Alternating linear forms: are they in direct sum with symmetric linear form?
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Let $E$ a $mathbb R-$vector spaces of dimension $n$. We say that $f$ is $p-$alternating if $$f(x_1,...,x_p)=0,quad (x_1,...,x_p)in E^p$$
whenever $x_i=x_j$ for some $ineq j$ (and $pleq n$). Since $mathbb R$ has a characteristic $neq 2$ this is equivalent to $$f(x_sigma 1,...,x_sigma p)=varepsilon(sigma )f(x_1,...,x_p)$$
for all $sigma in mathfrak S_p$. And such linear form are called "antisymmetric". I know that with matrices, the set of matrices are in direct sum with symmetric and antisymmetric matrices, i.e. $$mathcal M_ntimes n(mathbb R)=mathcal S_noplus mathcal A_n.$$
Question : If I denote $mathcal L_p(E)$ the space of linear form $Eto mathbb R$, $Lambda _p(E)$ the space of $p-$linear form and $mathcal S_p(E)$ the space of symmetric linear form, does it hold that $$mathcal L_p(E)=Lambda _p(E)oplus mathcal S_p(E) ?$$
Attempts
The thing is I don't find any theorem that says that. If $fin mathcal L_p(E)$, then if I denote $$f_ij(x_1,...,x_i,...,x_j,...,x_p)=f(x_1,...,x_j,...,x_i,...,x_p)$$
$$f(x_1,...,x_p)=underbracefracf+f_ij2_:=g+underbracefracf-f_ij2_:=htag*$$
then $g$ is symmetric and $h$ antisymmetric. So
$$mathcal L_p(E)=Lambda _p(E)+mathcal S_p(E) $$
looks true. But the the writing $(*)$ looks far to be unic, so I have big doubt that the sum is direct. Also, I tried : let $fin mathcal S_p(E)cap Lambda _p(E) $.
Then $f(x_1,...,x_p)=f_ij=-f_ij$ anf thus $$2f_ij=0implies f_ij=0,$$
therefore $f=0$. So it looks to be a direct sum. Since I've never sen such a result, I have doubt that my argument is correct.
linear-algebra
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Let $E$ a $mathbb R-$vector spaces of dimension $n$. We say that $f$ is $p-$alternating if $$f(x_1,...,x_p)=0,quad (x_1,...,x_p)in E^p$$
whenever $x_i=x_j$ for some $ineq j$ (and $pleq n$). Since $mathbb R$ has a characteristic $neq 2$ this is equivalent to $$f(x_sigma 1,...,x_sigma p)=varepsilon(sigma )f(x_1,...,x_p)$$
for all $sigma in mathfrak S_p$. And such linear form are called "antisymmetric". I know that with matrices, the set of matrices are in direct sum with symmetric and antisymmetric matrices, i.e. $$mathcal M_ntimes n(mathbb R)=mathcal S_noplus mathcal A_n.$$
Question : If I denote $mathcal L_p(E)$ the space of linear form $Eto mathbb R$, $Lambda _p(E)$ the space of $p-$linear form and $mathcal S_p(E)$ the space of symmetric linear form, does it hold that $$mathcal L_p(E)=Lambda _p(E)oplus mathcal S_p(E) ?$$
Attempts
The thing is I don't find any theorem that says that. If $fin mathcal L_p(E)$, then if I denote $$f_ij(x_1,...,x_i,...,x_j,...,x_p)=f(x_1,...,x_j,...,x_i,...,x_p)$$
$$f(x_1,...,x_p)=underbracefracf+f_ij2_:=g+underbracefracf-f_ij2_:=htag*$$
then $g$ is symmetric and $h$ antisymmetric. So
$$mathcal L_p(E)=Lambda _p(E)+mathcal S_p(E) $$
looks true. But the the writing $(*)$ looks far to be unic, so I have big doubt that the sum is direct. Also, I tried : let $fin mathcal S_p(E)cap Lambda _p(E) $.
