If a nonempty set of real numbers is open and closed, is it $mathbbR$? Why/Why not?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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In other words, are $emptyset$ and $mathbbR$ the only open and closed sets in $mathbbR$? Why/Why not?
I tried by assuming a set is equal to its interior points and contains its limit points.
A bounded set will not do since stuff like $[1,4]$ and $5$ will not work, though that is not really proof. Help please?
Anyway, it must then be unbounded.
If $a$ is a real number then $(a,infty)$, $(-infty,a)$, $[a,infty)$ and $(-infty,a]$ don't seem to cut it so it must be $mathbbR$.
real-analysis general-topology analysis connectedness
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show 7 more comments
up vote
12
down vote
favorite
In other words, are $emptyset$ and $mathbbR$ the only open and closed sets in $mathbbR$? Why/Why not?
I tried by assuming a set is equal to its interior points and contains its limit points.
A bounded set will not do since stuff like $[1,4]$ and $5$ will not work, though that is not really proof. Help please?
Anyway, it must then be unbounded.
If $a$ is a real number then $(a,infty)$, $(-infty,a)$, $[a,infty)$ and $(-infty,a]$ don't seem to cut it so it must be $mathbbR$.
real-analysis general-topology analysis connectedness
2
A closed set contains all of its border. An open set contains none of its border. What do you conclude about the border of a set that is both open and closed?
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:49
3
There was a hint that somehow vanished that suggested to think about connectedness.
â Andrés E. Caicedo
Apr 13 '14 at 14:53
1
The border obviously cannot contain elements outside of $mathbb R$ because we are talking about the topology of $mathbb R$.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:57
2
More exactly, its border is the empty set (the border as set of all border points is always defined, but the clopen set has no border points, and thus the border is empty).
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:13
2
Well, showing that is showing that $mathbb R$ is connected.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:47
 |Â
show 7 more comments
up vote
12
down vote
favorite
up vote
12
down vote
favorite
In other words, are $emptyset$ and $mathbbR$ the only open and closed sets in $mathbbR$? Why/Why not?
I tried by assuming a set is equal to its interior points and contains its limit points.
A bounded set will not do since stuff like $[1,4]$ and $5$ will not work, though that is not really proof. Help please?
Anyway, it must then be unbounded.
If $a$ is a real number then $(a,infty)$, $(-infty,a)$, $[a,infty)$ and $(-infty,a]$ don't seem to cut it so it must be $mathbbR$.
real-analysis general-topology analysis connectedness
In other words, are $emptyset$ and $mathbbR$ the only open and closed sets in $mathbbR$? Why/Why not?
I tried by assuming a set is equal to its interior points and contains its limit points.
A bounded set will not do since stuff like $[1,4]$ and $5$ will not work, though that is not really proof. Help please?
Anyway, it must then be unbounded.
If $a$ is a real number then $(a,infty)$, $(-infty,a)$, $[a,infty)$ and $(-infty,a]$ don't seem to cut it so it must be $mathbbR$.
real-analysis general-topology analysis connectedness
edited Aug 17 at 5:41
asked Apr 13 '14 at 14:47
BCLC
6,61322073
6,61322073
2
A closed set contains all of its border. An open set contains none of its border. What do you conclude about the border of a set that is both open and closed?
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:49
3
There was a hint that somehow vanished that suggested to think about connectedness.
â Andrés E. Caicedo
Apr 13 '14 at 14:53
1
The border obviously cannot contain elements outside of $mathbb R$ because we are talking about the topology of $mathbb R$.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:57
2
More exactly, its border is the empty set (the border as set of all border points is always defined, but the clopen set has no border points, and thus the border is empty).
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:13
2
Well, showing that is showing that $mathbb R$ is connected.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:47
 |Â
show 7 more comments
2
A closed set contains all of its border. An open set contains none of its border. What do you conclude about the border of a set that is both open and closed?
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:49
3
There was a hint that somehow vanished that suggested to think about connectedness.
â Andrés E. Caicedo
Apr 13 '14 at 14:53
1
The border obviously cannot contain elements outside of $mathbb R$ because we are talking about the topology of $mathbb R$.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:57
2
More exactly, its border is the empty set (the border as set of all border points is always defined, but the clopen set has no border points, and thus the border is empty).
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:13
2
Well, showing that is showing that $mathbb R$ is connected.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:47
2
2
A closed set contains all of its border. An open set contains none of its border. What do you conclude about the border of a set that is both open and closed?
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:49
A closed set contains all of its border. An open set contains none of its border. What do you conclude about the border of a set that is both open and closed?
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:49
3
3
There was a hint that somehow vanished that suggested to think about connectedness.
â Andrés E. Caicedo
Apr 13 '14 at 14:53
There was a hint that somehow vanished that suggested to think about connectedness.
â Andrés E. Caicedo
Apr 13 '14 at 14:53
1
1
The border obviously cannot contain elements outside of $mathbb R$ because we are talking about the topology of $mathbb R$.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:57
The border obviously cannot contain elements outside of $mathbb R$ because we are talking about the topology of $mathbb R$.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:57
2
2
More exactly, its border is the empty set (the border as set of all border points is always defined, but the clopen set has no border points, and thus the border is empty).
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:13
More exactly, its border is the empty set (the border as set of all border points is always defined, but the clopen set has no border points, and thus the border is empty).
