Proving by $epsilon-delta$ definition that $lim_(x,y) to (0,0) fracxy$ does not exist.
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I want to show, by $epsilon-delta$ definition that $$lim_(x,y) to (0,0) fracxyneq L, forall L in mathbbR$$
(Here I am disconsidering infinite limits)
My attempt:
We must show that for every $L$ real exists $epsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$, there is $(x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|fracxy-L|geq epsilon$
Let $L in mathbbR$
Consider $epsilon = 1>0$
Let $delta>0$.
First consider $(x,y)=(0,fracdelta2)$
$||(0,fracdelta2)-(0,0)|| = ||(0,fracdelta2)|| = sqrtfracdelta2^2=|fracdelta2|=fracdelta2<delta$
$|fracxy-L| = |0-L| = |L|$
Then if $|L|geq1=epsilon$, it is done.
So in this case we already found $(x,y)$ such that the limit is not a real number.
Suppose $|L|<1$.
$(x,y) = bigg(L,dfracLL+1bigg)$ is such that
$|fracxy-L|=epsilon$, but I am failing to show that $||(x,y)||<delta$ in this case.
Is this making sense until here? How could I finish this proof? Thanks.
Thanks
real-analysis limits multivariable-calculus epsilon-delta
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up vote
0
down vote
favorite
I want to show, by $epsilon-delta$ definition that $$lim_(x,y) to (0,0) fracxyneq L, forall L in mathbbR$$
(Here I am disconsidering infinite limits)
My attempt:
We must show that for every $L$ real exists $epsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$, there is $(x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|fracxy-L|geq epsilon$
Let $L in mathbbR$
Consider $epsilon = 1>0$
Let $delta>0$.
First consider $(x,y)=(0,fracdelta2)$
$||(0,fracdelta2)-(0,0)|| = ||(0,fracdelta2)|| = sqrtfracdelta2^2=|fracdelta2|=fracdelta2<delta$
$|fracxy-L| = |0-L| = |L|$
Then if $|L|geq1=epsilon$, it is done.
So in this case we already found $(x,y)$ such that the limit is not a real number.
Suppose $|L|<1$.
$(x,y) = bigg(L,dfracLL+1bigg)$ is such that
$|fracxy-L|=epsilon$, but I am failing to show that $||(x,y)||<delta$ in this case.
Is this making sense until here? How could I finish this proof? Thanks.
Thanks
real-analysis limits multivariable-calculus epsilon-delta
2
This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
â Did
Aug 23 at 6:16
Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
I want to show, by $epsilon-delta$ definition that $$lim_(x,y) to (0,0) fracxyneq L, forall L in mathbbR$$
(Here I am disconsidering infinite limits)
My attempt:
We must show that for every $L$ real exists $epsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$, there is $(x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|fracxy-L|geq epsilon$
Let $L in mathbbR$
Consider $epsilon = 1>0$
Let $delta>0$.
First consider $(x,y)=(0,fracdelta2)$
$||(0,fracdelta2)-(0,0)|| = ||(0,fracdelta2)|| = sqrtfracdelta2^2=|fracdelta2|=fracdelta2<delta$
$|fracxy-L| = |0-L| = |L|$
Then if $|L|geq1=epsilon$, it is done.
So in this case we already found $(x,y)$ such that the limit is not a real number.
Suppose $|L|<1$.
$(x,y) = bigg(L,dfracLL+1bigg)$ is such that
$|fracxy-L|=epsilon$, but I am failing to show that $||(x,y)||<delta$ in this case.
Is this making sense until here? How could I finish this proof? Thanks.
Thanks
real-analysis limits multivariable-calculus epsilon-delta
I want to show, by $epsilon-delta$ definition that $$lim_(x,y) to (0,0) fracxyneq L, forall L in mathbbR$$
(Here I am disconsidering infinite limits)
My attempt:
We must show that for every $L$ real exists $epsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$, there is $(x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|fracxy-L|geq epsilon$
Let $L in mathbbR$
Consider $epsilon = 1>0$
Let $delta>0$.
First consider $(x,y)=(0,fracdelta2)$
$||(0,fracdelta2)-(0,0)|| = ||(0,fracdelta2)|| = sqrtfracdelta2^2=|fracdelta2|=fracdelta2<delta$
$|fracxy-L| = |0-L| = |L|$
Then if $|L|geq1=epsilon$, it is done.
