How rude is âladies first ruleâ in USA? [closed]
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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9
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I am a male brazilian (born and living) software developer. I'm part of a remote team with people living in Brazil and in USA (born in other countries as well). We've been working together for 1 month.
Currently I am in USA on a business trip to get to know my colleagues working from here.
One day after the work we decided to go out for a happy hour. During the happy hour we started to play some party games (let's say table-tennis) and I got a match against one of my female colleagues (which is also our team leader). Since it was our first match, we were not sure about who was supposed to start playing. I tried to be polite, so I said:
"Ladies first, please go ahead!"
Briefly after she looked at me and said that this is a very rude thing to say in USA. I felt really awkward and promptly apologized to her. In Brazil usually it is not a rude thing.
I know that the "ladies first rule" is something that may sound rude in some cases, but in this situation in particular I was just trying to be polite with a colleague that I hold a huge respect.
Question: How rude is "ladies first rule" in USA?
united-states coworkers parties
closed as primarily opinion-based by JMac, apaul, sphennings, Flo, ElizB Aug 9 at 18:50
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
I am a male brazilian (born and living) software developer. I'm part of a remote team with people living in Brazil and in USA (born in other countries as well). We've been working together for 1 month.
Currently I am in USA on a business trip to get to know my colleagues working from here.
One day after the work we decided to go out for a happy hour. During the happy hour we started to play some party games (let's say table-tennis) and I got a match against one of my female colleagues (which is also our team leader). Since it was our first match, we were not sure about who was supposed to start playing. I tried to be polite, so I said:
"Ladies first, please go ahead!"
Briefly after she looked at me and said that this is a very rude thing to say in USA. I felt really awkward and promptly apologized to her. In Brazil usually it is not a rude thing.
I know that the "ladies first rule" is something that may sound rude in some cases, but in this situation in particular I was just trying to be polite with a colleague that I hold a huge respect.
Question: How rude is "ladies first rule" in USA?
united-states coworkers parties
closed as primarily opinion-based by JMac, apaul, sphennings, Flo, ElizB Aug 9 at 18:50
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
3
This isn't really a good fit for this site right now. The answers would be too opinion based. Personally, I'd say the answer to this question can vary quite a bit with different people. Some might be offended you think they should get special treatment because they are a woman. Some still believe "ladies first" is the right approach. Most probably don't care either way.
â JMac
Aug 9 at 17:17
3
@Jmac on meta there have been discussion of etiquette questions in particular, I don't see that this is all that different.
â Upper_Case
Aug 9 at 17:30
6
Where in the US did this happen/is the woman from? JMac's right; in the 'American South', for example, probably most people think it's rude to not follow the ladies first rule. Somewhere like San Francisco or Portland, though, and the exact opposite is true.
â TylerH
Aug 9 at 18:17
2
Should this get closed, a better rephrasing to be more on topic with IPS may be more along the vein of, 'Why was this considered rude and what's a better social alternative?'
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:24
1
@mbomb007 There are plenty of alternatives to saying that, some of which have already been listed below in other answers. Up voting and down voting is what solves what's the 'objectively best' answer because IPS problems are never clean-cut and 'one shoe fits all'.
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:50
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
I am a male brazilian (born and living) software developer. I'm part of a remote team with people living in Brazil and in USA (born in other countries as well). We've been working together for 1 month.
Currently I am in USA on a business trip to get to know my colleagues working from here.
One day after the work we decided to go out for a happy hour. During the happy hour we started to play some party games (let's say table-tennis) and I got a match against one of my female colleagues (which is also our team leader). Since it was our first match, we were not sure about who was supposed to start playing. I tried to be polite, so I said:
"Ladies first, please go ahead!"
Briefly after she looked at me and said that this is a very rude thing to say in USA. I felt really awkward and promptly apologized to her. In Brazil usually it is not a rude thing.
I know that the "ladies first rule" is something that may sound rude in some cases, but in this situation in particular I was just trying to be polite with a colleague that I hold a huge respect.
Question: How rude is "ladies first rule" in USA?
united-states coworkers parties
I am a male brazilian (born and living) software developer. I'm part of a remote team with people living in Brazil and in USA (born in other countries as well). We've been working together for 1 month.
Currently I am in USA on a business trip to get to know my colleagues working from here.
