Given ∃x.¬p(x), use the Fitch System to prove ¬âˆ€x.p(x).

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











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What I am thinking was I need two formulas,

AX.p(X) => something

AX.p(X) => ~ something



I guess something maybe is the p(x) and the other is ~p(x) since we was given EX.~p(x)..But actually it can't work for me. And I guess maybe is EX.~p(x) and ~EX.~p(x)..But if I am doing that then the it will go to deadend..so I give up..;(



Wish someone can help me.



For note about EE:

1: EX.p(X)
2: AX.(p(X) => something)

3: something EE1,2

But something cann't have the free variable from p..in this sample, then soemthing cannot including X..so if something is p(X) it cannot use EE, but if p(Y) then can use EE.







share|cite|improve this question






















  • Hint: first prove $lnot p(x) vdash lnot forall x ~ p(x)$. Note the $x$ represent different variables.
    – DanielV
    Apr 20 '17 at 3:01










  • Thanks!! slime face ;) @DanielV
    – tang aqua
    Apr 21 '17 at 0:49














up vote
1
down vote

favorite












What I am thinking was I need two formulas,

AX.p(X) => something

AX.p(X) => ~ something



I guess something maybe is the p(x) and the other is ~p(x) since we was given EX.~p(x)..But actually it can't work for me. And I guess maybe is EX.~p(x) and ~EX.~p(x)..But if I am doing that then the it will go to deadend..so I give up..;(



Wish someone can help me.



For note about EE:

1: EX.p(X)
2: AX.(p(X) => something)

3: something EE1,2

But something cann't have the free variable from p..in this sample, then soemthing cannot including X..so if something is p(X) it cannot use EE, but if p(Y) then can use EE.







share|cite|improve this question






















  • Hint: first prove $lnot p(x) vdash lnot forall x ~ p(x)$. Note the $x$ represent different variables.
    – DanielV
    Apr 20 '17 at 3:01










  • Thanks!! slime face ;) @DanielV
    – tang aqua
    Apr 21 '17 at 0:49












up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











What I am thinking was I need two formulas,

AX.p(X) => something

AX.p(X) => ~ something



I guess something maybe is the p(x) and the other is ~p(x) since we was given EX.~p(x)..But actually it can't work for me. And I guess maybe is EX.~p(x) and ~EX.~p(x)..But if I am doing that then the it will go to deadend..so I give up..;(



Wish someone can help me.



For note about EE:

1: EX.p(X)
2: AX.(p(X) => something)

3: something EE1,2

But something cann't have the free variable from p..in this sample, then soemthing cannot including X..so if something is p(X) it cannot use EE, but if p(Y) then can use EE.







share|cite|improve this question














What I am thinking was I need two formulas,

AX.p(X) => something

AX.p(X) => ~ something



I guess something maybe is the p(x) and the other is ~p(x) since we was given EX.~p(x)..But actually it can't work for me. And I guess maybe is EX.~p(x) and ~EX.~p(x)..But if I am doing that then the it will go to deadend..so I give up..;(



Wish someone can help me.



For note about EE:

1: EX.p(X)
2: AX.(p(X) => something)

3: something EE1,2

But something cann't have the free variable from p..in this sample, then soemthing cannot including X..so if something is p(X) it cannot use EE, but if p(Y) then can use EE.









share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Apr 20 '17 at 3:32









Bram28

55.4k33982




55.4k33982










asked Apr 20 '17 at 2:56









tang aqua

233




233











  • Hint: first prove $lnot p(x) vdash lnot forall x ~ p(x)$. Note the $x$ represent different variables.
    – DanielV
    Apr 20 '17 at 3:01










  • Thanks!! slime face ;) @DanielV
    – tang aqua
    Apr 21 '17 at 0:49
















  • Hint: first prove $lnot p(x) vdash lnot forall x ~ p(x)$. Note the $x$ represent different variables.
    – DanielV
    Apr 20 '17 at 3:01










  • Thanks!! slime face ;) @DanielV
    – tang aqua
    Apr 21 '17 at 0:49















Hint: first prove $lnot p(x) vdash lnot forall x ~ p(x)$. Note the $x$ represent different variables.
– DanielV
Apr 20 '17 at 3:01




Hint: first prove $lnot p(x) vdash lnot forall x ~ p(x)$. Note the $x$ represent different variables.
– DanielV
Apr 20 '17 at 3:01