Then $f(x_1,...,x_p)=f_ij=-f_ij$ anf thus $$2f_ij=0implies f_ij=0,$$
therefore $f=0$. So it looks to be a direct sum. Since I've never sen such a result, I have doubt that my argument is correct.
linear-algebra
Can you give some examples of an alternating and symmetric linear forms on a vector space of dimension $n>2$? You are using $n$ and $p$ in your question. Are you maybe talking about multilinear forms?
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 11:12
@Christoph: yes, multilinear form. For example, if $E=mathbb R^3$, then $f(x,y)=x_1y_1$ is a $2-$multilinear form where $x=(x_1,x_2,x_3)$ and $(y_1,y_2,y_3)$
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:01
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Let $E$ a $mathbb R-$vector spaces of dimension $n$. We say that $f$ is $p-$alternating if $$f(x_1,...,x_p)=0,quad (x_1,...,x_p)in E^p$$
whenever $x_i=x_j$ for some $ineq j$ (and $pleq n$). Since $mathbb R$ has a characteristic $neq 2$ this is equivalent to $$f(x_sigma 1,...,x_sigma p)=varepsilon(sigma )f(x_1,...,x_p)$$
for all $sigma in mathfrak S_p$. And such linear form are called "antisymmetric". I know that with matrices, the set of matrices are in direct sum with symmetric and antisymmetric matrices, i.e. $$mathcal M_ntimes n(mathbb R)=mathcal S_noplus mathcal A_n.$$
Question : If I denote $mathcal L_p(E)$ the space of linear form $Eto mathbb R$, $Lambda _p(E)$ the space of $p-$linear form and $mathcal S_p(E)$ the space of symmetric linear form, does it hold that $$mathcal L_p(E)=Lambda _p(E)oplus mathcal S_p(E) ?$$
Attempts
The thing is I don't find any theorem that says that. If $fin mathcal L_p(E)$, then if I denote $$f_ij(x_1,...,x_i,...,x_j,...,x_p)=f(x_1,...,x_j,...,x_i,...,x_p)$$
$$f(x_1,...,x_p)=underbracefracf+f_ij2_:=g+underbracefracf-f_ij2_:=htag*$$
then $g$ is symmetric and $h$ antisymmetric. So
$$mathcal L_p(E)=Lambda _p(E)+mathcal S_p(E) $$
looks true. But the the writing $(*)$ looks far to be unic, so I have big doubt that the sum is direct. Also, I tried : let $fin mathcal S_p(E)cap Lambda _p(E) $.
Then $f(x_1,...,x_p)=f_ij=-f_ij$ anf thus $$2f_ij=0implies f_ij=0,$$
therefore $f=0$. So it looks to be a direct sum. Since I've never sen such a result, I have doubt that my argument is correct.
linear-algebra
Let $E$ a $mathbb R-$vector spaces of dimension $n$. We say that $f$ is $p-$alternating if $$f(x_1,...,x_p)=0,quad (x_1,...,x_p)in E^p$$
whenever $x_i=x_j$ for some $ineq j$ (and $pleq n$). Since $mathbb R$ has a characteristic $neq 2$ this is equivalent to $$f(x_sigma 1,...,x_sigma p)=varepsilon(sigma )f(x_1,...,x_p)$$
for all $sigma in mathfrak S_p$. And such linear form are called "antisymmetric". I know that with matrices, the set of matrices are in direct sum with symmetric and antisymmetric matrices, i.e. $$mathcal M_ntimes n(mathbb R)=mathcal S_noplus mathcal A_n.$$
Question : If I denote $mathcal L_p(E)$ the space of linear form $Eto mathbb R$, $Lambda _p(E)$ the space of $p-$linear form and $mathcal S_p(E)$ the space of symmetric linear form, does it hold that $$mathcal L_p(E)=Lambda _p(E)oplus mathcal S_p(E) ?$$
Attempts
The thing is I don't find any theorem that says that. If $fin mathcal L_p(E)$, then if I denote $$f_ij(x_1,...,x_i,...,x_j,...,x_p)=f(x_1,...,x_j,...,x_i,...,x_p)$$
$$f(x_1,...,x_p)=underbracefracf+f_ij2_:=g+underbracefracf-f_ij2_:=htag*$$
then $g$ is symmetric and $h$ antisymmetric. So
$$mathcal L_p(E)=Lambda _p(E)+mathcal S_p(E) $$
looks true. But the the writing $(*)$ looks far to be unic, so I have big doubt that the sum is direct. Also, I tried : let $fin mathcal S_p(E)cap Lambda _p(E) $.