One day after the work we decided to go out for a happy hour. During the happy hour we started to play some party games (let's say table-tennis) and I got a match against one of my female colleagues (which is also our team leader). Since it was our first match, we were not sure about who was supposed to start playing. I tried to be polite, so I said:
"Ladies first, please go ahead!"
Briefly after she looked at me and said that this is a very rude thing to say in USA. I felt really awkward and promptly apologized to her. In Brazil usually it is not a rude thing.
I know that the "ladies first rule" is something that may sound rude in some cases, but in this situation in particular I was just trying to be polite with a colleague that I hold a huge respect.
Question: How rude is "ladies first rule" in USA?
united-states coworkers parties
asked Aug 9 at 16:58
Bonifacio
1545
1545
closed as primarily opinion-based by JMac, apaul, sphennings, Flo, ElizB Aug 9 at 18:50
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
closed as primarily opinion-based by JMac, apaul, sphennings, Flo, ElizB Aug 9 at 18:50
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
3
This isn't really a good fit for this site right now. The answers would be too opinion based. Personally, I'd say the answer to this question can vary quite a bit with different people. Some might be offended you think they should get special treatment because they are a woman. Some still believe "ladies first" is the right approach. Most probably don't care either way.
â JMac
Aug 9 at 17:17
3
@Jmac on meta there have been discussion of etiquette questions in particular, I don't see that this is all that different.
â Upper_Case
Aug 9 at 17:30
6
Where in the US did this happen/is the woman from? JMac's right; in the 'American South', for example, probably most people think it's rude to not follow the ladies first rule. Somewhere like San Francisco or Portland, though, and the exact opposite is true.
â TylerH
Aug 9 at 18:17
2
Should this get closed, a better rephrasing to be more on topic with IPS may be more along the vein of, 'Why was this considered rude and what's a better social alternative?'
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:24
1
@mbomb007 There are plenty of alternatives to saying that, some of which have already been listed below in other answers. Up voting and down voting is what solves what's the 'objectively best' answer because IPS problems are never clean-cut and 'one shoe fits all'.
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:50
 |Â
show 3 more comments
3
This isn't really a good fit for this site right now. The answers would be too opinion based. Personally, I'd say the answer to this question can vary quite a bit with different people. Some might be offended you think they should get special treatment because they are a woman. Some still believe "ladies first" is the right approach. Most probably don't care either way.
â JMac
Aug 9 at 17:17
3
@Jmac on meta there have been discussion of etiquette questions in particular, I don't see that this is all that different.
â Upper_Case
Aug 9 at 17:30
6
Where in the US did this happen/is the woman from? JMac's right; in the 'American South', for example, probably most people think it's rude to not follow the ladies first rule. Somewhere like San Francisco or Portland, though, and the exact opposite is true.
â TylerH
Aug 9 at 18:17
2
Should this get closed, a better rephrasing to be more on topic with IPS may be more along the vein of, 'Why was this considered rude and what's a better social alternative?'
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:24
1
@mbomb007 There are plenty of alternatives to saying that, some of which have already been listed below in other answers. Up voting and down voting is what solves what's the 'objectively best' answer because IPS problems are never clean-cut and 'one shoe fits all'.
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:50
3
3
This isn't really a good fit for this site right now. The answers would be too opinion based. Personally, I'd say the answer to this question can vary quite a bit with different people. Some might be offended you think they should get special treatment because they are a woman. Some still believe "ladies first" is the right approach. Most probably don't care either way.
â JMac
Aug 9 at 17:17
This isn't really a good fit for this site right now. The answers would be too opinion based. Personally, I'd say the answer to this question can vary quite a bit with different people. Some might be offended you think they should get special treatment because they are a woman. Some still believe "ladies first" is the right approach. Most probably don't care either way.
â JMac
Aug 9 at 17:17
3
3
@Jmac on meta there have been discussion of etiquette questions in particular, I don't see that this is all that different.
â Upper_Case
Aug 9 at 17:30
@Jmac on meta there have been discussion of etiquette questions in particular, I don't see that this is all that different.
â Upper_Case
Aug 9 at 17:30
6
6
Where in the US did this happen/is the woman from? JMac's right; in the 'American South', for example, probably most people think it's rude to not follow the ladies first rule. Somewhere like San Francisco or Portland, though, and the exact opposite is true.
