Are there any distributions other than Cauchy for which the arithmetic mean of a sample follows the same distribution?

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If $X$ follows a Cauchy distribution then $Y = barX = frac1n sum_i=1^n X_i$ also follows exactly the same distribution as $X$; see this thread.



  • Does this property have a name?


  • Are there any other distributions for which this is true?


EDIT



Another way of asking this question:



let $X$ be a random variable with probability density $f(x)$.



let $Y=frac 1 nsum_i=1 ^n X_i$, where $X_i$ denotes the ith observation of $X$.



$Y$ itself can be considered as a random variable, without conditioning on any specific values of $X$.



If $X$ follows a Cauchy distribution, then the probability density function of $Y$ is $f(x)$



Are there any other kinds of (non trivial*) probability density functions for $f(x)$ that result in $Y$ having a probability density function of $f(x)$?



*The only trivial example I can think of is a Dirac delta. i.e. not a random variable.










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 1




    This is related to a property of stable distributions. Cauchy is a stable distribution, as is Normal distribution, but the sample mean in Normal population isn't identically distributed as each $X_i$, though it is Normal.
    – StubbornAtom
    Sep 10 at 11:28










  • Your title makes little sense, because the "expected value of a sample" is a number. Do you mean the arithmetic mean of the sample instead? The question is also vague: by "distribution" do you mean a specific distribution or do you mean--as is suggested by the term "Cauchy"--a family of distributions? That's not some minor subtlety: the answer completely changes depending on what you mean. Please edit your post to clarify it.
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 13:39











  • @whuber, I added a second part to the question which hopefully tightens down the range of possible interpretations.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 14:06










  • Thank you; that clears most of it up. However, there are different answers depending on whether you fix $n$ or if you want this result to hold for all $n.$ If it's the latter, the condition on the cf or cgf is severe and leads to a ready solution. If it's the former, then potentially there are additional solutions.
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 14:11










  • I was thinking for all $n$ but if anyone wants to provide an analysis on a fixed $n$ also, that would be welcome.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 14:13
















up vote
10
down vote

favorite
3












If $X$ follows a Cauchy distribution then $Y = barX = frac1n sum_i=1^n X_i$ also follows exactly the same distribution as $X$; see this thread.



  • Does this property have a name?


  • Are there any other distributions for which this is true?


EDIT



Another way of asking this question:



let $X$ be a random variable with probability density $f(x)$.



let $Y=frac 1 nsum_i=1 ^n X_i$, where $X_i$ denotes the ith observation of $X$.



$Y$ itself can be considered as a random variable, without conditioning on any specific values of $X$.



If $X$ follows a Cauchy distribution, then the probability density function of $Y$ is $f(x)$



Are there any other kinds of (non trivial*) probability density functions for $f(x)$ that result in $Y$ having a probability density function of $f(x)$?



*The only trivial example I can think of is a Dirac delta. i.e. not a random variable.










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 1




    This is related to a property of stable distributions. Cauchy is a stable distribution, as is Normal distribution, but the sample mean in Normal population isn't identically distributed as each $X_i$, though it is Normal.
    – StubbornAtom
    Sep 10 at 11:28










  • Your title makes little sense, because the "expected value of a sample" is a number. Do you mean the arithmetic mean of the sample instead? The question is also vague: by "distribution" do you mean a specific distribution or do you mean--as is suggested by the term "Cauchy"--a family of distributions? That's not some minor subtlety: the answer completely changes depending on what you mean. Please edit your post to clarify it.
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 13:39











  • @whuber, I added a second part to the question which hopefully tightens down the range of possible interpretations.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 14:06










  • Thank you; that clears most of it up. However, there are different answers depending on whether you fix $n$ or if you want this result to hold for all $n.$ If it's the latter, the condition on the cf or cgf is severe and leads to a ready solution. If it's the former, then potentially there are additional solutions.
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 14:11










  • I was thinking for all $n$ but if anyone wants to provide an analysis on a fixed $n$ also, that would be welcome.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 14:13












up vote
10
down vote

favorite
3









up vote
10
down vote

favorite
3






3





If $X$ follows a Cauchy distribution then $Y = barX = frac1n sum_i=1^n X_i$ also follows exactly the same distribution as $X$; see this thread.



  • Does this property have a name?


  • Are there any other distributions for which this is true?


EDIT



Another way of asking this question:



let $X$ be a random variable with probability density $f(x)$.



let $Y=frac 1 nsum_i=1 ^n X_i$, where $X_i$ denotes the ith observation of $X$.