Then $f(x_1,...,x_p)=f_ij=-f_ij$ anf thus $$2f_ij=0implies f_ij=0,$$
therefore $f=0$. So it looks to be a direct sum. Since I've never sen such a result, I have doubt that my argument is correct.
linear-algebra
linear-algebra
edited Sep 4 at 11:59
asked Sep 4 at 10:19
user386627
809215
809215
Can you give some examples of an alternating and symmetric linear forms on a vector space of dimension $n>2$? You are using $n$ and $p$ in your question. Are you maybe talking about multilinear forms?
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 11:12
@Christoph: yes, multilinear form. For example, if $E=mathbb R^3$, then $f(x,y)=x_1y_1$ is a $2-$multilinear form where $x=(x_1,x_2,x_3)$ and $(y_1,y_2,y_3)$
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:01
add a comment |Â
Can you give some examples of an alternating and symmetric linear forms on a vector space of dimension $n>2$? You are using $n$ and $p$ in your question. Are you maybe talking about multilinear forms?
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 11:12
@Christoph: yes, multilinear form. For example, if $E=mathbb R^3$, then $f(x,y)=x_1y_1$ is a $2-$multilinear form where $x=(x_1,x_2,x_3)$ and $(y_1,y_2,y_3)$
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:01
Can you give some examples of an alternating and symmetric linear forms on a vector space of dimension $n>2$? You are using $n$ and $p$ in your question. Are you maybe talking about multilinear forms?
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 11:12
Can you give some examples of an alternating and symmetric linear forms on a vector space of dimension $n>2$? You are using $n$ and $p$ in your question. Are you maybe talking about multilinear forms?
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 11:12
@Christoph: yes, multilinear form. For example, if $E=mathbb R^3$, then $f(x,y)=x_1y_1$ is a $2-$multilinear form where $x=(x_1,x_2,x_3)$ and $(y_1,y_2,y_3)$
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:01
@Christoph: yes, multilinear form. For example, if $E=mathbb R^3$, then $f(x,y)=x_1y_1$ is a $2-$multilinear form where $x=(x_1,x_2,x_3)$ and $(y_1,y_2,y_3)$
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:01
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
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$newcommandRmathbb R$Your $f+f_ij$ and $f-f_ij$ are symmetric and anti-symmetric only with respect to the $i$-th and $j$-th argument. They are not symmetric and anti-symmetric as multilinear forms.
Note that the dimensions of $mathcal L_p(R^n)$, $Lambda_p(R^n)$ and $mathcal S_p(R^n)$ are $n^p$, $binomnp$ and $binomn+p-1p$, respectively. What does this say about your conjecture that $mathcal L_p(R^n)=Lambda_p(R^n)oplusmathcal S_p(R^n)$?
Well see for the first part. Well, for the second part, I tried with some value, and it works... so I guess, this work :-) (but how would you right $f$ as a sum of symmetric and antisymmetric ?)
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:21
It works for $p=2$, try any $p>2$...
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 12:30
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
$newcommandRmathbb R$Your $f+f_ij$ and $f-f_ij$ are symmetric and anti-symmetric only with respect to the $i$-th and $j$-th argument. They are not symmetric and anti-symmetric as multilinear forms.