â TylerH
Aug 9 at 18:17
Where in the US did this happen/is the woman from? JMac's right; in the 'American South', for example, probably most people think it's rude to not follow the ladies first rule. Somewhere like San Francisco or Portland, though, and the exact opposite is true.
â TylerH
Aug 9 at 18:17
2
2
Should this get closed, a better rephrasing to be more on topic with IPS may be more along the vein of, 'Why was this considered rude and what's a better social alternative?'
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:24
Should this get closed, a better rephrasing to be more on topic with IPS may be more along the vein of, 'Why was this considered rude and what's a better social alternative?'
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:24
1
1
@mbomb007 There are plenty of alternatives to saying that, some of which have already been listed below in other answers. Up voting and down voting is what solves what's the 'objectively best' answer because IPS problems are never clean-cut and 'one shoe fits all'.
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:50
@mbomb007 There are plenty of alternatives to saying that, some of which have already been listed below in other answers. Up voting and down voting is what solves what's the 'objectively best' answer because IPS problems are never clean-cut and 'one shoe fits all'.
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:50
 |Â
show 3 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
26
down vote
accepted
To answer your question: no, the 'ladies first' rule isn't inherently rude. However, the response to your gesture of "ladies first" will vary. Some may take it as patronizing, as if you're insisting they're incapable of opening the door themselves. Some women may take it as a flirtatious gesture, which is a situation you may want to avoid if you're coworkers with these women. Others may respond positively, and view it as proper and chivalrous etiquette.
While you could ask, "Would you like to go first?", this could cause a weird and unnatural break in the conversation or walk. My suggestion is to still open doors for female and male colleagues, but instead say something along the lines of "After you" instead of "ladies first". This removes the somewhat complicated gender roles and obligations, and now frames the gesture as a common courtesy. Now, the underlying social implication is:
I am happy to perform this polite gesture because I enjoy being courteous to others!
Rather than:
I am a man, you are a woman, and this is what men have to do for women.
I hope this helps!
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
"Ladies first" could be offensive to people that believe that women should not receive special treatment and may constitute this action as being sexist. Some people would categorize "lady first" as a form of chivalry and not be offended, but thankful of the action.
I recommend in this kind of situation in the future you merely ask your American colleague if she would like to go first, instead of saying "ladies first."
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I don't really disagree with the other answers, but wanted to expand a little. The US is very big, and there are very different cultures in different regions, but for the sake of simplicity we can group these into the "North" and "South".
(Bias alert, I'm from the South).
Please note, this is painting with very broad strokes
In the South, chivalry is still the norm. People even talk about "Southern gentlemen" as the sort of ideal archetype. In the South, you are almost expected to hold the door for women, allow them to go first, help them carry stuff, etc. Failure to do this usually won't get a verbal reprimand, but you will come off as rude. Ladies first wouldn't almost never be considered rude here.
People in the North tend to fancy themselves as the modern and progressive-minded bunch. As such, you are more likely to encounter people who see polite acts as somehow condescending. They go to lengths to treat everyone equally, even if that means equally rude. Ladies first is more likely to be seen as rude here.
Though in my personal opinion, any woman who gets actually offended by Ladies first is beyond saving and should be avoided as much as possible.
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
26
down vote
accepted
To answer your question: no, the 'ladies first' rule isn't inherently rude. However, the response to your gesture of "ladies first" will vary. Some may take it as patronizing, as if you're insisting they're incapable of opening the door themselves. Some women may take it as a flirtatious gesture, which is a situation you may want to avoid if you're coworkers with these women. Others may respond positively, and view it as proper and chivalrous etiquette.
While you could ask, "Would you like to go first?", this could cause a weird and unnatural break in the conversation or walk. My suggestion is to still open doors for female and male colleagues, but instead say something along the lines of "After you" instead of "ladies first". This removes the somewhat complicated gender roles and obligations, and now frames the gesture as a common courtesy. Now, the underlying social implication is:
I am happy to perform this polite gesture because I enjoy being courteous to others!
Rather than:
I am a man, you are a woman, and this is what men have to do for women.
I hope this helps!
add a comment |Â
up vote
26
down vote
accepted
To answer your question: no, the 'ladies first' rule isn't inherently rude. However, the response to your gesture of "ladies first" will vary. Some may take it as patronizing, as if you're insisting they're incapable of opening the door themselves. Some women may take it as a flirtatious gesture, which is a situation you may want to avoid if you're coworkers with these women. Others may respond positively, and view it as proper and chivalrous etiquette.