Thanks!! slime face ;) @DanielV
– tang aqua
Apr 21 '17 at 0:49




Thanks!! slime face ;) @DanielV
– tang aqua
Apr 21 '17 at 0:49










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote













Given your EE rule, you need to prove $forall x (neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x P(x))$, which you do by a universal introduction on $neg p(x) rightarrow forall x p(x)$, which on its turn you prove by a conditional Introduction on a subproof that assumes $neg p(x)$ and derives $neg forall x p(x)$ .. and the latter you get by a proof by contradiction as you yourself surmised. So:



  1. $exists x neg p(x)$ Premise


  2. $quad neg p(x)$ Assumption


  3. $quad quad forall x p(x)$ Assumption


  4. $quad quad p(x)$ $forall$ Elim 3


  5. $quad forall x p(x) rightarrow p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 3-4


  6. $quad quad forall x p(x)$ Assumption


  7. $quad quad neg p(x)$ Reiteration 2


  8. $quad forall x p(x) rightarrow neg p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 6-7


  9. $quad neg forall x p(x)$ $neg$ Intro 5,8


  10. $neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 2-9


  11. $forall x (neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x p(x))$ $forall$ Intro 10


  12. $neg forall x p(x)$ $exists$ Elim 1, 11






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • How you know that much~!!?? I always stuck at some points and cannot go through...Probably I go into a wrong way.And Thanks again and again~!!
    – tang aqua
    Apr 20 '17 at 21:22










  • @tangaqua After years of practice you really start to 'know' all the different patterns :) So yeah, that took me a long time, so don't feel bad if you're struggling. And I said some time before: you don't have the most user-friendly system either ... so it is not necessarily that you are bad with logic, but just that you have a hard time putting that into this particular proof system.
    – Bram28
    Apr 20 '17 at 22:06










  • By your inspiration, I just solve the other prove by myself~! Hahaha~! Helps me a lot~
    – tang aqua
    Apr 21 '17 at 0:51










  • @tangaqua Yay! Good for you!! :)
    – Bram28
    Apr 21 '17 at 0:52






  • 2




    @tangaqua You shouldn't try writing a formal proof until you can write an informal proof first. Formal proofs are just a language, not an idea. You have to have the idea (the reason why you think the theorem is true) before you can put the idea into a language.
    – DanielV
    Apr 21 '17 at 3:11

















up vote
1
down vote













Here is my solution:



$1.~exists X~lnot p(X)quad $ Premise



$2.~quad lnot p(c)quad$ Existential Elimination:1, Witness Assumed: $[c]$



$3.~qquadforall X~p(X)quad$ Assumption



$4.~qquad p(c)quad$ Universal Elimination:3



$5.~quad forall X~p(X) implies p(c)quad$ Implication Introduction 3-4



$6.~qquadforall X~p(X)quad$ Assumption



$7.~qquadlnot p(c)quad$ Reiteration:2



$8.~quadforall X p(X) implies lnot p(c)quad$ Implication Introduction: 6-7



$9.~quadlnot forall X~p(X)quad$ Negation Introduction 5,8



$10.~lnot forall X~p(X)quad$ Witness Eliminated 2-9






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    2 Answers
    2






    active

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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

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    active

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    active

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    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Given your EE rule, you need to prove $forall x (neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x P(x))$, which you do by a universal introduction on $neg p(x) rightarrow forall x p(x)$, which on its turn you prove by a conditional Introduction on a subproof that assumes $neg p(x)$ and derives $neg forall x p(x)$ .. and the latter you get by a proof by contradiction as you yourself surmised. So:



    1. $exists x neg p(x)$ Premise


    2. $quad neg p(x)$ Assumption


    3. $quad quad forall x p(x)$ Assumption


    4. $quad quad p(x)$ $forall$ Elim 3


    5. $quad forall x p(x) rightarrow p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 3-4


    6. $quad quad forall x p(x)$ Assumption


    7. $quad quad neg p(x)$ Reiteration 2


    8. $quad forall x p(x) rightarrow neg p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 6-7


    9. $quad neg forall x p(x)$ $neg$ Intro 5,8


    10. $neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 2-9


    11. $forall x (neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x p(x))$ $forall$ Intro 10


    12. $neg forall x p(x)$ $exists$ Elim 1, 11






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • How you know that much~!!?? I always stuck at some points and cannot go through...Probably I go into a wrong way.And Thanks again and again~!!
      – tang aqua
      Apr 20 '17 at 21:22