$Y$ itself can be considered as a random variable, without conditioning on any specific values of $X$.



If $X$ follows a Cauchy distribution, then the probability density function of $Y$ is $f(x)$



Are there any other kinds of (non trivial*) probability density functions for $f(x)$ that result in $Y$ having a probability density function of $f(x)$?



*The only trivial example I can think of is a Dirac delta. i.e. not a random variable.










share|cite|improve this question















If $X$ follows a Cauchy distribution then $Y = barX = frac1n sum_i=1^n X_i$ also follows exactly the same distribution as $X$; see this thread.



  • Does this property have a name?


  • Are there any other distributions for which this is true?


EDIT



Another way of asking this question:



let $X$ be a random variable with probability density $f(x)$.



let $Y=frac 1 nsum_i=1 ^n X_i$, where $X_i$ denotes the ith observation of $X$.



$Y$ itself can be considered as a random variable, without conditioning on any specific values of $X$.



If $X$ follows a Cauchy distribution, then the probability density function of $Y$ is $f(x)$



Are there any other kinds of (non trivial*) probability density functions for $f(x)$ that result in $Y$ having a probability density function of $f(x)$?



*The only trivial example I can think of is a Dirac delta. i.e. not a random variable.







distributions expected-value central-limit-theorem cauchy






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edited Sep 10 at 14:05

























asked Sep 10 at 9:48









Chechy Levas

420311




420311







  • 1




    This is related to a property of stable distributions. Cauchy is a stable distribution, as is Normal distribution, but the sample mean in Normal population isn't identically distributed as each $X_i$, though it is Normal.
    – StubbornAtom
    Sep 10 at 11:28










  • Your title makes little sense, because the "expected value of a sample" is a number. Do you mean the arithmetic mean of the sample instead? The question is also vague: by "distribution" do you mean a specific distribution or do you mean--as is suggested by the term "Cauchy"--a family of distributions? That's not some minor subtlety: the answer completely changes depending on what you mean. Please edit your post to clarify it.
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 13:39











  • @whuber, I added a second part to the question which hopefully tightens down the range of possible interpretations.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 14:06










  • Thank you; that clears most of it up. However, there are different answers depending on whether you fix $n$ or if you want this result to hold for all $n.$ If it's the latter, the condition on the cf or cgf is severe and leads to a ready solution. If it's the former, then potentially there are additional solutions.
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 14:11










  • I was thinking for all $n$ but if anyone wants to provide an analysis on a fixed $n$ also, that would be welcome.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 14:13












  • 1




    This is related to a property of stable distributions. Cauchy is a stable distribution, as is Normal distribution, but the sample mean in Normal population isn't identically distributed as each $X_i$, though it is Normal.
    – StubbornAtom
    Sep 10 at 11:28










  • Your title makes little sense, because the "expected value of a sample" is a number. Do you mean the arithmetic mean of the sample instead? The question is also vague: by "distribution" do you mean a specific distribution or do you mean--as is suggested by the term "Cauchy"--a family of distributions? That's not some minor subtlety: the answer completely changes depending on what you mean. Please edit your post to clarify it.
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 13:39











  • @whuber, I added a second part to the question which hopefully tightens down the range of possible interpretations.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 14:06










  • Thank you; that clears most of it up. However, there are different answers depending on whether you fix $n$ or if you want this result to hold for all $n.$ If it's the latter, the condition on the cf or cgf is severe and leads to a ready solution. If it's the former, then potentially there are additional solutions.
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 14:11










  • I was thinking for all $n$ but if anyone wants to provide an analysis on a fixed $n$ also, that would be welcome.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 14:13







1




1




This is related to a property of stable distributions. Cauchy is a stable distribution, as is Normal distribution, but the sample mean in Normal population isn't identically distributed as each $X_i$, though it is Normal.
– StubbornAtom
Sep 10 at 11:28




This is related to a property of stable distributions. Cauchy is a stable distribution, as is Normal distribution, but the sample mean in Normal population isn't identically distributed as each $X_i$, though it is Normal.
– StubbornAtom
Sep 10 at 11:28












Your title makes little sense, because the "expected value of a sample" is a number. Do you mean the arithmetic mean of the sample instead? The question is also vague: by "distribution" do you mean a specific distribution or do you mean--as is suggested by the term "Cauchy"--a family of distributions? That's not some minor subtlety: the answer completely changes depending on what you mean. Please edit your post to clarify it.
– whuber♦
Sep 10 at 13:39