So in this case we already found $(x,y)$ such that the limit is not a real number.
Suppose $|L|<1$.
$(x,y) = bigg(L,dfracLL+1bigg)$ is such that
$|fracxy-L|=epsilon$, but I am failing to show that $||(x,y)||<delta$ in this case.
Is this making sense until here? How could I finish this proof? Thanks.
Thanks
real-analysis limits multivariable-calculus epsilon-delta
asked Aug 23 at 4:14
dude3221
34213
34213
2
This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
â Did
Aug 23 at 6:16
Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:15
add a comment |Â
2
This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
â Did
Aug 23 at 6:16
Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:15
2
2
This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
â Did
Aug 23 at 6:16
This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
â Did
Aug 23 at 6:16
Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:15
Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:15
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Suppose the limit is $L$.
Then there exists $delta>0$ such that, for $0<sqrtx^2+y^2<delta$ (with $yne0$),
$$
left|fracxy-Lright|<1
$$
that is,
$$
L-1<fracxy<L+1
$$
Note that $x/y$ takes on both positive and negative values in the specified range, so it's necessarily $L-1<0$ and $L+1>0$, hence $-1<L<1$. In particular, $x/y<2$.
Now it's just a matter of finding $x$ and $y$ so that $0<x^2+y^2<delta^2$ and $x/y>2$.
Choose $y=tx$, with $x>0$: we need $(1+t^2)x^2<delta^2$ and $2t<1$. So we can use
$$
t=frac13
qquad
x=frac12fracdeltasqrt1+(1/3)^2
$$
to falsify $0<x/y<2$.
This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:23
@dude3221 What do you mean by âÂÂdirect proofâ of a false statement?
â egreg
Aug 23 at 16:51
Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:58
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Assume that $Lne 1$ and take the line $(x,x)$ to get contradiction. Next assume $L=1$ and take the line $(0,y)$ to get another contradiction.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
(Concerning your attempt Did's comment says it all.
The sequence $$bf z_n:=left(1over n,(-1)^nover nright)qquad(ngeq1)$$ converges to $(0,0)$, but the function values
$f(bf z_n)=displaystylex_nover y_n=(-1)^n$
have no limit in $mathbb Rcuppminfty$.
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Suppose the limit is $L$.
Then there exists $delta>0$ such that, for $0<sqrtx^2+y^2<delta$ (with $yne0$),
$$
left|fracxy-Lright|<1
$$
that is,
$$
L-1<fracxy<L+1
$$
Note that $x/y$ takes on both positive and negative values in the specified range, so it's necessarily $L-1<0$ and $L+1>0$, hence $-1<L<1$. In particular, $x/y<2$.
Now it's just a matter of finding $x$ and $y$ so that $0<x^2+y^2<delta^2$ and $x/y>2$.
Choose $y=tx$, with $x>0$: we need $(1+t^2)x^2<delta^2$ and $2t<1$. So we can use
$$
t=frac13
qquad
x=frac12fracdeltasqrt1+(1/3)^2
$$
to falsify $0<x/y<2$.
This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:23
@dude3221 What do you mean by âÂÂdirect proofâ of a false statement?
â egreg
Aug 23 at 16:51
Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:58
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Suppose the limit is $L$.
Then there exists $delta>0$ such that, for $0<sqrtx^2+y^2<delta$ (with $yne0$),
$$
left|fracxy-Lright|<1
$$
that is,
$$
L-1<fracxy<L+1
$$
Note that $x/y$ takes on both positive and negative values in the specified range, so it's necessarily $L-1<0$ and $L+1>0$, hence $-1<L<1$. In particular, $x/y<2$.
Now it's just a matter of finding $x$ and $y$ so that $0<x^2+y^2<delta^2$ and $x/y>2$.
Choose $y=tx$, with $x>0$: we need $(1+t^2)x^2<delta^2$ and $2t<1$. So we can use
$$
t=frac13
qquad
x=frac12fracdeltasqrt1+(1/3)^2
$$
to falsify $0<x/y<2$.
This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:23
@dude3221 What do you mean by âÂÂdirect proofâ of a false statement?
â egreg
Aug 23 at 16:51
Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:58
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Suppose the limit is $L$.