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:13
2
2
Well, showing that is showing that $mathbb R$ is connected.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:47
Well, showing that is showing that $mathbb R$ is connected.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:47
 |Â
show 7 more comments
6 Answers
6
active
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up vote
17
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accepted
Suppose $X subset mathbbR$ is nonempty, open and closed. Let $x_0 in X$. Finally suppose that $X neq mathbbR$; then there is some $y notin X$; WLOG we can assume that $y > x_0$.
Then the set $Z = x in mathbbR : x > x_0, x notin X $ is bounded below (by $x_0$) and nonempty ($y in Z$). Therefore $inf Z = z$ exists.
Suppose $z in X$. Then since $X$ is open, it contains an open neighborhood $(z - epsilon, z + epsilon)$. This contradicts the definition of $z = inf Z$, because there would be a sequence $z_n > z$, $|z - z_n| < frac1n$, $z_n in Z Rightarrow z_n not in X$. This is not possible, because $[z, z + epsilon) subset X$.
Suppose $z not in X$. Then since $X$ is closed, its complement is open, therefore there is an open neighborhood $(z - epsilon, z + epsilon)$ contained in $mathbbR setminus X$. Then $z - fracepsilon2$ contradicts the $inf$ definition of $z$.
It follows that $X = mathbbR$.
why would $z-fracepsilon2$ immediately yield a contradiction?
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 11:43
@user162089 Because $z - epsilon/2$ is in $mathbbR setminus X$. Furthermore so is all of $[z-epsilon/2, z]$, thus $x_0 not in [z-epsilon/2,z]$. However by definition $z$ is the inf of $mathbbR setminus X cap (x_0,+infty]$, therefore $z le z - epsilon/2$, a contradiction.
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 11:47
How do you obtain $zleq z-epsilon/2$ from $z$ being the infimum of the set $Z$? I can't see why the jump holds.
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 12:01
@user162089 An infimum of a set is a lower bound for the set. $z$ is the infimum of the set $Z = (mathbbR setminus X) cap (x_0,+infty)$. $z - epsilon/2$ belongs to that set. A lower bound is smaller than all the elements of the set. I'm not sure what more you expect me to explain?
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 12:36
add a comment |Â
up vote
10
down vote
You're trying to prove that $mathbbR$ is connected. You can do as follow : if a set $mathbfA$ is both open and closed, then you can check that $mathbb1_mathbfA$ (the characteristic function of $mathbfA$) is continuous, because $mathbb1_mathbfA^-1(O)$ where O is open is either $A$, its complement, the empty set or $R$ depending on $1$ and/or $0$ being in $O$, and all these set are open.
But $mathbb1_mathbfA$ only takes values $1$ or $0$, so it's easy to see that if it's continuous, then it's constant (if it is not, by the Intermediate Value Theorem, then it should also take all values between $0$ and $1$). Hence it's either always $1$ or $0$. And so $mathbfA$ is either $mathbbR$ or the empty set.
Quite an elegant approach !
â Robin
Apr 21 '14 at 18:11
All you have proven is that a space $X$ is connected iff all functions $X to 0,1$ are constant. What you haven't proven (you just said "it's easy") is that all functions $mathbbR to 0,1$ are constant.
â Najib Idrissi
Jul 12 '16 at 9:56
1
No, I claimed that all continuous functions $mathbbR to 0, 1 $ are constant (of course it is false in general, e.g. $mathbb1_mathbbQ$ is not). I just added a short justification, but it's just a trivial application of the (well-known !) Intermediate Value Theorem.
â yago
Jul 13 '16 at 11:10
Nice approach! If $Bbb R$ were disconnected then there would exist a continuous $f:Bbb Rto Bbb R$ that does not have the IVP.
â DanielWainfleet
Aug 17 at 9:24
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Because $mathbb R$ is connected. Asume $U$ is a nonempty proper open and closed subset of $mathbb R$, that is $V:=mathbb Rsetminus U$ is also nonempty and open.
Let $uin U$, $vin V$. Wlog. $u<v$.
Let $a=sup([u,v]cap U)$. As $[u,v]cap U$ is a nonempty bounded closed set, $ain([u,v]cap U)$. Hence $ule a<v$ (as $vnotin U$) and $U$ contains some $epsilon$ neighbourhood of $a$. But then $mina+frac12epsilon, vin Ucap[u,v]$, contradiction to $a$ being the supremum.
add a comment |Â
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3
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Let $S$ be a nonempty subset of $mathbbR$ that is both open and closed. Let's say that $S$ contains the element $s$. We want to show that no element of $mathbbR - S$ can be bigger than or less than $s$, immediately implying that it is empty.
Suppose that there are elements of $mathbbR - S$ bigger than $s$. We can construct the set $X$ of all such elements, and consider its infimum. Use the fact that $S$ is open and closed to derive a contradiction. A similar argument works to show there are no elements of $mathbbR - S$ smaller than $s$.
Note: This argument crucially uses the structure of $mathbbR$ in asserting the existence of infimums and supremums.
Same as what Najib Idrissi did?
â BCLC
Aug 19 '15 at 6:58
add a comment |Â
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1
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A space $X$ is connected if the only subsets of $X$ with empty boundary are $X$ and the empty set. Alternatively, $X$ is connected if the only subsets of $X$ which are both open and closed are $X$ and the empty set. Therefore, your first question asks if there exists any subset of $mathbb R$ that is connected. Indeed, yes, there is. An interval is connected. Your second question seems to ask if $mathbb R$ is connected. Yes, it is. For a proof, see here.
add a comment |Â
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1
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Here's yet another proof, which works by constructing a border point if $A$ is clopen nonempty proper subset of $mathbbR$:
Be $Asubsetmathbb R$ both open and closed, but neither empty nor $mathbb R$. Then there exist points $ain A$ and $binmathbb Rsetminus A$.