    • @tangaqua After years of practice you really start to 'know' all the different patterns :) So yeah, that took me a long time, so don't feel bad if you're struggling. And I said some time before: you don't have the most user-friendly system either ... so it is not necessarily that you are bad with logic, but just that you have a hard time putting that into this particular proof system.
      – Bram28
      Apr 20 '17 at 22:06










    • By your inspiration, I just solve the other prove by myself~! Hahaha~! Helps me a lot~
      – tang aqua
      Apr 21 '17 at 0:51










    • @tangaqua Yay! Good for you!! :)
      – Bram28
      Apr 21 '17 at 0:52






    • 2




      @tangaqua You shouldn't try writing a formal proof until you can write an informal proof first. Formal proofs are just a language, not an idea. You have to have the idea (the reason why you think the theorem is true) before you can put the idea into a language.
      – DanielV
      Apr 21 '17 at 3:11














    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Given your EE rule, you need to prove $forall x (neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x P(x))$, which you do by a universal introduction on $neg p(x) rightarrow forall x p(x)$, which on its turn you prove by a conditional Introduction on a subproof that assumes $neg p(x)$ and derives $neg forall x p(x)$ .. and the latter you get by a proof by contradiction as you yourself surmised. So:



    1. $exists x neg p(x)$ Premise


    2. $quad neg p(x)$ Assumption


    3. $quad quad forall x p(x)$ Assumption


    4. $quad quad p(x)$ $forall$ Elim 3


    5. $quad forall x p(x) rightarrow p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 3-4


    6. $quad quad forall x p(x)$ Assumption


    7. $quad quad neg p(x)$ Reiteration 2


    8. $quad forall x p(x) rightarrow neg p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 6-7


    9. $quad neg forall x p(x)$ $neg$ Intro 5,8


    10. $neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 2-9


    11. $forall x (neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x p(x))$ $forall$ Intro 10


    12. $neg forall x p(x)$ $exists$ Elim 1, 11






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • How you know that much~!!?? I always stuck at some points and cannot go through...Probably I go into a wrong way.And Thanks again and again~!!
      – tang aqua
      Apr 20 '17 at 21:22










    • @tangaqua After years of practice you really start to 'know' all the different patterns :) So yeah, that took me a long time, so don't feel bad if you're struggling. And I said some time before: you don't have the most user-friendly system either ... so it is not necessarily that you are bad with logic, but just that you have a hard time putting that into this particular proof system.
      – Bram28
      Apr 20 '17 at 22:06










    • By your inspiration, I just solve the other prove by myself~! Hahaha~! Helps me a lot~
      – tang aqua
      Apr 21 '17 at 0:51










    • @tangaqua Yay! Good for you!! :)
      – Bram28
      Apr 21 '17 at 0:52






    • 2




      @tangaqua You shouldn't try writing a formal proof until you can write an informal proof first. Formal proofs are just a language, not an idea. You have to have the idea (the reason why you think the theorem is true) before you can put the idea into a language.
      – DanielV
      Apr 21 '17 at 3:11












    up vote
    1
    down vote










    up vote
    1
    down vote









    Given your EE rule, you need to prove $forall x (neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x P(x))$, which you do by a universal introduction on $neg p(x) rightarrow forall x p(x)$, which on its turn you prove by a conditional Introduction on a subproof that assumes $neg p(x)$ and derives $neg forall x p(x)$ .. and the latter you get by a proof by contradiction as you yourself surmised. So:



    1. $exists x neg p(x)$ Premise


    2. $quad neg p(x)$ Assumption


    3. $quad quad forall x p(x)$ Assumption


    4. $quad quad p(x)$ $forall$ Elim 3


    5. $quad forall x p(x) rightarrow p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 3-4


    6. $quad quad forall x p(x)$ Assumption


    7. $quad quad neg p(x)$ Reiteration 2


    8. $quad forall x p(x) rightarrow neg p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 6-7


    9. $quad neg forall x p(x)$ $neg$ Intro 5,8


    10. $neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 2-9


    11. $forall x (neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x p(x))$ $forall$ Intro 10


    12. $neg forall x p(x)$ $exists$ Elim 1, 11






    share|cite|improve this answer














    Given your EE rule, you need to prove $forall x (neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x P(x))$, which you do by a universal introduction on $neg p(x) rightarrow forall x p(x)$, which on its turn you prove by a conditional Introduction on a subproof that assumes $neg p(x)$ and derives $neg forall x p(x)$ .. and the latter you get by a proof by contradiction as you yourself surmised. So:



    1. $exists x neg p(x)$ Premise


    2. $quad neg p(x)$ Assumption


    3. $quad quad forall x p(x)$ Assumption


    4. $quad quad p(x)$ $forall$ Elim 3


    5. $quad forall x p(x) rightarrow p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 3-4


    6. $quad quad forall x p(x)$ Assumption


    7. $quad quad neg p(x)$ Reiteration 2


    8. $quad forall x p(x) rightarrow neg p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 6-7


    9. $quad neg forall x p(x)$ $neg$ Intro 5,8


    10. $neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x p(x)$ $rightarrow$ Intro 2-9


    11. $forall x (neg p(x) rightarrow neg forall x p(x))$ $forall$ Intro 10


    12. $neg forall x p(x)$ $exists$ Elim 1, 11







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Apr 21 '17 at 11:32

























    answered Apr 20 '17 at 3:30









    Bram28

    55.4k33982




    55.4k33982











    • How you know that much~!!?? I always stuck at some points and cannot go through...Probably I go into a wrong way.And Thanks again and again~!!
      – tang aqua
      Apr 20 '17 at 21:22










    • @tangaqua After years of practice you really start to 'know' all the different patterns :) So yeah, that took me a long time, so don't feel bad if you're struggling. And I said some time before: you don't have the most user-friendly system either ... so it is not necessarily that you are bad with logic, but just that you have a hard time putting that into this particular proof system.
      – Bram28
      Apr 20 '17 at 22:06










    • By your inspiration, I just solve the other prove by myself~! Hahaha~! Helps me a lot~
      – tang aqua
      Apr 21 '17 at 0:51










    • @tangaqua Yay! Good for you!! :)
      – Bram28
      Apr 21 '17 at 0:52






    • 2




      @tangaqua You shouldn't try writing a formal proof until you can write an informal proof first. Formal proofs are just a language, not an idea. You have to have the idea (the reason why you think the theorem is true) before you can put the idea into a language.
      – DanielV
      Apr 21 '17 at 3:11
















    • How you know that much~!!?? I always stuck at some points and cannot go through...Probably I go into a wrong way.And Thanks again and again~!!
      – tang aqua
      Apr 20 '17 at 21:22










    • @tangaqua After years of practice you really start to 'know' all the different patterns :) So yeah, that took me a long time, so don't feel bad if you're struggling. And I said some time before: you don't have the most user-friendly system either ... so it is not necessarily that you are bad with logic, but just that you have a hard time putting that into this particular proof system.
      – Bram28
      Apr 20 '17 at 22:06










    • By your inspiration, I just solve the other prove by myself~! Hahaha~! Helps me a lot~
      – tang aqua
      Apr 21 '17 at 0:51










    • @tangaqua Yay! Good for you!! :)
      – Bram28
      Apr 21 '17 at 0:52






    • 2




      @tangaqua You shouldn't try writing a formal proof until you can write an informal proof first. Formal proofs are just a language, not an idea. You have to have the idea (the reason why you think the theorem is true) before you can put the idea into a language.
      – DanielV
      Apr 21 '17 at 3:11















    How you know that much~!!?? I always stuck at some points and cannot go through...Probably I go into a wrong way.And Thanks again and again~!!
    – tang aqua
    Apr 20 '17 at 21:22




    How you know that much~!!?? I always stuck at some points and cannot go through...Probably I go into a wrong way.And Thanks again and again~!!
    – tang aqua
    Apr 20 '17 at 21:22












    @tangaqua After years of practice you really start to 'know' all the different patterns :) So yeah, that took me a long time, so don't feel bad if you're struggling. And I said some time before: you don't have the most user-friendly system either ... so it is not necessarily that you are bad with logic, but just that you have a hard time putting that into this particular proof system.
    – Bram28
    Apr 20 '17 at 22:06




    @tangaqua After years of practice you really start to 'know' all the different patterns :) So yeah, that took me a long time, so don't feel bad if you're struggling. And I said some time before: you don't have the most user-friendly system either ... so it is not necessarily that you are bad with logic, but just that you have a hard time putting that into this particular proof system.
    – Bram28
    Apr 20 '17 at 22:06












    By your inspiration, I just solve the other prove by myself~! Hahaha~! Helps me a lot~
    – tang aqua
    Apr 21 '17 at 0:51