Your title makes little sense, because the "expected value of a sample" is a number. Do you mean the arithmetic mean of the sample instead? The question is also vague: by "distribution" do you mean a specific distribution or do you mean--as is suggested by the term "Cauchy"--a family of distributions? That's not some minor subtlety: the answer completely changes depending on what you mean. Please edit your post to clarify it.
– whuber♦
Sep 10 at 13:39













@whuber, I added a second part to the question which hopefully tightens down the range of possible interpretations.
– Chechy Levas
Sep 10 at 14:06




@whuber, I added a second part to the question which hopefully tightens down the range of possible interpretations.
– Chechy Levas
Sep 10 at 14:06












Thank you; that clears most of it up. However, there are different answers depending on whether you fix $n$ or if you want this result to hold for all $n.$ If it's the latter, the condition on the cf or cgf is severe and leads to a ready solution. If it's the former, then potentially there are additional solutions.
– whuber♦
Sep 10 at 14:11




Thank you; that clears most of it up. However, there are different answers depending on whether you fix $n$ or if you want this result to hold for all $n.$ If it's the latter, the condition on the cf or cgf is severe and leads to a ready solution. If it's the former, then potentially there are additional solutions.
– whuber♦
Sep 10 at 14:11












I was thinking for all $n$ but if anyone wants to provide an analysis on a fixed $n$ also, that would be welcome.
– Chechy Levas
Sep 10 at 14:13




I was thinking for all $n$ but if anyone wants to provide an analysis on a fixed $n$ also, that would be welcome.
– Chechy Levas
Sep 10 at 14:13










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
4
down vote



accepted










This is not really an answer, but at least it does not seem to be easy to create such an example from a stable distribution. We would need to produce a r.v. whose characteristic function is the same as that of its average.



In general, for an iid draw, the c.f. of the average is



$$
phi_barX_n(t)=[phi_X(t/n)]^n
$$
with $phi_X$ the c.f. of a single r.v. For stable distributions with location parameter zero, we have
$$
phi_X(t)=exp-,
$$
where
$$
Phi=begincasestanleft(fracpialpha2right)&alphaneq1\-frac2pilog|t|&alpha=1endcases
$$
The Cauchy distribution corresponds to $alpha=1$, $beta=0$, so that $phi_barX_n(t)=phi_X(t)$ indeed for any scale parameter $c>0$.



In general,
$$
phi_barX_n(t)=expleftcfractnright,
$$
To get $phi_barX_n(t)=phi_X(t)$, $alpha=1$ seems called for, so
begineqnarray*
phi_barX_n(t)&=&expleftfractnright\
&=&expleftctright,
endeqnarray*
but
$$
logleft|fractnright|neqlogleft|tright|
$$






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • So is it fair to say that based on your analysis, Cauchy is the only solution for a = 1?
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 12:37






  • 1




    That is my impression from these results, but I am pretty sure that there are people more knowledgeable around here w.r.t. stable distributions.
    – Christoph Hanck
    Sep 10 at 12:46






  • 2




    You don't need to invoke the theory of stable distributions. Letting $psi=log phi$ be the cgf, your equation is $$psi(t/n) = psi(t)/n$$ for $n=1,2,3,ldots.$ Since $psi$ is an even continuous function and zero at the origin, this immediately implies that the germ of $psi$ at the origin is $-|ct|.$
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 14:53











  • Should this be the accepted answer? Besides $alpha = 1$ the only way I can see to solve this is with $alpha = 0$, which (I think) is the Dirac delta.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 11 at 5:22










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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
4
down vote



accepted










This is not really an answer, but at least it does not seem to be easy to create such an example from a stable distribution. We would need to produce a r.v. whose characteristic function is the same as that of its average.



In general, for an iid draw, the c.f. of the average is



$$
phi_barX_n(t)=[phi_X(t/n)]^n
$$
with $phi_X$ the c.f. of a single r.v. For stable distributions with location parameter zero, we have
$$
phi_X(t)=exp-,
$$
where
$$
Phi=begincasestanleft(fracpialpha2right)&alphaneq1\-frac2pilog|t|&alpha=1endcases
$$
The Cauchy distribution corresponds to $alpha=1$, $beta=0$, so that $phi_barX_n(t)=phi_X(t)$ indeed for any scale parameter $c>0$.