While you could ask, "Would you like to go first?", this could cause a weird and unnatural break in the conversation or walk. My suggestion is to still open doors for female and male colleagues, but instead say something along the lines of "After you" instead of "ladies first". This removes the somewhat complicated gender roles and obligations, and now frames the gesture as a common courtesy. Now, the underlying social implication is:
I am happy to perform this polite gesture because I enjoy being courteous to others!
Rather than:
I am a man, you are a woman, and this is what men have to do for women.
I hope this helps!
add a comment |Â
up vote
26
down vote
accepted
up vote
26
down vote
accepted
To answer your question: no, the 'ladies first' rule isn't inherently rude. However, the response to your gesture of "ladies first" will vary. Some may take it as patronizing, as if you're insisting they're incapable of opening the door themselves. Some women may take it as a flirtatious gesture, which is a situation you may want to avoid if you're coworkers with these women. Others may respond positively, and view it as proper and chivalrous etiquette.
While you could ask, "Would you like to go first?", this could cause a weird and unnatural break in the conversation or walk. My suggestion is to still open doors for female and male colleagues, but instead say something along the lines of "After you" instead of "ladies first". This removes the somewhat complicated gender roles and obligations, and now frames the gesture as a common courtesy. Now, the underlying social implication is:
I am happy to perform this polite gesture because I enjoy being courteous to others!
Rather than:
I am a man, you are a woman, and this is what men have to do for women.
I hope this helps!
To answer your question: no, the 'ladies first' rule isn't inherently rude. However, the response to your gesture of "ladies first" will vary. Some may take it as patronizing, as if you're insisting they're incapable of opening the door themselves. Some women may take it as a flirtatious gesture, which is a situation you may want to avoid if you're coworkers with these women. Others may respond positively, and view it as proper and chivalrous etiquette.
While you could ask, "Would you like to go first?", this could cause a weird and unnatural break in the conversation or walk. My suggestion is to still open doors for female and male colleagues, but instead say something along the lines of "After you" instead of "ladies first". This removes the somewhat complicated gender roles and obligations, and now frames the gesture as a common courtesy. Now, the underlying social implication is:
I am happy to perform this polite gesture because I enjoy being courteous to others!
Rather than:
I am a man, you are a woman, and this is what men have to do for women.
I hope this helps!
answered Aug 9 at 17:41
BFG95
2,016424
2,016424
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
"Ladies first" could be offensive to people that believe that women should not receive special treatment and may constitute this action as being sexist. Some people would categorize "lady first" as a form of chivalry and not be offended, but thankful of the action.
I recommend in this kind of situation in the future you merely ask your American colleague if she would like to go first, instead of saying "ladies first."
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
"Ladies first" could be offensive to people that believe that women should not receive special treatment and may constitute this action as being sexist. Some people would categorize "lady first" as a form of chivalry and not be offended, but thankful of the action.
I recommend in this kind of situation in the future you merely ask your American colleague if she would like to go first, instead of saying "ladies first."
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
"Ladies first" could be offensive to people that believe that women should not receive special treatment and may constitute this action as being sexist. Some people would categorize "lady first" as a form of chivalry and not be offended, but thankful of the action.
I recommend in this kind of situation in the future you merely ask your American colleague if she would like to go first, instead of saying "ladies first."
"Ladies first" could be offensive to people that believe that women should not receive special treatment and may constitute this action as being sexist. Some people would categorize "lady first" as a form of chivalry and not be offended, but thankful of the action.
I recommend in this kind of situation in the future you merely ask your American colleague if she would like to go first, instead of saying "ladies first."
answered Aug 9 at 17:31
jcmack
8707
8707
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I don't really disagree with the other answers, but wanted to expand a little. The US is very big, and there are very different cultures in different regions, but for the sake of simplicity we can group these into the "North" and "South".
(Bias alert, I'm from the South).
Please note, this is painting with very broad strokes
In the South, chivalry is still the norm. People even talk about "Southern gentlemen" as the sort of ideal archetype. In the South, you are almost expected to hold the door for women, allow them to go first, help them carry stuff, etc. Failure to do this usually won't get a verbal reprimand, but you will come off as rude. Ladies first wouldn't almost never be considered rude here.