    By your inspiration, I just solve the other prove by myself~! Hahaha~! Helps me a lot~
    – tang aqua
    Apr 21 '17 at 0:51












    @tangaqua Yay! Good for you!! :)
    – Bram28
    Apr 21 '17 at 0:52




    @tangaqua Yay! Good for you!! :)
    – Bram28
    Apr 21 '17 at 0:52




    2




    2




    @tangaqua You shouldn't try writing a formal proof until you can write an informal proof first. Formal proofs are just a language, not an idea. You have to have the idea (the reason why you think the theorem is true) before you can put the idea into a language.
    – DanielV
    Apr 21 '17 at 3:11




    @tangaqua You shouldn't try writing a formal proof until you can write an informal proof first. Formal proofs are just a language, not an idea. You have to have the idea (the reason why you think the theorem is true) before you can put the idea into a language.
    – DanielV
    Apr 21 '17 at 3:11










    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Here is my solution:



    $1.~exists X~lnot p(X)quad $ Premise



    $2.~quad lnot p(c)quad$ Existential Elimination:1, Witness Assumed: $[c]$



    $3.~qquadforall X~p(X)quad$ Assumption



    $4.~qquad p(c)quad$ Universal Elimination:3



    $5.~quad forall X~p(X) implies p(c)quad$ Implication Introduction 3-4



    $6.~qquadforall X~p(X)quad$ Assumption



    $7.~qquadlnot p(c)quad$ Reiteration:2



    $8.~quadforall X p(X) implies lnot p(c)quad$ Implication Introduction: 6-7



    $9.~quadlnot forall X~p(X)quad$ Negation Introduction 5,8



    $10.~lnot forall X~p(X)quad$ Witness Eliminated 2-9






    share|cite|improve this answer


























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Here is my solution:



      $1.~exists X~lnot p(X)quad $ Premise



      $2.~quad lnot p(c)quad$ Existential Elimination:1, Witness Assumed: $[c]$



      $3.~qquadforall X~p(X)quad$ Assumption



      $4.~qquad p(c)quad$ Universal Elimination:3



      $5.~quad forall X~p(X) implies p(c)quad$ Implication Introduction 3-4



      $6.~qquadforall X~p(X)quad$ Assumption



      $7.~qquadlnot p(c)quad$ Reiteration:2



      $8.~quadforall X p(X) implies lnot p(c)quad$ Implication Introduction: 6-7



      $9.~quadlnot forall X~p(X)quad$ Negation Introduction 5,8



      $10.~lnot forall X~p(X)quad$ Witness Eliminated 2-9






      share|cite|improve this answer
























        up vote
        1
        down vote










        up vote
        1
        down vote









        Here is my solution:



        $1.~exists X~lnot p(X)quad $ Premise



        $2.~quad lnot p(c)quad$ Existential Elimination:1, Witness Assumed: $[c]$



        $3.~qquadforall X~p(X)quad$ Assumption



        $4.~qquad p(c)quad$ Universal Elimination:3



        $5.~quad forall X~p(X) implies p(c)quad$ Implication Introduction 3-4



        $6.~qquadforall X~p(X)quad$ Assumption



        $7.~qquadlnot p(c)quad$ Reiteration:2



        $8.~quadforall X p(X) implies lnot p(c)quad$ Implication Introduction: 6-7



        $9.~quadlnot forall X~p(X)quad$ Negation Introduction 5,8



        $10.~lnot forall X~p(X)quad$ Witness Eliminated 2-9






        share|cite|improve this answer














        Here is my solution:



        $1.~exists X~lnot p(X)quad $ Premise



        $2.~quad lnot p(c)quad$ Existential Elimination:1, Witness Assumed: $[c]$



        $3.~qquadforall X~p(X)quad$ Assumption



        $4.~qquad p(c)quad$ Universal Elimination:3



        $5.~quad forall X~p(X) implies p(c)quad$ Implication Introduction 3-4



        $6.~qquadforall X~p(X)quad$ Assumption



        $7.~qquadlnot p(c)quad$ Reiteration:2



        $8.~quadforall X p(X) implies lnot p(c)quad$ Implication Introduction: 6-7



        $9.~quadlnot forall X~p(X)quad$ Negation Introduction 5,8



        $10.~lnot forall X~p(X)quad$ Witness Eliminated 2-9







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Aug 23 at 2:10









        Graham Kemp

        80.7k43275




        80.7k43275










        answered Aug 23 at 1:37









        caozi

        184




        184



























             

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