Note that the dimensions of $mathcal L_p(R^n)$, $Lambda_p(R^n)$ and $mathcal S_p(R^n)$ are $n^p$, $binomnp$ and $binomn+p-1p$, respectively. What does this say about your conjecture that $mathcal L_p(R^n)=Lambda_p(R^n)oplusmathcal S_p(R^n)$?
Well see for the first part. Well, for the second part, I tried with some value, and it works... so I guess, this work :-) (but how would you right $f$ as a sum of symmetric and antisymmetric ?)
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:21
It works for $p=2$, try any $p>2$...
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 12:30
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
$newcommandRmathbb R$Your $f+f_ij$ and $f-f_ij$ are symmetric and anti-symmetric only with respect to the $i$-th and $j$-th argument. They are not symmetric and anti-symmetric as multilinear forms.
Note that the dimensions of $mathcal L_p(R^n)$, $Lambda_p(R^n)$ and $mathcal S_p(R^n)$ are $n^p$, $binomnp$ and $binomn+p-1p$, respectively. What does this say about your conjecture that $mathcal L_p(R^n)=Lambda_p(R^n)oplusmathcal S_p(R^n)$?
Well see for the first part. Well, for the second part, I tried with some value, and it works... so I guess, this work :-) (but how would you right $f$ as a sum of symmetric and antisymmetric ?)
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:21
It works for $p=2$, try any $p>2$...
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 12:30
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
$newcommandRmathbb R$Your $f+f_ij$ and $f-f_ij$ are symmetric and anti-symmetric only with respect to the $i$-th and $j$-th argument. They are not symmetric and anti-symmetric as multilinear forms.
Note that the dimensions of $mathcal L_p(R^n)$, $Lambda_p(R^n)$ and $mathcal S_p(R^n)$ are $n^p$, $binomnp$ and $binomn+p-1p$, respectively. What does this say about your conjecture that $mathcal L_p(R^n)=Lambda_p(R^n)oplusmathcal S_p(R^n)$?
$newcommandRmathbb R$Your $f+f_ij$ and $f-f_ij$ are symmetric and anti-symmetric only with respect to the $i$-th and $j$-th argument. They are not symmetric and anti-symmetric as multilinear forms.
Note that the dimensions of $mathcal L_p(R^n)$, $Lambda_p(R^n)$ and $mathcal S_p(R^n)$ are $n^p$, $binomnp$ and $binomn+p-1p$, respectively. What does this say about your conjecture that $mathcal L_p(R^n)=Lambda_p(R^n)oplusmathcal S_p(R^n)$?
answered Sep 4 at 12:17
Christoph
10.9k1240
10.9k1240
Well see for the first part. Well, for the second part, I tried with some value, and it works... so I guess, this work :-) (but how would you right $f$ as a sum of symmetric and antisymmetric ?)
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:21
It works for $p=2$, try any $p>2$...
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 12:30
add a comment |Â
Well see for the first part. Well, for the second part, I tried with some value, and it works... so I guess, this work :-) (but how would you right $f$ as a sum of symmetric and antisymmetric ?)
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:21
It works for $p=2$, try any $p>2$...
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 12:30
Well see for the first part. Well, for the second part, I tried with some value, and it works... so I guess, this work :-) (but how would you right $f$ as a sum of symmetric and antisymmetric ?)
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:21
Well see for the first part. Well, for the second part, I tried with some value, and it works... so I guess, this work :-) (but how would you right $f$ as a sum of symmetric and antisymmetric ?)
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:21
It works for $p=2$, try any $p>2$...
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 12:30
It works for $p=2$, try any $p>2$...
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 12:30
add a comment |Â
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Can you give some examples of an alternating and symmetric linear forms on a vector space of dimension $n>2$? You are using $n$ and $p$ in your question. Are you maybe talking about multilinear forms?
â Christoph
Sep 4 at 11:12
@Christoph: yes, multilinear form. For example, if $E=mathbb R^3$, then $f(x,y)=x_1y_1$ is a $2-$multilinear form where $x=(x_1,x_2,x_3)$ and $(y_1,y_2,y_3)$
â user386627
Sep 4 at 12:01