Then there exists $delta>0$ such that, for $0<sqrtx^2+y^2<delta$ (with $yne0$),
$$
left|fracxy-Lright|<1
$$
that is,
$$
L-1<fracxy<L+1
$$
Note that $x/y$ takes on both positive and negative values in the specified range, so it's necessarily $L-1<0$ and $L+1>0$, hence $-1<L<1$. In particular, $x/y<2$.
Now it's just a matter of finding $x$ and $y$ so that $0<x^2+y^2<delta^2$ and $x/y>2$.
Choose $y=tx$, with $x>0$: we need $(1+t^2)x^2<delta^2$ and $2t<1$. So we can use
$$
t=frac13
qquad
x=frac12fracdeltasqrt1+(1/3)^2
$$
to falsify $0<x/y<2$.
Suppose the limit is $L$.
Then there exists $delta>0$ such that, for $0<sqrtx^2+y^2<delta$ (with $yne0$),
$$
left|fracxy-Lright|<1
$$
that is,
$$
L-1<fracxy<L+1
$$
Note that $x/y$ takes on both positive and negative values in the specified range, so it's necessarily $L-1<0$ and $L+1>0$, hence $-1<L<1$. In particular, $x/y<2$.
Now it's just a matter of finding $x$ and $y$ so that $0<x^2+y^2<delta^2$ and $x/y>2$.
Choose $y=tx$, with $x>0$: we need $(1+t^2)x^2<delta^2$ and $2t<1$. So we can use
$$
t=frac13
qquad
x=frac12fracdeltasqrt1+(1/3)^2
$$
to falsify $0<x/y<2$.
answered Aug 23 at 9:07
egreg
165k1180187
165k1180187
This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:23
@dude3221 What do you mean by âÂÂdirect proofâ of a false statement?
â egreg
Aug 23 at 16:51
Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:58
add a comment |Â
This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:23
@dude3221 What do you mean by âÂÂdirect proofâ of a false statement?
â egreg
Aug 23 at 16:51
Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:58
This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:23
This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:23
@dude3221 What do you mean by âÂÂdirect proofâ of a false statement?
â egreg
Aug 23 at 16:51
@dude3221 What do you mean by âÂÂdirect proofâ of a false statement?
â egreg
Aug 23 at 16:51
Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:58
Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:58
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Assume that $Lne 1$ and take the line $(x,x)$ to get contradiction. Next assume $L=1$ and take the line $(0,y)$ to get another contradiction.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Assume that $Lne 1$ and take the line $(x,x)$ to get contradiction. Next assume $L=1$ and take the line $(0,y)$ to get another contradiction.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Assume that $Lne 1$ and take the line $(x,x)$ to get contradiction. Next assume $L=1$ and take the line $(0,y)$ to get another contradiction.
Assume that $Lne 1$ and take the line $(x,x)$ to get contradiction. Next assume $L=1$ and take the line $(0,y)$ to get another contradiction.
answered Aug 23 at 7:50
Holo
4,3052629
4,3052629
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
(Concerning your attempt Did's comment says it all.
The sequence $$bf z_n:=left(1over n,(-1)^nover nright)qquad(ngeq1)$$ converges to $(0,0)$, but the function values
$f(bf z_n)=displaystylex_nover y_n=(-1)^n$
have no limit in $mathbb Rcuppminfty$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
(Concerning your attempt Did's comment says it all.
The sequence $$bf z_n:=left(1over n,(-1)^nover nright)qquad(ngeq1)$$ converges to $(0,0)$, but the function values
$f(bf z_n)=displaystylex_nover y_n=(-1)^n$
have no limit in $mathbb Rcuppminfty$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
(Concerning your attempt Did's comment says it all.
The sequence $$bf z_n:=left(1over n,(-1)^nover nright)qquad(ngeq1)$$ converges to $(0,0)$, but the function values
$f(bf z_n)=displaystylex_nover y_n=(-1)^n$
have no limit in $mathbb Rcuppminfty$.
(Concerning your attempt Did's comment says it all.
The sequence $$bf z_n:=left(1over n,(-1)^nover nright)qquad(ngeq1)$$ converges to $(0,0)$, but the function values
$f(bf z_n)=displaystylex_nover y_n=(-1)^n$
have no limit in $mathbb Rcuppminfty$.
answered Aug 23 at 8:46
Christian Blatter
165k7109310
165k7109310
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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2
This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
â Did
Aug 23 at 6:16
Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
â dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:15