In general,
$$
phi_barX_n(t)=expleftcfractnright,
$$
To get $phi_barX_n(t)=phi_X(t)$, $alpha=1$ seems called for, so
begineqnarray*
phi_barX_n(t)&=&expleftfractnright\
&=&expleftctright,
endeqnarray*
but
$$
logleft|fractnright|neqlogleft|tright|
$$






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • So is it fair to say that based on your analysis, Cauchy is the only solution for a = 1?
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 12:37






  • 1




    That is my impression from these results, but I am pretty sure that there are people more knowledgeable around here w.r.t. stable distributions.
    – Christoph Hanck
    Sep 10 at 12:46






  • 2




    You don't need to invoke the theory of stable distributions. Letting $psi=log phi$ be the cgf, your equation is $$psi(t/n) = psi(t)/n$$ for $n=1,2,3,ldots.$ Since $psi$ is an even continuous function and zero at the origin, this immediately implies that the germ of $psi$ at the origin is $-|ct|.$
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 14:53











  • Should this be the accepted answer? Besides $alpha = 1$ the only way I can see to solve this is with $alpha = 0$, which (I think) is the Dirac delta.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 11 at 5:22














up vote
4
down vote



accepted










This is not really an answer, but at least it does not seem to be easy to create such an example from a stable distribution. We would need to produce a r.v. whose characteristic function is the same as that of its average.



In general, for an iid draw, the c.f. of the average is



$$
phi_barX_n(t)=[phi_X(t/n)]^n
$$
with $phi_X$ the c.f. of a single r.v. For stable distributions with location parameter zero, we have
$$
phi_X(t)=exp-,
$$
where
$$
Phi=begincasestanleft(fracpialpha2right)&alphaneq1\-frac2pilog|t|&alpha=1endcases
$$
The Cauchy distribution corresponds to $alpha=1$, $beta=0$, so that $phi_barX_n(t)=phi_X(t)$ indeed for any scale parameter $c>0$.



In general,
$$
phi_barX_n(t)=expleftcfractnright,
$$
To get $phi_barX_n(t)=phi_X(t)$, $alpha=1$ seems called for, so
begineqnarray*
phi_barX_n(t)&=&expleftfractnright\
&=&expleftctright,
endeqnarray*
but
$$
logleft|fractnright|neqlogleft|tright|
$$






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • So is it fair to say that based on your analysis, Cauchy is the only solution for a = 1?
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 12:37






  • 1




    That is my impression from these results, but I am pretty sure that there are people more knowledgeable around here w.r.t. stable distributions.
    – Christoph Hanck
    Sep 10 at 12:46






  • 2




    You don't need to invoke the theory of stable distributions. Letting $psi=log phi$ be the cgf, your equation is $$psi(t/n) = psi(t)/n$$ for $n=1,2,3,ldots.$ Since $psi$ is an even continuous function and zero at the origin, this immediately implies that the germ of $psi$ at the origin is $-|ct|.$
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 14:53











  • Should this be the accepted answer? Besides $alpha = 1$ the only way I can see to solve this is with $alpha = 0$, which (I think) is the Dirac delta.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 11 at 5:22












up vote
4
down vote



accepted







up vote
4
down vote



accepted






This is not really an answer, but at least it does not seem to be easy to create such an example from a stable distribution. We would need to produce a r.v. whose characteristic function is the same as that of its average.



In general, for an iid draw, the c.f. of the average is



$$
phi_barX_n(t)=[phi_X(t/n)]^n
$$
with $phi_X$ the c.f. of a single r.v. For stable distributions with location parameter zero, we have
$$
phi_X(t)=exp-,
$$
where
$$
Phi=begincasestanleft(fracpialpha2right)&alphaneq1\-frac2pilog|t|&alpha=1endcases
$$
The Cauchy distribution corresponds to $alpha=1$, $beta=0$, so that $phi_barX_n(t)=phi_X(t)$ indeed for any scale parameter $c>0$.



In general,
$$
phi_barX_n(t)=expleftcfractnright,
$$
To get $phi_barX_n(t)=phi_X(t)$, $alpha=1$ seems called for, so
begineqnarray*
phi_barX_n(t)&=&expleftfractnright\
&=&expleftctright,
endeqnarray*
but
$$
logleft|fractnright|neqlogleft|tright|
$$






share|cite|improve this answer














This is not really an answer, but at least it does not seem to be easy to create such an example from a stable distribution. We would need to produce a r.v. whose characteristic function is the same as that of its average.