Now construct two sequences $(a_n)$ and $(b_n)$ as follows:
$a_0=a$, $b_0=b$. For any $n$, be $c_n=(a_n+b_n)/2$. If $c_nin A$, then $a_n+1=c_n$, $b_n+1=b_n$, else $a_n+1=a_n$, $b_n+1=c_n$.
Quite obviously for all $n$, $a_nin A$ and $b_nnotin A$. Also $lim_ntoinftyleft|a_n-b_nright| = lim_ntoinfty2^-nleft|a-bright| = 0$. Therefore there exists exactly one point $x$ so that $min(a_n,b_n)le xlemax(a_n,b_n)$ for all $n$ (nested intervals).
Since $lim_ntoinftya_n=x$ and $lim_ntoinfty b_n=x$, we have in every open neighbourhood of $x$ both points in $A$ (namely $a_n$ for sufficiently large $n$) and in the complement of $A$ (namely $b_n$ for sufficiently large $n$). Thus $x$ is a border point of $A$, in contradiction that $A$ is both open and closed, and thus cannot have any border points.
add a comment |Â
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
17
down vote
accepted
Suppose $X subset mathbbR$ is nonempty, open and closed. Let $x_0 in X$. Finally suppose that $X neq mathbbR$; then there is some $y notin X$; WLOG we can assume that $y > x_0$.
Then the set $Z = x in mathbbR : x > x_0, x notin X $ is bounded below (by $x_0$) and nonempty ($y in Z$). Therefore $inf Z = z$ exists.
Suppose $z in X$. Then since $X$ is open, it contains an open neighborhood $(z - epsilon, z + epsilon)$. This contradicts the definition of $z = inf Z$, because there would be a sequence $z_n > z$, $|z - z_n| < frac1n$, $z_n in Z Rightarrow z_n not in X$. This is not possible, because $[z, z + epsilon) subset X$.
Suppose $z not in X$. Then since $X$ is closed, its complement is open, therefore there is an open neighborhood $(z - epsilon, z + epsilon)$ contained in $mathbbR setminus X$. Then $z - fracepsilon2$ contradicts the $inf$ definition of $z$.
It follows that $X = mathbbR$.
why would $z-fracepsilon2$ immediately yield a contradiction?
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 11:43
@user162089 Because $z - epsilon/2$ is in $mathbbR setminus X$. Furthermore so is all of $[z-epsilon/2, z]$, thus $x_0 not in [z-epsilon/2,z]$. However by definition $z$ is the inf of $mathbbR setminus X cap (x_0,+infty]$, therefore $z le z - epsilon/2$, a contradiction.
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 11:47
How do you obtain $zleq z-epsilon/2$ from $z$ being the infimum of the set $Z$? I can't see why the jump holds.
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 12:01
@user162089 An infimum of a set is a lower bound for the set. $z$ is the infimum of the set $Z = (mathbbR setminus X) cap (x_0,+infty)$. $z - epsilon/2$ belongs to that set. A lower bound is smaller than all the elements of the set. I'm not sure what more you expect me to explain?
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 12:36
add a comment |Â
up vote
17
down vote
accepted
Suppose $X subset mathbbR$ is nonempty, open and closed. Let $x_0 in X$. Finally suppose that $X neq mathbbR$; then there is some $y notin X$; WLOG we can assume that $y > x_0$.
Then the set $Z = x in mathbbR : x > x_0, x notin X $ is bounded below (by $x_0$) and nonempty ($y in Z$). Therefore $inf Z = z$ exists.
Suppose $z in X$. Then since $X$ is open, it contains an open neighborhood $(z - epsilon, z + epsilon)$. This contradicts the definition of $z = inf Z$, because there would be a sequence $z_n > z$, $|z - z_n| < frac1n$, $z_n in Z Rightarrow z_n not in X$. This is not possible, because $[z, z + epsilon) subset X$.
Suppose $z not in X$. Then since $X$ is closed, its complement is open, therefore there is an open neighborhood $(z - epsilon, z + epsilon)$ contained in $mathbbR setminus X$. Then $z - fracepsilon2$ contradicts the $inf$ definition of $z$.
It follows that $X = mathbbR$.
why would $z-fracepsilon2$ immediately yield a contradiction?
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 11:43
@user162089 Because $z - epsilon/2$ is in $mathbbR setminus X$. Furthermore so is all of $[z-epsilon/2, z]$, thus $x_0 not in [z-epsilon/2,z]$. However by definition $z$ is the inf of $mathbbR setminus X cap (x_0,+infty]$, therefore $z le z - epsilon/2$, a contradiction.
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 11:47
How do you obtain $zleq z-epsilon/2$ from $z$ being the infimum of the set $Z$? I can't see why the jump holds.
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 12:01
@user162089 An infimum of a set is a lower bound for the set. $z$ is the infimum of the set $Z = (mathbbR setminus X) cap (x_0,+infty)$. $z - epsilon/2$ belongs to that set. A lower bound is smaller than all the elements of the set. I'm not sure what more you expect me to explain?
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 12:36
add a comment |Â
up vote
17
down vote
accepted
up vote
17
down vote
accepted
Suppose $X subset mathbbR$ is nonempty, open and closed. Let $x_0 in X$. Finally suppose that $X neq mathbbR$; then there is some $y notin X$; WLOG we can assume that $y > x_0$.
