that $pneq r$ so under that condition it is excluded that we are dealing with binomial distribution.
They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:37
@MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:39
It wouldnâÂÂt take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:42
@MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:54
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
But MGF gives you an anwser immediately. Binomial distribution's MGF is
$$(1 - p + pe^t)^n$$
But for your distribution it looks like this
$$prod(1 - p_i + p_ie^t)^n_i$$
Think about this thing as you're thinking about polynomials, replace $e^t$ term with $x$
and check what happens:
$$p^n(frac1p - 1 + x)^n$$
$$prod p_i(frac1p_i - 1 + x)^n_i$$
As you can see, it can not be the same polynomial, unless $p_i$ equals $p$ for all $i$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
But MGF gives you an anwser immediately. Binomial distribution's MGF is
$$(1 - p + pe^t)^n$$
But for your distribution it looks like this
$$prod(1 - p_i + p_ie^t)^n_i$$
Think about this thing as you're thinking about polynomials, replace $e^t$ term with $x$
and check what happens:
$$p^n(frac1p - 1 + x)^n$$
$$prod p_i(frac1p_i - 1 + x)^n_i$$
As you can see, it can not be the same polynomial, unless $p_i$ equals $p$ for all $i$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
But MGF gives you an anwser immediately. Binomial distribution's MGF is
$$(1 - p + pe^t)^n$$
But for your distribution it looks like this
$$prod(1 - p_i + p_ie^t)^n_i$$
Think about this thing as you're thinking about polynomials, replace $e^t$ term with $x$
and check what happens:
$$p^n(frac1p - 1 + x)^n$$
$$prod p_i(frac1p_i - 1 + x)^n_i$$
As you can see, it can not be the same polynomial, unless $p_i$ equals $p$ for all $i$.
But MGF gives you an anwser immediately. Binomial distribution's MGF is
$$(1 - p + pe^t)^n$$
But for your distribution it looks like this
$$prod(1 - p_i + p_ie^t)^n_i$$
Think about this thing as you're thinking about polynomials, replace $e^t$ term with $x$
and check what happens:
$$p^n(frac1p - 1 + x)^n$$
$$prod p_i(frac1p_i - 1 + x)^n_i$$
As you can see, it can not be the same polynomial, unless $p_i$ equals $p$ for all $i$.
answered Sep 4 at 11:27
Janczar Knurek
261
261
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
If it would be binomial then it must have parameters $2n$ and $q$.
Then the expectation should be $2nq$ and variance should be $2nq(1-q)$.
That leads to $2nq=mathbb EX=np+nr$ or equivalently: $$2q=p+rtag1$$
And $2nq(1-q)=np(1-p)+nr(1-r)$ or equivalently: $$2q-2q^2=p-p^2+r-r^2tag2$$
Substituting $(1)$ in $(2)$ we find:$$(p-r)^2=0$$
This contradicts that $pneq r$ so under that condition it is excluded that we are dealing with binomial distribution.
They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:37
@MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:39
It wouldnâÂÂt take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:42
@MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:54
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
If it would be binomial then it must have parameters $2n$ and $q$.
Then the expectation should be $2nq$ and variance should be $2nq(1-q)$.
That leads to $2nq=mathbb EX=np+nr$ or equivalently: $$2q=p+rtag1$$
And $2nq(1-q)=np(1-p)+nr(1-r)$ or equivalently: $$2q-2q^2=p-p^2+r-r^2tag2$$
Substituting $(1)$ in $(2)$ we find:$$(p-r)^2=0$$
This contradicts that $pneq r$ so under that condition it is excluded that we are dealing with binomial distribution.
They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:37
@MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:39
It wouldnâÂÂt take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:42
@MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:54
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
If it would be binomial then it must have parameters $2n$ and $q$.
Then the expectation should be $2nq$ and variance should be $2nq(1-q)$.
That leads to $2nq=mathbb EX=np+nr$ or equivalently: $$2q=p+rtag1$$
And $2nq(1-q)=np(1-p)+nr(1-r)$ or equivalently: $$2q-2q^2=p-p^2+r-r^2tag2$$
Substituting $(1)$ in $(2)$ we find:$$(p-r)^2=0$$
This contradicts that $pneq r$ so under that condition it is excluded that we are dealing with binomial distribution.
If it would be binomial then it must have parameters $2n$ and $q$.
Then the expectation should be $2nq$ and variance should be $2nq(1-q)$.
That leads to $2nq=mathbb EX=np+nr$ or equivalently: $$2q=p+rtag1$$
And $2nq(1-q)=np(1-p)+nr(1-r)$ or equivalently: $$2q-2q^2=p-p^2+r-r^2tag2$$
Substituting $(1)$ in $(2)$ we find:$$(p-r)^2=0$$
This contradicts that $pneq r$ so under that condition it is excluded that we are dealing with binomial distribution.
edited Sep 4 at 13:53
answered Sep 4 at 11:14
drhab
89.1k541122
89.1k541122
They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:37
@MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:39
It wouldnâÂÂt take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:42
@MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:54
add a comment |Â
They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:37
@MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:39
It wouldnâÂÂt take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:42
@MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:54
They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:37
They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:37
@MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:39
@MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:39
It wouldnâÂÂt take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:42
It wouldnâÂÂt take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
â Mike Earnest
Sep 4 at 13:42
@MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:54
@MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
â drhab
Sep 4 at 13:54
add a comment |Â
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It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
â kimchi lover
Sep 4 at 11:15