In general, for an iid draw, the c.f. of the average is



$$
phi_barX_n(t)=[phi_X(t/n)]^n
$$
with $phi_X$ the c.f. of a single r.v. For stable distributions with location parameter zero, we have
$$
phi_X(t)=exp-,
$$
where
$$
Phi=begincasestanleft(fracpialpha2right)&alphaneq1\-frac2pilog|t|&alpha=1endcases
$$
The Cauchy distribution corresponds to $alpha=1$, $beta=0$, so that $phi_barX_n(t)=phi_X(t)$ indeed for any scale parameter $c>0$.



In general,
$$
phi_barX_n(t)=expleftcfractnright,
$$
To get $phi_barX_n(t)=phi_X(t)$, $alpha=1$ seems called for, so
begineqnarray*
phi_barX_n(t)&=&expleftfractnright\
&=&expleftctright,
endeqnarray*
but
$$
logleft|fractnright|neqlogleft|tright|
$$







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Sep 10 at 13:51

























answered Sep 10 at 12:08









Christoph Hanck

15.9k33871




15.9k33871











  • So is it fair to say that based on your analysis, Cauchy is the only solution for a = 1?
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 12:37






  • 1




    That is my impression from these results, but I am pretty sure that there are people more knowledgeable around here w.r.t. stable distributions.
    – Christoph Hanck
    Sep 10 at 12:46






  • 2




    You don't need to invoke the theory of stable distributions. Letting $psi=log phi$ be the cgf, your equation is $$psi(t/n) = psi(t)/n$$ for $n=1,2,3,ldots.$ Since $psi$ is an even continuous function and zero at the origin, this immediately implies that the germ of $psi$ at the origin is $-|ct|.$
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 14:53











  • Should this be the accepted answer? Besides $alpha = 1$ the only way I can see to solve this is with $alpha = 0$, which (I think) is the Dirac delta.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 11 at 5:22
















  • So is it fair to say that based on your analysis, Cauchy is the only solution for a = 1?
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 10 at 12:37






  • 1




    That is my impression from these results, but I am pretty sure that there are people more knowledgeable around here w.r.t. stable distributions.
    – Christoph Hanck
    Sep 10 at 12:46






  • 2




    You don't need to invoke the theory of stable distributions. Letting $psi=log phi$ be the cgf, your equation is $$psi(t/n) = psi(t)/n$$ for $n=1,2,3,ldots.$ Since $psi$ is an even continuous function and zero at the origin, this immediately implies that the germ of $psi$ at the origin is $-|ct|.$
    – whuber♦
    Sep 10 at 14:53











  • Should this be the accepted answer? Besides $alpha = 1$ the only way I can see to solve this is with $alpha = 0$, which (I think) is the Dirac delta.
    – Chechy Levas
    Sep 11 at 5:22















So is it fair to say that based on your analysis, Cauchy is the only solution for a = 1?
– Chechy Levas
Sep 10 at 12:37




So is it fair to say that based on your analysis, Cauchy is the only solution for a = 1?
– Chechy Levas
Sep 10 at 12:37




1




1




That is my impression from these results, but I am pretty sure that there are people more knowledgeable around here w.r.t. stable distributions.
– Christoph Hanck
Sep 10 at 12:46




That is my impression from these results, but I am pretty sure that there are people more knowledgeable around here w.r.t. stable distributions.
– Christoph Hanck
Sep 10 at 12:46




2




2




You don't need to invoke the theory of stable distributions. Letting $psi=log phi$ be the cgf, your equation is $$psi(t/n) = psi(t)/n$$ for $n=1,2,3,ldots.$ Since $psi$ is an even continuous function and zero at the origin, this immediately implies that the germ of $psi$ at the origin is $-|ct|.$
– whuber♦
Sep 10 at 14:53





You don't need to invoke the theory of stable distributions. Letting $psi=log phi$ be the cgf, your equation is $$psi(t/n) = psi(t)/n$$ for $n=1,2,3,ldots.$ Since $psi$ is an even continuous function and zero at the origin, this immediately implies that the germ of $psi$ at the origin is $-|ct|.$
– whuber♦
Sep 10 at 14:53













Should this be the accepted answer? Besides $alpha = 1$ the only way I can see to solve this is with $alpha = 0$, which (I think) is the Dirac delta.
– Chechy Levas
Sep 11 at 5:22




Should this be the accepted answer? Besides $alpha = 1$ the only way I can see to solve this is with $alpha = 0$, which (I think) is the Dirac delta.
– Chechy Levas
Sep 11 at 5:22

















 

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Why am i infinitely getting the same tweet with the Twitter Search API?

Is there any way to eliminate the singular point to solve this integral by hand or by approximations?

Strongly p-embedded subgroups and p-Sylow subgroups.