Then the set $Z = x in mathbbR : x > x_0, x notin X $ is bounded below (by $x_0$) and nonempty ($y in Z$). Therefore $inf Z = z$ exists.
Suppose $z in X$. Then since $X$ is open, it contains an open neighborhood $(z - epsilon, z + epsilon)$. This contradicts the definition of $z = inf Z$, because there would be a sequence $z_n > z$, $|z - z_n| < frac1n$, $z_n in Z Rightarrow z_n not in X$. This is not possible, because $[z, z + epsilon) subset X$.
Suppose $z not in X$. Then since $X$ is closed, its complement is open, therefore there is an open neighborhood $(z - epsilon, z + epsilon)$ contained in $mathbbR setminus X$. Then $z - fracepsilon2$ contradicts the $inf$ definition of $z$.
It follows that $X = mathbbR$.
Suppose $X subset mathbbR$ is nonempty, open and closed. Let $x_0 in X$. Finally suppose that $X neq mathbbR$; then there is some $y notin X$; WLOG we can assume that $y > x_0$.
Then the set $Z = x in mathbbR : x > x_0, x notin X $ is bounded below (by $x_0$) and nonempty ($y in Z$). Therefore $inf Z = z$ exists.
Suppose $z in X$. Then since $X$ is open, it contains an open neighborhood $(z - epsilon, z + epsilon)$. This contradicts the definition of $z = inf Z$, because there would be a sequence $z_n > z$, $|z - z_n| < frac1n$, $z_n in Z Rightarrow z_n not in X$. This is not possible, because $[z, z + epsilon) subset X$.
Suppose $z not in X$. Then since $X$ is closed, its complement is open, therefore there is an open neighborhood $(z - epsilon, z + epsilon)$ contained in $mathbbR setminus X$. Then $z - fracepsilon2$ contradicts the $inf$ definition of $z$.
It follows that $X = mathbbR$.
answered Apr 13 '14 at 14:57
Najib Idrissi
39.3k469135
39.3k469135
why would $z-fracepsilon2$ immediately yield a contradiction?
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 11:43
@user162089 Because $z - epsilon/2$ is in $mathbbR setminus X$. Furthermore so is all of $[z-epsilon/2, z]$, thus $x_0 not in [z-epsilon/2,z]$. However by definition $z$ is the inf of $mathbbR setminus X cap (x_0,+infty]$, therefore $z le z - epsilon/2$, a contradiction.
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 11:47
How do you obtain $zleq z-epsilon/2$ from $z$ being the infimum of the set $Z$? I can't see why the jump holds.
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 12:01
@user162089 An infimum of a set is a lower bound for the set. $z$ is the infimum of the set $Z = (mathbbR setminus X) cap (x_0,+infty)$. $z - epsilon/2$ belongs to that set. A lower bound is smaller than all the elements of the set. I'm not sure what more you expect me to explain?
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 12:36
add a comment |Â
why would $z-fracepsilon2$ immediately yield a contradiction?
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 11:43
@user162089 Because $z - epsilon/2$ is in $mathbbR setminus X$. Furthermore so is all of $[z-epsilon/2, z]$, thus $x_0 not in [z-epsilon/2,z]$. However by definition $z$ is the inf of $mathbbR setminus X cap (x_0,+infty]$, therefore $z le z - epsilon/2$, a contradiction.
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 11:47
How do you obtain $zleq z-epsilon/2$ from $z$ being the infimum of the set $Z$? I can't see why the jump holds.
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 12:01
@user162089 An infimum of a set is a lower bound for the set. $z$ is the infimum of the set $Z = (mathbbR setminus X) cap (x_0,+infty)$. $z - epsilon/2$ belongs to that set. A lower bound is smaller than all the elements of the set. I'm not sure what more you expect me to explain?
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 12:36
why would $z-fracepsilon2$ immediately yield a contradiction?
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 11:43
why would $z-fracepsilon2$ immediately yield a contradiction?
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 11:43
@user162089 Because $z - epsilon/2$ is in $mathbbR setminus X$. Furthermore so is all of $[z-epsilon/2, z]$, thus $x_0 not in [z-epsilon/2,z]$. However by definition $z$ is the inf of $mathbbR setminus X cap (x_0,+infty]$, therefore $z le z - epsilon/2$, a contradiction.
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 11:47
@user162089 Because $z - epsilon/2$ is in $mathbbR setminus X$. Furthermore so is all of $[z-epsilon/2, z]$, thus $x_0 not in [z-epsilon/2,z]$. However by definition $z$ is the inf of $mathbbR setminus X cap (x_0,+infty]$, therefore $z le z - epsilon/2$, a contradiction.
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 11:47
How do you obtain $zleq z-epsilon/2$ from $z$ being the infimum of the set $Z$? I can't see why the jump holds.
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 12:01
How do you obtain $zleq z-epsilon/2$ from $z$ being the infimum of the set $Z$? I can't see why the jump holds.
â user162089
Jun 7 '17 at 12:01
@user162089 An infimum of a set is a lower bound for the set. $z$ is the infimum of the set $Z = (mathbbR setminus X) cap (x_0,+infty)$. $z - epsilon/2$ belongs to that set. A lower bound is smaller than all the elements of the set. I'm not sure what more you expect me to explain?
