Minimum area of region bounded by a thread

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Suppose you have a thread of length $l$ and 4 thumbtacks located at $(1, 0), (0,1), (-1, 0), (0, -1)$. You have to make closed region with the thread so that all the 4 thumbtacks lie inside the region such that the area bounded by the thread is minimum. I'd like the area in terms of $l$. How would you go about this problem?



If $l ge 8$, then area is $0$. And assume that $lge 4 sqrt2$







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  • Use ge to get $ge$ and le to get $le$
    – Mohammad Zuhair Khan
    Aug 26 at 11:00










  • Calculus of variation is the rigorous way to solve this problem.
    – Szeto
    Aug 26 at 12:12














up vote
0
down vote

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Suppose you have a thread of length $l$ and 4 thumbtacks located at $(1, 0), (0,1), (-1, 0), (0, -1)$. You have to make closed region with the thread so that all the 4 thumbtacks lie inside the region such that the area bounded by the thread is minimum. I'd like the area in terms of $l$. How would you go about this problem?



If $l ge 8$, then area is $0$. And assume that $lge 4 sqrt2$







share|cite|improve this question






















  • Use ge to get $ge$ and le to get $le$
    – Mohammad Zuhair Khan
    Aug 26 at 11:00










  • Calculus of variation is the rigorous way to solve this problem.
    – Szeto
    Aug 26 at 12:12












up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











Suppose you have a thread of length $l$ and 4 thumbtacks located at $(1, 0), (0,1), (-1, 0), (0, -1)$. You have to make closed region with the thread so that all the 4 thumbtacks lie inside the region such that the area bounded by the thread is minimum. I'd like the area in terms of $l$. How would you go about this problem?



If $l ge 8$, then area is $0$. And assume that $lge 4 sqrt2$







share|cite|improve this question














Suppose you have a thread of length $l$ and 4 thumbtacks located at $(1, 0), (0,1), (-1, 0), (0, -1)$. You have to make closed region with the thread so that all the 4 thumbtacks lie inside the region such that the area bounded by the thread is minimum. I'd like the area in terms of $l$. How would you go about this problem?



If $l ge 8$, then area is $0$. And assume that $lge 4 sqrt2$









share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Aug 26 at 11:01

























asked Aug 26 at 10:47









B2VSi

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403215











  • Use ge to get $ge$ and le to get $le$
    – Mohammad Zuhair Khan
    Aug 26 at 11:00










  • Calculus of variation is the rigorous way to solve this problem.
    – Szeto
    Aug 26 at 12:12
















  • Use ge to get $ge$ and le to get $le$
    – Mohammad Zuhair Khan
    Aug 26 at 11:00










  • Calculus of variation is the rigorous way to solve this problem.
    – Szeto
    Aug 26 at 12:12















Use ge to get $ge$ and le to get $le$
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Aug 26 at 11:00




Use ge to get $ge$ and le to get $le$
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Aug 26 at 11:00












Calculus of variation is the rigorous way to solve this problem.
– Szeto
Aug 26 at 12:12




Calculus of variation is the rigorous way to solve this problem.
– Szeto
Aug 26 at 12:12










1 Answer
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0
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We can simplify the problem using its symmetry, i.e., only consider the potion of the curve between $(0,1)$ and $(1,0)$.



Let $f$ be a continuous function defined from $[0,1]to[0,1]$ such that



  1. $$int_0^1 sqrt1+(f'(x))^2textrmdx = frac l4$$

  2. $$int_0^1 f(x) textrm dx = minimum$$

The first formula is obviously the standard length of a curve formula, and the second the area under the curve (which you will need to multiply by 4).



Unfortunately, the first formula is not really helpful. So we have to make some more clever observations.



By another symmetry argument, I argue that $f(x)$ reflected over the line $y=x$ will not change $f(x)$. Why should that be? Well, if the part of the function that reaches the line $y=x$ from $(1,0)$ is optimal, then the same sort of function should be used but reflected from $(0,1)$ to $y=x$.



The final clever observation to make is the following: the quarter circle is the optimal function to maximize area under the curve of a given length, so flipping that would minimize it.



While this is not a rigorous proof (Rigorous proofs do exist online), this should give you an intuitive understanding as to why curves of the form $$x^r+y^r=1$$ will be the correct function to minimize area.



You can now solve equation 1, but with $f(x) = bigg(1-x^rbigg)^frac1r$ to find the correct $r$, and then use equation two to find the area under the curve






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    1 Answer
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    active

    oldest

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    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    0
    down vote













    We can simplify the problem using its symmetry, i.e., only consider the potion of the curve between $(0,1)$ and $(1,0)$.



    Let $f$ be a continuous function defined from $[0,1]to[0,1]$ such that



    1. $$int_0^1 sqrt1+(f'(x))^2textrmdx = frac l4$$

    2. $$int_0^1 f(x) textrm dx = minimum$$

    The first formula is obviously the standard length of a curve formula, and the second the area under the curve (which you will need to multiply by 4).