People in the North tend to fancy themselves as the modern and progressive-minded bunch. As such, you are more likely to encounter people who see polite acts as somehow condescending. They go to lengths to treat everyone equally, even if that means equally rude. Ladies first is more likely to be seen as rude here.
Though in my personal opinion, any woman who gets actually offended by Ladies first is beyond saving and should be avoided as much as possible.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I don't really disagree with the other answers, but wanted to expand a little. The US is very big, and there are very different cultures in different regions, but for the sake of simplicity we can group these into the "North" and "South".
(Bias alert, I'm from the South).
Please note, this is painting with very broad strokes
In the South, chivalry is still the norm. People even talk about "Southern gentlemen" as the sort of ideal archetype. In the South, you are almost expected to hold the door for women, allow them to go first, help them carry stuff, etc. Failure to do this usually won't get a verbal reprimand, but you will come off as rude. Ladies first wouldn't almost never be considered rude here.
People in the North tend to fancy themselves as the modern and progressive-minded bunch. As such, you are more likely to encounter people who see polite acts as somehow condescending. They go to lengths to treat everyone equally, even if that means equally rude. Ladies first is more likely to be seen as rude here.
Though in my personal opinion, any woman who gets actually offended by Ladies first is beyond saving and should be avoided as much as possible.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
I don't really disagree with the other answers, but wanted to expand a little. The US is very big, and there are very different cultures in different regions, but for the sake of simplicity we can group these into the "North" and "South".
(Bias alert, I'm from the South).
Please note, this is painting with very broad strokes
In the South, chivalry is still the norm. People even talk about "Southern gentlemen" as the sort of ideal archetype. In the South, you are almost expected to hold the door for women, allow them to go first, help them carry stuff, etc. Failure to do this usually won't get a verbal reprimand, but you will come off as rude. Ladies first wouldn't almost never be considered rude here.
People in the North tend to fancy themselves as the modern and progressive-minded bunch. As such, you are more likely to encounter people who see polite acts as somehow condescending. They go to lengths to treat everyone equally, even if that means equally rude. Ladies first is more likely to be seen as rude here.
Though in my personal opinion, any woman who gets actually offended by Ladies first is beyond saving and should be avoided as much as possible.
I don't really disagree with the other answers, but wanted to expand a little. The US is very big, and there are very different cultures in different regions, but for the sake of simplicity we can group these into the "North" and "South".
(Bias alert, I'm from the South).
Please note, this is painting with very broad strokes
In the South, chivalry is still the norm. People even talk about "Southern gentlemen" as the sort of ideal archetype. In the South, you are almost expected to hold the door for women, allow them to go first, help them carry stuff, etc. Failure to do this usually won't get a verbal reprimand, but you will come off as rude. Ladies first wouldn't almost never be considered rude here.
People in the North tend to fancy themselves as the modern and progressive-minded bunch. As such, you are more likely to encounter people who see polite acts as somehow condescending. They go to lengths to treat everyone equally, even if that means equally rude. Ladies first is more likely to be seen as rude here.
Though in my personal opinion, any woman who gets actually offended by Ladies first is beyond saving and should be avoided as much as possible.
answered Aug 9 at 19:05
SuperStew
1
1
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
3
This isn't really a good fit for this site right now. The answers would be too opinion based. Personally, I'd say the answer to this question can vary quite a bit with different people. Some might be offended you think they should get special treatment because they are a woman. Some still believe "ladies first" is the right approach. Most probably don't care either way.
â JMac
Aug 9 at 17:17
3
@Jmac on meta there have been discussion of etiquette questions in particular, I don't see that this is all that different.
â Upper_Case
Aug 9 at 17:30
6
Where in the US did this happen/is the woman from? JMac's right; in the 'American South', for example, probably most people think it's rude to not follow the ladies first rule. Somewhere like San Francisco or Portland, though, and the exact opposite is true.
â TylerH
Aug 9 at 18:17
2
Should this get closed, a better rephrasing to be more on topic with IPS may be more along the vein of, 'Why was this considered rude and what's a better social alternative?'
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:24
1
@mbomb007 There are plenty of alternatives to saying that, some of which have already been listed below in other answers. Up voting and down voting is what solves what's the 'objectively best' answer because IPS problems are never clean-cut and 'one shoe fits all'.
â Jess K.
Aug 9 at 18:50