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 12:36
@user162089 An infimum of a set is a lower bound for the set. $z$ is the infimum of the set $Z = (mathbbR setminus X) cap (x_0,+infty)$. $z - epsilon/2$ belongs to that set. A lower bound is smaller than all the elements of the set. I'm not sure what more you expect me to explain?
â Najib Idrissi
Jun 7 '17 at 12:36
add a comment |Â
up vote
10
down vote
You're trying to prove that $mathbbR$ is connected. You can do as follow : if a set $mathbfA$ is both open and closed, then you can check that $mathbb1_mathbfA$ (the characteristic function of $mathbfA$) is continuous, because $mathbb1_mathbfA^-1(O)$ where O is open is either $A$, its complement, the empty set or $R$ depending on $1$ and/or $0$ being in $O$, and all these set are open.
But $mathbb1_mathbfA$ only takes values $1$ or $0$, so it's easy to see that if it's continuous, then it's constant (if it is not, by the Intermediate Value Theorem, then it should also take all values between $0$ and $1$). Hence it's either always $1$ or $0$. And so $mathbfA$ is either $mathbbR$ or the empty set.
Quite an elegant approach !
â Robin
Apr 21 '14 at 18:11
All you have proven is that a space $X$ is connected iff all functions $X to 0,1$ are constant. What you haven't proven (you just said "it's easy") is that all functions $mathbbR to 0,1$ are constant.
â Najib Idrissi
Jul 12 '16 at 9:56
1
No, I claimed that all continuous functions $mathbbR to 0, 1 $ are constant (of course it is false in general, e.g. $mathbb1_mathbbQ$ is not). I just added a short justification, but it's just a trivial application of the (well-known !) Intermediate Value Theorem.
â yago
Jul 13 '16 at 11:10
Nice approach! If $Bbb R$ were disconnected then there would exist a continuous $f:Bbb Rto Bbb R$ that does not have the IVP.
â DanielWainfleet
Aug 17 at 9:24
add a comment |Â
up vote
10
down vote
You're trying to prove that $mathbbR$ is connected. You can do as follow : if a set $mathbfA$ is both open and closed, then you can check that $mathbb1_mathbfA$ (the characteristic function of $mathbfA$) is continuous, because $mathbb1_mathbfA^-1(O)$ where O is open is either $A$, its complement, the empty set or $R$ depending on $1$ and/or $0$ being in $O$, and all these set are open.
But $mathbb1_mathbfA$ only takes values $1$ or $0$, so it's easy to see that if it's continuous, then it's constant (if it is not, by the Intermediate Value Theorem, then it should also take all values between $0$ and $1$). Hence it's either always $1$ or $0$. And so $mathbfA$ is either $mathbbR$ or the empty set.
Quite an elegant approach !
â Robin
Apr 21 '14 at 18:11
All you have proven is that a space $X$ is connected iff all functions $X to 0,1$ are constant. What you haven't proven (you just said "it's easy") is that all functions $mathbbR to 0,1$ are constant.
â Najib Idrissi
Jul 12 '16 at 9:56
1
No, I claimed that all continuous functions $mathbbR to 0, 1 $ are constant (of course it is false in general, e.g. $mathbb1_mathbbQ$ is not). I just added a short justification, but it's just a trivial application of the (well-known !) Intermediate Value Theorem.
â yago
Jul 13 '16 at 11:10
Nice approach! If $Bbb R$ were disconnected then there would exist a continuous $f:Bbb Rto Bbb R$ that does not have the IVP.
â DanielWainfleet
Aug 17 at 9:24
add a comment |Â
up vote
10
down vote
up vote
10
down vote
You're trying to prove that $mathbbR$ is connected. You can do as follow : if a set $mathbfA$ is both open and closed, then you can check that $mathbb1_mathbfA$ (the characteristic function of $mathbfA$) is continuous, because $mathbb1_mathbfA^-1(O)$ where O is open is either $A$, its complement, the empty set or $R$ depending on $1$ and/or $0$ being in $O$, and all these set are open.
But $mathbb1_mathbfA$ only takes values $1$ or $0$, so it's easy to see that if it's continuous, then it's constant (if it is not, by the Intermediate Value Theorem, then it should also take all values between $0$ and $1$). Hence it's either always $1$ or $0$. And so $mathbfA$ is either $mathbbR$ or the empty set.
You're trying to prove that $mathbbR$ is connected. You can do as follow : if a set $mathbfA$ is both open and closed, then you can check that $mathbb1_mathbfA$ (the characteristic function of $mathbfA$) is continuous, because $mathbb1_mathbfA^-1(O)$ where O is open is either $A$, its complement, the empty set or $R$ depending on $1$ and/or $0$ being in $O$, and all these set are open.
But $mathbb1_mathbfA$ only takes values $1$ or $0$, so it's easy to see that if it's continuous, then it's constant (if it is not, by the Intermediate Value Theorem, then it should also take all values between $0$ and $1$). Hence it's either always $1$ or $0$. And so $mathbfA$ is either $mathbbR$ or the empty set.
edited Jul 13 '16 at 10:57
answered Apr 13 '14 at 14:57
yago
1,730510
1,730510
Quite an elegant approach !
â Robin
Apr 21 '14 at 18:11
All you have proven is that a space $X$ is connected iff all functions $X to 0,1$ are constant. What you haven't proven (you just said "it's easy") is that all functions $mathbbR to 0,1$ are constant.
â Najib Idrissi
Jul 12 '16 at 9:56
1
No, I claimed that all continuous functions $mathbbR to 0, 1 $ are constant (of course it is false in general, e.g. $mathbb1_mathbbQ$ is not). I just added a short justification, but it's just a trivial application of the (well-known !) Intermediate Value Theorem.