    Unfortunately, the first formula is not really helpful. So we have to make some more clever observations.



    By another symmetry argument, I argue that $f(x)$ reflected over the line $y=x$ will not change $f(x)$. Why should that be? Well, if the part of the function that reaches the line $y=x$ from $(1,0)$ is optimal, then the same sort of function should be used but reflected from $(0,1)$ to $y=x$.



    The final clever observation to make is the following: the quarter circle is the optimal function to maximize area under the curve of a given length, so flipping that would minimize it.



    While this is not a rigorous proof (Rigorous proofs do exist online), this should give you an intuitive understanding as to why curves of the form $$x^r+y^r=1$$ will be the correct function to minimize area.



    You can now solve equation 1, but with $f(x) = bigg(1-x^rbigg)^frac1r$ to find the correct $r$, and then use equation two to find the area under the curve






    share|cite|improve this answer
























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      We can simplify the problem using its symmetry, i.e., only consider the potion of the curve between $(0,1)$ and $(1,0)$.



      Let $f$ be a continuous function defined from $[0,1]to[0,1]$ such that



      1. $$int_0^1 sqrt1+(f'(x))^2textrmdx = frac l4$$

      2. $$int_0^1 f(x) textrm dx = minimum$$

      The first formula is obviously the standard length of a curve formula, and the second the area under the curve (which you will need to multiply by 4).



      Unfortunately, the first formula is not really helpful. So we have to make some more clever observations.



      By another symmetry argument, I argue that $f(x)$ reflected over the line $y=x$ will not change $f(x)$. Why should that be? Well, if the part of the function that reaches the line $y=x$ from $(1,0)$ is optimal, then the same sort of function should be used but reflected from $(0,1)$ to $y=x$.



      The final clever observation to make is the following: the quarter circle is the optimal function to maximize area under the curve of a given length, so flipping that would minimize it.



      While this is not a rigorous proof (Rigorous proofs do exist online), this should give you an intuitive understanding as to why curves of the form $$x^r+y^r=1$$ will be the correct function to minimize area.



      You can now solve equation 1, but with $f(x) = bigg(1-x^rbigg)^frac1r$ to find the correct $r$, and then use equation two to find the area under the curve






      share|cite|improve this answer






















        up vote
        0
        down vote










        up vote
        0
        down vote









        We can simplify the problem using its symmetry, i.e., only consider the potion of the curve between $(0,1)$ and $(1,0)$.



        Let $f$ be a continuous function defined from $[0,1]to[0,1]$ such that



        1. $$int_0^1 sqrt1+(f'(x))^2textrmdx = frac l4$$

        2. $$int_0^1 f(x) textrm dx = minimum$$

        The first formula is obviously the standard length of a curve formula, and the second the area under the curve (which you will need to multiply by 4).



        Unfortunately, the first formula is not really helpful. So we have to make some more clever observations.



        By another symmetry argument, I argue that $f(x)$ reflected over the line $y=x$ will not change $f(x)$. Why should that be? Well, if the part of the function that reaches the line $y=x$ from $(1,0)$ is optimal, then the same sort of function should be used but reflected from $(0,1)$ to $y=x$.



        The final clever observation to make is the following: the quarter circle is the optimal function to maximize area under the curve of a given length, so flipping that would minimize it.



        While this is not a rigorous proof (Rigorous proofs do exist online), this should give you an intuitive understanding as to why curves of the form $$x^r+y^r=1$$ will be the correct function to minimize area.



        You can now solve equation 1, but with $f(x) = bigg(1-x^rbigg)^frac1r$ to find the correct $r$, and then use equation two to find the area under the curve






        share|cite|improve this answer












        We can simplify the problem using its symmetry, i.e., only consider the potion of the curve between $(0,1)$ and $(1,0)$.



        Let $f$ be a continuous function defined from $[0,1]to[0,1]$ such that



        1. $$int_0^1 sqrt1+(f'(x))^2textrmdx = frac l4$$

        2. $$int_0^1 f(x) textrm dx = minimum$$

        The first formula is obviously the standard length of a curve formula, and the second the area under the curve (which you will need to multiply by 4).



        Unfortunately, the first formula is not really helpful. So we have to make some more clever observations.



        By another symmetry argument, I argue that $f(x)$ reflected over the line $y=x$ will not change $f(x)$. Why should that be? Well, if the part of the function that reaches the line $y=x$ from $(1,0)$ is optimal, then the same sort of function should be used but reflected from $(0,1)$ to $y=x$.



        The final clever observation to make is the following: the quarter circle is the optimal function to maximize area under the curve of a given length, so flipping that would minimize it.



        While this is not a rigorous proof (Rigorous proofs do exist online), this should give you an intuitive understanding as to why curves of the form $$x^r+y^r=1$$ will be the correct function to minimize area.



        You can now solve equation 1, but with $f(x) = bigg(1-x^rbigg)^frac1r$ to find the correct $r$, and then use equation two to find the area under the curve







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Aug 26 at 11:18









        Rushabh Mehta

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