â yago
Jul 13 '16 at 11:10
Nice approach! If $Bbb R$ were disconnected then there would exist a continuous $f:Bbb Rto Bbb R$ that does not have the IVP.
â DanielWainfleet
Aug 17 at 9:24
add a comment |Â
Quite an elegant approach !
â Robin
Apr 21 '14 at 18:11
All you have proven is that a space $X$ is connected iff all functions $X to 0,1$ are constant. What you haven't proven (you just said "it's easy") is that all functions $mathbbR to 0,1$ are constant.
â Najib Idrissi
Jul 12 '16 at 9:56
1
No, I claimed that all continuous functions $mathbbR to 0, 1 $ are constant (of course it is false in general, e.g. $mathbb1_mathbbQ$ is not). I just added a short justification, but it's just a trivial application of the (well-known !) Intermediate Value Theorem.
â yago
Jul 13 '16 at 11:10
Nice approach! If $Bbb R$ were disconnected then there would exist a continuous $f:Bbb Rto Bbb R$ that does not have the IVP.
â DanielWainfleet
Aug 17 at 9:24
Quite an elegant approach !
â Robin
Apr 21 '14 at 18:11
Quite an elegant approach !
â Robin
Apr 21 '14 at 18:11
All you have proven is that a space $X$ is connected iff all functions $X to 0,1$ are constant. What you haven't proven (you just said "it's easy") is that all functions $mathbbR to 0,1$ are constant.
â Najib Idrissi
Jul 12 '16 at 9:56
All you have proven is that a space $X$ is connected iff all functions $X to 0,1$ are constant. What you haven't proven (you just said "it's easy") is that all functions $mathbbR to 0,1$ are constant.
â Najib Idrissi
Jul 12 '16 at 9:56
1
1
No, I claimed that all continuous functions $mathbbR to 0, 1 $ are constant (of course it is false in general, e.g. $mathbb1_mathbbQ$ is not). I just added a short justification, but it's just a trivial application of the (well-known !) Intermediate Value Theorem.
â yago
Jul 13 '16 at 11:10
No, I claimed that all continuous functions $mathbbR to 0, 1 $ are constant (of course it is false in general, e.g. $mathbb1_mathbbQ$ is not). I just added a short justification, but it's just a trivial application of the (well-known !) Intermediate Value Theorem.
â yago
Jul 13 '16 at 11:10
Nice approach! If $Bbb R$ were disconnected then there would exist a continuous $f:Bbb Rto Bbb R$ that does not have the IVP.
â DanielWainfleet
Aug 17 at 9:24
Nice approach! If $Bbb R$ were disconnected then there would exist a continuous $f:Bbb Rto Bbb R$ that does not have the IVP.
â DanielWainfleet
Aug 17 at 9:24
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Because $mathbb R$ is connected. Asume $U$ is a nonempty proper open and closed subset of $mathbb R$, that is $V:=mathbb Rsetminus U$ is also nonempty and open.
Let $uin U$, $vin V$. Wlog. $u<v$.
Let $a=sup([u,v]cap U)$. As $[u,v]cap U$ is a nonempty bounded closed set, $ain([u,v]cap U)$. Hence $ule a<v$ (as $vnotin U$) and $U$ contains some $epsilon$ neighbourhood of $a$. But then $mina+frac12epsilon, vin Ucap[u,v]$, contradiction to $a$ being the supremum.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Because $mathbb R$ is connected. Asume $U$ is a nonempty proper open and closed subset of $mathbb R$, that is $V:=mathbb Rsetminus U$ is also nonempty and open.
Let $uin U$, $vin V$. Wlog. $u<v$.
Let $a=sup([u,v]cap U)$. As $[u,v]cap U$ is a nonempty bounded closed set, $ain([u,v]cap U)$. Hence $ule a<v$ (as $vnotin U$) and $U$ contains some $epsilon$ neighbourhood of $a$. But then $mina+frac12epsilon, vin Ucap[u,v]$, contradiction to $a$ being the supremum.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Because $mathbb R$ is connected. Asume $U$ is a nonempty proper open and closed subset of $mathbb R$, that is $V:=mathbb Rsetminus U$ is also nonempty and open.
Let $uin U$, $vin V$. Wlog. $u<v$.
Let $a=sup([u,v]cap U)$. As $[u,v]cap U$ is a nonempty bounded closed set, $ain([u,v]cap U)$. Hence $ule a<v$ (as $vnotin U$) and $U$ contains some $epsilon$ neighbourhood of $a$. But then $mina+frac12epsilon, vin Ucap[u,v]$, contradiction to $a$ being the supremum.
Because $mathbb R$ is connected. Asume $U$ is a nonempty proper open and closed subset of $mathbb R$, that is $V:=mathbb Rsetminus U$ is also nonempty and open.
Let $uin U$, $vin V$. Wlog. $u<v$.
Let $a=sup([u,v]cap U)$. As $[u,v]cap U$ is a nonempty bounded closed set, $ain([u,v]cap U)$. Hence $ule a<v$ (as $vnotin U$) and $U$ contains some $epsilon$ neighbourhood of $a$. But then $mina+frac12epsilon, vin Ucap[u,v]$, contradiction to $a$ being the supremum.
answered Apr 13 '14 at 14:57
Hagen von Eitzen
266k21258477
266k21258477
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Let $S$ be a nonempty subset of $mathbbR$ that is both open and closed. Let's say that $S$ contains the element $s$. We want to show that no element of $mathbbR - S$ can be bigger than or less than $s$, immediately implying that it is empty.
Suppose that there are elements of $mathbbR - S$ bigger than $s$. We can construct the set $X$ of all such elements, and consider its infimum. Use the fact that $S$ is open and closed to derive a contradiction. A similar argument works to show there are no elements of $mathbbR - S$ smaller than $s$.
Note: This argument crucially uses the structure of $mathbbR$ in asserting the existence of infimums and supremums.
Same as what Najib Idrissi did?
â BCLC
Aug 19 '15 at 6:58
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Let $S$ be a nonempty subset of $mathbbR$ that is both open and closed. Let's say that $S$ contains the element $s$. We want to show that no element of $mathbbR - S$ can be bigger than or less than $s$, immediately implying that it is empty.
Suppose that there are elements of $mathbbR - S$ bigger than $s$. We can construct the set $X$ of all such elements, and consider its infimum. Use the fact that $S$ is open and closed to derive a contradiction. A similar argument works to show there are no elements of $mathbbR - S$ smaller than $s$.
Note: This argument crucially uses the structure of $mathbbR$ in asserting the existence of infimums and supremums.
Same as what Najib Idrissi did?
â BCLC
Aug 19 '15 at 6:58
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Let $S$ be a nonempty subset of $mathbbR$ that is both open and closed. Let's say that $S$ contains the element $s$. We want to show that no element of $mathbbR - S$ can be bigger than or less than $s$, immediately implying that it is empty.
Suppose that there are elements of $mathbbR - S$ bigger than $s$. We can construct the set $X$ of all such elements, and consider its infimum. Use the fact that $S$ is open and closed to derive a contradiction. A similar argument works to show there are no elements of $mathbbR - S$ smaller than $s$.
Note: This argument crucially uses the structure of $mathbbR$ in asserting the existence of infimums and supremums.
Let $S$ be a nonempty subset of $mathbbR$ that is both open and closed. Let's say that $S$ contains the element $s$. We want to show that no element of $mathbbR - S$ can be bigger than or less than $s$, immediately implying that it is empty.
Suppose that there are elements of $mathbbR - S$ bigger than $s$. We can construct the set $X$ of all such elements, and consider its infimum. Use the fact that $S$ is open and closed to derive a contradiction. A similar argument works to show there are no elements of $mathbbR - S$ smaller than $s$.
Note: This argument crucially uses the structure of $mathbbR$ in asserting the existence of infimums and supremums.
answered Apr 13 '14 at 14:57
Elchanan Solomon
21.3k44174
21.3k44174
Same as what Najib Idrissi did?
â BCLC
Aug 19 '15 at 6:58
add a comment |Â
Same as what Najib Idrissi did?
â BCLC
Aug 19 '15 at 6:58
Same as what Najib Idrissi did?
â BCLC
Aug 19 '15 at 6:58
Same as what Najib Idrissi did?
â BCLC
Aug 19 '15 at 6:58
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
A space $X$ is connected if the only subsets of $X$ with empty boundary are $X$ and the empty set. Alternatively, $X$ is connected if the only subsets of $X$ which are both open and closed are $X$ and the empty set. Therefore, your first question asks if there exists any subset of $mathbb R$ that is connected. Indeed, yes, there is. An interval is connected. Your second question seems to ask if $mathbb R$ is connected. Yes, it is. For a proof, see here.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
A space $X$ is connected if the only subsets of $X$ with empty boundary are $X$ and the empty set. Alternatively, $X$ is connected if the only subsets of $X$ which are both open and closed are $X$ and the empty set. Therefore, your first question asks if there exists any subset of $mathbb R$ that is connected. Indeed, yes, there is. An interval is connected. Your second question seems to ask if $mathbb R$ is connected. Yes, it is. For a proof, see here.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
A space $X$ is connected if the only subsets of $X$ with empty boundary are $X$ and the empty set. Alternatively, $X$ is connected if the only subsets of $X$ which are both open and closed are $X$ and the empty set. Therefore, your first question asks if there exists any subset of $mathbb R$ that is connected. Indeed, yes, there is. An interval is connected. Your second question seems to ask if $mathbb R$ is connected. Yes, it is. For a proof, see here.
A space $X$ is connected if the only subsets of $X$ with empty boundary are $X$ and the empty set. Alternatively, $X$ is connected if the only subsets of $X$ which are both open and closed are $X$ and the empty set. Therefore, your first question asks if there exists any subset of $mathbb R$ that is connected. Indeed, yes, there is. An interval is connected. Your second question seems to ask if $mathbb R$ is connected. Yes, it is. For a proof, see here.
answered Apr 13 '14 at 14:57
user122283
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Here's yet another proof, which works by constructing a border point if $A$ is clopen nonempty proper subset of $mathbbR$:
Be $Asubsetmathbb R$ both open and closed, but neither empty nor $mathbb R$. Then there exist points $ain A$ and $binmathbb Rsetminus A$.
Now construct two sequences $(a_n)$ and $(b_n)$ as follows:
$a_0=a$, $b_0=b$. For any $n$, be $c_n=(a_n+b_n)/2$. If $c_nin A$, then $a_n+1=c_n$, $b_n+1=b_n$, else $a_n+1=a_n$, $b_n+1=c_n$.
Quite obviously for all $n$, $a_nin A$ and $b_nnotin A$. Also $lim_ntoinftyleft|a_n-b_nright| = lim_ntoinfty2^-nleft|a-bright| = 0$. Therefore there exists exactly one point $x$ so that $min(a_n,b_n)le xlemax(a_n,b_n)$ for all $n$ (nested intervals).
Since $lim_ntoinftya_n=x$ and $lim_ntoinfty b_n=x$, we have in every open neighbourhood of $x$ both points in $A$ (namely $a_n$ for sufficiently large $n$) and in the complement of $A$ (namely $b_n$ for sufficiently large $n$). Thus $x$ is a border point of $A$, in contradiction that $A$ is both open and closed, and thus cannot have any border points.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Here's yet another proof, which works by constructing a border point if $A$ is clopen nonempty proper subset of $mathbbR$:
Be $Asubsetmathbb R$ both open and closed, but neither empty nor $mathbb R$. Then there exist points $ain A$ and $binmathbb Rsetminus A$.
Now construct two sequences $(a_n)$ and $(b_n)$ as follows:
$a_0=a$, $b_0=b$. For any $n$, be $c_n=(a_n+b_n)/2$. If $c_nin A$, then $a_n+1=c_n$, $b_n+1=b_n$, else $a_n+1=a_n$, $b_n+1=c_n$.
Quite obviously for all $n$, $a_nin A$ and $b_nnotin A$. Also $lim_ntoinftyleft|a_n-b_nright| = lim_ntoinfty2^-nleft|a-bright| = 0$. Therefore there exists exactly one point $x$ so that $min(a_n,b_n)le xlemax(a_n,b_n)$ for all $n$ (nested intervals).
Since $lim_ntoinftya_n=x$ and $lim_ntoinfty b_n=x$, we have in every open neighbourhood of $x$ both points in $A$ (namely $a_n$ for sufficiently large $n$) and in the complement of $A$ (namely $b_n$ for sufficiently large $n$). Thus $x$ is a border point of $A$, in contradiction that $A$ is both open and closed, and thus cannot have any border points.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Here's yet another proof, which works by constructing a border point if $A$ is clopen nonempty proper subset of $mathbbR$:
Be $Asubsetmathbb R$ both open and closed, but neither empty nor $mathbb R$. Then there exist points $ain A$ and $binmathbb Rsetminus A$.
Now construct two sequences $(a_n)$ and $(b_n)$ as follows:
$a_0=a$, $b_0=b$. For any $n$, be $c_n=(a_n+b_n)/2$. If $c_nin A$, then $a_n+1=c_n$, $b_n+1=b_n$, else $a_n+1=a_n$, $b_n+1=c_n$.
Quite obviously for all $n$, $a_nin A$ and $b_nnotin A$. Also $lim_ntoinftyleft|a_n-b_nright| = lim_ntoinfty2^-nleft|a-bright| = 0$. Therefore there exists exactly one point $x$ so that $min(a_n,b_n)le xlemax(a_n,b_n)$ for all $n$ (nested intervals).
Since $lim_ntoinftya_n=x$ and $lim_ntoinfty b_n=x$, we have in every open neighbourhood of $x$ both points in $A$ (namely $a_n$ for sufficiently large $n$) and in the complement of $A$ (namely $b_n$ for sufficiently large $n$). Thus $x$ is a border point of $A$, in contradiction that $A$ is both open and closed, and thus cannot have any border points.
Here's yet another proof, which works by constructing a border point if $A$ is clopen nonempty proper subset of $mathbbR$:
Be $Asubsetmathbb R$ both open and closed, but neither empty nor $mathbb R$. Then there exist points $ain A$ and $binmathbb Rsetminus A$.
Now construct two sequences $(a_n)$ and $(b_n)$ as follows:
$a_0=a$, $b_0=b$. For any $n$, be $c_n=(a_n+b_n)/2$. If $c_nin A$, then $a_n+1=c_n$, $b_n+1=b_n$, else $a_n+1=a_n$, $b_n+1=c_n$.
Quite obviously for all $n$, $a_nin A$ and $b_nnotin A$. Also $lim_ntoinftyleft|a_n-b_nright| = lim_ntoinfty2^-nleft|a-bright| = 0$. Therefore there exists exactly one point $x$ so that $min(a_n,b_n)le xlemax(a_n,b_n)$ for all $n$ (nested intervals).
Since $lim_ntoinftya_n=x$ and $lim_ntoinfty b_n=x$, we have in every open neighbourhood of $x$ both points in $A$ (namely $a_n$ for sufficiently large $n$) and in the complement of $A$ (namely $b_n$ for sufficiently large $n$). Thus $x$ is a border point of $A$, in contradiction that $A$ is both open and closed, and thus cannot have any border points.
edited Apr 13 '14 at 16:31
answered Apr 13 '14 at 16:09
celtschk
28.2k75495
28.2k75495
add a comment |Â
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2
A closed set contains all of its border. An open set contains none of its border. What do you conclude about the border of a set that is both open and closed?
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:49
3
There was a hint that somehow vanished that suggested to think about connectedness.
â Andrés E. Caicedo
Apr 13 '14 at 14:53
1
The border obviously cannot contain elements outside of $mathbb R$ because we are talking about the topology of $mathbb R$.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 14:57
2
More exactly, its border is the empty set (the border as set of all border points is always defined, but the clopen set has no border points, and thus the border is empty).
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:13
2
Well, showing that is showing that $mathbb R$ is connected.
â celtschk
Apr 13 '14 at 15:47